Jesus vs. the Chabad Rebbe: The Messiah? (Notes based on a discussion by Chabad Rabbi Dovid Vigler). JESUS AFTER TEMPTATION, HE BEGINS HIS MINISTRY.
Matthew talks of Isaiah 9:1 fulfillment. Mark talks generally of fulfillment. Luke talks Luke 3:23- lineage of Joseph to David, Judah, & Isaac. (Bloodline?). John goes straight to disciple choices.
Chabad tunnel at 770 & Messiah by Rabbi Dovid Vigler (the discussion about Jesus vs Chabad Rebbe). Link: https://www.youtube.com/live/2At2bus2uQU?si=nrXj4zDgp5wsOfK3
(Time stamp 15:40 about Mashiach- Messiah).
16:04: “Can the Rebbe be Mashiach?”- someone mentions Jesus and the lineage of David, another person mentions Brazilians being of the line of David, then the conversation gets reeled in to focus on the initial question to return to an intellectual conversation.
17:55: “Maimonides [Rambam] gives us a list of what it takes to qualify to be the Mashiach”- they review the list. Reference can be found in “Mishneh Torah » Hilkhot Melakhim Umilchamoteihem” (Link- see chapters 11&12 of contents: https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah,_Kings_and_Wars?tab=contents) Composed in: c.1176 – c.1178 CE/ AD
Ch. 11- https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Kings_and_Wars.11.1?lang=bi
Needs to be from the House of David- Christian New Testament Luke 3:23 states Joseph’s lineage was from the House of David, but the Jewish argument is that if Jesus was born of God he is not of Joseph’s or David’s lineage.
~22:10: No matrilineal approach to tribal affiliations in Jewish tradition. And according to Jewish thought, Jesus did not observe Torah which the Messiah must do.
~22:47: discussion for considering 770 Chabad Rebbe as Messiah.
~23:00: descendant of king David, occupies self in Torah mitzvot, “prevail upon all of Israel to walk in the ways of Torah and strengthen its breaches,” and will fight the battles of God- the rabbi states nearly 40% of American Jews have Chabad affiliations.
~26:25: discussion that the Rebbe died. Based on a different rabbi’s book (Middle Ages Prussian Rabbi Yehonatan IvaSchitz) book “Forests of Honey”- he states in his book they were not truthful to Christians to “push them off with straw” when they asked why Jesus could not be the Messiah; Jews then would respond that because Jesus had died, he could not be the Messiah. Although there were a Christian’s who believed this response, according to Talmud- in tractate Sanhedrin 98a. According to rabbi video speaker there is to be one potentially qualified person of the lineage of David per generation (either living or dead can qualify).
~32:26: Ch. 12- https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Kings_and_Wars.12.1?lang=bi
“Do not presume that in the Messianic age any facet of the world's nature will change or there will be innovations in the work of creation. Rather, the world will continue according to its pattern.” (Chapter 12 from the Chabad site: https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1188357/jewish/Melachim-uMilchamot-Chapter-12.htm).
MY QUESTIONS: Why is Rambam/ Maimonides considered the most important reference? Can his view be skewed as he wrote after the time of Jesus. Are there other views from before the time of Jesus that might not directly reference some of Jesus’ qualities (such as the miracles and resurrecting the dead, etc). But just because Jesus did do these things, I don’t believe this should disqualify him as it is only additional detail.
Couldn’t Jesus still be of David’s lineage? A) God could have made it so and could have created Jesus’ DNA as such.
Who stated that there is no matrilineal approach when considering tribal affiliation to the lineage of David? Where was this said? And in what year/ time period of history?
If there were lies provided as responses (based on historical tribunals) could there be other traditional lies in the later interpretations of Messiah’s qualifications (such as by the Rambam)?
