The Wholistic Center

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This week on The Ways We Move, I sit down with Francois Lassale, the current CEO of VAI — Vertical Aviation International, formerly HAI — and it turned out to be one of the richest conversations we have had on this podcast.

VAI represents the largest vertical lift association in the world, and Francois arrived at its helm at what he rightly calls an inflection point. Helicopters, drones, and eVTOLs are converging in the same airspace, with the same DNA and the same infrastructure challenges — and somebody needs to hold that community together. That is what VAI does. And Francois is the man who left Bali to do it.

His background alone is worth the listen. Born in Zimbabwe to a French father and a South African mother of Dutch descent, raised on a farm where he learned Zulu, deployed to Angola as a soldier in a Zulu commando unit, then the Royal Air Force, then the French national reserve — all three commissions simultaneously. He flew Harriers. He was a VIP helicopter captain and Special Forces pilot. Then the airline world, the UAE Presidential Flight, offshore safety in the North Sea, and three helicopter companies across Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, and Australia — run from Bali. His wife has followed him around the world more than once and kept the house in Bali. He still owes her.

In this episode we get into:

• Why VAI rebranded from HAI to VAI — and what vertical means for an industry that now includes drones, eVTOLs, and everything in between
• The investment gap that should concern everyone: roughly $6.5 billion went into helicopter innovation over the last five years while $28.5 billion went into AAM — and infrastructure received almost none of either
• How helicopters, drones, and eVTOLs share the same DNA and will operate in the same airspace — and why that makes VAI's institutional role more critical, not less
• The 10-year workforce cliff nobody is talking about: the average helicopter mechanic today is 56 years old, and the pipeline is not filling fast enough before AAM adds its own demand on top
• The Docklands Railway story — how London's autonomous train went from nobody will get on it to nobody thinks twice — and what that tells us about public trust in autonomous aircraft
• Why Florida leads the country in AAM infrastructure readiness, and why the airport funding model is the blueprint every other state should be following right now
• The FAA's $12.5 billion ATC modernization and what AI-driven airspace separation means for a sky shared by helicopters, drones, and eVTOLs
• Why vertiport should become multiport — and the real complexity of building charging, fire suppression, and certification for an entirely new class of aircraft into existing infrastructure
• VAI's data-sharing platform: anonymous, non-judgmental, benchmarking-driven — and why sharing safety data is the single most powerful thing an operator can do to protect their business and their industry
• Why safety is the currency of credibility — not a compliance checkbox, not a marketing line

Francois closes with the line he carried out of the Royal Air Force: keep the blue side up. And the reminder that none of this — not the aircraft, not the airspace, not the infrastructure, not the public trust — gets built by anyone working alone.

CHAPTER INDEX

00:00 Introduction 

00:06 Episode overview and guest introduction 

03:15 Welcome Francois Lassale 

03:29 Growing up in Zimbabwe, learning Zulu, serving in Angola 

05:09 The Royal Air Force, Harriers, and the path to helicopters 

06:00 VIP pilot, Special Forces, and the airline world 

06:52 UAE Presidential Flight and the move to America 

07:20 Offshore safety with Helioshore: oil, gas, and wind 

07:48 Running helicopter operations across Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, and Australia 

08:05 Why VAI came calling — and why Francois left Bali 

10:20 Replacing James Viola at the helm of the world's largest vertical lift association 

11:31 The VAI mission: bringing the full vertical lift community together 

12:35 Helicopters, drones, and eVTOLs: shared DNA, shared airspace 

15:23 Nobody can do this alone: the collaboration imperative 

16:17 The investment gap: $6.5B for helicopters vs $28.5B for AAM 

17:30 The FAA's $12.5B ATC modernization and what it means for shared airspace 

19:28 VAI's role: keeping heliports open and converting them to multiports 

20:39 ACAS, TCAS, and AI-driven separation in congested airspace 

23:25 Why vertiport should become multiport 

24:35 Infrastructure priorities: energy, public transport, and the full ecosystem 

25:27 VAI's five strategic initiatives and five-year plan 

26:43 The 10-year workforce cliff: average mechanic age is 56 

28:37 School visits, scholarships, and Rotor's autonomous Robinson helicopter 

31:27 The US vs. Europe infrastructure investment gap — and why it exists 

33:50 Why infrastructure is less attractive to investors than aircraft 

35:06 Florida as the model state: the airport funding blueprint for AAM 

38:35 The Docklands Railway story: public trust and the autonomous transition 

40:18 Horses, steam engines, EVs, and now eVTOLs: how technology adoption always goes 41:24 Francois goes electric: the Porsche Taycan 

42:41 What gets Francois out of bed: leaving Bali for Virginia to help lead a global industry 

46:09 Key takeaways: collaboration and safety as the currency of credibility 

47:24 VAI's data-driven approach and the benchmarking platform 

49:09 Start with the question, then collect the data 

50:32 Making the invisible visible: advocacy for the vertical lift industry 

51:35 Closing: keep the blue side up

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In this episode of The Ways We Move, Nicolas Zart speaks with Gaël Le Bris of WSP about the infrastructure side of advanced air mobility.

They explore airport readiness, vertiports, charging needs, U.S. vs. Europe, and why infrastructure is the glue that makes AAM possible.

Listen now and follow the show for more conversations on aviation, infrastructure, and emerging mobility.

00:00 Intro and schedule update
00:32 Guest intro: Gaël Le Bris
00:59 Infrastructure vs vehicles
01:28 U.S. vs Europe
02:18 Gaël Le Bris joins
05:34 AAM challenges
12:57 Investment gap
17:24 AAM examples
24:35 Florida’s role
30:03 European perspective
35:24 Global collaboration
45:24 Personal reflections
54:14 Closing thoughts

See our Patreon site for more: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheWaysWeMove 

And watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheWaysWeMove

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Brent Klavon, Chief Strategy Officer at ANRA Technologies, joins The Ways We Move to pull back the curtain on Uncrewed Traffic Management (UTM) — the invisible infrastructure that lets drones, delivery services, and first responders safely share the same airspace. 

From Amazon Prime Air to Dubai's air navigation system to Counter-UAS security at the FIFA World Cup, ANRA is operating at the intersection of technology, regulation, and global airspace complexity. 

And on AI? 

Brent has a refreshingly honest take. 

00:00 Introduction — Season 2 update and two-week hiatus explained 

03:28 Meet Brent Klaxon — Chief Strategy Officer, ANRA Technologies 

03:56 How ANRA Was Founded: Garage startup to NASA partnership (2015) 

05:04 What Is UTM? Uncrewed Traffic Management explained simply 

09:00 How drones fit into already-crowded airspace 

11:46 US airspace structure and why traditional ATC doesn't scale to drones 

13:01 The Three-Circle Framework: Technology, Standards, and Policy 

17:01 Real-world UTM today: Amazon Prime Air flying thousands of flights daily

18:23 Drone as First Responder — prioritization when the lights come on 

21:09 New York Power Authority: UTM for utility infrastructure at scale 

22:22 GPS spoofing, cybersecurity, and how ANRA monitors system health 

25:10 AI in UTM — not a silver bullet: what it actually does (and doesn't) 

25:37 EASA U-Space certification — first and only UTM provider in Europe 

28:19 Building an agnostic global platform: tailoring UTM for each market 

29:13 The Dubai project and the impact of regional conflict on delivery 

34:08 Counter-UAS at the FIFA World Cup 2026: protecting shared airspace 

38:07 Military and dual-use: where the lines are blurring 

39:25 Data privacy, ownership, and the coming FAA data rule. Competition and the state of the UTM market. Brent's personal note — lessons from seven years building ANRA 

🔗 ElectricAirMobility.news 

🔗 ANRA Technologies: anratechnologies.com 

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Matt Lapin is a counsel at Wiley Rein in Washington DC with a long background in international trade law — and in a sector where supply chain complexity, China de-risking, rare earth dependencies, and regulatory actions are reshaping everything, his perspective cuts through in ways the standard industry coverage doesn't reach.

We cover what supply chain actually means for a disruptive emerging technology, why COVID was the first real proof that globalized supply chains were more fragile than anyone admitted, and how the US-China geopolitical conflict is producing both constraint and genuine opportunity for AAM manufacturers and operators.

Matt breaks down the FCC's action against DJI, what the American Drone Dominance executive order signals about how the current administration views eVTOL, and why reading the policy two levels underneath the headline is the most important analytical skill anyone in this sector can develop right now.

His closing advice: understand the rules that are actually in play — not the ones you assumed were in play a year ago — and challenge every first principle your strategy was built on, because uncertainty is no longer the exception. It's the operating condition.

In this episode:

0:00 — The Trade Law Nerd Who Ended Up in Advanced Air Mobility

0:08 — Inside Wiley Rein: How International Trade Law Shapes Emerging Tech

1:08 — What "Supply Chain" Actually Means — And Why Everyone Gets It Wrong

3:22 — COVID's Real Legacy: The First Stress Test of Globalized Supply Chains

4:14 — The China Problem Is a Supply Chain Problem — And It's Not Going Away

5:40 — De-risking Without Decoupling: Why a Clean Break From China Isn't Happening

7:29 — Run Faster or Trip the Other Guy: How Policy Levers Actually Work

9:03 — What's Good for America Needs to Be Good for the Industry — Not the Other Way Around

11:25 — When the Government Decides Your Sector Is a National Security Asset

13:17 — The FCC's DJI Move: How a Regulatory Constraint Created a Domestic Drone Opportunity

15:39 — Rare Earths, Export Controls, and the Negotiation Hiding Inside the Tariff War

17:56 — How to Build Strategy When Uncertainty Is the Operating Condition

20:21 — The Rubik's Cube Mindset: Matt's Two Takeaways for Anyone in This Industry

Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Bk51yRB4ZQQ

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What does it actually take to build a zero-emission aircraft that can fly 8,000 miles — transatlantic, fully electrified, cargo-capable — using hydrogen? 

Not a better battery. Not a shinier fuel cell. 

A complete rethink of how the systems relate to each other from the very beginning.

Jared Semik is the founder and CEO of Eternium Aerospace Corporation, a Marine veteran with three combat deployments, and a 20-year aerospace R&D veteran responsible for roughly 20 proprietary technologies including a dual-rotor high-temperature superconductive motor. He's working on a cryogenic Brayton cycle propulsion architecture built on deconstructed NASA research — and a modular hydrogen production system designed to solve the infrastructure problem at the same time as the aircraft problem.

Eternium is still in stealth mode, so Jared can't share everything. But what he does share raises a question that goes well beyond aviation: why do so many innovators walk away from the old system to build something new — and then immediately recreate the same financial models and business structures they were trying to escape? New technology. Same thinking. Different result? Not usually.

This conversation covers hydrogen vs. batteries for aviation range, liquid vs. gaseous hydrogen trade-offs, why modularity fails when you're trying to change a paradigm, why critical mass in deep tech is a sociology problem as much as an engineering one, and what holistic systems thinking actually looks like in practice — in aerospace, in business, and in life.

Chapters

1. Introduction - 00:05 
2. Guest Introduction - 04:33
3. Discussion on Current Projects - 06:38
4. Challenges in Mobility Industry - 18:48
5. Energy Choices - 26:15
6. Current Work and Innovations - 37:22
7. Propulsion System Insights - 39:50
8. Conclusion and Takeaways - 55:36
9. Closing Remarks - 59:50

Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/324AJrjEfeY

And for previous episodes of the Ways We Move on your favorite podcast platforms, see: 

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The Ways We Move covers innovative mobility solutions and the people behind them. Subscribe for weekly conversations with the founders, engineers, and thinkers reshaping how we travel.

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Recorded live on the floor of Verticon 2026 — the world's premier rotorcraft event — this episode puts you inside three of the most important conversations happening at the intersection of traditional aviation and Advanced Air Mobility.

— How Bristow Group views eVTOL as an expansion of rotorcraft operations, not a replacement — and what turnkey operational solutions look like in practice with Mandy Nelson of Bristow Group at the Vertical Aerospace booth

— Why Eve Air Mobility's helicopter operator customer base is its strongest competitive differentiator, and how firm funded order conversions are progressing with Megha Bhatia, Chief Commercial Officer of Eve Air Mobility

— The certification pathway differences between FAA Part 23/27, EASA SC-VTOL, and UK CAA frameworks — and why flying over schools and villages in the UK creates safety documentation requirements that are generating invaluable early learning for the entire industry

A note on production quality: Nicolas's video camera and external microphone both failed on the day of recording. This episode was shot on a phone. The audio and video quality is not up to our usual standard and we sincerely apologize for that. 

Chapters

1. Introduction and Overview
   • 0:06 - Nicolas Zart introduces the podcast and shares his background in electric mobility.
2. Vertical's eVTOL Mock-up
   • 2:41 - Introduction to Vertical's eVTOL mock-up and its features.
3. Interview with Mandy from Bristow Group
   • 3:18 - Mandy Nelson discusses Bristow Group's involvement in Advanced Air Mobility.
4. Eve Air Mobility at VertiCon 2026
   • 5:24 - Megha Bhatia introduces E-Bare Mobility and their eVTOL.
5. Safran's Electric Motor and Turbo Generator
   • 9:26 - Discussion on Safran's electric motor and turbo generator.
6. Interview with Eric Barch from Verdeco Arrow
   • 10:26 - Eric Barch talks about VerdeGo Aero's hybrid electric power plant.
7. Robinson's Drone and Autonomous Helicopter
   • 13:11 - Overview of Robinson's drone and autonomous helicopter.
8. Panel Discussion on Advanced Air Mobility
   • 15:16 - Panel discussion with various industry leaders on the future of advanced air mobility.

Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/5EM3eHpSsx8

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Nicolas Zart finally gets David Moseley on the podcast — and it was worth the wait. 

David is a British physicist and automotive engineer who was present at two of the most pivotal moments in EV history: the early development of the Tesla Model S and the creation of the Lucid Air alongside Peter Rawlinson. 

Humble, sharp, and full of hard-won insight, David walks us through what it actually takes to build an electric vehicle from the ground up — from reimagining crumple zones without a combustion engine to rethinking powertrain concepts entirely. 

This is Part 1 of what will be a two-part conversation. Part 2 coming in approximately one month.

Chapters:

0:00 - Introduction & David's Background 7:02 - Building the Tesla Model S From Scratch 13:03 - Lucid Air, Battery Tech & True EV Design 18:03 - Global EV Market & The Road Ahead 30:25 - Software Challenges & Industry Lessons 54:09 - Personal Mission & Closing Thoughts

Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/MD09Ne5tqM0

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We went back to Augusta, Georgia for the seventh annual AGS Xchange Innovation Forum — one of the most grounded, honest, and genuinely useful one-day events in advanced air mobility. No hype. Just the people actually building this industry, in the same room, talking to each other.

In this episode you'll hear from SkyDrive's Robert Wariyar on the company's Tokyo demonstration flights, their 2028 J-CAB and FAA certification timeline, and why they're focusing on urban missions within a 30-mile radius. Professor Marilyn Smith of Georgia Tech's Vertical Lift Research Center of Excellence on collaboration, economic development, and the summer STEM camps bringing AAM to rural Georgia students. Nadine Auda, co-founder of Rune Aero, on their first-generation cargo test aircraft and why Georgia is becoming a hub for AAM innovation. SISO Air's team showing off NDA-compliant drone platforms including an extraordinary tail-sitting fixed-wing VTOL that covers 1,300 acres per battery. Diane Johnston of Augusta Regional Airport on seven years of building an ecosystem one conversation at a time.

A quick note on audio: our microphone went on strike at the worst possible moment. Some of the sound quality reflects that. Every speaker you hear in this episode will return for a full one-on-one episode with proper production quality — this is the preview.

Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/oLppTpVyU2c

Chapters: 

00:00 — Welcome & Introduction 

03:20 — On the floor: drone demonstrations and military UAS 

06:11 — SISO Air: NDA-compliant platforms and the tail-sitting VTOL 

10:30 — SkyDrive's Robert Wariyar: Tokyo demos, urban missions & 2028 certification 

14:44 — Georgia Tech: vertical lift research and rural STEM outreach 

24:58 — Augusta Regional Airport Fire Chief: public safety and AAM risk 

25:41 — Professor Marilyn Smith: collaboration, Georgia Tech & summer camps 29:21 — Diane Johnston, Augusta Regional Airport: seven years of building the room 

31:40 — Nadine Auda, Rune Aero: cargo aviation and the Georgia AAM ecosystem

And for previous episodes of the Ways We Move on your favorite podcast platforms, see: 

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Ken Karklin, CEO of Pivotal, returns to The Ways We Move for a Season 2 check-in — and this time he brings Matt Hubert, VP of Quality, along for the conversation. 

A year has passed since our first episode together, and the progress is remarkable.

We dig into Pivotal's latest milestones: 9,000+ total flights, 2,300 human-piloted across 55 trained pilots, and the story of Tim Blum — a customer whose single Black Fly airframe became the first eVTOL ever to log 1,000 flights. Ken shares what the battery data actually shows after 500 cycles, what AS9100D certification means for production readiness, and why Pivotal was the first pure-play AAM company in North America to earn it.

Matt walks us through what quality really means in a startup building aircraft — from supplier development to predictive maintenance using real-time flight telemetry from every aircraft in the field.

We also cover the Helix flight test campaign, the path to pilot production, the man who set up Tesla's Model S line who is now setting up theirs, and Pivotal's expanding footprint in public safety and defense. Ken makes a bold prediction: 2026 will be the year one of their aircraft saves a life.

Plus: why gamers make the best eVTOL pilots, the Oregon customer air traffic controllers nicknamed "The Martian," and what it really takes to build a startup in advanced air mobility.

If you are in hurry to access the podcast, you can find them 48 hours earlier on our Patreon site along deep dives and more. https://www.patreon.com/c/TheWaysWeMove

Chapters:

• 00:00 Introduction & Season 2 Update
• 02:53 Meet Ken Karklin & Matt Hubert
• 05:24 Pivotal By The Numbers: Flights, Pilots & Milestones
• 08:36 The Helix: Flight Testing & Production Path
• 10:37 Tim Blum: The World's Most-Flown eVTOL Owner
• 15:42 Real-World Use Cases & Customer Stories
• 18:16 Who Learns to Fly Fastest (Hint: Gamers)
• 21:47 Life Inside a Pivotal Startup
• 27:22 Quality, Telemetry & Predictive Maintenance
• 31:19 2026 Predictions: Public Safety & Defense
• 35:34 FAA, Certification & The Road Ahead
• 37:44 Battery Deep-Dive & Charging
• 43:35 What Gets You Out of Bed?
• 47:11 Global Expansion: Europe, NZ & Beyond
• 50:22 Final Takeaways

For previous episodes of The Ways We Move on your favorite podcast platforms, see:

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As the industry matures into its 2026 reality, the focus has long shifted from visionary concepts to the high-stakes reality of safety, training, and human factors. 

In this episode, host Nicolas Zart welcomes Anna Golendukhina, a researcher at Embry-Riddle’s SEARCH Lab and flight instructor qualifier at Flight Safety International, to bridge the gap between aviation’s legacy and its electric future.

The "Gold Standard" of eVTOL design is converging, but can the pilots keep up? Anna shares exclusive empirical research on how private and commercial pilots perceive the transition into these highly automated, over-actuated aircraft.

Key Insights from this Episode:

• The Skill Transferability Paradox: Why CFIs and veteran pilots view eVTOL maneuvers with a "moderate" sense of transferability—and why 95% of pilots still feel a uniform sense of uncertainty regarding precision urban landings.
• Automation vs. Autonomy: A look at the "Monitoring Dilemma" and why more experienced pilots are actually more enthusiastic about higher levels of automation as a safety net.
• The "Physics Trap": How pilots must adapt to aircraft that function as a "third thing"—a hybrid of fixed-wing efficiency and VTOL hovering capabilities without traditional rudder controls.
• Training Gaps: Identifying the specific deliberate training required to move pilots from traditional cockpits to the high-density UAM corridors of the near future.

Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/psJzQbBObjU

Chapters:

1. Introduction to the Podcast
   0:01 - 0:24 (Take 2)
   Nicolas introduces the podcast and the guest, Anna Golendukhina.
2. Anna's Background and Experience
   0:01 - 0:38 (Take 3)
   Anna shares her professional background and current role.
3. Research and Inspiration
   0:38 - 1:36 (Take 3)
   Anna discusses her research focus and what inspired her to pursue it.
4. Challenges in Advanced Air Mobility
   1:36 - 2:13 (Take 3)
   Discussion on the challenges faced by pilots in transitioning to eVTOL operations.
5. Pilot Training and Skills Transferability
   2:13 - 3:04 (Take 3)
   Insights into pilot training and the transferability of skills to new technologies.
6. Automation in Aviation
   3:04 - 4:10 (Take 3)
   The role of automation in aviation and its impact on pilot responsibilities.
7. Future of eVTOL and Pilot Adaptation
   4:10 - 5:20 (Take 3)
   Discussion on the future of eVTOL and how pilots can adapt to these changes.
8. Anna's Motivation and Philosophy
   5:20 - 6:18 (Take 3)
   Anna shares her personal motivation and philosophical outlook on her work.
9. Closing Thoughts and Future Outlook
   6:18 - 7:15 (Take 3)
   Final thoughts on the future of advanced air mobility and the role of pilots.
10. Farewell and Gratitude
    7:15 - 8:00 (Take 3)
    Nicolas and Anna express gratitude and share closing remarks.

Whether you are a fixed-wing veteran or a rotorcraft specialist, this episode is a "Summary for Professionals" on the human architecture required to make AAM a reality.

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