Thriving in Complexity Podcast

By Susanne Le BoutillierBusiness Education Self-Improvement

Thriving in Complexity Podcast episodes

August 15, 2023023: Strategic Communication in a Complex World with Dr Libby Mitchell
At the core of every successful business lies the importance of good organisational communication. It’s the thread that connects teams, departments, and stakeholders and helps them make sense of their context.

However, when communication isn’t clear, people can get messages that cause confusion and distract them from what’s most important.

In this episode of Thriving in Complexity, Susanne Le Boutillier talks to Dr Libby Mitchell, a specialist in stakeholder engagement and strategic communication with experience in consulting, working in corporates and academia across the globe and in multiple sectors.
Dr Libby shares insights about the impact of effective communication, the pitfalls of storytelling and why using clear, concise, jargon-free communication in complex situations is essential.

Don’t miss this episode as Dr. Libby helps us understand the value of strategic communication and how doing it well can help us thrive in complexity.



WHAT YOU’LL DISCOVER IN THIS EPISODE:

Analysing communication challenges effectively (03:11)
Recognizing the significance of good organisational communication (08:25)
Tailoring actions to suit the intended audience (12:20)
Typical challenges faced by organisations Dr. Libby works with (13:45)
The impact of decision-making to avoid short-term losses (15:10)
Engaging the audience through storytelling (16:49)
Focusing on the receiver's interpretation of messages (18:39)
The power of a strong and supportive communications team (23:15)
Understanding an organisation's non-negotiables and potential workarounds (26:50)
Value of central coordination and setting the right tone (29:39)
Tips for effectively sharing essential information (33:20)
Dr. Libby's interpretation of thriving in complexity (41:45)
Advice to her 25-year-old self (43:48)


Quotes

"Strategic communications is very influential, it can be used for both good and evil. And it's a responsibility that should not be taken lightly." -Dr Libby Mitchell

"A communications expert would save you from sending out some bland bit of jargon-laden babble that won't help you achieve your objectives." -Dr Libby Mitchell

"It's not about what you think the audience needs, you need to test and retest the messaging to figure it out." -Dr Libby Mitchell

"You need to understand that less is more, focus on who the audience is, and leave out everything they don’t need." -Susanne Le Boutillier

"As a leader, you need to get up off your chair, walk the floor and have conversations with people. This gives valuable insight about how people are interpreting what they're hearing." -Susanne Le Boutillier

Resources

Thinking, Fast and Slow

Break Your Own Rules: How to Change the Patterns of Thinking that Block Women's Paths to Power

The Efficiency of Constructed Week Sampling for Content Analysis of Online News

WHERE TO FIND DR LIBBY MITCHELL

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/libbykmitchell/
50 min
July 17, 2023022: Coaching for Relentless Forward Progress and Potential with Liz Mackevicius
Organisations aren’t the only ones who can go from good to great – people can too. Coaching helps empower individuals to tap into their hidden reserves of passion and talent so they can grow. Having the right coach can help individuals become more resilient, adaptable, and capable of dealing with complex situations.

In this episode of Thriving in Complexity, Susanne Le Boutillier speaks with Liz Mackevicius, an accredited organisational coach who brings lessons learned from ultra marathon running into her coaching.

With nearly two decades of experience in public and private planning, Liz discovered her true passion: empowering individuals to translate aspirations into real breakthroughs by building client confidence, resolve and satisfaction. 

In our conversation Liz shares her expertise on facilitating transformative journeys, where she guides clients towards becoming the person they aspire to be. Liz emphasises the significance of relentless forward progress, encouraging individuals to focus on the present and embrace the journey rather than being overwhelmed by long-term goals.

Drawing from her experience, Liz unveils the power of shifting perspective and unearthing ingrained stories, beliefs, and assumptions that shape our self-perception.

Join us as we delve into Liz’s expertise to facilitate relentless forward progress for making work (and life) fulfilling and rewarding, going from feeling good to great. 
WHAT YOU’LL DISCOVER IN THIS EPISODE:

Liz’s shift to professional coaching and how it made an impact on her life (01:39)
What ultra-marathon running teaches us about professional development (03:40)
How to move towards the person you want to become (06:59)
The value of changing your context (10:35)
Coaching approaches to help people unlock their potential (12:25)
Liz's personal anecdotes about the value of coaching approaches (19:20)
The importance of having a curiosity skill set (23:30)
How to become more aware of the behaviours holding you back (27:00)
The best ways to alter habits of mind and patterns of behaviours (29:57)
Coaching frameworks Liz uses with clients (34:18)
Using a shift in perspective to move beyond feeling stuck (37:38)
Tips and advice for people wanting to do meaningful work (40:52)
What does thriving in complexity mean for Liz? (44:11)
Advice to Liz’s 25-year-old self (45:25)
One thing Liz wants you to remember (46:31)

Quotes

"The coaching process that you go through can help organise your thinking. So you have clear purpose and ideas about what you want, how you're going to get it, and the decisions become a lot easier."- Liz Mackevicius

"Observing how other people approach situations can be quite powerful." -Liz Mackevicius

"You need to be sure your mindset is serving you rather than undermining what you're about." -Liz Mackevicius

"A coach can help someone notice when they're holding on to something that is getting in the way of becoming who they need to become next." -Susanne Le Boutillier

Resources

Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us

Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones

Tim Ferriss

Waking Up

WHERE TO FIND LIZ MACKEVICIUS

Website: https://sentier.com.au/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liz-mackevicius-coach/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sentier_consulting/
50 min
June 12, 2023021: How One Woman Helped Transform Lives And Challenge Systems Over Twenty Years with Cath Bartolo
Navigating the intricate landscape of non-profit service provision in a world of escalating social complexities necessitates innovation, holistic approaches, and person-centeredness.

In this episode of Thriving in Complexity, Susanne Le Boutillier is joined by Cath Bartolo, CEO of YFS, whose pioneering work in Logan and surrounding areas is a testament to these principles.

Honoured as a Member of the Order of Australia, Cath brings to the table two decades of experience working tirelessly with vulnerable populations. Throughout the conversation, she underlines the pivotal role of integration and partnership among service providers, communities, and a wide spectrum of stakeholders to achieve positive outcomes for individuals and families facing adversity.

During our conversation, Cath talks about YFS’ transformative journey. From her early days to her commitment to rigorous, evidence-based programs and outcome measurement, she underscores the evolution and significance of case managers working with people as navigators or coaches. Cath also highlights the tremendous influence of initiatives like Logan Together, Thriving Families and Substation33 in opening up opportunities to do things differently.

Cath brings to light the multifaceted challenges inherent to service provision amidst the increasing social complexities of our times. She emphasises the necessity for flexibility, understanding, and above all, empathy in service providers. Additionally, she explores the profound impact of establishing a bedrock of trust between the community and organisations like YFS in combating systemic harm.

Join us as we explore the dynamic landscape of non-profit service provision, the power of a holistic approach, and the significance of innovation, empathy, and collaboration in addressing social complexities and improving lives.

WHAT YOU’LL DISCOVER IN THIS EPISODE:

An interesting trivia about Cath (02:59)
Complex community challenges in YFS (05:08)
The importance of assessing outcomes (09:50)
The value of knowing the constants for long-term case management (12:45)
What is Case Management and how has it improved over the years (14:20)
How does YFS deal with the complexities of different case scenarios (16:45)
What Thriving Families are about and how they help young struggling families (24:33)
Why is the theory of change so significant for YFS? (32:10)
Why it’s essential to use evidence-based interventions (35:00)
Two creative programs Cath carried through at YFS (41:18)
The benefits of disciplined dialogue processes (46:07)
What does Thriving in Complexity mean for Cath (48:55)
A complex situation she could’ve handled differently (49:55)
What is Cath most proud of in her work? (52:20)
Advice to her 25-year-old self (54:27)


Quotes

"If we want to create change in people's lives, we've got to do more than patch up a crisis." -Cath Bartolo
"It takes a lot of sophistication, and even stepping back reflecting what we're doing, how we can continually improve it." -Cath Bartolo

"It's not about directing, it's very driven by who we're working with and their goals." -Cath Bartolo

"Shift from feeling like you're doing good to actually knowing the impact you're having." -Susanne Le Boutillier

WHERE TO FIND CATH BARTOLO

Website: https://www.yfs.org.au/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/yfs-ltd/
Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/yfslogan/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/yfslogan?lang=en

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58 min
May 22, 2023 020: Why Complexity And Procurement Can Go Hand In Hand with Sharon Bailey
Have you ever considered how procurement approaches have evolved to tackle the intricacies of our modern world? It's time to challenge the common assumption that procurement acts as a blocker rather than an enabler. In fact, there's a remarkable alignment between procurement and complexity, where context, active listening, and engagement pave the way for exceptional outcomes.
In this episode of Thriving in Complexity, my guest is Sharon Bailey, the Chief Procurement Officer of the Queensland government. Sharon is not your typical head of government procurement and brings a diversity of experience and fresh perspectives to the table. From her early days as a social worker to her current role, Sharon has a deep understanding of how to achieve the best procurement outcomes in complex situations.
During our interview, Sharon opens up about typical procurement challenges and how to tackle them. Whether it's commissioning infrastructure projects for the highly anticipated Brisbane 2032 or providing vital services to support individuals experiencing vulnerability, she offers diverse strategies to help you commission what is needed for the context.
Join us as we delve deeper into the fascinating world where procurement and complexity intertwine, guided by the expertise of Sharon Bailey. She challenges the misconception that the procurement team is out to stifle your flexibility and adaptability in the face of emerging situations.
Get ready to unlock the true potential of procurement in this thought-provoking episode of Thriving in Complexity with Sharon Bailey.
41 min
April 24, 2023019: Predictive Analytics and Person-Centred Approaches with Andrea Danes
In this episode of Thriving in Complexity, our guest is Andrea Danes, EY’s Global Human Services Leader, with nearly 30 years of experience in both public and private sectors with program expertise in Medicaid, Child Welfare, and other Human Services programs.
Andrea shares her experience working with government leaders and communities to design and implement programs that address the specific needs of vulnerable populations. Throughout the conversation, we'll explore the challenges of navigating complex systems, the promise of predictive analytics and the importance of building strong partnerships to overcome these obstacles.
Andrea emphasizes the importance of a person-centred approach why it is essential to focus on people, families, and communities rather than just on programs.
We also discuss the importance of transforming the safety net and using data and intuition to enable resilience and recovery in the delivery of Human Services. Andrea shares the personal experiences that drive both her perspective and passion for supporting individuals and families in need.
Join us in this episode of Thriving in Complexity to learn more about the complexities of the human and health services landscape and the importance of a person-centred approach in providing quality care and support to people experiencing vulnerability.
WHAT YOU’LL DISCOVER IN THIS EPISODE:
One thing most people don’t know about Andrea (01:11)
Andrea’s favourite experience working in complexity (03:19)
Why did Andrea become an advocate for human services? (08:57)
The challenges leaders face in the human and health services system (14:44)
What is predictive analytics and how can it improve individual outcomes (21:31)
Aggregation of data in different cultural contexts (27:45)
How to start with social programs (31:15)
The role of community-controlled organisations (37:06)
Pitfalls of predictive analysis (41:19)
Thriving in complexity, according to Andrea (44:39)

Quotes    “If you are going to use data of people on their own behalf, you must be transparent about what data and the purpose.” - Andrea Danes
“Success is not when the system is changed. It's as individual minds are changed.” - Anthony, Andrea Danes’ Uber Driver “The top three are workforce, digitalisation and compounded need.” - Andrea Danes
“We're continually tasked with measuring the impact based on bad things that didn't happen.” - Andrea Danes   Resources   Radical Help By Hilary Cottam WHERE TO FIND ANDREA DANES
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/asdanes
Twitter: https://twitter.com/asdanes?lang=en

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49 min
April 10, 2023018: The Power of Activating People in Complex Situations with Max Hardy
In this episode of Thriving in Complexity, Susanne Le Boutillier speaks with one of Australia’s foremost experts in community engagement processes, Max Hardy. Max highlights that starting softly and listening without judgement, rather than going in hard from the start, is key to creating positive outcomes that benefit both the community and the organisation.  Max discusses the importance of co-design in activating people and how it helps to create a sense of ownership and buy-in from the community. He also explains how fear of failure can hinder the engagement process and how utilising appreciative inquiry and framing questions can help overcome this. Max also explains how utilising digital tools in engagement processes can enhance community participation and create a more inclusive process.  If you are looking for practical tips on how to effectively engage with communities or people across your organisation, this episode is for you. Tune in and learn from Max Hardy's extensive experience and remember, the quality of early engagement helps to set you up to get somewhere - it might not be exactly where you thought you were going, but it will be a better place.    WHAT YOU’LL DISCOVER IN THIS EPISODE:
What most people don't know about Max (04:45)
What does working in the public participation space means (06:20)
The impact of activating people in the community (10:30)
The value of Co-design in activating people (13:50)
How does fear of failure affect the process (18:35)
The importance of listening without judgement (24:25)
Why we need to explore different ways of having a conversation (30:01)
The benefits of framing questions (32:02)
Utilising appreciative inquiry in complex problems (37:32)
The power of digital tools in engagements (41:52)
What does thriving in complexity mean for Max? (48:00)
A situation he would've handled differently (49:39)
Max's advice to his 25-year-old self (53:23)

Quotes    "When faced with a complex situation, people often tend to think, or see the community as a problem to be solved, rather than an asset to be utilised." -Max Hardy  "Building relationships is absolutely critical. And you only build those relationships when people know that you actually care about what they care about." -Max Hardy  "If you demonstrate you're interested in what people know, then they'll become curious about what you know." -Max Hardy  "The lens through which we interpret things is based on what we already know, and have experienced ourselves" -Susanne Le Boutillier     Resources   TED Talk: Questions change everything in community engagement   WHERE TO FIND MAX HARDY
Website: https://maxhardy.com.au/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/maxchardy
Email: [email protected]

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56 min
March 20, 2023017: How To Build Resilience And Capability with Complexity-Based Tools and Methods with Viv Read
In this episode of Thriving in Complexity, Susanne Le Boutillier talks to Viv Read about the importance of using complexity-based tools and methods in organisations. As the Director of Complexability Pty Ltd, a company that specialises in enabling collaborative projects with other independent consultants working in the field of complexity, Viv shares practical tips on how to effectively manage complex projects informed by her many years of experience in the field.  Viv highlights that complexity-based tools help organisations build resilience and capability by learning through doing and shifting power and responsibility away from external consultants into the organisation. She emphasises that knowing where an organisation doesn't want to be is just as important as knowing where they want to head, and having boundaries and flexibility is critical.  If you are a senior business leader who is struggling with the complexity of the ever-changing context around you or looking for answers on how to tackle complex situations, this episode is for you. Tune in and learn how to use complexity-based tools and methods to effectively manage projects and create successful outcomes.
WHAT YOU’LL DISCOVER IN THIS EPISODE:
What are the complexity-based tools and methods (05:19)
Why should organizations use complexity-based tools and methods? (07:27)
The importance of knowing what you don’t want (10:56)
What does the term “safe to fail” mean? (13:50)
Working in complexity vs. pivoting in response to change (19:25)
The power of a narrative-driven process (24:53)
Meals on Wheels and the value of the brand (31:45)
Integrating indigenous thinkers and speakers into the network (37:12)
Common mistakes that organisations make when working in complexity (41:35)
Viv’s advice to other complexity practitioners (47:48)
Thriving in complexity according to Viv (53:09)
One thing Viv wants other people to remember (58:32)

  Quotes     "It's just as important to know where you don't want to be as where you do." -Viv Read    “What working with complexity does is help people build resilience and capacity by learning by doing.” -Viv Read  " Focusing on what's next, doesn't mean that you don't have a sense of where you want to head." -Susanne Le Boutillier      Resources   Pam Health Foundation Meals on Wheels  WHERE TO FIND VIV READ
LinkedIn: https://au.linkedin.com/in/viv-read-a06390
Website: www.complexability.com.au

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1 hr 6 min
February 27, 2023016: Advisory Boards: A Valuable Model for Organisations During Times of Complexity with Louise Broekman
In this episode of Thriving in Complexity, host Susanne Le Boutillier talks to Louise Broekman about the value advisory boards can offer when you’re navigating complexity. Regardless of whether your organisation has a governance board, advisory boards help improve problem-solving and ensuring quality thinking for the best decision-making.  Louise, who spent five years researching, testing, and validating advisory boards globally, discovered that there was no professional body looking after the advisory board sector in the world. This led her to establish the Advisory Board Centre to provide ethical foundations and best practice principles for the sector, enabling advisors to learn from each other and collaborate while helping clients achieve their strategic objectives.  If you're an entrepreneur or business leader, don't miss this opportunity to understand how advisory boards can have a positive impact on your organisation. Tune in to this episode to learn more about the power of advisory boards and how they can help you thrive in complexity. Discover how having the right advisory board can help you make better decisions and navigate the ever-changing business landscape.     WHAT YOU’LL DISCOVER IN THIS EPISODE:
An interesting fact about Louise (02:40)
What are advisory boards and why are they becoming popular? (04:40)
How do advisory boards generate process accountability among directors (07:05)
Louise’s advisory board genesis story (11:08)
Who is suited to become advisory board members (15:20)
What types of organisations need advisory boards (18:25)
Determining if advisory boards are right for your business (21:25)
How to ensure that advisory boards are operating in the best interest of your business (31:10)
What does Thriving in Complexity mean for Louise (41:01)
A complex situation she could've managed differently (44:09)
The importance of knowing you won’t let yourself down (47:41)

Quotes   "An advisory board is not a decision-making model, it's a problem-solving model. It’s ultimately a thinking system." -Louise Broekman  "We need to have different conversations, to be able to make different decisions in a way that's also going to be safe in the eyes of the market, and do the right thing in organisations, in ways that are viable, but also sustainable." - Louise Broekman  "Not everyone should be providing advice. It's not a job, it's a vocation." -Louise Broekman  "Sometimes a holding to account focus can get in the way of creating a constructive thinking environment." -Susanne Le Boutillier     Resources   STATE OF THE MARKET GLOBAL REPORT 2021  ABF101 Best Practice Framework™ | Advisory Board Centre  Advisor Concierge Service | Advisory Board Centre  WHERE TO FIND LOUISE BROEKMAN
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louise-broekman/
Website: http://www.advisoryboardcentre.com.au/

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54 min
February 20, 2023015: Navigating Healthcare Complexity: The Importance of Human-Centered Design with Satyan Chari
When the pandemic struck, it revealed opportunities to innovate and improve healthcare systems in different areas of the world. Healthcare was in the spotlight begging for creative solutions.
In this episode of Thriving in Complexity, Susanne chats with Satyan Chari about bridging gaps in healthcare through human-centred design. He is an Occupational Therapist and currently leads the Clinical Excellence Queensland (CEQ) Bridge Labs programs. The program Satyan leads harnesses the benefits of creative design, systems, and human factors science to improve healthcare.
It’s clear as day the present healthcare system challenges are very different from the problems of healthcare in the 1980s. System interactions today compel us to create innovative solutions that allow us to look at various healthcare situations through the lens of technical and social complexity.
Giving people the freedom to think creatively allows them to utilise resources and create human-centred designs to influence different approaches to healthcare problems.
Satyan does not hold back in sharing his expertise in innovating healthcare, he understands the value of human resilience while working in complexity. Change happens when people are willing to do the work and employ sustainable solutions.   WHAT YOU’LL DISCOVER IN THIS EPISODE:
What most people don't know about Satyan (01:27)
What Bridge Labs does and how it helps improve healthcare (02:39)
The types of projects Satyan's been involved in (07:49)
Design thinking's influence on the creative work of clinicians (11:05)
Expressing leadership in distinct yet helpful ways (16:10)
The role of power in changing systems (18:02)
The impact of sense-making in complexity (23:27)
The importance of having flexibility in policies and managing risks (34:35)
Navigating changes in the modern world (44:35)
What is resilience engineering and the outcomes it produces (48:40)
What does thriving in complexity mean for Satyan? (53:00)

  Quotes
"If we give people the opportunity to think and do in a certain way, they see intuitively the value of connecting on a deeper level with communities and consumers." - Satyan Chari
"Allowing space for people to be creative is a catalyst for eliciting what might already exist ." - Satyan Chari
"We need to separate the people within the system and who they innately are and how the system forces them to behave." - Susanne Le Boutillier
"Tap into people’s shared purpose, not shared values, because what they value could potentially be quite different." - Susanne Le Boutillier ResourcesThe Queensland Bridge Labs Program: An ecosystem approach to healthcare transformationJohn Flach
WHERE TO FIND SATYAN CHARI
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/satyanchari/
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@hsi-network

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58 min
February 13, 2023014: Get Rid Of Cookie-Cutter Change and Start Designing Changing Experiences with Faith Timbs
Cookie-cutter approaches to change are often derailed by volatility, uncertainty, ambiguity and complexity. So, why do so many people still cling to them? Is it because we desire certainty, even when we know that’s often not possible? In this episode of Thriving of Complexity, Susanne speaks with Faith Timbs on how to get rid of cookie-cutter change and start designing changing experiences.  Faith is the Founder and Managing Director of Timbs and Co: Change Design. Her business helps clients stop managing change and encourages them to take a fresh look at changing.  Using cookie-cutter approaches to change can make people feel unproductive and demotivated.  When context is used to determine the changing experience in an organisation, it establishes an understanding of what needs to happen, where change leaders should start, and where the organisation is going.
If you want people to make sense of and understand how they can be part of the change, tune in as Faith dives deep and shares her knowledge and expertise in creating a good changing experience.    WHAT YOU’LL DISCOVER IN THIS EPISODE:
An interesting fact about Faith (02:07)
Managing change in the complexity space (03:33)
The limitations of cookie-cutter change experiences (10:18)
What makes a good changing experience (17:57)
Incorporating the Cynefin framework in helping clients (24:12)
Common organisation mistakes when making change (31:45)
What does thriving in complexity mean for Faith (38:15)
Complex situations she could’ve managed differently (43:45)
Advice for her 25-year-old self (55:00)
The importance of context in change (56:40)

  Quotes
"What I think and how I'm impacted by change changes because it's not just about your change." - Faith Timbs  "People who know your context best are the people who live in it every day." - Faith Timbs  "If you don't ask for things, you won't get them." - Faith Timbs  "Leaders today need space to engage the team so that they can lead." -Susanne Le Boutillier

WHERE TO FIND FAITH TIMBS
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/faith-timbs/
Website: https://www.timbsandco.com/

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1 hr

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Get a peek behind the scenes of complex workplaces and situations as Susanne Le Boutillier interviews leaders and experts who will challenge your thinking, inform, and inspire your leadership of self…

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