John Nerst, in some sort of bizarre ascetic practice, enjoys studying people disagreeing online.

While online discourse is a cesspool of bad intentions, bad faith, and, of course, bad arguments, John is able to divine some deep insights about the fundamental nature of human disagreement.

In this interview, we discuss how the abstractions we use let us down when we are trying to be precise in moral arguments, how the “decoupling vs contextualizing” axis explains how smart people with good intentions can endlessly talk past each other, and why the “tilted political compass” gives many folks who are alienated by contemporary political discourse a home.

Learn more from John here:

• Website: www.everythingstudies.com
• Twitter: @everytstudiesr

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Suggested Posts from John:

• “Erisology: The Science of Arguing About Everything” from The Atlantic
• The Tilted Political Compass, Part 1: Left and Right
• The Tilted Political Compass, Part 2: Up and Down
• The Nerd as the Norm
• Case Study: The War on Christmas
• Science, the Constructionists, and Reality
• A Deep Dive into the Harris-Klein Controversy
• 30 Fundamentals

Show Notes:

• [01:38] The anxiety associated with the overwhelming amount of interesting things there are out there to learn—and how John focuses on things outside of his comfort zone in order to keep learning.
• [06:44] John’s mental model for piecing together arguments that he doesn’t agree with. And, a primer on postmodern philosophy and contextualization.
• [14:01] Many arguments result from a disagreement on the definitions of abstractions. It’s easy to pick apart the vagaries of arguments that aren’t on “our side,” while simultaneously giving the benefit of the doubt to conclusions that we like.
• [25:55] Abstractions are “leaky,” and are often the root of disagreements.
• [37:50] An argument intended to correct for a worldview that has “swung too far” can seem totally out of touch to someone who doesn’t have the same shared context.
• [44:17] Contextualizers vs decouplers: should information be interpreted in abstractions and toy problems, or should the social context in which arguments exist always be paramount?
• [53:28] Certain arguments and pieces of information are mimetically fit and can jump outside of their original context—sometimes to the chagrin of the original author
• [01:03:39] How contextualizing vs decoupling helps create the tilted political compass—and how the tilted political compass helps several people alienated by contemporary political discourse find their home
• [01:13:01] The dopamine hit from finding a validation of your identity online
• [01:16:38] Where to get started with John’s blog Everything Studies

Links and Resources Mentioned

• Postmodernism
• Post-structuralism
• Universal grammar
• Noam Chomsky
• The Social Construction of Scientific Knowledge
• Eric Weinstein
• String theory
• Michel Foucault
• “Nobody: ” from Know Your Meme
• Richard Dawkins’s controversial Tweet
• “The ‘10,000-hour rule’ about becoming an expert is wrong — here’s why” from Business Insider
• “The Wisdom of Crowds” by James Surowiecki
• Condorcet’s jury theorem
• “Albert Kao, PhD on the Wisdom of Crowds and Hyperconnected Networks” from Todd Nief
• “The cognitive decoupling elite” from Dross Bucket
• Wittgenstein’s “family resemblance”
• Black Sabbath
• Iron Maiden
• Suffocation
• “A Thrive/Survive Theory Of The Political Spectrum” from Slate Star Codex
• WEIRD psychology
• Jonah Peretti
• “Negations: Capitalism and Schizophrenia” by Jonah Peretti

Albert Kao of the Santa Fe Institute has been researching collective behavior in animals — including really crazy things like using their own bodies as a bridge to invade a wasp nest. As we mention in the podcast, this absolutely needs to be made into a horror movie if it hasn't already.

In addition to animal behavior, Albert has also created some really insightful models that find that smaller groups do a better job of converging on accurate information in complex environments — contrary to the well-known "wisdom of crowds" model, where more information entering the system is better.

While the math in these models can be a little bit tricky, there is deep insight here into how our world is organized — from schools of fish to optimal team sizes in organizations to, of course, our current engagement with social media.

Albert, along with several other scholars, has started thinking about how to apply some of the knowledge that folks studying complex systems have about network design and dynamics in order to help guide policy decisions in regulating companies like Twitter and Facebook.

I think this is some of the most important work of our time, since the easy potshots on social media (distraction, vanity metrics, privacy invasion) may not be what we are grappling with — we may instead be grappling with fundamental aspects of hyperconnected networks.

If you're enjoying the show, the best way to support it is by sharing with your friends. If you don't have any friends, why not a leave a review? It makes a difference in terms of other people finding the show.

You can also subscribe to receive my e-mail newsletter at www.toddnief.com. Most of my writing never makes it to the blog, so get on that list.

Show Notes:

• [01:04] When do we experience the “wisdom of crowds” and when do we experience the “madness of crowds”?
• [08:24] The bizarre collective behavior of ants
• [17:15] When does adding more people make collective decision-making more accurate — and when does it make collective decision-making less accurate?
• [25:52] Mid-sized groups seem to strike the balance between benefitting from the wisdom of crowds without being susceptible to the madness of crowds.
• [37:19] How are academics from the Santa Fe Institute and other areas thinking about making policy recommendations for regulation of social media and other hyperconnected networks?
• [49:06] What do we want our social networks to be optimizing for? Can we design the networks to encourage the behaviors that we want?
• [59:10] Speculation on the ability of modularity in networks to improve creativity in things like music scenes — and the sometimes positive dynamics of rivalries.
• [01:09:10] How to learn more from Albert

Links and Resources Mentioned

• Army Ant Death Spiral
• How do army ants build bridges with no one in charge?
• Conway’s Game of Life
• Play John Conway’s Game of Life
• Condorcet’s jury theorem
• Limits of information for trading and investing | overconfidence vs. accuracy
• “The wisdom of partisan crowds” by Joshua Becker, Ethan Porter, and Damon Centola
• Wu-Tang Clan
• Prisoner’s dilemma

I’m often asked “how I handle it all,” and — while I think the true answer may have something to do with several deep flaws in my fundamental personality, I do think I have a framework that helps me get a good amount of stuff done.

I tend to manage too many projects at once pretty much all of the time — which is actually probably not very good for my mental health nor my overall effectiveness.

Still, I’ve developed some systems that enable me to keep things moving along.

The biggest update from my previous soliloquy on productivity is the introduction of “daily buckets.”

I organize my projects into three categories:

1. High cognitive load work projects
2. Content creation/Creative work
3. Admin

Every day, I pick one project from each category to move forward. This has been the biggest win for me, and I hope it’s helpful for someone else.

If you're enjoying the show, the best way to support it is by sharing with your friends. If you don't have any friends, why not a leave a review? It makes a difference in terms of other people finding the show.

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Show Notes:

• [0:10] An analysis of the flaws in my personality that also result in high productivity
• [04:21] The Jane Jacobs model of productivity — creating systems with optimal opportunities for self-organization
• [08:10] A tangible example of splitting a large priority into discrete projects — and how to organize those projects into different buckets throughout the week
• [13:56] Creating weekly project priorities and then converting those into daily priority projects
• [19:52] Finding the optimal balance of structure and flexibility in any system — and the flaws of being too structured in your planning

Links and Resources Mentioned

• Palu app
• ‎Asana
• Getting Things Done

It doesn’t always work well to try to corner artists who you like and make them explain how they do the thing that you enjoy about their work.

Sort of like getting a comedian to explain their jokes. Maybe not the best thing for your ongoing enjoyment of humor.

Still, I will not be deterred, and I wanted to get Ethan from Primitive Man on the podcast to pressure him into explaining how he thinks about the dissonant soundscapes he creates not just for Primitive Man, but for all of the musical projects that he’s involved with like Many Blessings and Vermin Womb.

Ethan — like many creatives — cannot be contained and also has his fingers in visual art (including designing the cover art for the Hate Force record we put out somewhat recently) and booking all kinds of shows.

Check out more from Ethan, Primitive Man, and Many Blessings here:

• Website: www.hellsimulation.com
• Bandcamp: Primitive Man | Many Blessings | Vermin Womb
• Instagram: @primitivemandoom

If you're enjoying the show, the best way to support it is by sharing with your friends. If you don't have any friends, why not a leave a review? It makes a difference in terms of other people finding the show.

You can also subscribe to receive my e-mail newsletter at www.toddnief.com. Most of my writing never makes it to the blog, so get on that list.

Show Notes:

• [01:12] How does Ethan use dissonance as a tool in his creativity?
• [08:44] How Ethan uses influences from other genres to spark creativity in Primitive Man — although passed through a “horrifying” filter, of course.
• [17:21] Are there unexplored avenues of “heaviness” in heavy music?
• [25:59] How Ethan’s visual art differs from his musical art.
• [32:50] How distrust, disinformation, and the getting implanted with a microchip fall create a dystopian environment.
• [48:50] Denver’s extreme music scene and the necessity of new bands taking the reins. How will shows bounce back after COVID?
• [56:32] What is Ethan’s role in booking shows and what opportunities will there be for people to get involved when live music returns?
• [01:08:10] Check out Primitive Man, Ethan’s Art & Many Blessings

Links and Resources Mentioned

• Hate Force album cover
• ‎Recode Decode: with Boots Riley
• “Sorry to Bother You” film
• “Aimen Dean | Nine Lives of a Spy Inside Al-Qaeda Part One” from The Jordan Harbinger Show
• NIVA | National Independent Venue Association
• Save Our Stages
• David Blaine and Ricky Gervais

Bands and Artists Mentioned

• Incantation
• Immolation
• Today Is The Day
• Godflesh
• Neurosis
• Crowbar
• Disembowelment
• The Haxan Cloak
• Lawrence English
• SUNN O)))
• Revenge
• Impetuous Ritual
• U.S. Maple
• Portal
• The Coup
• Cephalic Carnage

As I mention in the intro to this podcast, I know John Murphy as the pilot of a 90s era Pontiac Trans Sport — aka the “Egg Van.”

The world, however, knows John as co-founder and gameplay designer at Young Horses, the indie games collective responsible for the much beloved hit Octodad.

As a lad, I was an obsessive and nerdy player of role-playing games for the Super Nintendo. Final Fantasy, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Chrono Trigger…as well as “also rans” like Breath of Fire and Illusion of Gaia.

Since then, I haven’t kept up much with video games, so I was excited to pry into John’s creative process in a medium that I think is often underrated by outsiders in terms of its potential for expressiveness and imagination.

John was also part of a team that — despite all the odds — turned a school project into an international video-gaming hit. I can tell you that none of my school projects ever approached anything that anyone would possibly care about, so we also discussed the dynamics of building a real business from an unlikely beginning.

Check out more from John, Young Horses, and Bugsnax here:

• Twitter: @johmmmmmm | @YoungHorses
• Website: www.younghorsesgames.com | www.octodad.com | www.bugsnax.com

If you're enjoying the show, the best way to support it is by sharing with your friends. If you don't have any friends, why not a leave a review? It makes a difference in terms of other people finding the show.

You can also subscribe to receive my e-mail newsletter at www.toddnief.com. Most of my writing never makes it to the blog, so get on that list.

Show Notes:

• [02:30] Is it ethical to leverage the powers of technology and understanding of human psychology to lock people into fantasy worlds?
• [15:18] How did Young Horses turn a school project into Octodad — a game with international success and renown?
• [24:22] How do different “scenes” work in the video game industry? How do these scenes lead to innovation and creativity?
• [33:51] The process of developing a video game involves a certain amount of “lock in.” How do developers get user feedback and iterate? How does this impact the creative process?
• [43:35] How do “influences” impact the creative process of game design? What games and developers influence John and Young Horses?
• [58:06] Existing between “genres” in the video game space — how does Young Horses balance the strangeness of their games with the playfulness?
• [01:08:45] Is finding the right genre necessary for success in marketing a video game?
• [01:21:12] How to play Young Horses’ games — including Bugsnax holiday 2020

Links and Resources Mentioned

• DePaul MFA in Game Design
• The Fireside Bowl
• Revealed preference
• The Last Dance
• “Loot boxes in online games and their effect on consumers, in particular young consumers” from Policy Department for Economic, Scientific and Quality of Life Policies | European Parliament
• Opportunity cost
• Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
• “Lumosity to Pay $2 Million to Settle FTC Deceptive Advertising Charges for Its “Brain Training” Program” from Federal Trade Commission
• Independent Games Festival
• Andy Nelson
• Danny Polak
• Three 6 Mafia
• Ayn Rand
• Marty Friedman
• Megadeth
• Square
• Rare
• Like Rats
• Weekend Nachos
• James Brown
• Pixar
• Kero Kero Bonito
• “The 7 Romantic Comedy Movie Poster Clichés” from Empire
• Being John Malkovich
• “I build a world with fantasy master N.K. Jemisin” from The Ezra Klein Show
• Jonathan Blow
• Devon Scott-Tunkin

Games Mentioned

• World of Warcraft
• Fortnite
• Acid Couch
• SimTower
• Battletoads
• BioShock
• The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
• GoldenEye 007
• Donkey Kong
• Pokémon Snap
• Ape Escape
• Call of Duty
• Ooblets

Dirk Verbeuren has played drums on more extreme metal releases than is reasonable or appropriate for any single human.

He took over for Chris Adler as the drummer for Megadeth in 2016, but that hasn’t stopped him from continuing to release underground release after underground release — including material with the recently revived Cadaver.

Dirk not only has freakish technical skill, but he also has the ability to deploy that skill as an improvisational master, an incredible mimic, or a deliberate and exacting architect of complex drumming.

Dirk is not just a musician, but is also a drum teacher. His analytical side allows him to be self-reflective and discuss what his thought process looks like while composing and playing.

And, this conversation took some unexpected turns into the dangers of conspiracy theories and why even folks with a “dark side” who gravitate toward extreme metal should still work on being more present.

Check out more from Dirk here:

• Website: www.dirkverbeuren.com | www.megadeth.com
• Instagram: @dirkverbeuren | @megadeth | @bentsea_
• Bandcamp: Bent Sea
• Radio Show: Dirk’s Extreme Blast airs on Gimme Radio

Dig into Dirk’s impressive discography and a few of his recommended releases here:

• Encyclopedia Metallum
• Sybreed “Antares”
• Obsydians “Psychodynamics”
• Tronos “Celestial Mechanics”
• Scarve “Irradiant”

If you're enjoying the show, the best way to support it is by sharing with your friends. If you don't have any friends, why not a leave a review? It makes a difference in terms of other people finding the show.

You can also subscribe to receive my e-mail newsletter at www.toddnief.com. Most of my writing never makes it to the blog, so get on that list.

Show Notes:

• [02:34] Improvisation vs having specific instructions when doing drum session work
• [07:00] Mimicry vs creativity while filling in — including for Megadeth. Dave Mustaine’s desire for everyone in the band to have creative freedom.
• [17:46] Growing up with parents supportive of Dirk’s interest in musice — including buying Cannibal Corpse and NWA records with “concerning” cover art
• [21:55] The balance between being analytical and creative — including Dirk’s interest in science as a kid and the dangers of science denialism and conspiracy theories.
• [33:20] Touring internationally and being exposed to different cultures
• [37:05] What is the difference between the ability to mimic and the ability to be creative? How can musicians learn to “turn off” their analytical side in order to be creative?
• [50:00] Learning to be more present and the dangers of overwork and burnout.
• [57:33] People into extreme music often have a “darkness,” but that doesn’t mean they can’t benefit from cultivating the skill of presence.
• [01:05:00] Dirk’s various projects: recording the new Megadeth album, Bent Sea’s new releases, starting a recording studio, running a radio show for Gimme Radio, and underappreciated gems from his discography

Links and Resources Mentioned

• Aborted “Meticulous invagination” drum part
• Megadeth “Wake Up Dead” opening groove
• Megadeth “The Conjuring” heavy part
• Wind of Change Podcast
• Jon Stewart
• Control (2007 film)
• Herzog on the obscenity of the jungle from “The Burden of Dreams”

Bands and Musicians Mentioned

• Aborted
• Soilwork
• Slayer
• Dave Lombardo
• Paul Bostaph
• Gar Samuelson
• Carmine Appice
• Vinnie Colaiuta
• Chris Poland
• The New Yorkers (Chris Poland and Gar Samuelson’s jazz fusion group)
• Scorpions
• Mikkey Dee
• Joy Division
• Hypocrisy
• Cannibal Corpse
• N.W.A.
• Red Hot Chili Peppers “One Hot Minute”
• Busta Rhymes
• Wu-Tang Clan
• Beastie Boys
• Sean Reinert
• Morbid Angel
• Repulsion
• Napalm Death
• Imperial Triumphant
• Dodecahedron
• Shane Embury
• Midnight
• Feastem
• Nasum
• Godflesh
• Justin K Broadrick

Figuring out how to prioritize in any sort of complex system is really, really difficult.

We see this all the time in working with athletes.

A simple, linear mindset results in athletes trying to do more, more, more training — and expecting to get more, more, more results.

In reality, there are trade-offs involved in any sort of training plan.

These are not just the trade-offs between the zero sum competition between training time and ability to adapt, but fundamental trade-offs between constraints being imposed on the system.

If only there were some sort of lens through which we could view the process of making trade-offs between competing priorities in complex systems…

Fortunately, Courtney Kelly is a coach and a copywriter, and she has a background in psycholinguistics.

In linguistics, there is an understanding of the way that humans generate grammar and speech based upon trade-offs between different constraints.

This theory is called “optimality theory,” and Courtney wrote a fantastic article on its application to training here.

Check out more from Courtney, Ethos Alchemy, and Strength Ratio here:

• Article: Performance optimization? How ’bout optimality theory?
• Website: www.strengthratiohq.com | www.ethosalchemy.co
• Instagram: @strengthratio | @ethos_alchemy

If you're enjoying the show, the best way to support it is by sharing with your friends. If you don't have any friends, why not a leave a review? It makes a difference in terms of other people finding the show.

You can also subscribe to receive my e-mail newsletter at www.toddnief.com. Most of my writing never makes it to the blog, so get on that list.

Show Notes:

• [01:01] A background on psycholinguistics and universal grammar — and why grammar is a lot more interesting than “just punctuation”
• [14:24] So, what is optimality theory? What does the way that humans generate speech have to tell us about trade-offs in complex systems — particularly in fitness?
• [28:10] A tangible example of the trade-offs involved in training for a triathlon vs building muscle for aesthetics
• [34:00] Optimality theory treats constraints as “binary” — not on a sliding scale
• [40:15] An grammatical example of optimality theory in action
• [49:02] The importance of having a robust theory of mind for effective communication
• [59:09] The practical applications of understanding theory of mind for copywriting and sales — how to understand clients’ hopes, fears, and dreasm
• [01:13:32] How to know when it’s ok to “exclude” someone with your copy who isn’t a good fit for your business
• [01:18:02] Learn more from Courtney, Ethos Alchemy, and Strength Ratio

Links and Resources Mentioned

• Slipknot “Psychosocial”
• Generative grammar
• Noam Chomsky
• B. F. Skinner
• Dynamic Neuromuscular Stabilization
• “Let’s face it: reading acquisition, face and word processing” from Frontiers in Psychology
• Reading Rehabilitation | American Stroke Association
• Optimality Theory
• “Optimality Theory – Constraint Interaction in Generative Grammar” by Alan Prince and Paul Smolensky
• Zach Greenwald
• Reflexive and Intensive Pronouns
• Markedness and Faithfulness Constraints
• Ruble sign
• Géraldine Legendre
• Theory of mind
• Kurt Vonnegut
• James Joyce

In this episode of "Between Two Todds," Todd Jones discusses his songwriting process for Nails and why he thinks of himself more as a "music fan" than a "musician."

Todd has a public perception that is often totally out of alignment with his actual personality. Some of this is likely a side effect of being the front man of one of the most aggressive bands currently playing in metal and hardcore.

However, we get to see Todd as an introspective and curious fan of music on his new podcast called Unsilent Death. He interviews other musicians and producers, and digs into all of the aspects of the craft of making music - from songwriting, to production, to touring.

After you listen to this episode, check out a few episodes of Unsilent Death as well.

Check out more from Todd, Nails, and the Unsilent Death podcast here:

• Website: www.unsilentdeathpodcast.com
• Podcast: Unsilent Death
• Instagram: @nailstyrrany | @unsilentdeathpodcast

If you're enjoying the show, the best way to support it is by sharing with your friends. If you don't have any friends, why not a leave a review? It makes a difference in terms of other people finding the show.

You can also subscribe to receive my e-mail newsletter at www.toddnief.com. Most of my writing never makes it to the blog, so get on that list.

Show Notes:

• [00:57] The dynamics of first discovering subcultures — and why Todd resonated so much with hardcore
• [11:15] Music as a vehicle for delivering emotion to listeners — and why Todd thinks of himself more as a "music fan" than a "musician"
• [17:14] The different roles that a musician needs to play in order to bring music into the world: actually composing the music, doing promotion in the press or in music videos, and project managing behind-the-scenes.
• [28:30] Using the The Unsilent Death podcast as an opportunity to dig into the craft of creating music with other musicians — rather than just asking the same standard interview questions
• [41:14] Todd’s songwriting process: playing punk and hardcore with tight musicianship, obsessing over the finished product, and finding ways to be creative with the framework that Nails has established
• [51:24] Writing songs based upon specific riffs — or writing songs based upon a big picture "idea" or theoretical song structure
• [01:03:07] Learn more about The Unsilent Death podcast and Nails

Links and Resources Mentioned

• Brendan Kelly
• Road to the Skeleton Coast podcast with Brendan Kelly
• Mastering (audio)
• Joe Rogan
• Feedly
• Google Reader
• Sepultura (Cavalera's Return To Roots) - Ambush & Drum Jam Solo
• Deicide "Dead by Dawn" live - with the Hoffman brothers looking jacked

Music Mentioned

• The Mighty Mighty Bosstones "Someday I Suppose"
• The Offspring "Smash"
• Minor Threat "In My Eyes"
• Youth Of Today "No More"
• The Lawrence Arms "Quincentuple Your Money"
• Slapstick "Cheat to Win"
• The Broadways "15 Minutes"
• Mother Love Bone "Stargazer"
• Operation Ivy "Sound System"
• Less Than Jake "Johnny Quest Thinks We're Sellouts"
• The Honor System "Nails"
• Alkaline Trio "Bleeder"
• Converge "Concubine"
• The Dillinger Escape Plan "43% Burnt"
• Iron Maiden "The Trooper"
• Blink-182 "First Date"
• New Found Glory "Hit Or Miss"
• Slint "Spiderland"
• Rancid "Ruby Soho"
• NOFX "Linoleum"
• Good Riddance "One for the Braves"
• Black Flag "My War"
• Ulthar "Providence"
• Averse Sefira "Deathymn"
• Deathspell Omega "Paracletus"
• Deicide "Once Upon the Cross"
• Deicide "Legion"
• The Damned "Love Song"
• Antidote "Real Deal"
• Urban Waste "Ignorant"
• Chain of Strength "True Till Death"
• Gorilla Biscuits "Start Today"
• Jerry's Kids "Is This My World"
• Sepultura "Roots Bloody Roots"
• Deicide "Lunatic Of God's Creation"
• Obituary "Slowly We Rot"
• Cannibal Corpse "Hammer Smashed Face"
• Morbid Angel "Rapture"
• Deicide "Insineratehymn"

Every small business that has any level of success hits a tipping point where the fact that business is going "kind of well" becomes the most stressful thing to the founders. I vividly remember hitting this point with South Loop Strength & Conditioning several years ago. The gnawing worry that we were missing something or doing something wrong with our business was replaced with a constant feeling of suffocating in emails, meetings, coaching, and duct taping together the cracks splitting apart in seemingly every area of the business. Every business book says that all you have to do is "systemize and delegate." Well, what happens when none of the tasks that you delegate get done properly, you find out your employees are doing crazy things when you’re not in the building, and it seems like everyone hates each other? In the fitness industry, "management" is seen as something for stuffy suits in office jobs. But, a lack of management results in something much worse taking its place. Sarah Sentes taught the Manager Tools conference that Paul and I attended several years back - and that was a game changer for operations at SLSC. I wanted to have Sarah on the podcast to talk about practical takeaways in management for people who hate the idea of managing - particularly those in the start-up scene or involved in the fitness industry.

Check out more from Sarah and Manager Tools here:

• Website: Manager Tools
• Podcast: Manager Tools | Career Tools | Manager Tools Basics

If you're enjoying the show, the best way to support it is by sharing with your friends. If you don't have any friends, why not a leave a review? It makes a difference in terms of other people finding the show.

You can also subscribe to receive my e-mail newsletter at www.toddnief.com. Most of my writing never makes it to the blog, so get on that list.

Show Notes:

• [01:11] Sarah’s background in managing IT professionals – without a technical background. How should managers deal with impostor syndrome?
• [08:58] People often bristle at management – especially in start-ups or in the fitness industry. What are the costs of not having management structure in place?
• [16:30] How do organizations know when they are at the tipping point where they should start implementing formal management?
• [23:59] If you don’t have management structure, something more nefarious and toxic – aka “politics” and “clicqueiness” – will take its place.
• [28:50] Relationships are the foundation of good management. Without solid relationships, people find negative explanations for decisions.
• [33:10] Why even people who “hate meetings” should do regular one-on-ones
• [41:20] What management principles can coaches apply to working with their clients? How can coaches deliver helpful feedback to clients?
• [48:23] How to prioritize when and where to give feedback. Feedback is for the future, not the past.
• [54:46] Should people give use the “shit sandwich” to give feedbacK?
• [59:00] What are the most actionable starting points for people looking to implement management structure?
• [01:02:57] Where should people start with Manager Tools?

Links and Resources Mentioned

• Impostor syndrome
• Goodhart’s law
• “Role Power Revisited” from Manager Tools
• “Assume Positive Intent” from Manager Tools

Wayne is the principal in residence at KIPP Team Academy in Newark, New Jersey. I’ve wanted to have Wayne on the show for awhile to talk about education since I’m endlessly fascinated with learning, learning about learning, teaching, teaching others to teach, and basically every other possible recursion and iteration of the words "teach" and "learn." Given the climate in the world right now, we discuss Wayne’s expertise through the lens of suddenly transitioning into remote learning due to COVID-19. We also discuss the climate of race in 2020 and Wayne’s experiences as a black, gay man. We also dig into the pending "cancellation" of Greg Glassman, the founder of CrossFit, and we work through how to reconcile someone’s contributions with their toxic personal behavior. There’s a lot of hot button and potentially dangerous issues in this conversation, so I appreciate Wayne being vulnerable. Hopefully we were able to touch these topics in a nuanced and helpful way.

Check out more from Wayne and KIPP here:

• Website: KIPP TEAM Academy
• Instagram: @banksylifts

If you're enjoying the show, the best way to support it is by sharing with your friends. If you don't have any friends, why not a leave a review? It makes a difference in terms of other people finding the show.

You can also subscribe to receive my e-mail newsletter at www.toddnief.com. Most of my writing never makes it to the blog, so get on that list.

Show Notes:

• [02:42] Wayne’s experience suddenly transitioning into online learning - and also likely having COVID-19 in February. Also, the importance of access to resources in education to facilitate moving to online education.
• [14:20] How can children engage in self-guided learning? How can educators? Facilitate self-guided learning?
• [22:15] What is the role of motivation in learning? How is Wayne preparing for a likely "middle ground" in the future with some online learning and some in-person learning?
• [28:45] What transfers over from an in-person learning environment into an online learning environment?
• [36:04] How to have high expectations and "hold someone’s feet to the fire" - both in managing teachers and in educating children.
• [47:30] What have we seen exposed as far as systemic inequalities through both COVID-19 and the protests in response to the killing of George Floyd?
• [58:52] What are Wayne’s recommendations for self-educating regarding social justice issues? How should we think about racism in our current society?
• [01:11:10] How should we think about "cancel culture" - and what are some unintended consequences of online shaming?
• [01:23:23] How do we reconcile the contributions of people who are unethical in their personal lives but who have made important contributions to their field? This is especially timely in the context of Greg Glassman, the founder and former CEO of CrossFit.
• [01:30:55] How to learn more from Wayne

Links and Resources Mentioned

• "The Results Are In for Remote Learning: It Didn’t Work" from the Wall Street Journal
• Khan Academy
• "Talking to Strangers" by Malcolm Gladwell
• "Radical Candor" by Kim Scott
• Stonewall riots
• "The Death and Life of Marsha P. Johnson"
• "13th"
• Jane Elliott
• Video of Jane Elliott's brown eyes and blue eyes experiement
• "Counting Prison Inmates Differently Could Shift Political Power to Cities" from The Pew Charitable Trusts
• 'Head Of CrossFit Retires After Telling Staff On A Zoom Call, “We're Not Mourning For George Floyd”' from Buzzfeed
• "James Watson Had a Chance to Salvage His Reputation on Race. He Made Things Worse." from The New York Times
• "In Defense of Greg Glassman" from Dale Saran