In this episode, I talk with @Audrey Kwan in the Small But Mighty Agency, to tackle one of the most misunderstood growth levers in agency land: referrals. Together, they unpack how trust is the new currency in a cold-lead-saturated market—and how smart agencies are building systems around referrals, not just hoping they happen.

⏱️ Timestamps

0:00 – Why cold outreach is failing and trust is everything

2:10 – The rise of trust-based selling in the agency world

5:40 – Why personalization alone isn’t enough in 2025

7:30 – How to ask for referrals the right way

9:45 – Building “circles of trust” and systems around relationships

13:00 – Using LinkedIn as a referral engine

16:00 – Why referrals still require consistency and structure

18:00 – The real reason most agency sales systems break

20:00 – Direct vs. indirect control: a smarter way to plan sales activity

22:30 – Metrics and referral math: how to reverse engineer deal flow

25:00 – Specialization as a sales advantage (and trust shortcut)

27:30 – Strategic partnerships beyond client referrals

29:00 – What kind of agencies thrive with Dan’s model

31:00 – What needs to be in place before handing off sales

33:00 – Dan’s biggest mindset shift about agency growth

34:00 – Where to learn more about Dan’s process

🔑 What You’ll Learn in This Episode

Why cold outreach is widening the trust gap—and what to do instead

How to turn random referrals into a repeatable, systemized sales engine

Why agency founders need to own sales before they delegate it

The one sales hire mistake that can cost you six months (and how to avoid it)

How specialization accelerates trust—and shortens your sales cycle