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Unchained
Unchained episodes
- The Chopping Block: Coinbase’s Paul Grewal on Why the SEC Is Going After Crypto So Aggressively - Ep. 538
Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, and Tarun Chitra, chop it up about the latest news. This week, the gang goes in depth with Coinbase chief legal officer Paul Grewal to discuss Grayscale’s win in its court case against the SEC, Coinbase’s ongoing dust-up with the SEC, the onerous new crypto reporting regulations proposed by the U.S. Treasury, and the unsettling legal arguments behind the government crackdown on Tornado Cash.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, TuneIn, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights:
- why Paul considers the court ruling in favor of Grayscale in its case against the SEC “nothing short of monumental”
- how much it actually matters if a spot Bitcoin ETF gets approved
- what options the SEC has now to pursue its position
- why BlackRock may have applied for its spot Bitcoin ETF when it did
- how the SEC 'changed its tune' and went from approving Coinbase’s S1 to suing them in a federal court, according to Paul
- how the collapse of FTX may have affected the SEC’s view of Coinbase
- why Coinbase has decided to wage its battle against the SEC so publicly
- when Paul expects a final decision to be made on the SEC’s lawsuit against Coinbase
- what Paul would do to regulate the digital asset industry if he were Gary Gensler
- whether the Treasury Department’s extensive proposed reporting regulations mean the crypto industry is “screwed”
- why Paul believes that the government’s crackdown on Tornado Cash is "dead wrong on the law"
HostsHaseeb Qureshi, managing partner at DragonflyTom Schmidt, general partner at DragonflyTarun Chitra, managing partner at Robot VenturesGuest:
Paul Grewal, chief legal officer of Coinbase- Previous appearances on Unchained:
- Just a Coincidence? Coinbase and Polygon Lawyers See Bad Omens in SEC Crackdown
- Coinbase’s Top Lawyer Calls SEC Wells Notice a ‘Massive Overreach’
DisclosuresLinks- Unchained:
- Grayscale Wins Lawsuit Against SEC Over Denial of Bid to Convert GBTC Into a Bitcoin ETF
- SEC Issues Coinbase a Wells Notice
- Tornado Cash Cofounder Arrested, Another Sanctioned by U.S. Government
- Bitcoin ETFs Explained: What Are They & How Do They Work?
- Coinbase: We asked the SEC for reasonable crypto rules for Americans. We got legal threats instead.
- TechCrunch: SEC settles first NFT enforcement case, fines LA media company $6M
- The Block: Treasury, IRS release proposed crypto tax reporting rules
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1 hr 5 min - Oracles: Does the Backbone of DeFi Need Fixing? - Ep. 537
Oracles are all about bringing important data (mostly asset prices) onto the blockchain. As such, they’re a key part of decentralized finance. But oracle provider Pyth sees room for improvement as it relates to being more real-time than crypto incumbents like Chainlink. Mike Cahill, the CEO of a brand new Pyth-linked firm called Douro Labs, joins the show to explain the opportunity he sees in building better oracles.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights:- how Pyth Network works and what the upcoming Perseus upgrade consists of
- Mike’s background in traditional finance
- why oracles are necessary in crypto and what the challenges are for oracle providers
- whether it’s hard for traditional institutions to participate in crypto protocols
- what the four types of oracle solutions are and how they differ
- how Pyth determines which data providers are allowed in the network and how that will change if it becomes more decentralized
- why Mike compares the scalability of Pyth to how Facebook grew
- why Douro Labs is being launched and why it will be solely focused on Pyth for now
- the factors driving Pyth’s growth, according to Mike
- Mike’s opinion on the current state of the crypto market and what the endgame is for Pyth
Thank you to our sponsors!- Crypto.com
- Arbitrum Foundation
- TOKEN2049
Guest:Mike Cahill, CEO at Douro Labs.Links- What’s the Difference Between Pyth and Legacy Oracles
- Unchained:
- What Are Blockchain Oracles?
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44 min - Is This the End of DeFi? Why the US Government Is Going After Tornado Cash - Ep. 536
On Wednesday, the U.S. Government indicted Tornado Cash developers Roman Storm and Roman Semenov for three counts of conspiracy involving a staggeringly large number: $1 billion in criminal proceeds. The U.S. Department of Justice attached North Korean hackers to a large portion of this sum, alleging that Tornado’s privacy tech enabled nefarious deeds. Amanda Tuminelli, chief legal officer of the DeFi Education Fund, joins the show to assess whether the U.S. Government got it right or is merely misguided in its understanding of how blockchain technology works. Should Tornado Cash devs be held to account for the criminal use of their software?
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights:
- why the U.S. Government says the cofounders of Tornado Cash facilitated money laundering
- what the difference is between the concealment of potential proceeds of a crime versus the facilitation of that crime
- why Amanda believes that if the government understood the technology they wouldn’t be making these allegations
- whether the charges and the indictment will have implications for all software developers
- whether these allegations could mark the “end of DeFi” in the U.S.
- whether front-end applications in DeFi will need to mandate KYC checks for all users
- how the charges appear to contradict earlier FinCEN guidance
- how the DOJ will use the involvement of North Korean hackers to “make it look bad” for the jury
- what the future of the case will look like and whether there will be a motion to dismiss the indictment
Thank you to our sponsors!- Crypto.com
- Arbitrum Foundation
- Thales DAO
GuestAmanda Tuminelli, Chief Legal Officer at DeFi Education FundLinks- Previous coverage of Unchained on Tornado Cash:
- The Chopping Block: 'Code Is Law' Is 'Obviously Not How Anything Works Ever'
- The Chopping Block: Why DeFi May Be Over-Complying With Tornado Cash Sanctions
- Preston Van Loon on Ethereum’s Merge and His Lawsuit Against Treasury
- Given the Sanctions on Tornado Cash, Is Ethereum Censorship Resistant?
- The Chopping Block: Did OFAC Overstep by Sanctioning Tornado Cash?
- Tornado Cash Sanctioned. Did the Government Overstep Its Bounds?
- Unchained:
- Tornado Cash Cofounder Arrested, Another Sanctioned by U.S. Government
- OFAC Updates Tornado Cash Sanctions To Include DAO
- Coin Center Sues the US Treasury Over Tornado Cash Sanctions
- Coin Center: New Tornado Cash indictments seem to run counter to FinCEN guidance
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34 min - The Chopping Block: All About That Base With Jesse Pollak - Ep. 535
Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest news. This week, Coinbase’s Jesse Pollak talks about the ambitious goals of Base, the new Optimism–based blockchain from the publicly traded crypto giant. With the viral success of Base-based Friend.Tech, Jesse discusses the Base team’s ambitious goals to onboard “a million builders, a billion users.” Is this the long-heralded path to scaling Ethereum?
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, TuneIn, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights:
- why Jesse says it’s still “day one” for Base
- the reason behind Base’s “one million developers, one billion users” slogan
- what the advantages of Base are compared to other layer 2 blockchains
- how Base accounts for the fact that it doesn’t have a token to incentivize developer activity
- how MEV bots represent a big part of the transactions on Base, especially with the emergence of Friend.Tech
- why Friend.Tech found early success despite being similar to previous efforts
- Jesse’s response to the fact that fault proofs are not live on any of the OP Stack chains
- how much of the revenue generated by Coinbase’s sequencer will be distributed to Optimism
- whether Base and Optimism Mainnet compete with each other
- how layer 2 chains are choosing different design paths and how that differentiates them
HostsHaseeb Qureshi, managing partner at DragonflyRobert Leshner, founder of CompoundTom Schmidt, general partner at DragonflyTarun Chitra, managing partner at Robot VenturesGuest
Jesse Pollak, lead contributor at BaseDisclosuresLinks- Unchained: Coinbase Launches a New Layer 2 on Ethereum
- CoinDesk: Social Platform Friend.tech Gains 100K Users in Days Even in Depths of a Bear Market
- TechCrunch: Friend.tech hype is skyrocketing, but will it actually reach the stars?
Decrypt: Base Daily Transactions Outpace Ethereum on Friend.tech Frenzy
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1 hr - Can Maker’s Rune Christensen Fix the Sad State of DAO Governance? - Ep. 534
The height of the last bull run was when MakerDAO cofounder Rune Christensen felt most disillusioned by DeFi and DAOs. “I didn’t even see how Maker was going to survive,” Christensen tells Laura Shin in the latest episode of Unchained. Now Christensen is leading an effort to help DAOs escape their trough of disillusionment. He says the ambitious “Endgame Plan” for MakerDAO seeks to overcome “the central issue of voter apathy.” Will it work or are DAOs doomed to fail?
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights:- the disillusionment that comes with the growth of DAOs and the need for a new approach
- Rune’s insights into the challenges that most DAOs face
- how Maker plans to implement alignment engineering through tools, gamification, and incentives
- what each phase of Maker’s “Endgame Plan” seeks to accomplish
- the strategy behind Maker’s rebranding, including the launch of new tokens while maintaining MKR and DAI
- the importance of governance boundaries in ensuring that participants follow the rules and contribute constructively
- the goal to reach a state of ossification and certainty, similar to Bitcoin
- the challenges of renaming tokens and the decision to keep the original brands
- why Rune believes that Phase 2 of the Endgame Plan will change the industry
- how SubDAOs will work to align incentives, improve the organization, and avoid ponzi schemes
- what Maker’s “Atlas” is and how it intends to set boundaries
- how Maker plans to use artificial intelligence
- the role of delegates in the DAO and how users choose them
- the difference between “dovish” and “hawkish” governance
- what the motivation was for launching the Spark lending protocol
- why the DAI Savings Rate (DSR) is not offered to American investors and Rune’s take on DeFi regulation
- why South Korea and Japan are the best crypto environments in the world, according to Rune
- whether Maker should be doing more to mitigate the influence of “whales,” given that Rune owns about 10% of the MKR supply
Thank you to our sponsors!- Crypto.com
- Arbitrum Foundation
- TOKEN2049
Guest:Rune Christensen, Cofounder of MakerDAO- Previous appearances on Unchained:
- Rune Christensen of MakerDAO Part 1: How to Keep a Crypto-Collateralized Stablecoin Afloat
- Rune Christensen of MakerDAO Part 2: How Dai Stayed at $1 While ETH Crashed From $1,400 to $85
- The Chopping Block: How to Manage MakerDAO, With Hasu and Rune
- Rune Christensen of MakerDao on Its $15 Million From Andreessen Horowitz
- Why It's so Hard to Keep Stablecoins Stable
Links- Unchained:
- MakerDAO: The DeFi Protocol That Lets You Be Your Own Banker
- MakerDAO’s Spark Protocol Blocks VPN Users
- MakerDAO to Raise DAI Yield Amid Lower Demand for Stablecoin
- Maker Founder Proposes Changing DAI Savings Rate to 5%
- The Defiant: Christensen Drops Radical Plan to Remake MakerDAO and Address 'Fundamental Problems',
- Christensen’s Twitter thread explaining Endgame
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1 hr 25 min - SBF Behind Bars: Why Revoked Bail Is a Big Deal for Crypto’s Biggest Trial - Ep. 533
Lawyer Brian Klein joins the show to explain why Sam Bankman-Fried being locked up makes it “much tougher” for his legal team. This week, the judge presiding over the case said SBF went too far in attempting to intimidate key witnesses – chief among them former Alameda Research co-CEO (and ex-flame) Caroline Ellison. Will a jail cell change SBF’s defiant tune ahead of a hotly anticipated October trial date? Klein weighs in.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights:
- why the detention of SBF changes the dynamics of the trial preparation
- why Brian believes that the appeal to the detention won’t prevail
- whether these new conditions will lead to a request for a delay of the trial
- whether the fact that SBF is now in jail will make him more interested in a plea deal
- why both the prosecution and the defense have filed motions to limit allowable evidence and what that means for the trial
- what the short-term future of the trial looks like
- how long a trial like this would take to play out
Thank you to our sponsors!- Crypto.com
- Arbitrum Foundation
- Thales DAO
GuestBrian Klein, partner at WaymakerLinks- Previous coverage of Unchained on Sam Bankman-Fried and FTX:
- Will FTX Reboot? Here’s John Ray’s Internal Deadline for Making a Decision
- The Chopping Block: Was FTX a Scam From the Very Beginning?
- How Much Prison Time Is FTX’s Sam Bankman-Fried Facing?
- Why the Legal Process for FTX and Sam Bankman-Fried Could Take Years
- The Chopping Block: SBF Wants to Win in the Court of Public Opinion. Will He?
- Jesse Powell and Kevin Zhou on How FTX and Alameda Lost $10 Billion
- Is the Collapse of Crypto Lending Over, or Is It Just Starting?
- Did the Bahamian Government Direct SBF and Gary Wang to Hack FTX?
- The Chopping Block: Why Lenders Didn’t Liquidate Alameda When It Was Underwater
- Erik Voorhees and Cobie on Why FTX Loaned Out Customers’ Assets
- The Chopping Block: FTX: The Biggest Collapse in the History of Crypto?
- Sam Bankman-Fried on How to Prevent the Next Terra and 3AC
- Unchained:
- Sam Bankman-Fried Remanded to Jail Ahead of Fraud Trial
- Prosecutors Move to Include Caroline Ellison’s List of ‘Things Sam is Freaking Out About’ Into Evidence Against FTX Founder
- Prosecutors Allege SBF Used $100 Million User Funds for Campaign Contributions
- The New York Times: Prosecutors Detail Evidence Against Sam Bankman-Fried
- The Block: Former FTX exec Salame to plead the fifth about campaign finance schemes
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44 min - The Chopping Block: How Wintermute Avoids ‘Zombie’ Exchanges, Base’s Early Success, Bank Fraud in the AI Era - Ep. 532
Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest news. This week, Wintermute CEO Evgeny Gaevoy joins the show to discuss market making when the crypto markets are quiet. Plus, an analysis of Base’s prospects following a surge of early interest. Also: Do you think bank fraud is going to run rampant in the AI era?
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, TuneIn, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights:
- how prop shops like Wintermute view the current state of the crypto market
- how an organization like WIntermute interacts with DeFi platforms
- Tarun and Evgeny attempt to squash some past beef
- why Evgeny believes that some exchanges are “zombies”
- whether this is a good time to build an exchange and how Evgeny would do it
- how Base accomplished a big surge in its TVL and daily volumes
- whether it’s possible for Coinbase to balance the decentralized nature of building a blockchain with a desire to minimize scams
- how L2 sequencers have the power to censor transactions and the analogy to proof-of-authority chains
- how friend.tech, the social app built on Base, works and why it got so much attention
- why the crypto cognoscenti seemed to like friend.tech but hated BitClout, which is basically the same thing
- what is the role of biometrics in securing crypto wallets and assets
- whether bank fraud will increase or decrease because of advances in AI
HostsHaseeb Qureshi, managing partner at DragonflyRobert Leshner, founder of CompoundTarun Chitra, managing partner at Robot VenturesGuest:
Evgeny Gaevoy, CEO of Wintermute Trading- Previous appearance on Unchained: How Traders Are Thinking About the Merge — and a Potential ETHPoW Chain
DisclosuresLinks- Unchained: Coinbase Layer 2 Base Sees 80% Rise in Total Value Locked
- CoinDesk: Is Friend.tech a Friend or Foe? A Dive Into the New Social App Driving Millions in Trading Volume
- Halborn: Explained: The Wintermute Hack (September 2022)
- Forbes: Layer 2 Wars Heat Up As Coinbase Launches Base
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57 min - Anita Posch on Why ‘Bitcoin Is a Tool for Freedom’ – Especially in Africa - Ep. 531
Educator Anita Posch has spent months on the ground in Africa onboarding new users into the world of Bitcoin. In the West, bitcoin may seem extraneous; but in her telling, bitcoin in Zimbabwe, Zambia, and other African countries is essential. “Bitcoin can be one of the solutions for people who are disempowered, who are outlawed, the misfits,” says Posch. “Bitcoin is for them because no one can take it away from you.”
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights:- what Anita does for Bitcoin education and why she was inspired to do this
- how people in developing countries are constantly getting scammed
- how the Central Bank of Zimbabwe acts as an intermediary in business operations
- whether people in these countries use BTC or stablecoins for their day to day expenses
- what the differences are between the several Bitcoin communities around the world
- how in Zimbabwe people could get arrested for transacting in Bitcoin
- why Bitcoin is essential to human rights, according to Anita
- whether Bitcoin can help to tackle the issue of discrimination against women, particularly in finance
- why Anita is “very sad” about the launch of Worldcoin
- why she was against Bitcoin Ordinals in the first place and whether she has changed her mind
- what Anita’s new Bitcoin learning program aims to accomplish
Thank you to our sponsors!- Crypto.com
- Arbitrum Foundation
- TOKEN2049
Guest:Anita Posch, founder of Bitcoin for Fairness, author of (L)earn Bitcoin, and host of the Anita Posch show.Online Learning and Scholarship Program- Website
- 45min Documentary: How Bitcoin Enforces Human Rights
- 13 min Keynote: Bitcoin empowers Africa and Africans empower Bitcoin
Links- Previous coverage of Unchained mentioned in the episode:
- Orb Outrage: Worldcoin Cofounder Defends Project Amid Backlash
- Why CoinFund Believes Worldcoin Could Become More Popular Than Bitcoin
- Bitcoin’s BRC-20 Mania: Is It Sustainable?
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1 hr 4 min - Will PayPal's PYUSD Steal Market Share From Tether and Circle? - Ep. 530
A major player has entered the stablecoin wars. PayPal went deeper down the crypto rabbithole this week with the launch of its Ethereum-based PYUSD. The dollar-backed stablecoin now puts PayPal in competition with the likes of Tether and Circle for quickly sending value around the world on-chain. José Fernández da Ponte, PayPal’s crypto SVP, joins the show to unpack how the fintech giant is building a long-term strategy around blockchain-based payments.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights:
- why PayPal decided to launch a stablecoin
- how long it will take for stablecoins to reach mainstream adoption and what the advantages of stablecoins are
- how PYUSD will differentiate from other giants in the stablecoin space such as USDT and USDC
- whether the U.S. stablecoin bill influenced the launch of PYUSD
- why stablecoins should be regulated at the state level
- whether PayPal plans to launch stablecoins pegged to other fiat currencies
- how Paxos will provide attestation reports for PYUSD
- why Jose thinks gaming is a huge opportunity for stablecoin payments
- what the rationale was for launching an ERC-20 on Ethereum
- how PayPal plans to monetize the stablecoin
- why PayPal’s expectations for PYUSD in the short-term are “moderate”
Thank you to our sponsors!- Crypto.com
- Arbitrum Foundation
- Thales DAO
Guest- José Fernández da Ponte, SVP of Blockchain, Crypto and Digital Currencies at PayPal
- Unchained: PayPal Launches PYUSD Stablecoin Built on Ethereum
- CoinDesk:
- PayPal’s Real Stablecoin Strategy: It Wants to Earn Interest on Your Deposits
- Congresswoman Maxine Waters Says She’s ‘Deeply Concerned’ About PayPal’s New Stablecoin
- U.S. Stablecoin Bill Takes Big Step Despite Fight From Democrats, White House
- Paxos Has Other 'White Label' Stablecoin Opportunities in the Works in Addition to PayPal USD
- Blockworks: PayPal’s new stablecoin stirs centralization criticism
- CNBC: PayPal is trying to drag its 435 million users into the $120 billion stablecoin market — here's why
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41 min - The Chopping Block: Curve Crisis Concludes With a Whimper, PayPal’s PYUSD Raises New Questions - Ep. 529
Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest news. This week, a quiet conclusion to that Curve thing everyone was animated about. Plus, major developments from Web2 giant PayPal as it continues its journey down the crypto rabbithole. Also, is Maker’s juiced DAI Savings Rate the new Anchor? The gang discusses.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, TuneIn, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Show highlights:- how The Chopping Block got that sweet, sweet Red Bull money
- what to make of the Curve hacker’s message after they returned the funds
- does Curve trying to dox the hacker proves that Arkham’s model is right?
- the lessons from the Curve situation and whether DeFi needs to change
- how DeFi protocols could prevent situations where a single entity holds a significant percentage of a token’s total supply
- how the enhanced DAI Savings Rate triggered PTSD from other stablecoins (ahem, Anchor)
- what the consequences are of increasing the DSR
- the gang’s prediction on how much PYUSD will be minted by the end of 2023
HostsHaseeb Qureshi, managing partner at DragonflyRobert Leshner, founder of CompoundTom Schmidt, general partner at DragonflyTarun Chitra, managing partner at Robot Ventures
DisclosuresLinks- Unchained:
- $52 Million Drained in Curve Finance Pools Exploit
- Curve Founder’s Liquidation Could Trigger Chaos for DeFi
- Curve Exploit Results in Largest MEV Block Rewards in Ethereum’s History
- PayPal Launches PYUSD Stablecoin Built on Ethereum
- MakerDAO’s Spark Protocol Blocks VPN Users
- Curve Opens $1.85 Million Bounty to Identify Hacker
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56 min
About Unchained
From the publisher's feed
Crypto assets and blockchain technology are about to transform every trust-based interaction of our lives, from financial services to identity to the Internet of Things. In this podcast, host Laura…
Shin, an independent journalist covering all things crypto, talks with industry pioneers about how crypto assets and blockchains will change the way we earn, spend and invest our money. Tune in to find out how Web 3.0, the decentralized web, will revolutionize our world.