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Come for the shifting climate stay for the complicated feelings.

Climate psychologist Leslie Davenport returns to treehugger to talk about her new book, Transforming Climate Anxiety: A Workbook for Courage, Clarity, and Collective Action. We get into climate grief, joy, anger, helplessness, nervous systems, burnout, justice, and getting better at understanding those feelings and channeling them into solidarity and restorative action.

We also talk about Leslie's new Burning Questions podcast, meeting people where they are, "healthy feelings are ones that flow," breathing the sky, hospicing systems that need to go while midwifing better ones, and the possibility that someday Tacoma restoration ecologists will be arguing about the provenance of locally appropriate avocado and coffee.

Go deeper / get outside:

Buy Leslie's book locally at King's Books - Tacoma's beloved independent bookstore, which also hosted Leslie and Suzanne Crawford O'Brien's climate-anxiety book launch. Support your local bookstore, people. King's Books — Climate Anxiety Book Launch & books

Climate Psychology and Spiritual Resilience - October 14, 6 - 7:30 p.m. at Pacific Lutheran University. Leslie joins PLU professor Suzanne Crawford O'Brien to discuss their new books, climate anxiety, resilience, and working toward a just and sustainable world. PLU — Climate Psychology and Spiritual Resilience

Come walk Wapato Hills with me - September 22, 6 - 7:30 p.m. Tacoma Tree Foundation is hosting an early-fall walk where we'll geek out on trees, restoration, the site's history, and what's coming next for this ecologically complex South Tacoma landscape. Tacoma Tree Foundation - Wapato Hills Walk

Find Treehugger at @treehuggerpod most places. Tell me what you thought, send me ideas for future episodes, join forces on Madrone Grove Adaptation & Restoration projects As always, tell a friend about the weird little restoration podcast.

Music for this episode: Jessie Marie Villa and True Blue Music / Eclipt

The Society for Ecological Restoration has released the Third Edition of the International Principles and Standards for the Practice of Ecological Restoration, and this episode is less of a book review than a reflection on what these new Standards reveal about our profession.

I explore how ecological restoration has evolved over the past two decades through the lenses of justice, human health and livelihoods, climate readiness, accountability, and communities of practice. I also share why I think the first four principles form the philosophical heart of the new edition, where I'm still wrestling with the Restorative Continuum, and what I hope future editions might look like.

Read more on the Grove & Grit Substack, and here are a few hot takes...

• Ecological restoration has grown from a conversation among ecologists into a global movement involving Indigenous Nations, communities, governments, planners, policymakers, and funders.
• The addition of the word "native" isn't just a definition change - it helps clarify ecological restoration's identity within the much broader ecosystem restoration movement.
• The Third Edition reflects a profession becoming more people-centered, climate-ready, accountable, and connected to public policy.
• Standards don't just describe good practice - they reveal what a profession values, who is participating in the conversation, and where it may be headed next.
• The future of restoration won't be shaped only by better science, but by welcoming new voices, new perspectives, and a variety of knowledge systems.

Read them critically. Celebrate what resonates. Challenge what doesn't. The best standards aren't static documents sitting on a shelf... idling in the nether regions of our computer networks... or chilling five clicks into the SER website. They're invitations into an ongoing conversation.

Society for Ecological Restoration. International Principles and Standards for the Practice of Ecological Restoration (Third Edition)

Gann, G.D., McDonald, T., Walder, B., Aronson, J., Nelson, C.R., Hallett, J.G., Guariguata, M.R., Gonzales, E.K., Hua, F., Echeverría, C., Eisenberg, C., Liu, J., Decleer, K., Barr, Z.E., Bartholomew, D.C., Best, M., Chazdon, R., Cliquet, A., Cortina-Segarra, J., Kalirai, H., MacCallum, K., Mosyaftiani, A., Pedrini, S., Young, R. and Dixon, K.W. (2026), International principles and standards for the practice of ecological restoration. Third edition. Restor Ecol, 34: e70441. https://doi.org/10.1111/rec.70441

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A special thank you to Madrone Grove Adaptation & Restoration for supporting this episode and for advancing climate-ready ecological restoration throughout the Pacific Northwest.

Opening and closing music by: Jessie Villa and The Parrisian

*Spoilers throughout. You've been warned.

Michael went to see The Mandalorian and Grogu as a lifelong Star Wars nerd and Pedro Pascal fan. He left thinking about wetland tipping points, cryosphere feedbacks, and sacrifice zones - which, for this show, tracks. This episode tours four planets as ecological field sites: a remote ice world doing load-bearing planetary work, a deliberately degraded Hutt swamp holding medicine in its margins, a neon urban underworld where ecology persists in the cracks, and a volcanic home in slow, hopeful succession. Along the way we meet characters, like Gatori, the bog-dwelling herbalist who heals Mando after a dragonsnake bite, and Grogu building a mud hut in the Nal Hutta swamp while his dad recovers is the most quietly profound act of restoration in the whole movie.

We also get into who gets to decide what a landscape becomes, why the Outer Rim has always been the sacrifice zone regardless of who's running the Senate, and what the Star Wars universe has been teaching us about ecosystem health, justice, and recovery for fifty years. The hope in this film — like the hope in restoration work — lives not in institutions, but in relationships: between a Mandalorian and his foundling, between a people and their place, between pioneer species and bare rock that is slowly becoming soil.

Star Wars Canon: Where to Learn More

Most of the creature and character detail in this episode comes from Wookieepedia — the fan-maintained Star Wars wiki. If this episode sent you down a Star Wars ecology rabbit hole, that's your next stop.

Planets: Nal Hutta, Nevarro Dagobah Hoth

Characters and Creatures: Din Djarin (Mando) Grogu Yoda Species Gatori Embo Anooba / Marrok Dragonsnake Anzellans / Babu Frik

About the Host

Michael Yadrick is an ecological restoration practitioner, creator of treehugger podcast, co-founder of Arbutus ARME, and a member of the Society for Ecological Restoration. He records on Puyallup Territory in Tacoma, Washington. For consulting work on ecological restoration, climate adaptation, and the intersection of ecosystem health with human health and livelihoods.

Reach Michael through Madrone Grove Adaptation & Restoration LLC at https://www.treehuggerpod.com, Substack and socials. This episode will be expanded in writing on Grove Grit Substack.

Music sourced from the YouTube Audio Library - Blue Deer Studio & Wahneta Meixsell

A couple years after our first conversation on artificial intelligence and ecological restoration, I sat back down with Timothy Pape and Sam Woodrich to ask: what's actually happening now? Their new research looks at how mainstream AI chatbots generate restoration plans across North American ecosystems. The results are familiar; almost too familiar. Plant native species. Remove invasive plants. Repeat. A longer show title might be - Default Prescriptions: AI, Ecology, and the Stories We Repeat.

In this follow-up conversation, I reconnect with Timothy Pape and Sam Woodrich to explore what's changed—and what hasn't. Their recent study examines how AI chatbots generate restoration prescriptions across different ecosystems, and what emerges is a kind of pattern recognition loop: vegetation-first, context-light, and strikingly similar across places that should demand very different approaches.

Woodrich, S. T., & Pape, T. (2024). Ecological restoration and artificial intelligence: Whose values inform a project? Restoration Ecology, 32(4), e14128. https://doi.org/10.1111/rec.14128

We talk about why that happens, what it says about the knowledge systems AI is trained on, and how these tools may be reinforcing the dominant narratives already present in restoration ecology. Along the way, we get into:

• why AI defaults to "plant natives and remove invasives"
• the absence of social, cultural, and economic context in restoration plans
• the limits of chatbots when it comes to asking deeper questions
• how practitioners are actually using AI in the field (for better and worse)
• the risk of "convincingly shallow" answers
• and the paradox of using resource-intensive technology to plan ecological repair

This episode sits at the intersection of ecology, technology, and values—and asks what happens when we let machines reflect our field back to us.

Timothy Pape Assistant Professor, Bowling Green State University Focus: ecological restoration, environmental studies, systems thinking

Sam Woodrich PhD Candidate, Oregon State University Focus: predator ecology, riparian systems, restoration science

Interested in restoration strategy, climate adaptation, or ecological storytelling? Reach out through Madrone Grove Adaptation & Restoration - [email protected]

Read more reflections: Grove & Grit (Substack)

Music from this episode is from YouTube Audio Library: True Coockoo, Xander Jones, The Grey Room

Listen to the treehugger lightning songs playlist

In this episode, Michael talks with environmental writer Clare Follmann about her new book Scapegoat: What the Invasive Species Story Gets Wrong (AK Press) - and yes, we are talking about invasive species again, but this time with sharper teeth. Together they question the fantasy of eradication, unpack "plastic words" like management and health, and examine how invasive species rhetoric can distract from capitalism, climate disruption, and the systems actually reshaping our landscapes. From novel ecosystems to the ethics of killing in conservation, this conversation asks restoration practitioners to be more precise, more honest, and maybe a little less trigger-happy with the war metaphors. Because in a warming world, clarity matters - and not everything that spreads is the villain.

Scapegoat: What the Invasive Species Story Gets Wrong (AK Press): https://www.akpress.org/scapegoat.html

U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service Barred Owl Management Strategy: https://www.fws.gov/project/barred-owl-management

To Kill or Not to Kill? The Controversial Plan to Kill Half a Million Barred Owls https://www.earthlawcenter.org/blog-entries/2024/12/to-kill-or-not-to-kill-the-controversial-plan-to-kill-half-a-million-barred-owls

Treehugger is independently produced. If this episode moved you, challenged you, or sharpened your thinking, consider supporting the podcast:

Venmo: @myadrickPayPal: paypal.me/myadrickCashApp: $michaelyadrickjr

You can also support by sharing the episode, leaving a review, or sending it to someone who still says "combat invasive species" with a straight face.

Intro/Outro Music by: Xander and The Grey Room

Let's explore foraging as a living, contested relationship between ecology, culture, law, and survival. Beginning with za'atar - a resilient wild thyme central to Palestinian foodways - we examine how conservation policy can criminalize cultural harvest. From there, we move briefly through international access models (UK personal-use law, Nordic everyman's rights, regulated European mushroom harvest), and closer to home: US National Parks, Washington State Parks, Seattle, and Tacoma.

We unpack how language like management, stewardship, and resource protection can obscure power, and we ground the conversation in ecological restoration, justice, livelihoods, and human health. We also highlight examples of agencies attempting to align policy with principle and how there is a new story emerging that could signal change - if we demand it. Ultimately, the question remains: Who gets to eat from the land?

Hernandez, J., & Vogt, K. A. (2020). Indigenizing Restoration: Indigenous Lands before Urban Parks. Human Biology, 92(1), 37–44. https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol92/iss1/5/

Society for Ecological Restoration. (2021). International principles and standards for the practice of ecological restoration (2nd ed.) https://www.ser.org/page/SERStandards

United Nations. (2007). United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP). https://www.un.org/development/desa/indigenouspeoples/declaration-on-the-rights-of-indigenous-peoples.html

National Park Service. (2023). Tribal leaders guide for NPS plant gathering. https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/upload/Tribal-Leaders-Guide-for-NPS-Plant-Gathering.pdf

Washington State Legislature. (2008). WAC 352-28-030: Harvest of edibles. https://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=352-28-030

Seattle Parks & Recreation Rules & Regulations General park conduct and prohibited activities (including damage or removal of park property ➝ plants, trees, soil, etc.). https://www.seattle.gov/parks/about-us/rules-and-regulations

Parks Tacoma Conduct in Parks City parks code regulating conduct on Tacoma park land including damage or removal of plants, shrubs, trees, etc. https://www.parkstacoma.gov/places/conduct-in-our-parks/

Full show notes and additional essays live on the Grove & Grit Substack https://substack.com/@grovegrit

If this episode resonated, you can support treehugger podcast through the donation links in the show notes. Your contributions help cover research, editing, hosting, and independent production.

Venmo: @myadrick | PayPal: paypal.me/myadrick | CashApp: $michaelyadrickjr

Ratings and reviews also help more people find the show.

Intro/outro music by MK2 and Grey Room, courtesy of the YouTube Audio Library

grove & grit launches with local restoration in Hilltop, Dublin Bay oyster recovery, UN World Restoration Flagships, and an ecological reckoning on war, climate, and accountability — plus two essential upcoming reads from Emma Marris and Clare Follmann.

This episode is released during the week of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's birthday, grounding restoration work in a shared ethic of collective liberation.

Tacoma Tree Foundation - Green Blocks: Hilltop A neighborhood-based urban forestry program supporting residents with tree selection, permits, delivery, and planting assistance. 🔗 https://tacomatreefoundation.org/green-blocks

January 28 Webinar - "Plants as Teachers, Messengers & Climate Partners" A Tacoma Tree Foundation webinar with Michael Yadrick on habitat care as climate adaptation and what plants reveal about heat, water, and future conditions. 🗓 January 28, 2026 | 12–1 PM (PT) 🔗 https://tacomatreefoundation.org/calendar/plants-as-teachers

Dublin Bay Oyster Reef Restoration (Ireland) The Green Ocean Foundation is restoring European flat oyster reefs in Dún Laoghaire Harbour using broodstock baskets, volunteer maintenance, and scientific monitoring with Dublin City University. 🔗 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/18/dublin-bay-oyster-reefs-restoration

UN World Restoration Flagships UNEP and FAO recognition of large-scale restoration initiatives anchored in Indigenous and local leadership, including shellfish reef recovery in Australia under the UN Decade on Ecosystem Restoration. 🔗 https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/press-release/indigenous-and-local-action-brings-back-nature-un-recognizes-three 🔗 https://www.decadeonrestoration.org/world-restoration-flagships

Environmental reporting and analysis on how war damages soil, water, air, food systems, and long-term restoration capacity, with emerging efforts to document harm for accountability and repair.

International Committee of the Red Cross — Environmental damage and armed conflict 🔗 https://international-review.icrc.org/articles/protection-natural-environment-time-armed-conflict

UNEP — Environmental risks and devastation in Gaza 🔗 https://www.unep.org/resources/report/environmental-impact-escalation-conflict-gaza-strip

Environmental Law Institute — Environmental damage in Ukraine and paths to accountability 🔗 https://www.eli.org/vibrant-environment-blog/preventing-environmental-exploitation-armed-conflict-how-ukraine

Emma Marris et al. — "Many Pasts, Many Futures" (forthcoming) A future-oriented exploration of species reshuffling, conservation values, and how restoration can prevent extinctions without clinging to a single ecological past. 🔗 https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/0BE558C6B4F353F4AC57E596205C3ABF

Clare Follmann — Scapegoat: What the Invasive Species Story Gets Wrong (AK Press, forthcoming) A sharp critique of invasive species narratives and how ecological fear stories can obscure deeper political and economic drivers of harm. 🔗 https://www.akpress.org/scapegoat.html

Music for this episode is from Grey Room "Down the Rabbit Hole" found on YouTube Audio Library.

What happens when we trace the history of our forests? Not just through trees, but through people, policy, and place? In this episode, I talk with Jennifer Ott, Executive Director of HistoryLink.org, Washington's free online encyclopedia of history. Jennifer is an environmental historian, author of Olmsted in Seattle: Creating a Park System for a Modern City, and co-author of Waterway: The Story of Seattle's Locks and Ship Canal. She brings a deep knowledge of Seattle's reshaped landscapes; it's filled tidelands, leveled hills, and rechanneled rivers, and a lifelong commitment to accessible public history.

We dig into HistoryLink's new Forest History Project, a wide-ranging effort to tell the story of Washington's forests through essays, oral histories, and educational curricula. Funded by the Washington Department of Archaeology and Historic Preservation, the project includes over a dozen new feature essays - from Indigenous land stewardship to timber company towns, the Douglas fir to the Northwest Forest Plan - as well as 15 interviews with key figures from forestry, conservation, and tribal leadership.

We talk about the relationship between ecological change and historical narrative, the legacies of environmental thinkers, and how public history can shape our understanding of climate adaptation, land stewardship, and just futures. This conversation is a reminder that forests are more than trees; they're stories, struggles, and visions of what's possible.

Forest History Project (HistoryLink): https://historylink.org/File/23334

Learn more about Jennifer Ott's work Olmsted in Seattle: Creating A Park System for a Modern City Seattle at 150: Stories of the City Through 150 Objects Waterway: The Story of Seattle's Locks and Ship Canal

This episode features music from The Grey Room / Golden Palms. Find more at: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoOTOoAbEhY-WD_XhkvJBJg Upcoming Event: Plants as Teachers

I'll be giving a talk on January 28, called Plants as Teachers, Messengers and Climate Partners: Habitat Care and Adaptation in a Warming World, hosted by Tacoma Tree Foundation. As climate change reshapes our ecosystems, ecological restorationist Michael Yadrick invites us to rethink so-called "weeds" as allies in adaptation, revealing how plants respond to stress, guide our land care decisions, and help us imagine better futures. Register here: https://tacomatreefoundation.org/calendar/plants-as-teachers

Treehugger Podcast is a labor of love. If you'd like to help me cover costs and keep episodes like this one flowing, you can support the show here:

Venmo: @myadrickPayPal: paypal.me/myadrickCashApp: $michaelyadrickjr

In this episode, Michael talks with evolutionary biologist and urban ecologist Dr. Elizabeth Carlen about how cities - shaped by war, politics, religion, and everything in between - are evolving alongside the wildlife that calls them home. Liz is an urban evolutionary biologist whose research explores how human social structures, from redlining to sacred groves, shape the genetics, behavior, and survival of city-dwelling creatures like squirrels and pigeons.

We dive into the often-overlooked ways that social histories leave their mark not just on human communities, but on the DNA of the animals that live among us. From prayer animal releases and colonial land grabs to the silent corridors of segregation - era parks, we trace how the built environment (and the power structures behind it) drive biological change.

Together, we explore how urban wildlife, often seen as out-of-place or alien, can actually reveal deep truths about the endurance of life, adaptation, and the stories we tell ourselves about nature in cities. From the sidewalks of New York to the treetops of St. Louis and the birds of Mexico City, this is a rich and fascinating conversation on the entangled evolution of people and animals in the urban jungle.

The Conversation article: War, politics and religion shape wildlife evolution in cities

Dr. Elizabeth Carlen's website: www.elizabethcarlen.com

Nature Cities review article "Legacy effects of religion, politics and war on urban evolutionary biology": https://www.nature.com/articles/s44284-025-00249-3

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Music from the episode: Alge, MK2, Lish Grooves

In this special episode, we welcome author and storyteller Martin Goodman to explore the extraordinary living story of the Bishnoi people—a community in the Western Thar Desert of India who have made protecting life, in all its forms, their deepest devotion.

Three centuries ago, 363 Bishnoi villagers led by Amrita Devi gave their lives to defend the sacred khejri trees from destruction, speaking the words still taught to Bishnoi children today: "My head for a tree is a cheap price to pay." But the Bishnoi are not just a story of sacrifice from the past—they are still here, still tending, still fighting for the beings and ecosystems that sustain us all.

Martin shares the serendipitous journey that brought him to the Bishnoi, the profound lessons he learned among them, and the creation of his new book, My Head for a Tree: The Extraordinary Story of the Bishnoi, Guardians of Nature. We talk about devotion, care as daily practice, the ecology of love, and what it means to live in relationship with the smallest creatures.

We hope this conversation reminds you: Love is not only an action. It is also a meditation. A daily practice of belonging. A vow, renewed again and again, to defend life-affirming practices.

✨ Highlights include:

• The origin story behind the term "treehugger" and why it still matters today
• The 29 rules of the Bishnoi faith: a life built around ecological care
• The emotional and spiritual legacy of Amrita Devi's sacrifice
• How the Bishnoi resist extractive forces with devotion and fierce tenderness
• Reflections on love as an ecosystem, not just an emotion
• How we can follow the Bishnoi's example without appropriating their sacred ways

🌱 Resources and Links:

📚 Buy My Head for a Tree by Martin Goodman: Bookshop.org Link

📖 Learn more about Martin Goodman, the author of twelve books of award-winning nonfiction and fiction, including Client Earth and Suffer & Survive. He is emeritus professor of Creative Writing at the University of Hull and the director of the Philip Larkin Centre for Poetry and Creative Writing. Martin lives between Los Angeles and London with his husband, environmentalist and Zen priest James Thornton.

Martin Goodman's Website Martin Goodman's Substack Letters Home

🌿 Subscribe to Grit & Grove: Grit & Grove on Substack — my essays and reflections on planetary health, justice and ecological restoration, and imagining better ecological futures.

🎶 Listen to the treehugger podcast lightning songs

🌼 About the My Head for a Tree Co-Contributors:

Ram Niwas Bishnoi Budhnagar is a leading Bishnoi activist, former leader of the Bishnoi Tiger Force, and president of the Youth Congress of Jodhpur. His work continues the Bishnoi tradition of fiercely protecting trees, animals, and ecosystems across Rajasthan and beyond.

💌 If you loved this episode... Please consider sharing it with a friend, a loved one, or someone who might be looking for new ways to imagine care and belonging. You can also support the podcast by subscribing, leaving a review, or simply telling someone, "Hey, this made me think differently about what love can look like." Your listening, your sharing, your tending — it all matters.

Thank you for being here. 🌿