Trying to Product

This podcast episode provides an insightful exploration of the transition from working in large technology firms to the realm of product consulting, as discussed by two seasoned product managers, Alex and Parv. The central theme revolves around the distinctive experiences and skill sets required in these contrasting environments, emphasizing the advantages and challenges that accompany each path. Alex shares his perspective on the refreshing nature of consultancy, where he engages directly with founders to develop new products from inception, thereby circumventing the bureaucratic complexities often found in larger organizations. Parv complements this discussion by highlighting the significant learning opportunities that arise from navigating the intricacies of product management in both startups and big tech, particularly in areas such as stakeholder engagement and resource allocation. Ultimately, the conversation underscores the importance of understanding personal preferences and professional aspirations when choosing between these divergent career trajectories.

Takeaways:

• Transitioning from big tech to product consulting offers a refreshing change, allowing for more direct engagement with founders and teams.
• The consultancy role often involves initial engagement with clients to identify and understand specific customer needs and problems.
• Product management at startups emphasizes agility and resourcefulness, which contrasts with the structured environment of larger tech companies.
• Building a product from scratch in a startup provides invaluable experience that hones a product manager's skills in various domains.
• In consultancy, a product manager can gain insights directly from users, enhancing their ability to make informed product decisions.
• The ability to pivot quickly in a startup environment fosters innovation and adaptability, essential traits for successful product management.

To Connect with Parv:

Twitter:https://twitter.com/ParvSondhi  

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/parvsondhi/ 

To Connect with Alex:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/alexcox245  

Email: [email protected]

The primary focus of this podcast episode is the intricate relationship between product management and the integration of artificial intelligence tools into the workflow of product managers. We explore the various AI models currently in use, such as ChatGPT and Claude, and discuss their respective merits in enhancing productivity, particularly in the realms of drafting product requirements and optimizing conversion rates. Furthermore, we delve into the implications of AI on the role of product managers, contemplating whether these advancements might ultimately lead to a reduction in the need for such positions or if they simply serve to augment existing capabilities. Our conversation also addresses the broader impact of AI on the future landscape of product management, emphasizing the necessity for PMs to adapt and embrace these technologies to remain relevant and effective.

Excited to share a bonus episode of Trying to Product.

In this episode, Parv and Alex dive deep into the art and science of roadmap planning for product managers. From aligning with company vision to prioritizing features and balancing stakeholder expectations, they uncover the strategies that ensure a product's success. Whether you're a newbie PM or a veteran in the field, this episode offers valuable takeaways to elevate your roadmap game. Tune in and chart a clearer path for your product's future!

To Connect with Parv:

Twitter:https://twitter.com/ParvSondhi  

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/parvsondhi/ 

To Connect with Alex:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/alexcox245  

Email: [email protected]

Product managers are in high demand because of their ability to spark change across a wide range of industries and business models thanks to their broad grasp of technical, commercial, and design skills. The real difficulty is choosing which one to work for.

Key Highlights

[00:03:03] Today’s topic: How to pick a company as a product manager

[00:04:14] How choosing a company has changed over the years for both Parv and Alex

[00:16:31] Key things that stand out for product manager before joining a company

[00:24:34] The pathway and the growth piece around PMs when joining a company

[00:32:40] Red flags for PMs when choosing a company

[00:38:49] Quick optimizers before choosing a company

Notable Quotes

• The biggest way to unblock myself in PDR writing is by putting something down on paper and getting started. Whatever it is, whatever you have in your mind, write it down, whether it's a paragraph or a page.
• As a mature individual, the way you think about picking the company also stems from learning more or being on the job more and figuring out what you actually enjoy.
• The scope is the breadth of responsibility you have across a particular aspect of the product.
• Learning is such a personal factor that's so different for everyone. Each one has a different definition of learning, but it's still key to your overall growth in a career.
• Your biggest chance of becoming financially free in Silicon Valley is not to work at a bank; it's typically actually to work in a late-stage startup, an IPO, or have some big exit.
• One of the things I was thinking about was that it's important when I join a company that there is an acknowledgment of what the growth looks like in your role, especially for a PM, given how ambiguous it is.
• The growth piece around PMs when joining a company is less important as much as the learning.
• When you think about where you want to work, it's not just where you're working at the moment and a few years down the road; it's eventually; how does that fit into your actual narrative of where you want to be?
• One thing I've just learned may come from a hint of the privilege there, but I feel everyone should try everything.
• As a PM, it's so varied across different types of companies and industries that the more you try, the more you figure out what works for you as a PM.
• PM is like a good jumping-off point because it allows you to see a lot of different roles and play in those areas of different roles like marketing, engineering, and design, so you’re ultimately able to learn all these different disciplines and then see if you want to keep climbing that product manager ladder, or you want to do change careers or switch things up. So it gives you much flexibility that I think many other paths don't.

To Connect with Parv:

Twitter:https://twitter.com/ParvSondhi  

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/parvsondhi/ 

To Connect with Alex:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/alexcox245  

Email: [email protected]

Where do companies position specific skill sets on their ladder? What does the career ladder look like for PMs? It's a topic that can be ambiguous, and the role of PMs can be structured differently in different companies. Level 3 PM in one company could have a completely different role or level compared to a Level 3 PM in another company, one might actually be the equivalent of an L4 or L5 in another company, but it can be difficult to know for sure.

It's important to understand your level and clearly understand the expectations and requirements of the position you are applying for. It's also important to communicate with your interviewer or recruiter early in the process to ensure that you are being considered for the appropriate level role. Mis-leveling can lead to disappointment, frustration, and wasted time for both the employee and the employer; therefore, it's crucial to have clear and open communication to avoid confusion and misalignment of expectations.

While there is no set rule for transitioning into product management, it ultimately depends on the company and its role. However, this chat may provide some insight for listeners on potential paths based on their experience. Please stay tuned!

Key Highlights

[00:00:30] This week’s topic: Levels of product management

[00:03:28] Levels of product management

[00:05:47] First level: L3

[00:08:33] Junior PM level of product management

[00:11:02] Second level: L4

[00:12:46] Third level: L5

[00:15:59] Required skill set for L4 & L5 managers

[00:17:15] Senior PM level of product management

[00:20:59] Individual Contributors and Product Managers

[00:21:39] Fourth level: L6

[00:27:44] Director level

[00:32:40] VPs and Senior VPs

[00:37:29] Recap of the levels of product management 

Notable Quotes

• From what I've heard from people in the APA programs, I’m jealous. It sounds like a lot of fun because it’s like the best of the PM life, but none of the stresses of the PM life.
• The difference between being a Level 4 and Level 5 employee is not only about years of experience but also depends on the company and how well you perform in the interview process. So, the line between Level 4 and Level 5 is very blurry.
• When you think about the roles of a Project Manager (PM) and Senior Project Manager, you may be looking at employees from Level 4 to Level 6 and potentially looking at spending years between those three levels.
• The Project Manager (PM) ladder is a bit different in the management track because PMs have a lot of leverage, so there is not a need for many PMs to handle a lot of tasks, even on large websites.
• A potential use case for Principal Project Managers is managing more critical things in terms of complexity and impact but still within the boundaries of their product or zone.
• The stress increases as you move up the ladder. It may be linear or like a stepwise function, where each new level increases the stress by a certain amount.
• As a PM, you have more guidance on direction and strategy and are confined to improving a subset of the product. However, problem statements become more ambiguous and open-ended as you move up to higher levels.
• The role of a CEO is to handle the most critical issues that others cannot solve. They are the final point of escalation for problems and are responsible for figuring out how to solve them.

Resources:

Podcast website: https://www.tryingtoproduct.com/

To Connect with Parv:

Twitter:https://twitter.com/ParvSondhi  

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/parvsondhi/ 

To Connect with Alex:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/alexcox245  

Email: [email protected]

Debunking myths around Product Management

Being a PM comes with a horde of challenges, but explaining what makes a PM great with respect to myths is even harder. What does the role not revolve around given there is no PM school? 

In today's episode, Parv and Alex debunk some common and uncommon product management myths you are likely to come across. Skewed by both skills and experience, the two burst out myths that you may be wise to consider.

Join Parv Alex as they chat about:

• As a PM you're the CEO of the products [1:16]
• Being a PM is dissimilar across different companies [5:20]
• Overlapping responsibility between a PM and UX [11:23]
• Project Vs product management [15:53]
• As a PM all you do is write requirements [20:10]
• PMs need specific certifications [24:27]
• You need PM experience to be a PM [29:04]
• As a PM you're only building what customers want

… and so much more! 

To Connect with Parv:

Twitter:https://twitter.com/ParvSondhi  

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/parvsondhi/ 

To Connect with Alex:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/alexcox245  

Email: [email protected]

Failure as a Product Manager

Failure is inevitable and is part of the process of being a product manager and it isn't fatal, but the failure to change might be. In fact, there's more to learn from failure.

In today's episode, Parv and Alex straighten out on failures as a product manager. Tune in as the two savvy product managers share insightful reflections, show you how to internalize learnings, recover from failure in style and use them as building blocks for your next project.

Join Parv and Alex as they chat about:

• What constitutes a failure to them as product manager [1:39]
• Micro and macro failures as a product manager [4:50]
• Some of the major reasons why a product manager is likely to fail [7:20]
• Valuable approaches and strategies to handling failure [22:56]
• Pulling away from the tendency to focus more on the solution rather than the actual underlying problem 
• How to bounce back highly and from failure [30:10]

… and so much more! 

To Connect with Parv:

Twitter:https://twitter.com/ParvSondhi 

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/parvsondhi/ 

To Connect with Alex:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/alexcox245 

Email: [email protected]

Quotes:

But examine what went wrong. Was it a wrong assumption? Was it the wrong problem you're focusing on? Was it just that different sorts of stakeholders needed more alignment? Just take that chance for the moment to dive deep into it, figure out where some of the mistakes happened, and then use that as a building block for your next project.

The easiest way to avoid failure is probably just to meet expectations. But it's also the saddest way to get anything done. There's an art to it.

Diving into Popular Questions about Product Managers

In today's episode, Parv and Alex walk you through some of the most popular questions about PMs that come up from you, their audience, interview panels, and in general conversations. Although PM roles can be different at different organizations, there are a lot similarities in schedules and approaches, just to mention a few aspects. Tune in as they clear up the air on the most popular questions you have about PMs. 

Join Parv and Alex as they chat about:

• A day in the life of a PM [01:13]]
• How to choose a company to be a PM at [05:56]
• Do you need technical skills as a PM [11:16]
• How to deal with meeting fatigue [15:53]
•  Best ways to craft your resume for switching into product management [18:57]
• What product managers do in their free time [22:28]

… and so much more! 

To Connect with Parv:

Twitter:https://twitter.com/ParvSondhi

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/parvsondhi/

To Connect with Alex:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/alexcox245

Email: [email protected]

Quotes 

Learn some technical skills that you can lean on, it doesn't hurt and there's no downside. If you have an opportunity, learn it. 

Why You Shouldn't Be a Product Manager

In today's episode, Alex and Parv cast some light on why you might want to stay clear of being a Product Manager. Product management is filled with pros and so much fun, but today they scrutinize the other side of the coin. Does the idea of accountability without authority or delayed gratification sit right with you? These and many more are some of the aspects you should consider as you mull over being or not being a PM.

Join Parv and Alex as they chat about:

• The nature of day-to-day unpredictability in the life of a PM [2:05]
• Costs of constant context switching [6:19]
• The immense responsibility and accountability bestowed to PMs but no real authority [10:48]
• The sense of delayed gratification [15:35]
• Loneliness and isolation as a PM [18:48]

… and so much more! 

To Connect with Parv:

Twitter:https://twitter.com/ParvSondhi  

LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/parvsondhi/  

To Connect with Alex:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/alexcox245  

Email: [email protected]  

As human beings, we can only handle so much. At times issues accumulate in our workplaces that lead to burnout. It could be prolonged working hours, lack of resources or support, and loneliness, among other causes.

These burnouts go beyond physical or emotional exhaustion and can be detrimental. For this reason, it is always important to look out for signs that indicate you are on the brink of burnout so that you can take a step back and reassess everything.

This episode covers the burnout you may encounter as a PM, their causes, and how to deal with them. In addition, we also share some of our burnout experiences, what may have caused them and how we avoided or overcame them.

Tune in to learn this and more!

[1:05] Burnouts in startups

[1:43] Burnout in large companies

[4:14] Causes of burnouts

[7:29] Rewards

[9:50] The community

[10:57] Parv's burnout

[14:10] Mismatch of organizational values and personal values

[16:48] Alex's burnout and how he went about it

[21:10] Taking a step back and reassessing

[22:54] The cost of burnout

[25:00] How Parv handled his burnout

[26:00] When it's worth risking burnout to achieve some objective

[27:49] Burnouts from the pandemic

[29:59] Keeping an eye on potential signs of burnout

• The PM role itself is just so ambiguous regarding what needs to be done.- Parv
• As product managers, one of the biggest things we have to learn is delayed gratification. There is no immediate access or reward for the type of work that you're doing. - Parv
• A lack of tangible reward at the end can sometimes make you feel as if your effort hasn't been worth it. - Parv
• As a PM, sometimes you are left alone until you're needed or until you need to specify a requirement or clarify a question that can feel lonely and can add up and eventually lead to burnout. - Parv
• It's always important to take a step back and realize if the problems you're asked to work on aligning with some of the issues you as an individual also want to address. And that sometimes can solve many other issues that stem from a stressful work environment. - Parv
• Burnout also is comorbid with depression. - Alex
• Sometimes you can go headlong into it, knowing you're probably going to burn out. But it might be worth it for whatever your goal is. - Alex
• With each win, there's a moment to celebrate, take a step back, relax, and focus on the downside of that time. - Parv
• Pandemic has led to encroachment into personal time. - Parv
• Always be aware of your mental state, whether you are on the brink of burnout, and things that might be signs of burnout.- Parv

Resources

Connect with Parv:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/ParvSondhi

Connect with Alex:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/alexcox245

Email: [email protected]

Send us Questions

Email: [email protected]