Overloaded: Understanding Neglect Season 4

Show Notes: Episode 1: Tilling the Soil for Social Change

Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Jessica Moyer – FrameWorks Institute
• Dr. Nadine Burke Harris – ACE Resource Network and former California Surgeon General
• Samantha Mellerson – Haywood Burns Institute
• Dr. Bruce Perry – Child Trauma Academy
• Representative Annessa Hartman – Oregon State Representative
• Desmond Meade – Florida Rights Restoration Coalition

00:00-01:59 – Luke Waldo - Over the past three seasons of Overloaded we have explored the forces that overload families, from poverty to social isolation, systemic racism to mistrust of our systems. But this season, we're looking at something more invisible, the stories behind these forces…

[Media clips about narratives behind overloaded families and child welfare]

2:00-3:16 – Luke Waldo - Changing those narratives takes intention, courage and collective effort. Together, we can tell a story that uplifts instead of blames, that prevents harm before it happens. In season four, we're taking apart the stories that define our families, our communities and our future and building better ones together. 

You will hear from the inspiring changemakers that I had the honor of interviewing this past summer at the 2025 Prevent Child Abuse America national conference for their podcast The Shift: Voices of Prevention.

3:17-3:53 – Jessica Moyer – “What we're seeking to change are things that are really entrenched, really embedded. I mean, culture doesn't move quickly.” 

3:53-3:58 – Luke Waldo – What is a narrative?

3:58-6:23 – Jessica Moyer – “Narratives are made up of lots of different stories. So narratives are kind of patterns in stories.”

Defining narrative, stories, mental models, and framing.

“Which ones do we want to kind of cultivate and activate and queue up and utilize, and which are the ones that are holding us back? Which are the ones that are maybe being activated by default but not really helping us? Which ones are unproductive? And how do we steer clear of those? And we do think of it in terms of kind of like we love a good explanatory metaphor at FrameWorks, but we think of it as kind of like tilling the soil for social change. So it's about laying the groundwork that will enable all kinds of decisions and collective actions that will have an impact. But the change that we're seeking is slow, and it happens over a long period of time.”

6:23-7:04 – Luke Waldo – “…narrative is such a powerful force that it impacts how we aspire, where we put our empathy, and even how we react to how trauma affects us and those we love.”

7:04-7:21 – Dr. Nadine Burke Harris – “Let me tell you one of these stories that we've been telling ourselves, one of the stories that we've been telling ourselves as a society is that talking about trauma and adversity does harm.”

7:21-7:58 – Luke Waldo – Even when evidence changes or even our realities, old stories linger, shaping what we see, the way we act and what we ignore. But why? Or maybe how is a better question. How do our mindsets and the narratives that may shape or change them work? How does it all function?

7:58-9:34– Jessica Moyer – “Mindsets are those deeply held, kind of latent, sort of default patterns and thinking they're different from public opinions, because we're not always even aware that we're holding them. They're sort of kind of lenses on the world that we share, that influence how we see the world, how we process new information, and they are durable.”

“Framing has to do with that, the way that we tell stories, the way that we present information. Framing involves lots of different choices in how we communicate. And anytime we're communicating, we're framing. So framing involves things like, what do we put into a particular message? What are the things that we don't say? What tone do we adopt? What values do we appeal to? How do we explain particular concepts? What examples do we draw on to make a particular point or to explain a particular concept?” 

9:34-9:58 – Luke Waldo – “Let’s imagine this all as a tree. If mindsets are the roots, narratives are the trunk. And were we to step back … way back… far enough to see it all … framing is how we describe the forest.”

9:58-10:24 – Jessica Moyer – “Choices, but a lot of times, we're making those choices without realizing that we're making them or making them without realizing what impact they'll have.”

10:24-10:38 – Luke Waldo – “And yet, over and over again, we are often making the same choices, choosing the same narratives and treading the same path. Why is that?” 

10:38-10:49 – Samantha Mellerson – “Somehow we've become so conflict averse that we dare not present an idea that's different or that may be perceived as against the norm of what's happening, right?”

10:49-11:03 - Dr. Bruce Perry – “I think part of the issue is that people tend to view the world and problems from their frame of reference, from where they're standing.”

• What Happened to You? Conversations on Trauma, Resilience, and Healing by Dr. Bruce Perry and Oprah Winfrey

11:03-11:42 - Luke Waldo – But what I love about Frameworks’ approach, and what I’ve learned through Overloaded, is that framing isn’t manipulation, or coercion or even persuasion. It’s stewardship.

It’s about creating the conditions, the mental space where truth and empathy can coexist. Or even better: where it can thrive. How might we do that in the face of harmful, dominant narratives?

11:42-16:13 - Jessica Moyer – Exploration of the individualism and “care matters most” mindsets.

16:13-16:44 - Luke Waldo – “Those mental models are then reinforced by narratives, which can lead to how we behave, pass laws, on-board practices and procedures; it reinforces how we see our overloaded parents, caregivers, and families.”

16:44-17:32 - Dr. Bruce Perry – “And so by and large, really, you know, 40, 50, 60 years ago, uh, the majority of people that were solving problems around education, child welfare, mental health were looking at it through the lenses of an adult.”

17:32-19:00 - Luke Waldo – Story about fatherhood and the “empty vessel” myth.

19:00-19:28 - Annessa Hartman – “I think one common story I often hear from people is that we keep people poor so that they can stay on these services.”

19:28-20:23 – Luke Waldo – “Time and time again, history tells us that when we accept dominant narratives uncritically, we make decisions, often motivated or informed by fear or suspicion, not understanding or empathy.”

[Media clips about overloaded families and child welfare]

20:23-23:32 - Jessica Moyer – “What we found to be most effective in the end was to sort of redefine care itself, to define care much more broadly, to define care as something that is a collective endeavor.”

23:32-24:09 - Luke Waldo – “And what Jess is saying is that by broadening our definition of, in this case, care, we turn empathy into infrastructure for better, more constructive narratives. This is where narrative becomes strategy.”

24:09-24:16 - Annessa Hartman – “We need people who understand what it's like to live paycheck to paycheck.”

24:16-24:32 - Dr. Bruce Perry – “Form real relationships.”

24:32-25:05 - Desmond Meade – “…if we can get people to love who, what they despise the most, or who they hate the most, then they're capable of loving everyone, right?”

25:05-26:47 - Dr. Nadine Burke Harris – “The more you just kind of scrape under the surface and start to look at how these odds are set, right, the more, the easier it is you to recognize the embedding of some of these structural inequities in our society.”

26:47-27:17 – Luke Waldo - When we tell stories that reflect our interdependence, we make it possible for systems to act on that truth.

A final, if not nagging, question Season 4 seeks to answer: How do we do that? 

27:17-29:01 – Jessica Moyer – “So expanding that concept of care to something that's collective, inclusive and expansive, I think, is something that everybody can do.”

29:01-30:40 - Luke Waldo - Narrative change is patient, strategic work. It’s about returning, again and again, to the same truth: that families thrive when communities do.
Every conversation, every story, every small policy that affirms that truth, it all tills the soil. And over time, that soil grows something new: belonging, stability, and shared possibility.

I would like to again thank Prevent Child Abuse America for their partnership and the opportunity to co-host their podcast, The Shift: Voices of Prevention, at their 2025 national conference. If you’d like to hear the full episodes where the many voices and clips that you heard today came from, find The Shift: Voices of Prevention wherever you listen to this podcast or you can find the links below.

• From Pain to Power: Dr. Nadine Burke Harris on Healing and Prevention
• Quantum Leap Possibilities of Prevention with Dr. Bruce Perry
• Reimagining Together: Seeding System Success with Samantha Mellerson and Tshaka Barrows
• Love as a Force for Justice with Desmond Meade
• Policy Through Lived Experience with Rep. Annessa Hartman
• Framing Family Well-Being: From Blame to Belonging | Jessica Moyer

In our next episode, Jess Moyer joins me in the studio to go deeper. We'll explore the mechanics of how narratives work, how mindsets get activated, how stories reinforce or challenge those patterns, and most importantly, how we can make strategic choices in our framing to shift culture and policy. If you've been wondering how to actually apply these ideas in your work, your conversations, or your community, episode two is where we dig into the how.

30:40 - Luke – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.