(UN)LEARN

How do we navigate moments of profound rupture without losing connection to who we are? Ahead of the Toronto Biennial of Art, renowned curator Allison Glenn joins Deep to examine the concept of "rupture" across environmental, historical, and personal timelines. Drawing on the lived experiences of artists confronting wildfires and floods, they explore nature’s resilience as a mirror for our own capacity to endure. Together, they consider the arbitrary lines drawn on maps, the experience of disassociation, and the essential work of building trust to ensure art remains open, accessible, and grounded in community. Allison shares the discipline of balancing decisive professional clarity with the trust required to let go of how things unfold. In confronting the cultural "need to be liked," she speaks on removing the ego so the ideas themselves can take centre stage. The conversation culminates in a core realisation: that we enter life already "knowing"—spending years conditioned into rigid patterns of thought, only to embark on the journey of unlearning to return to what was within us from the very beginning. Allison Glenn is an internationally acclaimed curator and writer whose work investigates the intersections of history, art, and public space. Widely recognised for curating landmark exhibitions—including the historic 'Promise, Witness, Remembrance'—and serving as a curator for the Toronto Biennial of Art, she is celebrated for creating brave, community-centred platforms that challenge dominant institutional frameworks.

What lies beneath the surface of what we present to the world? Recorded in her Toronto studio, artist Russna Kaur joins host Deep Kailey to explore how internal mental chatter manifests on the canvas and how creative practice mirrors life’s unanswerable complexities. Drawing from her background as a biology major, Russna shares how studying anatomical structures under a microscope transformed her understanding of inner workings versus external facades—a perspective sharpened after surviving a life-altering car crash that compelled her to dive completely into painting.

The conversation reflects on how we are born as blank canvases, continually adding unnecessary layers throughout life only to one day realise we must return back to that black canvas. Together, they discuss abstraction as a radical tool to slow down in an instant-gratification society, confronting the discomfort it can provoke, and how achieving true simplicity—whether in a masterwork or a stilled mind—is the highest form of discipline.

Russna Kaur is a Toronto-based visual artist known for her vibrant, large-scale modular paintings that challenge traditional boundaries of surface and space. Her dynamic practice investigates the complex interplay between chaos, order, memory, and the multifaceted layers of human experience.

Her incredible first limited-edition artist book, 'Looking Closely: Painting, Process & Abstraction' , is out soon, register interest here: https://elaiabooks.fillout.com/russnakaur

What happens when design stops being about creating objects and becomes a way to understand the world? Ollie Knight and Rory McGrath, founders of the independent design practice OK-RM, join us to reflect on an 18-year journey driven by intuition over logic and predefined answers. We explore the space between instinct and structure, the importance of allowing ideas to evolve without over-defining them, and why the most profound creative work often begins without a name or a fixed form. Together, we examine what it means to question convention, reconnect with innate intuition, and cultivate a creative practice that is fluid, evolving, and deeply human.Ollie Knight and Rory McGrath are the founders of OK-RM, an independent design practice working across visual identity, publishing, art, research, and cultural initiatives. Their practice centers on deep collaboration, intuitive process, and building meaningful relationships between people, ideas, and spatial environments.

Who are you when no one is watching? Rajdeep, Ameet and Simran sit down for a raw, relatable conversation about what it truly means to live authentically. They reflect on their university years, the pressure to please others, and the heavy burden of wearing different masks at work, with family, and across curated social media profiles.

Highlighting the striking disconnect between desire and reality—where 97% of people believe authenticity breeds happiness, yet only 16% feel they can be themselves at work—the team explores how to adapt your delivery without compromising your core integrity. They discuss how our default qualities of compassion, patience, and honesty become clouded over time by a busy and noisy mind, and how the practical application of Simran helps strip away those layers to reconnect with who we truly are. The episode leaves us with a compelling question for daily life: when you walk out of a room, what fragrance do you leave behind?

What gets in the way of truly hearing the world around us? In the final episode of our New York series, recorded ahead of their Total Response performance, devotional musician and composer Surya Botofasina joins Deep and nep to explore the profound spiritual discipline of listening. Surya reflects on how our own rigid expectations often block us from answering the call of the present moment. He shares his personal relationship with the lineage of chords and music—a gift he believes must be passed on with purely altruistic intentions. Deep introduces the concept of the "Unstruck Melody" that exists within everyone. By quietening external noise and shifting into a state of deep listening, we can return to our default natural state of compassion, kindness, and fearlessness. They close by redefining success as living in absolute, human-to-human integrity, exploring how true love transcends fleeting emotional feelings to become an undeniable, internal knowing. Surya Botofasina is an acclaimed pianist, composer, and keyboardist whose artistry is deeply rooted in the spiritual jazz tradition. His practice treats music not merely as a performance, but as a communal, meditative, and healing tool for collective elevation.

How do we find true freedom when we are simply too tired to carry the weight of our own thoughts? Ahead of their Total Response performance in New York, critically acclaimed composer and multi-instrumentalist Angel Bat Dawid and artist Nirbhai nep Sidhu join Deep for an unfiltered exploration of music, memory, and endurance. Angel shares nostalgic reflections on her childhood parlour room and how watching Amadeus sparked a hidden, lifelong obsession with classical music. We discuss art and music as essential portals that allow us to explore beyond.

Shifting to the "Battlefield of the Mind," Angel opens up with raw honesty about the physical and emotional exhaustion of carrying heavy burdens, opening the door for Deep to share a transformative perspective on how to access genuine inner freedom. Finally, we dive into the transformative power of repetition and discipline, proving that rigorous practice is not a constraint, but the ultimate tool for personal growth and self-mastery.

Angel Bat Dawid is a phenomenal Chicago-based composer, clarinetist, singer, and educator whose radical, genre-defying work interacts deeply with memory, spirituality, and the rich lineage of Black jazz avant-garde. nep Sidhu is an interdisciplinary practitioner whose work explores the metaphysics of form and spatial rhythm within community. Together, they embody a courageous commitment to the constant evolution of the self and the spirit.

What keeps you on the path when the world tries to pull you away? Ahead of their TOTAL RESPONSE performance in New York, artist Nirbhai (nep) Singh Sidhu and legendary musician Ishmael Butler join Deep K Kailey to explore the "compulsion" that drives the seeker. They discuss the bravery required to evolve your art in a world that demands consistency, and the fascinating challenge of naming the "unnamed"—the realisation that by the time an artwork is defined, the creator has already moved on to the next.

Ishmael Butler is a Grammy-winning musician and pioneer (Digable Planets, Shabazz Palaces), celebrated for his experimental approach to sonic architecture. nep Sidhu is an interdisciplinary practitioner whose work explores the metaphysics of form and spatial rhythm within community. Together, they embody a courageous commitment to the constant evolution of the self and the spirit.

Is true play an act of discipline? Ahead of their TOTAL RESPONSE performance in New York, artists Carlos Niño and Nirbhai (nep) Singh Sidhu join Deep K Kailey to explore the rigorous yet joyful practice of creative expression. They discuss the concept of Simran and the profound responsibility of sharing it with care and integrity. Exploring their deep artistic connection, they reflect on the freedom found in the 'just doing'—where creation becomes a boundaryless act. The conversation moves into the nature of a "weak mind" and how easily it is influenced.

Carlos Niño is an internationally renowned percussionist, producer, and composer known for his collaborative approach to spiritual jazz and ambient music (and the concerts Music Director). nep Sidhu is an interdisciplinary practitioner whose work explores the metaphysics of form and spatial rhythm. In collaboration with without SHAPE without FORM and other artists, they create immersive experiences that challenge the boundaries of sound and spirit.

What do you do when a "creative" industry fails to fulfill your purpose? Artist Sejal Parekh shares her non-linear journey, from earning a BA in fine art to years in marketing, and the essential pull that brought her back to the studio. She discusses her experiential sculptural work, including a piece inspired by a vivid memory of a stone handmill (chaki) that was contested by others. We explore the deep freedom in unlearning the need for context, allowing art to be experienced directly, and the joy of finding your true path home.

Sejal Parekh is a British-Indian cross-disciplinary artist whose sculptural practice serves as a cartographic intervention into the geographies of displacement. Her work transforms objects and motifs into complex instruments of critical refusal. https://sejalparekh.art/

Guest Curator: Xavier Leopold https://xavierleopoldstudio.com

How do we stay grounded in our purpose when the world offers us the trap of ego? BAFTA-longlisted animator Gagandeep Kaur Chahal joins us to discuss the profound shift in perspective that motherhood has brought to her life and work. We explore the deep research behind her acclaimed animation 'Cha', inspired by the incredible resilience, love and detachment of Bibi Jagdish Kaur, and what it means to practice detachment in a high-stakes creative industry. Gagandeep shares her commitment to making art for its original purpose rather than views or accolades, while offering a critical look at AI and why it can never replace the contextual, lived human experience that gives art its soul.

Gagandeep Kaur Chahal is a BAFTA-nominated animator and artist celebrated for her ability to weave complex narratives with emotional depth. Her work often explores themes of history, memory, and resilience, combining technical mastery with a commitment to storytelling that prioritises human connection over digital convenience.