Two Tall Guys Talking Sales

Sales is a game of ups and downs, but what separates top performers from the rest is their ability to keep the funnel full—even when they're closing deals. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey dive into the art and science of building a consistent pipeline. They discuss strategic approaches to prospecting, leveraging data tools, and the importance of curiosity in sales conversations. Whether you're starting fresh in Q1 or looking to level up your approach, this episode is packed with actionable insights to keep your sales engine running smoothly.

🔹 The Sales Roller Coaster – Why salespeople experience cycles of high revenue followed by dry spells and how to smooth out the dips. (00:01:15)

🔹 The First Step: Re-engage Past Clients – Why checking in with existing customers is the easiest way to generate immediate opportunities. (00:02:23)

🔹 Using Free Data Resources to Prospect – How Data Axle and Apollo.io can help salespeople generate lists of high-potential prospects at no cost. (00:03:00)

🔹 Turning Leads Into Prospects – The difference between having a database of names and actually engaging with real sales opportunities. (00:05:31)

🔹 The Power of Networking and Curiosity – How to leverage your network to gain insights about a company before reaching out to decision-makers. (00:10:39)

🔹 Climbing the Ladder to the Decision-Maker – Why you shouldn't start at the top and how building relationships within an organization can earn you a trusted introduction. (00:14:37)

💬 Sean O'Shaughnessey on avoiding the sales roller coaster: "If I go back to my drain-the-swamp analogy, you gotta put water back in the swamp, you gotta let it rain, gotta make it rain." (00:02:02)

💬 Kevin Lawson on the importance of planning: "Too often, salespeople stop after the second or third introduction. Timing is everything—keep going, keep networking, and keep qualifying your ideal client profile." (00:12:39)

💬 Sean O'Shaughnessey on reaching executives: "You cannot send an email to the CEO and expect it to be read. You are just a salesperson. If you want to sell to the top, you need a referral—and probably from someone lower in the organization." (00:14:37)

📌 Data Axle – A powerful business database often available through public libraries. Check with your local library for free access.

📌 Apollo.io – A free tool offering up to 10,000 business contacts per month to help with prospecting.

📌 Lighthouse Sales Advisors Coaching – Kevin Lawson offers 1:1 coaching to help sales professionals refine their strategies. Learn more here.

Take 30 minutes this week to evaluate your sales pipeline using the "circle exercise."

1. Draw a circle and estimate what percentage of your revenue will come from existing clients vs. new clients.

2. Identify how many new deals you need to hit your quota.

3. Rank your existing leads based on fit and potential.

4. Develop a networking plan to move from a name on a list to an engaged prospect.

Doing this exercise will give you clarity on where to focus your efforts and how to strategically fill your pipeline.

Struggling with an empty pipeline after closing strong last year? You're not alone. In this fast-paced, insight-packed episode, Kevin and Sean break down the fundamental strategies that separate high-performing salespeople from those stuck on the revenue roller coaster. Whether you're looking for free prospecting tools, better ways to approach networking, or a foolproof plan to keep your sales funnel full, this episode delivers practical tactics you can apply immediately.

🎧 Tune in now and take control of your sales pipeline!

In this insightful episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey dive deep into the art of active listening and its transformative potential in sales. Building on the discussion from last week's episode about discovery questions, Kevin and Sean provide actionable strategies to improve your listening skills, enhance your client interactions, and ultimately close more deals. Whether you're a seasoned sales professional or new to the field, this episode is packed with valuable lessons you can apply immediately.

1. The Role of Active Listening in Sales Success Kevin and Sean discuss how active listening differentiates successful salespeople from the rest and why it's critical for uncovering client pain points.

2. The Power of Note-Taking Kevin shares his transition from paper to digital note-taking and how capturing accurate information leads to better follow-ups and stronger client relationships.

3. Body Language and Visual Cues in Client Meetings Sean emphasizes the importance of leaning forward, maintaining eye contact, and using other non-verbal cues to demonstrate engagement during conversations.

4. Learning from Reporters: Listening Like a Pro Sean compares salespeople to seasoned reporters and outlines how active listening and asking thoughtful follow-up questions can set the stage for impactful discussions.

5. Upskilling Through Active Listening Kevin highlights how organizations can improve their pipeline and closing rates by investing in training that focuses on active listening and effective questioning techniques.

• Sean O'Shaughnessey: "Don't ever book a meeting without educating the client or making them a better business. That's the only reason you're allowed in their office." (Approx. 8:00)

• Kevin Lawson: "Active listening is your skeleton key to unlock doors that were previously closed. It's the gateway to uncovering real pain points and creating meaningful solutions." (Approx. 13:15)

• Sean O'Shaughnessey: "Leaning forward in your chair isn't just about posture; it's a powerful signal to your client that you're fully engaged and ready to understand their needs." (Approx. 10:00)

• Sean and Kevin refer to the previous episode on discovery questions as a foundation for this discussion. If you haven't listened to it, consider downloading it for additional context.

Apply Active Listening in Your Next Sales Call In your next client interaction, focus on active listening by using these three steps:

1. Lean forward and maintain engaged body language.

2. Paraphrase the client's statements to ensure understanding.

3. Take detailed notes and review them to tailor your follow-up responses.

These small adjustments can make a significant difference in the quality of your client conversations and help you close more deals.

Summary Paragraph: Active listening isn't just a soft skill; it's a sales superpower. In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin and Sean unravel the nuances of listening to clients, capturing their pain points, and building trust through meaningful interactions. With tips ranging from non-verbal cues to the tactical use of note-taking, this conversation equips you with tools to elevate your sales game. Whether you're preparing for a discovery call, a QBR, or a cold call, this episode is a must-listen for actionable insights. Tune in and transform the way you engage with your clients.

Happy listening—and selling!

In this episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey tackle one of the most critical yet underestimated aspects of sales: the discovery call. Are you guilty of "winging it" during these pivotal conversations? Tune in as Kevin and Sean break down the importance of crafting a tailored question bank, share actionable tips to elevate your discovery process, and reveal how asking the right questions can transform your sales game. If you're looking to close more deals and gain the respect of your prospects, this is the episode for you.

• The Danger of Winging It in Discovery Calls (Approx. 00:00:00) Kevin and Sean explain why improvising during discovery calls can lead to missed opportunities and how a question bank can save the day.

• Building an Effective Question Bank (Approx. 00:01:00) Learn how to create a dynamic set of questions tailored to different industries and titles, ensuring every prospect feels understood.

• The Power of Open-Ended Questions (Approx. 00:05:00) Discover why "what" and "how" questions are more effective than "why" questions in fostering productive, trust-building conversations.

• The ROI of Better Discovery Questions (Approx. 00:07:00) Explore how better discovery leads to more accurate forecasts, stronger relationships, and increased respect from prospects.

• Refining Your Question Bank Over Time (Approx. 00:12:00) Kevin and Sean emphasize the importance of regularly reviewing and updating your questions to stay relevant and effective.

• Kevin Lawson: "You should never ask a question on a discovery call that you could find the answer to with public information. That's a waste of your prospect's time and shows you haven't earned their business." (Approx. 00:10:27)

• Sean O'Shaughnessey: "Why questions feel like interrogation. Great discovery questions start with what and how—they build trust and uncover real insights." (Approx. 00:06:25)

• Kevin Lawson: "Writing down your questions allows you to tweak, hone, and refine them. It's the preparation that separates good sellers from great ones." (Approx. 00:09:05)

Start Your Own Question Bank Today Set aside 30 minutes to brainstorm 10-15 open-ended questions for your next discovery call. Categorize them by industry and prospect title. Use these questions in your next call, then evaluate their effectiveness. Adjust and refine over time to create a winning formula.

Summary Paragraph Mastering the discovery call is essential for any successful salesperson, and in this episode, Kevin and Sean provide the ultimate guide to getting it right. From crafting a versatile question bank to leveraging open-ended questions that build trust and uncover insights, this episode is packed with actionable advice to transform your sales process. Don't miss this opportunity to elevate your skills and close more deals—listen now and discover the art of the perfect discovery call!

Cold calling is dead—or so claims our guest, Ben Victorica, in this thought-provoking Two Tall Guys Talking Sales episode. Hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey dive deep with Ben into the challenges of modern sales pipelines and explore why traditional outreach methods are no longer effective. Together, they uncover how relationship selling, fueled by emotional intelligence and strategic connections, is reshaping the future of sales. Whether you're a seasoned sales professional or just starting out, this episode is packed with actionable insights you can't afford to miss.

Key Topics Discussed

• Why Cold Calling is Ineffective Today Ben discusses the inefficiency of cold outreach in the modern era, citing Bank of America's 2021 decision to ban cold calling as a pivotal moment in sales strategy. (Approx. 00:01:00)

• The Economics of Cold Outreach vs. Relationship Selling Sean explains the hidden costs of cold calling, emphasizing the expensive hourly rate of quota-bearing sales reps and its low ROI. (Approx. 00:02:20)

• Leveraging LinkedIn for Strategic Connections Ben provides a practical, step-by-step guide to mining LinkedIn connections for warm referrals, using your network intelligently without costly tools. (Approx. 00:05:35)

• The Role of Emotional Intelligence in Modern Sales Kevin and Ben discuss how sales professionals can use emotional intelligence and relationship intelligence tools to identify and nurture stronger business relationships. (Approx. 00:10:45)

• Maximizing Relationship Capital with Technology Ben introduces KnowledgeNet, a tool that helps sales teams unlock and scale their relationship capital to drive business growth. (Approx. 00:12:00)

• Kevin Lawson: "Top of funnel cold outreach with no relationship is nearly impossible—it's a cost line on any P&L." (Approx. 00:04:48)

• Sean O'Shaughnessey: "If you hand someone a list of 100 people you'd like an introduction to, you'll get zero. But ask for five or ten, and you'll get meaningful connections." (Approx. 00:07:45)

• Ben Victorica: "Cold calling is dead. Relationship selling instead." (Approx. 00:01:49)

• KnowledgeNet.ai: A powerful tool to uncover and leverage relationship capital within your organization. Visit KnowledgeNet

• Wall Street Journal 2021 Article: Referenced by Ben regarding Bank of America's decision to ban cold calling - https://www.wsj.com/articles/bank-of-americas-merrill-lynch-to-ban-trainee-brokers-from-making-cold-calls-11621850400.

Use LinkedIn as a referral engine. List key LinkedIn connections that align with your ideal customer profile. Then, approach your strongest network contacts—your "super connectors"—with a curated list of five to ten potential introductions. Respect their time and include a pre-written email template to make the referral process seamless.

The sales landscape has shifted, and the old playbook of cold calling no longer delivers results. This episode offers a fresh perspective on building pipelines using strategic relationships and modern tools like KnowledgeNet. Packed with real-world advice from Kevin, Sean, and Ben, this conversation will inspire you to rethink your sales approach. Ready to ditch outdated tactics and embrace the future of selling? Tune in now to gain the edge you need.

For most of us, our revenue-to-date is going back to zero. We are 0% of quota YTD. Time to go out and blow away your quota.

Happy New Year from Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey.

Keven Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey thank you for your gift of listening to us talk about Sales. We hope we have returned that gift by imparting some wisdom that can make you more successful.

In this compelling episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey dive deep into the heart of sales motivation and goal setting. They share relatable stories, actionable insights, and practical strategies for salespeople and sales leaders. Using a vivid sports analogy, Sean sets the tone for an episode packed with strategies to stay driven—even when the path isn't clear. Whether you're grappling with setting goals or maximizing your commission potential, this episode is a goldmine for actionable advice and personal growth.

Key Topics Discussed

• The Athlete Analogy: Personal Motivation Meets Team Success (0:00) Sean parallels a high school sprinter's rigorous training and the dedication needed to succeed in sales.

• The Importance of Personal "Why" in Sales Motivation (6:00) Kevin and Sean explore how individual motivations—whether financial goals, family obligations, or personal growth—shape sales performance.

• Breaking Down Your Sales Math to Achieve Success (10:00) Kevin explains how to reverse-engineer your earnings goal, calculate deal requirements, and align your activities with desired outcomes.

• Creating Personal Rewards for Milestone Achievements (9:00) Sean shares a story about a salesperson's unique approach to celebrating significant deals and how small rewards can drive consistent motivation.

• The Art of Setting Goals When None Are Provided (3:30) Kevin and Sean discuss practical steps for creating your own sales targets when your organization hasn't assigned any.

Key Quotes

• Sean O'Shaughnessey (2:00): "What motivates you as a salesperson to do incredibly well? What are you doing to achieve your goals, and because you achieve your goals, maybe you're inspiring someone else on your team to do the same."

• Kevin Lawson (4:29): "If you're not given a goal, do the math that gets you to success. It starts with understanding your economic driver and building a plan from there."

• Sean O'Shaughnessey (9:20): "Choose something unique to reward yourself when something good happens. It's a motivator for the day and can become the beginning of your career motivation."

A Significant Actionable Item from this Podcast Reverse-engineer your sales goals for 2024. Start by defining your desired income, break it down into weekly targets, and calculate how many deals you need to close. Then, analyze your closing rates to determine how many leads and opportunities you need to generate. Finally, track your progress weekly and adjust your strategy to stay on course.

Summary Paragraph This episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales delivers powerful insights into staying motivated and setting actionable sales goals. Sean and Kevin expertly weave relatable analogies with proven strategies to help you master the art of self-motivation and goal achievement. Whether you're working towards a personal milestone or aiming to inspire your team, this episode provides the tools to elevate your performance. Tune in and take control of your sales journey today!

In this thought-provoking episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales, hosts Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey dive into the transformative power of technology in sales and operations. From the essentials of adopting a CRM to leveraging AI and automation, Kevin and Sean discuss how modern businesses can streamline operations, boost productivity, and prepare for the future. Whether you're managing a small team or a large enterprise, this episode will provide actionable insights into creating an integrated tech stack that supports growth and resilience.

1. The Importance of a CRM System (Approx. 00:01:00)

   • Why every organization needs a CRM to centralize and share data across teams, from sales to manufacturing.

   • How a CRM can prevent revenue loss during sales team transitions.

2. Building an Integrated Tech Stack (Approx. 00:03:00)

   • Understanding the interconnectedness of CRM, ERP, and project management tools.

   • Simplifying operations with modern, cloud-based solutions.

3. Preparing for the AI Revolution (Approx. 00:04:00)

   • How AI and machine learning are redefining operational workflows.

   • Why having an AI strategy is essential for staying competitive.

4. Forecasting and Automation (Approx. 00:09:00)

   • Leveraging technology to improve forecasting, pipeline management, and resource allocation.

   • Automating routine tasks for efficiency and scalability.

5. The Role of Sales and Marketing Alignment (Approx. 00:11:00)

   • Why sales and marketing collaboration is critical for success.

   • How technology bridges the gap between these teams.

• Sean O'Shaughnessey: "Your journey to 2035 starts right now. By staying on outdated tools, you're not just behind—you're making it harder to catch up later." (Approx. 00:06:06)

• Kevin Lawson: "Technology is now part of the fabric of how we do business. If you want to grow and scale—or even just survive—adopting the right tools is the right battle to fight." (Approx. 00:02:34)

• Sean O'Shaughnessey: "Revenue solves all problems in companies, but only if your systems are set up to support it." (Approx. 00:12:23)

• McKinsey Report on AI in Business: September 2024 Edition.

• HubSpot Marketplace: Tools to integrate CRM with calling apps and social media management platforms.

• Ninety.io: Software for tracking KPIs and achieving quarterly goals.

Start with Your CRM: Evaluate your current CRM system (or lack thereof) and its integration with other business tools. Focus on centralizing data and enabling seamless communication between teams. This single step can drastically improve productivity, forecasting accuracy, and cross-functional collaboration.

This episode of Two Tall Guys Talking Sales is a must-listen for anyone looking to future-proof their business. Kevin and Sean offer practical advice and actionable strategies to help you streamline operations, adopt cutting-edge technologies, and align your team for success. Whether you're planning for 2025 or 2035, the insights shared in this episode will set you on the path to achieving your goals.

Tune in and discover how to take your sales operations to the next level!

Happy Thanksgiving! We hope that you have much to be thankful for. Kevin and Sean

In this episode of "Two Tall Guys Talking Sales," Kevin Lawson and Sean O'Shaughnessey dive into the critical tools every modern salesperson needs to thrive. Whether you're equipping yourself in a tech-limited environment or looking to amplify your selling power with affordable tools, Kevin and Sean share practical insights from their decades of experience in sales and technology. This episode is packed with actionable advice for sales professionals looking to streamline their workflows and close deals more efficiently.

• [00:01:00] Taking Notes Efficiently: The duo discusses tools like Evernote, OneNote, and even native apps like Notes, emphasizing the importance of accessible, synchronized note-taking for sales success.

• [00:03:00] CRM Essentials: Why Outlook or spreadsheets don't cut it as CRMs and affordable alternatives like HubSpot and Insightly that can transform your sales process.

• [00:05:00] Integration is Key: Kevin highlights how integrating tools like email, CRMs, and AI writing assistants such as ChatGPT or Claude can create a seamless selling experience.

• [00:07:30] Managing Mileage and Expenses: Sean introduces tools like MileIQ and Expensify to streamline mileage tracking and expense management for busy salespeople.

• [00:12:00] Staying Top of Mind: How CRMs help salespeople maintain relationships by tracking the timing and content of client interactions.

• Kevin [00:05:00]: "Integrate everything. All of your tools should talk to each other—most of that, you'll find under the marketplace of your CRM."

• Sean [00:04:00]: "Outlook is not a CRM. Gmail is not a CRM. They're just tools. A true CRM system will help you relate multiple people together at the same company and keep track of your progress."

• Kevin [00:13:30]: "When we write to reconnect, it's not about us; it's about them. The fewer times you say 'I, me, or my' in an email, the better your message will land."

• HubSpot CRM: A free CRM option for individual salespeople to manage contacts and deals.

• Insightly CRM: A free CRM option for individual salespeople to manage contacts and deals.

• MileIQ: A mileage-tracking app that simplifies expense reporting.

• Expensify: A freemium tool to manage receipts and expenses with ease.

• ChatGPT and Claude: AI writing tools that improve email and content creation for sales professionals.

• Grammarly: An AI-powered writing assistant that enhances communication by providing real-time feedback on grammar, clarity, tone, and style across various platforms and devices.

Build your integrated tech stack now. Start by selecting a free CRM like HubSpot or Insightly, then add complementary tools for note-taking, mileage tracking, and email integration. Use AI tools like ChatGPT to refine your communications and ensure every tool in your stack works seamlessly.

Whether you're a tech-savvy salesperson or just starting to explore the power of modern tools, this episode offers a roadmap for building an affordable, effective sales tech stack. Kevin and Sean provide real-world examples and practical advice to help you stay organized, build stronger client relationships, and close deals faster. Don't miss this episode—it could be the catalyst for taking your sales game to the next level. Listen now!