Third Option Leadership Podcast

Third Option Leadership Podcast

By Middle Way InstituteSociety & CultureBusinessEducationSelf-ImprovementManagement
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Third Option Leadership Podcast episodes

  • Episode 6: The Leadership Shift No One Prepares You For with Tanya Dempsey
    What happens when the skills that made you successful stop being enough?
    In this candid conversation, Tanya Dempsey, Co-CEO of CSG Advisors, shares her journey from being a highly driven, results-focused leader to discovering that the next level of leadership required an entirely different set of skills. Along the way, she learned hard lessons about delegation, trust, emotional intelligence, communication, and the power of curiosity.
    Tanya opens up about the mindset shifts that transformed her leadership, including learning to let go of control, asking better questions, investing in people instead of simply driving outcomes, and realizing that leadership is about building capacity in othersβ€”not proving your own competence.
    Whether you're a business leader, team manager, pastor, entrepreneur, or simply someone trying to grow professionally, this conversation offers practical wisdom and honest insights about what it takes to move from doing the work to leading the people who do it.
    If you've ever felt like leadership is harder than you expected, this episode will remind you that growth is part of the journeyβ€”and that the best leaders never stop learning.
    Key Takeaway
    The skills that get you promoted aren't the skills that help you scale.
    Great leadership begins when you stop trying to do everything yourself and start developing the people around you.
    37 min
  • Episode 5: Scaling Your Leadership
    π—ͺ𝗛𝗔𝗧 π—–π—›π—”π—‘π—šπ—˜π—¦ π—ͺπ—›π—˜π—‘ 𝗬𝗒𝗨 π— π—’π—©π—˜ 𝗙π—₯𝗒𝗠 π— π—”π—‘π—”π—šπ—œπ—‘π—š π—§π—”π—¦π—žπ—¦ 𝗧𝗒 π—Ÿπ—˜π—”π——π—œπ—‘π—š 𝗔𝗑 𝗒π—₯π—šπ—”π—‘π—œπ—­π—”π—§π—œπ—’π—‘?
    In this episode of The Third Option Leadership Podcast, Bobby McGraw sits down with coaches Dean Harbry and Janalee Rainwater to unpack Stage 3 of the Leadership Lifecycle: Corporate Leadershipβ€”the transition from manager to senior leader.
    At this level, leadership is no longer about personal productivity. It’s about judgment, influence, and building systems that move the organization forward without your constant involvement.
    You’ll learn how to think like a CEO, create leadership leverage, and develop leaders who can operate without you as the bottleneck.
    If you’re leading leadersβ€”or preparing toβ€”this episode will help you shift from doing more… to leading better.
    π—ͺ𝗛𝗔𝗧 π—¬π—’π—¨β€™π—Ÿπ—Ÿ π—Ÿπ—˜π—”π—₯𝗑
    Why senior leaders are paid for judgment and influence, not output
    How to develop system-wide thinking across your organization
    What managerial leverage isβ€”and how to build it
    Why great leaders push thinking down, not pull problems up
    The mindset shift required to move from control β†’ cultivation
    π—žπ—˜π—¬ π—§π—”π—žπ—˜π—”π—ͺ𝗔𝗬𝗦
    1. π—§π—›π—œπ—‘π—ž π—Ÿπ—œπ—žπ—˜ 𝗔 π—–π—˜π—’
    Senior leadership requires a new vantage point.
    You must see how every part of the organization connectsβ€”and where breakdowns impact the whole.
    πŸ“Ί β€œYou’re no longer responsible for doing the workβ€”you’re responsible for how the work works.”
    2. π—•π—¨π—œπ—Ÿπ—— π— π—”π—‘π—”π—šπ—˜π—₯π—œπ—”π—Ÿ π—Ÿπ—˜π—©π—˜π—₯π—”π—šπ—˜
    You’re no longer leading one-to-oneβ€”you’re leading one-to-many.
    Your job is to:
    Multiply your thinking
    Scale your culture
    Equip leaders to lead without you
    πŸ“Ί β€œIf your leadership doesn’t scale through others, it eventually stalls with you.”
    3. 𝗣𝗨𝗦𝗛 π—§π—›π—œπ—‘π—žπ—œπ—‘π—š 𝗗𝗒π—ͺ𝗑
    If you’re still solving every problem, you’ve become the bottleneck.
    Great leaders:
    Ask better questions
    Develop decision-makers
    Let go of being the hero
    πŸ“Ί β€œThe higher you go, the less you should doβ€”and the more you should develop.”
    π—§π—›π—˜ π—•π—œπ—š π—¦π—›π—œπ—™π—§ (π—¦π—§π—”π—šπ—˜ 3 π—Ÿπ—˜π—”π——π—˜π—₯π—¦π—›π—œπ—£)
    Moving into senior leadership means transitioning from:
    Doing β†’ Designing systems
    Managing tasks β†’ Leading leaders
    Being efficient β†’ Being effective on the right things
    Solving problems β†’ Developing problem-solvers
    𝗣π—₯π—”π—–π—§π—œπ—–π—”π—Ÿ π—”π—£π—£π—Ÿπ—œπ—–π—”π—§π—œπ—’π—‘
    One simple place to start:
    Identify your top 3 responsibilities as a leader
    Audit your calendarβ€”what doesn’t belong there?
    Equip your team to make decisions without your constant approval
    Small shifts β†’ scalable leadership.
    π—₯π—˜π—¦π—’π—¨π—₯π—–π—˜π—¦ & π—‘π—˜π—«π—§ π—¦π—§π—˜π—£π—¦
    If you want help applying these principles:
    Join our free monthly Leadership as a Profession call
    Explore executive coaching or team workshops
    Access tools and resources at:
    πŸ‘‰ TheMiddleWayInstitute.com
    π—–π—’π— π—œπ—‘π—š π—‘π—˜π—«π—§ π—˜π—£π—œπ—¦π—’π——π—˜
    The Sponsor Stage β€” The Final Step Most Leaders Miss
    Learn how to:
    Develop your successor
    Step out of the spotlight
    Leave a lasting leadership legacy
    π—–π—Ÿπ—’π—¦π—œπ—‘π—š π—§π—›π—’π—¨π—šπ—›π—§
    πŸ“Ί β€œLeadership isn’t about doing it allβ€”it’s about building people who can do it without you.”
    0 min
  • Episode 4: Delegate to Elevate
    In this episode of The Third Option of Leadership Podcast, Bobby sits down with Dean Harbry and Janalee Rainwater to unpack one of the most difficultβ€”and most definingβ€”shifts in a leader’s journey: the move from doing the work to developing the people who do the work.
    Drawing from the Middle Way Institute’s leadership lifecycle and the core principles of β€œleadership as a profession,” the team explores why so many managers feel overwhelmed, burned out, and stuck. The reason? They’ve been promoted but haven’t made the mindset shift required to lead.
    Listeners will learn how to:
    β€’ See delegation as a developmental tool, not a dumping ground.
    β€’ Use managerial questioning to push thinking down the ladder.
    β€’ Redefine success as building the capacity of others rather than doing more yourself.
    β€’ Apply practical frameworks like the Freedom Scale to build judgment, independence, and confidence in their teams.
    β€’ Take the first β€œbaby steps” toward multiplying their leadership rather than bottlenecking it.
    This episode gives leaders permission to let go of the myth that β€œI must do everything myself” and embrace a professional mindset that says, β€œMy success is measured by who I developβ€”not what I personally accomplish.”
    18 min
  • Episode 3: The Map for Growing Your Leadership

    Episode Theme:

    A practical, visual roadmap showing the four stages of leadership development β€” and what every leader must learn at each stage to grow without burning out.

    πŸ”₯ Key Idea

    Where you are in your leadership journey determines what you need next. Without a map, leaders feel overwhelmed, stuck, or burned out. With a map, they grow with intention.

    🧭 The Four Stages of Leadership

    1. Individual Contributor (The Doer)

    Everyone starts here β€” even PhDs.

    Known for technical skill and task completion.

    Where potential future leaders are spotted, not developed.

    Focus: Vocational effort.

    The Trap: Believing excellence in technical work automatically means you’re ready to lead.

    2. Manager / Director (The Organizer)

    Transition from doing work to leading people.

    Requires an entirely new skill set:

    Delegation as development

    Managerial questioning

    Clear role definitions

    Effective meeting management

    Healthy accountability without micromanaging

    Must begin tapering down vocational tasks.

    The Trap: Trying to lead and keep all your old technical work β†’ burnout.

    3. Corporate Leader (The Leader of Leaders)

    You no longer manage individual contributors β€” you manage managers.

    Leadership influence becomes more important than technical ability.

    Skills:

    Managerial leverage

    Scaling leadership

    Building leadership capability in others

    Letting go of personal β€œvalue” tied to doing the work

    Vocational tasks should now be minimal.

    The Trap: Staying attached to technical work because it feels like your value.

    4. Sponsor / Successor Developer (The Legacy Builder)

    Final stage: preparing others to take the baton.

    Transition from external-facing to internal-facing work.

    Focus:

    Succession-style delegation

    Documenting hard skills & soft skills

    Transferring relationships, judgment, values, tone

    Intentional leadership exit or transition.

    The Trap: Difficulty letting go of control.

    πŸ“Œ Coaching Example

    Janalee shares a story of a leader drowning in responsibilities because she kept her old vocational tasks while leading a team. Through delegating, setting freedom levels, and clarifying roles, she got her life back β€” evenings restored, team strengthened.

    πŸ’‘ Big Takeaways

    Leadership is not intuitive β€” it requires new skills at each stage.

    Most leaders don’t fail because they’re lazy. They fail because no one gave them a map.

    You can’t scale leadership if you stay attached to technical work.

    Your leadership identity must rise as your vocational identity decreases.

    Legacy comes from intentional handoff, not accidental replacement.

    Leaders shouldn’t feel stuck or alone β€” support exists.

    πŸ”œ Next Episode Tease

    The most common leadership trap: the shift from Doer to Developer β€” and why delegation is one of the most powerful leadership tools on the planet.

    πŸ”— Learn More

    Visit MiddleWayInstitute.com to:

    Access leadership tools for all four stages

    Join the free Leadership as a Profession monthly call

    Schedule a complimentary coaching conversation

    🎧 Closeout Line

    Lead with purpose β€” and remember, leadership isn’t just a position; it’s a profession.

    0 min
  • Episode 2: Staying in the Balcony: How to Lead with Emotional Poise
    Leadership often feels like an emotional roller coaster β€” conflict, pressure, and unpredictable people. In this episode of The Third Option Leadership Podcast, host Bobby McGraw sits down with Dean Harbry and Janalee Rainwater from the Middle Way Institute to explore one of the most powerful metaphors in leadership: β€œthe balcony.”
    The balcony represents a leader’s ability to rise above the drama β€” to see clearly, stay grounded, and respond instead of react. Together, the team unpacks:
    β€’ The difference between professional leadership and amateur leadership
    β€’ How to practice emotional poise in real time
    β€’ The Leader’s Recovery Loop β€” what to do when you’ve already been pulled into the drama
    β€’ Practical ways to describe emotions instead of disguising or demonstrating them
    β€’ How to use self-coaching questions to stay curious and compassionate under pressure
    Whether you lead a company, a team, or a family, this episode will help you build the emotional strength and perspective to lead from clarity, not chaos.
    πŸ“ Learn more about the Middle Way Institute and join a free monthly β€œLeadership as a Profession” call at middlewayinstitute.com.
    22 min
  • Episode 1: How to Stay in Control Without Controlling People

    Leadership can feel like walking a tightropeβ€”expectations are high, feedback is rare, and support is often missing. In this first episode ofΒ The Third Option Leadership Podcast, hostΒ Bobby McGrawΒ sits down withΒ Dean HarbryΒ andΒ Janalee RainwaterΒ from theΒ Middle Way InstituteΒ to explore a central leadership tension:

    πŸ‘‰ How do you stay in control without controlling people?

    Together they unpack:

    The difference betweenΒ influence and manipulation

    Why some leaders drift towardΒ abuse (dominating)Β orΒ abandon (detaching)β€”and how to find theΒ Middle Way

    The role ofΒ executive presenceΒ andΒ emotional intelligenceΒ in building trust and consistency

    How to give feedback that’sΒ firm but not harsh, clear but not cold

    The β€œbalcony metaphor” β€” how to step out of the drama and lead with calm objectivity

    Whether you lead a team, a business, or a congregation, this episode will help you regain balance, reduce stress, and grow your influence by leading from the middle.

    πŸ“Β Learn more about Middle Way Institute or join a free Leadership as a Profession call atΒ middlewayinstitute.com.

    17 min

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There’s a better way to lead.