The actions of the Turkish army have come under worldwide scrutiny in the past weeks, when it announced an invasion into Northern Syria with a stated goal of creating a 'safe zone' for Syrian refugees there. There’s just one small problem: the area is largely inhabited by Kurds: a stateless nation who was a key NATO ally in defeating the so-called Islamic State, but also one with a strained relationship with the Turkish government. With Umut Uygur, we talk about President Erdoğan, Umut's experiences from living in a town near the Syrian border, local rap songs criticising social problems, and kebab being a very fancy meal in Turkey.