Whenever I talk with the owner of a business or professional practice who is struggling to attract more clients, they inevitably tell me that they are either in the process of planning out a new website, or working with someone to build a new website, or updating or completely overhauling their existing website, and I am frequently forced to point out that a website alone is very unlikely to fix your business problems.

David:                   Hi and welcome to the podcast today co-host Chris Templeton and I will discuss why a website will probably not fix your business problems. Welcome back Chris.

Chris:                     Thank you David. Nice to be here. A lot of professionals seem to put so much stock that their website is going to grow and scale their business. What makes you think that it's not going to solve their problems, David?

David:                   Well, a website is usually an extension or a visual representation of the business, so if you're not making enough sales then your website is only going to continue or amplify whatever is happening.  It becomes a reflection of what you're doing off the website, which obviously already isn't working. So simply adding that to a website is not likely to change things, but it seems to be the Go-To thing. Everybody always is talking about this website like it's going to somehow revolutionize their business.

Chris:                     And so, are you saying that if you don't have good sales that it's more than just the website or is it only the website?

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David:                   No, the issue is definitely not limited to websites. In fact, it sort of goes back to what we talked about in a previous podcast about marketing vehicles that we used, and how some people put their entire faith in the marketing vehicle. In this case, the website, and completely forget about the fact that it's not just the delivery mechanism, i.e. the website, that matters. It's, you know, what's the messaging that's going on there? What am I trying to accomplish? Have I created this sort of greased chute that we've also talked about in previous podcasts? It's designed to attract people, pull them in, gather information, turn them from total strangers into prospects by giving me their information so that we can then have a conversation with them or interact with them and eventually turn them into clients.  So people think that a website should automatically do that, but very often they're just not even built that way. They're not even designed that way. They're not well thought out, and they're certainly not designed to accomplish the kind of results that people often would like to get from a website.

Chris:                     When you think about a website and the mistakes that professionals make, what do you think are the biggest mistakes they make in terms of their online presence and their websites?

David:                   I think it starts with thinking that the website is going to be their entire solution. They think, okay, well once I have this website, everything's going to be wonderful. Now there are online businesses like Amazon, where the website is the business. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about, for most people who are in business, if you have a business or a professional practice and you're using a website; if you don't recognize that it's a tool. It's not a substitute for a sales team. It's not a substitute for a marketing department. It's a tool, like a business card or a brochure or a catalog or a vending machine. It's a tool and many websites are designed like that. Some are designed to be like a business card, or a brochure where it just provides information. Some are designed to be like a catalog where there's just tons of information and data that people can access. Some are designed to be a vending machine where somebody can come to it and they can order something and they can have it shipped to them or if it's digital they can digitally download it and they can place their order online and it happens like that. So there are situations like that where the website plays a more important role, but once again it has to be designed like that; and most businesses that I've had these conversations with are generally not website-centric. They are in a lot of cases, brick and mortar businesses or they're brick and mortar and they have an online presence and they want to utilize the website to be able to enhance that online presence, but they haven't really figured out how to do it. It's a little like building a house without having a blueprint first.

Chris:                     And having a real clear understanding of where that website sits in the sales process too, wouldn't you say?

David:                   Yeah, and the website itself may be symptomatic of the problem, but it's probably not the problem. In other words, there's something before the website that isn't working and if you don't identify what that is, then the website itself is not going to be likely to fix it. Another mistake, you'd asked about mistakes, and this one I think is a big one.  Is in a lot of cases, business owners will trust a total stranger, very often a designer or a web developer to know their business and to be able to explain their business better than they do; and that is very rarely, if ever, a winning scenario because that's not their job. You hire somebody whose job it is to make words look pretty, and then you delegate to them the task of explaining your business better than you can do it, and that just doesn't work.

Chris:                     Which is a really, really great point and I think you're right, it is an unrealistic expectation for a business owner to think that a web designer is going to be the person that can explain your business better. But what's the solution to that? Like how do I help a web designer or developer to be able to portray my business in the way that I want it? Is it consulting from a sales and marketing standpoint? What do you see as a solution for that?

David:                   Well, if you're going to have somebody design a website for you, I believe you need to provide them with the majority of the content, whatever that content is, you need to be able to deliver it to them because if you're expecting them to come up with it, it's just not going to work. So if you're not clear on your messaging, you're not going to know what to put there in the first place. Many people want to delegate that rather than figuring it out for themselves and you are always far better off figuring it out for yourself. What do you want to have happen when people come to the website? And a lot of times designers won't ask you that. They'll ask you about the colors you want to use, they’ll ask you about your logo, they’ll ask you about white space, or they'll tell you about white space. And those things are not going to be the deciding factors when it comes to generating revenue on your website. It's just not going to happen. You can have an ugly website with good content that will outperform a beautiful website with little to no good content every single time.

Chris:                     And you know, in terms of where things are going with search engines and that sort of thing. One of the things that we're seeing over and over again is the importance of current content. That it's not something that's just static, that there's blog posts and that sort of thing. Talk a little bit about what else they can do once they've got good content to create more of it on a regular basis.

David:                   Okay. Well a couple of good points right there. One is that a designer or a web developer actually can be very helpful in that regard. Once you've got the good content, there are people who will be able to help you to get it in front of the people that you need to reach. And if you're doing a lot of it yourself, if you have a WordPress blog or something like that, you know, you can certainly do things with meta tags where you're adding in keywords and you're adding in a sentence or two that describe the primary benefit of the page so that when people go on a search engine, they're going to be more likely to find it. So there are people who can be helpful to you in that regard, but it all has to start with you. Until and unless you've got a crystal clear idea of what you need to communicate to your market, there is not a web designer in the world that's going to be able to help you.

Chris:                     And it really does go back to things like features and benefits and understanding from the client's standpoint what's going to move them, isn't it?

David:                   Yeah. And figuring out what are the problems they have. Because if you're relying on any sort of organic search, chances are people are going to be typing in a problem they're having. They're not likely to be typing in the product or service that you offer. That would be too easy, right? They're going to be talking about some sort of problem. So you need to make sure that your content ties into that. And then they read your content and they recognize that you understand the problem and then they say, “Okay, this person understands my problem and is able to express it better than I can. Maybe they also have the solution.” And that's when they're going to initiate a dialogue with you.

Chris:                     And again, I think the other thing that's so important to be talking about in regards to the website is what its role is in your sales process. You know, I had a guy that said to me, a website now is like the modern day version of driving by a business in the old days.  And being able to say, okay, so maybe part of it's credibility, but what other parts of the sales process does this help? And then of course, then the other question is what's before and what's after that?...

In our Total Market Domination course, we identified Three Pillars to Creating Top of Mind Awareness with the very best prospects for the products and services you offer.  Today, we'll give you an overview of the 3 pillars so you can determine how well you're implementing them in your own business.

David:                   Hi and welcome to the podcast today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be discussing the Three Pillars to Creating Top of Mind Awareness. Welcome Chris.

Chris:                     Hi David. You know in previous episodes we've talked about the importance of top of mind awareness and today we're going to talk about three major steps that'll help achieve it. So what are the three pillars?

David:                   Okay, well, when we look at three pillars of creating top of mind awareness, it starts with positive, memorable, first contact. What's going to be that first impression they get of us? From there it moves to lightning fast follow-up, having interactions with people that actually move, that allows you to create a little bit of momentum and be able to accelerate things; and then the third pillar is intelligent repetition of contact. Something we've certainly talked about before, but it is critical when you're looking to create that level of top of mind awareness.

Chris:                     Let's start with memorable first contact. What percentage of businesses do you think do this effectively?

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David:                   Not a large percentage, at least in my experience. I think it's something that is often overlooked. People don't normally think about it. A lot of people don't even think of it in those terms. Many people think in terms of cold calling or prospecting or whatever. The reason that I use the term first contact is because I really like to make the point that whatever it is that you're doing first in your interaction with a new prospect is really going to set the tone and so when you're thinking about it in terms of what is the first contact going to be, you can be a little more fussy about it. You can really think through, okay, what would be the ideal scenario of a meeting with someone?  Let's say you realized you're somehow going to end up meeting Bill Gates or somebody who has a lot of money and perhaps, an ability to spend money with you.  You would want that interaction to be good. And the reality of the situation is that if you're smart, you want that kind of thing to happen with every prospect you meet; so that they're impressed enough to want to do business with you, regardless of whether or not you end up wanting to do business with them.  You realize they're under-qualified, it's better if you get to say no than if they're saying no to you.

Chris:                     Boy no kidding. And one of the things that I think that's important to talk about in regards to this positive, memorable first contact, is I don't think that a lot of businesses really think this through.  Like, what can I say? What can I do that's gonna make that memorable? And so, talk a little bit about what it is in your mind that businesses can do to be more memorable, especially on that first contact; which matters so much, doesn't it?

David:                   It does. And when I say positive and memorable and one of the analogies used in the past, a note wrapped around a rock thrown through a window is first contact, but it's not positive and it is memorable. So you want to make sure that you're accomplishing both. It needs to be positive and it needs to be memorable. And so when we decide what that's going to be, you initially think of something like a cold call and just the words by itself almost tells you, okay, is this really going to be seen as positive and memorable? And generally speaking, the answer is going to be no, but if you think through it and you say, okay, well what would that cold call have to be like if I wanted it to be positive and memorable? What would have to be said on that phone? And maybe there's no good answer to that, but the good news is that it doesn't have to be a cold call. There are lots of other ways of initiating first contact. It could be a direct mail piece, could be lumpy mail. You're sending them a gift in the mail in advance of contacting them some other way. It could be a video or some sort of post on social media. There are lots of different ways of initiating first contact. It could be a connection request on LinkedIn or a friend request on Facebook. So lots of different ways to do it that are going to each create a different impression. So when you think through the options and you recognize that there are really lots of different ways to do it, it just sort of opens things up for you. It allows you to realize that there's not just one way to accomplish this. And in most cases there's probably a better way than whatever it is that you're doing now.

Chris:                     At some level, I almost wonder if the place to start, whether you plan on doing it or not, is the cold call approach from the standpoint of if I can come up with some way to make it positive; right?  Which is the toughest part and memorable. Then figuring out any other piece may even be simpler. I mean, if I can figure out a way that I can get comfortable with saying something in a cold call that is positive about me and helps that person to let their barriers down, I probably really have a good first start on anything else that I do.

David:                   Yeah. The challenge though is if I want to say something positive and memorable about myself to you, what's the likelihood that you're going to find that interesting?

Chris:                     Right, right.

David:                   It needs to be positive from their standpoint and memorable from their standpoint and that's why it's such a challenge and that's why I feel like there are so many other ways that in effect, it's easier to create something positive and memorable if it's not a cold call. Now that said, there are people who are great at cold calls and they're able to accomplish exactly that, and if a listener who is listening to this podcast is one of them, I'm certainly not going to discourage you from doing that. I'm just saying if you look at all the options, you can ask yourself, okay, is there something better?

Chris:                     Right. Absolutely. Finding whatever your method is. I think you've really hit it from the standpoint of it being positive, especially in this day and age where there is such an almost predisposition to have a negative reaction. I mean I think about the days of spam and there's been a sea change in how we react to a lot of marketing pieces out there. Wouldn't you say?

David:                   Yes, and if you think also in terms of advertising that's actually gotten your attention that you've viewed in a positive light, it can be done. It's not as if advertising is a terrible thing and it's all going to be viewed as people just trying to take over your brain. I mean there is some of that, but if you can create any sort of ad that actually engages people, attracts their attention and gets them to click through, watch a video and engage with you, that can absolutely be positive and memorable, but you really want to try to orchestrate that experience as much as possible. You don't want to just leave it to chance.

Chris:                     Do you think that having it be a little bit light or even a little bit funny is helpful?

David:                   It can be. I mean there's some people who are too funny for their own good. They're too cute for their own good. Right? And if you've ever seen an ad where you said, “Oh, I saw this great ad, it was really funny and this happened and that happened…” and they say, “Who's the ad for?” And you say, “I have no idea.” If that's ever happened to you. That's an example of people being too cute for their own good. But when people are able to create an ad that not only allows you to remember what happened so that you can talk about it and if it's entertaining, you can relay it to friends. But if it ties to the message of what it is that they're selling, then you actually get the benefit of the best of both worlds. You get the entertainment value, but you also get the content value.

Chris:                     So, let's talk about the second pillar. Lightning fast follow up.  It seems so obvious to me and in a lot of ways it's easier than ever, but is it that necessary?

David:                   Well, yeah.  These days, lightning fast follow-up is absolutely necessary because if you don't, someone else will and you'll lose the business. Communication has never been easier in a sense and more overwhelming in another sense. 10 years ago, 15 years ago, people primarily communicated in person and on the phone. Now you've got all these different methods of communication including texting and social media and messaging and all kinds of different ways to communicate. So people are more available, they're more accessible, but in a lot of cases they're also more guarded. And so when it comes to them actually wanting something from you, if you're not going to be responding quickly, you're at a distinct disadvantage because there will always be someone who is going to want the business more and as a result perhaps be more responsive. So it's something we really all need to focus on. I think probably anyone who is decent at business and who likes doing business with other people recognizes that they need to be responsive to people. And sometimes we get frustrated because we feel like we can't, we're just so busy doing other things that we feel like we can't follow up as well as we could and at that point we really need to address, okay, well how can I make this happen? Do I need to hire a virtual assistant? Do I need to better allocate my own time?...

It's easy to get distracted in the blizzard of activities that we have going on all around us every single day. But unless those activities include a significant number of wins, you'll never achieve the goals you've set for yourself. And if you don't pay attention to your wins, it's easy to become discouraged. So, are you winning today? And if so, are you tracking your wins?

David:                   Hi and welcome to the podcast! Today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about your daily wins. Do you have any, do you know what they are, and are you tracking them? Welcome Chris.

Chris:                     Hi David. Thanks for doing this. This is a really, really important subject. It seems to me that every business owner or salesperson must accomplish wins on a regular basis or they wouldn't be successful in what they do; but isn't a win different for everybody? And why do you say it's necessary to keep track of them?

David:                   Okay, well, two questions there. Is it different for everyone? The answer there is yes. Certainly, depending on your job, a win could be something different. If I'm in accounts receivable than a win for me is collecting money, right? If I'm in sales than a win for me could be getting in front of a new prospect, finding a new market that I want to target, fine tuning my message to engage more people, initiating a new client outreach. There are lots of different things that could count as wins for me depending on my position within the organization, but from the standpoint of getting customers - as a business owner or as a salesperson, as any sort of professional who needs customers - then it's really about looking at those types of activities. Things like meeting a new prospect at a networking function, or reactivating a previous client who hasn't bought from you in a while, or getting a new prospect to close for the first time. So there are very specific things that during the course of the day are probably happening and if they're not, then you want to make sure that you start getting more of those types of things going on.

Chris:                     A big piece of this is really taking the time to recognize where you're having successes because that really does fuel your performance as a salesperson, doesn't it?

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David:                   Yes. And when you take the time to do it and getting through the second part of your question, why is it necessary to track them? It allows you to realize what's going on. So very often on a day to day basis, we are just dealing with, you know, the whole whirlwind of events that's going on and it's easy to lose sight of the fact that we are moving forward in some areas and there are some days where we're not, let's be frank about it. There are some days where we're not, we're just putting out fires and we're not really moving the needle on anything. But when we take the time to track the wins and to recognize, okay, I want to get at least let's say three wins going today, what are three things that I could count as a win? Today, I can say I recorded a podcast that’s going out to lots of people. For me, that's a win, right? I had a chance to talk to Chris today. That's a win, right? It's two wins in one activity, but you can look at the different things that you're involved in and say, okay, what worked? I mean this morning I had several conversations with a couple of prospective clients, so that's two or three wins, right? Because I had those conversations. So you look at the activities you're engaged in and you say, okay, which of them count as wins? And which of them sort of just count as time-wasters or placeholders because it's a lot easier sometimes to track placeholders than it is to track wins.

Chris:                     Right. And I look at this and I think, well, how do I define what a win is as a sales-guy or as a business owner? I mean, you've talked about a couple, but do you sit down and think about, okay, these are the things? And I think the other thing that comes to mind is just the whole idea of having consistent wins. What defines it and how do you create consistency? Does that become one of the definitions of a win?

David:                   Well, if you're able to accomplish a few wins every day, that's your consistency component. If you have five wins today and then no wins for the next 10 days, that is not good consistency, that's not going to be good for your business. So I think recognizing and keeping track of the wins that happen on a day to day basis, that brings you the consistency component because it's very likely, as I said, that there are things that you are doing on a daily basis that are moving you forward. So getting back to the question about what defines a win; whenever you're taking a step that moves you forward in what you're looking to do, whenever you're engaged in positive actions that will allow you to know that you're creating the results that you want. That to me is a win. We had talked in a previous podcast about the difference between lag measures and lead measures. That's a concept that came from the book, The Four Disciplines of Execution. And so the idea of a lag measure is something that you measure at the end of the month. Our monthly sales were X. Okay? It's something that happened in the past. You can't really do anything to influence it. When you look at lead measures, these are the things that you're going to do to increase your sales by the end of the month. So the lead measures are the specific actions that you take. So you look at the things that you have to do on a daily basis to move your business forward, and you ask yourself, how many of those things did I do? And I'm going to jot that down as a win, I'm going to consider that a win for today. Can I get three wins out of the day? Can I get five wins out of the day? Can I get ten wins out of the day? I mean, if you get three to five, you're probably doing better than most people. And even if you're getting three to five in a day and you don't recognize it, if you don't track it, then you don't even realize the things that are causing you to be successful.

Chris:                     Right. You know, one of the things though that I think we need to help listeners with is kind of defining - what is a good win? So, for instance, if I say, well, I sent out a hundred emails today that’s probably not as strong of a win as scheduling an appointment with somebody to talk about your product, right? So how do you help people to kind of determine what wins they should be focusing on?

David:                   Well, it's going to depend on the emails you sent out. If I send out a hundred emails to targeted prospects who are interested in what I have to offer, and if thirty of them responded to it, then that's a big win. I mean, that can actually be several wins. I crafted an email that I wanted to send out to a hundred people. Maybe I did that on Monday. On Tuesday, I selected a list of the ideal people who should receive this message. That's a win for Tuesday. And then on Wednesday I sent out that ideal message to that ideal prospect and I used my marketing vehicle. Okay, we're doing MVPs of marketing again. So now that's my third win is that I actually got it out in front of people, and then hopefully as a result of taking those three positive actions, those three wins the next day, I've heard back from a bunch of those people. I've engaged some of them in conversation, I'm providing quotes for people and all of those things become wins as well. So I think it's important not to disregard things because you say, okay, one thing is more of a win than another. If it's a win, it's a win. And if you engage in two wins and one's a tremendous win and one's not as much of a win, they're both still wins. It's like, okay, if I'm playing baseball and I say, well, I'm only going to go for home runs, singles, doubles and triples, don't count. You're missing out.

Chris:                     I also kind of equate this to the sales funnel a little bit. Where you know you've got leads at the top and then somebody who's buying at the bottom; different things that you track are going to have greater impact than others, but sometimes the things that have the least impact are also the ones that begin to build the funnel, aren't they?

David:                   Yes, and one of the advantages of tracking your wins is that when good things start to happen, you'll look at it and you'll say, okay, what was it? What was the behavior that created that? Did I get this lead today because of those emails that I sent out last Wednesday? Did I get this as a result of an ad that I put up on Facebook and the person responded to that? There is some sort of previous win that probably resulted in this win, and the better you get at connecting the dots between those wins, the better off you're going to be able to replicate that and cause it to happen again in the future.

Chris:                     And so I also take it then from that standpoint that as I go through this process over time, I also recognize the wins that are getting the results that I want are also the things that I want to be doing more of and the ones that aren't, I can kind of push to the side. Right?

David:                   Absolutely. And when you're looking at your daily wins and you say, okay, how much time did that take? I've logged three daily wins for today and I look at the time that it took and I realize that it took a total of maybe 45 minutes out of an eight or 10 hour day. Then I can ask myself, okay, what was I doing the rest of the time? What was I doing with the rest of that day and are there other activities in there that I could count as wins? And if not, then how many of those activities could potentially be eliminated? Because if it's not a win or if it's not going to lead to a win,...

Social media doesn't work. Cold calling doesn't work. Print advertising doesn't work. Email is dead! Whenever an advertiser is unable to make a particular marketing vehicle work, they often blame the delivery mechanism and declare it either dead or ineffective. But what if the problem isn't the marketing vehicle? What if it's just the way you're using it?

David:                   Hi and welcome to the podcast. Today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about marketing vehicles, which ones work, and which ones don't. Welcome Chris!

Chris:                     Hi David! In a previous podcast we talked about the MVP of marketing and sales. What's the marketing message we're communicating? Which combination of marketing vehicles will we use to communicate the message? And which people or prospects do we plan to reach? But today we're going to take a closer look at the marketing vehicles and try to figure out why so many people tend to blame the marketing vehicle when things go wrong.  What's up with that?

David:                   Yeah, what is up with that? Well, it's easier than taking responsibility for the failure of any campaign. Because really what we're talking about here in terms of any sort of communication is the MVPs. You know, what's the message I'm conveying? Which combination of marketing vehicles will I use to communicate the message? And who are the people or prospects that I want to reach? So if I post a bunch of social media messages and no one responds... if no one likes it, nobody looks at it, it's far easier for me to blame the media than to ask if what I'm posting is compelling enough. If I run a paid ad somewhere and no one responds to it, it's easier for me to blame the delivery mechanism than it is to think that my well-crafted, beautiful offer is somehow inadequate or unappealing. It forces me to blame myself instead of the medium. And in a lot of cases it's just easier to blame the marketing vehicle or the medium that we're using.

Chris:                     But that doesn't serve us much, does it though?

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David:                   No, because when a particular marketing vehicle isn't working for us, it doesn't mean the entire vehicle itself is flawed. It might just be the way that we're using it and when we understand that we're going to be on the path to be able to start to fix these things rather than just become a victim of them.

Chris:                     Again, it goes back to the whole piece that we did on who's the buyer and looking at this and saying, what are the things that I need to look out for myself? It's so easy to blame the vehicle, but there's so many things that we can do to improve how we perform on any of those vehicles, including consistency. But let's start with cold calling. Lots of people are not big fans of it. It can be intrusive. It's usually unwelcome and it often disrupts a person's day. But is it effective?

Is Cold Calling Effective?

David:                   Well, it can be and cold calling is not my favorite form of first contact, but it doesn't really matter that it's not my favorite form of first contact because for some people it works very well. I mean, I personally don't like it from a positioning standpoint, but some people are great at it and they swear by it and they're able to generate customers with it. So from that standpoint, for them it is absolutely effective. That's where I think we run into trouble is just because cold calling is not my preferred method of initiating contact with a new prospect doesn't mean that it doesn't work. So if I say something like, "Oh, cold calling stinks, that doesn't work." It's just not true. It's not factually true. And no matter how much I dislike a particular marketing method, for me to summarily dismiss anyone's preferred method of marketing, it's not right. It's not honest. Because for some people, different types of marketing are going to work.

Chris:                     And the other thing to keep in mind is if cold calling isn't for you, but you recognize its value, there are ways to get people to do the initial cold call. And let's face facts. For me as a business owner, once I know somebody who's interested, I have no problem with making the calls. It's that tough call, the cold call where I don't know if they have an interest, go find somebody who loves to do it. There are people out there that love to do it, aren't there?

David:                   There are, and as I said, I mean I'm not a big fan of it myself. I have not made a cold call in a long time, but I have paid other people to do it.  So, it continues to happen whether I'm doing it or not.

Social media, email & advertising

Chris:                     Yep. Good point. Should people focus on one primary method of communication or do you think it's better to mix it up? What's your sense on that?

David:                   Well, I think it's definitely better if you mix it up. I tend to favor a varied approach because I think it creates a different experience when we do that. If all I do is call you on the phone, right? If I'm trying to sell you something and I have your phone number, Chris, and I'm calling you whatever, every couple of days or every couple of weeks, and I'm trying to find out if you want to buy what it is that I'm selling. That can get old pretty quickly because you're kind of used to, okay, this guy is calling me on the phone and trying to sell me something. But if we were to take more of a varied approach where maybe you visited my website and maybe as a result of visiting my website, you've been cookied and so now when you're on Facebook, you're seeing an ad for something that I offer that could potentially be of interest to you. Now you're seeing me on there as well.  As a result of stopping by my website, maybe you've opted in to receive a special report that I offer a free report or something like that. So, you're also getting emails with the free report and with the follow-ups to the free report. So now it's a combination approach. You're seeing my ads on Facebook, you're getting my emails with a follow-up to the information you requested and then if I'm contacting you on the phone now it seems like a continuation of something else as opposed to the one thing I'm doing, like I'm just calling.  So when you're able to accomplish this, what ends up happening is people seem to feel like you're everywhere they look and the better you can create that environment in which you are essentially everywhere they look; then you start to become more present to them and they look that and say, “Okay, this person must really be good because I'm seeing them everywhere.” Not realizing that you have orchestrated that.

Chris:                     You know, one of the things that I think is really important to talk about is retargeting, which is the piece that you're talking about where five years ago that was a really scary thing, but I think now people are in a much different place with finding ads for sites that I've visited popping up in other places. Wouldn't you agree with that?

David:                   Well, yeah. People are more used to it, but also a lot of times people don't think about it. I mean they're on there, they're seeing all kinds of ads for all kinds of things and they're ignoring most of them and it may be that they're ignoring your ads as well, but somewhere in the back corner of their mind they're recognizing it. They're recognizing the fact that this is there, and it starts to permeate the brain.  And if they see those ads after visiting your website and then if you're contacting them a month or so later, they're going to be a lot more likely to be familiar with your company, with your brand because they've been seeing it whether or not they've been paying attention to it.

Consistency across messaging

Chris:                     And now it's test time. If anybody listening to our last podcast, one of the primary focuses we had was consistency across messaging. Talk a little bit about that, David.

David:                   Right, you want to make sure that people can essentially follow the scent. It's like a hunting dog, the, you know, the dog wants to pick up on a particular scent and follow it through. If you've got different forms of communication and they're all conveying a very similar message, then they're able to follow the scent and all make sense. If you've got three different ads talking about three different things, then there's going to be a disconnect. They're not going to perceive it as part of the same thing. It's going to be disjointed or disconnected. There are a lot of people who run all kinds of ads and you see the ad and what's in the ad is very appealing and then you click through the ad and it takes you to the homepage of their website, which doesn't address at all whatever it was that was in the ad. So they make you dig for it and people will not dig for it. They'll get to it. There will be a disconnect. Their mind will say, "this isn't what I clicked on" and they'll go away. So making sure that there's a consistency between the ad that you're running and then wherever you're directing the person to. And then if you're offering them something free, that all of that is consistent so that when they get to the point where they have to enter their name and their information to receive more information from you, they feel comfortable doing it because they know exactly what it is that's being asked of them.

Chris:                     You made a comment on the last podcast about helping the buyer insert themselves into the story. This is again, that whole idea of a path that they can follow that makes sense, that's consistent, the messaging is similar. If I can create that story, I've just done myself a huge favor in my sales. Haven’t I?

David:                   Yeah,...

Until you get crystal clear on your basic messaging, who you serve and how you serve them, you'll find yourself attracting either no clients at all or the wrong clients, and your customer acquisition efforts will take a whole lot longer.

David:                   Hi, and welcome to the podcast.  Today co-host Chris Templeton, and I will be talking about the idea of getting clear on your basic messaging. Welcome back, Chris. That's my basic message.

Chris:                     I like that basic message. You'd think that most business owners and salespeople would already be clear on at least their basic messaging, but that is not always the case, is it?

David:                   No, it's surprising how often it's not the case. Very often people think in terms of just their products and services instead of the needs they fill and the problems they solve. And as we discussed in a previous podcast, there's a big difference between product buyers and solution buyers.

David:                   And there are always a lot more people who are willing to pay for solutions. So the better we get at crafting our messaging so that it's directed to the things they really want and need in their lives and in their businesses, the better off they're going to be in terms of getting what they need and the better off we're going to be in terms of being able to provide the solutions they need.

Chris:                     What do you think the biggest problems are in terms of people developing what their messaging is going to be?

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David:                   I think a really big problem is that much of it is "me focused." It's all about me and my business and what I do and how I do things, and it's not enough about them. It's not enough about the prospects and clients that we're actually trying to appeal to. So if I had to rank them in order, I would say that's first too much me-centric communication.

Chris:                     Yep.

Product-Focused vs. Solution-Focused Messaging

David:                   A second thing I would say is that it's product-focused instead of solutions focused, which is what we were just talking about a moment ago. When we're talking about the product itself or the service itself, then we're not focused on what it is that they're trying to accomplish. And before we can ever get to the solution, we need to sort of stir up the problem side of it a bit.

So when we're talking to them about what they're looking to accomplish and what it means in their business or what it means in their life to accomplish this, that's what really gets them focused on the idea that they need it. And so when we leave out this component; talking to them about the issues they're facing before we recommend our solution, then we're missing out because they're thinking of it in terms of something that might be okay to have, but they're not thinking of it in terms of something that they really desperately need.

Once again, that comes from focusing too much on our product and not enough on them and what they're looking for.

Chris:                     Give people an example of what that looks like and a little more detail in terms of stirring up that need.

David:                   Well, it’s depending on what it is that's being sold. If I start talking to you about sales training, for example, “Hey, we sell sales training, we help train salespeople and we're really good at sales training.” People think I don't necessarily need that. Why do I need that?

But if we're talking to them about, “Hey, listen, how much are your salespeople costing you when they're out in the field and they're not doing the job that you've paid them to do? Have you had situations where you've got salespeople and they're out there approaching the wrong people and saying the wrong things? They're not closing sales and they're leaving long gaps in between communications? They're creating a situation where they give your business a black-eye because don't do what needs to be done in terms of communication? They fail to present what you're able to do and the way you're able to do it or the way that you want that to happen?”

That's an example of creating a scenario where they look at it and say, “Oh wow. Yeah.” Either that is happening, in which case I might be able to see the need for sales training or they say, “No, that's not happening. All my people are great.” In which case they're not really qualified.

Chris:                     And that's okay too. But you know, I think that that's really important in terms of getting to, what's the story that you can help them to be aware of? It's not doom and gloom. It's more about, Hey, these are the types of common things that I see from where I sit with the people that buy my products.

They want to have their people be more effective or they want them to be communicating more often as salespeople. Those sorts of things really help to frame up and get the person who probably, especially if you're on an initial call is probably resistant anyway, and now what you've done is you've completely shifted the focus from me with the product to sell, to you and the need, right?

David:                   Yes. And it goes for whatever product it is that someone is selling. You know, if I'm a realtor and my job is to develop real estate clients, then talking to them about all the properties that I have right off the bat probably isn't a good approach.

It might be better to talk to them about, “Hey, listen, have you ever had a situation where you approached a realtor and they were trying to figure out what you needed and they just couldn't get a handle on what you're looking for and you wasted lots of time and burned lots of weekends looking at places that just didn't meet your needs at all?”

You know, that type of thing. You're creating a scenario where they can say, "Oh yeah, I have had that situation." And then you talk about how you are different. This is how we position ourselves differently.

Painting Mental Pictures with Your Messaging

So no matter what you're selling, you need to have a clear idea about some of the issues this prospect might be facing. Can I paint a picture of that for them? Can I paint a negative picture of potentially doing business somewhere else first? Then can I paint a positive picture of what happens when they're doing business with you? That's sort of an ideal scenario in terms of messaging: to be able to create that contrast between what they're likely to experience elsewhere and what they're likely to experience with you.

Chris:                     Okay, so I'm going to have you do that again because it's important. You think about the pieces of advice that we give on this and we talked about you know, how to get to the decision maker in the last podcast. This is huge starting with issues that the prospect may have.  Right? And go through that process one more time just for good measure.

David:                   Okay. Well, it's simply thinking it through from their perspective. What types of obstacles might they run into? What type of situations might have them feeling infuriated? We do a lot of business in the promotional products industry and the print industry. Many printers and promotional products people find that their clients might have had experiences before where things didn't happen exactly the way they want them to.

Maybe they didn't get the ideas they needed. Perhaps the stuff wasn't delivered on time. Or maybe it wasn't printed the way they wanted it. All these types of things.

So when you're interacting with a new prospect for the first time, you may be able to paint those pictures and say, “Hey, have you had much experience dealing with companies like ours? Because a lot of the reason that we get the business we get is that we are able to overcome a lot of the problems that other companies face. For example, if you ever had a midnight madness sale and the product you ordered arrived the day after that, then you know that's problematic, right?"

So you can look at the situation, ask them questions, and maybe they haven't had that exact experience. Maybe they say, “Well, no, the person that I've had has been pretty good…” But you might be able to find some issues they've had along the way and then counter-program yourself essentially and say, okay, well we're designed to be able to avoid those types of issues."

Chris:                     It really handles the whole me-focused concern that we talked about earlier in terms of the biggest problems that people have with their messaging. It totally shifts from me as the salesperson to you and then being able to provide a solution to that. I don't… Why is it David, that so many salespeople are so product oriented versus buyer oriented?

David:                   Well, it's probably easier because if we understand our products and services, we just want to talk about them. If I sell air conditioners, I want to talk to you about how big it is and how much air it's going to blow and the BTUs and all that kind of stuff because that's how I'm trained, but we need to think about it from the standpoint of the person who wants to buy it. They don't care about any of that stuff.

You know, there's a lot of talk and sales about features and benefits. I know we've touched on this in previous podcasts and so the feature is that it's X number of BTUs and this is the size, so it fits into these different areas. The benefit will be that it fits into smaller areas. The feature is that it's this particular size, the feature is that it's this many BTUs and the benefit is that it cools your house fast or whatever it is.

So there are features and benefits. People largely don't care about features. They do like benefits a little bit more. But beyond features and benefits, we really get into the area of experiences and emotions....

If you've ever had a conversation with someone who had zero power to make a decision, you understand how frustrating it can be. So today we'll talk about how to get to the decision-makers.

David:                   Hi and welcome to the podcast!  Today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about decision makers. Who are they, where are they and how do we get to them? Welcome Chris.

Chris:                   Hi David. Well, it seems that most sales people understand the importance of getting to a decision maker, but many really haven't ever been trained to, have they?

David:                   It seems that way. Yeah.

Chris:                     Where do they start? Because it really is something that I think a lot of people don't get. As obvious as it is, like how do I actually do it? It’s a whole different thing.

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David:                   Right. Well I think a lot of it starts with identifying who the decision maker is to the best of their ability.  A lot of times we think just because someone's agreed to an appointment or just because we've gotten someone on the phone that they are in fact the decision maker and that is not always the case. So we want to start out by doing whatever we can to only make presentations to decision makers, which means we need to find out upfront as well as we can as much as possible whether or not the person that we're talking to has the ability to make the decision.

Chris:                     Talk a little bit about how you have that conversation, because my sense is that one of the biggest issues a sales person has with getting to a decision maker is their fear of asking. What do you suggest that they say to somebody who they're not sure if they're the decision maker?

David:                   Okay. Well first thing I would say is never assume that the person that you're talking to is the decision maker. It's really easy to do this but don't!  Because we feel like I've got a live wire on the phone or I've got a live wire that I'm talking to and it's sometimes more fun to just sort of plow ahead and see what happens. But you could be shooting yourself in the foot if you do that. So the best way to do it is simply to ask and to get comfortable with the idea, you know, “Will you be making the decision on this or is anyone else involved?” It's really pretty straightforward. Now before you even get to a question like that, you want to determine whether or not they have any sort of interest. You want to get clear on what it is that you do and all that sort of thing. But once they've expressed interest in what you're talking about, it's a good question to get answered upfront.

Chris:                     And I think that typically you've got to that place where they seem to be expressing interest. And now as a sales guy, I'm really excited to keep this movement.

David:                   Right!

Chris:                     And then to kind of throw a wrench in the works and ask if they're, the decision maker is tough, but the payoff is huge, isn't it? In other words, in terms of not having wasted time and also being sure that I'm getting to the right person who can make the decision.

David:                   Exactly. Because the biggest wrench you can really throw into it, is making a beautiful presentation to someone who has absolutely no ability to buy from you. It's a much bigger wrench than simply asking the person if they are in fact the decision maker or if there are other people involved.

Chris:                     Let's say that I've gone through the process of having the call, this person's expressed interest, for some reason I haven't got to the question about who the decision maker is and they want me to give a presentation. What do I do to make sure that the decision maker is actually there?

David:                   Okay, well again, the first thing you want to do is ask, you know, “Are you the decision maker or are there other people involved in that?” and if there are other people involved in that, then you can say, “Hey listen, I don't want you to have to do my job for me. So it would, it makes sense for all of us to get together on the same call or at the same presentation?”. Some will say yes, some will say no. If there are some people who are control freaks, they are just very much into controlling the situation. They'll say, “No, you will make your very best presentation to me and then I will determine how much of that I pass onto the person who will actually be making the buying decision.” and when that happens we get to decide whether or not we want to move forward, right? We can decide, okay, well that doesn't really make sense for me to be able to put this together for someone who has no ability to buy and we may choose to say, “Okay, well you know, I'm sorry, we just don't do business that way.” and you can step away from it. On the other hand, if they have been delegated with this task, they're supposed to be gathering all the information and they're supposed to be bringing it back to the decision maker and they're sort of in the same boat where you are essentially, they're sort of forced to gather this information and present it. Then we want to do everything we can to empower that person to be able to deliver that information in as compelling a manner as possible.

Chris:                     And I really think that goes back to this whole idea of asking what the process is, who's involved in the process and really getting from this person, assuming that they are tasked with this job of distilling information and getting to somebody of really asking for their standpoint, what's the best way as a salesperson, I can help you to deliver that message.

David:                   Yeah. You know, another thing that I've noticed is sometimes you'll ask someone if they're the decision maker and they'll indicate that they are or they'll imply that they are, but they won't overtly state it. So one of the things that I've found helpful is repeating back what they've said and trying to get confirmation on it. So if they say, “Oh yes, I'm involved in the decision making.” And you say, “Oh, okay, so you're, you're involved in the decision making. Does that mean that you're actually making the decision or are there other people involved?” And then if they say, “No, it's me, I'm the one who makes a decision.”, then you say, “Oh, okay, just want to confirm. You are in fact the decision maker.”  “Yes.”  “Okay, good.” And the reason you want to do that is that a week or so later after you've put together all the information, you've delivered it exactly as they wanted and they're stalling; you don't want them to be able to go back to “Well, I have to get permission from my boss.” And if they do, you can at least say, “Oh, well when we spoke, you had indicated that you are the decision maker on this.” And they can say, “Oh yeah, well I was, but then it turns out something else happened and I needed to get confirmation from my boss on anything that's over a certain dollar amount,” or whatever. They'll say whatever it is they're going to say. But at least if you prefaced it with that, you've got a lot better likelihood of being able to be talking to the decision maker.

Chris:                     And it also shows that you hold people accountable in a nice way. Right? And Oh, I thought you were, is a nice way to say, Hey, what's going on here? Let me make sure I understand it and then honor that. And in so many ways, don't you think it's better to just kind of stick with face value? While we're really asking the tough questions about what's changed.

David:                   Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes people will imply that they’re the decision maker even when they know they're not, but they don't want to admit it. So sometimes it's an ego thing, so they'll pretend that they're the decision maker until it becomes time to actually pull the trigger on the order. And then they'll let you know that either they can't do it or some people they just won't even tell you. They'll never tell you that they're not the decision maker. They'll just say, “Well, we decided to go in a different direction”, or something like that. You may never even find out

Chris:                     And some of that is going to happen. But there's so much confusion about who it is, and taking the time to understand that and to have these conversations is really critical, isn't it?

David:                   Yeah. And I think when someone is deliberately misleading you, that's one thing. But there are other situations where the person you're talking to actually believes that they are the decision maker. They think that they're going to have the ability to pull the trigger on this order. And then they find out later that their boss says something like, well, I think I want to do this or I want to do that. And all of a sudden the decision has been taken from them. So even if they're being completely truthful with you and they think they're the decision maker, in some cases it turns out that they're not. So in a B2B situation, it could be a boss that's asking the subordinate to gather the details without telling them that it's not their decision. In a business to consumer scenario, this often happens with spouses. You know, some spouses have confusion about this. The guy might think he actually has the authority to make the decision.

Chris:                     Oh, he hasn't been married long enough has he David?

David:                   Yeah, we could go with that. But you know, sometimes you do think that you're, you've been authorized to make a decision and then you're not, and they get push-back from the other spouse who wants to be involved in the decision. So a lot of times it's about the person themselves getting clarity on whether or not they are in fact the decision maker....

It's great when people just want to buy our products and services, but product buyers are only ever a small part of the entire market. So how do we get to all the others who could be good prospects for us but don't even know they need our solutions? Target solution buyers!

David:                   Hi and welcome to the podcast today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be discussing the difference between product buyers and solution buyers. Welcome Chris.

Chris:                    Hi David. This is a great topic and really interesting when we look at the difference between a product buyer and a solution buyer, is there really a big difference or is it not that big of a deal?

Product buyers are great

David:                   Good question. I mean, if somebody just wants to come and buy our product, then that's great, right? We don't really care too much beyond that, but maybe we should. And here's what I mean by that. Somebody comes to us out of the blue, let's say completely unsolicited and they want to buy what it is that we have to offer. Okay, well we can just sell it to them and we can be happy because we made a sale and they can be happy because they got what they wanted.

But if we think back to what we talked about in a previous podcast, the idea of creating customers as opposed to just making sales, then we recognize that this is not exactly a great recipe for doing that. And so if we want to really be able to service people on an ongoing basis and turn them into ongoing clients, raving fans, the types of things that we want, then we probably want to move beyond the idea of just getting them what they want and trading products and services for cash and getting to the point where we're really helping them to solve the problems that they have.

Chris:                     And when you get to work with a solution buyer, it's a whole different ballgame, and from my standpoint, a whole lot more enjoyable and rewarding.

Solution buyers can be even better

David:                   Yeah. Because when you're able to help people with their problems, their issues, the things that are really driving them crazy, it is very rewarding. You feel like you're actually helping someone while earning a good living doing it. So, it's sort of the best of all worlds.

Chris:                     And that's the fact for the buyer. They're feeling like you have taken this to a place that's beyond just, “Hey, here it is, and this is the price”. And it really is how a lot of people work and don't understand how much more fun and how much more enjoyable what they're doing could be if they were solution providers as opposed to just a product provider. Right?

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David:                   Right. And if people are struggling with this issue, the thing they need to keep in mind is that every product you sell, every service you sell solves a problem.  Because if it didn't, no one would want to buy it. And I mean you say, okay, well what about selling a pack of chewing gum at the grocery store? It solves a problem. That person has a need that they need to fill, I need to chew, and they're going to buy this pack of chewing gum. Right? So it may be a minor need, it may be a major need, but there is an issue. There's something they're looking for. There's something that person craves that they don't have, that they're willing to trade their money for. And as business people, this is one of the main things that we have to look at. What are the things that we can provide that will help people to get what they're looking for?

Chris:                     So are we clear with the audience that really focusing on solution buyers is a much better approach in business?

David:                   Yeah, I think so. But also just the idea that nearly every buyer is to some extent or another, whether they realize it or not, a solution buyer. So as we talked about at the top of the podcast, and we're talking about this idea of somebody who just comes in and buys, they're coming in and they're buying because there is a need that they have to have filled. So if they come to you and they order something and you deliver it, you want to try to extrapolate from that, okay, what are they trying to get out of this purchase? What's the result that they want? Because if they purchased this one thing and it got them this result, is there something else that we could offer that would help them to further that result and get more of that result? Help them to expand the results they're getting. When you adopt that mindset, once again, you're getting inside of their heads more so than your own and you're trying to figure out what are their issues, what are their problems? What needs to be solved and how can I help them to solve it. So it's just a much more giving sort of approach that ends up resulting in more business.

Chris:                     So, is really the difference between the two - a product buyer and a solution buyer, my approach as a salesperson?

David:                   Well it can be your approach as a salesperson, it can be their perception really. There really isn't all that much of a difference between the two. If you accept the fact that nobody really buys anything unless they're looking to solve a problem or a fill a desire. And so all of that, from my standpoint goes to the idea of providing them with a solution to what they're looking for.

Chris:                     Yup. For me that seems like just a given and yet it's amazing how fast we can lose sight of that and desire to sell versus desire to sell and create a long-term relationship where I'm helping them to solve a problem. In a previous conversation you and I had, we talked about the five levels of qualification. Is it fair to say that solution buyers would normally be found often among those who are generally the most receptive?

David:                   Yeah. When we talked about the five levels of qualification, we talked about those who are ready to buy now. That's the top of the pile. Those who have specific dates in mind, that's the second group, so I'm not ready to buy now, but I do want to buy something in three to six months. Then third group are those who are generally receptive. I'm open to the idea, but I'm not sure when or where. Then the fourth group are those who are disqualified, no need, no desire, no money, no budget, et cetera, and then the fifth group are those who are unresponsive, we tried to contact them and they just don't get back to us. So when we think in terms of solution buyers, many of them are going to be found among the group that is generally receptive. They might not know exactly what they need from us at the moment, but they're open to it. They're open to the idea of solutions. They know that there's a need that they have that isn't quite yet being filled. Maybe they don't know that you're the person who can fill that need. So when you're talking to people who seem to be open to it but they're not ready to buy now, very often the reason for that is that we haven't hit on the thing that is going to make the difference - that's going to push them over the edge. If I'm generally receptive to whatever it is that you sell, it means that there is some sort of need that sort of rolling around in the back of my mind that I haven't yet solidified that need hasn't become important enough or burning enough to get me to take action right away.  So what we want to do when we look at people, when we're qualifying people and we're trying to determine where they fall among those five levels of qualification is when we identify someone who is generally receptive. Our goal is to see how we can help move them to either being ready to buy now or having specific dates in mind when they want to buy and that is almost always a matter of finding that need, determining what it is that they want to have happen and then tying together the need that they have with the products and services we offer. Once we've accomplished that, they're going to be a lot more likely to want to do it now rather than later.

Chris:                     So often though, David, I think it's hard for salespeople and business owners who sell what they offer product or service to understand how to get to that need. Like how do I do that in a way that I'm not just coming across as trying to prep myself to make sure that you know that my product is the best for you? What do you say to people that struggle with, how do I get to that need?

David:                   Well, a lot of it is just conversations and most of what we want to do with prospects in terms of our conversations is they're going to start out a lot more general. We're going to try to get an idea of what they do, what they're looking to have happen, how we could potentially help obviously enters into that at some point; but we need to get a basic idea of what they're looking for and that goes whether you're B2B or B2C or B2G, it doesn't really matter. So when we interact with somebody for the first time, and let's say you meet somebody at a networking function, it's all very high level conversation at first.  We're just sort of meeting, exchanging business cards or whatever. We're just talking about the event or different things. We're finding out what's going on with the other person. And then depending on how the conversation goes, it gets deeper into their issues, what they're looking to do, what they're looking to accomplish, whether or not I can use their services, they can use my services and that type of thing. So those conversations, a lot of them are very organic, they're just going to sort of happen like that. But when you recognize that it starts out more general and then it gets more specific as you're sort of moving people through the funnel, then you can gear your conversations accordingly and you can get better results because of it.

...

We all have the same 24 hours in a day. It's fixed. It's inflexible, so earning more in less time is less about managing time, and more about managing ourselves.

David:                   Hi and welcome to the podcast today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about a subject that is near and dear to many of our hearts, how to earn more money in less time. Welcome Chris.

Chris:                     Hi David. In the interest of time, I suppose we should get right down to it. It seems to me that most people struggle with how to get it all done in the time they have available. How do you recommend our listeners get around this really big issue, and common issue frankly?

David:                   Yes, many people do struggle with how to get it all done in the time they have available, and so one of the first things we need to look at is what exactly is it that we're doing?  What are the activities that we are engaged in on a daily basis and how many of them really need to happen? How many of them are absolutely critical to our mission, to our success, to everything that we're doing on a day to day basis. Because if you examine the activities you're engaged in, what you will very likely find is that there are things you're doing right now that simply don't move the needle. And so by identifying those things up front as quickly as possible, you can start to adapt and change the things that you're doing so that you're going to be able to better monetize the hours that you're putting into your work week.

Chris:                     So, when you look at this and identifying your time, what you're doing with it, I think it's a tough one for people to see. What are the solutions? Is it just getting a to do list together to start to understand that? What do you recommend?

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David:                   Well, a lot of people use to do lists and you're far better off having one than not having one. But if you're like most people with to do lists, you've got way too many things to do and not enough time to do them all.

Chris:                     Right.

David:                   Which goes back to what we were talking about a moment ago, which is identifying which of the things on the to do list actually need to get done. Because if there are things on there that are simply taking up time and taking up space and that aren't going to accomplish what it is that you're looking to have happen, then you're better off not having them on there. So, what I would say is if you've got a to do list, probably one of the first things that will help you is if you're able to begin to turn your to do list into calendar items. So, I'm moving it from something that maybe should be done at some future point in time to something that I'm actually going to be working on today. And so if I identify the top two or three or at most five things, that I really feel like I need to accomplish today and I turn them into calendar items, then those five items out of the thirty, fifty or a hundred that are on my to do list all of a sudden become actionable. They become a lot more valuable to me because I've chosen them out of all the others to take action on today.

Chris:                     That's a great approach and it really gets you to lock yourself in because you've got a little reminder that says, "Hey, it's time to do this project and let's get going." And if you follow that, you really are kind of prioritizing and focusing on what's the most important thing I can be doing today.

David:                   Right. Priorities are always more important than activities.

Chris:                     Well talk about that. What do you mean by that?

David:                   Well, activities are just things that we do. So I'm doing different things. I'm going to go pour a glass of water or I'm going to type a note to a friend. I'm going to send an email, I'm going to take a phone call. They're all activities, priorities are the activities that we've decided are the things that we really want to do today that we've decided we are going to do today. And simply prioritizing them and saying, “Okay, rather than just engaging in fifty random actions, I'm going to engage in four or five strategic actions that are going to help me move closer to my goals.” I believe the book 4DX, the Four Disciplines of Execution talks about the difference between lead measures and lag measures. So, if I'm looking to accomplish a goal, let's say I want to bring in five new clients by the end of the week, that's a lag measure. I'm only going to be able to measure it after it's happened, so I can't really act on that. What I have to act on instead are the lead measures, what are the things that I need to do now before the end of the week to bring those five customers in. So it might be identifying who those customers are, it might be reaching out to them, what's the first contact I'm going to do to engage with them and then letting them know who I am and then trying to schedule a time to talk with them or get with them on the phone or whatever it is. So there are specific activities that are the lead measures and we need to focus on those. We look at the things that we know that if we do them, they're going to be more likely to help us achieve the outcomes or the goals that we're looking for. And by focusing on the things we need to do now that will help us to identify our priorities instead of just engaging in activities.

Chris:                     And the other thing that's really important about that, I hadn't heard these two terms, but it fits very well with, my dad was an insurance guy and had a prospecting system and his whole thing was - get two appointments a day. And that's a lead measure and it's something that's actionable that I can do. And his whole thing was, if you focus your success on those things, two appointments a day, everything else follows the lag measures, how many sales did I get and how well did I do - all kind of fall into place, don't they?

David:                   They do. And then when you refine those things and you say, okay, I'm going to identify and I'm going to approach two prospects today that meet certain criteria, you can start raising the bar on your lead measures and so you can start attracting a higher quality of client. You can start attracting the types of people that you really want to have as ongoing customers and so it becomes even more specific. It becomes more finely tuned to get you the results you're looking for

Chris:                     And you're in a position where you're having successes, you're enjoying the process along the way as opposed to what we all have a common tendency to do is to say “Well, it'll be great when I get those two sales” or that, you know, whatever the case may be, but having something really that's more process oriented also makes little successes along the way much more meaningful, doesn't it?

David:                   Yeah, and when you're focused on the goal, the outcome, Oh, I need to get these customers. I have to get customers. What am I going to do to do to get customers? Those types of questions, they're not helpful. What you need to be doing is taking action on the things that you know are going to work and if you don't know what those things are, then that's the first thing you have to learn it. Now, one of the things that we've talked about a lot with our clients is the difference between knowing and doing. Do I know exactly what I need to do to generate the levels of success I want? For a lot of people, the answer to that question, if they were really to ask it to themselves, the answer is no, because if they did know exactly what to do, they would very likely be doing it. One of the reasons that people tend to get stuck in business, they tend to get to a certain point in sales and then their sales plateau, or they get to a certain point and they're bringing customers in and then they're no longer bringing customers in; is that they lose sight of this fact. They have to look at how am I going to consistently keep things going and what is it that I don't know that I need to know? What do I need to know about the types of prospects that I want to attract? What do I need to know about the ways that I'm going to do that and make it happen consistently. If there's stuff you don't know, you need to learn it. If you already know it all, then it's really a matter of implementing. But very few people know at all. I don't know anyone who knows it all. And the smartest people I believe are the ones who recognize that fact.  I always say, if I can't learn something from every person I interact with today, that is my fault, not theirs. Right? Cause I can learn from good example. I can learn from bad example. So if I'm not learning, I blame myself for that.

Chris:                     Boy oh boy, is that the truth. So, let's just talk about the guy who says, “You know, I get all of this, but there are things that I just need to do in my business that I can't justify a high hourly rate.”

David:                   Yeah. Well, I think one of the things is to switch that around and instead of saying there are things I have to do in my business that don't justify a high hourly rate, maybe you can just switch that around slightly to say there are things that need to be done in my business that don't justify a high hourly rate. You don't necessarily have to be the one who does those things because if you want to earn a high hourly rate, if you want to be able to attract the types of clients who are going to be able to generate the revenue that you want, you're going to have to be engaged in higher dollar activity. If you're dusting your office, for example, right? If you decide that my office is dusty and it has to be dusted and I have to be the person to do that, don't expect to be paid $200, $300,...

Time after time when I ask our clients about topics they want to know more about, the subject of attracting larger clients comes up.  So, in this episode we'll tackle it head on and address the steps you can take now to attract the larger clients you want to have.

David:                   Hi and welcome to the podcast today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about attracting bigger clients. Welcome Chris.

Chris:                     Hey David. Thanks for having me. Bigger clients, nearly everyone in business in sales just loves the sound of that. But sometimes our actions, David, they aren't geared towards getting those results, are they?

David:                   No, unfortunately they're not. And a lot of times when I've had these conversations with clients and they talk about the idea of getting bigger clients and then we talk about what they're actually doing, what we find is that they're not in front of people who ever have the capacity to be bigger clients and so it's very easy to pinpoint the problems just right from the get-go.

Chris:                     And that is kind of the function of starting in business and just taking anything that works. And then over time just not really doing the things that helped me to get there. But I also think that businesses in general have a hard time with this idea of, you know, how do I go to these people who have the bigger dollars, who are willing to buy from me? And how do I go through the process of positioning? It's a big question for people and I think it's not often well answered by business owners or salespeople, frankly.

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David:                   Yeah, there's certainly an element of fear in a lot of situations when it comes to approaching larger clients because we're afraid we're going to blow it. We're afraid we're going to say the wrong thing, and so in many cases we just don't even approach. It's like the Wayne Gretzky quote, I miss 100% of the shots I don't take. And so many people don't take those shots and as a result, they never get that business. So, I think a good step toward overcoming that fear is recognizing that buyers are human beings, no matter if they have the ability to buy a little or they have the ability to buy a lot.  They're human beings and so if you approach them as human beings and you see if you can provide them with what it is they're looking for, then regardless of the size of the business, regardless of the size of their purchasing power, they're going to be happy to hear what you have to say.  So, to overcome that is to identify, okay, who are some of these people? And maybe getting into conversations with a few of them, trying not to be intimidated, and some of them might be intimidating.  Some of them might just be rude or obnoxious or any of the other disqualifiers that we talked about in a previous podcast. It doesn't mean that that's all of them. You can have a very poor-quality prospect who can be rude and obnoxious and can come across as if they have a huge budget when they actually have no money at all and they're about to go out of business. So, you run into a lot of the same potential issues, whether you're dealing with a high-quality client or a low-quality client.

Chris:                     I'd argue that in a lot of situations, those smaller clients, you're going to work a lot harder for a lot less versus larger clients where you're going to work well for an appropriate amount of income and enjoy the process more because you're dealing with somebody who's got good sales coming in, got a good income, and when you're dealing with these people, you want to think of it that way, that these are people that I can help and they can help me as a result.

David:                   Yeah, some small clients are great and some small clients are terrible. Same thing with large clients. So it's really very much the same thing because again, people are people. So when we look at it and we say, all right, do I want to bring some larger clients in? And if the answer's yes to that question, then obviously your actions are going to have to change to adapt to that.

Chris:                     Right.  And yet at the same time, it's not becoming something that you don't want to be. And I think that that's part of this fear piece as well this, "Oh my gosh, am I worthy of this person and their business? Are they smarter than me?" Those kinds of things and the best way, like you said earlier, is to just go out and start to talk to some of these people. It doesn't have to be a sale right out the gate, does it?

David:                   No, it certainly doesn't. And those conversations are going to tell you a lot and the main thing they're going to tell you is that some of the people you talk to are going to be great. Some of them are going to be terrible and some that are going to be in between. Just like everybody else.

Chris:                     You mean just like life?

David:                   Yeah, exactly! It's just like life and the primary difference is that when you're interacting with people who have the ability to place the larger orders and to become really substantial clients of yours, you just leverage yourself enormously because you're having a conversation with somebody who it can take the same amount of time as someone that you'd have who doesn't have that level of buying power and it has the ability to create a lot more results for them and a lot better results for you.

Chris:                     So how do you suggest that listeners go about identifying the bigger clients in their markets?

David:                   Well, a lot of people already kind of know who the bigger clients in their markets are because they're big and they're out there and they're aware of them. I mean, sometimes it's a matter of just if you're operating in a local market, particularly if it's business to business, you know, who has the biggest ads in the newspaper, you know, who's advertising the most on radio or television or internet, who are you seeing online a lot because the bigger places are going to be more visible. But if you want to go beyond that, not just the biggest clients in the market, but the biggest clients that you really want to interact with… What's the type of business that you want to interact with? Or what's the type of client that you want to interact with? If you're operating in a B to C environment, if you're operating business to consumer, who are the types of clients you want to have?  If you're selling real estate are you looking for somebody who wants to buy a row home, or are you looking for someone who wants to buy a mansion, right? There are differences and it's all going to depend on you. One of the things that I love about sales is that each of us gets to sort of play in the sandbox that we designed for ourselves. We can interact with the people that we want to interact with.  In a B to B environment we can choose to interact with plumbers and electricians or lawyers and bankers or doctors and we get to pick; and same thing in B to C. we get to decide what types of markets we want to interact with and so use that power, use that decision making, ability to think in terms of the people, the prospects the clients that you actually want to have and then focus on initiating contact with them.  It's about being proactive rather than just being reactive.

Chris:                     Boy, and that's what you are all about, isn't it David? I mean your topsecrets.com website, Total Market Domination course, it's all about getting those plans in place and doing things in a way that's intentional.

David:                   Right. And making it accessible to people. Because there are a lot of small business owners who feel like they can't do it, that they're overwhelmed or outgunned by everybody else. And the fact of the matter is that it is actually pretty simple for small and medium sized businesses to compete when they're taking the right actions.

Chris:                     Boy oh boy, it's so important to understand that you as a listener have the ability to go get these clients and it just is going to take a little bit of practice and intention, but you know, talk about the difficulty or ease of reaching these bigger clients.

David:                   Yeah, I think there's a perception among salespeople that it's a lot harder to get to the bigger customers and that can certainly be true in some cases and it's less true in other cases, just like you know, are they going to be nice or are they going to be mean? It's going to be a mix. Same thing. Some of them will be easier to reach, some of them will be harder to reach.   Are you going to be able to pick up the phone and call Bill Gates and get through? Probably not, not even if you've got a really successful autoresponder campaign backing that up, it's probably not going to happen. But for most people, most businesses you should be able to reach, introduce yourself to and get a message in front of the people that you are interested in having as prospects and as clients.

Chris:                     And let's not forget for one second that now more than ever you have access to things like LinkedIn where you can see if you have common relationships, that sort of thing, and really have the ability to personalize a conversation much more quickly. “Oh, I see you know Bill Smith from so-and-so!” and to create that conversation much more easily because you can do a little bit of background research, eh?

David:                   Yes, and you can also get your conversation in front of them. If you see somebody that you're looking to impact and you see them online, let's say it's on LinkedIn and they posted something about something that they were doing in their business and you were simply to comment on that, on how interesting you thought it was or if you had a que

David:                   Management Guru Peter Drucker once said, “The purpose of business is to create a customer.” Does that mean just selling stuff or is there more to it than that? Is it really about creating a customer?

Chris:                     (Laughs) Oh, it's just selling stuff.

David                     Yeah, it’s just selling stuff… that's it.

David                     Hi, and welcome to the podcast today co-host Chris Templeton and I will be talking about the idea of creating customers. Welcome back, Chris.

Chris:                     Hey David, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. You know, in a way it seems obvious that business owners and salespeople need to be creating customers, but that doesn't always appear to be the focus does it?

David:                   No, it really doesn't. I think we lose sight of this and that's why I think it's an important topic to talk about because this idea of creating customers is just so critical to business owners, to salespeople, to anyone who is in the profession or anyone who is required to grow a business, that it really can't be overstated.  When we think in terms of creating customers, there's just such a distinction. If I make a sale to someone, then technically that person has become a customer of mine. But again, if the goal at that point is simply to sell them something and that's happened, well now it moves into the past. And so from my standpoint, the idea of creating a customer means you're finding someone who is likely to come back to you again and again and again and is essentially going to serve as an annuity to grow your business, because you're going to know that over a period of weeks, months, years, that this person is going to help to contribute to what you're looking to build and you are certainly going to look to contribute to what they're looking to accomplish.

Chris:                     It seems to me, and I can speak from experience; that one of the hardest things to do is to create that repeat sale, to create that business relationship. And I think it's so easy for businesses to say, ah, let's just move on to the next one. And then they start feeling guilty about not staying in touch with the customer. What's the secret sauce of creating customers versus just making a sale?

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David:                   Well, if you start with what it is that you want to accomplish, and you go into each relationship with the idea of creating a customer, then a lot of your actions will naturally follow. But if you're just going in with the idea of "I need to make this sale today", you tend to think more in terms of product. You tend to think more in terms of the things that you have to say and the responses you have to get, as opposed to thinking about the person and how can I help this person to achieve their objectives? Because when your focus is on them and identifying their needs and how you can help them with their needs, you become far more valuable to them.  And as a result, you're going to become a far more likely to create the value they need, where they're going to want to come back to you again and again and again. You can't force people to do it. The only way they're going to come back is if they were happy with what you did the first time. So in a lot of cases when we're initiating contact with someone for the first time and we're giving them an idea of what we're going to be able to do for them, they're having to take us on blind faith. They can look at testimonials if we have those on our website or whatever. They can hear what other people have said about us in the past, but until they've actually placed that first order with us, it's all just kind of hearsay to them.

Chris:                     Right.

David:                   So, getting to that point upfront where you create that relationship where they feel comfortable enough to play that first-time order with you is a big step.  Once that happens, then you have to be able to deliver. So it's not just a matter of I said all the right things and you placed an order, but I took the order, I processed the order correctly. You got what you needed, it helped you accomplish the objectives you set out when you decided to buy the thing. You feel good about it. Now you're going to be a lot more likely to come back. So, repeat business and this idea of creating a customer is far more than just our marketing. It's far more than just what we say or how we say it. It's really about how we live our lives, how we live our business, and those are the things that are going to determine whether or not somebody is a one-time order or an ongoing client.

Chris:                     And I think that the really big point is, you said earlier, we're focused on them and as part of our focus on them, we're going to do things that are gonna help to generate that next sale. But we're always focused on what's best for them and how we can help them. And after you've got past the trust of building the first sale, then it's about maintaining it, isn't it? And doing it authentically.

David:                   Yeah, it's about maintaining the relationship, the business relationship in a way that is appealing and beneficial to the person that we're interacting with. That's really the core of successful customer creation. Establishing a relationship where they feel comfortable with you, they feel confident in your ability to deliver and they would just never consider going anywhere else. One of the things that we talk about in our Total Market Domination course is the idea that once you've achieved that level of top of mind awareness where someone is completely comfortable with you, they're completely confident in you. Then when they're ready to place an order for the products and services you offer, there's no question where they're going. They're not going to be looking around. They're not going to be looking at ads for other businesses.  They’re going to contact you first. So what that means is your competitors don't even have a shot at that business. And when we look at the idea of market domination, that's what we mean by that. It's creating an environment in which your very best prospects for the products and services you offer, know who you are, know what you do and want to do, choose to do, business with you over every other option available to them

Chris:                     Because they feel like they're taken care of, like you truly are authentically concerned about them and what's best for them. Man oh man, the difference between that and your standard generic cultural story of what it means to be a salesperson, right?

David:                   Yes. And they're doing it because they want to. Right? That is a key, critical distinction. They are doing it because they want to, they're choosing to come back to you because you've demonstrated to them that you do business the way that they would like to have business done.

Chris:                     And it's so simple and yet we lose focus on that all the time. And I totally appreciate your ability to bring that back. You know, it's so easy to lose sight of that in this day and age and it's probably been that way for time immemorial but being that person that you would want to be buying from, it's so important. But here's the thing, realistically, isn't there more to business than just creating customers, David?

David:                   Yes, obviously there has to be. There's an operations side to things there. I mean, there's all kinds of things that go into business other than just creating customers.  But I think the point that Drucker was making when he said it, is that if you fail to create customers, you have no business. So all the other functions that are required for business are no longer required if you don't have people to serve. So to me, I interpret it as a priority thing. If you lack the ability to consistently create customers, then you're not going to have a sustainable business. And if you start that out as your primary focus each day, what am I going to do today to continue to create customers? And of course continuing to maintain the relationships you've already established, then you're going to be on much more solid ground.

Chris:                     And the bottom line of any business is if you don't have consistent sales coming in, it may not be sustainable. But let me tell you what it's going to be for sure is stressful.  This is probably why a lot of people really do lose sight of what it means to create a customer is because they don't have enough sales coming in the door to feel comfortable to be able to do the things that we're suggesting be done to create that solid customer - sales, sales, sales, in the nicest, most authentic way, wouldn't you say?

David:                   Yes, and so many businesses feel that stress that you're talking about and they exhibit that stress in terms of not being able to get rid of clients who are not good for them, no longer a good fit. When they don't have a process in place for generating new clients like clockwork, then there's always going to be those levels of stress because they don't know where the next prospect or client is going to come from. That's why the whole idea of being able to create that environment in which your very best prospects know who you are is so critical to success.

Chris:                     To total market domination, right?

David:                   Yes. Some people don't love the term, they think it sounds a little too whatever over the top, but when you really think in terms of what it means; it simply means that the people who need to know who you are, know who you are. They have the ability to make a thumbs up or thumbs down decision on whether or not they want to do business with you and you have the ability to make the same decision about the