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Turning Perspective Into A Purposeful Springboard With Alice Yeh
“I think it’s really important to just follow your intuition and to break free of expectations and take risks.”
In this episode, Nick speaks with Alice Yeh, who shares powerful insights into the lessons we can learn from our childhoods, the impact of internal stories on our identity, and her unique perspective on making mistakes (and learning to laugh at yourself when you do!) Alice guides us through her own journey, transitioning from 14 years in corporate to starting her coaching business, including a life-changing “Eat, Pray, Slay” year after her first of three layoffs. She highlights the importance of challenging negative thoughts, reframing perspectives, and using affirmations for personal growth. Alice’s belief that change happens by choice or force encourages listeners to trust their intuition, take risks, and seek challenges, ultimately leading to a more fulfilling life. Discover the keys to achieving self-mastery and making risks and uncertainty more manageable.
What to listen for:
“We are the stories that we tell ourselves. We all have this inner critic telling us what we can or can’t do, how we’re not good enough, especially when we’re comparing ourselves to others. But these are all like false stories that we tell ourselves because at the core of it, I think we’re innately afraid of failure, we’re afraid of judgment, and we’re afraid of the unknown or this uncertainty.”
“I ended up taking a full year off. I traveled to Costa Rica, Bali, and Australia. I learned Spanish. I started a travel blog. I did yoga teacher training. I got Reiki certified. So this first layoff and the year-long sabbatical that I had afterwards was one of the best things that could have happened to me. The layoff was actually just a blessing in disguise. It allowed me to actually take a step back and really think about what I wanted to do with my life.”
“For some people, [understanding your intuition] can be harder than others. And I think a big part of that is to really understand yourself, get clear on what you want, and why you want those things. Change happens by choice or by force. So you have the power to change your life or your career. And I think one of the first things in terms of advice is to know what direction you’re going.”
About Alice Yeh:
Alice Yeh is a Life Fulfillment Coach for high-achieving mid-career professionals who are feeling stuck, experiencing burnout, and wondering if they’re meant for something better. She helps them overcome uncertainty and find a path forward toward the more exciting and fulfilling life they desire by letting go of the ideas of perfectionism and playing it safe. Her journey has taken her from Wall Street to Silicon Valley to startups as well as working abroad as an expat, visiting 50+ countries, getting an MBA, taking a year-long sabbatical, and living through 3 layoffs. She currently lives in San Francisco, where she enjoys practicing yoga and pilates to take advantage of that zen California dream lifestyle. Find her at AliceYehCoaching.com or @heyaliceyeh on Instagram.
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Click Here To View The Episode Transcript
Nick McGowan (00:01.11)
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show, I have Alice Yeh. Alice, how you doing?
Alice Yeh (00:11.755)
I’m great. Thanks, Nick, for having me on the show. I’m excited to be here.
Nick McGowan (00:15.286)
Absolutely, I’m excited that you’re here. I know we’re gonna get into a lot of stuff about, obviously, coaching and life coaching, and that some people can think that’s just a fucking buzzword, but you and I align pretty instantly on, it’s all about purpose. And we gotta be able to actually know what our purpose is, and to know what our purpose is, there’s a lot of stuff that we have to go through to be able to work through that. So, hey, why don’t you kick us off? Tell us what you do for a living, and what’s one thing that most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre?
Alice Yeh (00:44.407)
Yeah, so I’m a life and career fulfillment coach. I help high achieving mid-career professionals who feeling stuck, burnt out, be able to take back control of their life so they can find the freedom to live the fulfilling life that they want and the purpose that they’re seeking. And yeah, so I guess that’s a fun fact that most people don’t know about me. I had to really dig deep on this.
One thing I don’t actually talk a lot about is I actually used to play field hockey in middle school. So like seventh, eighth grade before high school. And that was about the peak of my school athletics career. And I started wondering why I don’t talk about it. And I realized I think it’s really due to this really kind of embarrassing story.
So I know I see you’re like, oh, juicy stuff here. So I am nearsighted and I needed to wear glasses back then. And I think back then you couldn’t wear glasses while playing for safety reasons. So I used to play without wearing my glasses because even though my eyesight wasn’t 20-20, I could still see enough to make out where the ball is and people, although not 100% crisp clear.
Alice Yeh (02:09.471)
Um, but during one of the games, I remember this because it’s obviously still something I remembered when I thought about why I don’t talk about this. Um, I was wide open and a team member passed me the ball and I was so excited that the field ahead of me was clear and open. No one was blocking me. There were no opposing team members trying to block or steal the ball. And I was excited that I finally got the ball. So I ran with the ball as fast as I could.
Alice Yeh (02:38.339)
to get to the goal, to score and hit the ball. And I scored, but it was only after I made the goal and I was filled with excitement. I was like, yes, I got a point. I did it. And I realized something was wrong. No one was cheering. And then I realized I was looking at my own team’s goalkeeper.
Alice Yeh (02:58.915)
So I had scored on my own team and in my excitement of getting the ball and having that open field, I was so focused on getting a point and a goal in that I failed to notice what direction I was facing. So that was really embarrassing and probably one of the reasons why I didn’t continue playing in high school. But, you know, based on the story, I think there’s a lot of lessons that could be learned here.
Nick McGowan (03:25.17)
Yeah, big time. Oh, that’s the reason why I asked the question is to be able to extract the lessons. But honestly, at the top level of it, most of the shit is just funny because you’re like, yeah, like that spot, as soon as you said it was open, I’m like, no, she went the wrong fucking direction, shit. But like, I could picture like the little kid of like, I got it.
Nick McGowan (03:51.51)
Look at that! No one’s in my way! And you’re like, fucking why isn’t everybody happy? What the fuck?
Nick McGowan (03:58.446)
Uh, you know, I think there’s a lot of kids that have stuff that happens like that and that’ll just fuck them up with. They’re like, no, I’m not going to do anything. I’m too embarrassed. And I think some of that’s also on their parents to be able to like work them through it or even like poke at them a little bit or whatever. Um, but that stuff, there is, there’s a lot that goes into it, but there’s, it’s, it’s also funny. Just, you gotta try some of that stuff. Like you, you gotta, you can’t be afraid to try those things. And.
It’s funny how some kids are like fearless. Like growing up, I played some sports. I was good at baseball, but like football I played and I was basically left back on away games. Like I was awful. And they were like, we don’t need you here. You’re just a chunk, like step away sort of thing. But I remember watching people just do what looked like crazy things, like running over people or hitting crazy home runs or whatever, not like thinking anything of it. Then there are people that got really.
Nick McGowan (04:57.81)
egotistical with it. They’re like, yeah, I did this crazy, awesome stuff. And they got locked in that. Like, think about the people that were in high school that were like the quarterback or the cheerleader or whatever. And like, that’s the high that they rode on into the 30s and 40s. And they’re still there, instead of like learning the lesson from it or trying to figure out what to do from it. So I’m glad you brought that up like right off the bat that there are lessons to be able to pull from it.
Nick McGowan (05:24.606)
And it seems like you’ve done a little research within yourself. You’re like, so I read that question and thought, what the fuck do I talk about? Oh, this story. So when you thought about that, what sort of stuff came up with you? You’re like, these are the main lessons that really stood out to me.
Alice Yeh (05:38.367)
Yeah, and I think you touched on a lot of those things. So like being able to be fearless and I have noticed that that’s something that has been a theme throughout my life of you taking risks and just being fearless in order to take risks and being not afraid to fail. And even when those failures do come about, it’s…
Alice Yeh (06:05.623)
How do you learn and bounce back from that? That’s like really important. And I think that’s one of the things that’s like really stayed with me is how you overcome those types of failures and being able to just be fearless and take those risks.
Nick McGowan (06:23.086)
Hmm. Can we also point out how you can laugh at yourself?
Alice Yeh (06:27.495)
Oh yes, very used to this. I’m a very clumsy person, so I’m constantly tripping over my own feet.
Nick McGowan (06:37.046)
Well, that’s good. Yeah. Well, I mean, even being clumsy, you have so many interactions with yourself where you probably got to a point where you just had to laugh. You know, where there’s like the perfectionist of different things that people go through, where they’re like, I can’t laugh at these things because I don’t have enough of these experiences to understand that it’s part of me and it’s okay. But being able to laugh at that stuff, like here we are, years later, years and years later, you can laugh and be like,
I went the wrong fucking direction, threw it the wrong net, whatever. But at that point, I can almost guarantee you didn’t laugh because how could you? No, you would have been like, oh fuck, how did I do that? But being able to laugh yourself is really important. And I think when we go through stuff that we’re struggling with at times, that we still have to show ourselves that bit of grace, but be able to laugh at ourselves in some ways.
Nick McGowan (07:34.722)
You know, like if you respond in a way that isn’t really helpful for you or helpful for the situation and being able to respond in such a way that can change that can be huge. I mean, what are your thoughts on that?
Alice Yeh (07:48.043)
Yeah, definitely. I think it is important to be able to laugh at yourself and treat yourself with grace. It’s okay to make mistakes and be able to learn from that. No one is perfect, even if we try to be. You’re bound to make a mistake at some point, and they can be little mistakes or they can be big mistakes.
Yeah, going through it at that point in time, I definitely was so embarrassed when I realized I’d scored on my own team. But like, yeah, looking back on that, it’s a story. And so I think when you’re able to take those moments and learn from them, but also be able to see the humor or reframe those situations as a positive, it’s definitely a way to be able to
learn more about yourself, but also move forward in life.
Nick McGowan (08:53.674)
Yeah, you’d mention the reframing and that’s really why I’m bringing that up is be able to reframe that That story that we tell so when you work with your clients to be able to do that How do you how do you suggest that they go about reframing those things? Even if it’s really tough or really tender for them to deal with it
Alice Yeh (09:11.467)
Yeah, yeah, we, I like to say that we are the stories that we tell ourselves, we all have this inner critic telling us what we can or can’t do, how we’re not good enough, especially when we’re comparing ourselves to others. In my case, I am a high achiever and I have a very perfectionist tendency where things are never good enough. But these are these are all like false stories that we tell ourselves because at the
of it, I think we’re innately, we’re afraid of failure, we’re afraid of judgment, and we’re afraid of the unknown or this uncertainty. And so these fears are really uncomfortable and our minds are essentially trying to protect us from those fears. And to change that mindset, I think there’s quite a few things that I do. I think for dealing with that,
the stories that you tell ourselves. There’s a technique that I try to do, which is something called catch, challenge, change. Whenever I catch myself thinking a negative thought, I challenge it by thinking about the things I’m good at or the things I can do, essentially like reversing that negative thought or why that initial thought is actually wrong. And then I change it by reframing it in a more positive angle. So we’ve talked.
We talked about how reframing is really important. So changing that negative thought to reframing it in a more positive angle or something that I like to use is turning it into an affirmation. For me, I’ve found affirmations to be pretty powerful in changing the way you think about yourself. And so I like to use that as something, when I want to be some…
you know, an aspirational thought or something that I’m going through, whether it’s through journaling or putting up a post-it note of this affirmation, so I see it every day. And over time, it becomes a part of you and it’s ingrained in your thoughts. So the idea is to take those affirmations and make it a part of you so that you start to think that and it becomes second nature to you.
Nick McGowan (11:38.59)
I think affirmations can be helpful for people, but I also like to call out specifically in life, but on this show, I like to call out the things that some people that I’ve heard before where they’re like, well, those are just fucking happy words. I don’t need your happy words. And it’s interesting because I think some people will just think that affirmations are just happy words. And like I’d mentioned to you before we even hit record, like I’ve tried the journaling thing before. It’s not really my jam.
Nick McGowan (12:05.462)
but I’m a musician and I write lyrics and that’s my jam. And that’s like the shift of it. So when people will say that some affirmations are just happy words, I don’t need your happy words, or other people that are like, I need more of those happy words because the more that I can ingest, the more that I can process and the more that I can understand. And like you’re saying, it’s a matter of being able to see those things to the point where they just become a part of you. And it’s really understanding the thing that does that for you, whether that be journaling or.
affirmations or meditating or going into one of those break rooms where you just break shit for like two hours. Like whatever that is, you know, but I think there’s a process to be able to figure that stuff out. And a lot of people don’t, don’t always give themselves the grace or the strength to be able to go through and just deal with the process. Cause you got to get through the pain of that. What are your thoughts on that?
Alice Yeh (12:56.299)
Yeah, I agree. And I do I agree that some affirmations may work for some people and may not work for others. I think it’s definitely an experiment you have to do. You test a lot of different things, like see what works for you. What what makes you start to see the positivity? And it does take time. It’s not something that happens overnight. I know we’re all like really busy and.
Alice Yeh (13:21.547)
I’m really excited to get to the results or impatient, but these things do take time. I know I’m still working through things on my own, and I know everybody is at some point. So yeah, it’s to have that grace with yourself and be okay to learn about yourself through this journey.
Nick McGowan (13:45.678)
Yeah, I’m glad that you point out that you’re still working through stuff. I don’t trust people that aren’t working through things. And I think it was Glennon Doyle that had said, if somebody doesn’t believe that they have mental health issues, there’s something wrong. Like everybody has something going on. Even if it’s not a full fledged issue, there’s still things that are happening. Like trauma is a part of everybody’s experience. And that doesn’t mean that you were in some crazy car fire.
Nick McGowan (14:13.79)
It could have just meant that somebody did something really fast and quickly that disrupted your nervous system. And being able to actually work through that stuff can be that process, but figuring out like what works for you, what doesn’t work for you. I know there are times where I’ve thought like the real shitty thoughts, like a shitty thought in the sense of like, well, those affirmations are just fucking buzzwords and happy words. And it’s like, well, why do you think that? Well, because I don’t want it to be true. Or I don’t want to have to just ingest these things or whatever.
Nick McGowan (14:42.57)
and being able to figure out what actually works for you. And sometimes it takes that work to be able to do that. So let’s talk about the work and like how you got to the point where you’re at now, because you don’t go to college and become a life coach. It’s not like a course that you take where you can get out and be an accountant or something like that. It’s typically something that has spurred up that has been inside of you. So let’s take a bit of a step back. Tell us what formed you to become who you are today.
Alice Yeh (15:01.152)
I’m sorry.
Alice Yeh (15:11.347)
Yeah, so I would say that how I, the journey to become a life coach. So I’ve spent 14 years in the corporate world working in a variety of industries from finance to tech to startups. This also included working abroad internationally. So I’ve got a chance to work in Hong Kong, London, Singapore, as well as here in the US and New York and now in San Francisco, where I live.
And through all of these experiences, actually let me take a step back here. So yeah, so I would say that, yeah, so through all of these experiences, I have felt that my passion for mentoring and helping people.
to feel empowered about their work, decisions, the career paths they were doing. This was the aspect that I always enjoyed the most through all of my roles in my corporate career. And this last year around this time, actually, I was starting to think about what I wanted to do next because I was feeling stuck, unhappy, unfulfilled in my last corporate role. Not an uncommon feeling. I think most people are not happy with their jobs.
Alice Yeh (16:28.731)
But I didn’t know what I wanted to do next. And I had gone through this cycle a couple of times where you jump from a role to another role. It’s okay, it’s good for a while. But then eventually you outgrow them. And I could see that all the paths ahead of me didn’t really look appealing. So I actually started working with a coach of my own to kind of help me figure out what to do next and get me feeling unstuck.
And on the other side of this, I’ve always wanted to start my own business, but I thought I needed like a really amazing, innovative idea that no one else had thought of before. And especially living here in San Francisco, that’s a really common mindset people have. But through my work with my coach, I realized this was really an incorrect assumption and belief that you have to have this new only a new idea to start a business. So.
Alice Yeh (17:23.935)
I realized that I could marry these two things and turn my passion into mentoring and helping people into starting my own coaching business. And it’s funny how life in the world works because when I made this decision last year to start getting certified as a coach and build my own practice, I was laid off a couple weeks later.
So I took it as a sign from the universe to go all in on this. And that’s kind of how I ended up here now as a coach. Yeah, so that’s kind of how I got here as a coach. The layoff, that was actually my third layoff in my corporate career. And there’s a lot I can say about getting laid off and how those experiences have changed me. So.
So yeah, if you can go into that or not. Yeah. So I would say my first layoff was probably the most significant of the three. It was my very first layoff. And how it led up to that point was after business school, I went to work at Google here in San Francisco. And I have only really started.
Nick McGowan (18:19.758)
I mean, you’re there, keep going. Yeah.
Alice Yeh (18:45.923)
talking about this a little bit more recently because it was something I was ashamed of back then. But when I was working at Google, I never got promoted. I was there for four years. And no matter how hard I tried, no matter how hard I worked, I could never get, I couldn’t get promoted. I tried working harder, longer hours, sometimes nights, sometimes weekends. I took on additional projects to prove myself, did personal development classes, but it was never enough.
and I couldn’t figure out why. And I didn’t feel like I was enough. I felt like I was undervalued and unappreciated at work. And then after four years of busting my ass off, I got laid off. And this first layoff was really demoralizing because I’d been working my ass off and I was shocked. I was so pissed, of course. And I had no idea what I wanted to do next because my entire life,
unspoken path of what you’re supposed to do. I checked all the boxes, get good grades, go to a good school, get a good job, and then get paid. But I did all these things and now I was jobless. I didn’t know what to do. And I know a lot of people can relate to these feelings of like working hard but not getting recognized or a lot of the layouts that have happened recently. So definitely been there. And…
What this experience taught me is that, so after I was laid off, I decided I wanted to take some time off because obviously I was burnt out and I wanted to take some time to recover and kind of just learn more about myself and do all these things that I never had time for. So I planned this self-discovery journey that I called Eat, Pray, Slay instead of Eat, Pray, Love to do all these things that I wanted to do.
Nick McGowan (20:38.986)
Nice.
Alice Yeh (20:42.671)
I ended up taking a full year off. I traveled to Costa Rica, Bali, Australia. I learned Spanish. I started a travel blog. I did yoga teacher training. I got Reiki certified. So this first layoff and the year-long sabbatical that I had afterwards was one of the best things that could have happened to me. The layoff was actually just a blessing in disguise
it allowed me to actually take a step back and really think about what I wanted to do with my life, what I do, all these things that I never had time for, and really just reflect and learn and understand myself better. So this year off was just one of the best things that could have happened to me.
Nick McGowan (21:33.698)
there’s a lot in that, you know, that could be, it could be a thing that we could say where you had dissociated from it and said, well, fuck it, I’m going to go party and go do all these things I wanted to do. And even if that was a piece of what you wanted to do, you’ve still done the work within that. But to take a step even further back, I think a lot of people and you’d said this, most people have an issue with the job that they’re in because they have checked those boxes. Like you said, they went to school.
Nick McGowan (22:03.382)
They got a piece of paper. That piece of paper said, you can get this type of job. They got him that job. They got married or whatever, and they had a house with two and a half kids. The half is always fucking weird, but they had all those things, and they’re like, what the fuck am I doing? What is this? And some people just continue to live in that instead of sometimes having the ball moved for you and going, well, you’d no longer work here, now you gotta figure your shit out, or being in a spot where you can do that.
Nick McGowan (22:32.17)
And that can be really tough for people to figure out. I was having a conversation recently with my coach about how people don’t like to ask themselves those really, really deep, dark questions because what if everything has to change? What if, what if everything they’ve done has been wrong or not the right thing for them? And it can be a really tough pill to swallow in that moment and easy for us to be like, yeah, well, what if, yeah, fuck it, what if?
Nick McGowan (22:59.674)
You never, you don’t know. It could be, it could not be. But being in that spot where you get laid off and have to do something, I’ve been there before. I got laid off three months into a marriage. So telling my now ex-wife, and it wasn’t because of that, other reasons, but telling her at that point like, hey, I got laid off. Do you wanna get Thai for dinner tonight? Or you think it’s sushi or like barbecue? And she’s like, fucking step back. What did you say? I’m like, I gotta figure this thing out.
But being in that spot where you can then make that decision of like, well, what do I want to do next? How do I want to go about this? I think people can make that decision when they’re in their job. And that’s the thing that a lot of people will talk about. You need a side hustle. Like you got to grind, you got to hustle, and you got to have some sort of side deal. I believe in that, but I also believe that you need to figure out what is it that’s making you move that’s pulling you like from your rib cage that you’re just like, I want to do this thing. Like some hobbies will become.
Nick McGowan (23:58.614)
Businesses some will just be hobbies some will just stay like that So for you to be able to take that whole big journey that you took and be in the spot You are now like good on you. What lessons did you learn from that looking back in this conversation now that you go? Well, you know what really stood out to me was?
Alice Yeh (24:00.951)
Right. Yeah.
Alice Yeh (24:19.083)
Yeah, and I think you touched on a lot of things that are really important. This whole experience of getting laid off to focus on myself, I tell people change happens by choice or by force. You’re either you make the decision to make the change that you want or you’re forced to, like getting laid off. And so…
this whole experience, that whole experience made me realize how much I valued freedom and independence and the whole concept of work to live, not live to work, or sorry, yes, work to live, not live to work, has stayed with me. And yeah, and I think there is more to life than just work, even though it does take a huge part of our daily life. It is about finding fulfillment in aspects of your life, not just your career.
Alice Yeh (25:14.755)
And we spend so much of our time on a career. It is crazy to me how much people are willing to put up with, like the kind of shit they put up with just to get that paycheck. And so I would say the lessons that I learned from the experience of getting laid off and then taking this year off that I incorporate into my coaching is to really follow your intuition. And when I decided to take
Nick McGowan (25:23.21)
Yeah, the traumas.
Yeah.
Alice Yeh (25:44.307)
my ear off, everyone had told me it would be a mistake because at that time you’re not supposed to have any gaps in your resume, you can’t take time off. And I did worry and think about it, but I was like, fuck it, I’m just gonna, I’m gonna trust my gut here. I want to do all these things I want to do. So I embraced the unknown and decided I would just figure it out all out later. And you know what, I was able to find another job when I was ready to return to workforce. So it wasn’t the end of the world.
Nick McGowan (25:58.102)
Yeah.
Alice Yeh (26:12.747)
So I think it’s really important to just follow your intuition and to break free of those expectations and take risks. And I mentioned earlier in the episode how taking those risks is something that I’ve been consciously doing in my life, to learn more about myself and learn from the mistakes and when I fail. And if I hadn’t followed my intuition to kind of take that year off, I definitely wouldn’t be who I am today.
I wouldn’t have learned all those things I don’t learn about myself. And I sought out opportunities to challenge myself to step out of my comfort zone. And so I think those are like really important lessons is to really challenge yourself, step out of your comfort zone, learn from those mistakes and failures, and ultimately be resilient to bounce back once you do experience that. Having lived through that first layoff.
Alice Yeh (27:11.799)
The second and third layoff were so much easier to handle because I had gone through it already. And so I’d been able to kind of build that muscle for resilience.
Nick McGowan (27:22.55)
See, that’s one of the things that I really love about the conversations I have on this podcast is I believe you can learn from other people’s experiences. Some people and most of the times, I think a lot of us have to like bash our head into the wall and be like, all right, the pain hurt me. So now I get it. Even if somebody told me like you shouldn’t go that route or whatever, but to trust your instinct, trust your intuition and move on that, you may learn from other people’s experiences. Like I hope somebody listens to this and goes.
Cool, note to self, I’m gonna go do that. I would hope that people will listen to it and go, hey, I’m not alone with this. But you have to trust your intuition, you have to trust your gut on this, and if you’re not sure how to listen and to feel into that, it’s a matter of actually feeling what moves you and what starts to pull at you and what will nag on you and what will excite you in those things, even excite in the sense of, we’ll scare the shit out of you. But think about reframing.
Alice Yeh (28:18.219)
Yes.
Nick McGowan (28:20.438)
Like somebody tells you and probably some family member or friend who just loves you and wants to take care and wants you to do the right thing. They’re like, you don’t want that because you don’t want to have a gap in your resume and blah, blah. But then a year later, you get to go say, look, fuck you. You’re not interviewing me and I’m interviewing you. I just spent an entire year doing exactly what I want. And I’m here sitting with you. That’s a whole different story than being like I got laid off. I sat on the couch and watched a bunch of Netflix for six months. Bastly different. But.
Nick McGowan (28:49.046)
following that intuition can be tough for people to do because of the things that have led them to where they’re at. The shoulds in life, like you should do this. You should get through this stuff. And I love that you touched on how some of the crazy shit that you deal with at work is just nonsense. Like the traumas that you experience, the belittling, the, all of it. Like if it was a relationship, you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t be in that relationship anymore or most people wouldn’t.
Alice Yeh (28:57.143)
Yeah. Well.
Nick McGowan (29:17.79)
you know, maybe they would, it depends on how they, how they deal with that and what they work through with that sort of stuff. So I’m glad that you pointed that out. And for the people that are in that spot, you’re trying to figure out, do I jump out of my career? Maybe, maybe not. You got to ask yourself those tough questions and figure out what do you do. And I think you do need to have a little bit of logic, but you also need to have a little bit of that kind of spiritual magic in a sense that like, hey, any fucking thing can happen. Anything can be possible. But
Alice Yeh (29:45.845)
Definitely.
Nick McGowan (29:47.462)
you should still be smart about it. If you’re like, I have $3 to my name, I’m gonna put myself in $40,000 worth of debt to try to do something, like maybe, it might be a good call for you, but it might not be. So seeking counsel within yourself intuition-wise and seeking counsel outside of that can be huge, but for those people that are going through that sort of stuff and trying to figure out how they do this, what’s your advice for somebody that’s on their path towards self-mastery?
Alice Yeh (30:14.131)
Yeah, I think it’s a lot of what you said of, you know, thinking, understanding your intuition. And for some people that can be harder than others. And I think a big part of that is to really understand yourself, get clear on like what you want, and why do you want those things. I mentioned that, you know, choice has
change happens by choice or by force. So you have the power to change your life or your career. And I think one of the first things in terms of advice is to know what direction you’re going. You know, I think going back to that story, my field hockey game story, if I had taken just one second to realize what direction I was going, the result could have been totally different. I would have noticed I was facing the wrong way.
Nick McGowan (31:07.338)
Yeah. You could have gone pro. You never know.
Alice Yeh (31:14.872)
I never know. So yeah, so if you don’t know the direction you’re going, how can you achieve self mastery? And in order to know what direction you’re going, you have to get clear on what you want. And it’s okay if those goals change as you change in life. It’s okay to evolve. Like, it’s crazy. Some people think they have to want the same things they wanted when they’re fresh out of college. Like, life happens. Things change.
So really understanding yourself of what you want and why you want it. I think this is really important is to, why do you want this goal or this, whatever it is you’re working towards in terms of the self mastery? Why is it important to you? Does it align with your values and your beliefs? There has to be an internal drive or an intrinsic motivator because it’s so easy to give yourself.
an excuse to not follow through or you get discouraged as soon as you encounter a setback. So you have to really dig deep to find this why and find ways to remind yourself of it. And part of that you can think about the rewards, how it will positively impact you in your life. And also the flip side, like what happens if you don’t follow through? What are you missing out on?
I think in terms of advice, like when you know where you’re going and why, it is easier to push and challenge yourself to take those risks because if you don’t, then you’re just not sure what to do and then you, it’s not as easy to take those risks and failing will seem really scary if you don’t know where you’re going. But when you do, then it’s less scary because you know that each experience is a learning experience and you can grow and work towards that self mastery.
Nick McGowan (33:13.046)
And everybody handles all that differently. And that might look different for different people. So to be able to question ourselves with that and figure out what direction are we going, even if it’s a base level of, I’m going to continue to grow, that’s good. If you know exactly where you wanna get to, beautiful. I think we also need to understand that path will probably not look the exact way that you think it’s going to be because there are other factors involved and other things are involved.
Nick McGowan (33:39.542)
but understanding that we are on that constant growth path and given ourselves grace to be able to do that and just not giving up when shit gets tough, but also following our intuition. Like we’re saying, if something’s really tough and it’s like pushing you away from something, at least being able to be self-aware with that to see like, Hey, do I need to go back to that job and get really pissed that I was there? Or just let that be the layoff that changes everything for me. So Alice, I appreciate you being on.
and share on everything you’ve shared today. Before I let you go, where can people find you and where can they connect with you?
Alice Yeh (34:13.631)
Yeah, so people can follow me or find me on Instagram at heyaliceye. But to learn more about my coaching and services, you can find me at aliceyecoaching.com.
Nick McGowan (34:27.222)
Perfect. And I’ll have all that stuff in the show notes too. Again, thank you so much for your time, Alice. Appreciate it.
Alice Yeh (34:31.907)
Thanks, thank you so much for having me.
https://youtu.be/7VSurZ952Dw
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By Nick McGowan“I think it’s really important to just follow your intuition and to break free of expectations and take risks.”
In this episode, Nick speaks with Alice Yeh, who shares powerful insights into the lessons we can learn from our childhoods, the impact of internal stories on our identity, and her unique perspective on making mistakes (and learning to laugh at yourself when you do!) Alice guides us through her own journey, transitioning from 14 years in corporate to starting her coaching business, including a life-changing “Eat, Pray, Slay” year after her first of three layoffs. She highlights the importance of challenging negative thoughts, reframing perspectives, and using affirmations for personal growth. Alice’s belief that change happens by choice or force encourages listeners to trust their intuition, take risks, and seek challenges, ultimately leading to a more fulfilling life. Discover the keys to achieving self-mastery and making risks and uncertainty more manageable.
What to listen for:
“We are the stories that we tell ourselves. We all have this inner critic telling us what we can or can’t do, how we’re not good enough, especially when we’re comparing ourselves to others. But these are all like false stories that we tell ourselves because at the core of it, I think we’re innately afraid of failure, we’re afraid of judgment, and we’re afraid of the unknown or this uncertainty.”
“I ended up taking a full year off. I traveled to Costa Rica, Bali, and Australia. I learned Spanish. I started a travel blog. I did yoga teacher training. I got Reiki certified. So this first layoff and the year-long sabbatical that I had afterwards was one of the best things that could have happened to me. The layoff was actually just a blessing in disguise. It allowed me to actually take a step back and really think about what I wanted to do with my life.”
“For some people, [understanding your intuition] can be harder than others. And I think a big part of that is to really understand yourself, get clear on what you want, and why you want those things. Change happens by choice or by force. So you have the power to change your life or your career. And I think one of the first things in terms of advice is to know what direction you’re going.”
About Alice Yeh:
Alice Yeh is a Life Fulfillment Coach for high-achieving mid-career professionals who are feeling stuck, experiencing burnout, and wondering if they’re meant for something better. She helps them overcome uncertainty and find a path forward toward the more exciting and fulfilling life they desire by letting go of the ideas of perfectionism and playing it safe. Her journey has taken her from Wall Street to Silicon Valley to startups as well as working abroad as an expat, visiting 50+ countries, getting an MBA, taking a year-long sabbatical, and living through 3 layoffs. She currently lives in San Francisco, where she enjoys practicing yoga and pilates to take advantage of that zen California dream lifestyle. Find her at AliceYehCoaching.com or @heyaliceyeh on Instagram.
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Click Here To View The Episode Transcript
Nick McGowan (00:01.11)
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show, I have Alice Yeh. Alice, how you doing?
Alice Yeh (00:11.755)
I’m great. Thanks, Nick, for having me on the show. I’m excited to be here.
Nick McGowan (00:15.286)
Absolutely, I’m excited that you’re here. I know we’re gonna get into a lot of stuff about, obviously, coaching and life coaching, and that some people can think that’s just a fucking buzzword, but you and I align pretty instantly on, it’s all about purpose. And we gotta be able to actually know what our purpose is, and to know what our purpose is, there’s a lot of stuff that we have to go through to be able to work through that. So, hey, why don’t you kick us off? Tell us what you do for a living, and what’s one thing that most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre?
Alice Yeh (00:44.407)
Yeah, so I’m a life and career fulfillment coach. I help high achieving mid-career professionals who feeling stuck, burnt out, be able to take back control of their life so they can find the freedom to live the fulfilling life that they want and the purpose that they’re seeking. And yeah, so I guess that’s a fun fact that most people don’t know about me. I had to really dig deep on this.
One thing I don’t actually talk a lot about is I actually used to play field hockey in middle school. So like seventh, eighth grade before high school. And that was about the peak of my school athletics career. And I started wondering why I don’t talk about it. And I realized I think it’s really due to this really kind of embarrassing story.
So I know I see you’re like, oh, juicy stuff here. So I am nearsighted and I needed to wear glasses back then. And I think back then you couldn’t wear glasses while playing for safety reasons. So I used to play without wearing my glasses because even though my eyesight wasn’t 20-20, I could still see enough to make out where the ball is and people, although not 100% crisp clear.
Alice Yeh (02:09.471)
Um, but during one of the games, I remember this because it’s obviously still something I remembered when I thought about why I don’t talk about this. Um, I was wide open and a team member passed me the ball and I was so excited that the field ahead of me was clear and open. No one was blocking me. There were no opposing team members trying to block or steal the ball. And I was excited that I finally got the ball. So I ran with the ball as fast as I could.
Alice Yeh (02:38.339)
to get to the goal, to score and hit the ball. And I scored, but it was only after I made the goal and I was filled with excitement. I was like, yes, I got a point. I did it. And I realized something was wrong. No one was cheering. And then I realized I was looking at my own team’s goalkeeper.
Alice Yeh (02:58.915)
So I had scored on my own team and in my excitement of getting the ball and having that open field, I was so focused on getting a point and a goal in that I failed to notice what direction I was facing. So that was really embarrassing and probably one of the reasons why I didn’t continue playing in high school. But, you know, based on the story, I think there’s a lot of lessons that could be learned here.
Nick McGowan (03:25.17)
Yeah, big time. Oh, that’s the reason why I asked the question is to be able to extract the lessons. But honestly, at the top level of it, most of the shit is just funny because you’re like, yeah, like that spot, as soon as you said it was open, I’m like, no, she went the wrong fucking direction, shit. But like, I could picture like the little kid of like, I got it.
Nick McGowan (03:51.51)
Look at that! No one’s in my way! And you’re like, fucking why isn’t everybody happy? What the fuck?
Nick McGowan (03:58.446)
Uh, you know, I think there’s a lot of kids that have stuff that happens like that and that’ll just fuck them up with. They’re like, no, I’m not going to do anything. I’m too embarrassed. And I think some of that’s also on their parents to be able to like work them through it or even like poke at them a little bit or whatever. Um, but that stuff, there is, there’s a lot that goes into it, but there’s, it’s, it’s also funny. Just, you gotta try some of that stuff. Like you, you gotta, you can’t be afraid to try those things. And.
It’s funny how some kids are like fearless. Like growing up, I played some sports. I was good at baseball, but like football I played and I was basically left back on away games. Like I was awful. And they were like, we don’t need you here. You’re just a chunk, like step away sort of thing. But I remember watching people just do what looked like crazy things, like running over people or hitting crazy home runs or whatever, not like thinking anything of it. Then there are people that got really.
Nick McGowan (04:57.81)
egotistical with it. They’re like, yeah, I did this crazy, awesome stuff. And they got locked in that. Like, think about the people that were in high school that were like the quarterback or the cheerleader or whatever. And like, that’s the high that they rode on into the 30s and 40s. And they’re still there, instead of like learning the lesson from it or trying to figure out what to do from it. So I’m glad you brought that up like right off the bat that there are lessons to be able to pull from it.
Nick McGowan (05:24.606)
And it seems like you’ve done a little research within yourself. You’re like, so I read that question and thought, what the fuck do I talk about? Oh, this story. So when you thought about that, what sort of stuff came up with you? You’re like, these are the main lessons that really stood out to me.
Alice Yeh (05:38.367)
Yeah, and I think you touched on a lot of those things. So like being able to be fearless and I have noticed that that’s something that has been a theme throughout my life of you taking risks and just being fearless in order to take risks and being not afraid to fail. And even when those failures do come about, it’s…
Alice Yeh (06:05.623)
How do you learn and bounce back from that? That’s like really important. And I think that’s one of the things that’s like really stayed with me is how you overcome those types of failures and being able to just be fearless and take those risks.
Nick McGowan (06:23.086)
Hmm. Can we also point out how you can laugh at yourself?
Alice Yeh (06:27.495)
Oh yes, very used to this. I’m a very clumsy person, so I’m constantly tripping over my own feet.
Nick McGowan (06:37.046)
Well, that’s good. Yeah. Well, I mean, even being clumsy, you have so many interactions with yourself where you probably got to a point where you just had to laugh. You know, where there’s like the perfectionist of different things that people go through, where they’re like, I can’t laugh at these things because I don’t have enough of these experiences to understand that it’s part of me and it’s okay. But being able to laugh at that stuff, like here we are, years later, years and years later, you can laugh and be like,
I went the wrong fucking direction, threw it the wrong net, whatever. But at that point, I can almost guarantee you didn’t laugh because how could you? No, you would have been like, oh fuck, how did I do that? But being able to laugh yourself is really important. And I think when we go through stuff that we’re struggling with at times, that we still have to show ourselves that bit of grace, but be able to laugh at ourselves in some ways.
Nick McGowan (07:34.722)
You know, like if you respond in a way that isn’t really helpful for you or helpful for the situation and being able to respond in such a way that can change that can be huge. I mean, what are your thoughts on that?
Alice Yeh (07:48.043)
Yeah, definitely. I think it is important to be able to laugh at yourself and treat yourself with grace. It’s okay to make mistakes and be able to learn from that. No one is perfect, even if we try to be. You’re bound to make a mistake at some point, and they can be little mistakes or they can be big mistakes.
Yeah, going through it at that point in time, I definitely was so embarrassed when I realized I’d scored on my own team. But like, yeah, looking back on that, it’s a story. And so I think when you’re able to take those moments and learn from them, but also be able to see the humor or reframe those situations as a positive, it’s definitely a way to be able to
learn more about yourself, but also move forward in life.
Nick McGowan (08:53.674)
Yeah, you’d mention the reframing and that’s really why I’m bringing that up is be able to reframe that That story that we tell so when you work with your clients to be able to do that How do you how do you suggest that they go about reframing those things? Even if it’s really tough or really tender for them to deal with it
Alice Yeh (09:11.467)
Yeah, yeah, we, I like to say that we are the stories that we tell ourselves, we all have this inner critic telling us what we can or can’t do, how we’re not good enough, especially when we’re comparing ourselves to others. In my case, I am a high achiever and I have a very perfectionist tendency where things are never good enough. But these are these are all like false stories that we tell ourselves because at the
of it, I think we’re innately, we’re afraid of failure, we’re afraid of judgment, and we’re afraid of the unknown or this uncertainty. And so these fears are really uncomfortable and our minds are essentially trying to protect us from those fears. And to change that mindset, I think there’s quite a few things that I do. I think for dealing with that,
the stories that you tell ourselves. There’s a technique that I try to do, which is something called catch, challenge, change. Whenever I catch myself thinking a negative thought, I challenge it by thinking about the things I’m good at or the things I can do, essentially like reversing that negative thought or why that initial thought is actually wrong. And then I change it by reframing it in a more positive angle. So we’ve talked.
We talked about how reframing is really important. So changing that negative thought to reframing it in a more positive angle or something that I like to use is turning it into an affirmation. For me, I’ve found affirmations to be pretty powerful in changing the way you think about yourself. And so I like to use that as something, when I want to be some…
you know, an aspirational thought or something that I’m going through, whether it’s through journaling or putting up a post-it note of this affirmation, so I see it every day. And over time, it becomes a part of you and it’s ingrained in your thoughts. So the idea is to take those affirmations and make it a part of you so that you start to think that and it becomes second nature to you.
Nick McGowan (11:38.59)
I think affirmations can be helpful for people, but I also like to call out specifically in life, but on this show, I like to call out the things that some people that I’ve heard before where they’re like, well, those are just fucking happy words. I don’t need your happy words. And it’s interesting because I think some people will just think that affirmations are just happy words. And like I’d mentioned to you before we even hit record, like I’ve tried the journaling thing before. It’s not really my jam.
Nick McGowan (12:05.462)
but I’m a musician and I write lyrics and that’s my jam. And that’s like the shift of it. So when people will say that some affirmations are just happy words, I don’t need your happy words, or other people that are like, I need more of those happy words because the more that I can ingest, the more that I can process and the more that I can understand. And like you’re saying, it’s a matter of being able to see those things to the point where they just become a part of you. And it’s really understanding the thing that does that for you, whether that be journaling or.
affirmations or meditating or going into one of those break rooms where you just break shit for like two hours. Like whatever that is, you know, but I think there’s a process to be able to figure that stuff out. And a lot of people don’t, don’t always give themselves the grace or the strength to be able to go through and just deal with the process. Cause you got to get through the pain of that. What are your thoughts on that?
Alice Yeh (12:56.299)
Yeah, I agree. And I do I agree that some affirmations may work for some people and may not work for others. I think it’s definitely an experiment you have to do. You test a lot of different things, like see what works for you. What what makes you start to see the positivity? And it does take time. It’s not something that happens overnight. I know we’re all like really busy and.
Alice Yeh (13:21.547)
I’m really excited to get to the results or impatient, but these things do take time. I know I’m still working through things on my own, and I know everybody is at some point. So yeah, it’s to have that grace with yourself and be okay to learn about yourself through this journey.
Nick McGowan (13:45.678)
Yeah, I’m glad that you point out that you’re still working through stuff. I don’t trust people that aren’t working through things. And I think it was Glennon Doyle that had said, if somebody doesn’t believe that they have mental health issues, there’s something wrong. Like everybody has something going on. Even if it’s not a full fledged issue, there’s still things that are happening. Like trauma is a part of everybody’s experience. And that doesn’t mean that you were in some crazy car fire.
Nick McGowan (14:13.79)
It could have just meant that somebody did something really fast and quickly that disrupted your nervous system. And being able to actually work through that stuff can be that process, but figuring out like what works for you, what doesn’t work for you. I know there are times where I’ve thought like the real shitty thoughts, like a shitty thought in the sense of like, well, those affirmations are just fucking buzzwords and happy words. And it’s like, well, why do you think that? Well, because I don’t want it to be true. Or I don’t want to have to just ingest these things or whatever.
Nick McGowan (14:42.57)
and being able to figure out what actually works for you. And sometimes it takes that work to be able to do that. So let’s talk about the work and like how you got to the point where you’re at now, because you don’t go to college and become a life coach. It’s not like a course that you take where you can get out and be an accountant or something like that. It’s typically something that has spurred up that has been inside of you. So let’s take a bit of a step back. Tell us what formed you to become who you are today.
Alice Yeh (15:01.152)
I’m sorry.
Alice Yeh (15:11.347)
Yeah, so I would say that how I, the journey to become a life coach. So I’ve spent 14 years in the corporate world working in a variety of industries from finance to tech to startups. This also included working abroad internationally. So I’ve got a chance to work in Hong Kong, London, Singapore, as well as here in the US and New York and now in San Francisco, where I live.
And through all of these experiences, actually let me take a step back here. So yeah, so I would say that, yeah, so through all of these experiences, I have felt that my passion for mentoring and helping people.
to feel empowered about their work, decisions, the career paths they were doing. This was the aspect that I always enjoyed the most through all of my roles in my corporate career. And this last year around this time, actually, I was starting to think about what I wanted to do next because I was feeling stuck, unhappy, unfulfilled in my last corporate role. Not an uncommon feeling. I think most people are not happy with their jobs.
Alice Yeh (16:28.731)
But I didn’t know what I wanted to do next. And I had gone through this cycle a couple of times where you jump from a role to another role. It’s okay, it’s good for a while. But then eventually you outgrow them. And I could see that all the paths ahead of me didn’t really look appealing. So I actually started working with a coach of my own to kind of help me figure out what to do next and get me feeling unstuck.
And on the other side of this, I’ve always wanted to start my own business, but I thought I needed like a really amazing, innovative idea that no one else had thought of before. And especially living here in San Francisco, that’s a really common mindset people have. But through my work with my coach, I realized this was really an incorrect assumption and belief that you have to have this new only a new idea to start a business. So.
Alice Yeh (17:23.935)
I realized that I could marry these two things and turn my passion into mentoring and helping people into starting my own coaching business. And it’s funny how life in the world works because when I made this decision last year to start getting certified as a coach and build my own practice, I was laid off a couple weeks later.
So I took it as a sign from the universe to go all in on this. And that’s kind of how I ended up here now as a coach. Yeah, so that’s kind of how I got here as a coach. The layoff, that was actually my third layoff in my corporate career. And there’s a lot I can say about getting laid off and how those experiences have changed me. So.
So yeah, if you can go into that or not. Yeah. So I would say my first layoff was probably the most significant of the three. It was my very first layoff. And how it led up to that point was after business school, I went to work at Google here in San Francisco. And I have only really started.
Nick McGowan (18:19.758)
I mean, you’re there, keep going. Yeah.
Alice Yeh (18:45.923)
talking about this a little bit more recently because it was something I was ashamed of back then. But when I was working at Google, I never got promoted. I was there for four years. And no matter how hard I tried, no matter how hard I worked, I could never get, I couldn’t get promoted. I tried working harder, longer hours, sometimes nights, sometimes weekends. I took on additional projects to prove myself, did personal development classes, but it was never enough.
and I couldn’t figure out why. And I didn’t feel like I was enough. I felt like I was undervalued and unappreciated at work. And then after four years of busting my ass off, I got laid off. And this first layoff was really demoralizing because I’d been working my ass off and I was shocked. I was so pissed, of course. And I had no idea what I wanted to do next because my entire life,
unspoken path of what you’re supposed to do. I checked all the boxes, get good grades, go to a good school, get a good job, and then get paid. But I did all these things and now I was jobless. I didn’t know what to do. And I know a lot of people can relate to these feelings of like working hard but not getting recognized or a lot of the layouts that have happened recently. So definitely been there. And…
What this experience taught me is that, so after I was laid off, I decided I wanted to take some time off because obviously I was burnt out and I wanted to take some time to recover and kind of just learn more about myself and do all these things that I never had time for. So I planned this self-discovery journey that I called Eat, Pray, Slay instead of Eat, Pray, Love to do all these things that I wanted to do.
Nick McGowan (20:38.986)
Nice.
Alice Yeh (20:42.671)
I ended up taking a full year off. I traveled to Costa Rica, Bali, Australia. I learned Spanish. I started a travel blog. I did yoga teacher training. I got Reiki certified. So this first layoff and the year-long sabbatical that I had afterwards was one of the best things that could have happened to me. The layoff was actually just a blessing in disguise
it allowed me to actually take a step back and really think about what I wanted to do with my life, what I do, all these things that I never had time for, and really just reflect and learn and understand myself better. So this year off was just one of the best things that could have happened to me.
Nick McGowan (21:33.698)
there’s a lot in that, you know, that could be, it could be a thing that we could say where you had dissociated from it and said, well, fuck it, I’m going to go party and go do all these things I wanted to do. And even if that was a piece of what you wanted to do, you’ve still done the work within that. But to take a step even further back, I think a lot of people and you’d said this, most people have an issue with the job that they’re in because they have checked those boxes. Like you said, they went to school.
Nick McGowan (22:03.382)
They got a piece of paper. That piece of paper said, you can get this type of job. They got him that job. They got married or whatever, and they had a house with two and a half kids. The half is always fucking weird, but they had all those things, and they’re like, what the fuck am I doing? What is this? And some people just continue to live in that instead of sometimes having the ball moved for you and going, well, you’d no longer work here, now you gotta figure your shit out, or being in a spot where you can do that.
Nick McGowan (22:32.17)
And that can be really tough for people to figure out. I was having a conversation recently with my coach about how people don’t like to ask themselves those really, really deep, dark questions because what if everything has to change? What if, what if everything they’ve done has been wrong or not the right thing for them? And it can be a really tough pill to swallow in that moment and easy for us to be like, yeah, well, what if, yeah, fuck it, what if?
Nick McGowan (22:59.674)
You never, you don’t know. It could be, it could not be. But being in that spot where you get laid off and have to do something, I’ve been there before. I got laid off three months into a marriage. So telling my now ex-wife, and it wasn’t because of that, other reasons, but telling her at that point like, hey, I got laid off. Do you wanna get Thai for dinner tonight? Or you think it’s sushi or like barbecue? And she’s like, fucking step back. What did you say? I’m like, I gotta figure this thing out.
But being in that spot where you can then make that decision of like, well, what do I want to do next? How do I want to go about this? I think people can make that decision when they’re in their job. And that’s the thing that a lot of people will talk about. You need a side hustle. Like you got to grind, you got to hustle, and you got to have some sort of side deal. I believe in that, but I also believe that you need to figure out what is it that’s making you move that’s pulling you like from your rib cage that you’re just like, I want to do this thing. Like some hobbies will become.
Nick McGowan (23:58.614)
Businesses some will just be hobbies some will just stay like that So for you to be able to take that whole big journey that you took and be in the spot You are now like good on you. What lessons did you learn from that looking back in this conversation now that you go? Well, you know what really stood out to me was?
Alice Yeh (24:00.951)
Right. Yeah.
Alice Yeh (24:19.083)
Yeah, and I think you touched on a lot of things that are really important. This whole experience of getting laid off to focus on myself, I tell people change happens by choice or by force. You’re either you make the decision to make the change that you want or you’re forced to, like getting laid off. And so…
this whole experience, that whole experience made me realize how much I valued freedom and independence and the whole concept of work to live, not live to work, or sorry, yes, work to live, not live to work, has stayed with me. And yeah, and I think there is more to life than just work, even though it does take a huge part of our daily life. It is about finding fulfillment in aspects of your life, not just your career.
Alice Yeh (25:14.755)
And we spend so much of our time on a career. It is crazy to me how much people are willing to put up with, like the kind of shit they put up with just to get that paycheck. And so I would say the lessons that I learned from the experience of getting laid off and then taking this year off that I incorporate into my coaching is to really follow your intuition. And when I decided to take
Nick McGowan (25:23.21)
Yeah, the traumas.
Yeah.
Alice Yeh (25:44.307)
my ear off, everyone had told me it would be a mistake because at that time you’re not supposed to have any gaps in your resume, you can’t take time off. And I did worry and think about it, but I was like, fuck it, I’m just gonna, I’m gonna trust my gut here. I want to do all these things I want to do. So I embraced the unknown and decided I would just figure it out all out later. And you know what, I was able to find another job when I was ready to return to workforce. So it wasn’t the end of the world.
Nick McGowan (25:58.102)
Yeah.
Alice Yeh (26:12.747)
So I think it’s really important to just follow your intuition and to break free of those expectations and take risks. And I mentioned earlier in the episode how taking those risks is something that I’ve been consciously doing in my life, to learn more about myself and learn from the mistakes and when I fail. And if I hadn’t followed my intuition to kind of take that year off, I definitely wouldn’t be who I am today.
I wouldn’t have learned all those things I don’t learn about myself. And I sought out opportunities to challenge myself to step out of my comfort zone. And so I think those are like really important lessons is to really challenge yourself, step out of your comfort zone, learn from those mistakes and failures, and ultimately be resilient to bounce back once you do experience that. Having lived through that first layoff.
Alice Yeh (27:11.799)
The second and third layoff were so much easier to handle because I had gone through it already. And so I’d been able to kind of build that muscle for resilience.
Nick McGowan (27:22.55)
See, that’s one of the things that I really love about the conversations I have on this podcast is I believe you can learn from other people’s experiences. Some people and most of the times, I think a lot of us have to like bash our head into the wall and be like, all right, the pain hurt me. So now I get it. Even if somebody told me like you shouldn’t go that route or whatever, but to trust your instinct, trust your intuition and move on that, you may learn from other people’s experiences. Like I hope somebody listens to this and goes.
Cool, note to self, I’m gonna go do that. I would hope that people will listen to it and go, hey, I’m not alone with this. But you have to trust your intuition, you have to trust your gut on this, and if you’re not sure how to listen and to feel into that, it’s a matter of actually feeling what moves you and what starts to pull at you and what will nag on you and what will excite you in those things, even excite in the sense of, we’ll scare the shit out of you. But think about reframing.
Alice Yeh (28:18.219)
Yes.
Nick McGowan (28:20.438)
Like somebody tells you and probably some family member or friend who just loves you and wants to take care and wants you to do the right thing. They’re like, you don’t want that because you don’t want to have a gap in your resume and blah, blah. But then a year later, you get to go say, look, fuck you. You’re not interviewing me and I’m interviewing you. I just spent an entire year doing exactly what I want. And I’m here sitting with you. That’s a whole different story than being like I got laid off. I sat on the couch and watched a bunch of Netflix for six months. Bastly different. But.
Nick McGowan (28:49.046)
following that intuition can be tough for people to do because of the things that have led them to where they’re at. The shoulds in life, like you should do this. You should get through this stuff. And I love that you touched on how some of the crazy shit that you deal with at work is just nonsense. Like the traumas that you experience, the belittling, the, all of it. Like if it was a relationship, you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t be in that relationship anymore or most people wouldn’t.
Alice Yeh (28:57.143)
Yeah. Well.
Nick McGowan (29:17.79)
you know, maybe they would, it depends on how they, how they deal with that and what they work through with that sort of stuff. So I’m glad that you pointed that out. And for the people that are in that spot, you’re trying to figure out, do I jump out of my career? Maybe, maybe not. You got to ask yourself those tough questions and figure out what do you do. And I think you do need to have a little bit of logic, but you also need to have a little bit of that kind of spiritual magic in a sense that like, hey, any fucking thing can happen. Anything can be possible. But
Alice Yeh (29:45.845)
Definitely.
Nick McGowan (29:47.462)
you should still be smart about it. If you’re like, I have $3 to my name, I’m gonna put myself in $40,000 worth of debt to try to do something, like maybe, it might be a good call for you, but it might not be. So seeking counsel within yourself intuition-wise and seeking counsel outside of that can be huge, but for those people that are going through that sort of stuff and trying to figure out how they do this, what’s your advice for somebody that’s on their path towards self-mastery?
Alice Yeh (30:14.131)
Yeah, I think it’s a lot of what you said of, you know, thinking, understanding your intuition. And for some people that can be harder than others. And I think a big part of that is to really understand yourself, get clear on like what you want, and why do you want those things. I mentioned that, you know, choice has
change happens by choice or by force. So you have the power to change your life or your career. And I think one of the first things in terms of advice is to know what direction you’re going. You know, I think going back to that story, my field hockey game story, if I had taken just one second to realize what direction I was going, the result could have been totally different. I would have noticed I was facing the wrong way.
Nick McGowan (31:07.338)
Yeah. You could have gone pro. You never know.
Alice Yeh (31:14.872)
I never know. So yeah, so if you don’t know the direction you’re going, how can you achieve self mastery? And in order to know what direction you’re going, you have to get clear on what you want. And it’s okay if those goals change as you change in life. It’s okay to evolve. Like, it’s crazy. Some people think they have to want the same things they wanted when they’re fresh out of college. Like, life happens. Things change.
So really understanding yourself of what you want and why you want it. I think this is really important is to, why do you want this goal or this, whatever it is you’re working towards in terms of the self mastery? Why is it important to you? Does it align with your values and your beliefs? There has to be an internal drive or an intrinsic motivator because it’s so easy to give yourself.
an excuse to not follow through or you get discouraged as soon as you encounter a setback. So you have to really dig deep to find this why and find ways to remind yourself of it. And part of that you can think about the rewards, how it will positively impact you in your life. And also the flip side, like what happens if you don’t follow through? What are you missing out on?
I think in terms of advice, like when you know where you’re going and why, it is easier to push and challenge yourself to take those risks because if you don’t, then you’re just not sure what to do and then you, it’s not as easy to take those risks and failing will seem really scary if you don’t know where you’re going. But when you do, then it’s less scary because you know that each experience is a learning experience and you can grow and work towards that self mastery.
Nick McGowan (33:13.046)
And everybody handles all that differently. And that might look different for different people. So to be able to question ourselves with that and figure out what direction are we going, even if it’s a base level of, I’m going to continue to grow, that’s good. If you know exactly where you wanna get to, beautiful. I think we also need to understand that path will probably not look the exact way that you think it’s going to be because there are other factors involved and other things are involved.
Nick McGowan (33:39.542)
but understanding that we are on that constant growth path and given ourselves grace to be able to do that and just not giving up when shit gets tough, but also following our intuition. Like we’re saying, if something’s really tough and it’s like pushing you away from something, at least being able to be self-aware with that to see like, Hey, do I need to go back to that job and get really pissed that I was there? Or just let that be the layoff that changes everything for me. So Alice, I appreciate you being on.
and share on everything you’ve shared today. Before I let you go, where can people find you and where can they connect with you?
Alice Yeh (34:13.631)
Yeah, so people can follow me or find me on Instagram at heyaliceye. But to learn more about my coaching and services, you can find me at aliceyecoaching.com.
Nick McGowan (34:27.222)
Perfect. And I’ll have all that stuff in the show notes too. Again, thank you so much for your time, Alice. Appreciate it.
Alice Yeh (34:31.907)
Thanks, thank you so much for having me.
https://youtu.be/7VSurZ952Dw