Under the Rug at Work

Some suffering at work is part of being challenged, learning and growing. But how much of it is actually necessary?

In this episode, we look at the friction, expectations and ways of working that can contribute to burnout and ask what could change if workplaces took the time to understand what’s really causing people to struggle.

Welcome to Under the Rug at Work, where we shine light on the things that are normally swept under the rug. On this episode, our Founder and Chief Courage Officer, Nicole Turnbull, chats with Kate McNeill about reducing unnecessary suffering at work.

Kate is the founder of Kate McNeill Consulting, also known as the Burnout Lady. She runs workshops and programs focused on preventing and addressing burnout, with burnout and psychosocial health and safety the two main areas of her current work. Kate brings together her policy background, psychological research and lived experience to help organisations understand what’s going on for them and identify possible solutions.

Kate shares how workplace expectations and ways of working can contribute to unnecessary suffering, from the conditions that lead to burnout to the extra friction neurodiverse workers can experience. Drawing on her own lived experience, she discusses masking, workplace accommodations and why the default way of doing things doesn’t necessarily work for everyone.

Nicole and Kate also explore changing expectations across generations and why making time for genuine conversations can help workplaces better understand what people need.

In this episode, they cover:

- What contributes to burnout and unnecessary suffering at work

- Neurodiversity, workplace accommodations and masking

- Changing expectations of work across generations

- Why consultation and conversation matter

Listen to the full conversation on the Under the Rug at Work podcast, available now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube. Don’t forget to subscribe!

Connect with Kate:

⁠LinkedIn⁠

⁠Instagram⁠

⁠Website

Avoiding a difficult conversation may feel easier, but workplace issues rarely resolve themselves.

Welcome to Under the Rug at Work, where we shine light on the things that are normally swept under the rug. On this episode, our Founder and Chief Courage Officer, Nicole Turnbull, chats with Jennifer Bicknell about preventing workplace disputes by having difficult conversations early.

Jennifer is the founder of Bicknell Law & Consulting and an “unlawyery” lawyer with more than 30 years of experience. After seeing how many legal disputes could have been prevented through earlier conversations, she shifted her focus from dispute resolution to dispute prevention.

Nicole and Jennifer discuss why leaders avoid conversations about performance and behaviour, the risks of waiting too long and how clear, fair communication can stop small issues from escalating.

You can subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube, and share this episode with someone who’s ready to address workplace issues before they escalate.

Connect with Jennifer:

LinkedIn

Instagram

Facebook

Website

The wellness industry is booming, yet burnout, stress and exhaustion continue to rise. So what if we've been focusing on the wrong solution?

Welcome to Under the Rug at Work, where we shine light on the things that are normally swept under the rug. In this episode, our Founder and Chief Courage Officer, Nicole Turnbull, chats with Amy Green, speaker, author and wellbeing strategist, about her latest book, The Wellness Paradox, and why workplaces need to rethink how they approach wellbeing.

Drawing on her background as a teacher, school leader and wellbeing expert, Amy explains why workplace wellbeing isn't about asking workers to be more resilient or adding another wellness initiative. Instead, it's about having the courage to identify what's really causing stress, burnout and overwhelm, then redesigning work to address those root causes.

In this episode, we discuss:

- Why wellbeing programs treat symptoms instead of causes

- How leaders can uncover the real causes of burnout

- The three questions every leader should ask

- Why changing the conditions of work matters more than changing the worker

This conversation challenges many of the assumptions we've made about wellbeing at work and offers practical ways for leaders and organisations to build healthier, more sustainable workplaces.

You can subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube, and share this episode with someone who's ready to rethink how wellbeing is approached at work.

Connect with Amy 👇

LinkedIn

Instagram

Facebook

YouTube

Website

Change doesn't fail because people resist it. More often, it fails because people are left out of the process.

Welcome to Under the Rug at Work, where we shine light on the things that are normally swept under the rug. In this episode, our Founder and Chief Courage Officer, Nicole Turnbull, chats with Lata Hamilton about why so many workplace change initiatives fall short, and what leaders can do differently to bring people with them.

Lata Hamilton is a Change Leadership and Confidence Mentor, author of the best-selling book Pioneer Your Career Change, creator of the Leading Successful Change program, and Founder and CEO of Passion Pioneers. Having worked on major organisational change across some of Australia's largest companies, Lata shares why successful change is about more than processes and project plans. It's about engaging both the head and the heart.

Together, Nicole and Lata discuss why change so often feels like it's being done to workers instead of with them, why leaders play a critical role in helping people navigate uncertainty, and how organisations can build greater acceptance of change in a world where transformation is constant.

In this episode, you'll learn:

💠Why change initiatives often fail

💠Why involving workers leads to better outcomes

💠The critical role leaders play in change

💠Practical ways to build change acceptance

Subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube to stay up to date with new episodes. Then share this episode with someone who's leading change, navigating uncertainty, or looking to create more human-centred workplaces.

Connect with Lata:

LinkedIn

Instagram

Insight Timer

Facebook

Read Lata’s “Pioneer Your Career Change” book

When safety failures end up in court, the consequences extend far beyond legal penalties. Investigations, leadership scrutiny, personal liability and years of disruption can have a lasting impact on organisations and the people within them.

Welcome to Under the Rug at Work, where we shine light on the things that are normally swept under the rug. On this episode, our Founder and Chief Courage Officer, Nicole Turnbull, chats with Tony Morris from SafeTM about what happens when safety ends up in court.

Tony is an ex-workplace safety prosecution lawyer for WorkCover NSW, an ex-police prosecutor and former detective in the NSW Police Force. Having spent 40 years working in law and related fields, he brings a unique perspective on workplace safety, psychosocial risk and leadership accountability. He is also an ambassador of the Psychosocial Safety and Leadership Institute. 

In this episode, Nicole and Tony discuss:

💠Why good organisations still end up in court

💠The difference between having systems and maintaining them

💠What really happens after a serious workplace incident

💠What officers need to know about their legal responsibilities

This episode unpacks what regulators look for, how accountability is determined and why the strongest safety systems are the ones that are consistently maintained.

You can subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube, and share this episode with someone who is responsible for creating safer workplaces.

Connect with Tony ⬇️

LinkedIn, Tony Morris

SafeTM Website

Sometimes the harm isn’t the original issue - it’s what happens after someone speaks up.

Welcome to Under the Rug at Work, where we shine light on the things that are normally swept under the rug. On this episode, our Founder and Chief Courage Officer, Nicole Turnbull, chats with Jo Tarnawsky about workplace harm, organisational justice and the power of a genuine apology.

Jo Tarnawsky is a former diplomat, senior executive to the Governor-General and former Chief of Staff to Australia’s Deputy Prime Minister. Across a 25-year career in government, Jo worked at the highest levels of leadership and decision-making, witnessing firsthand how power, silence and workplace culture shape people’s experiences at work.

In this deeply personal conversation, Jo shares her own experience of raising concerns about workplace behaviour in Parliament House, the fallout that followed and why the organisational response caused more harm than the original issue. Together, Nicole and Jo discuss why organisations often move into protection mode when concerns are raised, how poor organisational justice escalates harm and why a simple apology can make a powerful difference.

They also unpack what leaders, HR teams and organisations can do differently to respond with empathy, fairness and humanity before issues turn into long and damaging battles.

In this episode, we cover:

💠Why organisational responses can create a “second injury”

💠The role of apology, dignity and acknowledgement in workplace conflict

💠How fear and reputation management drive poor workplace responses

💠What leaders can do to create safer, more trauma-informed workplaces

You can subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube, and share this episode with someone who’s navigating workplace conflict, leading teams or trying to create a safer workplace culture.

Connect with Jo:

Instagram

LinkedIn

Substack

Website

Grief at work is often avoided, rushed or handed off, but the way we respond can shape whether someone feels supported or alone.

Welcome to Under the Rug at Work, where we shine light on the things that are normally swept under the rug. On this episode, our Founder and Chief Courage Officer, Nicole Turnbull, chats with Sally Healey and Jessie Williams, founders of Grief First Aid, about why workplaces fall flat on grief and what better support can look like.

Sally and Jessie share how their own lived experience, research and workplace backgrounds led them to create an Australian-based model for grief support at work. They explain why grief is not something to fix, why it should not be automatically treated as a mental health condition and why workers often need trusted colleagues and leaders who know how to respond with care, choice and clear boundaries.

In this episode, we explore:

💠Why grief is so often swept under the rug at work

💠What leaders can say and do when a worker is grieving

💠Why silence, avoidance and “fixing” can cause harm

💠How Grief First Aid helps workplaces build grief literacy

This episode is a powerful reminder that grief is part of life, and workplaces need the skills, processes and courage to respond with humanity.

You can subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube, and share this episode with someone who’s ready to better support workers through grief.

Connect with Sally & Jessie 👇

Grief First Aid

LinkedIn, Jessie Williams

LinkedIn, Sally Healey

LinkedIn, Grief First Aid

Instagram, Grief First Aid

Autoimmune disease is often invisible at work, but its impact on workers, teams and leadership decisions is anything but.

Welcome to Under the Rug at Work, where we shine light on the things that are normally swept under the rug. On this episode, our Founder and Chief Courage Officer, Nicole Turnbull, chats with Fay Calderone about autoimmune disease at work, and why this is a conversation more workplaces need to have.

Fay Calderone is an employment lawyer, author of two books on psychosocial safety at work, and a partner at Hall & Wilcox. Drawing on both her professional expertise and lived experience with autoimmune disease, Fay shares what it means to manage chronic illness in high-pressure work environments, and where workplaces are still getting it wrong.

In this conversation, Nicole and Fay talk about the realities of invisible illness at work, how stress can contribute to flare-ups and disease progression, and why trust is essential if workers are going to feel safe enough to disclose what they need. They also talk about what supportive leadership looks like in practice, from flexibility and reasonable adjustments to more proactive risk assessment.

In this episode, we cover:

💠Why autoimmune disease isn’t part of most workplace risk conversations

💠How stress can trigger flare-ups and impact health at work

💠Why workers don’t always disclose and what builds trust

💠Where workplaces respond well and where they fall short

You can subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube, and share this episode with someone who’s trying to build a workplace where people feel safe to speak up and be supported.

Connect with Fay 👇

www.instagram.com/faycalderone25

www.linkedin.com/in/faycalderone

www.youtube.com/@FayCalderone25

https://faycalderone.com

https://faycalderone.com/books

Leadership is never just about strategy, titles or decision-making on paper. It is also about navigating the hidden dynamics, quiet tensions and power plays that shape what really happens at work.

Welcome to Under the Rug at Work, where we shine light on the things that are normally swept under the rug. On this episode, our Founder and Chief Courage Officer, Nicole Turnbull, chats with Ros Cardinal about the unspoken layer of leadership, and why so much of leadership happens in the gap between what is said out loud and what is really going on behind the scenes.

Ros Cardinal is an executive coach and facilitator, and the founder of Shaping Change. With a background in organisational development, leadership development and executive coaching, Ros works with leaders and organisations to navigate strategy, culture, power dynamics and the unseen layers that influence decision-making and performance

In this conversation, Nicole and Ros unpack the invisible org chart that sits alongside the formal one, how politics and influence shape outcomes, and why leadership can feel far more complex than people expect. They explore the hidden trade-offs leaders make, the impact of misalignment at the top, and what it takes to bring more honesty, courage and transparency into workplace conversations.

In this episode, they cover:

💠The invisible dynamics that shape leadership and decision-making

💠Why strategy can fail when leadership teams are misaligned

💠How hidden tensions affect culture, trust and psychological safety

💠What leaders can do to surface what is not being said

You can subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube, and share this episode with someone who’s navigating the unseen pressures of leadership.

Connect with Ros 👇

www.shapingchange.com.au

www.linkedin.com/in/rosalind-cardinal-62520315

www.facebook.com/ShapingChange

www.instagram.com/roscardinal

Play is not a distraction from work - it helps people think clearly, connect with others and adapt when things feel high pressure.

Welcome to Under the Rug at Work, where we shine light on the things that are normally swept under the rug. On this episode, our Founder and Chief Courage Officer, Nicole Turnbull ‪at Neon Shed‬, chats about why play is necessary at work, especially in a world where pressure, technology and burnout are shaping how we live and work.

She is joined by Dara Simkin, Australia’s leading voice in play at work and founder of ‪Culture Hero and Tané Hunter, a system scientist, science communicator and co-founder of ‪Future Crunch. Together they wrote Full Stack Human, a book about how we stay human in high-pressure workplaces and fast-changing times.

Nicole, Dara and Tané talk about why so many workers feel constantly overloaded, how high-stakes workplace cultures drain people’s energy and why play is often misunderstood as frivolous when it actually supports learning, creativity and connection. They also discuss why burnout is often treated as an individual problem rather than a systems issue, and what leaders can do to create environments where workers have the capacity to think, contribute and adapt.

In this episode, we cover:

💠 Why constant pressure at work is driving burnout

💠 How play supports creativity, learning and connection

💠 The difference between serious and diversionary play

💠 Why capacity, permission and psychological safety matter at work

You can subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube, and share this episode with someone who’s feeling stretched at work or trying to create a more human workplace.

Connect with Dara Simkin & Tané Hunter 👇

LinkedIn - Dara Simkin

Website - Culture Hero

LinkedIn - Tané Hunter

Website - Future Crunch

➡️ ⁠Purchase their book Full Stack Human