This Sustainable Life

You've heard of The Chicken Soup for the Soul book and series. I had to start this conversation by apologizing that I did the opposite of the advice everyone knows: "don't judge a book by its cover." Something about the title and cover didn't resonate with me. They seemed syrupy and palliative. To my credit, 144 publishers also passed on the book before one published it. The book evolved into a series of hundreds of titles selling hundreds of millions of copies. Still, I only read the book after a mutual friend introduced us.

I can't describe how valuable I found the book. The stories resonated with me, coming at the right time for me, though I wish I'd read it earlier. The stories tell of people facing obstacles and keeping true to themselves, learning about themselves and their values, succeeding by those values. Well, it shares other stories with other themes, but those resonated with me.

Leading on sustainability, I face resistance from every person I work with on something they know is for their own benefit. They push back on living more healthy. They push back on me helping them live by the Golden Rule---a principle of reciprocity at the foundation of, I believe, every culture ever, or, if not, certainly ours. Critics discount my individuality, suggesting that because I am straight, white, male, accomplished, financially stable, and many things that I'm not but that they project onto me based on their preconceived notions, that these things were easy, handed to me, and mean I don't understand challenges of life others do. They treat me as stupid, ignorant, devoid of character, incapable of empathy, condescending, insensitive, devoid of individuality, lacking appreciation, and that all these things result from accidents of my birth.

Chicken Soup for the Soul helped me see not to fight them or waste my time trying to address their prejudices. If they can't see me for who I am, responding to them puts me in their world. I'm working on bigger problems. The ones that will see me for me will come around. The ones that never will, better not to waste my time with them.

I don't know how my explanation of this realization sounds since it hit me in the gut more than intellectually, so it's hard to put into words, but it felt liberating and relieving. Whether my explanation resonates with you or you're curious about similar epiphanies you might experience, I recommend the book and meeting Mark directly through our conversation.

• https://www.markvictorhansen.com

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Listen to the difference between Ash's tone, her level of engagement, and her type of engagement between what she talks about in the first few minutes and about fifteen minutes later. In both cases she shows a high magnitude of emotion. At the beginning she's outraged at stuff outside her life. Later she's passionate about things in her life.

Nearly everyone trying to motivate on the environment focuses on problems elsewhere, trying desperately to convince, cajole, or coerce people to act because they have to or disasters will happen. That extrinsic motivation comes off as bludgeoning, all the more because it always comes from someone who isn't living sustainably.

If you want to motivate someone, connect with intrinsic motivation. What do you care about? What do they care about? I recommend interrupting the pattern in you of getting into cycles of outrage, blame, helplessness, hopelessness, and so on leading to pointing fingers and inaction or pointless action. I recommend interrupting it in others too, though more tactfully.

Instead, recall what you care about and do everything you can for it. Take responsibility for what you love, the opposite of blaming others. If you've bought into the lie that personal change conflicts with systemic change, drop the lie. Don't spread it. Systemic change begins with personal change.

Listen to what engages Ash, what she cares about, and compare with abstract things, however big and bad. What can you connect with?

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Since Bill visited the Hadza in modern-day Tanzania, and I've been learning about cultures that have lived for tens to hundreds of thousands of years, I asked him about how they lived. We talked about their religion, rituals, dancing, singing, fashion, textiles, and culture in general.

Neither of us studies people or cultures, so we're just two people talking about our observations, but it's pretty clear when little boys learn to use bows and arrows around when they learn walking and talking that there are cultural differences we can learn from. As for our culture, the summer after high school, a friend and I rode bikes and camped from Philadelphia to Maine and back, about 1,500 miles over a month. Everyone jokes at least, but many say seriously, that parents would be arrested for letting their kids do that trip today.

So we talk about how to raise kids and what we may be missing. Are young children taught today to handle sharp knives in the kitchen? Bill talked about a Hadza kid carrying around a machete.

In summary, we talk about cultural differences including independence, responsibility, and freedom for youth, which we lack and suppress.

American culture has a lot to learn.

We also talk about Bill's commitment, helping nurse his plant back to life.

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Following up last conversation with Etienne, on Extinction Rebellion's mission, strategy, and tactics, this time we talk about his path from disengagement to becoming a Rebel---that is, playing a significant role in Extinction Rebellion and committing a major part of his life to it.

I don't know many others who have committed and dedicated so much personally, with such dedication and passion, to making sustainability one of their priorities or the priority. Most people seem content to talk about it and get outraged but not act.

Etienne shares about peaceful civil disobedience, pressuring the state, his personal risk, coming to terms with engaging so fully, talking to loved ones about it, and more of the personal side of preparing to act. He knows his history and title lead many people to listen to him more, though it could also lead people who disagree to push back harder. The Olympics and patriotism mean different things to different people. He has stature, but many people may decry him for that reason.

It meant preparing himself, emotionally, socially, intellectually. If you're thinking of acting, you can learn from Etienne's experience.

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Here are the notes I read from for this post:

• Walking through park
• 2017, pandemic
• "Thanks"
• Not thankworthy
• Restored faith / Nobody does / interrupting / construction worker
• Office
• Continual improvement
• Enjoying
• Fat / "Titty twister!" / salt
• "I can't"
• See meth, fentanyl, heroin users
• "I can"
• Forced $20 bill on me
• Had to run but kept talking
• Partly wish I'd gotten contact information

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I indulge in asking Bill about his and his wife Laurie's passions, filmmaker friends, goals, and so on. He talks about passionate peers he's worked with like Michael Pollan and Paul Stamets. The names Tom Brady and Gisele Bundchen come up too, as two other people who appeared in his movies. He explains the value of celebrity.

He shares his storytelling techniques not to make political films or push people, despite covering fields others treat more bluntly. He and Laurie share nuance and subtlety. Also joy and appreciations.

He takes an interest in the Spodek/AIM Method so I describe it to him, not just do it. I hope everyone practices it and spreads the joy, fun, freedom, and rewarding emotions and experiences that connecting with nature does.

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Josh Martin started to do his commitment to shop at the farmers market, but it didn't connect. I think we didn't connect it to his experience of the environment.

We decided to find a new commitment by connecting more intrinsically. We spoke on sustainability, nutrition, health, sports, and many things, him from the position of an entrepreneur former athlete, me from a troubleshooting perspective. The result was covering many topics, eventually leading to a new commitment. My read from his tone at the end is that the new one resonates more for him.

One of the main discoveries of this podcast is that with rare exception, everyone cares about the environment. What's separating most people from acting isn't a lack of facts or lists of "ten little things" they could do for the environment. The lack leadership, meaning the tools leaders use, especially connecting with their intrinsic motivations. In the case of the environment, everyone has intrinsic motivation.

Hitting people over the head with facts, numbers, and what to do devalues their intrinsic motivation. I find the opposite works better: listening, empathizing, stories, and such.

• Josh's home page

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Sandra took responsibility when she didn't have to, as the Executive Director of NYC Pride, to respond to my requests to talk to an organizer. Longtime listeners and readers of my blog know that last year, I was disgusted by the garbage covering Washington Square Park the morning after New York City's 2021 Pride March. I posted pictures and video with the quote from another person in the park I saw that morning, "Pride destroyed the park."

It turns there are two Pride Marches and the other one ended in Washington Square Park, not the one Sandra organized, but she knew not everyone would know to distinguish them, the public could associate the mess with the whole community, and, in any case, both polluted too much.

Beyond responding, we met in their headquarters with about a month before the March. They were very busy. We talked about what they could do this year and for the future.

We also did the Spodek Method you are all used to hearing me do with leaders as guests on this podcast. We didn't record that first conversation, but agree to record the second---that is, this one---where we'd cover what we didn't record and she would share the results of that commitment.

She also put me in touch with other staff to incorporate sustainability more in their efforts. It remains to be seen how much happens. Can they follow in my footsteps to improve participants' experiences by reducing their pollution ninety percent in under three years? I hope to help them do it. Everyone benefits.

• NYC Pride's home page
• My pictures and video of Washington Square Park the morning after the 2021 March

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Watch Jason's Not Just Bikes videos. I've watched them all. They're informative, engaging, funny, researched, provocative, and keep you coming back, but not like Netflix stuff designed to addict.

After you watch a few, listen to our conversation. In our conversation he shares more depth than his videos of his motivations, how he makes the videos, interacts with his audience, feels frustration from some, learns from others, and more. He shares how life could be versus how it is. In this conversation he shares more about his wife and children, which drive his passion and choices probably most of all.

We also bond on how our searches for a better life revealed huge cultural myths that, if we never try living differently, we never think to question or consider alternatives could exist. If, before trying to live differently, anyone asked, we both would have figured anything different than how mainstream North America taught us must be worse. Beyond worse, incomparably worse, even life-threateningly worse.

The when we tried, we found it better. The myths fell apart. Yet one frustration arose and grew: nobody believes us. Words can't convey what Beethoven's ninth sounds like live, how a ripe fruit in season tastes, or how freedom from oil dependence feels.

But at least in this conversation, I believe we understood each other, so you can hear what freedom and connection sound like and mean in ways no addict can understand. I think you'll enjoy what we share, even if we're both frustrated at how misunderstood we feel by most people, even (especially) when we're inviting them to open themselves to something they'll enjoy more than their blissful ignorance.

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Etienne Stott is using his Olympic gold medalist status to augment his impact acting on the environment, including working with Extinction Rebellion on peaceful civil disobedience. He's been arrested, spoken publicly, and more.

When I started acting on sustainability, I looked for organizations to work with, but found none doing the leadership that I considered essential but i couldn't find anyone doing. I only learned enough about Extinction Rebellion to see it wasn't doing what I thought I should. After all this time I figured I should learn more what they do, so emailed Etienne to ask if he'd describe the organization.

Before he started explaining, he asked if I was recording, so I started to. Etienne then extemporaneously but thoroughly described Extinction Rebellion at the mission, strategy, and tactical level. He isn't just following some trend. You'll hear he researched the organization and what it does, reflected on his values, and chose to act deliberately.

This episode describes Extinction Rebellion from a researched, thoughtful insider's view.

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