Founder dependence is often the largest obstacle to a successful succession plan, costing you your health, family time, and growth opportunities… but it doesn't have to be this way!

In this episode, Kim Cochenour sits down with Mariana and Ivan Polic, a husband-and-wife team who took over a highly technical, founder-led business, eliminated founder dependence and sold it to a private equity firm in a stunning six-day transition.

They talk about the three major shifts they focus on and what it takes to plan a succession that leaves everyone incredibly satisfied.

• Kim Cochenour is joined by Mariana and Ivan Polic to explore a topic that is often one of the largest obstacles to a successful succession plan: Founder dependence.
• Mariana and Ivan are a husband-and-wife team who took over a highly technical, founder-led business, grew it so much that it caught the eye of a private equity firm and sold it – all in a stunning six-day transition.
• Ivan goes over the beginnings of his and Mariana's personal and professional relationship, including growing a successful business only to have 97% of revenue getting lost over a month in 2008…
• Following the advice of some business advisors Ivan and Mariana were forced to cut 75% of their staff in order to get nine months of survival for the business.
• Mariana's and Ivan's six-day exit was the result of 13 years of hard work.
• Kim points out that the advisory space is seeing a transition from father/mother to the next generation – which means that there isn't just a financial dynamic, but a relational one as well.
• The turning point for Ivan and Mariana was asking Ivan's father about the most critical things, what should have stayed solid no matter what.
• Ivan and Kim talk about Mariana's role and how she managed to get their team to have 80% of women as key members.
• Kim highlights a current industry shift that seems more and more advising firms go from predominantly men-only to firms that feature women in key positions.
• In their book Shift Intelligence, Mariana and Ivan outline three major industry shifts: Organizational, marketplace, and inner world.
• Mariana and Ivan make the case for starting with the organizational side of things first.
• When it comes to the organization shift, Mariana's and Ivan's approach focuses on the team, the system, communication, responsibility, authority and trust transfer inside a firm.
• The marketplace shift has to do with the move from client trust to founder trust into the business.
• Mariana believes that the biggest bottleneck as far as the marketplace shift is concerned is the founder thinking they are the brand.
• Ivan and Mariana share a client story that speaks to the emotional patterns founders struggle with – and that are part of the third shift, inner world.
• For Ivan, founder dependence is the biggest and most painful problem in business because it costs you your health, family time, lack of growth and opportunities.
• Many founders think they have stepped back… only to have reality speak for itself and show a completely different situation.

Mentioned in This Episode:

TotalSuccession.com

TotalSuccession.com/podcast

FORM Wealth Advisors

Tyson Ray

Kim Cochenour

Tyson's book - Total Succession: 5 Steps for Financial Advisors to Exit Confidently, Be Fully Compensated, and Keep Clients' Interests First

ShiftIntelligence.co

Ivan Polic ([email protected])

Mariana Polic ([email protected])

Shift Intelligence: End Founder Dependence and Build a Business That Stands on Its Own by Ivan and Mariana Polic

Boeing

Independence Diagnostic™ Scorecard

Industry consolidation is unlike anything we've seen before, and if you're not watching closely, your succession planning won't matter because you'll get caught in the chaos.

Tyson Ray and Kim Cochenour reveal why the longer you wait for succession planning, the fewer options you have, and how consolidation is eroding advisors' negotiating power and their understanding of what their practice is actually worth.

You'll hear more about the common misconceptions founders have about what aggregators look for, when the value of your firm actually increases, and how solo advisors will lose clients to AI-powered teams if they don't act now.

• This episode starts with a warning from Kim Cochenour: "Consolidation is unlike anything we've seen in the industry. If you're not watching closely, your planning is not going to matter because you'll get caught afloat in this mess."
• Tyson Ray touches upon the different approaches founders may have: Not paying attention to the industry because they're too busy, some who are exploring their succession planning options, and others who have thought about it but are yet to act.
• Ask yourself whether you have done the things that are needed in regards to your succession.
• Remember: the longer you wait for succession, the more important it is… but the less options you end up having.
• Tyson believes that, as the industry grows, those who are running the show on their own will lose clients to firms that rely on teams using AI.
• Tyson and Kim discuss whether advisors are losing their negotiating power because of industry consolidation.
• Kim points out that advisors are losing out on the idea of what their practice is actually worth because they can't quantify what that actually means.
• Many founders have misconceptions regarding what aggregators and integrators actually look for – Tyson shares the most common ones.
• Did you know that some advisors think that they are where the value sits? They are wrong, says Tyson, because the value of a firm increases as the owner's responsibilities decrease.
• Tyson and Kim go over what it looks like, to a client, when they deal with a better prepared firm.

Mentioned in This Episode:

TotalSuccession.com

TotalSuccession.com/podcast

FORM Wealth Advisors

Tyson Ray

Kim Cochenour

Tyson's book - Total Succession: 5 Steps for Financial Advisors to Exit Confidently, Be Fully Compensated, and Keep Clients' Interests First

Succession planning doesn't start with finding a successor… It starts with defining your vision and inviting your G2 to co-create the future of your firm.

The mother-daughter duo of Bridget Venus Grimes and Marnie Bonner of WealthChoice reveal why soliciting feedback from next-generation advisors is non-negotiable for success and how coaching facilitated their transition.

You'll discover the biggest challenges founders face when searching for G2 talent, why more conversations about succession would prevent fire sales, and what it looks like when your clients prefer your successor as their primary contact.

• This episode kicks off with Bridget Venus Grimes opening up about when succession planning started to become real, while Marnie Bonner touches upon how she ended up at WealthChoice after being in the tech industry.
• Bridget doesn't believe that any succession will be successful if you bring a G2 in and you say, "This is the vision for the firm, and this is what we're going to do."
• Soliciting their feedback and incorporating their vision and passion is key.
• Bridget, Marnie, and Kim talk about the benefits of coaching – including how coaching helps them invite Marnie into the business and start with succession planning.
• You understand that you're doing a good job when, like Bridget, you've been working with a client for 15+ years, but they see your G2 (Marnie in this case) as their preferred point of contact.
• For Marnie, being a G2 can be stressful – she shares the challenges that come with that.
• Bridget brings the role of founders' identity and the disservice that's being made to their clients into the conversation.
• Getting your succession planning in motion doesn't mean that you need to find a successor now, but at least you can start to think about what your vision for your firm and clients is.
• More succession planning conversations would help founders and would generate fewer fire sales.
• Kim highlights that even advisors in their 50s or 60s still have plenty of time to dive into succession planning and avoid being overwhelmed by life catastrophic events.
• Bridget shares her thoughts on being part of the community and how that can help your search for G2 advisors.
• "One of the biggest challenges for folks like me is finding a successor", she emphasizes.
• Despite having a background in health management and non-profit work, Kim was able to enter the financial advising industry – she explains how that happened and why both founders and G2 advisors should keep a similar scenario in mind.
• Marnie and Bridget open up about the 10-year goals for WealthChoice.

Mentioned in This Episode:

TotalSuccession.com

TotalSuccession.com/podcast

FORM Wealth Advisors

Tyson Ray

Kim Cochenour

Tyson's book - Total Succession: 5 Steps for Financial Advisors to Exit Confidently, Be Fully Compensated, and Keep Clients' Interests First

Bridget Venus Grimes

Marnie Bonner

WealthChoice

NAPFA: The National Association of Personal Finance Advisors

Ellevate Advisors

Brooklyn Brock

You'll only exit your practice once… so will you lead it, or will it lead you?

In this interview by Kary Oberbrunner, Tyson Ray pulls back the curtain on why most succession planning conversations miss the mark, sharing the hard-won lessons that led to his book Total Succession and the S.P.A.C.E. framework that keeps clients, team, and your legacy intact.

Discover the critical questions every advisor must ask themselves before the million-dollar offers become a distraction from what you really want, and why treating your clients like family changes everything about how you exit.

• This episode features Tyson Ray being interviewed for Kary Oberbrunner's show.
• Tyson opens up about what led to the writing and publishing of his book Total Succession: 5 Steps for Financial Advisors to Exit Confidently, Be Fully Compensated, and Keep Clients' Interests First.
• One of the key pillars of the book, which is something Tyson feels is missing from the conversation of succession industry-wide, is how to sell your firm while keeping your customers and team.
• Tyson explains why, as he puts it, "There's no perfect succession."
• Remember: figure out what you want before you're trying to turn away millions of dollars that can become a distraction from what you really want.
• Something many advisors seem to forget is that their clients become like family.
• Tyson touches upon the reason behind the world "Total" used in his books and podcast titles, as well as the S.P.A.C.E. acronym (See. Prepare. Act. Commit. Exit.).
• Important reminders: 1) You will exit your practice – the question is whether you will lead it or it will lead you; 2) You only exit your practice once, so you should do it on your terms.
• Tyson lists a series of key questions anyone focused on succession planning should ask themselves.
• The conversation wraps up with a much-needed succession planning reality check.

Mentioned in This Episode:

TotalSuccession.com

TotalSuccession.com/podcast

FORM Wealth Advisors

Tyson Ray

Kim Cochenour

Tyson's book - Total Succession: 5 Steps for Financial Advisors to Exit Confidently, Be Fully Compensated, and Keep Clients' Interests First

The Total Relationship: Four Steps to Breaking the Mold, Transforming the Financial Advisor-Client Partnership, and Building True Wealth by Tyson Ray

Kary Oberbrunner's podcasts

What if the biggest obstacle to successful succession planning isn't strategy but the unexamined money stories running in the background?

The Hidden Heist author Bill Cates joins Tyson Ray and Kim Cochenour to discuss how beliefs we formed about money around age seven secretly sabotage wealth transfer, client relationships, and your own financial psychology.

Find out why understanding your clients' money narratives is the hidden key to becoming truly referrable, deepening trust across generations, and ensuring succession success that lasts.

• The conversation starts off with Bill Cates explaining how you define a money story and why it matters for advisors.
• A money story is your self-talk, the patterns of thinking and feelings around, in this case, money.
• "You can't be in the picture if you're in the frame", says Bill.
• There seems to be consensus among psychologists that we as humans form our beliefs around money around age seven, eight, and nine.
• Most people have a specific idea of scarcity and money being a scarce resource.
• However, advisors particularly understand that money isn't a scarce resource – because money flows.
• The Latin root of the word currency is currents, which means "flowing like a river."
• Bill, Tyson, and Kim talk about neuroplasticity and the role that affirmations and the habits of talking play.
• There's FOMO (Fear of Missing Out), but there's fear of missing your identity too…
• Shame is a big thing when it comes to your money story, as Bill's insights and Tammy Lally's TEDx Talk emphasize.
• When it comes to money shame: are we able to focus on where we are now and on the decisions we're making – and can we separate ourselves from that?
• "Where's my greatest source of contentment?" and "What am I most thankful for?" are two of Tyson's most important questions on the matter.
• Bill opens up about his affirmations around gratitude, money, and time.
• His book The Hidden Heist: Stop Robbing Yourself of Lasting Wealth, co-authored by Jeff West, is a parable, a story that takes place in a bank robbery.
• Bill points out that "Most clients want to be understood and appreciated. If they have anxieties around money, they want you to know that."
• One of the ways you can be referrable and remarkable, worthy of remark, is through deepening the relationship with your clients.
• Bill's Value Discussion approach, which is backed by neuroscience, consists of getting prospects and clients to speak out loud about the value they've perceived in working with us.
• Remember: when we speak out loud, we get clearer.

Mentioned in This Episode:

TotalSuccession.com

TotalSuccession.com/podcast

FORM Wealth Advisors

Tyson Ray

Kim Cochenour

Tyson's book - Total Succession: 5 Steps for Financial Advisors to Exit Confidently, Be Fully Compensated, and Keep Clients' Interests First

Bill Cates

The Hidden Heist: Stop Robbing Yourself of Lasting Wealth by Bill Cates

Audiobook version of The Hidden Heist

Bill's TEDx Talk How to Stop Your Money Anxiety & Start Building Wealth – Today!

Bill Gates

Tammy Lally

Tammy's TEDx Talk: Money Shame: The Silent Killer

Jeff West

Succession planning is often postponed, not because it's unimportant, but because taking care of clients always feels more urgent.

Tyson Ray and Kim Cochenour unpack why "later" quietly becomes "now," how life events can force decisions before you're ready, and why clarity beats shame every time.

Tune in to learn how to get started where you are and move toward an outcome that happens on your terms, not by accident.

• Today's episode kicks off with Tyson Ray sharing the main reason why founders put succession planning off, even if they know it matters.
• "The urgency of caring for clients, because that's what we do, prevents the planning of the succession of the practice," Tyson explains.
• In his work, Tyson often finds himself discussing with clients the fact that they save and work for later. But when they realize that "later is now", they gain a whole new perspective.
• Did you know that approximately 80% of people in the U.S. don't retire on their terms?
• What often happens with advisors is that the urgent crowds out the important, and things keep working that way until they have a triggering event in their life or health – and that ends up forcing succession planning upon them.
• Tyson hopes that everyone listening to this episode plans and executes a successful succession on their terms.
• Kim Cochenour stresses the importance of clarity: "It's going to beat shame every time and it's going to get you where you need to go."
• Tyson and Kim go over practical things advisors who are behind in their succession planning should consider and do.
• Advisors tend to lean toward an internal succession only to realize that it's not going to work – and that leads them to evaluating external succession options.
• Tyson opens up about what his firm has been focusing on, from a succession planning standpoint, over the last couple of years.
• An important message from Kim: "You need to understand that you don't have to have everything done at once. It won't be done all at once, but you still have to do something."

Mentioned in This Episode:

TotalSuccession.com

TotalSuccession.com/podcast

FORM Wealth Advisors

Tyson Ray

Kim Cochenour

Tyson's book - Total Succession: 5 Steps for Financial Advisors to Exit Confidently, Be Fully Compensated, and Keep Clients' Interests First

Succession planning isn't just about stepping away, it's about who you become once you stop doing everything yourself.

Tyson Ray and Kim Cochenour dive into the messy middle of succession planning, where identity, control, and clarity collide and founders are forced to evolve.

You'll hear why succession is built through trial and adjustment, how to create a business that can live beyond you, and the powerful question every advisor must eventually answer: If you're no longer running the show… who are you now?

• Tyson Ray kicks the conversation off by sharing something he was once told: "Sometimes, there's a risk of failing so slowly that you still think that you're actually winning."
• Kim Cochenour points out that this podcast episode lives in the Act, Commit, and Exit parts of the S.P.A.C.E. framework.
• When it comes to succession planning, some think that it's only about what you're stepping away from… but it's also about clarity about what you're stepping into.
• Kim lists a few things that can lead to the messy middle of a succession.
• Tyson inspired advisors by inviting them to think "I have failed if I can't have a business that can run without me. I owe it to the clients and to the team to create this to live beyond me."
• Did you know that succession happens as a result of a sequence of "fail and try again?"
• Kim's reminder for founders: "You have to evolve as the visionary, as the founder, because if nothing changes, nothing will change."
• When done well, a succession plan makes people able to pick and choose what role they want to step into or are needed for only when you stop doing all the roles yourself.
• Powerful question by Kim: "If you're not the one running the show anymore…what are you?"

Mentioned in This Episode:

TotalSuccession.com

TotalSuccession.com/podcast

FORM Wealth Advisors

Tyson Ray

Kim Cochenour

Tyson's book - Total Succession: 5 Steps for Financial Advisors to Exit Confidently, Be Fully Compensated, and Keep Clients' Interests First

Dan Sullivan

Tyson Ray and Kim Cochenour discuss Tyson's 20-year journey and reveal the raw truth behind his internal succession plan, and why he eventually chose the joy of client impact over the lure of a multi-million dollar buyout.

You'll hear about common succession planning mistakes and the hard-won processes that finally ended Tyson's cycle of "burning through people", including the S.P.A.C.E. framework and EOS to build a firm with staying power.

If you're wondering why mastering succession planning is more critical than ever, as the industry faces a widening advisor shortage, this episode and Tyson's new book, Total Succession, are for you.

• Tyson Ray and Kim Cochenour kick the conversation off with Tyson sharing where he's currently standing when it comes to his succession journey.
• Tyson is set on having an internal succession – he explains why that's the case.
• "Burning through people to get to the right people and realizing that I didn't have the processes I needed to have the right people" is what Tyson sees as a challenge he faced for about 20 years.
• A more recent challenge was letting go of the facade that a multi-million dollar check was going to fill or replace the joy from making a difference in a client's life.
• Did you know that while the number of advisors servicing clients is declining, the number of people needing advice is actually increasing?
• Tyson and Kim touch upon the S.P.A.C.E. framework for succession planning, Gino Wickman's Entrepreneurial Operating System (or EOS), and debunk some succession-related myths.
• Tyson talks about what he considers to be the most unexpected gift of his journey.
• Curious about how Tyson's book Total Succession: 5 Steps for Financial Advisors to Exit Confidently, Be Fully Compensated, and Keep Clients' Interests First can help you get started with succession planning? Tyson has a couple of recommendations for you.

Mentioned in This Episode:

TotalSuccession.com

TotalSuccession.com/podcast

FORM Wealth Advisors

Tyson Ray

Kim Cochenour

Tyson's book - Total Succession: 5 Steps for Financial Advisors to Exit Confidently, Be Fully Compensated, and Keep Clients' Interests First

Gino Wickman's EOS

Succession planning succeeds or fails in just a few critical places, and most financial advisors don't realize where they're vulnerable.

Tyson Ray and Kim Cochenour are joined by Jackie Wilke to break down the three make-or-break factors in succession planning, from redefining rainmaking to building leaders who can truly care for clients.

You'll hear why succession is your final act of client service, how to future-proof your firm, and what it really takes to prepare the next generation of advisors to step up.

• Tyson Ray and Kim Cochenour are joined by Jackie Wilke to dig into the three biggest areas where succession planning either takes off or falls apart.
• Jackie kicks things off by sharing her industry insights regarding succession and its relationship to team builders and building an advisor transition team.
• She notes that estimates forecast 37% to 46% of advisors planning to retire over the next 10 years – yet, most of them don't have a succession plan in place.
• Despite what you may have thought, at the end of the day, succession planning is about the client.
• Jackie is a fan of a quote by one of her clients, who referred to succession planning as "their last act of client service."
• Tyson sees the advisory industry as focused on wanting Gen 2 to be the rainmaker, not realizing that, at some point, the team needs caretakers for their clients.
• Jackie touches upon a mindset shift she believes could help advisors: redefining what rainmaking means.
• The modern rainmaker should be something that achieves business development-propelled growth, not because they're selling something, but because they're serving someone.
• "Human capital is such an advantage in our industry", says Jackie while sharing several considerations leaders should keep into account to shape the future leadership bench of their firm.
• One of the biggest mistakes Tyson sees advisors make with their successor is to expect them to follow exactly in your footsteps to get to where you got to.
• However, if you think about it, what you did 5, 10, 20 years ago to get here now probably needs a different "who", "how", and "why"..!
• Jackie, Tyson, and Kim discuss ways to find talent and the right approach to firm growth and to develop a growth mindset.
• Fun fact: only 19% of kids stay with their parents' advisor.
• Jackie touches upon what she thinks makes a business more attractive to a potential buyer or to a successor who wants to take over.
• Taking a minute to evaluate where your firm is at is the first step Jackie suggests taking to future-proof the next generation of advisors.
• Tyson explains why, over the last few years, he purposefully capped his income – and the impact that move has had on his firm.

Mentioned in This Episode:

TotalSuccession.com

TotalSuccession.com/podcast

FORM Wealth Advisors

Tyson Ray

Kim Cochenour

Tyson's book - Total Succession: 5 Steps for Financial Advisors to Exit Confidently, Be Fully Compensated, and Keep Clients' Interests First

Jackie Wilke on LinkedIn

First Trust

First Trust blog and resources

J.D. Powers

The American College of Financial Services

LinkedIn

The Wolf of Wall Street

Tyson Ray's new book, Total Succession, actually didn't start as a book idea… but as a responsibility.

Kim Cochenour turns the mic on her co-host Tyson, to explore why succession is about far more than just retirement, and how identity, control, and legacy shape the decisions advisors struggle to make.

Tune in to hear the personal moments, hard-earned lessons, and the S.P.A.C.E. framework behind Total Succession – and why none of us get to the next chapter alone.

• This episode sees Kim Cochenour interview co-host Tyson Ray to discuss something that has been years in the making, and that is finally here: the Total Succession book!
• Tyson's motivation for writing the book comes from his passion for being a teacher-student who likes to learn things and share them with others.
• When Tyson became a father, he started to work on his estate planning, as well as on his clients and their roles beyond him.
• "If you have people that are entrusting you with their life savings, you might want to have a backup plan because none of us are guaranteed to be here tomorrow," Tyson points out.
• Kim stresses that succession isn't really about retirement or the reason why advisors struggle to plan – it's wrapped around their identity, control, legacy, and the things they've sacrificed along the way.
• Tyson and Kim go through the S.P.A.C.E. acronym – Seeing, Preparing, Act, Commit, Exit – and the role it plays within succession planning.
• As Kim emphasizes, "you didn't get to where you are on your own, so you're not going to get to that next stage on your own."

Mentioned in This Episode:

TotalSuccession.com

TotalSuccession.com/podcast

FORM Wealth Advisors

Tyson Ray

Kim Cochenour

Tyson's book - Total Succession: 5 Steps for Financial Advisors to Exit Confidently, Be Fully Compensated, and Keep Clients' Interests First