Thought Behind Things

In this episode of Thought Behind Things, we sit down with Ahmed Abubakar, Founder of Imagine Art - a Pakistan-built GenAI creative suite used by millions worldwide and competing for #1–#2 positions in global design app charts, right next to Canva. Today, Imagine does $30M+ ARR, with a major portion of revenue coming from the US and international markets - proving that world-class AI products can be built from Pakistan.

We Explore:

• Early life, education, and family sacrifices
• Building Imagine and scaling GenAI to millions
• Why Pakistani app & gaming industry is bigger than India’s
• Monetization, profitability & $30M ARR
• ESOPs, stock options & talent philosophy
• Future of AI models, creativity, disruption & user context mapping
• Moving to the US, global talent, and Pakistan’s role in 2050

Socials:

TBT’s Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thoughtbehindthings/⁠⁠⁠⁠

TBT’s TikTok:⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@tbtbymuzamil⁠⁠⁠⁠

TBT’s Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/thoughtbehindthings⁠⁠⁠⁠

TBT Clips: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@tbtpodcastclips⁠⁠⁠⁠

Muzamil's Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/muzamilhasan/⁠⁠⁠⁠

Muzamil's LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/muzamilhasan/⁠⁠⁠⁠

Ahmed's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ahmed-abubakar-9482127b/

Endeavor's LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/endeavor-pakistan⁠⁠⁠⁠

Credits:

Executive Producer: Syed Muzamil Hasan Zaidi

Associate Producer: Saad Shehryar

Publisher: Talha Shaikh

Editor: Jawad Sajid

In this episode of Thought Behind Things, we sit down with Umer Munawar, Co-Founder of SmartLane, one of Pakistan’s fastest-growing logistics aggregation platforms.

Umer shares how he exited Finja and jumped straight into solving Pakistan’s most chaotic industry - e-commerce logistics. From integrating 31 courier companies, to processing thousands of parcels, to raising $2.3 million, this episode breaks down what really happens behind the scenes in Pakistan’s delivery ecosystem.

We discuss:

• Why e-commerce is the easiest business today
• Why logistics is brutally hard with razor-thin margins
• How SmartLane aggregates every major courier
• Why delivery riders earn so little
• Why Pakistan’s logistic pricing is totally unrealistic
• The future of debt funding, blockchain, & capital access
• And what Pakistan could look like by 2050

A deep-dive into e-commerce, logistics, fintech, and the future of business in Pakistan.

Socials:

TBT’s Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thoughtbehindthings/⁠⁠⁠⁠

TBT’s TikTok:⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@tbtbymuzamil⁠⁠⁠⁠

TBT’s Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/thoughtbehindthings⁠⁠⁠⁠

TBT Clips: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@tbtpodcastclips⁠⁠⁠⁠

Muzamil's Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/muzamilhasan/⁠⁠⁠⁠

Muzamil's LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/muzamilhasan/⁠⁠⁠⁠

Nayab's LinkedIn: pk.linkedin.com/in/umer-munawar-41a9a2125

Endeavor's LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/endeavor-pakistan⁠⁠⁠⁠

Credits:

Executive Producer: Syed Muzamil Hasan Zaidi

Associate Producer: Saad Shehryar

Publisher: Talha Shaikh

Editor: Jawad Sajid

In this episode of Thought Behind Things, we sit down with Nayab Babar, Chief Investment Officer at the Pakistan Startup Fund, the man shaping how capital flows into Pakistan’s next generation of startups.

Nayab shares how Warcraft strategy games trained his problem-solving mindset, how his perspective on racism changed, and why he believes exposure not arguments fixes prejudice.

Nayab also explains why:

• Pakistan & India have the same starting line in AI
• You won’t be replaced by AI, but by people USING AI
• Western media’s “free speech” narrative is deeply hypocritical
• NICs are broken and need complete rebuilding
• Brain drain isn’t always a bad thing

This is one of the most honest conversations on Pakistan’s tech reality, global competition, and the mindset shift needed for the next decade.

Socials:

TBT’s Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thoughtbehindthings/⁠⁠⁠

TBT’s TikTok:⁠⁠⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@tbtbymuzamil⁠⁠⁠

TBT’s Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/thoughtbehindthings⁠⁠⁠

TBT Clips: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@tbtpodcastclips⁠⁠⁠

Muzamil's Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/muzamilhasan/⁠⁠⁠

Muzamil's LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/muzamilhasan/⁠⁠⁠

Nayab's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nayab-babar-cfa/

Endeavor's LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/endeavor-pakistan⁠⁠⁠

Credits:

Executive Producer: Syed Muzamil Hasan Zaidi

Associate Producer: Saad Shehryar

Publisher: Talha Shaikh

Editor: Jawad Sajid

In this episode of Thought Behind Things, we sit down with Rayyan, the entrepreneur behind one of Pakistan’s fastest-growing food brands - OD.

From a disciplined childhood in madrassah to running his father’s company at a young age, Rayyan’s journey is a mix of family pressure, resilience, and a deep desire to build something of his own. He shares how he transformed a family business, shifted from textiles to food, burned through cash in restaurants, sold his company, and then partnered with the same buyers to build OD into a national franchise.

We explore:

• Growing up as the first-born
• Cash flow, failures & the reality of the restaurant business
• Scaling OD, acquiring it back & running a franchise-only model
• Location strategy, operations, and how to build a food business that lasts
• The future of Pakistani brands and Pakistan in 2050

A deep dive into business, leadership, family pressure, and the journey of building modern Pakistani brands.

Socials:

TBT’s Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thoughtbehindthings/⁠⁠⁠

TBT’s TikTok:⁠⁠⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@tbtbymuzamil⁠⁠⁠

TBT’s Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/thoughtbehindthings⁠⁠⁠

TBT Clips: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@tbtpodcastclips⁠⁠⁠

Muzamil's Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/muzamilhasan/⁠⁠⁠

Muzamil's LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/muzamilhasan/⁠⁠⁠

Rayyan's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rayyansohail/

Endeavor's LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/endeavor-pakistan⁠⁠⁠

Special thanks to Kickstart for providing us with the studio space.

You can find out more about them at: ⁠⁠⁠https://kickstart.pk/⁠⁠⁠

Credits:

Executive Producer: Syed Muzamil Hasan Zaidi

Associate Producer: Saad Shehryar

Publisher: Talha Shaikh

Editor: Jawad Sajid

In this episode of Thought Behind Things, we sit down with Yasir Suleman Memon, Founder & CEO of Salesflo, one of Pakistan’s biggest enterprise SaaS companies, now used globally across multiple markets.

We explore:

• Why second-tier Pakistani cities never developed
• How AI is reversing Pakistan’s freelancing boom
• Why Pakistani founders lack “IPO hunger”
• Why startups MUST list publicly to retain talent
• Why government will NOT fix anything and private enterprise must

Socials:

TBT’s Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thoughtbehindthings/⁠⁠⁠

TBT’s TikTok:⁠⁠⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@tbtbymuzamil⁠⁠⁠

TBT’s Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/thoughtbehindthings⁠⁠⁠

TBT Clips: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@tbtpodcastclips⁠⁠⁠

Muzamil's Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/muzamilhasan/⁠⁠⁠

Muzamil's LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/muzamilhasan/⁠⁠⁠

Yasir's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yasirsmemon/

Endeavor's LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/endeavor-pakistan⁠⁠⁠

Special thanks to Kickstart for providing us with the studio space.

You can find out more about them at: ⁠⁠⁠https://kickstart.pk/⁠⁠⁠

Credits:

Executive Producer: Syed Muzamil Hasan Zaidi

Associate Producer: Saad Shehryar

Publisher: Talha Shaikh

Editor: Jawad Sajid

In this episode of Thought Behind Things, we sit down with Salaal Hasan, Founder & CEO of Ahya AI, one of the most exciting climate-tech companies emerging from the region.

From studying in Europe to leading investments at the World Bank, Dubai International Capital, and JS, Salaal’s journey spans engineering, venture capital, policy, and sustainability. Today, he’s building AI-powered climate-intelligence tools used across the Middle East & Pakistan.

We explore:

• How early life in Germany & the UK shaped his worldview
• The real reason he left Dubai’s high salary to return to Pakistan
• Lahore smog, 2023 floods & Pakistan’s climate vulnerability
• Why IMF policies push Pakistan towards fuel dependency
• Carbon credits, ROI of going green & why Pakistani companies must care
• The missing infrastructure stopping Pakistan from making billions

Socials:

TBT’s Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thoughtbehindthings/⁠⁠⁠

TBT’s TikTok:⁠⁠⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@tbtbymuzamil⁠⁠⁠

TBT’s Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/thoughtbehindthings⁠⁠⁠

TBT Clips: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@tbtpodcastclips⁠⁠⁠

Muzamil's Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/muzamilhasan/⁠⁠⁠

Muzamil's LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/muzamilhasan/⁠⁠⁠

Salaal's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/salaalhasan/

Endeavor's LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/endeavor-pakistan⁠⁠⁠

Special thanks to Kickstart for providing us with the studio space.

You can find out more about them at: ⁠⁠⁠https://kickstart.pk/⁠⁠⁠

Credits:

Executive Producer: Syed Muzamil Hasan Zaidi

Associate Producer: Saad Shehryar

Publisher: Talha Shaikh

Editor: Jawad Sajid

In this episode of Thought Behind Things, we’re joined by the founder of Game Sports Management, one of Pakistan’s few companies trying to turn athletes into real commercial brands.

From managing Wasim Akram to building a full sports business, he shares the why Pakistan’s athletes never grow, why our sports ecosystem is broken, and how countries like India turned every sport into a billion-dollar industry while Pakistan stayed stuck.

We explore:

• Why the 2008 crash pushed him into sports
• How working with Wasim Akram changed everything
• Why Pakistan has no real system for athlete branding
• Why Indian stars become global icons but Pakistan’s don’t
• How Pakistan’s sports industry can explode by 2050

A conversation on the future of sports, talent management, personal brand, and the business behind athletes.

Socials:

TBT’s Instagram: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thoughtbehindthings/⁠⁠

TBT’s TikTok:⁠⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@tbtbymuzamil⁠⁠

TBT’s Facebook: ⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/thoughtbehindthings⁠⁠

TBT Clips: ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@tbtpodcastclips⁠⁠

Muzamil's Instagram: ⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/muzamilhasan/⁠⁠

Muzamil's LinkedIn: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/muzamilhasan/⁠⁠

Arsalan's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arsalanhydershah/

Endeavor's LinkedIn: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/endeavor-pakistan⁠⁠

Special thanks to Kickstart for providing us with the studio space.

You can find out more about them at: ⁠⁠https://kickstart.pk/⁠⁠

Credits:

Executive Producer: Syed Muzamil Hasan Zaidi

Associate Producer: Saad Shehryar

Publisher: Talha Shaikh

Editor: Jawad Sajid

In this episode of Thought Behind Things, we sit down with Oliver Bennett, the founder of Layers, a managed marketplace reshaping how the world thinks about second-hand fashion and sustainability.

Oliver opens up about his turbulent childhood, getting kicked out of home at 15, being bullied, and how those experiences shaped his rebellious, value-driven philosophy. Oliver shares why he believes in creating value, not chasing hustle culture.

We Explore:

• Why second-hand clothing is a massive global industry
• Karachi’s role as one of the largest second-hand clothing hubs in the world
• The dark realities of fast fashion exploitation
• Why Pakistan’s chaos is an advantage compared to the West
• Why he says he will never sell or exit Layers

Socials:

TBT’s Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/thoughtbehindthings/⁠

TBT’s TikTok:⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@tbtbymuzamil⁠

TBT’s Facebook: ⁠https://www.facebook.com/thoughtbehindthings⁠

TBT Clips: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@tbtpodcastclips⁠

Muzamil's Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/muzamilhasan/⁠

Muzamil's LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/muzamilhasan/⁠

Oliver's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oliverbennettlayers⁠

Endeavor's LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/endeavor-pakistan⁠

Special thanks to Kickstart for providing us with the studio space.

You can find out more about them at: ⁠https://kickstart.pk/⁠

Credits:

Executive Producer: Syed Muzamil Hasan Zaidi

Associate Producer: Saad Shehryar

Publisher: Talha Shaikh

Editor: Jawad Sajid

CHECK OUT MY AI AVATAR: https://muzamil.alethia.ai/

In this episode, we sit down with Arif Khan, Founder & CEO of ALETHIA AI, the global startup building real-time interactive AI agents, with a major part of the technology being developed in Pakistan.

We Explore:

• Creating AI versions of real people
• How Muzamil’s own AI avatar was trained
• Using AI for education, government services, counselling, and digital access
• What the post-AI world will look like
• And why energy scarcity might become the biggest challenge of the AI boom

A deep, honest, and mind-bending conversation about AI, identity, misuse, and the future of knowledge.

Socials:

TBT’s Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/thoughtbehindthings/⁠

TBT’s TikTok:⁠ https://www.tiktok.com/@tbtbymuzamil⁠

TBT’s Facebook: ⁠https://www.facebook.com/thoughtbehindthings⁠

TBT Clips: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@tbtpodcastclips⁠

Muzamil's Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/muzamilhasan/⁠

Muzamil's LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/muzamilhasan/⁠

Arif's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arikhan/

Endeavor's LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/endeavor-pakistan⁠

Special thanks to Kickstart for providing us with the studio space.

You can find out more about them at: ⁠https://kickstart.pk/⁠

Credits:

Executive Producer: Syed Muzamil Hasan Zaidi

Associate Producer: Saad Shehryar

Publisher: Talha Shaikh

Editor: Jawad Sajid

In this episode of Thought Behind Things, we sit down with Ziyad Parekh, Co-Founder & CEO of Safepay, one of Pakistan’s most exciting fintech startups and a Y-Combinator backed startup.

Ziyad shares how he went from Karachi to New York and why he left everything to return home and build Pakistan’s version of Stripe. We uncover how Safepay survived being taken to zero overnight, how they rebuilt with grit, and why they now process volumes comparable to giants like HBL.

We Explore:

• VISA/Mastercard charging Rs. 30 per transaction
• Getting Investment From Stripe
• Karachi's Poor infrastructure
• How RAAST might change everything
• And what the future of digital payments will look like

Socials:

TBT’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thoughtbehindthings/

TBT’s TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tbtbymuzamil

TBT’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thoughtbehindthings

TBT Clips: https://www.youtube.com/@tbtpodcastclips

Muzamil's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/muzamilhasan/

Muzamil's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/muzamilhasan/

Ziyad's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ziyad-parekh/

Endeavor's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/endeavor-pakistan

Special thanks to Kickstart for providing us with the studio space.

You can find out more about them at: https://kickstart.pk/

Credits:

Executive Producer: Syed Muzamil Hasan Zaidi

Associate Producer: Saad Shehryar

Publisher: Talha Shaikh

Editor: Jawad Sajid