In this episode, Nick speaks with Richard Mollica. Some people say, “My childhood sucked,” or “My parents were awful”… Then there’s Rich, his childhood sucked, and his parents really were awful (early in life), yet he serves and gives his heart to those in need. They cover some seriously tough and deep subjects, from human trafficking to redeemed relationships and a WHOLE LOT in between.

About Richard Mollica

Richard Mollica is a counselor with 24 years of experience in drug and alcohol and Mental Health Services. Is a passionate advocate for anti-trafficking and abolition in our country. He is currently the senior pastor at St. John’s United Church of Christ Easton Pennsylvania.

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Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

00:00:14:05 – 00:00:41:14

Nick McGowan

Hello and welcome to The Mindset and Self-mastery Show. I’m your host, Mick McGowan. And on this show my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us and the lives we lead on our path to self-mastery. Today on the show, we have Rich Mollica Rich as a counselor and pastor outside of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, who grew up being taught that men are sociopaths and that beating and mistreating women was not only normal, but it was expected of men, which is completely wrong.

00:00:41:21 – 00:00:57:10

Nick McGowan

But Rich has some incredible stories and insight from his experiences and shares great tips for anyone in a difficult situation for dealing with difficult and toxic people in their lives. So let’s not wait any longer. Let the games begin.

00:01:03:12 – 00:01:07:01

Nick McGowan

Rich Hello and welcome to the show. I’m so glad you’re with us.

00:01:07:09 – 00:01:09:03

Rich Mollica

Thanks for having me, Nick. It’s good to be here.

00:01:10:01 – 00:01:24:02

Nick McGowan

Man. I’m glad that you’re here. So you and I kind of go way back. But from, let’s say, from the neighborhood, in a sense. Can you tell us one thing that you do for a living and one thing that most people don’t know about you?

00:01:24:16 – 00:01:48:09

Rich Mollica

So I, I do a lot of work with addictions, human trafficking, as in my role as a pastor. And one thing people may not know about me is, is that part of my work over the past ten years has involved a lot of getting people out of situations when they’re there in human trafficking and they’re under pimp domination.

00:01:48:18 – 00:01:55:06

Nick McGowan

And some pretty heavy stuff right off the bat. Wow. So what would you say that most people don’t know that about you?

00:01:56:01 – 00:02:21:15

Rich Mollica

Well, I mean, the people that are close to me know I’m passionate about it, but people that I just, you know, kind of know passingly or that work with me. And as a pastor or as an addiction counselor, I think the majority of people don’t even know that that issue exists locally. So when I tell people about it, you know, a lot of times they have a misconception about what I’m doing.

00:02:21:15 – 00:02:30:14

Rich Mollica

They think I’m I’m working with foreign nationals or I’m doing international stuff. It’s American citizens in Upper Darby, Allentown.

00:02:30:23 – 00:02:38:06

Nick McGowan

Let’s take a step back. Give us some context. How did you get to where you’re at today and what makes you you today?

00:02:38:20 – 00:03:07:06

Rich Mollica

So I came up in a really traumatic family. There was incest, alcoholism, domestic violence, suicide. And I was just really, really struggling, you know, and I thought I found my solution in drugs and in a particular lifestyle. It left me drier than I started. And I didn’t want to live that way anymore, but I didn’t know what, you know, what are my alternatives?

00:03:07:06 – 00:03:25:02

Rich Mollica

You know, I didn’t see any trailblazers showing me a different way. And then I got to a place where I had a spiritual awakening and I was able to connect to some people that I didn’t know existed that were about, you know, coming from the kind of life I had into a life that was healthy and hopeful.

00:03:25:10 – 00:03:29:21

Nick McGowan

What about that has led you to do what you do today?

00:03:30:18 – 00:03:56:09

Rich Mollica

I heard people a lot of times say, like, you know, you become who you needed. And I think that’s a lot of my story. I needed somebody that wasn’t going to judge me, that wasn’t going to, you know, try to control me or put an agenda on me. But that was going to walk and journey with me in and love while at the same time telling me, you know, you’re going to step on your own arrows, buddy.

00:03:56:14 – 00:04:13:13

Rich Mollica

Like, you know, you got to switch it up or you’re going to get hurt. And I think just, you know, trying to give back what I was given by the people that that ended up investing in me just created a whole new life. And I feel like it’s who I truly, always was. I just didn’t know how to be.

00:04:13:17 – 00:04:41:13

Nick McGowan

So one of the biggest things about this podcast is breaking down the in between where you were and where you are now and that how you got there and how you manage your mindset. But coming from the background that you had to helping the people you helped today. How did you manage your mindset and not become one of those people even back, you know, 20 years ago, 25, 30 years ago or whatever that was.

00:04:42:07 – 00:05:04:15

Rich Mollica

It started it started with just 25 years ago just believing that, you know, the people that I was encountering that said they were like me, you know, folks genuine, so honest and not believing the lie that I couldn’t you know, there was a lot of people that I would encounter that were like that would say to people like, oh, you know, young buck, don’t do this, don’t do that.

00:05:04:15 – 00:05:23:07

Rich Mollica

Don’t be like me. While they’re smoking crack or while they’re shooting dope, they’re telling somebody else, Don’t do this. And I was a really seductive lie is, you know, I’m I’m made to be this way. You know, that’s all the messages I got from my family. You know, this is what you’re worth. This is what you can do.

00:05:23:07 – 00:05:55:09

Rich Mollica

This is what you can accomplish. I was laughed at for going to college. I was laughed at for getting a job as a telemarketer. I mean, that sounds crazy, but in my family, if you were a man, you you did construction work, you collected a paycheck, you lived off a woman like those were your options. So I had a day at a time to believe that the things people were telling me could be my life I was going to invest in.

00:05:55:13 – 00:06:22:04

Rich Mollica

And I was going to shut out the noise and the people hating on me that I was going to just for. And I had to make it a small increment because it’s so powerful. It feels so overwhelming coming from the people that you’ve known your whole life, the people you love. I just had to believe that just in this moment I can choose a different path and that can free me to be who I feel in my heart I am.

00:06:22:20 – 00:06:43:22

Nick McGowan

When you feel like that was your story and that’s what you were being told you were meant to be. Almost like it was predestined that you were going to be the way that they were all currently being. And how did you change your story? What did that look like? What was that mental workout like so much?

00:06:44:05 – 00:07:08:10

Rich Mollica

You know, there’s so many different ways I can answer that. The one thing I’ll say is I had to be around people that had different stories. I had to be around people that got to ground different than than I had ever seen. And just I had to to center myself in that if I was too far in the other old world, gravity just takes over.

00:07:08:21 – 00:07:30:14

Rich Mollica

One of the things that’s awesome is I’ve gotten to help a lot of those people, you know, then come out later, you know, it’s like the lobster bucket or the crab bucket, rather, if a crab tries to get out of the bucket, they all pull them down, you know, because they’re afraid, you know, he’s going to be up on top of me if one of us get down, well, then we got a path.

00:07:30:14 – 00:08:01:15

Rich Mollica

Maybe we can all get out together and not get boiled, you know? And I’ve been blessed to be able to help some of those other folks get out now. The other thing is redefining who I am, like taking an inventory of who I am and and redefining it. I was always taught empathy was a weakness. I was taught if you were a man, you were a sociopath and you took advantage of women, you know, you broke their minds so that they needed you.

00:08:02:16 – 00:08:23:18

Rich Mollica

And that’s really what I was taught. And I could never do that. So I was you know, I was weak. I was, you know, insert feminine slurs in here. I wasn’t a man. And I had to look at who I am and in community and by myself, we redefine that to you.

00:08:23:18 – 00:08:34:06

Nick McGowan

So if conversation with the family members that forgive me if this sounds a little harsh but gave you that poison. No.

00:08:34:22 – 00:09:02:03

Rich Mollica

My my father died when I was 18 and my mother died two years ago. She was the only person that I that I allowed in, even though there was poison there, there was also love. There was a complicated relationship. But everybody else I had to moving away from me with love. You know I love you. I don’t hate you.

00:09:02:12 – 00:09:23:04

Rich Mollica

You know, nobody gave me a, you know, an atta boy or a parade for that. But if I stayed in that, even if it didn’t want me at all, which it would have, I would have transferred all that into my family. And I am dedicated to to trying to give my family a different story and story and ground than I had.

00:09:23:13 – 00:09:25:21

Rich Mollica

And that meant distancing from my family of origin.

00:09:26:10 – 00:10:02:12

Nick McGowan

And I think we’ve all heard before, you are the some of the five people you hang around with the most. And that does consist of family. If they are part of that five family, friends, coworkers, whatever that looks like. So for you to go through all of what you went through and be able to say, I can’t have this relationship there or even connect with you anymore, I think there are people that listen to this podcast that feel like they need to make that decision but are afraid to make that decision because it’s the unknown right now.

00:10:02:12 – 00:10:12:05

Nick McGowan

It’s the cat knows what’s going to happen and how they’re going to feel or how I’m going to feel. So what would you suggest for somebody that’s going through that and really does need to make that decision?

00:10:12:11 – 00:10:34:23

Rich Mollica

You’re not helping anybody by is sort of by absorbing their abuse. It’s not helping them either, you know. And I think at different points, I felt like, you know, my love will win the day, my loyalty will win the day. And it was just harming me and not helping them look up any resource you can. You tube is for them.

00:10:34:23 – 00:10:55:01

Rich Mollica

Tik tok is for them on narcissistic relationships and you will start to understand the patterns that you are you’re being grinded apart by. There are two different ways to separate. The one is called Gray Rock, and that’s essentially, you know, choosing where I can meet you. You know, I can talk to you on the phone and that’s it.

00:10:55:19 – 00:11:18:18

Rich Mollica

And if you get out of hand, I’m hanging up the phone or I can see you, but only in a public place and only for a specified amount of time. You know, you set the parameters and then there’s just go and hold and just severing the relationship indefinitely, or at least for right now. And that’s a personal decision.

00:11:18:18 – 00:11:40:09

Rich Mollica

You know, with my mom, I could have justified severing the relationship for some of the things that we went through. But I didn’t want to do that. I saw I saw the value in in maintaining a relationship with her. And the last year of her life was the best we ever had for my extended family. My aunt tried to stab my mother.

00:11:41:01 – 00:12:05:06

Rich Mollica

She set fire to her husband’s house and went to prison. I got a phone call from one of my family members that struggles with mental illness that if I kept making my cousin fat spiritually through my witchcraft, they were going to kill me. And Nick, I know it must seem like an obvious decision, but I still labored in hope.

00:12:05:21 – 00:12:28:12

Rich Mollica

But it was just too crazy and too chaotic, you know? I just. I remembered it, and I saw it in the life of my daughter, you know, as a potential future for her. I remember being a kid, like, trying to figure out, you know, why and such and such was saying this or thinking that. And I just I won’t allow it.

00:12:28:12 – 00:12:51:02

Rich Mollica

It can’t I can’t transmit that pain. It’s not helping my extended family. It’s only hurting my current self and family. So for anybody struggling with that, I would just weigh it out with counsel, with support people, and please do your research, look up narcissistic relationships. It will equip you to understand this system.

00:12:51:20 – 00:12:56:12

Nick McGowan

There’s some signs or things that you can point out that people will be mindful of.

00:12:57:02 – 00:13:21:07

Rich Mollica

Sure. I think gaslighting is kind of entered into the common vocabulary, but when people say things, do things, and I just thought, what are you talking about, honey? You know, you just got to get a thicker skin. I don’t even I didn’t even know if that’s a pattern. You know, that’s one thing to look at. Love bombing, you know, it starts off with adoration and affirmation and, oh, you know, romantic relationship.

00:13:21:07 – 00:13:52:07

Rich Mollica

Oh, baby girl, you know, we had a good thing whatever happened, you know? And then you go right back. It doesn’t take long. And they become stingy with affirmation and heavy on criticisms. And they set themselves up as the only person that can give you value. And if you look at it on paper, it’s insane. I’ve seen women that were making all the money in the household that we’re handling everything, but they felt like they and this was my my mother and father.

00:13:52:07 – 00:14:12:15

Rich Mollica

The women felt like they were being given a favor for paying for everything, for doing all the work and absorbing all the abuse. You know, he condescended to keep me around. I remember saying to my father, I think I woke up a month later. He would always talk about spending money on me and on my mother and how we’re freeloaders.

00:14:13:17 – 00:14:39:00

Rich Mollica

And we were all on welfare. So I said to him, Dad, I get a paycheck too, just like you. You know, I want my check. And I woke up and it was two years later, but like separating yourself from it for a minute, analyzing what’s actually happening and having, you know, there’s always trying to cut you off from resources or outside people that will help you and your perceptions.

00:14:39:18 – 00:14:55:23

Rich Mollica

You got to fight that. You got to connect to people that you can actually trust their mirror a little bit, whether that’s a therapist or pastor or person in a 12 step group, you need to get out of the box so that you can see it a little bit more clearly.

00:14:56:13 – 00:15:14:22

Nick McGowan

It takes people being aware of what’s going on, what’s actually happening, and it can be so easy for us. And I think everybody’s done this. They’ve been in some sort of relationship where they’ve allowed things to just be how it is, and then they get out of the relationship and think, What? What was wrong with me? What was I thinking?

00:15:14:22 – 00:15:33:05

Nick McGowan

Why did I allow this or why did I allow that? Why did they allow this or why did they allow that? You know, you work with people different times that deal with narcissists. Do you also work with the people that are the narcissists? Because I would imagine that it’s slightly different of how they have to go about fixing their problems.

00:15:33:14 – 00:15:58:14

Rich Mollica

One thing just to say to the previous question, once you realize that it’s a game and it’s a formula and that it follows a similar pattern, it blows your mind because you always think it’s about me and then realizing it’s not about me. This is all about control and it’s a playbook in my working with narcissists. I’ll be honest with you, I have not seen great results.

00:15:58:22 – 00:16:31:01

Rich Mollica

It’s very hard to navigate a narcissistic relationship in any way that creates systemic change. It can be done. But if you look at Dr. Ramani is on YouTube, she’s very cold and factual about the likelihood of that happening. In particular, if it’s a malignant, you know, physically abusive, vindictive narcissist, they’re kind of levels, you know, if you’re married to a Hollywood actor, they’ll probably somewhere on that spectrum.

00:16:31:19 – 00:16:45:16

Rich Mollica

But you might be able to to live with that level of narcissism when you get into kind of what I’m talking about, where it’s it’s more volatile. I mean, a lot of times it’s just damage control. Honestly.

00:16:46:08 – 00:17:11:21

Nick McGowan

What you’re talking about is vastly different financially than somebody from Hollywood who is a narcissist and constantly has a camera on them. That’s got to be tough to be in the limelight and have all of that. That’s a whole different story. I think really what we’re talking about are the people that are either poor or middle class or it could be rich people.

00:17:11:21 – 00:17:35:03

Nick McGowan

It’s poor minded, you know, the the negative mindset and that fixed mindset of not being able to grow, not being able to get out. So everybody else should drown with me. And like you said, the crab being able to pull them back down. And for that one narcissist that’s listening to this show, you can go away. Now for the others that may think you’re a narcissist, you’re not.

00:17:35:03 – 00:17:52:20

Nick McGowan

You’re just a jerk at times. And I’m right there with you. I get that. So how do you, rich, help the people that are on that path to be able to get out of that, whether they be in their teens or in their fifties, sixties? How do you work with those people?

00:17:53:18 – 00:18:26:03

Rich Mollica

The first thing is just nonjudgmental rapport. I’m not going to judge you, you know, and I, I used to early in my counseling days try to save people from these relationships. And that’s a disaster. I just let them know I’m here, let them know they have options, mirror back to them. You know what I see in them? A value try to build, you know, a different mirror of yourself, you know, look at what you accomplished, look at what you survived, those kind of things.

00:18:27:01 – 00:18:52:21

Rich Mollica

You’re handling only a household and three children. And he hasn’t worked in ten years. That’s amazing. You know, so those kind of offering resources, just trying to build outside connection without threatening it, because if you threaten it, it just hurtles up. When the narcissist or the abuser feels threatened and the person’s not ready yet to jump, then you just get cut out.

00:18:53:08 – 00:18:58:11

Rich Mollica

And that happened to me 20 times before I realized this isn’t the way to navigate this.

00:18:59:07 – 00:19:07:04

Nick McGowan

So how did you get through that or just was it a matter of numbers game or the 20th time you slapped yourself in the face and went got it. Yeah.

00:19:07:09 – 00:19:33:02

Rich Mollica

Just seeing it and then trying to just be the, the connection can know like if you’re with them forever. I love you. I’m here with you, support you, whatever you decide, giving them autonomy which they have anyway, you know, but affirming it. I had a woman who was being severely beaten and almost killed while pregnant, and this happened to her multiple times.

00:19:34:02 – 00:20:01:04

Rich Mollica

She got out once I helped her get out and she ended up, you know, after she had the child going back because all my baby did have a father and he’s talking different. And then a year later, the abuse got worse. It always escalates. And she came back because this was a safe relationship for her. She knew I wasn’t trying to control her, you know, I wasn’t trying to shame her or take advantage of her in any way.

00:20:01:23 – 00:20:15:00

Rich Mollica

And now I’m extremely proud that, you know, she’s a single mom. Raising her son is going back to college, has a great job. But it’s it’s just not checkers for sure.

00:20:15:00 – 00:20:29:21

Nick McGowan

You’ve gone through a lot of stuff and you’ve helped a lot of people through a lot of things as well. Are there any major points in life or situations that you can look back at and say, Well, that was a moment in time that changed me?

00:20:31:09 – 00:21:03:00

Rich Mollica

Yeah, I can think of several. When I was my first, I was sober for about a year and my mother was in one hospital psychotic, tied to a bed. My grandmother fell and her feet were touching her back. When she fell, she was in Taylor Hospital. I was going back and forth from both and I got fired from my telemarketing job because I was missing too much time.

00:21:03:00 – 00:21:29:22

Rich Mollica

And that voice of, you know, you you’re an idiot for thinking that you could do different go back. What are you schmuck like? What do you do on this floor? Were screaming and I leaned into prayer. I leaned into my supports and in our crises, in our various obstacles or opportunities. And my mother and grandmother started to talk again.

00:21:29:22 – 00:21:54:03

Rich Mollica

They hadn’t spoken since my dad died. I got them both back and I ended up getting a job at a rehab. I didn’t think I was good enough to do that work, but a friend said, I just give it a shot. You have enough clean time. And that became the next 23 years of my life. If I never hit that horrid time, you know, I never would have broken through Buddhist call it radical acceptance.

00:21:54:20 – 00:22:27:13

Rich Mollica

You know, Christians call it carrying a cross, just looking at the obstacle as the way and just taking it a minute, an hour, a day at a time. You get blessings. I got blessings that I never would have found in in the status quo. I never would have found in just lazy days. They were my best winemakers when I was at the rehab for two years, lost five kids to overdose car accidents and suicide.

00:22:27:23 – 00:22:52:15

Rich Mollica

And I didn’t know how to cope with that. I loved the kids I worked with. I looked at them as as my family at the time. I very much, you know, counselors as they were identified. I love them. And I lost five of them and then they closed down our unit. So it wasn’t even a can I can double press now.

00:22:52:15 – 00:23:16:14

Rich Mollica

I can I can take this energy out on helping the next kid. And the same thing that, you know, I just had to press into my supports, press into prayer, press into positivity. And that ended up creating a resilience in me and a passion in me that’s sustainable, that could have destroyed me. And I think it could destroy anybody.

00:23:16:20 – 00:23:26:00

Rich Mollica

The only reason it didn’t is because I. I pressed into the things that transform suffering into meaning.

00:23:27:05 – 00:23:34:18

Nick McGowan

And then you get to that in that tough time to be able to understand that I got a press into this.

00:23:35:00 – 00:23:56:16

Rich Mollica

I think it helps a lot when it’s survival. You know, a lot of people talk about and I’m thinking to like Coral Young and Marcus Aurelius talk about living in your purpose. And anything other than that is a death is a you know, is a negative thing. I knew this is what you know. And I put it in terms of God, I knew this is what God called me to.

00:23:56:21 – 00:24:13:18

Rich Mollica

And if I retreated from it, I don’t know where I would have landed. You know, I think it could have gotten, you know, really toxic. And I know the things that help me survive. So it’s it’s kind of like, you know, are you going to try to swim or are you going to let the enemy army kill you?

00:24:14:11 – 00:24:37:09

Rich Mollica

You know, I guess I’ll try to swim, you know, and and it’s never failed me. It’s always brought me to an even though I don’t like it, I don’t like what happens when I lose people. I’m angry at reality, but that is how I know how to negotiate life on its own terms. Avoiding it, you know, being resentful that it doesn’t do anything but still me from my purpose.

00:24:38:06 – 00:24:45:17

Nick McGowan

Is that the thing that you hold on to when that stuff happens? Now you can lean back on too and go, Oh, I’m good, just keep pressing on.

00:24:46:08 – 00:25:15:11

Rich Mollica

Yeah. And it’s not it’s not like pressing on in the like the John Wayne sense of like, I’m just gonna pull my bootstraps up and walk into the village. It’s, it really is like opening myself up my genuine vulnerability, my genuine pain to, you know, a trusted community and to the God I learned to trust. And looking at it in reality, I procrastinate for three days.

00:25:15:11 – 00:25:30:08

Rich Mollica

I’ll watch Netflix, I’ll eat too much pizza, and then three days and I’m like, all right, you know, are we going to we’re going to do this for the next 40 years or are we going to start doing what gives us life and what’s going to get us.

00:25:30:18 – 00:25:52:23

Nick McGowan

There to be aware of that, it can easily turn in from three days to three months, and I think we’ve all been there in some way, shape, no pun intended and or form. We’ve all been in different spots like that. It’s asking ourselves that question and actually having the balls to be able to say, Hold up, it’s been 72 hours.

00:25:53:04 – 00:26:08:07

Nick McGowan

I’m putting a lot of crap in my system. Am I going to stop now or am I going to keep doing this? And man, I would not want to be in that spot where we go. I’m going to keep doing this and just continue to make bad decisions. Yet we’ve all been there and we’ve all continued to do that sort of stuff.

00:26:08:20 – 00:26:18:15

Nick McGowan

So when that sort of stuff creeps up now, or even with the people you’re working with, what sort of tips or takeaways do you give them to be able to help in those moments?

00:26:19:09 – 00:26:46:10

Rich Mollica

There’s a movement called Personal Medicine. Pat Deegan started it. She was schizophrenic and is diagnosed schizophrenic, and she was told, you’ll never get a doctorate. And she said, Well, I’ll prove you wrong. Got a doctorate and created a worldwide system of personal medicine for people who struggle with depression, anxiety, psychosis, you know, get your tool belt, make your list of personal medicine, what gives me life?

00:26:47:09 – 00:27:15:05

Rich Mollica

And you got to train in the off season. So you got it. You got to do it habitually so that it it builds a circuit in your brain so that, you know, when you’re punched, you know, if your first reaction is to drop your hands and say, please don’t hit me, then you get hurt, you know? But if you train something else in, then that’s what comes out, you know, put your hands up.

00:27:15:11 – 00:27:38:00

Rich Mollica

So for me, it’s that instead of I’m going to numb this, it’s I’m going to call somebody instead of I’m going to isolate. It’s I got to be in the sunlight, even though I feel like a vampire right now, you know, it’s just giving myself over to the things, you know, the kind of music I listen to. There’s times for Johnny Cash, and, boy, there’s times Johnny and not working for me.

00:27:38:21 – 00:28:05:06

Rich Mollica

You know, we need some Stevie Wonder. Get it. Get the positivity up a little bit. Now, another another thing I’ll recommend for you and for any of your listeners. There’s a book called The War of Art. It’s by the guy who wrote Bagger Vance, and he talks about when we avoid our calling, our purpose, the negative things that come and emanate from that, you know.

00:28:05:06 – 00:28:26:07

Rich Mollica

So remember, what is my life’s mission? To be gentle with myself? I’m not trying to be special forces, but what gives me purpose and how do I organize my life so that it has that, you know, for me, I can rattle it off. Know your mission statement? I’m here to serve my family. I’m here to serve my community.

00:28:26:17 – 00:28:54:02

Rich Mollica

I’m here to serve the people that nobody cares about. That’s personal to me and my faith. I’m here to show everyone God’s love and faithfulness, family, community, people who think nobody cares. You just call it a songer, you know, 12 step groups call it your support network, find your little community and make concentric circles. These are the three people that are in, you know, you might have to, you know, take a while to build them.

00:28:54:18 – 00:29:21:12

Rich Mollica

These are the people, ten people that are next circle out. These are the people I just trust. And generally and then everybody else, if you had someone you didn’t trust with your child, you would not leave your child around. But we trust people with our hearts. All the time that we don’t trust. So ordering our supports and our lives around healthy relationships, it’s transformative.

00:29:21:12 – 00:29:35:03

Rich Mollica

It minimizes wounding. It’s hard enough and it maximizes the positive influence in our lives so that we can become who we want to be and live in the relationships we want to be in.

00:29:35:13 – 00:29:48:02

Nick McGowan

To for the people that are going through wondering, is this person or this situation worth it for me to stick around or for me to allow them to stick around? What do you suggest for them?

00:29:48:20 – 00:30:19:07

Rich Mollica

One question I always ask is if this was your niece, your cousin, your best friend, and they called you up and they said he beat me three times, he’s not allowing me to have my own debit card. He controls the money and he cheated twice. What would you say to them? You know, get outside of it and look at somebody you value, because usually we don’t value ourselves the same.

00:30:19:07 – 00:30:44:00

Rich Mollica

What would you say to that person now? You might not be ready to change today. I ain’t mad at you for that. But know what you know. Don’t manipulate your own thinking. You know, if you wouldn’t want it for Kimmie, then why is it okay for you? Why are you okay to be abused so that’s one question I’ll ask just to kind of to change the person’s perception a bit.

00:30:44:21 – 00:31:08:06

Rich Mollica

You know, I will always say if you choose this, you’re allowed to choose this. But what if it never changes? What if this is what it is? What if you’re signing up for this continually or you will care with that? If you are, that’s fine. Oh, no, I won’t. You know, he has to. He has to stop cheating or she has to, you know, stop stealing my mom’s pills or whatever it is.

00:31:08:06 – 00:31:20:23

Rich Mollica

You know, this has to change. Is there any reason to think it’s going to how long has this been the pattern? You know, if you’re going to sign up for it, that’s fine. I got your back. But I think you have to expect that this is what it is.

00:31:21:06 – 00:31:38:18

Nick McGowan

That’s some good stuff right there. Out of out of all the stuff that you hear and all of the topics and situations that people are going through. What have you been seeing that has kind of been a pattern since the pandemic?

00:31:38:18 – 00:32:10:04

Rich Mollica

I see a few addictions went bananas after the pandemic, mental health issues. I mean, we just know we’re social creatures now. Babies that are abused do better than babies that are isolated and have their needs met. But aren’t connected to anyone. So you saw mental health go up. You saw addiction go up. I really worry. I see a lot of people making money online and I’m not mad at that.

00:32:10:19 – 00:32:42:19

Rich Mollica

But like the only fan stuff and with my background in human trafficking, I’m not talking about the person that’s deciding to make money on their own. Now, I’m not demonizing that or shaming that. I just know there are people behind the cameras often that are not choosing this on their own. They’re doing it for drug money. They’re doing it because they’re being threatened that you know, now that the moratorium on evictions is up, you know, they have a landlord or somebody letting them crash.

00:32:42:22 – 00:33:11:19

Rich Mollica

They’re saying, you know, take off your clothes and you can stay here. That’s all human trafficking. Any time there’s a financial issue or there is a social upheaval that leaves some people hurt and there’s somebody there to monetize that. And that definitely happened here. It happened with human trafficking. It happened with drug addiction. It just helped people gain more control and have more avenues to profit off people suffering.

00:33:12:10 – 00:33:37:12

Rich Mollica

And with the people that I work with, well, you know, getting people into rehab is one thing, but trying to get people into trauma informed or trauma specific programs, because a lot of times it’s so much more complicated if if you’ve been trafficked or if as a child, you were sexually abused, you know, it just affects your recovery.

00:33:37:19 – 00:34:08:17

Rich Mollica

You know, I try to get people into both of those systems, but they’re separate systems usually, especially if you don’t have good insurance or the ability to private pay. You know, that stuff doesn’t get touched. Just the story on that. I had a woman who went into her drug and alcohol counselor. She had Medicaid and she was African-American and she had a flashback immediately prior to going to this woman of her father molesting her.

00:34:08:22 – 00:34:44:09

Rich Mollica

And it was visceral, you know, it was tactile feelings. And she went into this woman absolutely. Just heighten fight or flight response, you know, unable to be comfortable in our own skin. And the woman said, listen, we’re going to put that in the box. I need to do paperwork. That’s the difference between somebody that has Medicaid or county funding for their treatment stay and somebody that’s able to go to Betty Ford Clinic where they would have appropriately helped her de-escalate.

00:34:44:09 – 00:35:05:23

Rich Mollica

They process the trauma. So a lot of what I’m trying to do, especially post the pandemic, is is try to piecemeal what people need but don’t have the resources for them. Thankfully, there are different groups. I can almost do that with, but it’s it’s a challenge.

00:35:06:12 – 00:35:29:18

Nick McGowan

I wish we could figure out the one thing that could just solve all, you know, just make it all go away. But you and I both know that that’s actually not going to solve the problem. It would immediately fix some of that surface pain. But it’s not going to actually fix the problem. What’s the thing, though, that could fix the problem?

00:35:30:02 – 00:35:38:16

Nick McGowan

And I know that it’s people and it’s the people, but what’s the main thing that you think is kind of a lesson for us to take from this whole debacle that’s happened?

00:35:39:20 – 00:36:06:23

Rich Mollica

Treatment needs to do the things that we know work, even if it’s expensive and even if it cuts into a profit margin. And that’s hard and nobody really wants do that. So in lieu of that, we have to be very grass roots and people that have suffered in these ways are coming out and saying, I was I’m I was molested.

00:36:07:17 – 00:36:40:01

Rich Mollica

When I make that statement, because I am a survivor of child molestation, it has it has an impact on people, especially men, you know, because we tend not to share that. So being able to share that experience strength and hope through grassroots opportunities, you know, creating groups where men, women, survivors in general, trans community can come together and process this ourselves.

00:36:40:01 – 00:37:08:00

Rich Mollica

Being willing to share resources online that aren’t monetized or that aren’t monetized by the person we’re helping so that we can just get it and use it. I love what you’re doing because you’re trying to help men learn how to be resilient without being false, how to actually, you know, be empowered and know their power without the facade and the mask.

00:37:08:08 – 00:37:37:01

Rich Mollica

And I think that’s a lot of just as a culture, what men need to heal. It’s not about being a tough guy. It’s not you know, I was I told you I was raised to be a sociopath. That was a man. You know, it’s about dropping the masks, sharing the vulnerability, and realizing there’s more strength in that and sharing vulnerability, other men, so that we can all heal collectively and share in each other’s strength, then running from it and acting like a tough guy.

00:37:37:14 – 00:38:04:15

Nick McGowan

I appreciate that. I appreciate the thought and the encouragement with it. And I think you’re absolutely right that there are things that we all men, women doesn’t matter race, color, gender, any of it. We all wear masks at times. And I truly believe it’s about being authentic. I you know, I often say to people that I work with, look, you have an open door.

00:38:04:17 – 00:38:23:06

Nick McGowan

I have an open door. And all of this is open for us to talk about. But if you’re just complaining over and over, I’m going to call you out on it. But if you’re venting, you’re getting through things, then great, because sometimes you need that. You need to go through it, talk through it, and then be able to move move on from there.

00:38:23:13 – 00:38:47:04

Nick McGowan

Again, men and women need to be able to have those conversations and need to be able to hear that things are okay. I think we also all need to understand that we’re not unique. You’re not special. This stuff happens. Some people may hear your story and go, That’s nothing. Other people might hear your story and just cry and think, How are you even alive anymore?

00:38:48:07 – 00:39:06:15

Nick McGowan

All us work through our own things, our own ways. So the people that are on that path, that are working toward a path to self-mastery, what suggestions would you give them to be mindful of their mindset? And what’s the thing that you would suggest that they take on that path with the.

00:39:07:07 – 00:39:34:18

Rich Mollica

Victim mentality is something that can keep somebody in a really bad spot with their legitimate pain. But it denies part of the truth that you’re stronger, that you’re able to achieve healing, that you’re able to achieve mastery, as you put it. So be very, very aware when, you know, I remember thinking, you know, I didn’t get the good clothes.

00:39:34:18 – 00:39:53:17

Rich Mollica

I didn’t get the perfect parents. I, I didn’t get the rule book for how to live. And it’s fine agree to that, but it’s not okay to make it into well, this is why I can’t, you know, this is why I can’t succeed. This is why I can’t have a good relationship. This is why I drink or whatever else.

00:39:54:06 – 00:40:16:20

Rich Mollica

Then you’re just allowing yourself to be victimized more. You’re allowing something that happened in the past to steal your present. And I think a thing to really solidify in your own being is I’ll be damned if I’m going to let them. You know, people that are out of my life now, people that are dead steal my present life.

00:40:17:00 – 00:40:48:08

Rich Mollica

It ain’t going to happen. So I can grieve it. I can process it, but it can’t. It can’t steal my present because I lost enough. Now I refuse. And it’s like Gandalf, you know, you shall not pass, you know, like out claiming my my life now and focusing on what you can do. You know, a lot of times working with somebody with an addiction in particular, you know, somebody will say, I want to do anything to change my life.

00:40:49:04 – 00:41:15:07

Rich Mollica

Well, why don’t we get you into treatment? Well, not that anything but that. Why don’t we go to 12, certainly? Well, not that, but anything else. All right. Why don’t we get you an outpatient? I know. Not that. Focus on what opportunities you have, what options you have today. And don’t. Don’t push them till tomorrow because it’ll never happen.

00:41:16:10 – 00:41:54:15

Rich Mollica

This is the only day you have to live it. So whatever options you have, you know, choose which one you want. But if you don’t, you’re choosing what you’ve had. And if you’re tired of it like I was tired of mine, choose something else. If, you know, try whatever it is, go to treatment, get a counselor, you know, go to the meeting, you know, read the inspirational literature, put my applications out online, see if I get a point, do something today that will potentially change your position.

00:41:54:15 – 00:42:25:02

Rich Mollica

If you’re not happy with it, they’ll be resistant to that. You’ll feel anxiety about that. You’ll try to avoid it. And every which way you can to push past that, send out the resume, you know, make the phone call. You know, if we seize the moment now to do that thing, because that can change your entire trajectory. You know, those are some things, other things that I’ll say, be mindful of your self-talk.

00:42:25:02 – 00:42:48:11

Rich Mollica

Write it down. You know, it’s like walking through a supermarket. You don’t hear the music. You know, you’re just in your own fog. Be aware of the messages you’re telling yourself and then change them. You know, if your internal messages are stupid, why did you shoot it? Why did you do that? Or if your own internal messages are like, you know, who do you think you are?

00:42:48:23 – 00:43:18:02

Rich Mollica

You know, who do you think you are? Even trying that stay in your lane, write it down, become aware of it, and then you can change the soundtrack. You know, most of those come from kids that were mean to us family members that purposefully or unintentionally gave us negative, poisonous thought processes, become aware of them and then switch it up, you know, instead of Why am I so stupid?

00:43:19:01 – 00:43:40:09

Rich Mollica

You know, I tried. It didn’t work. Here’s how I can modify. I gave myself a role. I can look stupid doing something ten times, you know, the first ten times. It’s okay for me to look like an absolute ridiculous human being. And by time 11, I guarantee you I’m going to have I’m going to have a grip on it.

00:43:40:09 – 00:44:05:16

Rich Mollica

I’m going to be able to do it better now. So not getting into the mindset of perfectionism or fear of failure, you know, accepting failure is part of the learning process and not making myself bad for it. Michael Jordan didn’t get picked. You know, another guy got picked over him and he didn’t make it into well, I guess I just don’t have what it takes.

00:44:06:10 – 00:44:35:20

Rich Mollica

You know, he made it into a I’m going to hold my craft until I’m better than anybody else. I’ll never get I’ll never be on the on the second line again ever, you know. So those are some things to put in the place looking for distorted thoughts. Find people that you’re close enough to to say, hey, you know, I thought you were mad at me yesterday or, Hey, I thought you were bored.

00:44:36:02 – 00:45:07:03

Rich Mollica

I feel like I’m boring you and I. I have been trying to see if my projections on other people were accurate. I found out I was 100% wrong 100% of the time I was seeing in other people what I felt about myself. So that’s another thing with safe people that you can do to change your perceptions of reality, your cognitive distortions.

00:45:08:09 – 00:45:32:16

Nick McGowan

That’s basically an episode in and of itself when you hear all of what you just dropped on us there. So thank you for that. And on that note, it has been an absolute pleasure to have you with us today. Thank you for being here, man. I’m so thankful that you’ve been on the show. Where can people find you and share your details?

00:45:32:16 – 00:46:03:05

Rich Mollica

Sure. I’m at Saint John’s United Church of Christ, eastern Pennsylvania. You can find me on Tik-Tok, Facebook or LinkedIn Arts, Rich or Richard Mollica. You know, feel free to reach out and throw this out there. If anybody is is ever in a situation where you need resources, contact me on those and I will get back to you as soon as possible or you can even reach me at my cell phone.

00:46:03:05 – 00:46:05:11

Rich Mollica

6108099641.

00:46:06:17 – 00:46:24:07

Nick McGowan

Man, I appreciate your heart and I appreciate you care enough to be able to share your information, even your personal cell phone. I can edit that out if you want me to. If not, I’m also going to leave this in here so people can hear that you actually care to the point to just give out your cell phone.

00:46:24:15 – 00:46:25:06

Rich Mollica

Totally to.

00:46:25:13 – 00:46:38:16

Nick McGowan

People that hear this, don’t abuse that and understand that Rich has an incredibly huge heart and will actually do everything he can to be able to help you. So, again, Rich, it’s been a pleasure to have you. I appreciate you being with us today and I look forward to speaking with you again soon.

00:46:39:00 – 00:46:49:12

Rich Mollica

Love and respect your brother. Thanks for having me.

00:46:49:12 – 00:47:09:07

Nick McGowan

Another great conversation on today’s episode of The Mindset and Self-mastery show, which is a living example of what it looks like to lead with your heart and truly serve others, even when they may not deserve it at all. Everyone is hurt in some ways, and Rich has made it his mission to help those in need. What did you think about today’s episode?

00:47:09:07 – 00:47:27:05

Nick McGowan

I’d love to hear your thoughts on the conversation and there’s deep topics we got into. If you enjoyed the episode, please jump over to iTunes. Subscribe Rate and leave a five star review. It was really help other people hear what we’re doing and help them as well. And if you really enjoyed the show today, go ahead and share it with your friends.

00:47:27:12 – 00:47:47:15

Nick McGowan

You can check out the show notes for more info, contact info for Rich and check out other episodes in The Mindset and Self-mastery show e-comm as well as our YouTube channel. Just go to YouTube and search the mindset and self-mastery show, you’ll find us. Thank you again, Rich, for being on the show, for being honest, for being real and for being real with us.

00:47:47:15 – 00:48:03:03

Nick McGowan

And thank you to you for taking the journey with us today. And with that, remember, your mindset matters and so do you.