Thinking Deeply, Differently & Dangerously

What if love isn't the opposite of strength, commercial success or ambition — but the missing ingredient in how we lead?

What if the most radical thing a leader could do is bring more humanity into the room?

My guest today is Zoe Holland MBE, whose extraordinary journey has taken her from growing up on a council estate in Nottingham to the forefront of clinical negligence law, business leadership and the boardroom.

Along the way, she has challenged convention, trusted her inner voice, navigated the realities of work and family, and discovered that putting people first need not come at the expense of commercial success.

Today, as Chief Commercial Officer at Fletchers, Zoe is championing a more authentic, mature and compassionate form of leadership. She has also helped send 110,000 handmade hearts around the world — a beautiful expression of the belief that love must be more than something we feel. It must be something we do.

And now, through her work and her exploration of interfaith ministry, Zoe is asking us to think more deeply about what it means to live and lead with love — through our thoughts, our words and our deeds, even when the world around us seems to be pulling in the opposite direction.

So, in a world that often rewards power over compassion, certainty over curiosity and profit over people, can we lead differently? Can we make space for peace, grace and reverence without losing our courage or our edge?

And what might happen if we dared to put love at the very heart of leadership?

Zoe Holland MBE

Zoe Holland MBE is a business leader, lawyer and advocate for a more human approach to leadership. From growing up on a council estate in Nottingham to working at the forefront of clinical negligence law, building her own consultancy business and becoming Chief Commercial Officer at Fletchers, Zoe has consistently challenged convention and followed her inner voice.

A champion of authentic, courageous and compassionate leadership, she believes that commercial success and deep humanity belong together. Her work includes creating leadership programmes rooted in authenticity and care, alongside a remarkable global initiative that has delivered 110,000 handmade hearts around the world.

Now training to become an interfaith minister, Zoe is exploring how love can become more than an ideal: a daily practice expressed through our thoughts, words and deeds.

Her message is both simple and radical: love is not a weakness in leadership. It may be the very thing leadership needs most.

Do you ever think no one else thinks the way you do? 

The biggest lie we’re sold is that we have to blend in to succeed – to think and do everything the same way as the next person. 

But what if that isn’t true and we could all think deeply, differently and dangerously? 

In this Podcast, I am speaking to Bennett Borden, founder and CEO of Clarion AI Partners, an integrated law, technology, and strategy firm helping organisations deliver AI the right way. We discuss how to think differently about AI systems that create real value while managing risk. 

This is such an important topic - and we hope that everyone will listen and take something away from our conversation.  

About Bennett Borden 

Bennett B. Borden is Founder and CEO of Clarion AI Partners, an integrated law, technology, and strategy firm helping organizations deliver AI the right way. He is a globally recognized authority on the legal, technological, and business implications of artificial intelligence, advising leading enterprises and AI developers on how to deploy AI systems that create real value while managing risk. 

Before founding Clarion, Bennett served as Partner and Chief Data Scientist at the global law firm DLA Piper, where he helped shape AI strategy for multinational organizations. Today, he works with companies and policymakers to translate complex AI developments into practical insights leaders can act on.

How do children build the confidence to have conversations that they may find challenging – ordering food in a restaurant, describing what’s wrong at the doctors?

How can parents and indeed all of us support children in speaking up in situations where it’s important for them to have a voice?

In today’s Podcast, I am speaking with Anthony Stears who is known as the Telephone Assassin, about how in the more technology driven world of today, we can encourage and help children to build Conversational Confidence so that they can advocate for themselves in all kinds of situations instead of staying silent or relying on adults to speak for them.

This is such an important topic we hope that everyone will listen and take something away from our conversation so that we all have more conversations with our children and that they in turn build conversational confidence.

About Anthony Stears

A published author and international speaker, Anthony Stears uses training to accelerate learning by bringing people back to powerful, human to human communication. He has fast become the go to person for telephone engagement,

helping companies improve both sales and service through real conversations—while building the confidence people need to speak clearly, calmly, and with purpose.

Anthony Stears is better known as “The Telephone Assassin” and he’s on a mission to get businesses talking again—replacing digital avoidance with confident, authentic conversations. As a conversational strategist, he helps clients get in front of more of their ideal customers and strengthen relationships with existing ones by showing them how to be more human, and ‘help their customers to buy’. Having made calls for a huge range of businesses, and while acting as sales or marketing manager for five companies simultaneously, Anthony realised that many others needed the confidence and structure to communicate effectively for themselves. Working closely with an NLP master trainer, he began teaching people to “fish for themselves,” combining his natural communication style with practical confidence building techniques—leading to the creation of the Telemarketing Masterclass.

Discovering just how many people feel uncomfortable or lack confidence when it comes to direct conversation—whether calling a prospect, delivering difficult news, or handling awkward customer situations—Anthony went on to develop a series of mini masterclasses designed to help people overcome fear, avoid rejection, get past gatekeepers, perfect their pitch, and build rapport fast by sounding confident rather than rehearsed.

Working with business owners, sales teams, account managers, and customer service departments, Anthony provides clear conversational frameworks, confidence boosting techniques for making calls, strong prospect management habits, practical closing approaches, and the often overlooked art of a meaningful follow up call. His focus is on helping people take control of their conversations and trust their ability to handle whatever comes next.

Engaging customers and prospects in the right, human way creates value for everyone involved—opening more opportunities and converting more enquiries into genuine relationships and sales. Anthony doesn’t teach people how to sell; he shows them how to help customers buy, with confidence, through conversation that connects.

Contact Anthony

To subscribe to the BAREFOOT MEDIATOR PODCAST series - please visit JaneGunn.co.uk/podcasts If you would like to download a COPY OF MY BOOK together with a series of FREE VIDEOS for managing in times of Change, Challenge and Crisis – please go to JaneGunn.co.uk/Video

How do discover or rediscover that health is more than medical diagnosis and drugs?

How can we understand what our bodies but also our minds and souls need to be healthy?

What role can connection and community play in preventing illness and breakdown and why are these so often missing in modern life?

On this podcast, I am speaking with Atul Bansal who is an emergency care consultant about his experience of working in a busy A&E department about the patterns he has observed in patients who do not fit neatly into a medical diagnosis and treatment.

We discuss:

· How true health can be broken down into 3 pillars of mind, body and soul

· How the autonomic nervous system and the flow of neurotransmitters and endorphins can create or exacerbate physical symptoms

· How recreating human connection and community together with understanding of and accountability for our own health is the key to less sickness and fewer emergency care visits

About Dr Atul Bansal

Dr Atul Bansal is an Emergency Medicine Consultant at Frimley Health NHS Foundation Trust, trained in the London and Oxford deaneries, with over 23 years of experience working in the NHS. He has extensive expertise in the assessment and management of acutely unwell and injured patients in high-pressure emergency care settings. Dr Bansal is committed to delivering safe, high-quality patient care and is involved as Chief Scientific Advisor to The New Inning (www.TheNewInning.com), a community project informed by learning from emergency care and focused on preventing health emergencies through a proactive approach that addresses health across three integrated pillars.

To subscribe to the BAREFOOT MEDIATOR PODCAST series - please visit JaneGunn.co.uk/podcasts If you would like to download a COPY OF MY BOOK together with a series of FREE VIDEOS for managing in times of Change, Challenge and Crisis – please go to JaneGunn.co.uk/Video

How can we create our own life choices despite the circumstances and environment we find ourselves living in?

How can we envision how we want to live our life rather than following other people’s directions and agenda?

How can we connect the dots rather than collect the dots by thinking for ourselves and not being afraid to speak up and be a disruptor?

In today’s podcast, I am speaking with Andrew Pearce who is a psychotherapist and family consultant helping people build resilience and find balance in their lives.

We discuss:

· How to take personal responsibility for your own choices and decisions

· The importance of stepping outside media and other narratives and thinking for ourselves

· Why hope for the future is a choice independent of circumstance

About Andrew Pearce

Andrew Pearce is a UKCP Registered Psychotherapist and Clinical Supervisor with over 20 years experience and a Certified Trainer of NLP. His Practice includes supporting individuals and couples with a wide range of issues.

He also works as a personal and professional development coach often with senior managers & executives. He is a Director/Owner at Durham Therapy Centre & also Moor Chambers.

Andrew worked for M&S for 15 years in a range of HR roles in the UK and Irish Republic, latterly in the area of management development for the top 50 managers in the Northeast, often supporting managers through organisational change.

Prior to that he was a Commissioned Officer in the Royal Navy.

With his broad spectrum of professional expertise and understanding, he works in a wide variety of areas (including public & private sectors), particularly facilitating change with individuals & groups.

He is actively involved in Mediation, Critical Incident support and Collaborative Family Law and has experience with CPS RASSO teams.

Areas of particular interest include; the impact of change, building resilience, conflict resolution and working to destigmatise mental health and minimise it’s impact.

He has been interviewed on local & national radio and television on the subject of Life Balance and spoken at Oxford University & Newcastle MBA School about the impact of ambiguity & uncertainty on team dynamics and enabling resilience.

His aim is to increase choice for individuals and teams who want the freedom to be authentically who they really are.

He is married to Jane, a Psychotherapist who specialises in working with children & young people & they have 4 adult children. Andrew& Jane live & work at a smallholding on top of the North Pennines beyond the back of beyond & just this side of chaos!

To subscribe to the BAREFOOT MEDIATOR PODCAST series - please visit JaneGunn.co.uk/podcasts

If you would like to download a COPY OF MY BOOK together with a series of FREE VIDEOS for managing in times of Change, Challenge and Crisis – please go to JaneGunn.co.uk/Video

Why do we eat what we do?

Why is there so much conflict around the subject of food?

How can we reach a better understanding of food and nutrition and make the right choices for us and our families?

In today’s episode, I am speaking with Zoe Harcombe who is a public health researcher, author and speaker on matters of public health and nutrition.

We discuss:

• Some of the conflicts that shape our choices and how to take back control

• Why we should question everything, and especially nutritional guidelines influenced by the food industry

• How to enjoy good food without becoming obsessed

More about Zoe Harcombe

Dr. Zoë Harcombe is a Cambridge University graduate with a BA and MA in economics/maths and a long-term member of Mensa (the high IQ society). Zoë enjoyed a successful career in blue chip organisations before leaving corporate life in 2008 to pursue her passion – diet and health. Her early career involved international roles in management consultancy, manufacturing and marketing in global organisations – from FMCG (fast moving consumer goods) to telecoms – before specialising in Human Resources. She has worked for big food (Mars Inc.) and big pharma (GSK) and so knows these industries from within. At the peak of her career, Zoë was Vice President for Human Resources for Europe, Middle East and Africa.

Three of Zoë’s books were published while she was ‘Head of People.’ These were Why do you overeat?(2004), Stop Counting Calories & Start Losing Weight (2008), and a real food recipe book (2008). At the end of 2008, Zoë left employment to research obesity full time. This culminated in the publication in 2010 of The Obesity Epidemic: What caused it? How can we stop it? (in full here). This was followed by The Harcombe Diet for men in 2011 – a short read for those who don’t like diet books.

Zoë returned to full time education in 2012 to complete a PhD in public health nutrition (awarded March 2016). Her thesis was a systematic review and meta-analysis of the evidence for the introduction of dietary fat restrictions. The full document is available to site members here. She has over 20 peer-reviewed publications challenging government dietary guidelines (listed here). The first paper from her PhD was the 64th most impactful paper in any discipline in 2015.

Hodder & Stoughton published The Harcombe Diet: 3-step plan in 2014 and Short Books published The Diet Fix in 2019. Several real food recipe books have been published along the way.

Zoë was an independent board member for Cardiff Metropolitan University between 2006 and 2012. She was also an independent board member for the Welsh National Health Service between 2009 and 2012.

Zoë has appeared regularly on radio and TV, featuring on Sky News; Steve Wright in the Afternoon; Radio 4’s The Food Programme; ITV Tonight and BBC Newsnight, as well as Fox News in the US. She has spoken at conferences worldwide, from Norway to South Africa and from California to Saudi Arabia. She has also written for numerous magazines and most national newspapers.

For over 15 years, Zoë has been writing a weekly diet and health blog. This dissects an academic article, busting myths about red meat, fibre, fruit, calories, cholesterol and fat etc. This ‘Monday note’ has also exposed many conflicts of interest in the public health arena.

Dr Zoë Harcombe, PhD

https://www.zoeharcombe.com

https://twitter.com/zoeharcombe

To subscribe to the BAREFOOT MEDIATOR PODCAST series - please visit JaneGunn.co.uk/podcasts If you would like to download a COPY OF MY BOOK together with a series of FREE VIDEOS for managing in times of Change, Challenge and Crisis – please go to JaneGunn.co.uk/Video

How do we deal with uncertainty in a world that offers us complexity, crisis and challenge?

What influences our beliefs and how do they guide our behaviour?

In today’s episode, I am speaking with Peter Milligan who is a professional speaker and business psychologist with 3 decades of experience in developing business leaders and teams, helping them to have less stress, more joy and greater effectiveness at work.

We discuss:

· How we form our beliefs from believing in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus to ideas and opinions on matters that impact our lives in adulthood

· The importance of curiosity and exploring alternative narratives and opposing viewpoints

· What we can do to navigate the complex landscape of the modern world that does not offer the certainty that our brains crave

More about Peter Milligan:

Peter is a professional speaker and business psychologist with 3 decades of experience in developing business leaders and teams, helping them to have less stress, more joy and greater effectiveness at work.

Originally an IT professional, Peter retrained in psychology and joined the management team of a leading Australian HR consulting firm.

After moving to the UK in 2000, he became a director of Europe's largest executive coaching firm before establishing his own business in 2005.

Peter has worked with leaders at all levels across a wide range of industries.

His clients have ranged from professional services firms, SMEs and family businesses to larger corporates including Australia Post, AXA, BP, Credit Suisse, Kerry Foods, Novartis, Rolls-Royce, Rydges Hotels, University of Oxford, Vodafone, and WHSmith.

To subscribe to the BAREFOOT MEDIATOR PODCAST series - please visit JaneGunn.co.uk/podcasts If you would like to download a COPY OF MY BOOK together with a series of FREE VIDEOS for managing in times of Change, Challenge and Crisis – please go to JaneGunn.co.uk/Video

What impact does mindset and happiness have on learning?

How can children learn about collaboration and empathy?

Why are play and finding joy in life so important for children and indeed for all of us at this time?

In today’s episode, I am speaking with Daisy Fretwell, who is a solicitor, entrepreneur, education hub founder and founder of a micro-school project

We discuss:

· The importance of focusing on raising the next generation with the right mindset and skills to thrive at school and in the wider world

· The role of conflict resolution skills and techniques learnt and applied at an early age to foster good relationships with all

· How micro or tiny schools of pupils working on a project rather than a fixed syllabus basis can create the right foundation for motivated learning

· How each of us can reconnect to joy to survive and thrive in disruptive times?

More about Daisy Fretwell

I'm a Fresh Start Coach, Education Hub Founder, Solicitor and Entrepreneur with a particular interest in the huge impact of empathy and mindset on success and happiness. I'm keen to connect with those interested in facilitating self-directed education and how to foster the intrinsic motivation and happiness of the next generation. I'm a passionate advocate of autonomy, empathy and democratic values in the lives of children and am in the early stages of a project to build a progressive micro-school in the Northern Home Counties, which will be due to open in January 2026 for up to 24 lucky children! At its core will be nonviolent communication / life-enriching education values espoused by Marshall Rosenberg, and plenty of space for play and self-directed learning. I'm extremely keen to connect with others in the NVC / Democratic education space, particularly teachers and administrators keen to be involved either full, or part-time.

CONTACT

Website: https://www.cultivatelearning.org.uk/

Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/daisyfretwell

To subscribe to the BAREFOOT MEDIATOR PODCAST series - please visit JaneGunn.co.uk/podcasts

If you would like to download a COPY OF MY BOOK together with a series of FREE VIDEOS for managing in times of Change, Challenge and Crisis – please go to JaneGunn.co.uk/Video

Are there patterns that define corporate scandals?

What are the 9 toxic building blocks that are present when such scandals unfold?

How can leaders and followers alike help to build ethically robust organisations?

In today’s episode, I am speaking with Guido Palazzo who is a professor of business ethics at the University of Lausanne and the author of Dark Patterns – the hidden dynamics of corporate scandals

We discuss:

· How all of us are vulnerable to getting caught up in these Dark Patterns?

· Why the ability to speak up and for leaders to listen are so important

· Why having a Plan B is important in being able to break rank and undermine the Dark Pattern

· in the world instead of a top-down world led by the love of money and power

More about Guido Palazzo:

Guido Palazzo is Professor of Business Ethics at the University of Lausanne in Switzerland. His research is focused on unethical behavior in organization . Guido has trained leadership teams and boards of directors of numerous companies in Europe, Asia and the USA in ethics.

CONTACT

Website: https://guidopalazzo.com/

Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/guidopalazzo

To subscribe to the BAREFOOT MEDIATOR PODCAST series - please visit JaneGunn.co.uk/podcasts

If you would like to download a COPY OF MY BOOK together with a series of FREE VIDEOS for managing in times of Change, Challenge and Crisis – please go to JaneGunn.co.uk/Video

What is creativity?

Does it simply mean we are good at drawing, painting or music?

Or does it represent something else that all of us can tap into to discover our true potential?

How can you find that spark of creativity in yourself and others that helps us to think differently about the world and the problems and challenges we all face?

In today’s episode, I am speaking with Sarah Cressall OBE who helps to bring creativity into education, entertainment and business

We discuss:

· Why we have such a narrow view of what creativity is and how it can enhance our lives

· What each of us can do to spark more creativity in a world that is becoming increasingly led by AI and instant solutions.

More about Sarah Cressall:

Sarah Cressall OBE is the Founder and CEO of The Creation Station – the UK’s most recommended activity company, with an outstanding 95% satisfaction rating from its franchise partners. A multi-award-winning entrepreneur, bestselling author, and keynote speaker, Sarah was awarded an OBE for services to creativity in education, entertainment, and business. Her mission is to inspire imagination and nurture potential.

Since 2002, Sarah, together with her fabulous team of Creation Station franchise partners, has inspired over 2.6 million children and adults through arts and crafts classes, clubs, camps, parties, and events across the UK and beyond. At a time when creativity is too often squeezed out of schools, workplaces, and communities, Sarah provides the solution: fun, accessible, and meaningful experiences that unlock potential, build confidence, and bring people together. By partnering with global brands and grassroots communities alike, she’s proving that

creativity isn’t a “nice to have” — it’s essential for growth, learning, and wellbeing.

Passionate about making an impact, Sarah turns vision into action, creating meaningful opportunities that deliver real results.

She lives in Exmouth, Devon with her husband and their dog, and loves spending time with their three adventurous and wonderful sons whenever they return from their travels. Sarah is known for her playful approach to life – whether that’s zooming on a wobble board, enjoying sardines every day, gifting herself two hours of early-morning ‘light up’ time, indulging in great chocolate and food, or cherishing fun times with family and friends.

CONTACT www.sarahcressall.com

LinkedIn: Sarah Cressall OBE

Instagram: sarahcressallobe

Facebook: sarahcressallobe

TikTok: sarahcressallobe

To subscribe to the BAREFOOT MEDIATOR PODCAST series - please visit JaneGunn.co.uk/podcasts

If you would like to download a COPY OF MY BOOK together with a series of FREE VIDEOS for managing in times of Change, Challenge and Crisis – please go to JaneGunn.co.uk/Video