Are sustainability professionals working at the wrong level inside a system that resists real change? Joel and Soli dig into that question this week — why external validation is the wrong thing to chase, what a "hero's journey" framework does and doesn't explain about doing this work, and why renewable energy's transformation over one lifetime is the best evidence that incremental effort compounds. Plus, a quick update on the "spheres of influence" framework, now headed toward a forthcoming ISO net-zero standard.

Climate scientist Dr. Katharine Hayhoe — Nature Conservancy chief scientist, Texas Tech professor and author of "Saving Us" — joins Joel and Solitaire to explain why hope beats doom as a climate strategy, why more disasters don't produce more action, and the one underrated lever she'd hand a Fortune 500 CEO instead of another renewable-energy announcement.

What can climate communicators learn from stand-up comedians? Quite a lot, it turns out. Joel Makower and Solitaire Townsend sit down with Stuart Goldsmith — climate comedian, podcaster, and Live at the Apollo veteran — and Esteban Gast, the Colombian-American comedian behind the Climate Comedy Cohort. They talk about performing for hostile rooms, the power of vulnerability, why hypocrisy is the best material, and why treating your audience like friends might be the most underrated tool in climate communications.

Soli and Joel ask an uncomfortable question:sustainability professionals are trained to track trends and build momentum —but are we actually prepared for wild cards?

We went through some big ones: a 90% probability El Niño that most supply chains aren't pricing in, a data center oppositionmovement that's blocked $18 billion in U.S. projects, an insurance exodusthat's quietly making whole communities uninsurable, and the reality that social movements — for and against sustainability — are among the most powerful forces shaping corporate behavior.

As Soli put it: This is literally our job. And we're not doing it.

Joel and Soli dig into the new State of the Sustainability Profession report, which reveals a field under pressure — shrinking CEO engagement, shifting reporting lines, and budgets in flux. Then, author and activist Katharine Wilkinson joins to discuss her new book Climate Wayfinding, and why the inner work of grief, community, and reimagination may be exactly what sustainability professionals need right now.

The word "resilience" is everywhere right now. Which probably means it's already in trouble.

In our latest Two Steps Forward episode, Soli and Joel and pulled on this thread — and found something worth sharing: resilience isn't a rebrand for sustainability. It's what sustainability always was, just dressed in language that the C-suite might finally recognize.

We spoke with Linda Freiner, Group Chief Sustainability Officer at Zurich Insurance Group, on the role of insurance in a world of increasing risk. What became clear is that insurance isn’t peripheral to sustainability. It is, in many ways, the operating system beneath it.

Insurance, after all, is about pricing the future. And right now, the future is anything but predictable.

Freiner frames insurance not as a brake on risk-taking, but as an enabler. Without it, businesses don’t launch, infrastructure doesn’t get built, and innovation doesn’t scale. Insurance is the social safety net that allows the economy to function — and, increasingly, to transform.

But here’s the catch: The model is under strain.

What does it take to start a career in sustainability today — when the field is more established, but the expectations are higher than ever? In this episode, we speak with three early-career professionals about breaking in, building influence and navigating the realities of corporate sustainability. It’s a candid, hopeful and occasionally sobering conversation about what’s changed, what hasn’t and what sustainability elders can do to support — and learn from — the next generation.

Recorded live at the GreenBiz 26 conference in February, this episode of Two Steps Forward features Dylan Siegler, head of sustainability at Universal Music Group. Siegler discusses how the music industry’s greatest sustainability impact may come not from reducing emissions, but from influencing billions of fans through culture and storytelling. The conversation explores sustainable merch, artist advocacy, fandom as a force for behavior change, and the growing importance of “handprint” impact alongside traditional corporate footprint metrics.

For much of the past decade, corporate sustainability has been absorbed into the machinery of management — metrics, disclosures, target-setting and compliance. Necessary work, certainly. But something essential has been lost along the way: the idea that sustainability is fundamentally about invention.

That thread runs through the latest episode of Two Steps Forward, in which we talk with Liz Minné, who heads  global sustainability strategy at Interface, the floorcovering giant.

Interface remains instructive not because it is perfect or singular, but because it demonstrates what happens when sustainability becomes part of a company’s identity rather than a program. Over time, that identity attracts employees, shapes culture and builds customer loyalty — reinforcing itself in ways no disclosure requirement can mandate.