By Sophie Wade
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The podcast currently has 132 episodes available.
Stephan Meier is Professor of Business Strategy at Columbia Business School and author of The Employee Advantage: How Putting Workers First Helps Business Thrive. Stephan describes how behavioral economics examine social dynamics and decision-making. He describes the importance of intrinsic motivation and fairness at work and the effect on behavior of monetary and non-monetary incentives. Stephan explains how fast-evolving business conditions require trusting leadership and empowered employees. He shares insights about flexibility and relatedness as key motivators which affect hybrid/remote working models.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:27] Stephan was fascinated by history but studied economics to understand the world better.
[03:19] Traditional economic models, though predictive, lack alignment with human behavior.
[04:09] Stephan explores behavioral economics to study non-rational behaviors and model deviations.
[06:03] For his PhD, Stephan researches intrinsic motivations and non-selfish human interactions.
[08:08] Early management models assumed people are lazy therefore control and incentives were essential.
[09:01] Lack of training to support employee-centric versus control, incentive mechanisms.
[11:06] Stephan’s thesis emphasizes intrinsic motivations and the joy achieved by helping others.
[12:01] Fairness and social norms are important to foster collaboration and group motivation.
[13:00] How monetary incentives can undermine social relationships.
[14:21] The dynamics of social and intrinsic motivation compared with financial motivation.
[17:13] Stephan’s Federal Reserve work focused on behavioral economics and improving financial decision-making.
[19:31] How people revert to status quo choices when tired and lacking nourishment.
[22:00] Money affects work-related decisions for people who are distracted by financial stressors.
[23:33] How behavioral science and economic rational competition determine our behaviors which need to be balanced.
[24:50] We overestimate our own decision-making abilities, not conscious of influential factors.
[25:35] How managers, as humans, are affected by layoffs and unemployment benefits.
[28:32] Thinking about employees like customers and improving their experiences.
[29:11] Competition and transparency are two key reasons for the new employee emphasis.
[30:27] A third reason is having more data and tools to personalize work experiences.
[32:35] Employee centricity: fixing pain points and finding moments that matter along the Employee Journey.
[33:21] The need for constant feedback and innovation to improve employees’ experiences.
[35:07] What really motivates people and using technology to enhance not destroy this.
[35:52] At the current pace of change, the importance of trusting relationships and autonomy.
[36:35] Especially in AI-integrated, flatter companies, we need to empower employees.
[37:20] Upskilling employees by matching them with opportunities just as Netflix matches viewers with their preferences.
[40:00] Flexibility and relatedness are important motivators to consider when optimizing hybrid and remote work models
[40:16] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: To achieve a more employee centric approach, tap into two motivators: flexibility, giving people autonomy about how, when, where to work; and relatedness having social interactions which include in person.
[41:45] Leaders need to embrace behavioral insights to adapt for new working environments.
[43:16] Being intentional about workplace culture and coordinating office-based working.
[45:30] Treating employees well is a win-win.
[46:30] We must understand what motivates employees and use technology to enhance these motivators.
RESOURCES
Stephan Meier on LinkedIn
Stephan’s website
Stephan’s book “The Employee Advantage: How Putting Workers First Helps Business Thrive”
QUOTES
“If we think people are lazy and we want to control, technology gives us the amazing tools to control to the level that we never could before. But that will be exactly destroying everything about the trusting relationship.”
"If you integrate more AI, normally the hierarchies become flatter. Now you actually need teams who work more autonomously. You empower them and it's a very different way of managing because you now have to trust them as well.”
“The same trends that led to customer centricity lead to employees centricity. We actually have a lot of tools about customers that we can now apply to employees. We can figure out what are the pain points, what are the moments that matter or whatever you want to call those for our employees to actually delight them.”
“We do have to empower employees more. Top down works really well when it's relatively stable and not changing in working when it's moving fast, you have to change.”
“Most leaders are not trained in understanding what motivates people beyond monetary control mechanisms.”
Heather E. McGowan is a keynote speaker and author of The Empathy Advantage and The Adaptation Advantage with deep experience in the Future of Work field. She describes the importance of empathy with AI's growing influence and fostering a connected, resilient, and adaptable workforce. Heather discusses how AI can transform cognitive work and why leaders must shift from relying on their own expertise to harnessing collective intelligence. She explains how the promise and tacit agreement of work has changed, leading to younger generations’ focus on mission, impact, and mentorship.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:35] Interested in human behavior and art, Heather goes to RISD to study industrial design.
[04:00] Heather learns to ask the right question – is the process, not the product, that matters.
[04:54] Observing people helps Heather identify unarticulated needs, as seen with the Swiffer.
[06:21] Heather designs various products then does an MBA to bridge design and business.
[07:36] Her mentor’s influence directs her towards ESG-focused private equity work.
[09:49] Integrating design and business, Heather works in academia for several years.
[10:50] Heather starts defining how work is changing for her academic and corporate clients as the Future of Work emerges.
[12:24] Challenging the concept of having to take single discipline courses before collaborative studies.
[13:00] The importance of having a common mindset around problem solving.
[13:31] Using basic systems thinking to understand the impact of solutions.
[14:33] Interesting reactions to mixed-year participation in courses.
[15:25] How people responded to integrated design-thinking projects.
[16:15] Heather gets delayed positive feedback to their innovative approach.
[16:39] Insights from Heather’s experiences in education such as getting people to think propositionally.
[17:00] The genesis of the Adaptation Advantage book.
[17:45] The impact of set occupational identity and the rigid 'education-career-retire' model.
[18:26] Lifelong learning with learning and careers overlapping not sequential stages.
[18:55] Retirement is not good for us, now that life expectancy has increased.
[19:30] The AARP starts to focus on people’s ‘next’ or ‘encore’ chapter rather than ‘retirement’.
[20:46] Heather’s research and writing focuses on Future of Work tacit vs explicit knowledge.
[21:17] Explicit knowledge can be automated, while tacit knowledge needs human interaction.
[22:15] AI as a “third lens” for understanding human cognition and expanding our capabilities.
[23:39] Heather warns that over-reliance on automation risks atrophying our skills.
[24:59] The benefit of enhancing cognitive capabilities, not just reducing costs.
[26:16] The long broken agreement about work between employers and employees.
[27:38] Gen Z seeks mission, meaningful work, and mentorship since there is no job security.
[28:04] Empathy is necessary to connect with employees and understand their mentoring needs.
[28:55] Leaders must not rely on individual intelligence but shift to collective intelligence.
[30:34] Heather predicts AI will disrupt cognitive work much like electrification disrupted labor.
[31:28] Heather connects rising polarization with declines in socialization and greater loneliness.
[32:08] How our brains are shaped for agitation because of our solitude.
[33:00] Workplaces serving as essential social trust-building spaces.
[34:32] Leaders must build trust through authenticity, logic, and empathy.
[35:30] The compelling letter Airbnb’s CEO wrote to employees being laid off.
[37:36] Being transparent about the challenges of fast-changing circumstances.
[38:16] Human-centered policies which optimize for thriving employees improve retention and financial performance.
[40:45] When leaders reach a very senior level in organizations their empathy decreases.
[42:47] Heather encourages reweaving the social fabric to foster collaborative exploration.
[44:16] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Talk with coworkers about shared values. Ask how they're doing, if they're getting enough sleep, if they're working on a project that is meaningful to them. Share experiences where you've been able to bounce forward, not back. Your job is to help your team adapt to change and become the next best version of themselves.
RESOURCES
Heather McGowan on LinkedIn
Heather’s website
Leading the Day After article
Sven Hansen and the Reliance Institute
Letter from Brian Chesky, CEO of Airbnb, to employees
Frances Frei, HBS Professor
QUOTES
“We need to start taking longer strides and putting greater visions out there and say it's going to be hard, but it's going to be worth it."
"Trust comes down to three things. Authenticity, logic, and empathy. So authenticity is do people experience the real you? Do they feel like you're giving them the honest approach when you're delivering things to you, or are you putting on a Persona? Logic is, do you have a sound theory of what you're asking people to do? Ability to communicate, a division of where the organization is trying to go? And then do you demonstrate that you care what that work means to the individual?"
“Now, most leaders are leading teams of people who have skills and knowledge they do not have at least some of them, and it may not even be within their group. So you can't lead with Individual intelligence, you have to lead with collective intelligence. You cannot get collective intelligence without empathy. So that's the first piece of how we need to lead differently.”
“If we only use technology to replace what humans currently do, it's a race to the bottom. If we only let humans get lazy by using ChatGPT, we will lose. What we need to do is ‘Where is the ability to enhance? Where can I become better? Where can I make my organizational capacity stronger, greater, more resilient?”
“The promise and the agreement on work, the tacit agreement we've had for work has changed. It really became the last promise for the Boomers was ‘I trade my loyalty to an organization for the security of employment’. That promise has been broken for many decades, But the organizations that are still expecting that loyalty, that be it not providing that promise of security, have to realize they have to provide something else.”
“I think what Gen Z is pushing for, which I think a lot of folks are on board with, is instead, I know I'm not going to get security. So I want three things. I want mission. I want to be part an organization that's trying to do something big and hard and meaningful. I want to be part of something bigger than myself essentially. I want meaningful work.”
Luis Velasquez Ph.D. is the author of Ordinary Resilience, an executive leadership coach, and former research scientist. He describes his journey after a brain tumor forced him to leave academia and reinvent himself, using endurance sports goals during recovery. Luis explains how resilience means defining who you are, accepting your circumstances, and adapting to change, not toughness. He emphasizes intentional reframing, focusing on what you can control, and building relationships to foster social resilience and weather challenges. Luis shares insights and mental models for leaders managing teams as we navigate change at work and beyond.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:27] Instead of becoming a farmer, Luis loves science and does a Ph.D. in molecular biology.
[02:59] Luis returns to Guatemala after a scholarship to college in the US, as he had committed to.
[03:38] Luis takes the hardest class—plant pathology—wanting to improve resistance to disease.
[04:49] Becoming a professor of fungal genetics, Luis wants to protect plants.
[05:40] Suddenly, Luis gets a brain tumor and his full life stops.
[06:50] Luis describes growing up amidst poverty and political violence in Guatemala.
[07:24] Surviving the tumor, Luis's ‘recovery’ goal is to run a marathon which takes him a year.
[07:57] Luis has to reinvent himself and recognizes ‘what I do is not who I am’.
[09:18] Luis gives his tumor a funny name and begins his second journey.
[10:00] Exploring the various ways Luis can use the same tools; he chooses Human Resources.
[12:21] With reflection and research, Luis realizes everyone has resilience within that they can access.
[14:07] Overwhelming amounts of information now at work put us in a phase of beginners.
[15:02] In flatter organizations, how can we learn what we need to know?
[15:53] We must be intentional about connections, not optimizing meetings only for efficiency.
[17:32] How trusting relationships change interpersonal dynamics.
[18:45] The power of social resilience, including allowing us to mimic solutions.
[20:07] The most important question is ‘what is the problem you are trying to solve?’
[21:48] Resilience is not changing, but adapting, who we are.
[22:44] Luis’s niche is helping people who are difficult at work, often misunderstood.
[23:31] When intention is not aligned with action, and how to motivate alignment.
[24:43] What small adjustment can be made to fulfill your intention and be perceived differently?
[26:34] How entrepreneurs perceive failure if they attach their identity to their product.
[27:55] The mental model that separates outcomes and outputs.
[29:46] The power of reframing – such as the difference between a position and an option.
[32:13] Younger employees are afraid of making mistakes and losing face.
[32:58] The three types of failure and the issue of not clarifying when failure happens.
[33:58] Resilience: taking a small risk, being able to make a mistake, adapt, and improve.
[35:25] Luis's mental model ANT: an Annoying Negative Thought!
[36:08] How to dispel swirling negative thoughts.
[37:05] Everyone has what it takes to be resilient - a commitment and a decision to move forward.
[38:11] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: To be more resilient to change, describe yourself—who are you? Then give yourself permission to move forward in the direction you want. Make a choice. Make a decision as the first step.
RESOURCES
Luis Velasquez on LinkedIn
Luis’s company VelasCoaching.com
Decisive by Chip and Dan Heath
QUOTES edited
“I realized that who I am is not what I do or even what I have.”
“I learned over the years that the world doesn't belong to the people that know the most but to the people that learn the fastest.”
“We all are in a phase of beginners because we cannot know everything…Right now, a lot of the things that we are trying to work on, we don't even know how to start. Everybody's doing something new.”
“Whatever problem you are having, whether it is a work or in life, somebody already went through that. All we need to do is ask…If you are socially resilient, you will find people who are going to solve your problem.”
“The entrepreneurial spirit is not tied to the product…Separate the identity of these individuals [entrepreneurs] with what they're trying to accomplish. Those are two completely different things.”
“When you take a position, it's very hard to defend. And it's also very hard to see other options available. But if you shift it and say this is an option – how else can we do it?”
“Younger employees are afraid of making mistakes. Losing face is a big issue. I think that that fear comes from the inflexibility of organizations to accept mistakes and failures.”
“Resilience is taking the first step and moving forward.”
“I think that the biggest gift that life has given us is the ability to make a choice. You can, I can, everybody can say, I am going to do something different. I am going to stop doing X. Just making that decision will take you a long way. It's making the decision as the first step.”
Vidya Krishnan, Chief Learning Officer at Ericsson, combines her engineering experience, systems thinking, and love of learning to connect core upskilling with corporate strategy. For Vidya, learning at the speed of technology development requires a learning mindset and future-focused dynamic approach to jobs and skills. Vidya explains how a project marketplace enables internal talent mobility: redesigning work with a skills-focus; facilitating evolution to ‘resource fluidity’; and allowing organic shifts into emerging areas as employees gravitate towards where work is flowing. Vidya recommends stability management with change management.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:06] Vidya studies electrical engineering influenced by her family’s engineering legacy.
[03:16] Deeply admiring engineering and loving learning, Vidya admits she had ‘will before skill’.
[04:14] Vidya promotes internships: good summertime feedback boosts her while some college studies challenge.
[05:07] For personal reasons Vidya leaves AT&T joining Nortel (acquired by Ericsson) in Dallas.
[06:19] Always an engineer, now focused on people’s experiences in L&D, Vidya loves teaching.
[08:24] Learning is as the heart of every transformation for Vidya’s team and workplace.
[09:19] Learning even more from failure, by addressing both shame and ignorance after mistakes.
[11:11] Technology and people are inherently upgradable—ongoing learning at a tech company.
[12:34] How engineers need "power skills" like storytelling and managing stakeholders.
[14:05] Looking creatively to other industries, like aviation, to solve engineering challenges.
[16:49] Vidya has a double life for three years learning and networking at learning conferences.
[18:54] Managers want her to advance in engineering, but Vidya is determined to change field.
[19:45] Vidya overcomes self-doubt and family concerns while transitioning her career.
[21:15] After three years, Vidya transitions horizontally into technical training for customers.
[22:56] Becoming a studio offering digital learning using multimedia and experiential techniques.
[23:41] How to create capabilities that customers will pay for and employees value.
[27:00] Systems thinking to describe work’s three dimensions: digital ecosystem, business system, and culture system.
[30:14] A systems vs programmatic approach to work is strategic and natural at a tech company.
[31:20] Skills development is vital and therefore must be connected to company strategy.
[33:21] Constructing a framework where skills are derivative of corporate strategy.
[34:20] Starting with the one skill that is most consequential to the strategy—less is more.
[36:20] Two sets of skills—global critical skills (top down) and job role skills (bottom up).
[37:30] Digitalizing a job architecture starts development of a skills taxonomy.
[38:23] Getting on the skills games board through credentialing and contribution.
[39:13] To be future focused, skills and job roles are digitalized into a relational database.
[40:40] Skills’ journey phases: initialize, mobilize, and capitalize advancing with winnable games.
[43:10] "Resource fluidity" is where employees’ skills are not confined to their job role—reskill and constantly redeploy.
[44:45] A talent marketplace that is a project marketplace redesigns work to put skills to work.
[47:43] Disaggregating work into projects enables work packages doable outside of people’s day jobs—a third space—to develop new skills.
[50:30] Enabling employees to gravitate towards emerging areas from eroding areas.
[51:35] The hypothesis that progressive career reinvention at scale will pay for itself.
[52:25] A project marketplace creates capability and expands capacity.
[54:50] Partnership is the new leadership, and co-creation and co-ownership are key to execution.
[56:10] Stability management needs to accompany change management.
[57:16] How business cross-functionality can allow varied thinking and ‘wicked’ problem solving.
[58:13] Project marketplace decouples work from many traditional boundaries.
[01:00:21] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Start now. Start small with one critical skill. Connect it to strategy, which is done systematically.
RESOURCES
Vidya Krishnan on LinkedIn
Ericsson.com
Books mentioned:
Range by David Epstein
The Problem with Change by Ashley Goodall
Reinventing Organizations by Frederic Lalou
QUOTES (edited)
“If we give people the opportunity to put their skills to work, this is actually very healthy for the company because we are organically self-shaping away from eroding areas into emerging areas …people naturally gravitating to where the work is flowing.”
“You have a dynamic platform that's digitalized for jobs and skills to stay in lockstep with industry evolution: what's emerging, what's eroding, and for that stuff to easily automatically flow through every other system in the company where people are making decisions about who to hire, how to evolve their career, how to specify the requirements for this requisition, what job roles need to go out the window, what new job roles need to be introduced.”
“How do you put learning in the flow of work and work in the flow of learning so that it's happening to people experientially?”
“Work has three dimensions: there's an ecosystem, a business system and a culture system.”
“The logic was that if things that are vital should be systematic rather than programmatic so that they happen no matter what, because that's what vital things should do. And then you fundamentally believe that skills are vital, as I do, because they are what connect strategy to execution. So if you believe that, then it follows you must take a systematic approach.”
“Strategy without skills is a daydream. Skills and execution without strategy is a nightmare.”
“Capabilities are what create execution of the strategy.” “It's a means to an end. What's the end? It's to execute strategy. Therefore, it has to be systematically connected to strategy.”
“Partnership is a new leadership and co creation and co ownership is actually the key to execution, which is not clean and it may be a little bit messy.”
Mark Ma, a research professor at the University of Pittsburgh, studies social and economic issues including Return To Office (RTO) mandates, AI, and tax evasion. A working parent during the pandemic, Mark describes how personal and community experiences initially generated his interest in researching remote work options and hybrid policies. He shares his discoveries that stock market declines generated RTO mandates but not improved corporate results. Mark discusses the dynamics of executives’ control, power, and distrust affecting work policies. He advocates for workplace flexibility—giving employees and teams choices.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:23] While Mark’s parents advised him to study accounting, he found it fascinating.
[03:01] For his PhD, Mark explores financial analysis, and his tax avoidance research is cited.
[03:45] Passionate about research, Mark pursues academia, also appreciating the flexible lifestyle.
[05:09] Parental challenges during the pandemic fuels Mark’s interest in remote work options.
[05:50] Noticing neighbors’ complaints about returning to the office, Mark attends a conference and hears about working from home research.
[06:41] Mark gets tenure and explores risky research projects that help improve people’s lives.
[08:25] In late 2022, Mark starts collecting data on companies’ return-to-office mandates.
[09:25] Leaders say remote workers aren’t working hard, while employees keep performing.
[11:06] Return-To-Office mandates often happen after a stock price crash—but why?
[12:00] How remote work gets blamed—without evidence—for poor performance.
[14:36] RTO mandates also result from executives’ loss of control and not trusting employees.
[15:40] Companies may also use RTO policies to easily/cheaply lay off employees.
[18:16] Male and powerful CEOs—with higher relative salaries—issue more RTO mandates to assert control.
[21:38] Employee and team choice is recommended combined with intentional office time.
[22:32] Mark needs data from companies offering employee choice to confirm the best approach.
[24:58] Amazon’s shifts to 3-days/wk then 5-days/week RTO has caused employee dissatisfaction and departures.
[25:50] One example of Nvidia’s flexible policy enables it to benefit from Amazon’s rigid one.
[26:59] Mark finds no evidence that RTO mandates help firms’ performance or stock price.
[27:43] Should productivity be measured appropriately and over what time period?
[29:12] States level data shows structured hybrid work reduces depression and suicide risks.
[32:00] Fully remote workers often self-select which fits their lifestyle and social setup.
[32:50] Companies going fully remote need regular off-site engagements to mitigate isolation.
[34:18] New research explores RTO mandates’ affect turnover, especially in finance and tech.
[35:20] Initial findings show higher turnover, especially among women, follows RTO mandates.
[36:48] After RTOs announcements, turnover increases quickly as some people can’t go back to the office.
[39:06] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: “First, allow flexibility so employees have choice. Second, promote flexible team leaders to signal that people working from home will not be penalized. Third, for new graduate hires who want to work at the office, ensure mentors are present to support them.
RESOURCES
Mark Ma on LinkedIn
Is Workplace Flexibility Good for the Environment?
Research on Return To Office Mandates
Mental Health Benefits of Workplace Flexibility
QUOTES
“The more powerful CEOs and the male CEOs are more likely to impose return-to-office mandates.”
“You should allow team choice plus employee choice. That means teams decide when they want to come to office together. And on those in office days, those meetings should be intentional.”
“We clearly do not find any evidence that Return To Office mandates help firms’ performance or stock price.”
“Five-day in-office work is not necessarily good for your mental health.”
“A lot of top executives, when they do not see the employees in the office, they do not trust the employees. They feel they have lost control of the employees.”
"Firms are telling their employees, you can work from home, but you will not be promoted. That's not a good strategy because your good employees will leave."
"By promoting flexible team leaders, you will send a signal to those people who want to stay remote or hybrid that there is a clear career path for them."
Mika Cross is a Workplace Transformation Strategist at Strategy@Work. She discusses her military career and years federal government agency experience including talent management, workplace flexibility, and wellness. Mika shares her approach to distributed teams, performance management, and work-life balance. She describes how flexible private sector workforce management policies, informed by public sector successes, foster engagement, retain talent, and meet the diverse needs of the modern, distributed workforce. Mika describes how remote work options allow us to reimagine veterans’ and civilians’ working lives and communities.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:39] MIka works wants to be a journalist then has to take a break in her studies.
[03:17] A mentor suggests military service so Mika can complete her education and serve nobly.
[04:26] Mika has some job options from Uncle Sam after finishing top three in her officer training class.
[05:35] Mika is attracted by inclusive workplaces that support the whole soldier and family.
[06:32] Working for a rapidly deployable unit, Mika must support distributed teams holistically.
[07:33] The military is facing shortages, how can retention be improved using flexibility?
[09:15] How to share knowledge across agencies while dealing with confidential information.
[10:31] What does employee experience look like in the federal government?
[11:49] The power of communication to enable effective policy implementation.
[13:41] Managers want discretion and information to make the right decisions for their teams.
[16:11] With deep knowledge of federal regulations, Mika takes an integrated systems approach.
[17:44] What are the blocks to effective equal opportunity?
[18:37] Mika finds some workplace flexibility policy options blocked by supervisors.
[19:50] Mindsets can prevent advancements or enable cultural transformation.
[21:26] How to measure the impact of policies including cost savings.
[23:04] Taking a multi-pronged approach with broad buy in and incentivized training.
[24:25] Celebrating wins, measuring engagement, and saving on leases.
[25:34] The benefits of getting multiple share stakeholders on board.
[26:36] The USDA gets recognition and rewards as one of America's best workplaces.
[27:25] Achieving savings of $8 million per year through telecommuting.
[31:00] Negotiating work policies with 92 unions!
[36:34] Enabling veterans’ smooth transitions into civilian jobs requires many types of flexibility.
[38:20] Mika explores upskilling, reskilling and benefits.
[40:14] Veterans often returning to Hometown USA find few jobs after years of rural brain drain.
[41:20] Three ways to provide thriving healthy supportive workplaces to veterans.
[42:43] Military spouses need remote work options as they support transitioning veterans.
[45:01] The wild opportunity to reimagine the nation, rebuilding Hometown USA.
[46:58] The importance of soft skills -- or success skills as Mike calls them.
[48:18] Mika believes in career readiness skills so workers learn how to work.
[49:14] Moving to a skills-based talent economy.
[50:27] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: If you don’t include flexibility in your work policies and turnover increases, recognize the burden on employees who stay and the loss of skills and organizational knowledge. Instead, extend a little trust and autonomy first, hold people accountable second, and teach flexible open mindsets.
RESOURCES
Mika Cross on LinkedIn
Mika’s website MikaCross.com
QUOTES
“I ended up seeing the power of inclusive workplaces, supportive workplaces, policies, procedures and programs that supported the whole soldier in order to get the best out of our troops, especially when they are deploying into conflict and being separated from their families and having to support the other half of that equation, which is their spouse, their families, their children, their loved ones.”
“It really helped me to inform, regardless of what my work was or what projects I was working on, how are people interpreting even the wording in these policies to be able to implement them successfully the way we intended.”
“The Secretary of Agriculture had included telework work life and wellness as a component of his vision for cultural transformation and had monthly metrics to which he reviewed and held his sub cabinet committee accountable for each and every month.”
“If you have jobs that are suitable to be done in a remote capacity, could you be leveraging those remote jobs for the purpose of attracting and hiring an amazing skillset of talent from either military spouses or transitioning veterans?”
“We're looking at wild opportunity for our nation to rebuild and put emphasis in areas of the country that sort of have been left behind in the past.”
“When you consider older workers staying longer, trying to continue working, this can really create opportunity not just for employers, but for those communities where they live. If they're able to continue contributing their tax base, to the infrastructure, and re-imagining what our Hometown USAs can look like all around the country.”
“What we used to call soft skills; I like to call them success skills—skills that any worker needs in any industry and occupation. These are what can set you apart from someone else. Things like critical thinking, autonomous work ethic, conflict resolution skills, interpersonal, and intergenerational skills.”
Paul J. Zak is a Professor and Director of the Center for Neuroeconomics Studies at Claremont Graduate University. Paul is the Founder of Immersion Neuroscience a company that enables measurement of immersion in experiences in real-time. He has authored books including Immersion and The Trust Factor. Paul emphasizes customer lifetime value and the effect of creating extraordinary experiences for customers and employees. He discusses the neuroscience linking trust, psychological safety, and employee engagement to improved business outcomes. Paul highlights emotional fitness and how leaders creating empathetic, trust-based cultures enable employees to flourish, boosting their satisfaction and well-being.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:43] Paul studies mathematics, biology, and neuroscience to understand human behavior.
[03:21] ‘Why are we nice to each other?’ has been a core area of study in Paul’s lab.
[04:00] Humans are naturally group-oriented and thrive when working collaboratively.
[05:35] Creating extraordinary employee experiences is key to engagement and performance.
[06:52] Paul focuses on Customer Lifetime Value (CLV) supported by strong employee engagement.
[07:40] Improved customer service helps customers and can boost employee satisfaction too.
[10:12] Businesses must focus on retaining talent by fostering employee growth and satisfaction.
[11:15] Paul advocates for a coaching model of leadership that encourages autonomy.
[12:06] Trust with psychological safety allows employees to be comfortable and burn less neurologic energy.
[13:46] Leaders must create environments for people to flourish, not expecting consistency.
[14:39] The "Whole Person Review" is forward-looking focusing on professional, personal, and spiritual growth.
[16:56] With empathy and trust closely related, leaders best recognize employees as humans with emotions and personal lives.
[18:12] Paul enjoys daily huddles fostering team connection and alignment at work.
[19:04] Leaders benefit from in-person interactions to build and sustain relationships.
[22:04] What experiences do people value? Offer the office as a social emotional hub.
[24:24] Six peak immersion moments per day lasting three minutes build emotional fitness.
[24:56] Adding a social layer to any experience increases neurologic immersion and satisfaction.
[25:32] Video conference interactions achieve 50- 80% of the value of in-person interactions.
[28:35] Leaders need to understand brain responses to nurture psychological safety.
[29:20] Teams of 15-20 perform better because individuals can maintain strong connections.
[30:09] Creating an environment where people can flourish and be fully engaged at work and outside work.
[32:18] Eight factors generate peak immersion moments so employees can adjust assignments with their supervisor.
[33:09] A Google employee finds she loves coaching and moves to Facebook to mentor developers.
[34:38] Crafting jobs that challenge people—to do what is hard to master but achievable.
[35:40] Conversations about investing in professional development—a key trust factor.
[37:50] Train extensively then delegate generously to give people control over their work lives.
[38:41] Autonomy and job satisfaction improved when hospital nurses had more decision-making power in patient care.
[41:12] Leaders should model behaviors they want to see.
[43:52] Stress is not bad—manageable challenges can stimulate engagement and bonding.
[44:42] Paul’s skydiving experiences and his oxytocin and stress levels inverted over time.
[46:05] Challenges at work enable employees to perform at their best and achieve satisfaction.
[47:02] Create environments where employees can flourish, be safe, have immersion moments, and connect with each other.
[49:14] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: For a longer happier life, invest time in things that excite and engage you to build up emotional fitness and resilience. Emotional fitness motivates people to exercise more, eat and sleep better which improves health and extends life span.
RESOURCES
Paul J. Zak Ph.D. on LinkedIn
Paul’s company Immersion’s website
Paul’s books “Immersion”, “The Trust Factor”, “The Moral Molecule”
QUOTES (edited)
“If employees do not love what they're doing, they're just not going to perform as well. So how do I create this environment where employees can really flourish and share that with customers?”
“You have this kind of inverted pyramid where leadership is at service of the individual--employees who are creating value. Then you see this great connection with the company's purpose.”
“If we can create an environment where employees have this real sense of mission, they're connected to the purpose of the organization, they're working in an environment where they really can flourish professionally, then when they come home, they actually are more satisfied with their lives outside of work.”
“If I understand an employee as a leader—you're not human capital, you're a human being—you have emotions, you have a personal life. Hopefully, you love what you do here, you feel like you're fairly compensated and you're excited about how we improve our customers' lives. If I recognize all of that, then I'm going to be much more of a guide or a coach and less of a top-down micromanager.”
“I have to have this empathy of intolerance for the kind of weirdness of human beings!”
“Am I creating this environment of psychological safety where people are sufficiently comfortable, so they have the brain bandwidth to be fully in on the tasks they're doing?”
“From a psychological perspective, when people have control over their work lives, they have greater job satisfaction. They don't get burned out as often. And when an employee is trained, then they need some discretion on how they execute their job.”
Kelly Monahan, Ph.D., is Managing Director of Upwork’s Research Institute, with research published in applied and academic journals. Kelly is the author of “How Behavioral Economics Influences Management Decision-making: A New Paradigm.” She shares insights from studies of strategic leadership and organizational behavior. Kelly urges executives and managers to rethink their approach to work and leading a distributed, blended, and AI-augmented workforce. She emphasizes accessing versus acquiring skilled talent enabling businesses to be agile and compete.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:21] Kelly misses a human element in her business degree so gets into strategic leadership.
[03:10] Kelly aligns with Edward Deming’s thinking that systems are the issue, not the people.
[03:57] Leadership feels broken. As part of her Ph.D., Kelly researches how people learn.
[04:55] Kelly discovers business philosophy is founded on the assumption that people are lazy.
[05:50] Kelly focuses on how leaders can appeal to people’s intrinsic motivations.
[06:31] Early in her career, Kelly works as a media planner during the financial crisis.
[08:55] In 2015, CEOs 3 big worries: more distributed work, blended workforces, AI taking jobs.
[12:05] Leaders struggle to manage distributed and cross-functional teams.
[12:35] Leading through influence, not hierarchy, requires the new power skill, empathy.
[13:13] Most leadership theories derive from the military and don’t translate well for business.
[14:37] Kelly finds more emphasis on empathy in the military than business leadership.
[00:15:19] At Accenture, the pandemic lockdown stops Kelly from announcing a new people-first approach.
[00:17:27] During the crisis, Kelly stress-tests the framework and sees employees’ needs evolve.
[00:19:40] Kelly joins Meta, excited about the possibilities of VR/AR in shaping the future of work.
[00:20:28] Tech companies have location-centric cultures so what is distributed work going to look like?
[21:20] Hands-on, Kelly tries to understand how leadership norms and careers will evolve.
[22:00] Relying on local talent will not be sufficient as engineer must be hired further afield.
[22:50] How Ready Player One expresses some of Kelly’s technology-related fears.
[23:28] Meta focuses on bringing social presence and connections into digital environments.
[24:53] Kelly is bullish about personal connections and realistic human presence in virtual space.
[26:05] Virtual environments could democratize access to learning, but there are trade-offs.
[26:45] Kelly goes to Upwork seeing the urgent need for companies to access skilled external talent.
[28:58] Over 2-3 years, Kelly predicts companies have a more blended talent mix to be more agile.
[31:16] Freelancers tend to stay competitively upskilled compared to full-time employees.
[32:14] GenAI is disrupting tasks, causing leaders to rethink how work is done and by whom.
[35:05] HR strategies do not align with Gen Zers’ desire for diversified work to have financial stability.
[37:05] Kelly advocates more dynamic “talent access” rather than “talent acquisition.”
[39:00] Using an abundant mindset rather than a scarcity ‘war for talent’-type mindset.
[41:00] Kelly highlights NASA which successfully uses external talent to solve big problems.
[42:56] Kelly believes connecting business performance with new ways of working is key for businesses survival.
[45:15] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Rather than thinking of a job when analyzing work, consider ‘what’s the problem I’m trying to solve for?’ Then what are the skills you need to achieve the project and how can AI and skilled freelancers be incorporated as part of the solution?
RESOURCES
Kelly Monahan on LinkedIn
Upwork
Upwork’s Research Institute
Care to do better Research
QUOTES (edited)
“The true power skill today of how people lead—it's not through formal structure, it is through their ability to empathize and move people to move in a direction they otherwise wouldn't.”
“Whether it's transformational leadership or servant leadership or authentic leadership, all these different theories, they really didn't translate well into the business world because so much of it was actually still from a transactional, top down driven approach.”
“Today's need, urgent need, is to help leaders begin to realize that there's really skilled outside talented, that they need to learn how to capture and create the processes and leadership styles and environment to actually bring in this talent in order to continue to navigate the turbulent times we were in.”
“I think the next wave of innovation is going to come from a much more disciplined approach of how companies are organizing their talent, in particular, and beginning to really right size the mix that they need. Skills change too quickly to continue to keep really large, full-time core up to date. It's nearly an impossible task.”
“Freelancers tend to be at the bleeding edge of their skilling. When your livelihood depends on it, you make the time to upskill and learn. We're seeing that with generative AI as being the most recent use case—freelancers are much more ahead of this technology curve.”
“How much is this [Generative AI] actually disrupting work at the task level itself, which is going to cause leaders to rethink ‘How do I actually really need to get this work done? Is it a full time employee or is it a combination of a freelancer and AI working together to get this work delivered?’”
“Leadership and talent in HR strategies have not kept pace with the way that the social contract has changed. When you ask the majority of Gen Z'ers today in particular, ‘Where do you find the more stability? Is it that one to one relationship or is it the one to many?’ The majority of Gen Z are telling us it's the one to many is where they actually feel more stable and they feel more in control of their career.”
“The majority of executives have been taught 'I'm in a war for talent'. When you have that mindset, it's very much a scarcity mindset. Because we're dealing with people and human beings, I encourage much more of a collaborative ecosystem, an abundant mindset as opposed to a scarcity mindset.”
John Hopkins PhD is Associate Professor of Supply Chain Management at Swinburne University of Technology. He is also Founder of WorkFLEX which helps people transition to new ways of working. John discusses how his academic involvement in supply chain dynamics and traffic congestion led him to investigate flexible working. He highlights the long-term sustainability of hybrid work, emphasizing its potential to reduce supply chain bottlenecks and improve work-life balance. John discusses Australia's new “Right to Disconnect” law and other countries introducing healthy work boundaries. He predicts work time reduction is the next big work topic.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:08] John starts his working career with a mechanical engineering apprenticeship.
[02:37] John studies mechanical engineering with management, focusing on supply chains.
[03:15] Learning about global business flow working at a car parts supplier.
[04:10] John’s PhD on e-commerce explores emerging virtual marketplaces.
[05:35] A UK defense project John works on uses technology to support fast decision-making.
[06:34] Researching traffic flow, supply chain challenges relate to office-centric work culture.
[07:30] John questions why people are commuting each day to the office.
[08:55] Employees’ tools are no longer city based.
[09:50] John and his partner travel around the world, love Australia and pledge to go back.
[11:40] John’s interest in technologies enabling supply chain communication and collaboration.
[12:20] John wins an innovation fellowship and uses his research on flexible working to launch WorkFLEX.
[13:30] The pandemic hits and John develops online course content to help people adapt.
[15:20] #1: Companies wanted flexible working and reacted quickly given enough motivation.
[16:23] #2: Attitudes and behaviors adapted rapidly as well.
[17:20] #3: 2024 has been a seminal year as hybrid is firmly embedded in Australian work practices.
[18:24] John finds the hybrid compromise to be a win-win.
[19:57] Most companies are not implementing hybrid well, not customizing the model.
[22:00] We need to discuss with employees what work they are doing and where = how.
[24:50] How the pandemic shone a light on the supply chain.
[25:30] John was Mr. Toilet Paper for a while in 2020!
[27:40] Research that combines supply chains and flexible working.
[30:32] Lack of effective risk management in supply chains was highlighted during the crisis.
[32:35] Cities were designed based on people flow—e.g. where water processing is needed.
[33:40] Some of the return to office push is related to investment in city infrastructure.
[36:19] Scale is the biggest issue with supply chains.
[37:10] Technologically sophisticated supply chains are patchworks of thousands of moving parts.
[38:22] We take for granted the relationships that enable us to have easy access to so much.
[39:25] Trust is essential to make the supply chain work.
[41:28] The new “Right to Disconnect” law in Australia comes into effect in August 2024.
[42:25] Before 2009, we actively needed to “connect” to access work outside office hours.
[44:44] The norm of being connected was never specified, so the law is a first healthy boundary on work practices.
[47:40] France’s similar law in 2017 did not reduce productivity and emergencies are excluded.
[48:22] Giving workers confidence to not respond and reverse unhealthy behavioral norms.
[50:04] Governments may not need to create more mandates; flexible work is already in process.
[50:38] The Right to Request Flexibility laws in Singapore and the UK.
[51:25] Next step may be the Four Day Workweek, now ‘work’ is being discussed broadly.
[52:50] The intensification of work combined with longer working hours.
[54:04] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Keep it simple. Go to the basics. Make decisions based on ‘would the customer care’?
RESOURCES
John Hopkins PhD on LinkedIn
WorkFLEX Australia
John Hopkins PhD press on the “Right to Disconnect”
QUOTES (edited)
“We need to start thinking about what the work is that the people are doing and how often they should come together based on that, not based on anything else.”
“I feel that one thing the pandemic has done is that it's allowed us to have discussions about anything to do with work.”
“Trust is a really big thing. So in terms of supply chain, you need to be able to trust that you are going to get from a supplier what you need when you need it, in the quantity that you need, and the quality that you need.”
“We've got this intensification of work because we have all these tools that do things quicker and quicker for us. We're working more hours and doing more per hour.”
“Let's not have these mandates that just say two days or three days or whatever, with no further thinking or justification behind that. That's going to upset everybody.”
“Looking at flexible and remote work and flexible work arrangements and how that can impact and benefit supply chains. Let's remember that almost every organization has a supply chain. So everybody's got some support in a supply chain somewhere along the line.”
“My big prediction in terms of what will happen next in this whole kind of field is more about work time reduction.“
“It was never written into a policy that I'm aware of where we would say, you will be available to do this, you will be available to do that. It’s a societal norm that has evolved.”
“What this law is doing, or it's certainly taking the first step towards achieving, is putting a boundary around work time and rest time.”
#fourdayworkweek #timereduction #supplychain #hybridmodel #righttodisconnect #australia #bottlenecks #flexibility #flexibleworking #congestion #trafficflow #worklifebalance
Dan Smolen is the host and executive producer of the "What's Your Work Fit?" podcast and a veteran executive recruiter. He explores how talent dynamics are evolving in the modern workplace as recruiters shift to focus on candidates' ability to adapt, learn continuously, and work collaboratively. Dan shares his insights on early talent’s new definitions of success, their emphasis on work/life balance, and preferences for flexible working. Dan describes how these changes are reshaping recruitment strategies and the critical role of empathy in modern hiring practices.Top of FormBottom of Form
TAKEAWAYS
[02:03] Dan chooses his college based on his interest in broadcasting.
[03:02] The Watergate scandal stimulates Dan’s passion for journalism at high school.
[03:44] Dan's goal was to become a news producer as he loves the news!
[04:53] An internship at Qube during college helps Dan realize broadcasting isn’t a good fit.
[06:16] Mentored by a legend in advertising, Dans focuses on marketing.
[07:31] During his early career, Dan works long hours and deals with difficult creative talent.
[09:04] Dan soon manages significant revenue for a top ad agency.
[10:56] While achieving early success, Dan’s workload impacts his well-being.
[11:57] Offered an interesting and lucrative opportunity, Dan transitions to recruiting and loves it.
[15:51] Recruitment requires deep understanding of both client needs and candidate fit.
[17:15] As clients recover from 9/11, Dan adopts a more human-centric approach to recruiting.
[19:50] LinkedIn's launch in 2003 fosters Dan's consultative recruiting approach.
[23:26] Dan goes deeper into clients' organizational issues and achieves more success.
[25:34] Situational interview techniques better match candidates with new job realities.
[27:28] Fast-paced marketplace changes require recruiting adaptable, lifelong learners.
[29:11] Companies shift from seeking specialized skills to valuing generalists willing to learn.
[32:26] Dan notices the benefits of proactive recruitment, engaging talent before roles open up.
[34:52] Early engagement with prospects helps companies build better, longer-lasting teams.
[37:17] Dan uses a "rent to own" model for testing candidate-company fit when necessary.
[39:53] Dan predicts more entrepreneurship as young people seek flexible work arrangements.
[42:54] Traditional office-based arrangements roles are less appealing to younger generations.
[43:50] Dan decides to end his recruiting career and pursue his passion for podcasting.
[46:22] Dan's relationships with talent were a key driver for his recruiting success.
[47:42] "What's Your Work Fit?" podcast explores what makes work meaningful for individuals.
[49:34] Each guest is asked, "What makes work a wonderful part of your day?"
[51:24] Dan believes people are increasingly seeking meaningful work that balances with life.
[54:03] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Your success is what you make of it. You don’t know where you’re headed. Don’t worry. Put on a good pair of shoes, strap on your backpack and enjoy the journey. Even savor the screw-ups, the mess ups and the learning opportunities!
[55:32] Dan emphasizes the importance of hobbies and diverse experiences for a fulfilling life.
[56:04] Engaging with people and creating serendipity are key to living a balanced, inspired life.
RESOURCES
Dan Smolen on LinkedIn
“What’s Your Work Fit?” podcast
Dan Smolen’s website
QUOTES
“The opportunity that we have before us is to impart to workplace entrants like our children's ages, is to say to them that your success is what you make of it. Don't let others define what it means to be successful".
"You don't know where you're headed. You don't know where it's going to lead you. You don't know the milestones along the way. Don't worry. Put on a good pair of shoes, strap on your backpack, and enjoy the journey“.
“Savor the screw ups and the mess ups and the learning opportunities, because without those, you're not going to end up in a beautiful place. You've got to have the learning that comes from pain and disappointment and longing in your career so that you grow as a person."
“They look at that and say, that's not a life. I want to have a day where I'm doing work, I'm doing things that I really enjoy, but I may want to do blended things.”
“For the first time that I can recognize, talent look at the day where work is a beautiful part of it.”
"If you don't know how to work on a team now, if you don't know how to be part of something bigger than yourself, I think it's going to be very difficult ongoing.”
The podcast currently has 132 episodes available.