The Wellington Hustle Interview Project

Meet productivity and life coach, Michal McCracken from Space & Grace.

Michal’s aim is to help women achieve their personal and professional goals with confidence.

Michal also loves animals and her first business was a dog daycare. Michal’s next business moved her work online, supporting and teaching people to train their own dogs. However, overtime Michal noticed that it wasn’t just the pets who needed help. Their owners also needed support, and so, Michal pivoted into life coaching and Space & Grace was found.

Q1 WHAT WAS YOUR VISION WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED YOUR VENTURE?

Dogs are a big part of my life. I worked in the pet care industry since 2005 as a dog trainer and I ran a dog daycare. But, it burnt me out and I neglected my own well-being. So, I sold the dog daycare business.

Next I worked on bringing the pieces that I loved about my previous business to a new venture, while leaving the stress behind. I settled on an online dog training business. This worked out well, even with Covid becoming widespread.

Through helping women train their dogs, I noticed they actually needed support themselves. That's when I become certified as a coach and started helping dog owners with more than just their pets. Now, I work with people who aren't necessarily dog owners, but that's how I made the transition into coaching. It wasn't easy to evolve, but I believed in myself and made it happen.

Q2 HOW DID YOU DEAL WITH EARLY SETBACKS?

When things don't go well for me, I would talk badly to myself. But I'm trying to stop that now. It isn’t helpful.  These days when something goes wrong, I take a moment to think about it, then figure out how I can learn from this experience to move forward.

I struggle with not being so hard on myself. I often tell myself that I should be doing better and that I'm not good enough. But I'm working on changing that.

In terms of obstacles, I don't usually let things get in my way. I just keep pushing forward until I figure things out.

Coaching is a well-know business category. There’s many successful coaches out there. I know success is possible, I just have to figure it how to do that. When I started my dog daycare business, I didn't have anyone to get advice from, which made things harder. But with my new business, I have more experience and knowledge, so I feel more confident.

Q3 WAS THERE A TIME YOU WANTED TO GIVE UP?

I've never wanted to give up, but I have changed my direction a few times as I've grown and learned. It can be hard, but having a clear idea of who I want to be and what I want to do helps me get through those tough times. For example, if I'm currently working as a dog trainer but want to be a productivity and life coach, I start making decisions like a productivity and life coach.

Since I realise that I wanted to be a productivity coach, I haven't changed my focus. I think many people struggle with being busy, unfocused, not knowing where they want to go. That's where my coaching comes in - helping people with productivity and life strategies, and fixing the negative self-talk in their heads.

Q4 WERE THERE ANY TRAPS THAT YOU FELL INTO?

I have a problem where I often fall for good marketing. If someone convinces me that I need to buy something, I usually do. This happened a lot when I was trying to learn how to start an online dog training business. I bought many courses without really knowing what I was doing. I even tried to get my friends to stop me from buying courses, but I always found a way around them.

When you're building a business and you don't know what you're doing, it's easy to fall for marketing that promises a magic solution. I learned a lot through my experience, and now I'm much more careful about what I buy. I ask myself if I really need it and what I'll get in return.

One of my biggest problems is that I tend to watch videos and read books without actually following through with the steps. I know I should be more disciplined, but it's hard. Right now, I feel like I have enough information and don't need to buy anything else.

Q5 WHAT INSPIRES AND MOTIVATES YOU?

Really making a difference for my clients. Because I know what it's like to be in their shoes. I understand the feeling of moving fast but not knowing where you're headed and having to take on many different roles that you don't enjoy. I wear many hats throughout the day - getting my kids ready for school, transporting them to activities, working as a couch, preparing meals, (it’s my least favourite task. I know I need to change my negative mindset about it. However, I still have to figure out what's for dinner every night.)

I love helping others who are in the same place that I was in a few years ago. I know what I needed back then, which helps me think about what they might need now. It's like being of service to myself. Putting yourself first can be a foreign concept to many people.

Q6 CAN YOU DESCRIBE A BREAKTHROUGH THAT YOU'RE PARTICULARLY PROUD OF?

So, I purchased Stacy Boehman’s life couching course. It took me some time to decide if I wanted it or not, as I didn't want to make an impulsive decision. Once I made the decision, I was excited to start, but there was so much content that I began to feel overwhelmed and stressed. My negative self-talk, which I refer to as my mean girl, started to berate me for not purchasing the course sooner. However, I caught myself and remembered to be kind to myself. I followed the process that I teach others, plotting out the work that needed to be done in my planner. I took my time to go through the content methodically and calmly, and eventually felt proud of myself for the progress I had made. We should all try to be kind to ourselves and stop unnecessary stress.

Q7 WHAT DO YOU SEE AS BEING YOUR BIGGEST LESSON?

One of the biggest lessons I've learned is that I am in control of my results. My thoughts control my feelings, which control my actions, which then control my results. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are. It could be setting up a business during a recession or dealing with the kids at home. I'm still responsible for how I think, feel, and act. And therefore, responsible for my results. This was a huge realisation.

Q8 HAS YOUR VISION ALWAYS BEEN CLEAR AND HOW HAS IT EVOLVED?

At first, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I was working with dogs and I thought, "Could I help dog moms with their lives?" So, I set up a page about it on my dog training website. But when I showed it to people they didn't understand what I was trying to do. So, I decided to split it up. I made one site for dog training and one site for coaching.

Now that I've figured out that I want to focus on coaching, everything is clear. I know who I am and who I can help. But it wasn't easy to get here.

Q9 WHAT WOULD YOU DO DIFFERENTLY IF YOU HAD TO START AGAIN FROM SCRATCH?

If I were to start from scratch, I would hire a coach to help me manage my thoughts and overcome obstacles more effectively. Business coaches are great, but I think having someone who can help me deal with mental challenges would be more valuable.

When you start a new venture, it's easy to fall back into old patterns and behaviours, which can hinder your progress. That's why having a coach who can call you out on your negative thought patterns and help you change your mindset is crucial. I might be biased because I am a coach myself. But I've seen tremendous results in myself and my clients by addressing their mental blocks.

Changing your thoughts can be challenging, and it's a common struggle that many people face. Even if you've tried various methods, like attending Tony Robbins events, it's important to remember that the responsibility for change lies with you. A coach can provide you with tools and support, but ultimately, it's up to you to take action and work through the process. I'm still a work in progress, and I still catch myself falling back into old habits, but with the right mindset, you can achieve your goals.

CONNECT WITH MICHAL

If you have enjoyed this article and want to start a conversation with Michal, you can reach out on:

Website: spaceandgrace.me
Instagram: @space_and_grace_coaching_
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/michal-mccracken
Facebook: facebook.com/space.grace.coaching
Discovery coaching call

Please don’t forget to tell Michal that I sent you.

Find more interviews like this one at the Wellington Hustle Interview Project.

Listen to the interview on your favourite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Stitcher Radio | Spotify | Google

In this interview, I talk with Dan Mikkelsen, the founder of Bicycle Junction

Dan worked as an apprentice chef in Copenhagen during the late ’90s. It was in this city he discovered a love for messenger biking and the cargo bike. 

After returning home and working in the industry as a chef, Dan was faced with a new problem to solve. How to ride his bike and transport his newborn child at the same time. 

Dan reached out to Christiania Bikes, a firm in Denmark, to see if he could buy a bike and have it delivered to Wellington, New Zealand. They said, Yes, you can buy a bike, but, you have to buy four! And so, Bicycle Junction was born.

Bicycle Junction is more than just a shop. It’s a community centred around helping people to ride bikes. Dan has combined his enthusiasm for bikes and his experience as a chef to create a bikery. 

What’s a bikery? I hear you say. Why it’s a place to hang out with like-minded souls, breathe bike, talk bike, eat and be merry.

Q1 WHAT WAS YOUR VISION WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED YOUR VENTURE?

I've always had a passion for carrying things by bike. I lived in Copenhagen from 1998–2002, working as a bike messenger and loved all the cargo bikes. I had an old original 80-year-old cargo bike frame that I restored. I also owned an old Thai rickshaw. Every time I rode it, people wanted to hire me. It ended up being a small side hustle.

When I started the original business 11 years ago, the vision was ‘how can I buy a cargo bike to carry my firstborn child?’ I would carry him in a sling on my fixie, but it became more uncomfortable as he grew.

I called up the only company I knew in Denmark, Christiania Bikes and asked if they could deliver a cargo bike to New Zealand. They said yes, but, you have to buy four due to the way the bikes were packed for shipping. So, I had to sell three bikes and ended up selling four. That meant I had to order two pallets, leaving me with three more bikes to sell. I set up a website and started selling cargo bikes online. 

More people bought the bikes, I ordered more and storage become an issue. As things grew, I rented a garage, then while looking for a small warehouse I found a retail space in Newtown. Three weeks later I had a bike shop!

The vision for the shop is wanting to help more people be engaged in riding bikes. My realisation here was if I wanted to help more people ride bikes, I shouldn’t appeal to those who already ride bikes.

I had always admired businesses that did more than one thing. But all parts need to be integrated and executed well. The idea of a café and bike shop has always appealed to me. I previously worked in the hospitality industry as a chef. And I had been talking about it with my bike shop friends for some time. When the opportunity to take on the retail space came up I thought I had better also sell coffee as I’ve been talking about it for so long. The location was great, right next to Wellington Hospital.

The move wasn’t entirely impulsive. As my vision was to help more people ride bikes. The coffee provided a reason for people to come into the store and be comfortable without feeling that they need to buy a bike. It’s a nice Segway into a conversation about bikes. Not that I was trying to convert every customer into a cyclist. But as they become regulars it builds community.

People can be daunted by sportbike shops. They are full of lycra, fancy glasses and the salesperson speaks a lot of technical jargon. It's not a welcoming space. So we sell bikes to people who don't currently ride or who wouldn’t think of themselves as a cyclist. We talk about cyclists and cycling. Cycling is a sport. A cyclist partakes in the sport of cycling. But, if you ride a bike for transport, you’re just a person who rides a bike to get from A to B. It doesn’t identify you, it's just what you do.

The shop is all about creating a welcoming and comfortable space. A place where people want to linger. I think back to living in Copenhagen. Every morning people head to the bakery. The baker knows them by name and neighbours chat while queueing. That’s the feeling I look to foster with Bicycle Junction. We know our customers by name and our customers know each other. Bicycle Junction has a little community surrounding it.

Q2 HOW DID YOU DEAL WITH EARLY SETBACKS?

I started the business with my last paycheque. 

Everything was new to me. Although I knew a lot about bikes, I had never worked in retail or a bike shop before. There were loads that I needed to learn. When there’s a lot of financial backing available, there’s plenty of room to make big mistakes. And I made some mistakes at the start. But they were quite measured by the nature of not having much money. 

As you grow, you learn. If you learn on a small scale for what those mistakes are, when you graduate to a bigger scale, you’re less likely to fall into those traps. I’d say I’ve been quite lucky, as there was plenty of opportunities to make big mistakes if I had more financial backing. An open slate can make it hard to be creative without the constraints to problem solve.

Q3 WAS THERE A TIME YOU WANTED TO GIVE UP?

Absolutely. There’s been plenty of tough times. When I started the store in Newtown, on that first day, I only had three bikes on the floor. Two of which were my own! The constant growing pains of cash flow has been quite stressful at times. 

Particularly after moving the shop into Wellington’s city centre. We were always modest during the Newtown days. Growing well, but keeping it in check. Moving into town was a big leap for us. Especially with a costly shop refit. 

Moving a business is similar to starting all over again. We did keep a lot of our Newtown regulars. There were times that I questioned the move.

But, in those dark times, I realise there's only one way out. And that’s forward. There’s a phrase my head chef used when I was an apprentice, “Full speed over thin ice”. You don’t look down, you just know what needs to be done and keep moving. Cheffing prepared me for pressure, stress and long hours. 

At home we laugh about buying our first house, having three kids and starting two businesses all at the same time! Sometimes I wonder, “What were we thinking!” Luckily we’re both passionate about our work. 

Sometimes I briefly think about giving up. But, it only takes seeing a family out on one of our bikes to remind me of why I started Bicycle Junction in the first place.

Q4 WERE THERE ANY TRAPS THAT YOU FELL INTO?

I’m wary that manufacturers are eager for their distributers to buy many bikes, making it easy to over-commit. And bike shops need stock on the floor. As a relatively low margin retail business, I try not to overextend my cash flow. Electric bikes in particular are high cost and low margin.

One trap I haven’t fallen into is playing the price game. There’s no way Bicycle Junction can compete on price alone against nationwide stores. So we don’t. 

We have a different style of service. Providing a higher quality of service as a point of difference. We’ve built up a good base of loyal customers. We’re not the cheapest and that's okay. What you pay at our store ensures the bike that you buy is going to last, servicing will be carried out correctly, fair wages for our staff. You’re also supporting events for Wellington’s greater cycling community.

Q5 WHAT INSPIRES AND MOTIVATES YOU?

Seeing families on their bikes. I feel enormous pride that Bicycle Junction has played a part in growing cargo biking in New Zealand. They are particularly popular in Wellington.

I feel that they are such a good thing for children and families. Of course, there’s the should reasons, such as good for the environment. But generally, cargo bikes are great for having a good time. 

My family went without a car completely for a while. We do have a vehicle now, but the kids all much prefer taking the bike. I hear that it’s the same for every cargo bike family. That to me means our kids are growing up favouring a different form of transport and realising that car ownership is just one option.

Our customers tell us that electric bikes, in general, become the easiest way to get around. Even in the rain, people will jump on their electric bike instead of taking the car. That’s because it’s still easier than finding a car park.

Q6 CAN YOU DESCRIBE A BREAKTHROUGH THAT YOU'RE PARTICULARLY PROUD OF?

People in Wellington now know what a cargo bike is. Children can now point them out to their parents. 

The first few days after getting our new bike, a photo was taken of us, with our kids in the front, and posted to a website called weird in Wellington. There were comments made such as, “is it a wheelbarrow?”, “Did you make it from a shopping trolly?”. People just really had no idea what it was.

It’s gratifying that there’s public knowledge about them now. That's a particularly important breakthrough. It means they have entered the mainstream consciousness. And cargo bikes are not just a novelty for an eccentric family. They’re not just for mad cyclists and eco-warriors. Cargo bikes are a real and attractive transport option for the regular family.

Q7 WHAT DO YOU SEE AS BEING YOUR BIGGEST LESSON?

Running Bicycle Junction is different from being a chef. I was always working to immovable deadlines. In a restaurant, you can’t go out to a table and say “Sorry your dinner is going to be a few more hours and it will cost an extra $50.” That’s how tradesmen work 😉. You just need to learn how to make those immovable deadlines work. And when you get to the deadline, you’re done. You savour the moment, feel the afterglow and prepare to start all over again.

Working on Bicycle Junction, there is never an end. Yes, there can be some projects that start and finish. But generally, I’m not accustomed to the constant nature of being a business owner. I’ve found the lack of completion, relax and back to work cycle quite difficult. And having three kids at home means you can’t finish work and zone out. There’s always something to do.

I’ve just had to acknowledge that I can't work eighteen hours a day for nine years straight. 

Fortunately, the business is at a point where I've eased up on my hours. Two years ago I would work seven days a week. Now I'm working five. Life is more enjoyable, I’ve built up the business and its crew. 

I still love project work, those immovable deadlines and the feeling of completing something in full. But, I’m also still learning how to manage my energy levels. I'm quite impulsive/compulsive. If I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it entirely. Mediocrity irks me. Especially doing a task that's just good enough. ‘Done is better than perfect' still is difficult for me.

Q8 HAS YOUR VISION ALWAYS BEEN CLEAR AND HOW HAS IT EVOLVED?

Bicycle Junction is essentially the same business. We still use the same mission statement that boils down to ‘helping more people enjoy riding bikes’. 

I was aware that moving locations could change our vibe. Although we refreshed the look and feel, we did retain our welcoming feeling and community.

We still focus on cargo bikes. These are mainly electric now, reinforcing the idea of transport cycling. We have more staff, sell and repair more bikes, and we still have the cafe. It hasn’t changed a lot and I’m happy about that. It shows us that from the start our idea was right and needed. We're not trying to expand, but rather focus on doing what we do well.

Q9 WHAT WOULD YOU DO DIFFERENTLY IF YOU HAD TO START AGAIN FROM SCRATCH?

I started Bicycle Junction coming from fifteen years of working seventy hour weeks as a chef, working on big projects around the country. I was exhausted. Then I become a new father and started my first business. At times I’ve struggled with my energy. I really should have taken a year off. Now I would make sure I was well-rested.

Now that my children are older, I get a lot more sleep. That’s made a huge difference to my energy levels.

CONNECT WITH Dan

If you have enjoyed this article and want to start a conversation with Dan, you can reach out on:

Website: bicyclejunction.co.nz
Instagram: @bicyclejunctionnz
Youtube: Bicycle Junction
Facebook: @bicyclejunction

Please don’t forget to tell Dan that I sent you.

Find more interviews like this one at the Wellington Hustle Interview Project.

Listen to the interview on your favourite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Stitcher Radio | Spotify | Google

Find more interviews like this one at the Wellington Hustle Interview Project.

Listen to the interview on your favourite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Stitcher Radio | Spotify | Google

Find more interviews like this one at the Wellington Hustle Interview Project.

Listen to the interview on your favourite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Stitcher Radio | Spotify | Google

This month I’m joined by Jennifer Young.

Jen describes herself as a recovered-admitted-lawyer-turned-Workplace-Wellbeing-Specialist, Life & Resilience Coach, Facilitator, Mental Health Advocate, Youth Leadership Development Advisor and Writer.

After university, Jennifer moved to Wellington and took up a role in Leadership Development.

During this time, she struggled with the transition from study to work. This was compounded by the fact that her initial workplace had a bullying environment. Over time Jen vowed that she never wanted another person to have this same experience and Intentional Generations was created.

 Now, let’s listen to this interview with Jennifer Young…

Q1 WHAT WAS YOUR VISION WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED YOUR VENTURE?

To be a judge and make decisions to help the lives of others. Although, that would be many decades in the future.

At the start of my career, I found myself in such a toxic work environment. I developed anxiety and depression. I had to quickly learn to manage my mental wellbeing. Specifically prioritising my mental health.

The idea for JenY Insites (now Intentional Generations), was influenced by my first working experience. The reality was so different from what I had imagined work-life to be. I was shocked. I never wanted another person to experience that kind of treatment. This influenced my passion to make changes in organisations. Helping others develop the confidence to bring about the understanding of wellbeing and mental health. 

I value variety and freedom. Being able to help a range of organisations from corporates, government to schools is important to me. Impacting people, helping them develop skills to navigate life's challenges.

I unintentionally started in 2017 with my blog, JenY Insights. I shared tools, resources and what I’d learnt over the years working in Leadership Development. The vision was to take the training for senior leaders and make it accessible to those less privileged. I also shared my own experience as I trained myself. 

After moving from consulting to a corporate learning and development role, I noticed my anxiety starting to return. Part of it may have been the environment, but I had a voice inside telling me to get out. I couldn't ignore it anymore. I had to take my own advice and access my greatest growth by stepping out of my comfort zone.

To form a new habit you need to do something for at least forty days before it becomes automatic. So, I challenged myself to a ’Forty days of Facing Fear’ practice. I was scared of rejection, failing and even succeeding. So I did one thing that scared me every day for forty days. It forced me out of my comfort zone, growing my confidence exponentially. Next, I travelled to Italy and taught English for three months. On returning, I knew that I wanted to help people every day for the rest of my life.
Everybody gets a sense of looking up to people who seem to be doing great things. Think of an amazing person riding a lion. Those watching are in awe. That person seems so crazy and adventurous. The reality is that person is thinking “Holy shit, how do I get off, I’m going to be eaten alive!!!”
That's very much what it is like to be an entrepreneur. I can't take credit for that metaphor. It came from a mentor, Toby Thomas.

Q2 HOW DID YOU DEAL WITH EARLY SETBACKS?

I have a lovely network of friends, called Founders Supporting Founders. We discuss life beyond social media. setbacks and challenges. I committed to being really honest about my challenges publicly. 

For the first year and a half, I earned very little. I was giving a lot of my time away fro free. I didn't know how to charge. I had no experience in running a business. I was wearing twenty different hats. CMO, COO, CEO, sales, networking and delivery.

I would get offers to speak at many events, but most would expect me to present for free. Just because I was new. That was an exhausting setback. Nine months in, I was burning the candle at both ends while reminding myself to take care of my wellbeing. It was difficult. People don’t talk about how hard starting a business can be. Especially when you don’t have the luxury to hire help.

Working out my worth, another comfort zone challenge for me. Up until this point nobody had openly talked with me about how to charge for my service. I started by talking to people more experienced in their coaching / public speaking journey. It taught me what was or wasn’t normal to charge. The best bit of advice I received was to charge for your worth. Even if it’s uncomfortable. It’s not just the hour I spend with a client. It’s the preparation beforehand and don’t forget all that training and previous experience. I also learnt, that in a corporate market, if I didn’t charge enough, I wouldn’t be taken seriously and I’d lose the contract.

I have to be assertive and clear on my worth. Time and energy are incredibly precious resources. There are only so many hours in a day. I can't be everywhere providing my service for free. I’ve learnt to be a lot more discerning.Q3 WAS THERE A TIME YOU WANTED TO GIVE UP?

Yes! Two or three times over the last three years. Giving up, or at least taking a break. Finding a job, having a steady paycheque with training, holiday and sick pay.

In reality, I may have had challenging days, but on reflection, it's very clear that I don't want to work in a full-time office environment.

In those challenging times, I’ve learnt to ask my network for help. It’s surprised me how generous my community is when I share with vulnerability and openness. So grateful for those in my network. Many have become amazing friends. 

I’ve learned to step back, reassess the situation, then make decisions that align with my values.

COVID has been challenging for my business sense. Many people said that they wanted my services, but didn't have the budget. During the New Zealand initial lockdown, I gave away my services at reduced rates or for free. Not sustainable from a business perspective. Thankfully the last two months have massive. I'm booked out until January 2021.

COVID tested my confidence and commitment. Even though I'm supporting hundreds of people, I still need support as well. Luckily, Wellington is the most incredible community. 

Particularly over the last year, I learnt that even though I work within wellbeing, understanding all the resources available, I can still struggle. I’ve doubled down on being more compassionate to myself. Just because I work in wellbeing, doesn’t mean I have to be perfect.

Q4 WERE THERE ANY TRAPS THAT YOU FELL INTO?

I’ve never shared this before. One trap I’ve learnt to navigate learning to see people’s intentions for meeting with me. Some were professional, others would be asking for my WhatsApp number or to take me out for coffee!

Being a young female, using social media to authentically share my journey publicly, I have to be careful who I agree to meet. I’ve unfortunately had a few meetings with potential clients where I ended up with a dating proposition instead. The way I dress or how friendly I appear could potentially send the wrong message. I’m strict about only meeting new people in a public setting. Sadly, this is still a thing.

Possibly it's because of my caring nature. Maybe it’s from my counselling training and listening skills. Some people may not have experienced this kind of attention. 

Q5 WHAT INSPIRES AND MOTIVATES YOU?

This podcast gives a great insight into creating a new venture. It’s not all lollipops and rainbows.

Being aware of just how privileged I am. My older brother, Alex, passed away from cancer when I was eight years old. He was my best friend. This keeps me grounded. I often give back to communities that support disable kids or those struggling with cancer.

My mum. She’s one of the most resilient people that I know. She’s lost a child and last year she beat cancer. That was really hard to go through as a family. 

Past experiences. The ones I would hate others to experience. They inspire me to do my work. Training people to be more resilient and navigate life’s challenges.

Q6 CAN YOU DESCRIBE A BREAKTHROUGH THAT YOU'RE PARTICULARLY PROUD OF?

Completing my forty days of fear challenge. Working out what I wanted from life and taking a stand for it.

During the first year, I treated my work as an experiment. The idea of running a business terrified me. I was only 25! Getting that affirmation that my ‘project’ was working was a huge breakthrough, boosting my confidence. Knowing that one insight I share may not just change someone's mind, but in fact, change their life.

One lady came up to me after an event and said, “I’ve been to most of your events over the last year. There was one event I didn’t feel like attending. I was feeling suicidal, but I went. You shared how you’re guided by getting up, dressing up and showing up every single day. No matter what. No matter how small. Even if it's just getting up, having a shower and going for a walk to the letterbox and back. You stopped me from taking my life that day.” Now that was an ‘oh shit’ breakthrough. Realising what I do is way bigger than me just saying some inspirational stuff. When I started being vulnerable about my struggles with mental health, everything shifted. It removed the perception that I was perfect and helped people relate.

Q7 WHAT DO YOU SEE AS BEING YOUR BIGGEST LESSON?

Discovering my vision and what I wanted to do with life. I would rather spend sixty hours per week building my dream than somebody else’s who’s values done align with mine.

During my first career consulting, I was chatting with a senior leader who told me, “Don’t waste your life, figure out what cause and impact that sets your heart alight. You don’t want to get to my age and find that you’re in a job you hate. I’m overweight, my wife is divorcing me, my kids can’t stand me, I have a huge mortgage and I’m totally stuck.” He looked close to tears. That image is still with me. 

Spending time reflecting, practising mindfulness, yoga, dance, whatever helps you get to know yourself is one of the best time investments you’ll ever make.   

Q8 HAS YOUR VISION AWAYS BEEN CLEAR AND HOW HAS IT EVOLVED?

There's pressure to figure out what it is we want from life and to stick with it. But, life isn't linear.

Research says we're going to have at least three careers in a lifetime. But sometimes we have to adapt. 

My vision hasn't always been clear. Even now, I’m really busy with a huge variety of clients. I know in the new year I'll be taking time to reflect on my vision.

My vision in January 2020 was very clear. I wanted to be performance dancing (no), run a retreat in Bali (no), write a book (no), run a six-figure business (not quite, thanks COVID I’ll get there).

The reality is that nothing is set in stone. My vision of positively impacting a culture change to be more inclusive, intentional and adaptive is still there. However that happens, I’ll have to figure it out.

Q9 WHAT WOULD YOU DO DIFFERENTLY IF YOU HAD TO START AGAIN FROM SCRATCH?

I would probably have worked part-time to keep things less financially stressful. Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Instead, I dived straight in after travelling. I was so stubborn and determined not to go back into the corporate world. That financial stress wasn’t fun. 

I started working out of the BizDojo from the beginning. I’m so grateful for my time with that community. It taught me so much about building a business, connecting with others and I gained confidence in my skills as a baby coach and speaker. 

I would engage a coach or mentor earlier for professional advice also.

CONNECT WITH JENNIFER

If you have enjoyed this article and want to start a conversation with Jen, you can reach out on:

Websites: Intentional Generations
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jenniferjyoung/
Instagram: @jenyinsights

Please don’t forget to tell Jennifer that I sent you.

Interview and photography by Wellington Headshot Photographer, Tim Morrison (all rights reserved)

Find more interviews like this one at the Wellington Hustle Interview Project.

Listen to the interview on your favourite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Stitcher Radio | Spotify | Google

Meet James Bennie...

CONNECT WITH JAMES

If you have enjoyed this article and want to start a conversation with James, you can reach out on:

Websites: WellingtonNZ
Facebook: RAW Mentor
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/james-bennie-79850831/
Instagram: @raw_mentor

Please don’t forget to tell James that I sent you.

Interview and photography by Wellington Headshot Photographer, Tim Morrison (all rights reserved)

Find more interviews like this one at the Wellington Hustle Interview Project.

Listen to the interview on your favourite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Stitcher Radio | Spotify | Google

Meet Melissa Gollan...

Mel is the sole founder of the world disrupting FinTech Startup, RIP Global. 

During her past career in sales, Mel learned to loathe expenses. Keeping track, sorting, submitting and looking for missing receipts turned into the pain point that made her think, ‘there must be a better way?’ RIP Global is a contactless payment and expensing system, boasting 100% compliance while enabling customers to never handle receipts again.

Mel has successfully raised several rounds of funding from investors in New Zealand and the United States. She has big goals to take RIP Global world wide. Her US venture capital investors are certainly a great indication of RIP Global’s potential and Mel’s largest customer to date just happens to be the New Zealand Government.

Q1 WHAT WAS YOUR VISION WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED YOUR VENTURE?

My vision was to save people from the boring tasks of processing and tracking receipts. RIP Global is about connecting the payment with the purchase data in a way that has the customer doing absolutely nothing. This is how I want to do it.

Every expensing solution in the world has a 50% fail rate. Relying on users to photograph and upload receipts. Nobody wants to do that, so don’t. That’s what we’re saying.  

Those who use accounting systems such as Xero, MYOB etc, we can import their different account/expense codes automatically.

Some people don't want to code or comment on their expenses, and they don't have to. But we do offer the opportunity to pre-code and justify each of their purchases.

A smartphone app is used for a client to log expenses and add instructions or comments about their purchase. Then a dynamically created QR code is displayed and then scanned at the til. It's a little like using a loyalty card. Once scanned and payment has been made the client can just walk away. Their expense report is pre-populated with all the receipt data, the code and the justification. 

So we're offering 100% compliance and clients never have to touch a receipt again.

It saves phone calls between people and their accounts office. No more missing receipts at the end of the month.

This is very useful for those people passing on expenses to their clients or contractors. Disbursement invoices for these expenses can be created and sent automatically. This can save a lot of time. Plus, with 100% transparency, this makes their clients feel good.

I’ve been working on RIP Global for nine years now. From the idea phase, being up to my eyebrows in receipts, developing the process, protecting our intellectual property. We’re committed to building a massive financial technology company out of New Zealand.

Patents and IP are critical to us. We have a great relationship with Jameson Wells, a boutique intellectual property law firm. They are especially good at protecting property. You can’t get software patents. But the process behind the software can be patented. The process behind RIP Global has been patented in the US. This has been critical for raising capital.

In the beginning, I had a Sales and Marketing consultancy while developing RIP Global. With that and some contracting work for Plunket,  I didn't draw a salary from the business for the first five years. Then, after moving to Wellington, I started to pay myself enough of a salary to support myself and my two young boys. 

Q2 HOW DID YOU DEAL WITH EARLY SETBACKS?

When you do anything new, you're going to get setbacks. So don't sweat it, there's always a workaround. 

In the beginning, I was a little naive. I took what I thought was obviously a banking tool to a couple of the banks and got the runaround. I’m still waiting for a Head of Innovation from one bank to call me back from four and a half years ago.

Banks have long deal cycles. When you're a startup, you have limited time, money and resources. You can't be flying around to have 50,000 coffee meetings. You need results and signed commitments. 

We were supposed to pilot our technology with a bank. But, the deal ended up being blocked. This had me wonder how I going to continue without a big client. I knew that we were building something huge. I just had to carry on, one step at a time.

Ultimately your customers are who matter. If you built a great product, present it well, you’ll get the customers. All those other people become irrelevant. 

We are building a globally scalable technology company and we want big customers. The reality is that New Zealand is a tiny little country. We have small businesses compared to the US, UK or Asian markets. The New Zealand government, as a business, would be our biggest, most internationally respected and the best local customer for RIP Global. An obvious choice that would see us scale fast globally.

Everybody told me I was crazy. So I ran a second sales strategy, targeting Small Medium Enterprises also.

We've built the best product in the world. Nothing beats us in terms of efficiency and fraud elimination. As passionate New Zealander, I want our government to be using the best tools. 

Our development team is based in New Zealand. All of our profits benefit New Zealand. We do have a couple of global shareholders, but we are a 75% Māori owned business. 

What we're doing is groundbreaking. The broader benefits to New Zealand long-term are going to be enormous. The government has a responsibility to be considering us during their procurement activities. 

The complexity of exports from New Zealand is on par with third world countries. We've really got to pull our finger out on that. Technology is complex and high value. It has high-value employees paying tax and spending in our community. It's time for the rubber to hit the road. 

Raising money as a New Zealand based technology company is hard work. The best place to start is with the people that love you. Friends, family, those who understand the problem being solved. As we've got traction and grown, we've been able to approach bigger investors. Recently we just received a follow on investment. We raised $5 million ($3 million pre-revenue), out of the United States. 

That's really important for us. With the level of support we receive from Callaghan Innovation and New Zealand Trade and Enterprise our American investors are seeing that our government and agencies are right behind us. It shows that New Zealand is a good place to invest. We build technology at a third of the cost compared to the US. so not only are we doing something in terms of yet, we're building great tech that we're going to export, but we're also facilitating and bringing the attention of American investment into, and to New Zealand technology.

The New Zealand tech scene, we're very kiwish, apologetic when talking about money and don't want to overvalue something. But the reality is you want to raise your money to the highest valuation you can. You do have to justify it to retain equity in the business as a founder. But if you don’t put a global valuation on it, you won't be taken seriously. There's a lot of misinformation guiding young New Zealand tech startups suggesting to value yourself at $1 or $2 million. Why should you? If your addressable market is massive and your product is globally scalable, then raise money at valuations similar to the United States. Do your homework, own it and have the confidence to demand that valuation level.

There's a science and art to figuring out your valuation level. 

We have an expensing app, so we looked at all of the other expensing apps around the world. How much did they raise? What’re their valuations? What's their market share? Then you take stock of your intellectual property. This increases the value of your company. How much market do you think you’ll capture? What’s your revenue projections and then do a multiple of that. Then there's finding the right investors. The ones who believe in and will back you.  

I'm the sole founder. 72% of female founders globally get venture capitalists investment. They oftentimes return a 75% better result than the boys. My goal is to inspire other women founders to be aggressive, go out there and really own this space.

Q3 WAS THERE A TIME YOU WANTED TO GIVE UP?

Honestly, I’ve never wanted to give up.

One of my advisors once shared, the thing keeping him awake night was worrying about having to get ‘a real job’. As a founder, you don’t always sleep very well. You do every job and you’re responsible for all the people working for you. There’s a huge amount of pressure. But I can’t imagine doing anything else. I’m purpose-built for this business.

Q4 WERE THERE ANY TRAPS THAT YOU FELL INTO?

No, I’m old, so that helps. But I would say there's a lot of traps. 

Taking advice. Everyone has an opinion. But, nobody knows your business better than you. Don't forget that. Do what you think is right and back yourself to avoid traps such as under evaluations or people looking to take advantage for themselves.

Q5 WHAT INSPIRES AND MOTIVATES YOU?

This product, RIP Global, and not wanting to touch another receipt again.

I’m super passionate about growing New Zealand’s technology space, role modelling for young women and encouraging Māori engagement in technology as a career choice. 

I won the MWDI Māori Business Woman Award for Innovation in 2019. I'm really proud that I'm of Māori descent. I come from a family where my mother left school at 13. She didn't own her first pair of shoes until she was 10. I have a framed photo of five generations of women from my family. All these women have working hands. I’m the first generation of women who doesn’t. That’s super motivating. I'm here to shift the needle.

I’m particularly interested in young women in technology. When I looked to hire my developers, I found lots of boys, but no women. I’ve decided to actively promote technology. I’m running a career conference for young women between the ages of 12 and 18 at Scott's College this December (2020). There will be Māori women working in technology from all over New Zealand speaking. I want to show off and demystify the roles in technology. So that's exciting

Q6 CAN YOU DESCRIBE A BREAKTHROUGH THAT YOU'RE PARTICULARLY PROUD OF?

Winning our first government contract was huge! It really elevated the company. It took a long time. Socialising the idea, validating the company, working through due diligence and getting approval. 

Securing investment out of the US was another huge breakthrough. I attended the Select USA Summit with New Zealand’s US ambassador,  Scott Brown last year. I’m committed our product being in the US because it's such a massive market.

At the summit, I was introduced to some local investors. I visited their office once and came away with a cheque. They also follow on invested because of our progress. Typically founders make huge promises to raise money and don't deliver. So, to get an existing investor to give us more money means we’re doing something right

Q7 WHAT DO YOU SEE AS BEING YOUR BIGGEST LESSON?

I've learned a lot of lessons and made many mistakes along the way. 

My biggest lesson, learning about the technology behind RIP Global. In the beginning, I didn't want to know or care about my product’s technology stack. I do now. I need to know what's scalable and what isn't. This led to a few mistakes with my early hires, wasting money. 

Everything takes five times longer than you think. Running out of money is the most critical mistake a founder can make. I’m constantly raising money. I operate with a lot of confidence and don't raise too much money before its needed. Many founders will raise five years of runway, then manage it poorly.

I haven't had problems raising money. I want big upswings of value for my shareholders. I’ll wait until a milestone is achieved, increasing the value of the business before raising more.

Mental health issues around founders over consuming of drugs and alcohol can be a crutch. So look after yourself because it’s a marathon, not a sprint. You are what your investors are investing in. The founder, not the company or technology. 

I'm a bit of an athlete, getting up at 5 am to workout. Physical activity is so important. It gives me clarity and time to think. 

Trying to sleep is the biggest challenge. I always have great ideas at 3 am and I've been known to bake in the middle of the night. My kids are always stoked with Afghan biscuits for breakfast.

Q8 HAS YOUR VISION AWAYS BEEN CLEAR AND HOW HAS IT EVOLVED?

Yes! 

It's become larger and more exciting. But, I've always known what I wanted to achieve. RIP Global as been a global proposition right from the start. What I'm doing is difficult. Mentally, physically and emotionally.

I have to give it 100%. There's no point playing small.

Q9 WHAT WOULD YOU DO DIFFERENTLY IF YOU HAD TO START AGAIN FROM SCRATCH?

I don't think I would. I’d higher the same Chief Technology Officer, Jesse Whitham. He's great. 

RIP Global is a very whanau orientated and I cook brunch for the team weekly. 

There's 12 of us now. I’m in the process of hiring. We'll be three times the size by the middle of next year and we’ll international offices also. I’ve had some really exciting interviews. Due to COVID, loads of talented New Zealands are coming home from overseas. That’s amazing. 

As a company, we’re very clear. We're hunters, not farmers. This company does two things, build technology and sell subscriptions. Everyone’s on the sales team, including the developers. That's the focus of the business.

CONNECT WITH MEL

If you have enjoyed this article and want to start a conversation with Mel, you can reach out on:

Website: ripglobal.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/melissa-gollan-a21b2041/

Please don’t forget to tell Mel that I sent you.

Interview and photography by Wellington Headshot Photographer, Tim Morrison (all rights reserved)

Find more interviews like this one at the Wellington Hustle Interview Project.

Listen to the interview on your favourite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Stitcher Radio | Spotify | Google

Meet Lotty Roberts...

Through her business, ‘Mind U’, Lotty helps both companies and individuals use mindfulness to navigate change.

She also hosts The Vulnerability Effect podcast. Interviewing people, sharing their stories of vulnerability with the purpose of showing how vulnerability can be a point of strength and connection.

Lotty is originally from Suffolk in the UK, but after 16 years, now calls Wellington home. Her past career focused on implementing transformation and leadership in the corporate world.

In 2018 Lotty endured a spell of burn out, took some time off to think and ‘Mind U’ was created.

Oh, yes, Lotty has also worked her way through the challenge of recovering from a double hip replacement.

Q1 WHAT WAS YOUR VISION WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED YOUR VENTURE?

My business is called MiND U. I left my previous job, taking time to think about what I wanted to do next. I knew it would be connected to mindfulness as I was training as a mindfulness-based stress reduction teacher. In my past career I was really passionate about change and facilitation. I loved being a catalyst for positive change and transformation in others. But I didn't know what that would look like. I certainly hadn't thought I would start my own business. I did what was very unusual for Lotty. I just slowed down and did nothing to see what would pop up. I was in Bali at the time, and decided to start my own company. I updated my LinkedIn profile and straight away somebody approached me to talk at an event with their senior leaders. I agreed and they said, “it's in nine days time”. That’s how I started.

I’ve learnt a lot about leadership and change. I have also made a lot of mistakes. This has shown me how I can be of service to people independently, rather than working as part of an organisation. Normally I'm a real planner. A lot of my career was focused on vision, being intentional and putting it into words and goals. Instead, I did something that was quite counterintuitive. I decided to just dabble for a while. I was fortunate enough that we could survive on my husband's salary. So, I had the freedom to discover what I wanted to do with my business. I knew I wanted to help people navigate change. What evolved is how I help people with their self-reflection and mindfulness. Guiding them to be more present in their life.

I like to say, “Mindfulness and change go together like cheese and crackers”. Change done well is Mindfulness in action. This stood out to me as being a little different, but really useful to help people and organisations land change better.

Everything I do has different aspects. I do a lot of work around emotional culture, independent mindfulness work, coaching, change and mindful leadership courses. Although these seem quite different, they all achieve the same thing. To help people navigate change. Change is the one thing you can't stop, it happens all the time.

A beautiful quote I love by Jon Kabat-Zinn, “You can't stop the waves, but you can learn how to surf”. I like to think that I'm helping others learn to surf those waves of change. Sometimes they might be doing crazy, awesome flips. Sometimes surfing those waves of change is just literally clinging to the board. It's not about everything being fluffy. How can you stay on the board through the bad? It doesn't need to be pretty. It's just about survival. So, whether it’s helping people to perform their best or navigating adversity, that's my purpose and how I’m of service.

Q2 HOW DID YOU DEAL WITH EARLY SETBACKS?

I've been really, really fortunate, I don't think I've had any major setbacks, but perhaps it’s a matter of perception. Starting your own business is a journey of discovery. What I've learned is it’s normal to feel a bit bipolar. Some days are awesome; clients book in, you meet some amazing, inspiring people or you create something from scratch and feel so proud. There's nothing like those days, they are amazing. And then you have days where you feel like no-one is interested, you feel a sense of lack, feeling not feeling good enough (that old Chestnut!) and that it is all so tiring. All you see is other people doing really well and you don’t feel you are doing as well as them.

What has been really useful for me is being really aware of what’s going on as it arises. I notice, “There’s that self doubt again” or “Oh, there's that judgment”. Whether it be judgment of myself or judgment of other people. I've learned I'm somebody who's always had quite high expectations for myself and others and expectations are disappointments waiting to happen. So when I really started to become aware that when there are setbacks, it's not going to last. I notice the thoughts are coming up from that setback. I try to be with them and ride it out. I’ve done a lot of work on myself to not beat myself up.

I got to a point where I was burned out in my career because I was too much of a try-hard, always trying to be perfect, driven by the ego. That was when I started my business. I have had setbacks like a double hip replacement and divorces but they all ended up being points of growth for me. This is why I'm really passionate about the subject of vulnerability, being with the emotions and thoughts and seeing what you can learn. So the other thing that I do on the side (I’ve got lots of side hustles for the Wellington hustlers!), is run a little podcast called the Vulnerability Effect. It has been running for about 18 months now. I interview people around their stories of vulnerability and what they think about it, with the purpose of seeing vulnerability as a point of strength and connection. When we don't face our vulnerability, it can really compromise our mental health.

A few years ago I would have in no way liked to be seen as vulnerable. I was asked to speak at a mindful leaders conference and to share my story. I realised I can't stand up on that stage and talk about my journey without sharing the mistakes I've made. Until then I'd always wanted to show up as shiny and awesome. I knew I had to be real, honest and true to myself. I had been in leadership a long time, but I don't think I was always a great leader. I pushed other people as hard as I pushed myself and I broke, so I could've have nearly broken them. I possibly wasn't the best listener. I wasn't sometimes the most present. I shared all these things on that stage. I felt physically sick when I walked off. I thought people were going to think I'm so naff now, but the opposite happened. People thanked me for my authenticity… “Thank you for being honest, because what you were saying is what we feel inside, but we're too scared to say”. That experience and Brené Brown work inspired me to do a little event, which was called the “Vulnerability Project”. We got some people to share their stories of vulnerably. It was a sellout, people loved it and they wanted more, which is why I ended up doing the podcast.

Q3 WAS THERE A TIME YOU WANTED TO GIVE UP?

I've had some real low points. Nine and a half years ago I had chronic pain from an autoimmune condition, psoriatic arthritis. I was injured, my pelvis was inflamed and arthritic, it felt at time like my body was rotting. I was told I wouldn't be able to run and they had no idea how long for. I had two children and my second child was only five months old. I was completely burned out and I started suffering from postnatal anxiety and depression. Until then what had served me up to then was always being busy, I could never sit still. I saw a counsellor who asked me to consider mindfulness. I asked, “what's that?”. She described it to me but I didn’t get it. I went home and researched the word mindfulness. I thought it was really weird. I'm still wasn’t getting what this mindfulness thing was, being present, accepting what is without judgment and all that.

I happened to be sitting in a waiting room for an appointment and saw a flyer on a wall advertising an eight-week mindfulness course. I signed up immediately, being a good student as I am. What really got me to that point was, I was driving in the car, feeling totally burned out, physically exhausted, in pain - such mental anguish. I had always seen myself as a very resilient, strong person, but all of my go-to’s weren’t working. I was searching for something that would make me feel better. I didn't want to take antidepressants. I've got nothing against them, but I just didn't want to do that. I had to stop the car in a lay-by and I cried. I had two children in the back. My three year old was asking me what was wrong. I didn’t know what to do. I felt like I'd been sucker-punched with a bowling ball in my stomach. I knew the way I was living and my life wasn’t working. I needed to do something different. That would have been my lowest point. Not my double hip replacement because of the mindfulness practice which has helped me. Through mindfulness and a lot of work on my general health, I’m in a good space now.

I've had little wobbles in my career where I wonder if I’m doing the right thing, when it seems like so much effort. What I've realised, it's just your mind, your thoughts and your feelings. Sometimes you're going to have funky days and they pass because. Nothing ever feels as low as it probably would have done in the past with mindfulness.

Q4 WERE THERE ANY TRAPS THAT YOU FELL INTO?

The trap I have to be really aware of is comparison. I have a saying, “Comparisons is the thief of joy”. It's not my saying I stole it from someone else. Every time you compare yourself to other people and what they're doing, you’re not really celebrating what you have to offer and it's not helpful. I’m really aware of that comparison habit now and dampening down the ego. My ego got me into a position in my career where I had climbed the ladder and where people would have seen me as being successful, but I didn't feel successful. I took jobs I didn’t think I would like, because it was a really good position.

The traps that are always there in the corner for me are comparison, ego and being hard on myself. I always prided myself on being incredibly diligent and disciplined. If I was asked to do something, I’d aim to ace it, to overachieve, but that's what burned me out and exhausted me. Now I do a lot of work with my clients around “tender discipline”. Discipline requires you to be a disciple unto yourself. My view of discipline was more of a bootcamp instructor to myself. Now I am need much gentler, more tender.

If I put 50 things on my to-do list, there's no way I'm going to achieve it all this week and I'm going to feel rubbish. So I just take a few of those things off, I do a tender to-do list. I focus on what matters and also what really needs to be on there that's going to help me perform and feel better. We do an exercise on MBSR, which is called nourish and drain where I get people to write down everything that they do in a typical day, and then put an N or a D next to it, based on whether it nourishes or drains. It’s quite an eyeopener for people when they realise they have loads of D’s.

Work out how can you put more N’s in. And explore if some draining things could they be nourishing? For example, I saw my children as a drain. When I was working 50 or 60 hours a week and traveling all the time, I did see them as a drain, because I was exhausted. Now they are a point of nourishment play and presence to me. I feel good about the fact that I've seen that and I feel I’m a better parent because of it.

Q5 WHAT INSPIRES AND MOTIVATES YOU?

I get inspired and motivated about being of service and helping people, being the North Star and guiding people to the insights they have at the end of the eight week courses that I run. I’m moved by people's capacity to change in a positive way. I'm not an evangelist about this. I don't like to think I'm the secret ingredient, but if I can help people see that they have everything they need, then I find that really inspiring.

I've got people that I'm inspired by as well, Sharon Salzberg, Sebene Selassie, Vidyamarla Burch, who has been through real adversity, is in chronic pain and has brought so much of her gift to the world and really helped people. I’m uplifted by people who bring what they've got to say in a really non-judging, beautiful way and help others get insights. I get inspired by people who do that work and I'm also inspired by people in general. I've been doing a course recently around my creative ancestors, the people out there that really inspire me, dead or alive. Just spending time with other people's energy - I find that quite awesome. That's why I love doing the podcast. You'll be the same. You meet all these people. Everybody's a little bit different, but actually we've got way more in common than we have got different. We were in a society now that keeps focusing on the differences, but actually even in this pandemic we are so interconnected.

Q6 CAN YOU DESCRIBE A BREAKTHROUGH THAT YOU'RE PARTICULARLY PROUD OF?

Right now I’m having a bit of a breakthrough. I have been putting a lot of time aside for self-inquiry. Out of that, I realised I need to have spaces in my life. I've always filled my life with lots of stuff. So the breakthrough has been dropping extra things, even in my business. I want to write a book and I need space to do that. Another breakthrough is being self-aware, so when I’m not feeling good, I’m aware, I enquire where it comes from and then don’t shoot from the hip.

A life-changing breakthrough was having my double hip replacement. It was such a physical violation of my body. They literally saw off the top of your hip bones. I had both done, in a four to five hour operation. I had to learn to walk again. I had to be really physically vulnerable and needed people to help me. I had three children, so I had to have people help me to be a mum. I couldn't drive anywhere. We had a nanny who drove me places. That was quite hard for me. I like to be the person that helps others.

I also had to be really patient in my healing and building myself up again. I've always gone at things, but I had to be patient. Within six weeks I was walking 10km again. After three months I climbed the Sydney Harbour bridge, but I did that through going really slowly. So that taught me, profound stuff happens when you go really slowly. Proper recovery was six months. I've got a very full life now. I thank God for modern medicine because bad arthritis is no fun. It's like having broken glass in your joints.

Q7 WHAT DO YOU SEE AS BEING YOUR BIGGEST LESSON?

I have had a recurring lesson. That lesson is tender discipline, to really look after yourself, to take time and space to sit and think. When I do emotional cultural workshops, I ask people, what are the top ways they want to feel and the things they don't want to feel in the workplace? What comes up every single workshop is overwhelm. No-one wants to feel it, but it's going to happen from time to time in the world, but definitely in the workplace. The mile-long to-do lists, the expectations. Everything's so fast paced and we've got really complex problems to solve in the world now. The only way we're likely to solve them is to create some space. It’s very rare people have spare days in their diary where there are no meetings. Time to just to sit and think.

I'm trying to get people to give themselves space for being, instead of doing. A lot of people are doers. There's nothing wrong with doing, but being is just being, we are human beings. Quite often, our being comes from our doing, and that was me ten years ago. My identity was Lotty the do-er. However, I realised, your doing should come from your being. Think about what your purpose is, what's important, what do you want to achieve, what impact do you want to leave? Life is short. I know it sounds so cheesy, because it is said over and over again, but it's actually true. Let your doing come from your being, rather than you being come from your doing.

Q8 HAS YOUR VISION AWAYS BEEN CLEAR AND HOW HAS IT EVOLVED?

My vision is constantly changing. When I started out my vision was covered with lots of layers, I couldn't see what it was, I was distracted from it. As I've gone through my career, building up the skills and being open to learning, I’ve managed to peel away the layers to what ss at the heart of everything that drives me. My vision is to be of service. I always wanted to help and be of service, but I probably had a skewed view of how to do that. Now I'm really clear that to be of service is not about doing stuff for people. It's about helping people to do stuff for themselves so that they suffer less and optimise who they are. Helping people to feel really good in who they are, not trying to be somebody else. For people to perform from their place.

Having reflected and gone back to when I was a 15, 20 and 25 year old, I think I've always had this desire and belief that I had an energy that could help people shift from being paralysed, stagnant and confused. I'm getting much closer to figuring out what I need to do or how that comes out of me - but it is not as a leader in a corporate role. I don't lead a large team anymore, but I’m still in the business of leadership. I want people to be leaders of themselves. We're all the CEO of ourselves. I'm helping people realise that, to get the lights turned on and everything fired up and working. For the benefit of themselves. But I’m realistic around that. Life's not always going to be fluffy. There's going to be some hard times, but you can again, surf through it.

Q9 WHAT WOULD YOU DO DIFFERENTLY IF YOU HAD TO START AGAIN FROM SCRATCH?

I wish I had had an injection of self-awareness back in my twenties. That constant trying to be something else rather than being happy with what you've got or what you are. I would have not given myself such a tough time. I'm always feeling like I'm not cutting it, I'm not quite good enough, or I'm not quite getting to the bit I want to get to. So I think I would have been a lot gentler on myself.

I'm reading a small book called “The book of the human shadow”. It describes “the large bag we drag”. When we're born we are ourselves. Then as our parents say, “Don't kick your sister.. Don't do this.. Don't talk when other people are talking”, you start to hide bits of yourself in this bag because you think you shouldn't have them. By the time you get your twenties, you've got this huge bag you're dragging and you meet someone else who's got their own bag they're dragging. You are a sliver of what you were because all those parts of yourself, your shadow self, you put away. We all have a shadow side. The brighter the light, the darker the shadow. I think I would have emptied that bag much sooner. I think I'm gradually emptying it now. I’m accepting my own self. I don't do every day. I’ll still beat myself up sometimes, but I'll notice when I'm doing it.

Connect with Joel

If you have enjoyed this article and want to start a conversation with Joel, you can reach out on:

Website: Joel Bouzaid

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joel-bouzaid/

Please don’t forget to tell Joel that I sent you.

Interview and photography by Wellington Headshot Photographer, Tim Morrison (all rights reserved)

Find more interviews like this one at the Wellington Hustle Interview Project.

Listen to the interview on your favourite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Stitcher Radio | Spotify | Google

Meet Joel Bouzaid...

Joel is a facilitator of growth and student of hard conversations. He helps people see their possibility, remove their limiting beliefs and guides them to become empowered, confident leaders.

Joel started his career as an International Operations Manager for Full On in Italy. Next, he Co-Founded a Health Facility with his brother. Now Joel is a keynote speaker and coaches culture development and leadership for large organisations across New Zealand.

Q1 WHAT WAS YOUR VISION WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED YOUR VENTURE?

My vision has always been clear. Whatever mode I'm in, leading a class, keynote speaking or one-on-one coaching, I’m there to create a sense of possibility and a guide to remove limiting beliefs. That's always been the vision. It's vague, but that’s okay, as long as it's exciting.

I teach leadership. Over time, I’ve found that the most important work for leaders, before they start leading others, is to learn to lead themselves. Some people are into that. Others want to jump straight to building trust and performance in their teams.

What’s become particularly evident when dealing with a mix of leadership perspectives, is understanding the environment. So when I go into a business, I’ll help a small team distil their culture. Clarifying how their business chooses to execute and perform at its best. Once team members are crystal clear with a sense of identity, they then have an actual shot of fully expressing their leadership.

But until then, people operate by walking on eggshells, trying to lead, but not trusting colleagues to have their backs. They’ll always be holding back. To create possibility, I really want people to show up and give it their everything. Then they're actually associate being at work with a sense of positivity. They know work is psychologically safe, they're accepted and included, and it’s encouraged for them to lead fully.

The main leadership issue is uncovering what prevents a person from being able to fully express themselves. Often people are stopped by difficult conversations. My aim is to create ways to approach those difficulties. Ultimately gaining clarity and possibility for those conversations to happen. Establishing what can we achieve together. Working together to figure out the next few steps, so you can achieve your goals. This is an engaging, vulnerable, open, honest and candid conversation.

Mostly I train small teams, but I also love jumping on stage to work with hundreds of people.

Coaching one-on-one is limited in terms of my impact in the world. Although, it is effective at testing ideas, asking questions and quickly receiving feedback. It helps me gain an intimate understanding of what drives ambitious team leaders.

Q2 HOW DID YOU DEAL WITH EARLY SETBACKS?

I worked with my brother, which was immensely rewarding. But switching back and forth between family and professional relationships was challenging. It wasn't a setback. It was a growth opportunity for me. At times, it felt like we weren’t moving as fast as we could. Dealing with this was ongoing with difficult conversations and consistent communications.

Looking back, I now feel more experienced to have those harder conversations with anyone. But at the time, they were certainly challenging for both of us. My brother and I have a deep respect for each other. We were never going to let anything professional get in the way, but that takes a lot of energy.

Time and energy are two of the greatest resources in life. Everybody has their own version of, “I don't have enough time.”

When energy runs low, it makes for a challenging lifestyle, sense of fulfilment and purpose. You have to protect them well. I believe it's been good for my brother and me, now that I’ve fully committed to teaching leadership outside of health and fitness.

Feedback tells me that I have good energy. But when life decelerates or isn’t what I expect, it gets me down. So, I have a few daily rituals that help maintain a high level of energy. My aim is to have a similar, if not greater amount of energy for my kids at the end of the day, as I had for the workshop that morning. It’s only fair. I believe that the measure of a great father, like a great leader, is that we can give our energy to the people that need it.

“I’m tired,” that's the discussion around energy. The most commonly used phrase. I would love to have people thinking about how to add more energy into their life. So when they are getting tired, it’s 8 pm as opposed to 3 pm and they don’t fall apart for the evening shift.

Earlier in my career as an Operations Manager, I really rated myself in terms of delivering great service for the client. I believed it was a reflection of my leadership. I poured all my eggs into this basket. In 2010, my boss observed me for the day and provided feedback. I was expecting him to say, “Joel, top job!”. But he blew me up. It really shocked me. I actually felt like throwing in the towel. I thought I was doing a really great job. He then demonstrated that I wasn’t only doing a poor job, I was also falling down in other areas and it just wasn’t good enough.

Many of those difficult conversations ended up serving me well for the future. Not to press harder necessarily, but to ask good questions about how I’m doing and how I can do better. That hard moment 10 years ago was instrumental as a setback.

Q3 WAS THERE A TIME YOU WANTED TO GIVE UP?

Thinking about giving up reminds me of how resilient humans can be. I have a deep belief that no matter how hard it gets, human beings have an amazing capacity to deal with deep adversity. We’re experiencing that now, halfway through a pandemic.

One time in Italy, I was setting up our abseil site. I forgot my safety line and leaned out over the 35-meter drop. Afterwards, when I realised my mistake, it really hit me how close I could have been to my end.

As the operations manager on that site, I shouldn't have been setting up in the first place. I was trying to do everything. Often this is what operations managers have to do.

It made me realise the importance of having the right people around me. Trusting in them to do their piece, allowing me to contribute to the bigger picture.

Q4 WERE THERE ANY TRAPS THAT YOU FELL INTO?

As human beings, we’re consistently worried about being good enough and accepted by others. It’s very natural. My common traps are trying to please and being likeable. Especially as a leader. I want to do a good job and part of that is about getting on with people and building trust. But in reality, I can't be everything to everybody. And at some point, it just ends in frustration for them.

If you want to grow and develop as a leader, you must first develop principles that serve you really well in different situations.

When I first started in Italy, I wanted to be the popular operations manager. Everybody should want to come to my site. They’d be inspired by my ability to communicate. I wanted our sales to be the best ever. So, I’d do whatever it takes to achieve those targets.

This impacted my energy, wellbeing and family started to suffer. It wasn’t sustainable longterm. Then after 10 years of travel between New Zealand and Italy, I began to wonder who I was as a leader. What’s my leadership philosophy? Is it built around pleasing people? Meeting targets? Do I have a deep sense of way strengths and what works for me? That experience taught me to put myself first.

All those times flying to Italy, I never watched more than one movie per flight. Instead, I would spend time getting clear on my vision. I would write out how I wanted every aspect of the trip to unfold. So, when I’m asked a question about the operation, I can clearly communicate my vision with deep conviction.

So often in leadership, we don’t know what we want. The same applies to our individual lives also. This applies to me too. A big part of my personal development is getting clear on how I can serve others and best live my life.

Q5 WHAT INSPIRES AND MOTIVATES YOU?

Helping people unlock their personal insights. That moment when someone says “hang on”, and there’s a sudden shift in their thinking and language. Being part of that process and creating a space where these shifts happen is just huge for me. It's a beautiful thing when you can bring insight into the conversation.

This is why I’ll spend hours perfecting my craft. I want to create that moment for people. When they grow, they engage. Engagement is one of the worlds biggest challenges right now. Not just in the workplace, but at home. Just think, how hard is it to engage with your family and friends? People have their cell phones everywhere. So we're fighting engagement.

Q6 CAN YOU DESCRIBE A BREAKTHROUGH THAT YOU'RE PARTICULARLY PROUD OF?

Four years ago I ran a pilot program for a large organisation in New Zealand. I presented to 12 people. They were tasked with deciding whether to make me part of their national training. I thought the workshop went great. But, at the end of the day, they couldn't see any value. It was super awkward and I took a few days to reflect. As it happened they did provide me with feedback. I adjusted the program and they accepted me into their national training. My program ended up with the highest feedback rating ever received for an external trainer.

This experience reinforced to me that we don't always see things ‘as they are’. Remember, we’re looking through the filter of ‘as we are’. It’s important to keep this in mind when working with others.

I now believe that positively reinterpreting that experience has taught me that I’m able to shift my perspective on almost any situation. Given the opportunity, I can do some amazing work. I must continue to believe and remind myself that I’m making a difference.

Q7 WHAT DO YOU SEE AS BEING YOUR BIGGEST LESSON?

Continuing to get better at having conversations that matter.

There’s an inherent value of giving and receiving feedback. Consistently having difficult conversations sends a message that you care about growth and development. Most people try to avoid this.

I didn't show up in the world saying “I love having hard conversations.” I would rather conserve my energy. But, if you're interested in developing people, then you need to get good at difficult conversations. Conversations where participants walk away appreciating the support for their personal growth. All of my growth has come from hard feedback.

I’m thankful to all those people who disagreed with me at such a vulnerable level. Without that, I won’t grow and it’s a key to life. Seeing how far you’ve come is really fulfilling. No matter how you identify with yourself. The cool thing is that you don't have to know exactly where you're going. But, I do think it’s important to have a vision to develop clarity. Knowing that you are growing and you're doing your best is really rewarding.

As human beings, we tend to slip into tendencies of easy access. Areas like being passive, (lazy), or finding significance with alcohol or gossiping. That's the ultimate trap. By not stretching ourselves, we lose the self-belief that we can achieve greatness. We don’t push ourselves anymore. So for significance, we unfortunately look to either harming ourselves or others. And that’s terrible. Just look around the world and you’ll see all that stuff.

The number one book and keynote in 2019 was Kindness in Leadership. So that tells us there are awesome leaders and organisations looking for experts to help them be kind. What a great world to stand for. Where people are kind. I really believe in that.

Historically, we've done a terrible job. Just look at the engagement of a family at a restaurant. Human nature is low energy, conserve it for something else and do the bare minimum. We've got a real fight on our hands. First with ourselves, for the rest of our lives. But also with our teams and our families. Discovering what it takes to step into kindness. That takes energy, intention and vision and is a topic that I'm certainly passionate about.

Q8 HAS YOUR VISION AWAYS BEEN CLEAR AND HOW HAS IT EVOLVED?

8 years ago I got really clear about my purpose. That was a defining moment for me. It's much simpler now that I know my ‘why’ is to create possibility. Obviously with each different environment, (person or organisation), that vision will have subtle differences.

A lot of my work has been helping people older than me (I’m 36). I’ve realised that as people get older, they become less selfish and more selfless. I found it interesting to look back at younger people (20 - 30-year-olds) and noticed how self-interested they are. It made me wonder, why can't we become selfless early on? I believe I figured it out, at least for myself. It’s because we haven't yet developed into the person we’re proud of. And so we stay self-interested for a long period of life. Then once we accept who we are, we can then commit to shift focus to other causes, people and change.

Q9 WHAT WOULD YOU DO DIFFERENTLY IF YOU HAD TO START AGAIN FROM SCRATCH?

When playing rugby and the other team scored, we used the saying, “Nil All”. You don’t feel very good when the other team scores. “Nil All” was our mental reset and a way of starting.

I feel like I’m always starting again. Whenever I start with a new team, they don’t know me. I have to prove that I can be useful to them, even before we start. I'm consistently restarting. You're no better than your next performance.

Looking back if I could do something differently, I would get more coaching. I was coached real early on before it was a thing. Even now, people still don’t get coaching in New Zealand. It's a good idea to sit down, share, then work out how you can do better and grow. Coaching is really useful. People out there have walked the journey before you. Some have written books, some haven’t. Just go talk to them and ask questions. It will help you achieve more, faster.

The voice in the back of our mind is constantly telling us we don’t have the energy or time. But what if you could behave in a way where you had those? How would that change your life? Go and find the right people to talk too now and develop your self-leadership skills.

Something I'm passionate about is a saying, “in order to lead well, first lead thigh self”. Tim Ferriss has a Ted Talk on the idea of, hard choices = meaningful life, easy choices = hard life. I believe that’s what self-leadership is about. Working out which hard choices you need to make.

Choosing the hard is really healthy, but taxing. Invest in your energy and look after yourself. Live a life that regenerates you instead of being overwhelmed and anxious. The key is getting out into nature. You learn so much in the outdoors that no book can teach you. It is, without a doubt, my renewal place. Some people may go to Bali for a silent retreat. For me, I climb mountains. It brings me rejuvenation and perspective. There's just something about choosing the hard in nature that re-enforces what you’re doing in everyday life. That's really rewarding.

Connect with Joel

If you have enjoyed this article and want to start a conversation with Joel, you can reach out on:

Website: Joel Bouzaid

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joel-bouzaid/

Please don’t forget to tell Joel that I sent you.

Interview and photography by Wellington Headshot Photographer, Tim Morrison (all rights reserved)

Find more interviews like this one at the Wellington Hustle Interview Project.

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Meet Kerene Strochnetter. Kerene is in the business of bringing the practice of mindfulness to corporate leadership. Making the inwards cool.

Kerene’s career spans being a registered nurse, teacher, coach, consultant and now business owner.

Her company, Mindful at Work, helps change the way people think and behave in business. Or as Kerene likes to put it, “stopping people from being such $#&^holes in the workplace”.

What was your vision when you first started your venture?

I didn't have one. I don't believe in really clear visions.

Moving to Wellington, I began working in the corporate world. It was fascinating and I loved it. It was so different from working in public health and education.

After making several significant faux pas' in my personal life, I discovered mindfulness.

While training as a coach, I was first introduced to mindfulness through neuroscience. Neuroscience was just becoming known. It's a blend of old age philosophical practices and what science has actually proven. To cut a long story short, I started meditating every day and followed meditation expert Dr Joe Dispenza.

I saw meditation as being transformative for my own life. So much so that I realised if my coaching clients were practising mindfulness and meditation, then I wouldn't be working with such messed up people. That sounds very selfish, but some clients would vomit out such awful circumstances. They'd tell me all the reasons why and everything they think I should be coaching them on, which would fix it all. But, I believed if we didn't explore under the surface for the problems creating these thoughts and feelings, then we may as well be straightening deck chairs on the Titanic.

So, I began refusing to coach people until they started practising mindfulness.

There's a particular therapy called Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT), which is basically mindfulness with legs. I had no idea such a thing existed.

The wonderful Sam Hannah first introduced ACT to me. Then, in the middle of writing a mental health program with Michael Bunting, he suggested that we needed to incorporate ACT. After a lot of research, I discovered that its a form of mindfulness therapy. Helping people to get clear about what really matters and to understand how they could be self-sabotaging their ideal life.

I've never been interested in teaching people to be better meditators. I'm interested in people knowing themselves, knowing what matters and having the tools to create the life they really want. It's not about having a perfect life, it's about not sleepwalking through life.

Working with high functioning corporate leaders. These people are suffering. Their lives are incredibly busy. They're constantly distracted by technology. So they can really relate to the impact their successful lives have on them. So I combine mindfulness with leadership coaching.

But it's not just about meditating. It's about changing behaviour and we're not built for it as human beings. We're created to be risk-focused, highly distractible and hyper-vigilant. Designed to live as long as we possibly can. Evolutionary wise, anything that was dangerous killed you. If you're removed from your tribe, you dead.

So, get a performance review with 29 expectations exceeded and 1 unmet. Which do you focus on? Which wakes you at 3am worrying about losing your job, not being able to pay the mortgage? It's where our minds go. We are really programmed to be miserable.

Mindfulness is a practice to rebalance the score. Tuning into life, not living so much in our heads and stopping to smell the roses. If you have no way of observing your thoughts, you will become them. We don't think about how gorgeous, brilliant, and talented we are. We think about our faults and what could possibly disconnect us from our people. That's what we focus on. Our brain is there to keep us safe and connected.

How did you deal with early setbacks?

My philosophy has always been stay in action and get good advice from people you trust. Don't sit and ruminate because your mind will do you in.

If anything, my mindfulness practice makes me aware of when I'm ruminating. I'm really in the business of managing my own mind. When I experience setbacks, I use my practice to help. It doesn't make everything turn out perfect. But it stops me from going into analysis paralysis.

When a setback hits, I tend to get more lost in my mind. For example, if I'm keynote speaking and I'm going to talk to 100 accountants. Managing my mind is really important. It's also about getting myself into that peak performance state. I meditate every day. I practice yoga, walk or go to the gym every day. I eat and sleep really well. When I'm in top form and walk out to deliver, I'm confident and energised. Of course it will go well.

I know my stuff. If I find myself wanting more preparation time, that's a warning to me. Stop, pause, breathe, be present and connect. My best tends to occur when I'm really connected with myself and those in front of me.

I noticed anxiety. If you don't experience anxiety before a big speaking event, there's probably something wrong with you. Just relabel that anxiety as excitement, knowing it's here to help.

Getting yourself into condition is really important. Self-care. This is the opposite of what we're often taught. People can see that as incredibly selfish, but when you're in top form feeling really well, it just tends to spill over.

Was there a time that you wanted to give up?

No. I've had low moments, but there's never been a time where I've wanted to give up.

Were there any traps that you fell into?

It's always going to be self-doubt. My job is knowing how to deal with it. That doesn't mean positive thinking and affirmations. You have to feel and believe it.

As an Australian, I've struggled to promote myself. Culturally it makes me cringe. Don't talk yourself up. And yet, I am selling myself. There's a real tension there.

I know cool, famous people. But it makes my skin crawl to namedrop. Self-doubt, it's innate in all of us. We all run the script that we're not good enough. It's constant. Practice seeing it, letting it sit there and choosing differently.

A lot of people think "if only I could get rid of this voice". Most aren't even aware they have that voice. You can't get rid of it. Its there for a reason, to keep you safe. Just let the voice be there and choose differently.

Mindfulness is all about awareness. If you don't have awareness then you're just at its mercy.

Just noticed when the voice pops up.

I've coached so many people. It doesn't matter how beautiful, wealthy or successful they are. They all have self-doubt. Absolutely. Everybody. It's just part of the human condition.

What inspires and motivates you? 

My friends. I surround myself with brilliant people. Those who are kind and have high emotional intelligence. It takes an incredibly brave person to be kind and that inspires me.

A resource that I love is the book called Women Who Run With The Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola. I first came across this book, through a woman's book club. They were all raving about it. I've probably read it 30 times since. One of my man friends asked if it was a feminist book, but it isn't. It has a thin feminist intent. As women, certainly I know I have this, we have a strong resistance to being contained.

I highly recommend this book. To anybody who wants to read it, be prepaid to be challenged, but there is gold inside. Clarissa Pinkola, English is not her first language, so it can be a challenging read. It's a beautiful, beautiful book.

My sons, when they were teenagers, would tease me by saying "Oh yeah, but you run with the Wolves don't you mum?"

Can you describe a breakthrough that you're particularly proud of?

When I realised that I was not listening to my inner knowing or gut instinct. Whatever you want to call it.

I was flying to Western Australia and stumbled upon the book Eat Pray Love in Auckland Airport. I was determined not to read it because I thought it was soppy. But I was bored. So I opened it up and inside the front cover was the message "tell the truth, tell the truth, tell the truth". And I had this whack in my mind that said: "to yourself, to yourself, to yourself".

At that moment, I knew I'd been lying to myself. Not listening to my own heart. Which was the reason why I was escaping to Western Australia.

I had only just started meditating. Tuning in to your own inner knowing is a big part of mindfulness. Helping you make wiser choices in life.

What do you see as being your biggest lesson?

Being true to yourself.

If you can't be truthful to yourself, it's impossible to tell the truth to anybody else.

Has your vision always been clear and how has it evolved?

No, it's never been clear. I don't think it has to be. Occasionally, a few people may have a very clear vision that they stick to. But I believe most of us stumble our way through the dark, looking for signposts.

If you listen to your heart, great advice and be prepared you'll find your way. This sounds cliche, but, be prepared to screw up regularly and learn from it.

I have a clear sense of purpose. Making a difference, having fun and making some money.

My youngest son has the attitude towards life of 'If it's not fun, I'm not doing it'. That doesn't mean everything is all wonderful for him. He seriously thinks about his life choices. If something isn't enjoyable, then he stops doing it pretty quickly.

What would you do differently if you had to start again from scratch?

I would listen to my own gut. But in saying this, I didn't have the skills in the beginning. I feel this is to do with my upbringing. I'm not blaming it. My upbringing created a big chasm between me and my emotions.

If I had the perfect upbringing where I was given permission to tap into my emotions, then I wouldn't be the person or doing the work that I am today. I'm incredibly imperfect. A huge thing is being able to see your own ridiculousness. Be prepared to laugh at that inner critic and the amazing ways that you have screwed up.

My father taught me to see the humour in everything.

Connect with Kerene

If you have enjoyed this article and want to start a conversation with Kerene, you can reach out on:

Website: Mindful at Work

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kerenestrochnetter

Or order Kerene’s book, dive in and make a change: Crazy Busy.

Please don’t forget to tell Kerene that I sent you.

Find more interviews like this one at the Wellington Hustle Interview Project.   

Listen to the interview on your favourite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Stitcher Radio | Spotify | Google   

MEET DIGBY SCOTT, THE CORPORATE REBEL   

An Australian adventurer, husband, father and developer of leaders looking to bring change to the world.   

Originally a Charted Accountant, Digby felt the world had more to offer, turned to travel, headed to Canada and spent a season working at a ski resort. He then followed this up by talking his way onto a commercial salmon boat with no experience. He finally settled back into the corporate world as a professional recruiter in London.   

This is when Digby found his passion. Development of people, development of culture, development of organisations. Getting the best out of people and helping them grow towards a new future.   

Q1 WHAT WAS YOUR VISION WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED YOUR VENTURE?   

My idea was to offer career coaching. I wanted to help align people with their ideal work. When people play to their strengths, deliberately choosing the work they love, then the organisations who employ them benefit. In the late nineties, coaching wasn't valued by organisations as much as it is now. I quickly started working on a way to develop leaders and managers to become the catalyst for other employees' change. Empowering them to show up as the best person they could be.   

At the time, only a few organisations were conscious of this approach. Now the idea of developing the best in people to improve their performance is the zeitgeist of today.   

Based in Wellington, I work with public sector agencies, government departments, as well as several private sector companies.   

Primarily if an organisation looks to shift its culture, I'll coach a handful of people to be the change agents. People who'll make a disproportionate impact. Then I also work with the executive team to help them support the change agents to make that culture shift. You can't just drive change from the top.   

My book Change Makers came about to help run my workshops and programs. A book is a great way to help people for very little money to get maximum value for time. You don't have to be anywhere. You just take your book off the bookshelf, sit down in your bean bag and soak it up. For $20 or $30, that's a pretty good investment.   

Q2 HOW DID YOU DEAL WITH EARLY SETBACKS?   

The setbacks that I've experienced are mindset barriers.

I'll give you an example. I stayed two years too long before leaving Inspire Group. I realised my enthusiasm for the job and performance was flatlining. I had stories in my head about why I shouldn't leave. That wasn't good for me. I was less excited about work. I was wanting to work for myself and believed I would make more of an impact doing so. But then I wouldn't move.

Fortunately, I had a couple of good mentors who challenged me to change my story. Gently but firmly holding my feet to the fire. Eventually, I spoke with the CEO and it was relatively painless. We discussed me leaving, made a six-month timeline and managed it well. I should have done that a couple a few years earlier.

Sure, I could say I wouldn't be the person I am now without that lesson. The setback was two years of my life that I could have used way more productively. The lesson, if you feel hesitation, and you want to move on, then you really must examine that feeling.

Tim Ferris is one of my favourite podcasters. He has a great Ted talk on fear setting. We have goal setting, but unless you're addressing the fear holding you back, you're likely to stay stuck.

He has this lovely process of analysing the worst possible case scenario. When you examine your fear, it becomes smaller. He uses these questions to help take action:

1. What could you do to prevent failure from happening? If you acted, what preventative measures would you have in place?

2. What would you go if things didn't work out? What could you do to repair it?

3. What's the cost of inaction?

Many senior leaders have flatlined in their work and are asking the question 'what else?' Moving on seems dangerous, maybe causing the loss of money or credibility. So there's inaction that needs circuit breaking as soon as possible. It's fundamental so as not to block innovation or other people from progressing. I want to be a catalyst for a more deliberate choice. Not just for individuals, but society. Guiding people to have more purpose towards contribution. Not just making a difference, but also making a life.

Personally, with encouragement from my mentors, I discussed with past clients the possibility of working differently together. Determining if I had a service they would be interested in. That validation quickly built the self-belief I needed to move forward. I could have read all the books in the world, but I don't think it would have helped. It's the human connection, their belief in you, that makes you believe in yourself.

I'm a huge believer that there's a couple of key things that shape our behaviour.

QUOTE:

"Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny."

― Gandhi

Think about that. The more we understand the wiring inside our heads, the more choice we have around our behaviours. I'm a huge believer in the power testing our assumptions. We tell ourselves all these stories about what's okay, what's safe and what's not. They're all invented.

Environment also shapes behaviour. The saying is "You're the average of the five people you hang around with the most". So who do you choose to hang out with? The more you can deliberately be an environment that serves you, the better you're going to be.

QUOTE:

The more you can deliberately be an environment that serves you, the better you're going to be.

― Digby

For me, living in Wellington, access to nature is right there. If I'm running a workshop or keynote, I'll go for a walk in nature. The beach, the bush, wherever it might be. If I can't, I'll listen to music. I've have a bunch of different Spotify playlists for different situations. Music's great for mood shifts. Often after a good day, I'll play my Heavier playlist and rock out all the way home. Who knows what people in the other cars are thinking.

I have a handful of people that are just gold. You've interviewed Gillian Brookes on your podcast. We just lift each other, it's awesome. That's 'one of the five people' sort of thing and reaching out to those people.

I have a cool people list. I'd never share who's on it. It changes all the time. I have thirteen people on it at any one time. One for each week in a quarter.

Every Friday I'll call one person from the list. If I can't get hold of them, I'll leave them a voicemail. Something like, "Hey, thinking of you, just wanted to connect and see how you're going". When we do see each other and it might not be for a quarter or two, we at least have that connection. I'm deliberate about that.

Q3 WAS THERE A TIME YOU WANTED TO GIVE UP?

I had burnout in the mid to late nineties. It was a soul-destroying time. I wasn't suicidal, but I was at a low point. I really had to dig deep into 'who am I and what do I want from life.'

I did a lot of that work in my late twenties / early thirties. If I'm honest, it probably took me almost five years.

That work set the mould for how I am today. At a deep level, I created a strong sense of conviction for the work that I want to do. It's like moving a big heavy wheel, pushing until it gets momentum.

Whenever I've come across obstacles or challenges, I have a deep conviction to find a way around it. Sometimes there are some blind alleys. But there are no doubts. I know this is the work for the rest of my life. Of course, it evolves and grows. But the core idea is still there.

So no, there's not a time where I've wanted to give up. It's more realising that I'm a little flatlined and asking what's the next version?

Q4 WERE THERE ANY TRAPS THAT YOU FELL INTO?

Yes…

· I get seduced into work that looks sexy on the surface, only to find it's not.

· Saying yes out of fear.

· Letting my ego get in the way and not wanting to let people down or upset them.

Overthinking is another trap. For example, my book Change Makers. I had the idea of writing it three years before I did. My next book, I have the idea, in six months there will be a book. Don't overthink it, don't overanalyse it, just experiment. Try things out and get moving. This is probably the biggest one for me. I'll still hold back sometimes, I'm only human after all. But I'll also have someone to hold me accountable.

(As of writing this article Digby has isolated himself to concentrate on writing his next book)

Q5 WHAT INSPIRES AND MOTIVATES YOU?

Every year, for the last 20 years, I go to a place in northwest Western Australia with a bunch of mates and camp for two weeks. It's on the edge of the ocean. It's rugged, 150kms from the closest town, world-class waves, coral reef, sea life abundant, stars abundant and no cell phone coverage. We windsurf and surf our hearts out.

It's really hard to put into words. If something catastrophic happened in the world, we wouldn't know about it. There's something quite cool about simplicity. Slowing down and getting away from complexity. Whenever I strip back this stuff from my life, something else always emerges. And that happens for me on these trips. It's why I keep going back. I'm not particularly religious, but there's a connection to something bigger that happens out there.

What also inspires me are stories of authenticity, people who remove their facade.

I coached a lady who was the head of one of Australia's largest mine sites. To start she was gruff, wearing steel cap boots, overalls, serious with a strong handshake. As I got to know her over a year, she began to be her authentic self. Interested in holistic sustainability, she searched the answer to the question "How can we be an amazing corporate citizen when we're a miner?"

The struggle to drop the facade enabling her to fit in, a female in a man's world. Working out who she is and how she wants to contribute and taking action to make the change. That story still inspires me years later.

Q6 CAN YOU DESCRIBE A BREAKTHROUGH THAT YOU'RE PARTICULARLY PROUD OF?

Stepping out from behind myself and being authentic. Susan Scott wrote a lovely book called Fierce Conversations. She says, "Come out from behind yourself, into the conversation and make it real."

I had a breakthrough by launching the Change Makers program. I'm proud of what it's become and the massive value it provides people. But at the time, I was terrified to launch, what if they didn't like it?

I'd been hiding behind delivering other people's programs and structures. I was delivering my own material, but it was safe. Change Makers was different and ballsy. I drew a line in the sand, showing what I stand for, promising value and asking for money. It was very scary for me. The breakthrough was actually just pushing through that fear and going for it.

Now I love what I do. Change Makers is my favourite work. In part, it's because I had to grow up to do it.

Q7 WHAT DO YOU SEE AS BEING YOUR BIGGEST LESSON?

Breaking through mental barriers and trusting myself. Think of the Marianne Williamson quote, "Who are you to play small?" It's about moving away from the story of not good enough and being judged. Some people will judge you, so what.

Decide who you are, what you stand for and the impact you want to make. It doesn't have to be world-changing. It could be making change for another person. Then work towards that change. Realise that all fears and most rules are invented. If you hold that frame, you'll travel through the world way more lightly and have a lot more fun.

I used to be driven by the need for approval. Yesterday I ran a workshop with a group of leaders. Afterwards, I felt that the work didn't land with some of them. That night, I reflected on how I felt about that. I realised, firstly, it may have landed, I just don't know. Secondly, maybe it hasn't landed yet and I planted a seed that will grow. Thirdly, if it didn't land, then that's life. I can't be all things to all people. I'll do the best with what I have.

It helped me drop the baggage that I didn't need. That's important. If you're not putting out there that what you believe is useful and helpful for other people, then no one's better off. You have to do it. But also there's no guarantee that everyone's going to love it.

Q8 HAS YOUR VISION ALWAYS BEEN CLEAR AND HOW HAS IT EVOLVED?

Vision comes and goes for me. I remember years ago, my wife asked me "what's your vision for your work?" I couldn't answer it. I was terrified. It was horrible.

Sometimes my vision is absolutely crystal clear. Other times it's just a feeling. That's okay. Live every day based on your values and now and then think about where you're going.

When my vision is unclear, it's because I haven't managed my energy well. I've been working too hard or not looking after myself. Whatever it might be, I just lose sight of stuff.

Slow down, try not to think, just see what bubbles up and then have somebody ask you good questions.

I haven't really answered the question, but given you my process. People need to beat themselves up if they don't have a clear vision. Instead, think about your process for allowing it to emerge.

There's an author Parker J Palmer, who wrote Let Your Life Speak. He says, it's not really about seeking out your purpose, but stopping and listening to what your life is telling you. What's it all about for you? How are you spending your time and where are you most lit up? Then reflecting on that. That tells you what your vision and purpose can be about.

Q9 WHAT WOULD YOU DO DIFFERENTLY IF YOU HAD TO START AGAIN FROM SCRATCH?

Nothing. I'll tell you why. I said earlier, "The person I am today is only because of the things I've tried, lessons learned and decisions I've made. So I wouldn't change a thing. I'm saying that from a position where life is pretty fine. Nothing's broken. I enjoy my work, the people, the way I work.

If life was worse, I wonder if my answer would be the same? Would I have the wisdom realise this is a slump?

A similar question would be what advice would you give your 20-year-old self? I'd say, keep going. Just keep moving and exploring. That's how you learn and become you.

CONNECT WITH DIGBY

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