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After President Biden gave Ukraine the go-ahead to use long-range US missiles in Russia, the Russians responded by shooting an intercontinental ballistic missile back into Ukraine. Now, as we wait for the next move that could ignite nuclear war, we’re talking to TIME correspondent Simon Shuster to analyze the conflict.

At TIME, Shuster covers international affairs, with a focus on Russia and Ukraine. For his first book, The Showman, he reported inside the Ukrainian President’s compound in Kyiv as the Russian invasion unfolded.

Our interview includes insights into President Zelensky’s inner circle, a fascinating story of the Ukrainian president during the early days of the war, and first-hand accounts of the back and forths of generals.

Plus, Simon and Aaron have an extended debate over the cause of the conflict as well as the motives of Putin, Zelensky, and NATO. 

And don’t miss this week’s Thursday Throwdown, where Katie breaks down her debate with Alan Dershowitz during her recent appearance of Piers Morgan.

Thanks for supporting independent media. Enjoy this week’s full episode, unpaywalled, and have a happy Thanksgiving.

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