Unchained

Regulators try to freeze illicit stablecoins, but the money's usually gone before the freeze lands. The hosts on why crypto sanctions keep failing.

Thanks to our sponsor!

👉 Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at⁠⁠ https://cape.co/unchained⁠⁠ (use code: UNCHAINED).

A new academic paper from researchers across several Chinese universities makes a striking claim: a stablecoin freeze isn't really a freeze until the transaction lands in a block — which means the freeze itself can be front-run, and sanctions enforcement becomes a market-structure problem.

Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le — three general counsels who live where law meets code — work through what it means that Tether and Circle now do much of the government's freezing onchain. The paper's numbers unsettle them: by its count, across eight years only nine freezes caught the money midway.

From there the hosts widen out: the SEC and CFTC's joint push to harmonize margin rules, your ChatGPT logs turning up as evidence in the courtroom, the Legion lawsuit testing whether export law can govern who logs in to an AI model, and the Bernstein ruling that made code protected speech.

They close with a sober CLARITY Act update, a new CBDC-ban roadblock tangled in an unrelated veto fight, and why the end of MiCA's transition period in Europe might be the week's real good news.

Hosts:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vy Le⁠⁠ - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda

Timestamps

🧊 11:39 Vy on ordering power as sanctioning power and the paper behind it

⚡ 14:43 Why a stablecoin freeze can itself be front run

⚖️ 22:09 The third party doctrine and the risk of deputizing crypto's neutral actors

📣 26:40 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained

💻 27:36 Jessi on why AI in the courtroom is really a software control story

🚪 30:13 The Legion lawsuit, export law, and the Bernstein code-as-speech fight

🔒 37:14 ChatGPT logs as courtroom evidence and why your AI chats aren't private

🏔️ 42:20 The CLARITY Act update: why KK is even more bearish on passage

🇪🇺 47:48 Why MiCA's transition deadline is the week's crypto good news

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The crew is joined by Selini Capital’s Jordi Alexander to break down Open USD, the no-fee stablecoin from a 140-firm consortium spanning Visa, Mastercard, BlackRock, Google and Coinbase, all aimed at the Circle and Tether duopoly. Plus Saylor’s new Digital Credit framework for MicroStrategy, the Ansem-fueled memecoin comeback, and ENS reigniting the “DAOs are fake” debate.

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. Joining the panel “at the moment of max pain” is Jordi Alexander, CIO of Selini Capital. First up: MicroStrategy in crisis, with MSTR down about 30% in five days and STRC hitting $71, and Saylor’s answer, a new Digital Credit framework with an 18-month cash cushion and a jumbo dividend hike to 12%. Then the headline story, Open USD: a no-fee stablecoin from a 140-member consortium including Visa, Mastercard, BlackRock, Google and Coinbase, built to break the Circle and Tether duopoly.

The back half covers the memecoin comeback around the Ansem coin, and ENS reigniting the “DAOs are fake” debate after Nick Johnson single-handedly blocked a governance vote, before the crew debates whether consortia are just DAOs in a suit. Let’s get into it.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Show highlights

🔹 MSTR falls about 30% in five days and STRC hits $71. Saylor answers with a new “Digital Credit” framework, an 18-month cash cushion, and a jumbo dividend hike to 12%

🔹 Jordi calls the death-spiral panic overblown: “Luna was worthless; you cannot print Bitcoin”

🔹 Tarun stands by “Luna for suits,” comparing STRC’s marketing to Anchor, right down to the AI ad of Saylor escaping the Titanic

🔹 Open USD launches: a no-fee, no-cap stablecoin backed by 140 firms including Visa, Mastercard, BlackRock, Google and Coinbase, aimed at the Circle and Tether duopoly

🔹 Circle drops about 7 to 8% on the news, and Tether’s Paolo Ardoino “welcomes” a real competitor, the same bit he ran on Libra

🔹 Haseeb’s take: a 140-member consortium is “a signed petition,” good for expanding the market but not for taking Tether’s or Circle’s turf

🔹 Tarun says it all comes down to the revenue share. Set the wrong rules and someone just farms the rake

🔹 The Ansem coin sparks a memecoin revival, a roughly $100M cap the market hasn’t seen in a long time

🔹 ENS reignites the DAO debate as Nick Johnson blocks a treasury restructuring with about 50% of the vote. Are consortia just DAOs in a suit?

Hosts

⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly 

⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly 

⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures

Guest

⭐️Jordi Alexander, CEO of Selini Capital

Disclosures

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

01:07 The DeSci beef and Tarun’s Ponzi crusade

03:30 MicroStrategy in crisis: Saylor’s Digital Credit reset

09:34 Is STRC still “Luna for suits”?

19:24 Open USD: 140 firms take on Circle and Tether

29:42 Why a 140-member consortium is just a “signed petition”

42:13 Coinbase’s two masters: USDC vs Open USD

47:01 The memecoin comeback and the Ansem coin

51:57 ENS blows up the DAO: Nick Johnson blocks the vote

57:26 DAOs vs consortia, and can AI save governance?

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Laura Shin has reported on crypto scams since the early days and wrote one of the first stories on sim swaps. That did not stop a spear-phishing attempt from getting her to download software and run a terminal command before she caught it.

Austin Campbell, Ram Ahluwalia, and Chris Perkins turn her near miss into a practical defense playbook, then debate whether self-custody still makes sense for anyone with a public crypto profile.

Hosts:

Austin Campbell, Host of Bits + Bips, Founder of Zero Knowledge Group, and Adjunct Professor at NYU Stern

Ram Ahluwalia, Co-host of Bits + Bips and CEO of Lumida

Chris Perkins, Co-host of Bits + Bips and Head of Franklin Crypto

Guest:

Laura Shin - Founder and Host of Unchained

This clip is from a longer conversation on crypto security and social engineering. Full episode here: https://youtube.com/live/yKHaE6xMZsE 

We go live every Monday - subscribe to catch it live.

Sponsors:

👉 Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained   (use code: UNCHAINED).

Chapters:

🎣 00:00 The fake podcast invite that nearly caught Laura Shin

💻 00:26 How far it went: a download, then a terminal command

🛡️ 05:02 Austin's hard rules for when someone puts time pressure on you

🏦 06:36 Why Ram says ETFs now beat self-custody for public figures

🥷 07:39 Chris on getting hacked and losing his Snoop Dogg NFT

🤖 10:41 Why the same playbook is coming for banks via AI voice clones

🦅 11:33 Chris on letting the private sector recover stolen crypto

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Is it Ethereum or bust? Ansgar Dietrichs makes the case that only Ethereum can anchor the financial system, and admits ETH still lacks a clear value story.

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Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Fidelity⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠crypto.fidelitycareers.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

The Ethereum Foundation is deliberately shrinking its role, and five former researchers have launched Ethlabs to take over the work they worry will otherwise go undone.

Ansgar Dietrichs, co-founder of Ethlabs, joins Laura Shin to lay out the split: the Foundation will protect what should not change, while Ethlabs pushes the parts of Ethereum that must evolve. He makes the case that the global economy is moving onchain, and that Ethereum is the only candidate to sit at the center of it, or no one will.

The conversation traces why ETH the asset has been stuck between $1,000 and $5,000 for five years, why Dietrichs thinks EIP-1559 and cheap blockspace were never intentional choices, how Ethlabs divides labor with the Foundation, Etherealize, and Consensys, and what DeFi founders like Uniswap's Hayden Adams actually need. The throughline is a single missing ingredient he keeps returning to: intentionality about what ETH is actually for.

Host:

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ansgar Dietrichs - Co-founder of Ethlabs

Timestamps

🏛️ 01:26 Why the Ethereum Foundation is stepping back and the gap Ethlabs fills

🌐 04:00 What Ethereum would look like if Ethlabs succeeds

🧱 07:56 Why Ethlabs is scaling the L1 and fixing interop at the same time

🤝 10:48 How Ethlabs divides labor with the EF, Etherealize, and Consensys

📣 18:34 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could shape the future of finance at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com

🔐 19:16 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained

💸 20:15 Why ETH has been stuck waiting five years for its next act

🔗 24:24 Does L1 activity still drive ETH's value, and why ETH's interop lags

🔥 27:25 Why Ansgar says cheap blockspace and EIP-1559 were never intentional

🪙 33:27 Why being an Ethereum L2 isn't yet the superpower it should be

🦄 36:17 The culture at the EF and what kind of culture Ethlabs will have

🏢 39:41 The accountability loop: a two to three year runway and who Ethlabs serves

🛠️ 45:33 What DeFi founders actually need from Ethereum, per Hayden and others

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Carmen Li thought it was a joke when a perpetual futures marketplace asked her to become the market maker for her own index. It wasn't.

In this segment from Bits + Bips: The Interview, she walks Steven Ehrlich through the requests that alarmed her, a daughter analogy for why trading your own benchmark destroys neutrality, the manipulation risks she sees in crypto's index practices, and why she insists any perp venue on her index be regulated and guardrailed.

Host:

Steven Ehrlich - Host of Bits + Bips and Head of Research at Sharplink

Guest:

Carmen Li - CEO of Silicon Data and Compute Exchange

This clip is from a longer conversation on GPUs, compute markets, and crypto. Full episode here: https://www.youtube.com/live/rYDiPneJv20?si=fjS7bSd-bJ6c6tYb 

We go live every Monday - subscribe to catch it live.

Sponsors

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

Chapters

🤝 00:00 The perp venues circling her index, and the request that immediately felt off

🚩 01:27 The ask she thought had to be a joke: become the market maker of your own index

👧 02:47 Carmen's daughter analogy that nails why trading your own index breaks neutrality

🛡️ 04:47 The guardrails that keep it honest: external audits and hard internal trading rules

🔀 05:36 Why you can't just swap one index for another and keep on trading

⚖️ 06:26 Her one demand for any perp venue building on her index: regulated and ring fenced

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A regulated exchange suing its own regulator almost never happens. The hosts trace why CME did it, and why the CFTC may have better odds than crypto Twitter thinks.

Thanks to our sponsor!

👉 Fidelity: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: ⁠https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com⁠.

👉 Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at⁠ https://cape.co/unchained⁠ (use code: UNCHAINED).

CME has sued the CFTC, its own primary regulator, a rare move for a regulated exchange, landing the day after longtime CEO Terry Duffy announced he would step down. The trigger: the CFTC's approval of a narrowly tailored Kalshi Bitcoin perpetual, the first true perp cleared onshore.

Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le untangle CME's two arguments, that perps are swaps rather than futures, and that the agency acted arbitrarily by skipping notice and comment and reversing its own prior position in a single day. They weigh whether the case can win, and why the process may matter more than the outcome.

From there, the panel digs into Cboe's prediction-style S&P 500 contracts headed to Schwab's customers and the binary-option-versus-swap line. With a recent poll finding 43% of Americans believe AI could "literally end the human race," Jessi argues crypto can't afford to dismiss the people who become its juries, judges, and voters.

The conversation covers the CME lawsuit, prediction markets arriving on Wall Street, a viral $1 to $5 million crypto legal job, and the growing public backlash against AI.

Hosts:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at StarkWare. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vy Le⁠ - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda

Timestamps

⚖️ 04:38 CME's two arguments, and why "future delivery" could reach the Supreme Court

🧠 12:51 Why process and durability may matter more than the outcome

🚪 19:54 How the Kalshi order opened the floodgates for self-certified perps

📊 23:48 Cboe's S&P 500 prediction contracts head to Schwab, and the binary-option-versus-swap line

🛡️ 33:27 Cape: Stop SIM swaps and get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained

💙 34:22 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com

💼 35:05 The Pump.fun chief legal officer job and its $1 to $5 million salary

🤖 37:02 Why the AI vibe check has turned bleak and why crypto should care

🐶 47:10 This week's good news: the Marlins hunt for the hot dog meme

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Vinny Lingham warned 18 months ago that Michael Saylor would harm Bitcoin more than FTX. Now he maps how the Strategy empire breaks and the one move that could slow the bleed.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Fidelity⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠crypto.fidelitycareers.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

Strategy's stock has fallen over 80% from its November 2024 high, its STRC preferred trades well below par, and a fresh $335 million raise has done nothing to restore confidence.

Vinny Lingham, co-founder of Praxos Capital, tweeted in October 2024 that Michael Saylor would do more damage to Bitcoin than FTX. On Unchained, he argues the collapse was always predictable, and that this is not a Ponzi but what he calls a 'Saylor scheme.'

Lingham maps how the empire breaks once MSTR trades at a discount to mNAV, why the 32-Bitcoin sale and the $1.5 billion buyback of 2029 converts blew Saylor's runway, and why $6.7 billion in convertible notes raises default risk by 2028. He also weighs a Soros-style attack theory and the switch to bimonthly dividends.

His fix is the one thing Saylor won't do: stop buying, stop diluting, wait it out. The question is who removes the biggest buyer of Bitcoin, him or the market.

Host:

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vinny Lingham - Co-founder of Praxos Capital

Timestamps

📉 01:11 Strategy in free fall: why Vinny says the collapse was always coming

🪤 06:24 Why buying back 2029 debt blew Saylor's runway

₿ 07:36 The '32 years of dividends' claim and what a deeper bear market does to it

🏚️ 10:23 How the MSTR empire actually breaks: the discount-to-mNAV trap

🎯 13:35 Why is Strategy faltering? Is it leverage or a Soros-style attack on MSTR?

💙 16:38 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained

💚 17:32 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com

📆 18:15 Why switching to bimonthly dividends makes the problem worse

⏳ 19:29 The $6.7B convertible-note overhang and the 2028 default risk

🛟 22:07 Can MSTR be saved, and the most likely outcome from here

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An anti-MEV activist spent weeks building 66 fake contracts to trap the sandwich bot jaredfromsubway.eth. Then jared's operators did the one thing nobody expected.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsors!

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

A new R&D lab called Ethlabs has split from the Ethereum Foundation, backed by Bitmine and Joe Lubin. Its first stated goal is solving a '15 minute finality problem' that none of the hosts can quite explain the point of.

Kain Warwick, Taylor Monahan, and Luca Netz ask whether a breakaway staffed largely by ex-EF people can really escape the EF's habits, or just rebuild a smaller version of them. 

Then the conversation turns to fomo's $75M raise from non-crypto VCs, and why a trading app that never calls itself a wallet may have cracked the onboarding flow the rest of crypto keeps getting wrong.

The hosts also trace a CryptoPunks judge ordering a self-represented plaintiff to handwrite filings to stop the AI slop, the anti-MEV activist who trapped sandwich bot jaredfromsubway.eth with 66 fake contracts, and the WSJ's claim that Polymarket paid creators to stage fake winning bets.

Hosts:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Taylor Monahan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Security Expert

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Luca Netz⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, CEO of Pudgy Penguins

🧪 02:06 Ethlabs breaks from the EF: what the new R&D lab is actually for

🤔 03:57 Why the 'fifteen minute finality' framing baffles the hosts

📈 15:40 fomo's $75M raise and why a no-token trading app pulled it off

🧱 21:45 The wallet lesson: why building for trading beats building for custody

💙 30:48 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained

⚖️ 31:44 The CryptoPunks lawsuit where a judge ordered AI-slop filings handwritten

🥪 41:04 What a sandwich bot is and why jaredfromsubway.eth became infamous

🪤 45:34 How an anti-MEV activist trapped Jared with 66 fake token contracts

🏛️ 50:46 Why Jared running to the courts under the CFAA makes no sense

😤 56:36 Kain on the exploiter who cries foul when someone finally steals from him

📺 59:20 The WSJ claim that Polymarket paid creators to stage fake winning bets

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The crew debates whether Saylor's STRC preferred shares are "Luna for suits," unpacks the ETH Labs spin-out and Ethereum Foundation layoffs, breaks down the CME's lawsuit against the CFTC to kill domestic perps, and weighs whether Meta's leaked prediction market Arena is a real threat to Polymarket.

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. This week, Saylor's STRC preferred shares, which have broken below their $100 target. Laura argues it's a confidence crisis, Tarun calls it "Luna for suits," and Haseeb pushes back — there's no death spiral, Saylor can just defer dividends and "burn the boat." Then the Ethereum Foundation shakeup: ETH Labs spinning out with seven senior EF members while the EF lays off 20% of its headcount.

The back half covers the CME suing the CFTC to block domestic perps — which Haseeb frames as "suing for the right to not compete" — and Meta's leaked prediction market Arena, where Tom reveals this is Meta's third or fourth attempt at prediction markets. Let's get into it.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Show highlights

🔹 Saylor's STRC preferred shares break below $100 target — Tarun calls it "Luna for suits"

🔹 Haseeb pushes back: no death spiral, no margin calls — Saylor can defer dividends and "burn the boat"

🔹 Tom reveals Strategy execs are cold-calling crypto funds to sell them STRC — "very Luna"

🔹 ETH Labs spins out with 7 senior EF members as the Foundation lays off ~20% of headcount

🔹 CME sues CFTC to block domestic perps — Haseeb: "suing for the right to not compete"

🔹 Haseeb proposes 100-year futures as a workaround to route around the lawsuit

🔹 Meta leaks prediction market Arena — Tom reveals this is Meta's third or fourth attempt at prediction markets

🔹 Tarun argues prediction markets will be viewed as information social networks within five years

Hosts

⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly 

⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly 

⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures

Guest

⭐️Laura Shin, Journalist, Author of ‘The Cryptopians,’ Founder and CEO of Unchained

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

01:10 STRC & Strategy: Saylor "Luna for suits"

12:33 No death spiral — burn the boat

17:06 Strategy execs cold-calling crypto funds

20:06 Ethereum Foundation shakeup & ETH Labs spin-out

27:33 ETH Labs is the ghost of Tomasz

35:20 CME sues CFTC to block domestic perps

44:44 100-year futures as a workaround

50:29 Meta's prediction market "Arena"

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Three years ago, Chris Perkins sat across from Terry Duffy in Congress and made the case for perpetuals. Duffy pushed back — hard. Now Duffy's CME is suing the very regulator that finally allowed them.

The CME argues Bitcoin perpetual futures are really swaps and should carry far more collateral. Chris traces the Dodd-Frank history that created the swap-versus-future divide, and Austin Campbell lays out why picking this fight in a post-Chevron court could backfire on the incumbent. Is a perpetual a swap or a future, and who gets to decide?

Hosts:

Austin Campbell - Host of Bits + Bips, Founder of Zero Knowledge Group, and Adjunct Professor at NYU Stern

Ram Ahluwalia - Co-host of Bits + Bips and CEO of Lumida

Chris Perkins - Co-host of Bits + Bips and Head of Franklin Crypto

This clip is from a longer conversation on tokenization, the AI trade, and the CME's lawsuit against the CFTC. Full episode here: https://youtube.com/live/oSiOeWq_pKE 

We go live every Monday at 4:30pm ET - subscribe to catch it live. 

Sponsor

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

Chapters

⚖️ 00:00 The incumbent sues its own regulator: what the CME is actually claiming

📜 01:22 Chris on Terry Duffy, and the testimony fight that set this up

🏛️ 02:12 The Dodd-Frank origin story, traced back to the 2009 G20

⏱️ 03:12 Why a 'swap' costs five days of margin and a future costs two

🌊 04:42 Constrain leverage onshore and watch it flee offshore

⚠️ 05:15 Austin: why the CME should be careful what it wishes for

🧨 06:26 The Dodd-Frank footnote where Congress admits it punted

🤝 08:20 ICE, OKX, and Kraken: where the dance partners line up

🎯 09:12 What the market really needs out of all this

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