Trail Talk

In a world where graphics, video and pictures have gotten sharper than our eyes can perceive, one photographer dares to ask: what if we didn’t do that?

Bentley Zylstra has spent the better part of the past year learning the ropes of magazine publication, to bring us Revelry Collection — now available in print by clicking here.

"Interview Notes

0:52 — Why work in print?

1:45 — Getting started in photography

3:05 — Deciding to go analogue-only

4:38 — On “Photographic Overkill” (earlier article referenced)

5:50 — Replicating the feel of memories

7:00 — The struggles of starting a magazine

10:00 — Low effort filler content

12:15 — Fighting for clicks in the “attention economy”

15:00 — Zoom tries to censor the cover of Issue 001.

16:52 — The Red Bullification of outdoor media

16:20 — How to get your copy of Revelry Collection

20:09 — Getting your copy

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Original music for the Trail Talk podcast is produced by Ty Ellenbogen.

Subscribe to Cole’s Climb for more episodes, news, and resources.

Show Notes:

1:15 — Hannah’s outdoor background

5:00 — The basics: predicting your unpredictable weather

9:00 — Seeing from the rescuer’s point of view

12:15 — Surviving with the ten essentials

14:00 — How you can crowd rescue

16:00 — Wilderness survival skills for children

23:00 — Dressing kids for hiking trips

27:45 — The benefits of learning safety skills young

31:00 — Why you should take your kids hiking

38:00 — The enormous value in staying calm

Resources We Referenced:

“The Ten Essentials” Packing List Start Hiking on a Budget, Layering Guide, Extra Considerations for Women

8-year-old Nante Niemi has quite the survival story to share. After getting separated from his family while gathering firewood, the boy survived two cold nights alone in an area rescuers described as “rough terrain.”

Rescuers found him about two miles away from his family’s campsite.

The second grader says the experience won’t stop him from going camping again in the future.

This kid clearly had some great coaching from his parents on what to do in an emergency. But how do you teach a child about something this serious without scaring the pants off them, dooming them to stay indoors on an iPad for the rest of their days?

Hannah Gallagher is the Vice President of Lake County Search and Rescue, and mother of two young children. She’s joining me to give you a crash course in summer hiking safety — especially for parents bringing their kids into the great outdoors.

This advice is also applicable to those of you who are crew leaders, or perhaps more casually bringing your friends along for their first summit.

“Maybe just also have in Your back Pocket, some real Respect for what You’re Doing.”

I mentioned in an extremely early essay on Cole’s Climb — too early for most of you to have even read it — that I received a sobering warning about venturing into the outdoors, early in my career: The mountains are beautiful. But they’ll kill you if you let them.

Nature is so tangible, especially in places like the Rockies. But we shouldn’t confuse proximity or accessibility with ease. Hannah hits at the heart of this perception problem:

“Because they’re nearby, because lots of people do them, that it doesn’t take a lot of prep. You don’t really need to worry about it. it’s pretty safe. You know. But it is the backcountry. So when people need our help, they can expect to wait hours for us to get there.”

This is something I’m sure most of you know by now. But if you’re the leader of a group — or an adult responsible for a child — the respect, care, and planning you need to have become far more important. You’re not just planning for yourself. You’re planning for the group (or family) members who are less experienced, and less knowledgeable about what to bring and how to proceed.

“I’d Stop and I’d Find a Tree, and I’d Scream as loud as I could.”

This is the response Hannah has trained with her own kids ahead of their wilderness adventures. Maybe you found this article on a web search and don’t have time to listen to the full discussion before heading out. First off: welcome! I hope if you find this information useful, you’ll consider subscribing for more resources like it.

Second: I’ve distilled Hannah’s advice into three big skills and lessons that are reasonable to go over with a young child. They aren’t liable to scare them out of enjoying their time outside, and they’re simple enough that they can be recalled in an emergency.

“You start finding small chunks of things you can start repeating and drilling into their head until it’s second nature. And your hope is in a panicked moment, it would bubble to the top.”

1: Staying Put

One of the most important rules of survival: when in doubt, stay put. One of the only real missteps the boy made in his ordeal, was continuing to wander. According to the reporting I’ve seen: rescuers found him more than two miles from camp, which is quite a distance for a child.

He was also found in an area they had already searched, meaning he could have been rescued much earlier. Luckily, he was still okay. But the point stands.

2: Develop Situational Awareness, and Sense of Direction

This can be done by stopping on your trips often to ask your child: how did we get here? How would you get back? This doesn’t just apply in the woods. You can do this while running errands around town, too.

By the way, this isn’t just a tip for children. Adults can also get a lot out of this exercise. We’ve gotten quite comfortable with constant access to GPS technology. But in a crisis in a dead zone, or with a dead battery, it pays to have a general idea of where you are.

3: Dressing for Success (and Survival)

Obviously as a parent to a young child, you will be the ultimate arbiter of what they wear into the great outdoors. But that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be involved in the process, and thinking ahead about the weather.

Involving them in the packing process teaches a range of different lessons, largely dependent on their age. A younger child will start to understand the basics about regulating their own comfort. Older ones will start to grasp the importance of considering weather conditions, and eventually, the finer points of advanced layering.

Bonus Point for You to Consider

Whether you’re leading a child, or a less experienced friend, that other person is putting their trust in you. Good decision making becomes even more important. There are more scenarios that can cause things to spiral out of control for your group.

“This other person will follow you someplace, even if you’re making a bad choice. And so there’s a big responsibility there for any parent who’s taking a child into the woods to think about… is this a good choice for all the people who are with me?”

All of this isn’t to say you should leave the kids at home. After all, there is serious value in getting them accustomed to the outdoors from a young age. And if your end goal is to raise a child who has a profound love and respect for the outdoors, it really can’t be avoided.

You just need to plan with realistic expectations for what the members of your group can accomplish, and celebrate the little wins. You may find yourself having a greater appreciation for tiny details along your journey.

“We have a Mantra in our Household, where we say: "‘We can do Hard Things.’”

At the end of the day, it’s not bad for your children — or your friends — to experience a little adversity. Overcoming something tough to stand on top of a mountain can be an extremely rewarding experience that builds their confidence.

You have to take on extra responsibility, but when done right, you’re inspiring others to love and respect the outdoors the way you do.

“It’s hard — It’s extra hard, but it’s also got this whole extra beautiful sweetness to it that maybe you wouldn’t have experienced without them along for the ride.”

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Trail Talk has always been about shining light on those who are doing great things in the outdoor community.

With “Colorado Gives Day,” coming up: I thought this would be the perfect opportunity to speak with a handful of groups who working to bring those positive changes, and could use your support.

You don’t need to be in Colorado to contribute. And even if donating is not something you are able to do right now: the conversation offers an interesting look at the future of the outdoor community, and why the fight for conservation and access is changing.

If you do feel inclined to make a contribution: you can do so at these links:

* Colorado Fourteeners Initiative

* Panadero Ski Corporation

* Chris Anthony Youth Initiative Project

Colorado Fourteeners Initiative [1:09 — 27:55]

Lloyd Athearn, Executive Director

If you’ve watched my documentary, The Alpine Amusement Park, you may already be familiar with CFI’s work. Since the 90’s, this organization has been tasked with the difficult duty of building up and preserving trails that were never quite meant to exist.

Almost all of the 14ers were unplanned bushwhacks. The routes themselves are oftentimes steep and unstable, and originate in tiny trailhead parking lots that can no longer meet demand.

Much of CFI’s work involves restoration and trail hardening.

But more recently: projects are getting more complicated. Lloyd explains that future trail access will involve sorting through messy landholding issues, where some trails run across private land claims.

Future projects CFI is looking at:

* Mt. Elbert: both the Northeast and Black Cloud routes

* Mt. Shavano: a complicated operation involving buying mining claims, possible helicopter lifts

* Expanding Sustainable Trail Inventories: a program that surveys routes, foot-by-foot to help plan future restoration work

* Education Initiatives: work to show the public how fragile the alpine ecosystem is, and how it can be protected

Panadero Ski Corp. [28:58 — 51:14]

Will Pirkey, Board Member

Don’t let the “corp.,” fool you; this group is a 501c3 non-profit. I’ve followed their efforts closely, as they work to restore lift-served skiing to the long-abandoned Cuchara Mountain Park. In case you missed it, here’s my earlier Trail Talk episode cataloguing their work.

Cuchara Mountain Park is a fascinating cause to contribute to, because as Will explains: the project is helping the community on multiple levels.

The park has potential to bring tourism revenue to one of the poorest counties in Colorado. It will also provide access to recreation to a community that does not currently have it. And on the most macro level: it helps preserve the dying breed of affordable, local ski hills.

Mega-passes are convenient for die-hard riders who clock dozens of days on the slopes each year. But they’ve led to a huge frontloading of costs that keep snow sports out of reach for many newcomers — particularly large families.

As is the case with the Colorado Fourteeners Initiative, Panadero Ski Corp. is also securing more public land. When Cuchara’s old owners abandoned the place, they kept their private property holdings. This strip of land around the base area acted as a buffer wall, keeping locals from accessing the expansive Forest Service land beyond.

By purchasing that land from the county, the Cuchara Foundation (which later spawned the offshoot Panadero Ski Corp) removed that barrier to public access.

Future projects Panadero is looking at:

* Lift 4: the main focus remains getting lift 4 certified and operational

* Expanded services: when lift-served skiing returns, a great deal of infrastructure such as ski schools and rental services will need to be built out

* Bike/hiking trails: providing more year-round recreation opportunities on site

If you are interested in contributing to these plans, you can donate by clicking the button below:

Chris Anthony Youth Initiative Project [51:55— 1:12:03]

Chris Anthony, Founder

“The mission of the Chris Anthony Youth Initiative Project is to improve quality of life through introducing youth to educational enrichment opportunities. We do this by putting mentors in the classroom, bridging students to experiential opportunities beyond the classroom, providing financial support, and building educational tools that enhance the classroom experience.”

As I have previously covered on the Base Camp News section of Cole’s Climb: Chris Anthony has actually entered into a partnership with Panadero Ski Corp., to help get more children in southern Colorado on skis.

Aside from being a world-class skier and filmmaker, Colorado legend Chris Anthony also runs his “Youth Initiative Project.” This foundation works to provide children in underserved communities with the opportunity to try snow sports.

While skiing is certainly front and center, the Youth Initiative Project works to bring kids other enrichment opportunities too, such as field trips and other projects. In our interview, Chris discusses one class that is working together to build their own skate park.

A big function of this project helps kids find a strong purpose that can help guide them through life — an especially important goal at a time when young people in America are feeling more directionless than ever before.

There are a great many charities and causes worthy of your support this holiday season. Of course — I can only highlight a select few that I believe are making a unique impact on the outdoor community.

Wherever your interests lie, I do hope you will consider making some kind of charitable donation in the spirit of the holiday season.

Thank you for taking time out of your day to listen, and read! If you’d like to hear more about the incredible people affecting change in the outdoor community, consider a free subscription to Cole’s Climb, to get content like this in your inbox weekly.

Take the ski season survey here

NEDERLAND, CO — November 10, 2022

Eldora Ski Area will open for its 60th anniversary season a full week earlier than expected: November 11th, 2022. There are significant changes this year that you’ll need to know about before driving up the canyon. I’ll break those down in just a moment.

First: we’re checking in with the team that is making opening day possible — Justin Denning, with the snowmaking crew.

You can listen to the full interview by clicking the play-head above. It’s pretty short, so I’m going to forgo the usual “show notes” with time stamps, and just include the pertinent info here.

Justin and the rest of the team have been hard at work to secure this opening day run, highlighted in green:

Repeat riders will recognize it as the pretty standard, Hornblower-into-International route. It’s a pretty solid opening day run, but it’s not one I’d recommend for beginners. If you are just starting off — honestly, wait a few weeks until more terrain is open. Things will be less hectic and stressful for you.

First chair will be at Alpenglow six-pack lift, at 9:00 a.m..

Parking on Powder Days

A huge change this year is coming to Eldora’s parking system. The lot has been a tight squeeze for years, with late arrivals occasionally having to wait down in Nederland to get the green light that spaces have opened up.

For this season, Eldora says it has expanded its parking area by roughly 50%. There will also be a designated electric vehicle lot, with 15 charging stations.

When it’s Crowded:

After holding off for the past two seasons, Eldora will now start enforcing its carpool policy. On weekends and holidays:

* If you’re driving by yourself, you’ll have to pay $10 extra to park.

* If you’re driving with one other person, parking is free

* If you’re driving with two or more other people, you get rock star parking.

Parking is still free for everyone on non-weekend, non holidays, unless…

During Big Dumps:

…Eldora gets ten inches of snow, or more. On these days, if you come alone, you’ll be charged that extra fee. As of right now, I’m waiting to hear back from Eldora on how these fees will be collected, and when and how they will notify visitors the fee will be in effect.

In fairness to Eldora: I don’t actually know how many days out of the season this will even matter. 10 inch powder dumps aren’t exactly common on the front range. Eldora is also offering free RTD and shuttle tickets on weekends, and certain other days.

Preventing Crowding

At a certain point, all ski areas can reach a level of crowding I actually consider dangerous. Different mountains are choosing to handle this in different ways; which I plan to make the topic of a future story.

To do that, I need to get a better idea of how everyone gets to the mountain. If you have a moment, consider completing this quick survey:

Take the ski season survey here

Thank you for reading, and I’ll see you on the slopes!

If you found this article useful, consider a free subscription to Cole’s Climb.

14 days. 17 hours. 33 minutes.

This summer, Dan Hobbs broke an unusual and difficult record that had stood for more than two decades: the fastest self-supported summit, of every Colorado 14er.

The “self-supported” part of the record is important, because it means Dan crossed the finish line by himself. In addition to climbing, he had to drive between every peak, handle his own food, and somehow shoehorn in time for sleep.

Interview Notes

0:30 — Trail Talk turns 1
1:30 — How Dan started climbing
5:40 — Setting sights on the self-supported record
8:00 — “The Beast,” Dan’s record-breaking vehicle
10:00 — Developing a dairy allergy along the trip.
13:00 — The highs and lows of the trip
14:45 — Advice from the previous record holder
17:15 — A scary situation on the Maroon Bells traverse
19:00 — Dealing with sleep deprivation
20:00 — An anti-climactic finish
23:30 — Climbing out of mental health issues
25:45 — Entering “The God Zone”
31:20 — Coming back to the real world
35:35 — Finding the next challenge to tackle
37:00 — Meeting the previous record-holder, Peter Jones

Check out the full trip report, and leave a comment over on Colenoble.substack.com

Many of you in the climbing community have probably seen Jeremy Ashcroft’s work — even if you don’t know who he is. Jeremy started work as technical illustrator, doing precision drawings of complicated equipment.

“I certainly enjoy doing big faces, big walls and crags. So, the climbing terrain, I really find that quite challenging. That’s the sort of place I want to be, so I enjoy drawing it.”

Jeremy was working on drawings for nuclear submarines when he had the idea to approach mountains with the same precision, capturing incredible detail in ways that conventional maps or drawings simply can’t.

“I was pretty bored with what I was doing and I thought, I could apply the same sort of stuff to mountains — I mean, as a mountaineer I was obsessed with that as well — And I thought, oh, if I can draw a complicated thing like a nuclear submarine, I can surely do the same for a mountain.”

“It Gelled with People. They Could see Familiar Locations. They Could see it from a High Viewpoint, but it was still Recognizable to Them on the Ground.”

Interview Notes

0:45 — Earliest memories art
2:00 — What is a technical illustrator?
4:30 — From nuclear submarines to mountains
6:00 — Jeremy’s time in the United States
8:35 — How Colorado 14ers differ from other mountains around the world
13:30 — The evolution of climbing resources
16:00 — Working for Trail Magazine
18:50 — How Jeremy picks his peaks to draw
22:00 — Finishing the 14ers project
23:00 — How to draw things you’ve never seen

If you’d like to check out Jeremy’s work: he sells prints of his drawings, You can also follow his work on Instagram or Twitter.

The 2015 Gorka Earthquake killed 8,790 people — including 19 on Mt. Everest — and left more than 22,000 others injured. The quake hit just before noon, Nepal Standard Time; shortly after Jim Davidson reached Camp One on the world’s highest peak.

The resulting avalanches pulverized basecamp. The necessary ropes and ladders between basecamp and C1 were swallowed by crevasses or pulverized by gargantuan chunks of ice and debris in the Khumbu Icefall.

Climbers in C1 and C2 were uninjured but trapped. The expedition lacked necessary equipment to rebuild the route through the Icefall. After a long wait: they opted to try a risky high altitude helicopter evacuation.

After a successful emergency airlift, Jim and his fellow climbers began the long journey home, working to help the Nepali people suffering the impacts of the earthquake along the way.

Jim Davidson documents this survival story, journey home, and eventual return in his book: The Next Everest.

Interview Notes

1:00 — The proper process for Everest5:00 — Shoring up against threats to your expedition7:15 — What it means to be an “eyes open traveler”10:40 — The Everest packing list12:00 — High altitude = less brain power16:00 — The day of the Gorka Quake22:30 — Frantic moments in an emergency26:00 — How to survive for the sake of your family28:30 — The agony of waiting during a crisis32:00 — Choosing what matters, and what to leave behind34:30 — Turning from “never again,” to “going back.”38:00 — Post traumatic growth: prepping better the second time40:45 — A close call near the summit44:00 — How the expedition withers your body50:00 — The key takeaways from the book53:00 — What to do after accomplishing your biggest goal

Get more interviews like this one for free, by subscribing to Cole’s Climb

“You Need to Make Dozens of Mistakes on Dozens of Climbs, so You Don’t Make that Mistake up High.”

Preparing for Everest takes years — even decades before you begin physically training for the goal. One of the most important stages of prep work involves making errors on other adventures, when the stakes are lower. This lets you refine your packing process, learn your weaknesses, and figure out how you can better prepare in the future.

I’m sure you can relate to this process of trial and error, even if it wasn’t on the mountain: what’s something you got wrong, that helped you better prepare for a future situation?

Of course — a simple mistake on Everest can bring potentially life-threatening consequences. As Jim points out in our discussion: something as simple as forgetting sunscreen can be extremely dangerous.

“Nothing New on Race Day”

Speaking of packing: in an environment when tiny details could be the difference between life and death, you need to be extremely well acquainted with your gear.

* How do your socks fit in your boots when your feet swell?

* Do your gloves feel awkward when adjusting your straps and jacket?

* Are your pants getting caught on your climbing harness?

These are questions you must be able to answer before your expedition.

“It’s okay to learn the hard way on smaller races, and smaller climbs. but when you get to the Olympics final, or when you get to Everest, you don’t want to make those mistakes. So, make them elsewhere and bring that knowledge and good gear with you.”

“The Higher You go; the Dumber You get.”

There also needs to be a great degree of familiarity with how your equipment functions. These things should be muscle-memory by the time you reach Everest. When you are in a low oxygen environment, your cognitive capabilities take a big hit.

Things that seem simple at sea level become difficult to grasp when you’re in the Death Zone. In those moments, being comfortable clipping into a safety line or correctly adjusting your equipment could save your life.

The Day of the Quake

After two consecutive avalanches hit, lifting their tent off the ground, Jim and his tentmate realized they were in an earthquake. The Next Everest describes a constant trade-off on the mountains between safety and speed: lingering too long in a questionable spot can be dangerous. But so can proceeding without proper protective gear.

In the initial shaking, Jim was concerned the tent could be swept off the mountain. He thought his best chance of staying on top of the avalanche would be outside. So, Jim ran out of the tent with an avalanche beacon — but no shoes.

“I ran out into the snow in my socks! Now, that doesn’t sound like somebody who has been climbing for 34 years. But that’s because I thought about how long it was going to take me and said, ‘heck with this.’ I’m not sure going outside without boots on was a very good long-term decision. But at the moment, I couldn’t justify the time.”

The hours and days that followed would involve a lot of waiting: for an escape plan, for the rescue chopper, for the airport backlog to be cleared, and for a flight home. The journey would also involve moving from a place of relative, temporary safety, through areas the earthquake hit with increasing intensity.

At each step of the journey, Jim and his fellow climbers tried to fill this time by pitching in to help the local community.

“By helping others, you’re helping others yourself as well. That kind of hardship forges heartiness.”

“The Turning from that ‘Never Wanting to go There’ to Actually Wanting to go back — it was a Slow, Handwringing, Almost Reluctant Process.”

Jim explained he felt awful being safe at home while Nepal struggled. He spent time speaking, raising money, and encouraging others to visit the country to help the economy once the recovery was underway.

This process of raising awareness gradually changed Jim’s mind. He still dreamed of summiting Everest, and after encouraging others to visit Nepal, Jim decided to lead by example.

“It was a big pill to swallow. But I also knew that by taking on big challenges — that’s what allows me to refine myself into a better version of me. I think that’s the advantage of taking on any big challenge.”

Living through the 2015 disaster also changed the way Jim prepared for his return trip. For example: after borrowing a satellite phone to contact his family members while marooned at Camp One, Jim upgraded his communication setup.

But there was also a lot of fear to overcome. In his book: Jim describes the unease that followed the quake. He went so far as to try and sleep while wearing his boots, beacon, and helmet in the event another avalanche struck at night. In our discussion, Jim described moving past these worries as “post traumatic growth.”

“You’re Leaving a Piece of Yourself — Mentally and Physically — on the Mountain.”

During his second trip, Jim was on the mountain much longer, and explains the challenges of life in camp. Because of the lack of high-protein food, climbers burn through pounds of muscle, wasting away for the weeks they spend on the mountain.

Jim also endured solemn, and scary moments on his final push to the summit: passing the remains of two deceased climbers, while having a gear malfunction that caused him to lose feeling in his foot.

“You see them passed away and you have to start asking yourself some very hard questions. Did something minor happen to their equipment? Should they have taken the hint?”

While ultimately able to fix his technical problem: Jim also writes about the additional considerations that come with being a climber with a family back home. It’s something that also came up in our discussion as well:

“Your friends and family — they don’t really care if you summited the mountain or not. They want you to achieve your dream and they’re happy if you reach that. But frankly they just want you to come again, safe and sound.

Ultimately, I had to as the question I’m sure you’re wondering about Everest: how was the view?

“It was like being an astronaut looking down on the earth; it was a magical moment for sure.”

“After Enlightenment, Then Chop Wood.”

After standing at the highest point in the world, you have to come down. Jim tells me that he was up there for about 15 minutes out of the entire 6-week expedition. As a high-altitude climber, where do you go from here?

Jim describes this challenge with the Buddhist saying: After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. Your goal is not your final destination. Afterward, you go back to your normal life, routine, and chores. But you return an improved person, with a different understanding to apply to that routine.

Then, you set your sights on something new.

“I think that’s the real beauty, is to pick a big challenge. A challenge that makes you nervous, that scares you. Because you’re going to have to do more, and you’re going to have to become more. And that’s where the magic lies.”

And of course — as we’ve discussed many times before here on Cole’s Climb — the goal itself isn’t what changes you. As Jim beautifully puts it: change comes in the process of becoming the person who can achieve that goal.

If you enjoyed this discussion, please share it!

One more time: if you’d like to check out Jim’s book, you can get “The Next Everest,” here. It’s well-worth your time.

Original music for the Trail Talk podcast is composed and produced by Ty Ellenbogen.

If you like what you listened to, please do consider subscribing. I’d love to have you in the responsible outdoor community. I promise to never spam your inbox, and only share the best interviews, stories, and reporting on the outdoor community.

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Spending time outside is great for getting fresh perspective or finding inspiration. It’s also a great way to get a dopamine detox from the chaos and overstimulation of the hectic world we live in. Matt, from Fog Chaser explains how he uses this to his advantage when composing music.

“I Think we all just Have to Find what Fills our Cups, as Individuals.”

For Matt, music was an important creative outlet for dealing with difficulties. He didn’t play as a child, learning guitar later in his teenage years and eventually striving to pick up every instrument he could.

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“There’s a Beauty in Being Able to just make Something that Wasn’t there Before. For Me it’s Calming, and Meditative.”

There’s something satisfying and relaxing about the creative process. When I paint, I find the minutes melt away along with external worries and concerns. For Matt, that serenity comes from “meditations” — his name for the monthly songs he sends out to his listeners.

It’s been a while since this particular one came out. But it happens to be one of my favorites, because of how deeply rooted it is in nature.

Matt says the name “meditation,” applies more to his end of the process, and that he hopes listeners aren’t expecting a guided meditation. But I disagreed with him a little on this topic; I think they evoke the same feeling from listeners.

Our culture seems to take great pride in meditation. But its accepted definition has expanded to include a lot of what I call active noise. Many meditation apps and podcasts demand quite a bit of your attention. I find it hard to clear my mind while someone is telling me what to think. In this regard: many of these tools wind up simply adding another layer to the ambient noise level.

Interview Notes:

0:45 — Introducing Matt1:45 — Getting into to music3:15 — Turning to music to cope with adversity6:20 — Matt’s “meditations”10:30 — Three minutes of calm12:10 — Struggling with sensory overload14:30 — Offering an oasis from chaos18:00 — Matt’s creative residency23:00 — How to make others feel what you’re feeling26:00 — Where visuals and music mix, with Sturgill Simpson30:00 — Finding an audience, and connecting directly32:00 — How to break out of a creative funk35:10 — Go touch grass.36:45 — Searching for a single square inch of silence on Earth43:00 — The difficulties of noise and distraction

“I’ve Started to Get Really Obsessed with Silent Places in our World. I Think that’s Where the Nature Aspect Comes in; the Desire for Spaces Free of Human Noise.”

The cool part about quiet spaces is they’re not actually quiet — not completely. Even in the podcast you’re listening to right now. There’s an almost imperceptible noise floor; the sum of all the ambient sound in the rooms where Matt and I recorded our interview. If I edited it out, you’d notice.

A lot of things that make up our urban or suburban ambiance are quite loud: traffic, air conditioning units, appliances, etc. Out in nature, we are able to focus on more subtle sounds.

I’ve written before about my love of walking through pine forests because of the very specific creaking sound the trees make when they twist in the wind. Matt sometimes goes out hunting for sounds like this one. Later, he incorporates the sounds into the songs themselves.

I love the idea of literally chasing these noises, like some kind of elusive animal. The process requires us to shed the distractions and immerse ourselves in a kind of quiet that many of us are uncomfortable with.

Matt’s work inspired me to write more about this phenomenon. I’m quite proud of it and it seemed to resonate with a lot of you. If you missed it: I break down an interesting scientific fact that explains why recordings of nature don’t have the same impact on your body as the real thing.

“I Wanted Folks to see what I’m Seeing in the Music.”

Still, Matt does a great job making you feel like you’re right there with him, watching the steam rise off the leaves and creeks.

Part of the reason I enjoy Fog Chaser so much, is because it pops up in my inbox — a very busy place in my life — and promises me a little oasis from chaos. I don’t need to engage. It’s not about another dopamine hit. I can just let my mind try to find calm

“I Thought it Would be Really Cool to be Able to E-mail a Song to Somebody, that has a Play Button.”

Fog Chaser wasn’t Matt’s first big musical endeavor. He’s also part of a band called Reddening West. But the conventional music industry can be difficult, and often requires you to be more of a social media influencer, than an artist.

“In the world of music… you’re playing shows, and the album release cycle is anti-climactic. It’s very stressful. It’s de-motivating sometimes because you want people to listen, but nobody is really listening.”

Part of his reason for creating the Fog Chaser publication was to develop direct relationships with his listeners. He’s also working to help others better connect to the natural world, unplug from chaos, and focus on the present.

“The relief of that; to feel untethered, and to feel just connected to what’s right in front of you — whether that’s the campfire, or your partner, or your pet, or the birds, or your friends — that’s a feeling I’m chasing now.”

More about Matt

Matt is part of a band called Reddening West. You can check out their music here. You can also receive monthly music meditations by subscribing to Fog Chaser. For more frequent updates about his creative process, you can check him out on Instagram, or Twitter.

I’m doing something a little different this week. Matt and I will be holding a joint discussion thread. This Saturday at 8:08 a.m. MST., we’ll be talking about finding inspiration in nature, and outdoor escapes from sensory overload. You’ll also be able to ask Matt more about his music.

If you’re not subscribed yet: now’s a great time to sign up to make sure you’re not missing out!

And of course, if you’re already signed up: thank you so much for your continued support. I cherish the community we’re building here and love your feedback!

Subscribe now for interviews, news, and stories impacting the outdoor activities we all love!

“You Really don’t Know what You’re Getting into, Until You get there.”

Rachel always had a fascination with travel, taking her first real trip to New Zealand on summer break from college, doing work-for-accommodation to pay for her journey.

Years later: remote work gave Rachel the opportunity to take her life to the road, exploring far beyond the reaches of civilization. She’s been documenting her adventures and embracing her love for photography and self-portraiture ever since.

“More People Should Flirt with the Idea of not Buying the Idea of the White Picket Fence and the Golden Retriever, and the ‘American Dream…’ I Think it’s Important to Stray from the Sidewalk a Little bit more.”

This journey has taken Rachel to some truly breathtaking places. The type of travel she does is called boondocking — which is a bit of a happy-medium between primitive camping and staying in RV parks.

Boondocking involves temporary stays, usually on Forest Service land. The maximum time you can stay in a spot is two weeks, but trips are usually cut shorter than that for resource reasons. I’ll get to that in a minute…

Interview Notes:

1:00 — Catching the travel bug3:15 — The daily routine4:00 — The hidden research side of #vanlife6:05 — Challenges and limitations of boondocking7:40 — Overlapping difficulties: remote cabins, and life on the road8:40 — Making Amazon Prime work while on the road9:45 — You’ve got mail10:30 — Getting help in the middle of nowhere12:00 — Map hacks that will save you money13:10 — Judging towns by their Laundromats16:51 — Storm chasing on the road: getting interested in weather20:00 — Capturing lightning21:20 — Waiting for the right storm to roll in23:00 — Looking for extras to help your picture stand out24:00 — Making your photography unique25:30 — Worrying about lightning27:00 — Our close brushes with death28:30 — The Haboobs roll in30:00 — Finding cloud-to-cloud lightning32:00 — Harsh lessons in the outdoors33:00 — An exit strategy for life on the road?36:30 — Learning not to lose your life to overthinking38:00 — Letting go of material attachments during a crisis41:00 — Getting used to packing light42:30 — How to get started down this road

“Whatever comes out of you, needs to come out of your RV”

The biggest complication, Rachel says, has been water management. When your freshwater tank is empty, your trip is over.

When your blackwater tank is full, your trip is over.

The shortage of water also means that some other modern comforts — like a washer and drier — are out-boarded too. Doing the laundry means trips into the nearest town, which can become its own kind of adventure.

“You never know what you’re gonna get at a laundromat. I have met some of the more interesting people of my life in laundromats. And it’s crazy right: because sometimes you can get almost like a Zen garden feel; you get the heavenly aroma of the jasmine, the lavender fabric softener. Other times, it’s just a chaotic mess — you have people fighting over driers — it’s just a fun place to see a little bit of the community.”

Boondocking — or van life if you take that route, Rachel explains the different benefits and drawbacks in our discussion — also complicates other tasks like collecting the mail. Rachel still uses Prime, but has deliveries shipped to Amazon lockers near her temporary location. It’s still feasible; just requires more planning.

Listeners and readers may be surprised to learn how much advance prep-work goes into this lifestyle. As much as — on the outside — things appear carefree and spontaneous, you can’t fly blind without running into trouble.

“Mother Nature is Epic”

Boondocking has also allowed Rachel to pursue another passion: storm photography. Getting shots like these does involve some watching and waiting. But again: you don’t catch lightning without a bit of forethought.

“If I see something cool, I’ll drop a pin. Now I have dozens and dozens of pins and coordinates. And then I overlay that with the radar. So now, if there’s a storm crossing that old barn I passed a while back, I can go ahead and set up. I already know there’s a cool foreground there, so I’ll just wait for the right storm to roll in.”

One of the teachers I learned photography from had an interesting philosophy. When he went to tourist destinations and popular spots, it was always his goal to take a unique picture; something no one else had thought of. That could come from unusual angles, different lighting settings or focal lengths.

What I love about Rachel’s approach to storm photography is that she is creating photos that no one else could replicate, even if they wanted to: layering an eye-catching foreground over a wild, dangerous subject that exists only for that instant.

“I want to Know more, but not too much more if that Makes Sense. Because I love the Mystery of it. I Think that’s the Beauty of it too: I don’t want to know it all.”

Rachel has always been interested in meteorology and went into news production in the hopes she could see weather in the field as a photographer. In the end, this path may have been for the best — not wanting to pull back the curtain completely and demystify the experience.

“I want to make Sure that my 80-year-old Self, and my 8-year-old Self, in the end, are Happy.”

I asked Rachel if there’s an endgame or an exit strategy for her life on the road. After all: she does still have a storage locker somewhere full of worldly possessions.

For now, though: there’s no end in sight. Just exploration, and a wide-open world to experience.

Seeing more of Rachel’s Work

Most of Rachel’s content is available on Instagram. She also keeps a travel log of her adventures over on her website, where you can also support her journey by purchasing her photographs.

Follow Rachel on Instagram

Support Rachel’s Photography

I Want to Hear from You

Have you ever considered life on the road? Is there a favorite place or landmark you’d like to see? Do you enjoy watching thunderstorms as much as I do?

Last time I asked you all to share your favorite pictures of incredible views, you didn’t disappoint. If you have any of your own cloud, storm, or lightning pictures, I’d love to see them! As always, you can e-mail me at [email protected].

More Great Reads

In today’s episode, I mention an earlier interview with Kelton Wright. She writes a fantastic publication called Shangrilogs — all about living in a remote mountain town.

There’s a fascinating amount of overlap between living the RV life and living in a tiny cabin. If today’s episode interested you, go check out Kelton’s recent interview with a retired smokejumper. It’s absolutely fascinating!

Almost Forgot…

I mention map-making in the podcast discussion. To save money, I use sites like Topo Zone to generate local maps and print them for free. Then I stick them in a plastic bag so they’re safe from the elements.

Click the button above to generate your own map. All you need is the name of the area, trailhead, or landmark you’re exploring.

If you enjoy the Trail Talk theme song, it was composed and produced specially by the very talented Ty Ellenbogen. Check out his other music here:

Snow sports have been trending in a direction that’s more affordable in the long term. But it’s done at the expense of a much higher financial barrier to entry for new riders. The Panadero Ski Corporation is working to change that.

To support independent writing and get access to interviews, stories, and original reporting on the outdoors: subscribe to Cole’s Climb today!

Going Back in Time

In the back half of 1981, lifts started spinning at “Panadero.” Over the years, the property changed names and hands, opening and closing many times before finally shuttering operations for good in 2000.

The base area — dozens of acres of private property — effectively walled off access to the skiing terrain on the forest service land beyond.

In 2017, the Cuchara Foundation helped purchase that land for Huerfano County with the goal of creating year-round outdoor access and recreation opportunities. The foundation donated $25,000 to the county for the down payment on the land, then later worked to raise the remaining $125,000 to give to the county to pay for it in full.

Will Pirkey is a board member with the Panadero Ski Corporation. It’s a non-profit that spun off of the Cuchara Foundation in 2019. Its mission: restore the old Lift 4 and revive the lower part of the abandoned ski area.

Quick side note for readers and listeners:

I’m aware that many of you discovered Cole’s Climb after clicking over from The Storm Skiing Journal. By coincidence, this week’s content somewhat straddles the worlds of ski area operations and expanding outdoor access.

I’m glad to have you here, as well as all the other new subscribers who have recently signed up. And of course, if you haven’t checked out the Storm Skiing Journal, I highly recommend you do so.

Interview Notes:

1:30 — History of the Old Resort3:30 — How the public lost access to the land4:15 — The creation of the park6:00 — Access to the outdoors, year-round6:45 — Plans for the future8:45 — The next milestone: opening the lift11:15 — When will guests be welcomed in?14:30 — Keeping skiing affordable16:45 — Filling the need in a ski resort desert20:00 — Finding an affordable option for recreation26:00 — How you can get involved28:00 — Backcountry access

“One of the Challenges was to Find Schematics for an old Riblet Chair… They’re no Longer in Business, so We had to Find Some Schematics to Actually Find out: Here’s how We Wire this Correctly.”

The Panadero Ski Corporation has approached this project the way one would restore a cool artifact of history: carefully inspecting and x-raying the chair lift components to ensure everything is in safe, working condition.

After quite a bit of work, Pirkey tells me the project is near the finish line. The next step will be getting the lift certified so they can purchase insurance, and welcome guests.

Best case scenario: this will be done in time for their upcoming Summer Celebration and fundraiser on July 2nd.

“It is Part of our Mission to Make Skiing and Riding Affordable and Accessible to Everyone.”

Pirkey says selling lift tickets will be necessary to cover operations cost. But the goal is to make the place one of the most affordable places to ride in Colorado.

Cuchara Mountain Park is located in a region relatively far from other big mountains and resorts. Having lift-served terrain would offer an amenity to nearby communities that would otherwise need to drive hours to a resort.

“We’re not looking to make any money. We’re just looking to break even, cover our expenses, and if we get a little bit extra: to grow the experience and enhance the experience.”

“I Think we have a Niche that Needs to be Filled in the Ski Industry as a Whole. And that is: People who Haven’t Gotten into the Sport and who face Financial Barriers to do so. It’s a lot of Money to put up Front to See, ‘Do I even like this?’”

An issue I’ve noticed in recent years is the inherent problem with the growing ski pass model: unlimited access passes are great for experienced skiers and snowboarders. But it also front-loads the cost for beginners.

Day tickets in Colorado have surged close to the $200 mark for many resorts. That’s a lot of money for a first timer to spend on something they’re not sure about.

Pirkey also points out that for a family of four: you can easily pay $500 for a single day. That’s going to drastically limit how often you can come to the mountain and impede progress in learning how to ride.

“The Vision for the Mountain is to Provide Year-Round Recreation”

While the Panadero Ski Corporation is focused on the lift operations, the goal of Cuchara Mountain Park is to be a gateway to year-round outdoor activities.

Pirkey mentioned access for mountain biking could be coming down the road as well.

“I Think we do have a Cool Story, and the More People Learn About it, the More Power in numbers to help us Fund this and get it up and Rolling.”

The Panadero Ski Corporation is in a fundraising push to gather enough money to have their lift inspected. Will says this is one of their last hurdles to clear before the park can start sending guests up the hill and taking in money from low-cost lift tickets.

Right now, they are looking for donations or volunteer help — especially if you have specialized knowledge in the ski industry. To pitch in, click the button below to learn more!

Did You Like the New Music?

Quick little end note: long-time listeners may have noticed the intro/outro music for trail talk has changed. The last episode on the crazy sport of Ski Joring didn’t have any.

Most of the prior ones — including this fascinating conversation on what it takes to live in a cabin in the middle of nowhere — actually use a tune that now appears in CarMax commercials.

It was getting expensive to maintain the rights, and it didn’t quite suit the vibe I was looking for. So instead, I commissioned the highly talented Ty Ellenbogen to create a new song.

You can check out more of his work on Spotify, or his website, here!