By Sophie Wade
5
77 ratings
The podcast currently has 126 episodes available.
Paul J. Zak is a Professor and Director of the Center for Neuroeconomics Studies at Claremont Graduate University. Paul is the Founder of Immersion Neuroscience a company that enables measurement of immersion in experiences in real-time. He has authored books including Immersion and The Trust Factor. Paul emphasizes customer lifetime value and the effect of creating extraordinary experiences for customers and employees. He discusses the neuroscience linking trust, psychological safety, and employee engagement to improved business outcomes. Paul highlights emotional fitness and how leaders creating empathetic, trust-based cultures enable employees to flourish, boosting their satisfaction and well-being.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:43] Paul studies mathematics, biology, and neuroscience to understand human behavior.
[03:21] ‘Why are we nice to each other?’ has been a core area of study in Paul’s lab.
[04:00] Humans are naturally group-oriented and thrive when working collaboratively.
[05:35] Creating extraordinary employee experiences is key to engagement and performance.
[06:52] Paul focuses on Customer Lifetime Value (CLV) supported by strong employee engagement.
[07:40] Improved customer service helps customers and can boost employee satisfaction too.
[10:12] Businesses must focus on retaining talent by fostering employee growth and satisfaction.
[11:15] Paul advocates for a coaching model of leadership that encourages autonomy.
[12:06] Trust with psychological safety allows employees to be comfortable and burn less neurologic energy.
[13:46] Leaders must create environments for people to flourish, not expecting consistency.
[14:39] The "Whole Person Review" is forward-looking focusing on professional, personal, and spiritual growth.
[16:56] With empathy and trust closely related, leaders best recognize employees as humans with emotions and personal lives.
[18:12] Paul enjoys daily huddles fostering team connection and alignment at work.
[19:04] Leaders benefit from in-person interactions to build and sustain relationships.
[22:04] What experiences do people value? Offer the office as a social emotional hub.
[24:24] Six peak immersion moments per day lasting three minutes build emotional fitness.
[24:56] Adding a social layer to any experience increases neurologic immersion and satisfaction.
[25:32] Video conference interactions achieve 50- 80% of the value of in-person interactions.
[28:35] Leaders need to understand brain responses to nurture psychological safety.
[29:20] Teams of 15-20 perform better because individuals can maintain strong connections.
[30:09] Creating an environment where people can flourish and be fully engaged at work and outside work.
[32:18] Eight factors generate peak immersion moments so employees can adjust assignments with their supervisor.
[33:09] A Google employee finds she loves coaching and moves to Facebook to mentor developers.
[34:38] Crafting jobs that challenge people—to do what is hard to master but achievable.
[35:40] Conversations about investing in professional development—a key trust factor.
[37:50] Train extensively then delegate generously to give people control over their work lives.
[38:41] Autonomy and job satisfaction improved when hospital nurses had more decision-making power in patient care.
[41:12] Leaders should model behaviors they want to see.
[43:52] Stress is not bad—manageable challenges can stimulate engagement and bonding.
[44:42] Paul’s skydiving experiences and his oxytocin and stress levels inverted over time.
[46:05] Challenges at work enable employees to perform at their best and achieve satisfaction.
[47:02] Create environments where employees can flourish, be safe, have immersion moments, and connect with each other.
[49:14] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: For a longer happier life, invest time in things that excite and engage you to build up emotional fitness and resilience. Emotional fitness motivates people to exercise more, eat and sleep better which improves health and extends life span.
RESOURCES
Paul J. Zak Ph.D. on LinkedIn
Paul’s company Immersion’s website
Paul’s books “Immersion”, “The Trust Factor”, “The Moral Molecule”
QUOTES (edited)
“If employees do not love what they're doing, they're just not going to perform as well. So how do I create this environment where employees can really flourish and share that with customers?”
“You have this kind of inverted pyramid where leadership is at service of the individual--employees who are creating value. Then you see this great connection with the company's purpose.”
“If we can create an environment where employees have this real sense of mission, they're connected to the purpose of the organization, they're working in an environment where they really can flourish professionally, then when they come home, they actually are more satisfied with their lives outside of work.”
“If I understand an employee as a leader—you're not human capital, you're a human being—you have emotions, you have a personal life. Hopefully, you love what you do here, you feel like you're fairly compensated and you're excited about how we improve our customers' lives. If I recognize all of that, then I'm going to be much more of a guide or a coach and less of a top-down micromanager.”
“I have to have this empathy of intolerance for the kind of weirdness of human beings!”
“Am I creating this environment of psychological safety where people are sufficiently comfortable, so they have the brain bandwidth to be fully in on the tasks they're doing?”
“From a psychological perspective, when people have control over their work lives, they have greater job satisfaction. They don't get burned out as often. And when an employee is trained, then they need some discretion on how they execute their job.”
Kelly Monahan, Ph.D., is Managing Director of Upwork’s Research Institute, with research published in applied and academic journals. Kelly is the author of “How Behavioral Economics Influences Management Decision-making: A New Paradigm.” She shares insights from studies of strategic leadership and organizational behavior. Kelly urges executives and managers to rethink their approach to work and leading a distributed, blended, and AI-augmented workforce. She emphasizes accessing versus acquiring skilled talent enabling businesses to be agile and compete.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:21] Kelly misses a human element in her business degree so gets into strategic leadership.
[03:10] Kelly aligns with Edward Deming’s thinking that systems are the issue, not the people.
[03:57] Leadership feels broken. As part of her Ph.D., Kelly researches how people learn.
[04:55] Kelly discovers business philosophy is founded on the assumption that people are lazy.
[05:50] Kelly focuses on how leaders can appeal to people’s intrinsic motivations.
[06:31] Early in her career, Kelly works as a media planner during the financial crisis.
[08:55] In 2015, CEOs 3 big worries: more distributed work, blended workforces, AI taking jobs.
[12:05] Leaders struggle to manage distributed and cross-functional teams.
[12:35] Leading through influence, not hierarchy, requires the new power skill, empathy.
[13:13] Most leadership theories derive from the military and don’t translate well for business.
[14:37] Kelly finds more emphasis on empathy in the military than business leadership.
[00:15:19] At Accenture, the pandemic lockdown stops Kelly from announcing a new people-first approach.
[00:17:27] During the crisis, Kelly stress-tests the framework and sees employees’ needs evolve.
[00:19:40] Kelly joins Meta, excited about the possibilities of VR/AR in shaping the future of work.
[00:20:28] Tech companies have location-centric cultures so what is distributed work going to look like?
[21:20] Hands-on, Kelly tries to understand how leadership norms and careers will evolve.
[22:00] Relying on local talent will not be sufficient as engineer must be hired further afield.
[22:50] How Ready Player One expresses some of Kelly’s technology-related fears.
[23:28] Meta focuses on bringing social presence and connections into digital environments.
[24:53] Kelly is bullish about personal connections and realistic human presence in virtual space.
[26:05] Virtual environments could democratize access to learning, but there are trade-offs.
[26:45] Kelly goes to Upwork seeing the urgent need for companies to access skilled external talent.
[28:58] Over 2-3 years, Kelly predicts companies have a more blended talent mix to be more agile.
[31:16] Freelancers tend to stay competitively upskilled compared to full-time employees.
[32:14] GenAI is disrupting tasks, causing leaders to rethink how work is done and by whom.
[35:05] HR strategies do not align with Gen Zers’ desire for diversified work to have financial stability.
[37:05] Kelly advocates more dynamic “talent access” rather than “talent acquisition.”
[39:00] Using an abundant mindset rather than a scarcity ‘war for talent’-type mindset.
[41:00] Kelly highlights NASA which successfully uses external talent to solve big problems.
[42:56] Kelly believes connecting business performance with new ways of working is key for businesses survival.
[45:15] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Rather than thinking of a job when analyzing work, consider ‘what’s the problem I’m trying to solve for?’ Then what are the skills you need to achieve the project and how can AI and skilled freelancers be incorporated as part of the solution?
RESOURCES
Kelly Monahan on LinkedIn
Upwork
Upwork’s Research Institute
Care to do better Research
QUOTES (edited)
“The true power skill today of how people lead—it's not through formal structure, it is through their ability to empathize and move people to move in a direction they otherwise wouldn't.”
“Whether it's transformational leadership or servant leadership or authentic leadership, all these different theories, they really didn't translate well into the business world because so much of it was actually still from a transactional, top down driven approach.”
“Today's need, urgent need, is to help leaders begin to realize that there's really skilled outside talented, that they need to learn how to capture and create the processes and leadership styles and environment to actually bring in this talent in order to continue to navigate the turbulent times we were in.”
“I think the next wave of innovation is going to come from a much more disciplined approach of how companies are organizing their talent, in particular, and beginning to really right size the mix that they need. Skills change too quickly to continue to keep really large, full-time core up to date. It's nearly an impossible task.”
“Freelancers tend to be at the bleeding edge of their skilling. When your livelihood depends on it, you make the time to upskill and learn. We're seeing that with generative AI as being the most recent use case—freelancers are much more ahead of this technology curve.”
“How much is this [Generative AI] actually disrupting work at the task level itself, which is going to cause leaders to rethink ‘How do I actually really need to get this work done? Is it a full time employee or is it a combination of a freelancer and AI working together to get this work delivered?’”
“Leadership and talent in HR strategies have not kept pace with the way that the social contract has changed. When you ask the majority of Gen Z'ers today in particular, ‘Where do you find the more stability? Is it that one to one relationship or is it the one to many?’ The majority of Gen Z are telling us it's the one to many is where they actually feel more stable and they feel more in control of their career.”
“The majority of executives have been taught 'I'm in a war for talent'. When you have that mindset, it's very much a scarcity mindset. Because we're dealing with people and human beings, I encourage much more of a collaborative ecosystem, an abundant mindset as opposed to a scarcity mindset.”
John Hopkins PhD is Associate Professor of Supply Chain Management at Swinburne University of Technology. He is also Founder of WorkFLEX which helps people transition to new ways of working. John discusses how his academic involvement in supply chain dynamics and traffic congestion led him to investigate flexible working. He highlights the long-term sustainability of hybrid work, emphasizing its potential to reduce supply chain bottlenecks and improve work-life balance. John discusses Australia's new “Right to Disconnect” law and other countries introducing healthy work boundaries. He predicts work time reduction is the next big work topic.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:08] John starts his working career with a mechanical engineering apprenticeship.
[02:37] John studies mechanical engineering with management, focusing on supply chains.
[03:15] Learning about global business flow working at a car parts supplier.
[04:10] John’s PhD on e-commerce explores emerging virtual marketplaces.
[05:35] A UK defense project John works on uses technology to support fast decision-making.
[06:34] Researching traffic flow, supply chain challenges relate to office-centric work culture.
[07:30] John questions why people are commuting each day to the office.
[08:55] Employees’ tools are no longer city based.
[09:50] John and his partner travel around the world, love Australia and pledge to go back.
[11:40] John’s interest in technologies enabling supply chain communication and collaboration.
[12:20] John wins an innovation fellowship and uses his research on flexible working to launch WorkFLEX.
[13:30] The pandemic hits and John develops online course content to help people adapt.
[15:20] #1: Companies wanted flexible working and reacted quickly given enough motivation.
[16:23] #2: Attitudes and behaviors adapted rapidly as well.
[17:20] #3: 2024 has been a seminal year as hybrid is firmly embedded in Australian work practices.
[18:24] John finds the hybrid compromise to be a win-win.
[19:57] Most companies are not implementing hybrid well, not customizing the model.
[22:00] We need to discuss with employees what work they are doing and where = how.
[24:50] How the pandemic shone a light on the supply chain.
[25:30] John was Mr. Toilet Paper for a while in 2020!
[27:40] Research that combines supply chains and flexible working.
[30:32] Lack of effective risk management in supply chains was highlighted during the crisis.
[32:35] Cities were designed based on people flow—e.g. where water processing is needed.
[33:40] Some of the return to office push is related to investment in city infrastructure.
[36:19] Scale is the biggest issue with supply chains.
[37:10] Technologically sophisticated supply chains are patchworks of thousands of moving parts.
[38:22] We take for granted the relationships that enable us to have easy access to so much.
[39:25] Trust is essential to make the supply chain work.
[41:28] The new “Right to Disconnect” law in Australia comes into effect in August 2024.
[42:25] Before 2009, we actively needed to “connect” to access work outside office hours.
[44:44] The norm of being connected was never specified, so the law is a first healthy boundary on work practices.
[47:40] France’s similar law in 2017 did not reduce productivity and emergencies are excluded.
[48:22] Giving workers confidence to not respond and reverse unhealthy behavioral norms.
[50:04] Governments may not need to create more mandates; flexible work is already in process.
[50:38] The Right to Request Flexibility laws in Singapore and the UK.
[51:25] Next step may be the Four Day Workweek, now ‘work’ is being discussed broadly.
[52:50] The intensification of work combined with longer working hours.
[54:04] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Keep it simple. Go to the basics. Make decisions based on ‘would the customer care’?
RESOURCES
John Hopkins PhD on LinkedIn
WorkFLEX Australia
John Hopkins PhD press on the “Right to Disconnect”
QUOTES (edited)
“We need to start thinking about what the work is that the people are doing and how often they should come together based on that, not based on anything else.”
“I feel that one thing the pandemic has done is that it's allowed us to have discussions about anything to do with work.”
“Trust is a really big thing. So in terms of supply chain, you need to be able to trust that you are going to get from a supplier what you need when you need it, in the quantity that you need, and the quality that you need.”
“We've got this intensification of work because we have all these tools that do things quicker and quicker for us. We're working more hours and doing more per hour.”
“Let's not have these mandates that just say two days or three days or whatever, with no further thinking or justification behind that. That's going to upset everybody.”
“Looking at flexible and remote work and flexible work arrangements and how that can impact and benefit supply chains. Let's remember that almost every organization has a supply chain. So everybody's got some support in a supply chain somewhere along the line.”
“My big prediction in terms of what will happen next in this whole kind of field is more about work time reduction.“
“It was never written into a policy that I'm aware of where we would say, you will be available to do this, you will be available to do that. It’s a societal norm that has evolved.”
“What this law is doing, or it's certainly taking the first step towards achieving, is putting a boundary around work time and rest time.”
#fourdayworkweek #timereduction #supplychain #hybridmodel #righttodisconnect #australia #bottlenecks #flexibility #flexibleworking #congestion #trafficflow #worklifebalance
Dan Smolen is the host and executive producer of the "What's Your Work Fit?" podcast and a veteran executive recruiter. He explores how talent dynamics are evolving in the modern workplace as recruiters shift to focus on candidates' ability to adapt, learn continuously, and work collaboratively. Dan shares his insights on early talent’s new definitions of success, their emphasis on work/life balance, and preferences for flexible working. Dan describes how these changes are reshaping recruitment strategies and the critical role of empathy in modern hiring practices.Top of FormBottom of Form
TAKEAWAYS
[02:03] Dan chooses his college based on his interest in broadcasting.
[03:02] The Watergate scandal stimulates Dan’s passion for journalism at high school.
[03:44] Dan's goal was to become a news producer as he loves the news!
[04:53] An internship at Qube during college helps Dan realize broadcasting isn’t a good fit.
[06:16] Mentored by a legend in advertising, Dans focuses on marketing.
[07:31] During his early career, Dan works long hours and deals with difficult creative talent.
[09:04] Dan soon manages significant revenue for a top ad agency.
[10:56] While achieving early success, Dan’s workload impacts his well-being.
[11:57] Offered an interesting and lucrative opportunity, Dan transitions to recruiting and loves it.
[15:51] Recruitment requires deep understanding of both client needs and candidate fit.
[17:15] As clients recover from 9/11, Dan adopts a more human-centric approach to recruiting.
[19:50] LinkedIn's launch in 2003 fosters Dan's consultative recruiting approach.
[23:26] Dan goes deeper into clients' organizational issues and achieves more success.
[25:34] Situational interview techniques better match candidates with new job realities.
[27:28] Fast-paced marketplace changes require recruiting adaptable, lifelong learners.
[29:11] Companies shift from seeking specialized skills to valuing generalists willing to learn.
[32:26] Dan notices the benefits of proactive recruitment, engaging talent before roles open up.
[34:52] Early engagement with prospects helps companies build better, longer-lasting teams.
[37:17] Dan uses a "rent to own" model for testing candidate-company fit when necessary.
[39:53] Dan predicts more entrepreneurship as young people seek flexible work arrangements.
[42:54] Traditional office-based arrangements roles are less appealing to younger generations.
[43:50] Dan decides to end his recruiting career and pursue his passion for podcasting.
[46:22] Dan's relationships with talent were a key driver for his recruiting success.
[47:42] "What's Your Work Fit?" podcast explores what makes work meaningful for individuals.
[49:34] Each guest is asked, "What makes work a wonderful part of your day?"
[51:24] Dan believes people are increasingly seeking meaningful work that balances with life.
[54:03] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Your success is what you make of it. You don’t know where you’re headed. Don’t worry. Put on a good pair of shoes, strap on your backpack and enjoy the journey. Even savor the screw-ups, the mess ups and the learning opportunities!
[55:32] Dan emphasizes the importance of hobbies and diverse experiences for a fulfilling life.
[56:04] Engaging with people and creating serendipity are key to living a balanced, inspired life.
RESOURCES
Dan Smolen on LinkedIn
“What’s Your Work Fit?” podcast
Dan Smolen’s website
QUOTES
“The opportunity that we have before us is to impart to workplace entrants like our children's ages, is to say to them that your success is what you make of it. Don't let others define what it means to be successful".
"You don't know where you're headed. You don't know where it's going to lead you. You don't know the milestones along the way. Don't worry. Put on a good pair of shoes, strap on your backpack, and enjoy the journey“.
“Savor the screw ups and the mess ups and the learning opportunities, because without those, you're not going to end up in a beautiful place. You've got to have the learning that comes from pain and disappointment and longing in your career so that you grow as a person."
“They look at that and say, that's not a life. I want to have a day where I'm doing work, I'm doing things that I really enjoy, but I may want to do blended things.”
“For the first time that I can recognize, talent look at the day where work is a beautiful part of it.”
"If you don't know how to work on a team now, if you don't know how to be part of something bigger than yourself, I think it's going to be very difficult ongoing.”
Annie Dean is Vice President and Global Head of Team Anywhere at Atlassian. She oversees their Real Estate and Workplace Experience teams and Team Anywhere Lab—dedicated behavioral scientists focused on designing and validating evidence-based ways of working. Annie is responsible for Atlassian’s shift to a distributed first company. She highlights core elements of their ongoing research-driven, vetted transition supported by strong cultural values. Annie shares Atlassian’s new culture of work practices including rationalizing meetings, pursuing core work, hospitality-focused office operations, and redesigning teams, all facilitated by asynchronous methods and AI.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:43] Annie attributes her diverse interests to her liberal arts family upbringing.
[03:30] Annie is interested in what society values, how it expresses itself, and how people change it.
[04:00] At law school, Annie realizes she doesn’t want to be a lawyer while appreciating the educational benefits.
[05:05] A busy lawyer and new mother, Annie’s set up is not working for her.
[06:40] Does the system need to change or Annie? She decides it is the system.
[07:15] A seminal article questions assumptions about women not reaching leadership positions.
[08:01] Co-founding Werk, Annie helps companies assess non-traditional work opportunities.
[08:32] Pre-pandemic there is significant demand for flexible working.
[10:26] Annie finds strong interest in disrupting norms to resolve known work-related issues.
[11:05] Data is crucial to try and convince CEOs to align with and adopt new ways of working.
[12:39] From 2016 to 2020, office culture peaks, with limited progress on workplace flexibility.
[13:25] Research identifies common pain points including commuting, care-giving, and wellness.
[14:20] Access to flexibility can address widespread pain felt by ambitious high-performers.
[15:32] Pre-pandemic, technology disrupts consumer not working behaviors—resulting in insufficient will to change work practices.
[16:16] Annie cowrites an article positing that a pandemic would force adoption of remote work.
[20:05] The ease of transitioning to remote work during the pandemic proves the potential of existing technologies.
[20:35] Employees are not surprised they could work well remotely—it’s a more human way to work.
[21:10] Atlassian’s shift to distributed-first aligns with its business and the co-founders’ long-term expectations about work.
[22:04] The modern culture of work at Atlassian focuses on reducing meetings, prioritizing core work, facilitated by asynchronous methods and AI-driven norms.
[24:07] Atlassian's values are the backbone of how the company runs and inform how people treat each other.
[25:50] Sharing research and vetted practices, Atlassian helps others update their culture of work.
[27:22] Key shifts include new ways to connect, operate offices, design teams, and organize work.
[28:35] Atlassian emphasizes intentional togetherness and a hospitality approach to office use.
[29:00] Designing teams by time zones and capturing organic changes in daily work habits.
[30:28] Modern culture of work practices emphasize effective meetings and prioritize core work.
[30:50] Asynchronous methods and AI tools enable meeting rationalization and effective working.
[32:04] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Create conversations that prompt experimentation new ways of working are addictive. They feel good. People will adopt quickly because once they try, they get it.
[33:54] Clear and effective business writing is vital in a distributed work environment.
[35:35] The transition to tech-driven, distributed work is inevitable.
[36:35] Resistance to using steel in construction mirrors current resistance to work changes.
[38:22] Annie notices a technology gap for taking full advantage of modern work opportunities which easy-to-use AI can now fill.
[39:40] Annie is optimistic about technology enabling more efficient and flexible working.
RESOURCES
Annie Dean on LinkedIn
Atlassian’s website
Lessons Learned: 1000 days of distributed at Atlassian
Smart Brevity by Jim VandeHei, Mike Allen, and Roy Schwarz
QUOTES
"Data is the only thing that will convince a CEO that a change needs to happen."
“From 2012 to 2020, it was clear that technology was disrupting all our consumer behavior, and yet it wasn't disrupting our working behaviors. It was very clear to me that this different future was possible. It just didn't seem like there was enough will in the executive teams that I was working with to really make the holistic change.”
"Because the pandemic was so overwhelming and distracting in many ways, these strategic questions of what a new culture of work should look like were left behind. We are now in 2024 and able to start answering those questions.”
“We've adapted a really unique set of practices that helps us manage across time zones and manage in a distributed environment. It's those practices and our products that really carry us forward as a distributed company.”
"The office is not required to get work done though they will continue to be great community spaces to work from."
"We realize that the modern culture of work is that we replace most meetings, we know what work really matters, and we organize ourselves to pursue core work, not work about work, and each of those things is facilitated by asynchronous behaviors and AI driven norms."
"Using new practices, I think we unlock the power of technology and the Internet and AI to build a new culture of work."
"Once people try these new ways of working, they adopt them very quickly because they are addictive in that they feel really good."
Daan van Rossum is Founder and CEO of FlexOS where they are building a 21st Century work experience that enables people to learn, grow, connect, and thrive at work. He also hosts and runs the “Lead with AI” podcast, course, and community. Daan shares his tech-driven early education and jobs that underpin his emphasis on AI and integrating AI teammates and advisors effectively. He explains his proactive career steps working internationally, developing cultural understanding and tapping into ‘What If’ creative energy to achieve more fulfilling work experiences. Daan describes his learning journey and how we can all intentionally engage in meaningful work and achieve greater happiness.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:28] At 15 years old, Daan decides he prefers working to being at school.
[03:17] Daan persuades his parents and the government and gets an exception to leave school.
[04:22] Daan begins his career at an ISP help desk then an early online food delivery business.
[05:59] After producing a family ‘newspaper’, Daan’s online help page gets attention and lands him a digital media job.
[09:13] The transition to Ogilvy is motivated by a desire to land a ‘real job’!
[09:54] After moving to New York, Daan wins an internal talent competition asking ‘What If?’
[12:36] Daan makes proactive internal moves at Ogilvy to Chicago, then Singapore.
[14:00] Using his strategist skills, Daan transitions internationally learning about local cultures.
[15:15] Daan is entranced by Vietnam’s young society and optimistic, high energy.
[16:20] How Singapore developed fast integrating behavioral psychology nudges.
[16:53] Daan moves to Vietnam and discovers the two-world experiences of young employees.
[19:17] Co-founding a venture, Daan focuses on workplace happiness, fulfillment, and wellbeing through storytelling and courses.
[22:13] Daan studies wide-ranging topics relating to happiness, psychology, leadership, and more.
[23:13] The happiness-related content business is not viable in a developing market.
[23:55] The monetizable model integrating well-being content into coworking spaces.
[25:54] Key learnings about happiness to incorporate into DreamPlex's workplace offerings.
[31:16] Ensuring services align with what Gen Zers want in Vietnam.
[33:00] A 4-month pandemic lockdown in Vietnam affects Dream Plex and how they got through it.
[34:55] The challenges of hybrid working models in Vietnam compared to Singapore which was highly-digitized before 2020.
[38:35] Transitioning from agricultural to professional work settings and trust issues at work.
[42:10] The opportunity to align personal goals with organizational needs.
[43:15] The importance of intentionality in career and life decisions, especially now.
[45:30] Creating happier, productive workplaces by listening to employees and optimizing workflows.
[48:15] Self-awareness surfaces personal work preferences allowing alignment with job roles.
[52:20] Understanding how companies work reduces misunderstandings and misplaced entitlements.
[53:45] Optimizing time at work and using AI to not waste valuable hours.
[55:40] AI as your senior advisor, especially when no one else is around!
[56:15] How/what kids are learning differently now and AI’s potential future role/integration.
[58:12] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: To improve work experiences, go back to the core. What you are doing and why. Are you doing it well? Do you believe what you are doing is meaningful? Practically, empathize and listen to your team members discovering the joy and toil in their workflows to map out and solve issues together.
RESOURCES
Daan van Rossum on LinkedIn
FlexOS.work
Lead with AI podcast, course, and community
Laurie Santos
Martin Seligman books
QUOTES
"Could we ask 'What If' more? Instead of trying to focus on all these new channels trying to be innovative. Could we make this even better? So it was really more about the core of creativity and about curiosity."
"You have to find your happiness in the here and now. If you slow down and look around, all your conditions for happiness are already here…Happiness is very makeable. It's not something that either happens to you or you're born with it. It's something you determine almost 100% yourself."
"If two years from today someone makes a movie about your life, what would it be called? What would it be about? What would they showcase as your journey and what you've achieved?"
"There’s this concept called the hedonic treadmill... once you have [achieved a goal], there may be a temporary moment where you feel good. But the deeper sense of happiness has to come from something bigger."
"See AI as a coworker that first and foremost can take over all the parts of your job that you don't like doing and are not getting you closer to your goal."
"AI can start to be a senior advisor. It can be someone that co-creates with you, especially in those moments where you're on your own and need guidance or a second opinion."
Corinne Murray is Chief Strategist and Founder of Agate, an organizational transformation and workplace strategy consultancy. Corinne brings her formative experiences in commercial real estate, workplace strategy, and pre-pandemic implementations of remote and hybrid work models. She shares the benefits of empathizing with employees’ and executives’ different work experiences and explains how experiences inform culture. Corinne advocates for incremental, measurable steps to reduce workplace friction, improve performance, shift mindsets, and build momentum to effect change.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:18] Corinne studies religious studies and philosophy learning about different cultures.
[03:31] Leaving college at the end of the Great Recession, Corinne starts in real estate.
[03:53] Corinne focuses on market research and repositioning older buildings at CBRE.
[05:22] It’s déjà vu with real estate trends!
[05:34] Moving to American Express, Corinne shifts to workplace strategy and culture change.
[06:37] Amex facilitates workplace flexibility and remote working in 2013-2014.
[08:14] Corinne help employees transition to remote work addressing home setup challenges.
[10:22] The Blue Work program aims to create consistent brand experiences in all Amex offices.
[12:09] Post 2008, real estate strategy focuses on efficiency and densification.
[13:32] Workplace design and environments are adapted to different teams’ needs.
[14:10] Desk booking capabilities are implemented to reduce friction and improve flexibility.
[15:12] Reinstituting Blue Work with user-friendly changes and active listening.
[16:16] Desk booking is eliminated having caused—rather than eliminated—friction.
[17:39] Neighborhood seating naturally supports teams and flexible desk usage.
[19:15] Corinne join Gensler to explore the external advisory role.
[20:48] How UX/UI is applicable to workplace strategy.
[21:31] Joining WeWork, Corinne helps prepare the company for the Future of Work.
[24:16] The holistic employee experience extends beyond the physical space.
[25:07] The importance of good employee experiences to increase productivity.
[26:32] Frameworks for improving workplace environments through UX principles.
[28:23] Ensured basic workplace needs are met to reduce mental load and enhance productivity.
[29:58] Joining RXR Realty in February 2020, the pandemic impacts Corinne’s intended work.
[31:42] How Activity-Based Working supports different work activities.
[33:06] Corinne’s understanding of city dynamics changes her view of Central Business Districts’ viability.
[36:24] How reduced foot traffic affects commercial real estate.
[38:02] Corinne recognizes the shift in employee sentiments and work-life balance priorities.
[41:55] Executives different work experiences lead to their challenges with hybrid models.
[45:06] Millennials are driving change because of where they are in their careers and need for balance.
[52:02] Executive resistance to hybrid work can be reduced emphasizing data and gradual change.
[55:36] Corinne encourages an incremental approach to effect organizational change.
[56:20] “Hybrid work is broken” — what does Corinne mean by that?
[58:03] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Consider the dynamics of hybrid work and why it happens rather than just where it happens. Sequence and shuffle the puzzle pieces to figure out what needs to be decided first.
RESOURCES
Corinne Murray on LinkedIn
Corinne’s company Agate’s website
QUOTES (edited)
"We can't decide what a culture is. We can decide what an experience is and what that collective experience amounts to is the culture."
"We are getting stuck focusing on where things happen, not why they happen, or how they can be done better."
"Executives lived experience is so radically different than everyone else in their organization, and yet they're the ones who are dictating how everyone else should be behaving."
"If we just assume that everyone wants to be productive, even if everyone's definition of it is different, how do we get stuff out of the way so people can do more of it."
"Hybrid is broken....Our application of it is what's broken. And why it's broken is because we have been almost exclusively focused on where hybrid happens rather than what are the dynamics of hybrid work."
Tim Oldman is the CEO of Leesman and Founder of the Leesman Index - the world leader in measuring and analyzing the experiences of employees in their places of work. Tim is an expert in user experience of the built environment. He explains why we need to be considering whether work environments are supporting employees’ activities, needs, and satisfaction. Tim brings his wealth of knowledge to explore and reveal how workplaces—wherever people work—are tools for organizational performance and how we can measure that.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:25] Having always enjoyed building things, Tim studies interior design at college.
[02:51 Tim opts for a shorter course in interior design admitting he is impatient!
[03:22] Tim would love to study at university now with rapid prototyping and other advances.
[04:00] Encouraged by his uncle and tutor, Tim secures his first design job at 16.
[05:36] Tim first works in transport design, realizing the impact of design on bus stations and airports.
[07:06] The attention and detailed science in every aspect of airport design, including signage legibility.
[08:08] Tim wants to apply more and more rigor and science as his career develops.
[09:33] Tim discovers retail design is more numerically driven that he had understood earlier.
[11:27] The shift in retail emphasizing the shopper's brand experience.
[13:26] Tim's time at Vitra exposes him to extraordinary design history and expertise.
[14:20] It was a mind-boggling experience to work on the campus every day for five years!
[15:10] The user-centric design of a new distribution center makes Tim energized and very curious.
[17:22] Using transport examples to illustrate the importance of employee-centric office design.
[18:48] Developing the Leesman Index, Tim encounters naysayers to begin with.
[19:46] Initially provocative, “space is a tool in organizational performance” sticks.
[20:59] How space is a tool in organizational performance.
[21:48] Contrary to expectations, the design community initially resists the Leesman Index.
[23:07] A friend’s referral leads to the first successful deployment of the Index.
[23:36] The index reveals engineers’ preference for compressed, energetic workspaces.
[24:41] The facilities management industry becomes a key user.
[25:02] Executive leadership teams appreciate data-driven insights.
[26:43] Tim describes the Index's methodology and its impact on workplace design.
[27:50] The Leesman index measures employee activities and their satisfaction with workplace features.
[29:41] ‘Sentiment Superdrivers’ are crucial to accommodate to achieve workplace satisfaction.
[32:54] The importance of supporting individual focused work.
[33:29] The pandemic highlights the inadequacies of traditional office designs.
[35:52] Many organizations are now seeking to improve their offices to better support employee needs.
[36:44] The rise of video conferencing underscores the need for better acoustic and visual privacy.
[38:12] Organizations increasingly seek to create offices that employees genuinely want to visit.
[39:45] Tim’s new venture aims to help clients improve both remote and office-based work environments.
[42:31] Commute satisfaction correlates with the quality of the office environment.
[45:28] The shift towards higher-quality, more amenity-rich office spaces.
[47:40] Standard Chartered Bank exemplifies successful office space reduction while enhancing quality.
[49:24] Tim advocates for clearly articulating the purpose of office spaces.
[52:15] How Facilities Management can create more technologically advanced, smarter buildings.
[54:09] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Use evidence and be real, conversational, human. Find out what impacts the human experience as the human dynamic is motivational guidance. Live a day in the life of a frontline employee, experience it yourself.
RESOURCES
Tim Oldman on LinkedIn
Leesman’s website
QUOTES
"Whether it's an exhibition stand that you're building that's only up for five days, or it's a retail environment, or it's a bus station, or as we now are looking at the impact of office design on the organizational performance of the companies that we're working with.”
"I would leave work in a day feeling more energized than I arrived there in the morning. And I wanted to know why, fundamentally, I couldn't work it out. And that was really where the ideas behind Leesman and the idea of a measurement protocol started to seep through."
“It's all economics driven. Whether it's an exhibition stand that you're building that's only up for five days, or it's a retail environment, or it's a bus station, or as we now are looking at the impact of office design on the organizational performance.”
"Having thought about your day at work in the way that you have, can you tell us what you think about the following things in relation to your workplace? So, does it enable you to work productively? Are you proud of it? Do you enjoy it? Do you think it supports your organization's environmental sustainability standpoint?”
I think the bigger a workplace gets, the harder it is to satisfy everybody, because the more people are in it, the more variability there is in the work that they do and their personalities and their size and their demeanor and all the other things that make us different than individual human beings."
George Bradt is the Founder and Chair of PrimeGenesis, an executive onboarding and transition acceleration consultancy. He has authored many books including “The New Leader’s 100-day Action Plan.” George brings his international senior management experience, including witnessing and welcoming new leaders and team members into many large multinational corporations. He shares his experiences highlighting the importance of corporate cultural assimilation and relationship building for new hires. George explains when and how onboarding optimally starts and ends and how to update the process for a distributed workforce.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:30] After studying economics, George starts in sales working for an industry leader.
[04:02] George brings a successful, different approach to selling.
[04:54] George moves to Procter and Gamble, the academy company for marketing at the time.
[06:36] The success of a multi-step process for his sales team at Unilever starts George realizing what onboarding means.
[08:39] At Procter and Gamble, it was all purposeful, disciplined onboarding.
[07:05] How ongoing support and alignment are crucial for the success of new hires beyond the initial onboarding period.
[09:10] He challenges the traditional notion of onboarding being limited to the first day, week, or month.
[10:30] Deliberate efforts are necessary to build relationships and company culture in distributed work environments.
[14:00] George's Forbes article gets much feedback about corporate cultures with distributed workforces.
[17:02] Onboarding new hires effectively is essential for productivity and retention.
[20:30] Coca Cola does not have a copy strategy while George is there.
[21:50] George explains his shift towards focusing on onboarding after realizing an unmet need in the industry.
[23:11] The four main ideas of effective onboarding.
[24:35] Why a structured onboarding plan before Day One matters.
[26:00] Consider an onboarding scenario, highlighting the different sentiments and expectations.
[27:20] Building relationships before starting a new job to set a positive initial dynamic.
[28:45] How leaders can onboard new team members, aligning and accomodating them.
[30:10] He suggests companies allow new hires to conduct due diligence before officially accepting a job offer.
[32:00] Transparency and providing necessary resources are crucial from Day One.
[33:25] George shares his experience with Procter and Gamble's rigorous and specific onboarding process, including the one-page memo format.
[34:50] After six years at Procter and Gamble, George contemplates staying forever.
[38:00] George explains experiences at Coca Cola that led him to focus on onboarding.
[39:40] He notes that despite Coca Cola's history, they had a flawed onboarding process for new hires.
[41:10] The importance of understanding and co-creating the ideal future culture with your team.
[42:30] He suggests that leaders should pay more attention to onboarding and actively create personal onboarding plans for new employees.
[44:00] To support onboardin cultural rituals are important to understand.
[45:15] He emphasizes aligning new hires with the current culture before co-creating an ideal future culture.
[46:30] George points out the lack of attention to onboarding by leaders and the need for their involvement in the process.
[47:50] He concludes by highlighting the importance of focusing on culture and relationships in a hybrid work environment.
IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: As soon as possible after someone accepts their new position, before Day One on the job, get their manager to sit down with them to co-create the person’s own personal onboarding plan, particularly emphasizing culture and building relationships.
RESOURCES
George Bradt on LinkedIn
Prime Genesis website
George’s book “The New Leader’s 100-Day Action Plan”
QUOTES
"The one most important idea is you have to converge into an organization or a team before you try to evolve it. You have to become part of the team and evolve it from the inside."
“If you're onboarding somebody who's working remotely, you've got to be incredibly deliberate and invest so much time in building the relationships."
"Give them the time, give them clarity of direction, give them the resources, and then eventually give them the authority they needed to do what they needed to do."
"All that matters is relationships. Any question, any meeting, you know, the answer to any question is you're caring about building relationships."
"Acquire them in the way that's going to work going forward, accommodate them so that they can do work, assimilate them so they can work with others, and then stick with it and help them accelerate."
"Ultimately, culture is the way people behave, the way they relate, their attitudes, their values, the environment. What's different with remote work is how deliberate you have to be about relationships."
Allison Vendt is Senior Director, People Operations (Virtual First, People PMO, People Analytics) at Dropbox. She shares key reasons and research behind Dropbox’s transformation to ‘Virtual First’ starting with an office-centric culture. Allison discusses insights since the initial design phase and implementation including the change management required. She explains the ongoing evolution of the company’s virtual first approach to the Future of Work as they continue to pilot, learn, and iterate. Allison describes how they create high impact employees’ experiences with emphasis on culture, connections, and community.
TAKEAWAYS
[02:38] Allison quickly discovers law school is not for her and finds American studies fascinating.
[04:00] Allison wants to do something creative and starts working in media planning.
[04:55] Wanting more daily impact on people, Allison does a graduate degree in education.
[05:16] Allison was a student athlete herself – a swimmer.
[06:20] As an academic advisor, Allison runs orientation, tutoring, and development programs as well as coaching and counseling.
[06:48] Intrigued by Silicon Valley, while at Stanford, Allison runs a technology-integrated program for entrepreneurs.
[08:46] Parallels between high-achieving student athletes and Allison's current coworkers.
[10:19] Starting her first job in tech, Allison feels at home at once thanks to Dropbox's culture.
[11:24] While the L&D group transitions, Allison is open to experimenting and shifts role.
[13:18] Exploring how employees can own their careers through personal growth plans.
[14:08] More current focus on mentorship and skills.
[15:30] Pandemic shifts give Allison ‘Virtual First’ as her first strategy and operations project.
[16:40] Before 2020, Dropbox explores remote work while having an office-centric culture.
[18:02] The company's mission is relevant as they become intentional about reinventing what modern work looks like.
[20:44] Mindset shifts for virtual first, prioritizing human connection and adopting asynchronous by default
[22:22] Research on effective distributed work principles focused on an asynchronous by default mindset and upskilling everyone.
[23:48] Needing to reinvent everything, one work stream is dedicated to culture and community.
[24:57] Investing in cultural tethers and touchpoints that connect people and drive belonging include a neighborhood program with local relevant events.
[26:53] A mentoring program helps build weak ties, reinventing core elements for Virtual First.
[27:54] The empowering essence and elements of Dropbox’s self-serve mindset and strategy.
[29:48] Investing in training managers who play a critical role in distributed work effectiveness.
[30:52] Iterative ongoing piloting and learning with an open source Virtual First toolkit.
[32:19] Research drives the decision not to choose hybrid to avoid creating two employee experiences.
[34:06] Being transparent about choices and principles, Virtual First still wasn't for everyone, but some have returned.
[34:46] Virtual First is executed with a learning mindset, just like Dropbox builds products.
[35:26] Change management is critical for the organizational transformation.
[36:30] Onboarding is overhauled and refined—identifying synchronous and self-paced aspects.
[37:29] What are the frameworks for success? How to make Virtual First work for you.
[39:14] The potential for AI to reduce friction at work starting with AI training.
[40:40] Potential AI opportunities as behaviors and tools must go hand in hand to get more focus time and flow time.
[42:35] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Consider virtual first over hybrid. Whatever the size of your organization, you can adapt the core framework appropriately. Try a virtual first approach with one unit of your company to see if it could work. The benefits of happy productive employees outweigh the challenges.
RESOURCES
Allison Vendt on LinkedIn
Dropbox on LinkedIn
Dropbox on Instagram
Dropbox on X
QUOTES edited
“We really had to take this opportunity to reinvent what modern work looked like.”
“We wanted to do our due diligence. We came up with a set of guiding principles that four years later continue to guide the work. It was really important for us to be intentional about what we were doing to have a solid design to kick us off.”
“Virtual First means we work remotely, that's our primary orientation of work. But we do prioritize human connection. We really believe there's just no replacement for that face-to-face in-person connection.”
“We had to reinvent how we work. All the research that we had done on effective distributed work principles was leading with an asynchronous by default mindset that we had to get really good at.”
“We try to think about meetings being for debate, decision making, and discussion, not about status updates, for example, which you can easily do asynchronously.”
“We were very clear we need to reinvent everything, including looking at our culture.”
"We've done a lot of transformation around the knowledge management piece. So much about Virtual First is about empowerment -- individual empowerment."
“The role of the manager is so critical in any workplace, but certainly in a distributed environment. So we've invested a lot in manager training, making sure that all of our Virtual First principles, research that we're learning and insights that we have are getting are embedded into our manager training.”
"We deliberately elected not to adopt a hybrid model that was based on the research that we had done. Ultimately, we felt like leveraging a hybrid model was going to create two different experiences for employees."
The podcast currently has 126 episodes available.