Unleashed

JEANETTE: I did not grow up with a dog myself, but had animals around me all the time, and I know it had a good effect on many aspects of my life. Therefore, I wanted to find out more about the human-animal relation. I have talked to one parent and one professor. Let’s start with the parent. 

Claudia Zenner from Germany has been doing agility for more than 20 years. Claudia did not grow up with dogs herself, but got a Staffordshire Bull Terrier as soon as she moved out from home. They started doing agility and qualified for national teams and world championships. They even won a gold medal with the team, and she has been at the top level with several dogs ever since. 

One of the Zenner family’s dogs is a 7-year-old Kelpie. He is the former competition dog of Claudia’s husband Jörg, but now he’s running with their 7-year-old daughter. 

CLAUDIA: They grew up together, and since my daughter was 5 years old, they started to do some agility. Now she’s 7 and is ready for competition, and yes, they are doing pretty good. 

JEANETTE: Who wanted to start with agility? Was it your daughter, or was it you as parents that thought it would be nice for her to try? 

CLAUDIA: If your kid is sharing the same interest and the same hobby, of course you like this very much. But it was not us to tell her, “Okay, get the dog and start agility.” It was just her, because we are an agility-addicted family. We are crazy about the sport, and we are on the training field very often. We do a competition almost every weekend. Since she was a baby, she’s with us all the time and she grew up with it. 

One day she said, “Okay, I want to do agility too. Can I just join the training?” So it all started. And she was really talented and got better and better and better. 

JEANETTE: I guess it’s either/or because some kids growing up with agility get sick and tired of it. Do you have any tips and tricks for other parents with kids to avoid this? 

CLAUDIA: You never can tell how it will develop, but I think it’s very important not to tell the kid “you have to do this and that.” Let it go and see what will happen. I guess it’s very important to tell the kid this is an animal and how to treat the animal and how to take care of the dog, and don’t be so stressful and strict. They need to have fun, and it’s not important to be good at the sport; it’s important just to have fun with your dog as a team partner. Then they understand that it is not about winning, it is about being a team and having a good time. 

JEANETTE: Doing this sport, does it affect your kid in any way, positive or negative? 

CLAUDIA: I think my kid has become much more self-confident. She is proud of what she is able to do together with the dog. She’s very talented with the dog and has a special sense of how to handle the dog in agility. In my opinion, agility affects all kinds of development, like more focus, more concentration, better learning, socialization, movement, and even body control. She’s very eager to learn more of what she’s doing, not only in agility. 

JEANETTE: Do you see any changes from before she started compared to now? 

CLAUDIA: Oh yes. Like I said, since she was a baby, she has been to the agility class regularly with us. Because we are on the field and in training so often, she joined our trainings and competition and she started very early with agility – she was 5 years old, and she was very eager to learn more and more. 

Now, after 2 years of training, she was ready for competition. Her development was huge. In even 6 months from her first start till now, she is gaining so much more self-confidence. Yes, the development is really, really huge. She has gained so many agility skills in such a short period. This is just amazing. 

Of course, this affects her daily life. Usually, she would rather back off as situations get more complicated, and now she’s able to handle daily life situations more easily. She’s very open-minded now towards other people and cares for others. She has learned to deal with failures. If you work with an animal, things very often go not always as planned. We teach her, don’t be mad at the dog. It is always your fault. Rethink your handling. This is an important lesson for the kids. 

JEANETTE: And the handling is how you move to show the dog the way on the course. 

CLAUDIA: Yes, that’s true. In agility, you guide the dog only with your voice and your body movement. The dog doesn’t know the course because the course is always different. It’s up to you to show the right way. If the dog takes the wrong way, like a wrong obstacle or wrong tunnel, it’s your fault because you’re not showing the right way for the dog. 

JEANETTE: Your daughter seems to be a natural at this, maybe because she grew up with it, but she’s adjusting very nicely to the dog and everything. I saw her running at the B.A.C.K. That’s a big competition in Germany. She was running the finals, and they had a great run. It was a fault on the contacts, as far as I can remember, but the rest was flawless. How was it for her to have that experience, to compete with some of the best handlers in the world in front of a big, big audience? 

CLAUDIA: This was a great experience. Like 6 months earlier, she wouldn’t do it, and now she was qualified for the final, because in Germany the kids are invited to run the final course. It’s a very good support for the kids. She was so excited. I was thinking this course is way too much for her and the dog. I was a little bit worried. She answered me, “Oh Mom, don’t worry. We can do it.” This was very cute. She has a very special feeling for the dog, and the dog is also very, very nice and very kind to her. He is watching the kid very good. They are already a perfect team. So this is very good to see. 

Of course she was very excited to run in this final at this international competition, but she was doing so perfect. She was showing off so much, it was just very impressive. She started; from Jump #1 to the end, it was just – she had a plan, and she was running it, and she was sure the dog would follow, and she nailed it. It was just amazing.

JEANETTE: Now she just qualified for Grade 3. That’s like the elite class in agility. Now she’s competing against adults and some of the best ones in the world as well. How do you think this will be for her? 

CLAUDIA: Oh, yes. [laughs] 

JEANETTE: It looked only easy because maybe she’s used to winning and everything until now, but now she gets some serious competition. 

CLAUDIA: Yes, it’s true. She started in Class 1 and did all the qualifications for Class 2, and now the qualifications for Class 3. To be honest, we didn’t imagine she would even do it so fast, in such a short time. Now she’s, yes, in Class 3, running with the adults. 

Of course, it’s now our job to teach her it is not about winning. It is to be a perfect team, to have a very nice teammate with you. She needs to learn this. We need to explain every time. Now it’s getting more complicated, and maybe she will not win even if she has a clean run. It is all about the feeling. If she is having fun with the dog and if she is enjoying the run, then that’s all that counts. 

JEANETTE: How is the relationship between your child and the dog outside the agility course? 

CLAUDIA: They are, even outside agility, a perfect team. They have daily life together and they take care of each other. 

JEANETTE: Do you see any difference in how the dog is behaving around your daughter compared to you guys as adults? 

CLAUDIA: He is adjusting to the kid. When the kid slows down in the course, he will adjust perfectly and slow down too, and he even waits for her. He’s very nice. In one course, she fell down, and he stopped immediately, watching her, being sure she was okay, and then he started to run again. It was so nice. 

JEANETTE: Would he do the same if it was your husband falling? 

CLAUDIA: No, of course not. When he was running with my husband, he was a totally different dog. He’s not an easy dog. As a Kelpie, of course he’s very, very big. It was not easy to run with him in the agility course. But now he’s a totally different dog with my kid. This is really amazing. 

JEANETTE: What do you think the future will hold for your daughter and her Kelpie? 

CLAUDIA: They just started to compete in agility, but in Germany we have some junior championships, and maybe she will go for that. Maybe next year or in some months. We will see. Next year there is even the Junior European Open, but this is a little bit too much for her right now. We want her just to grow as a team and to get even more self-confidence, and maybe they’re ready for this big event a little bit later. It’s very important not to overdo it. 

JEANETTE: You did not grow up with a dog yourself, but now you’ve seen your daughter growing up with this amazing dog. Do you think every kid ideally should grow up with a dog or a pet in general? 

CLAUDIA: In my opinion, every kid needs a pet for its own development. If your kid can have a dog, then it’s better. They can learn for life social behavior and special needs of the animal, respect and kindness, and of course, responsibility. And they learn patience and how to train an animal. I think the combination of a pet and sport is perfect. Of course, agility is our life. If our kids love dogs as much as we do, everybody’s happy.

JEANETTE: Then the question is, can this be backed up with science? I called Gail Melson, Professor Emerita at Purdue University in the USA, to find out. She has a PhD in developmental psychology with a focus on children. When she started doing research in the 1980s, there was hardly any information to find about the relationship between kids and animals. She has changed that and collected some of her findings in the book, Why the Wild Things Are: Animals in the Lives of Children. 

GAIL: The field of psychology, until recently, really focused on relationships that children had with other human beings. I became interested in the relationships that children have outside of the human species. Of course, that takes me to an interest in animals, and particularly knowing that in not only Norway, but through much of the world, pets are very much a part of the household, of the home that children are growing up in. So it would be natural that this would be a relationship that could be very important. 

JEANETTE: Did you grow up with any animals yourself? 

GAIL: I did grow up with a dog named Trixie. She was of course very much part of our family. But I think my professional interest really began in a little bit of a different way in the sense that as I was studying social and emotional relationships in children, one of the relationships that I was really interested in was the idea of nurturing. 

We very much think of that as something that adults do for children, and of course, they do. But I was interested as a person who focuses on child development, what happens in childhood that maybe might make an adult a better nurturer, a better caregiver, a more compassionate and more nurturing person? Is this something that develops at childhood?

This was really an academic question, but I discovered, just as I did when I was interested in non-human relationships, I discovered there was very, very little research. So I began a research program with a colleague on the idea. We called it the development of nurturance. What goes on in childhood? We never thought about pets and we never thought about animals because we just thought about maybe kids who are around babies, that might be something. We weren’t sure, but we never thought about it. 

We did studies of children, both observing them and videotaping them and interviewing them, about nurturing others. When “others,” we thought of other human beings, mainly little babies. What we found in that research was by the age of 5, children had a very firm gender bias, which was kind of shocking to us. Girls were very interested in nurturing and caring for little ones, and boys not at all. 

We interviewed young children and one said to me, “Taking care of a baby, that’s a mommy thing.” This is a little boy. [laughs] “I’m a big man.” It didn’t seem to matter that his dad was there taking care of – he had plenty of models, plenty of examples. We were kind of distressed by that because we felt that in our society, and in fact in the world, we need everyone to be a nurturer, a caregiver, somebody who is attuned to helping others.

I remember vividly talking with colleagues about our results, our findings, and how disturbed we were. One of them said to us, “Well, what do you think about taking care of pets? They must be in so many homes, and obviously you’ve got to take care of them if you don’t want them to suffer and die. I wonder if you’ll find this gender problem with that. Certainly it would be an opportunity to learn about nurturing.” A big light went off in our head, and we said, “Oh my goodness, yeah, that’s so interesting. I wonder about that.”

In the days before Google, we actually went to libraries to do what a researcher always does first, which is look at the existing research, and we discovered not a single research study on this question. Not one. I was very surprised because I soon discovered that, my goodness, childr

JEANETTE: According to ASPCA, 3.3 million dogs enter shelters each year in the United States, and there are millions of dogs waiting in shelters for a forever home. For some, it’s a bit harder to find new families than others. There could be many reasons for that, but a common reason is that they are too demanding. You guys often end up with these dogs. Why?

NICK: We got into dog powered sports because as a kid, I always wanted a malamute. We ended up getting a malamute that had been returned because he was too high energy. The family couldn’t handle him. So it was my opportunity for us to get a malamute. We got him, and he was going to destroy our house. We had to find something to keep him from destroying our house. We were not going to give up on him.

I started in canicross for that reason. I just started running with him to burn off energy so that he could get the exercise he needed to be a good dog. That just let us see that there was really a need for high energy rescue dogs to have a place that – they need a family where they can burn off that energy and be the good dogs that they really are deep down inside.

JEANETTE: But it can be quite hard to find that good dog sometimes. Do you have some tips and tricks to share?

NICK: The biggest tip, really, is exercise. In the U.S., we have a saying, “a tired dog is a good dog,” and that’s really it. It’s about getting them the exercise that they need to find that inner calmness that they all have.

JEANETTE: Is this often underestimated when somebody gets, for example, a malamute or a husky or a border collie, the level of activity these dogs need?

NICK: Absolutely. In fact, almost all of our dogs have had homes before us where someone got them and underestimated how much work they were going to get.

For example, the dog that Joy ran with in the first World Championships that we competed in was a dog that someone applied to a husky rescue. The rescue said, “Your life is not right for a husky.” They said, “Too bad, I want a husky anyway.” They went out to a different shelter, adopted one. Called this rescue back and said, “Hey, you were right. We can’t handle a husky, but we adopted one, so here. Please take him.”

People really need to understand that huskies and malamutes and many other breeds out there require a certain lifestyle. You have to make a commitment to that lifestyle. If you’re not an active person, don’t get an active breed.

JEANETTE: And you are quite active with your dogs. You’re doing canicross with them, and you have done quite good. We are at the World Championships in Sweden right now, and you have been running with one of your rescue dogs.

JOY: Yes. His name is Oso and he is a husky mix. We adopted him several years ago from a shelter in Oklahoma City, and he’d just had this third birthday.

When we adopted him, no one wanted him. All of the people who had come to look at him and see if he was right for their family took one look at him and said “absolutely not,” and walked out the door. He would destroy wire crates. He had had a couple surgeries with stitches and had ripped those out and tore up his cone, had to have a muzzle. He was just sort of a mess, and people thought they really couldn’t handle him.

We came across him and we talked about it and talked about it, and we decided he’s the perfect fit for our family. We have never had one problem with him because from the moment we brought him home, we started running with him.

NICK: We find it a little funny in that when we walked in to meet him, we picked up a leash and he started screaming at the top of his lungs. The rescue said, “That’s why everyone is scared of him.” We said, “He’s perfect for us.”

JEANETTE: Was he screaming because he was eager to do something?

NICK: He was just so excited. He knew that the leash meant he got to go for a walk, and all he wanted to do was get out there and burn energy off.

JEANETTE: Do you think these signals are often misunderstood?

NICK: I think they’re misunderstood. I also think that a lot of people just ignore them. They see something like that and don’t really comprehend what’s behind it. With Oso, Oso needs a lot of exercise. He can go for miles and miles and miles and miles. Just taking him for a walk was never going to be enough for him. He was born to run.

JOY: I think people also think their screeches and their howls for a leash, that they’re cute. They come and look at a dog and they see them do that, and they’re jumping and they’re excited, and they think, “That’s just so adorable. I can’t wait to have that at home.” And they bring that dog home and realize that it’s so much more than just needing that walk. It’s beyond cute. They really need to go for a run. People see that in the shelter and they just don’t understand what it’s really going to take.

JEANETTE: As far as I know, you guys are really eager to get more people to be more active with their dogs.

NICK: We live in Missouri, which is not a huge place for dog powered sports, but we’ve been pretty active in encouraging people to get involved in canicross. We have a big running community where we live, especially trail running. We actually host – it used to be a road 5K. We’ve since expanded that to trail running races. This year we’re adding a trail mountain bike race. A couple years back we added a canicross race.

In addition to that, we’ve also started Canicross Missouri, which is just a Facebook group for people to get on for helping find canicross type races. We don’t really have a lot of canicross official races, but dog-friendly 5Ks and that sort of stuff in Missouri, and then training tips, etc.

JEANETTE: The people you meet, what kind of state are their dogs in? Do you see a change after they start doing dog powered sports?

JOY: We see a lot of different breeds of dogs, and a lot of people who are in different places with their physical fitness who are looking to get into a dog powered sport. There are a lot of people who like to do ultra-running, who are already running with their dogs, and their dogs are very fit, and they already understand taking care of their paws and proper harness fit and things like that.

Then there are people who are just looking to really start. Maybe they just want to start running; they’ve never run with their dog before. We have seen a difference. We’ve had a lot of people who, once they start in the sport, then they’re looking for more gear and they’re looking to see what they can do to get better with their dog and asking more questions and really getting excited about it.

For us, that’s what’s exciting, to see people really enjoying it and getting more excited about doing things with their dogs.

JEANETTE: But getting started can be quite hard, especially if you’re not very fit. How do you solve it if you have a dog that’s super energetic and needs a lot of exercise, but you’re not a proven runner yourself?

NICK: The first step is literally just that. Just take the first step. Go out and start – go to a trail, do a mile or so walk. Just start that way, and then build up. You can do that. After a couple weeks, maybe throw in a little bit of jogging with your dog, and then before you know it, you’re going to be doing canicross or whatever sport you want to do.

JEANETTE: As far as I know, you have quite a few dogs. Is it nine?

NICK: That’s correct, nine dogs.

JEANETTE: You have to tell us a bit more about them. How many are rescues, how many are not?

NICK: Two are not rescues. Six officially came from rescue groups. The seventh one, he’s not a true rescue dog, but he was one that someone had bought from a breeder and returned because they couldn’t handle his energy level.

JEANETTE: Did the rescues have any extra baggage, so to speak? Any problems?

NICK: Each dog is different. Some of the dogs were more problems for the rescue groups than the others. Actually, three of our dogs have come from the same rescue group that’s based out of Oklahoma City. It’s Heartland Husky Rescue.

Oso, for example, came from there. He was a handful for them, because like Joy had mentioned, he would destroy wire crates. He had had to have surgery because when he came in, he had a lesion on his leg, and they had to stitch it up multiple times, and he continually ripped his stitches out.

In fact, it’s a little funny; we have a picture of him from back at the rescue. The only way they could get him to leave his stitches alone was to put a cone on him and the muzzle on him at the same time. We have a picture. It’s absolutely hilarious, because he looks like some sort of serial killer. But you can see underneath the muzzle, he’s just smiling and his tongue’s hanging out.

Every dog that we adopt, whenever we talk with rescue groups about them, we say, “Tell us their problems. We’re not scared of the problems; we just want to know what they are so that we know how to address them.” That’s really the big thing for us.

JEANETTE: But getting a rescue can be a lot of trouble. Why don’t you just get a puppy instead?

NICK: There’s a lot of dogs in shelters. They all need homes. A puppy can have just as many problems as a rescue can. In fact, all these rescues were puppies at one point, and their problems most likely originated from people not taking care of the puppy as they should’ve in the first place.

JOY: I think, too, being able to work with a rescue and helping them overcome some of their problems is very rewarding, just as it is to raise a puppy and watch them grow. We have a rescue, the one that I took several years ago that Nick mentioned early on, and his name is Prudhoe. Prudhoe has a lot of anxiety issues, and Prudhoe also does not trust women. He gets very scared if a female touches his paws or his head or if he feels like he might be a little bit cornered with a woman in the room.

It’s been very enjoyable and rewarding for me to be able to work with Prudhoe, because for quite some time, I could not even put a harness on him, and now I’m able to harness him and pet him, and he trusts me. To me, that’s so rewarding and so wonderful. I just remember when we first got him, I couldn’t touch his feet. Sometimes he wouldn’t even come to me.

JEANETTE: But how did you address this problem, and how gradually did you progress?

NICK: The big way to address not only that problem, but any problem, is first you have to earn the dog’s trust. It takes baby steps. It’s making sure they get the food they need, making sure they get the exercise they need, making sure that you never ask them to do something that you don’t already know they can do and setting them up to succeed.

Over time, you build that trust, and as you build that trust the dog will – like in Joy’s case, Prudhoe slowly over time realized, “hey, it’s okay if I sit beside her.” Then it became “it’s okay if she touches my forearm,” and it just gradually went from “no, you can’t touch me at all” to “hey, we’re best friends and I trust you completely with everything.”

JEANETTE: So patience is the key word.

NICK: That’s exactly right.

JEANETTE: If I have a problem dog but I’m new to dog training, what should I do if I cannot solve this problem myself?

NICK: We got into dog powered sports all because we had a problem that we didn’t know how to solve. That was that we had a very high energy malamute that was going to destroy our house. We just got online and started looking for ideas of how to burn energy off of him. We were both already runners, so it started off running with him.

Got a little tired of having my arm be sore after every run, so it’s like, there’s got to be a better way. We just did research and research and research. Any problem you have, someone else has already encountered that problem, so look online. Try to find the resources.

In the U.S. there’s a lot of dog training blogs and webpages where you can go and get tips. In saying that, don’t read everything as gospel. You know your dog. Just because it works for someone else, doesn’t mean it will or it won’t work for you, but be open to trying new ideas.

JEANETTE: It can be quite hard to figure out what information I can trust and what not.

NICK: The most trusted resource for us is your dog. You can see very quickly if something’s working or not if you just pay attention to the subtle cues that they give. There’s lots of training things that we try that, after a week or two, we say “No, that’s not working. We need to get rid of that.” So just follow your dog. Let him tell you what’s working and what’s not, and if it’s not working, don’t be afraid to change up what you’re doing.

JEANETTE: What are the most useful lessons you guys have learned, either by experience or from others throughout the years?

NICK: The most useful tip that I’ve ever received for training dogs – it actually came from a book – was never ask your dog to do something that you do not know they can do. As long as a dog does not know their limits, they believe they have no limits, and they will do anything and everything that you ask.

If you ask them to do too much, they learn they have limits and they know exactly where that limit is, and they don’t want to come close to that limit. So you can accomplish so much more in training by you knowing the limit and never asking them to cross it and if you push them to their breaking point.

JEANETTE: It’s your job to protect their confidence and to build it.

NICK: Exactly.

JEANETTE: You have to tell us a bit more about your dogs and the championships you’ve just been doing.

NICK: The dog that I brought to the championships, his name is Anarchy. He is a Greyster. He’s 14 months old, very young. He’s actually only been racing for 3 weeks. This was his third race – his first large race where there was crowds. Our first two were smaller races where he didn’t really have to deal with a whole lot of people or anything. He’s still very much a puppy. He’s very excited. He very much lives up to his na

If you like to be active with your dog, canicross is the perfect sport for you! Everyone can do it - both proven runners and people who have never participated in competitions before. In this episode, Multiple World Champion Tessa Philippaerts from Belgium shares her tips on everything from how to get started to what to remember at a competition.

JEANETTE: Today’s guest was a Top 5 track and field athlete in Belgium. Now canicross is her main discipline, and today the three-time world champion will share some tips and tricks. Tessa Philippaerts from Belgium, welcome.

TESSA: Hi. Welcome.

JEANETTE: Thank you. First of all, can you tell us a bit what is canicross?

TESSA: Canicross is basically running with your dog, but you’re connected to your dog. The dog is not free-running, and the dog is wearing a special type of harness in which he can pull freely, and he’s connected to the runner by this elastic line. The runner is wearing a special type of belt. Usually they run basically anywhere they want. They can go off-road, they can run a little bit on the road.

JEANETTE: So it doesn’t need too much equipment. This is basically something everyone can do.

TESSA: Yeah, everybody can do canicross. It’s really easy. You just need basic equipment and a pair of running shoes, and then you’re good to go.

JEANETTE: How did you come into the sport?

TESSA: I was doing track and field from when I was 7 years old, I think, and I always hated to do the long distance running training that I had to do by myself. I really liked dogs, but after our last dog died, my father said, “No, we do not really want to have a new dog anymore. It’s so much time.” So I kept on nagging and nagging and nagging to get a new dog. My father saw I was struggling with my training and he said, “Yeah, maybe if I can buy you a new dog that can join you on your training runs, will you then go and do it more often?” I was like, “Yeah, of course. Of course I would love to have a dog to join me on my runs.”

We basically started to look online for which type of dog fit in with our lifestyle, and we stumbled on the whippet, because they’re pretty calm in the house and they’re active whenever they’re outside. They’re not the typical canicross dog, but by then I didn’t know anything about canicross, so it was okay.

After a while my father said he was looking on the internet, surfing, and he found this sport where you can run with your dog. He was like, “That’s something for you, canicross. Would you like to try it?” I said, “Yeah, we can go one day and try it.” So one race somewhere in Belgium –There we started. There was this small stand standing outside where they have all this equipment hanging and you could try it out, or you can buy it. We just bought instantly everything because I thought it was nice for running at home anyway.

Then we did the race, and I thought it was so much fun – even though my dog didn’t get anything about what she had to do. But yeah, it was so much fun to run with my dog. I remember I finished last place, but I didn’t care because it was so much fun. After that day, I think we went to every possible race. Then we got really stuck with canicross, and we got better and better during the years, so that was really cool.

JEANETTE: You also got more dogs.

TESSA: Yeah, because I think after two years of doing canicross, my father said “This is actually so much fun. Can I borrow your dog?” Of course, “No.”

Then he was like, “Okay, then maybe we can buy another dog.” So we bought a second whippet. Then he started to race as well with her.

From then on, we started to get more dogs after my whippet got injured when she was 4 years old. I was so sad. I remember I was just so sad, because she was actually really good for a whippet running in canicross. She had an injury on her shoulder which was not related to what we were doing. We always threw this ball and a stick, and they run like 60 kilometers an hour and break it once. So she had this arthritis already in her shoulder.

I was borrowing for a couple of years some dogs, until I stumbled on a border collie. It was a girl, and she said on Facebook, “Yeah, you can borrow my dog.” It was so much fun because the dog and me, we were such a great team. That girl is called Femke. She is my best friend since then, and we are still best friends from that day.

But then after a while, her father got sick, so she couldn’t come to the races anymore. It was a little bit back and forth and borrowing some other dogs, but it was not the same as running with her dog or running with my own dogs, so we started to think about getting a new dog. Then eventually we stumbled on this crossbreed sled dog, and his name was Yukon. It was a guy in France who didn’t want him anymore. He basically said, “You can have him.” I bought him when he was almost one year old. He was just the best ever. He was a natural talent.

Only 3 months after we got him, there was a world championship in Bergen, which is only 3 hours from our place where we live. So my father entered me there, and apparently we did really good because we ended up first in the junior category. I think we also ran faster the second day than the senior women, so that was really awesome. Now we are growing with the sport. My first dog got old, so now we have three other dogs at the moment, so four in total.

JEANETTE: Together with your dogs you’ve had some great achievements. Can you tell us a bit about what you’ve done throughout the years?

TESSA: Like we said before, in Bergen was my first time I did a world championship, and we ended up first in junior class. Then the world championship is alternating with the European championship, every other year. Two years after it was another world championship, and I was in the senior category, and we won again. Then two years later, we won for a third time.

In between, the European championships, I’m very happy to have finished as a Vice European Champion a couple of times. Belgium also, we won a couple of times the Belgium championship, and also in bike, biking with your dog. There I also won a couple of times the Belgian championship. Sometimes I did double entry on the big championships with the same dog, and we ended up – I think also two times on the world championship – Top 6, I think, with him in bike. That was not too bad either. I think that’s kind of it

JEANETTE: How does it feel to win the world championship with your best friend?

TESSA: It’s a crazy feeling. I don’t think you can really describe it. You know you’ve worked really hard for it, and if everything falls in place that day and works out, it is like this huge emotional rollercoaster.

JEANETTE: Can you tell us a bit more about how you are training to become good in canicross?

TESSA: I actually think before I was a little bit lucky because I had this background of track and field. I think many people that were in this race were not track and field runners. It was just people that basically go and run with their dog and they do only that. So I had a little bit of knowledge of how to train before.

I think I didn’t train that much before because the competition was, in my eyes, not super high. But now, the sport is growing every year, and now I see that with basic training, I will not get there anymore. Now I’m specializing myself a little bit more.

JEANETTE: Do you always run with your dog, or do you train your dog separately and yourself separately?

TESSA: Yeah, that’s a big thing. I have pretty big dogs. It’s actually easier to train without your dog. I train my dogs separately with the bike or the scooter. Every now and then I do run with them, because I really like to run with them, but it would not physically be possible to run with a 33- or 35-kilo dog, and I weigh myself around 52. It’s not that healthy for the joints and everything to do with such a big dog on a daily basis.

I have one smaller female, around 19 kilograms. If I go training, usually I use her to train with because she’s a really nice size.

JEANETTE: Do you do running, or do you do other things as well?

TESSA: Like I said, when I train my dogs, it’s usually with the bike or the scooter, and then it depends a little bit on the weather. They also go in summer, a lot of free running whenever it’s possible, or swimming is also a very good alternative. Myself, like I said, I like running a lot. But I do also like biking, and sometimes I also like running without the dogs and going in really high kilometer amounts in one week. Then I sometimes also go biking, mountain biking, or go with my road bike, just to have some alternative training. I think running is hard for the body, but you can do lots of stuff.

JEANETTE: Can everybody do canicross? Older people, people that didn’t run before, is it possible for everybody to do this?

TESSA: Yes, I think so. I think as long as you respect your own limits and the limits of the type of dog you have – if you do not want to get dragged like me, you can buy a smaller dog that’s not so powerful, and you can basically train with him every day. That’s not a problem. You just have to see, if you’re older, you just have to take it slow and build it up, basically like you do with normal running as well.

And the same for your dog. He also has to build up stamina and endurance. Small dogs can do it, big dogs can do it. You just have to respect the type of dog you have. You cannot ask from a French bulldog to do the same as a German short-haired pointer. If you respect that, then everybody can do canicross.

JEANETTE: Are there specific breeds that stand out?

TESSA: Those mixed breeds, and I think a lot of pointers are also very popular. When I started in canicross, I think border collies were very popular because they’re very smart, and they are very hard workers also. But they are now considered small dogs in this sport, so I think the dogs they use the most are the pure GSP, English pointer, and also some huskies I think. Also some Belgian Malinois. They’re also popular. And then our mixed breed dog types that we have. They are very popular at the moment.

JEANETTE: What makes a good canicross dog? What kind of mindset do they need to have, and how do you see that a dog is really good in the sport?

TESSA: I think it all depends on the head. You can have a dog that has the best body and the best build, but if he doesn’t have the right head or the right mindset, then you will achieve nothing. My whippet, for example, she was very good in the head. She would pull basically like three-fourths of the race. For a whippet I think that’s really good because it’s a dog that usually chases other things in the field.

The dog doesn’t only have to be able to run good; he also has to be smart, because you have to steer your dog. You have to say left and right. They are very self-secure, the dogs. They usually are very good when you’re giving commands. Some dogs are very insecure and then it’s a little bit more difficult because they will hesitate during the race or something.

It’s also very good to have a nice dog, a dog that’s very well-socialized with other dogs, before you go racing. Of course, we do not want any dogs biting when they’re overtaking people on the track or biting other people. That has also happened before.

It’s also a very good thing that the dog has a hard head – even though he gets tired and uphill, he keeps on pushing a little bit further. That’s basically what you need for having a good canicross dog.

JEANETTE: If you have a dog that’s a bit careful, maybe doesn’t pull too much or is a bit careful, are there any tips or tricks to motivate them a bit more?

TESSA: Yeah, there’s always some tricks to motivate dogs to go do a little extra during a race or something. I usually use food or some toys that they really like. They only get this during training, for example, so it’s this really special thing that they only get when they go running. I basically give them a goal that they are running for.

For some of my dogs it’s a treat. For others it’s a tennis ball. I start with really short distances and make it really fun. Try to do maybe some interval training with them so that they do not always have to go all the way and always feel really tired. I keep them motivated with these shorter training runs, and treats and toys. They usually work.

JEANETTE: When do you start training your dogs? Do you start at puppy age?

TESSA: I don’t like to call it training my dogs at puppy age, but I call it more like educating them. I’m basically teaching them what they have to do without really doing it. For example, I teach them to, from the start – not from the start, but maybe 3 months, I start to walk them in harness. When they are walking in the harness, they are allowed to pull. When they’re attached to the collar and just go walk like that, then they are not allowed to pull.

INTERVIEWER: That’s nice to teach the difference. Otherwise you will just hang in there all the time.

TESSA: Yes. It’s some really basic training for them. It makes afterwards the whole process a lot easier. I also teach them, for example, at the race that they are standing in line out, they are stretching the line, standing still, not barking. They are concentrated until I do the countdown. This I also start a really young age, just to learn that they have to stand still, stretch the line. I also work always with treats and toys or whatever. They think it’s really fun to do these exercises. Then I do the countdown, and then I run for 10 meters so that they know, “oh, okay, this is how it’s supposed to be.”

I teach them already the commands. When I go walking, I already teach them left and right. I start doing this really early, and it’s so cool because they are so smart. When they’re young, they are so easy to teach this kind of stuff, and it makes them also more self-confident when they get to the part where they are almost one year old and can start really training, or training a little bit more.

It’s easy to have a dog that already knows everything before he actually has to do it.

JEANETTE: With the commands, is it only left and right, or do you have any other

Do you know what to do if your dog gets a paw cut, suffers from diarrhea and vomiting, or eats a plate of chocolate? Veterinarian Trude Mostue shares her best first aid tips.

JEANETTE: I remember rushing home from riding lessons every Wednesday to catch the latest episodes of Vet School and Vets in Practice, where today’s guest was one of the stars. The student from Bristol School of Veterinary Science became well-known in England as well as other countries. Later, she started her own veterinary clinic in Norway, and now she’s leading the vets in FirstVet. Trude Mostue, welcome.

TRUDE: Thank you very much. That was very impressive, actually. All the things you mentioned, I’d almost forgotten all of it because it’s a long time ago. But I have very nice memories from that time. I spent so much of my career on camera. It was very unusual, but at least I can say that I’ve been working as a veterinarian all these years. Now it’s actually 20 years.

JEANETTE: Now you are the boss of I think 15 vets in FirstVet. What is FirstVet?

TRUDE: This is really exciting, actually, because for so many years I’ve been working in the ordinary veterinary practices – which is very exciting and very nice. You meet people and you see the patients and you do diagnostics and you operate. And I still do that one day a week, but times are changing. I’ve been so lucky to take part in the newest of developments when it comes to what we call telemedicine, which is actually that you can have your veterinarian on your mobile.

So if you have a question or if you’re worried about your pet, let’s say, you’re out in the woods or if you’re in the mountains, on a boat or wherever – I actually did have a patient that called me from a sailboat the other day, and they were worried about their dog. It was vomiting. Maybe it was seasick. They were far away from the vet and they called me on video cam.

This service is actually based on consultations via video cam on your mobile, so I consult my patients by talking to them through a camera. Of course, I can’t check the pet physically, but I can tell a lot by just watching a pet and asking the owners to check different things. Also, they have a lot of questions, and I answer all the questions. Instead of googling, they will very often call us and they will feel reassured afterwards whether they should go to the vet or not.

JEANETTE: What are the most common questions you get and the most common injuries you see?

TRUDE: It’s a lot of first aid situations. For instance, one of the most common things people call me about – and the rest of the team, of course – is injuries to paws, like cuts. They’ve been cutting their paws on glass or different things when they’ve been for a walk. Then I have to talk to them and help guide them through how to clean the wound, how to make sure there’s no glass in the wound, and how to bandage the foot. Then I assess the wounds, whether they need to be stitched or not.

This is a quite cool thing to do because when you’re out there, maybe in the middle of the woods – or maybe you’re just home from a walk – it’s great to have someone to talk to and someone to guide you. So I think that’s the most common thing I see.

JEANETTE: Do you have any general guidelines? I know every injury is different, but what should I do if my dog gets a wound in the paw when I’m out hiking, for instance?

TRUDE: I think on a general basis, I always advise my clients maybe after they talk to me, because they always are missing a lot of equipment, I always think you should carry, wherever you are, a little first aid kit, which could include some bandaging, some antibacterial wash, maybe some scissors and some cotton and so on. I think the most important thing to do if you have a clean cut in the paw, and particularly under the paws, is to flush the wound, maybe just with some sterile saline water to make sure there’s no glass or dirt in the wound.

Once you’ve flushed and cleaned it, I think you need to dry it and then you bandage with cotton between the toes. People very often say they know how to bandage their hand, but the difference between a human hand and a dog paw is of course that they sweat a lot on their paws. So you have to make sure you put a lot of cotton in between the toes, for instance, before you put on the bandage.

So I think the most important thing when it comes to these kind of injuries is for people to think ahead, make sure they have what they need if it should happen. Saline, for instance, or chlorhexidine is excellent. A little bottle of chlorhexidine.

JEANETTE: But if you don’t have this, is it okay to use water?

TRUDE: Of course you can use water and whatever you have. I think the most important thing is to flush it so you don’t get the dirt staying in the wound. Then if you don’t have any bandaging material – which maybe that’s the realistic situation – if you are out in the woods, then maybe just put a sock on. Take your sock off and put the sock on.

What very often happens if you get cuts in those types of areas, you get a lot of bleeding. Some people panic when they see all this blood, but always remember that very little blood looks very, very dramatic, particularly when you have a white dog. [laughs] I have a lot of clients that call and they’re in full panic, full of blood, and saying “oh, there’s blood everywhere!” But actually, it just looks dramatic.

But it’s important to know how to stop the bleeding as well, because they can bleed an awful lot, and then you need to put a pressure bandage on. This is actually quite a simple thing to do, even if you don’t have bandaging material. You can be creative. You put something firm on the top of the wound and put pressure on it, and then you just put a long strip of something. It could still be your poor sock. [laughs] I think everyone should have some spare socks in their rucksack when they’re out for a walk.

And then just tie it really hard, and of course then it will stop bleeding after a little while. So I think that’s the most important thing when it comes to stopping bleeding in the wounds.

JEANETTE: When do you know if the dog is bleeding too much or if this is just normal bleeding, so to speak?

TRUDE: It’s really hard to know whether it’s a normal bleed or not because it really depends where the cut is. Sometimes if you’re unlucky, it’s been cut in a place where you have big blood vessels, and then you will have very dramatic blood loss. But you will know that because the blood is really pumping out.

Regardless of how much or how little, you should try to put a pressure bandage on. A normal dog that doesn’t have any blood diseases that stops the blood from clotting, it should stop bleeding very quickly, within minutes.

JEANETTE: We started talking about legs. When you are active with your dog, accidents can happen, and sometimes dramatic accidents like breaking a leg.

TRUDE: Oh my gosh, yes. That’s a very dramatic accident, and yes, that is a very acute emergency. You obviously have to go and see a veterinary clinic as soon as possible. But the things you can do, and the most important thing to do, is to stabilize the fracture. You probably will have to carry your dog, so I hope you have a Chihuahua and not a Rottweiler. But to stabilize the fracture is really important.

JEANETTE: What do you mean by stabilizing the fracture?

TRUDE: Again, if you’re out and about, you have to take whatever you have – and maybe you have to take two sticks on each side of the leg, and then you wrap a sock again, maybe. [laughs] Again we have to use socks. Maybe you should always wear two pairs of socks in case something happens. And long socks. So use something that you find to tie the sticks around the leg.

But of course, if it’s an open fracture, which is very dramatic, you have to make sure you rinse with some water or whatever you have accessible first, and then try to – I’m saying bandaging, but if you don’t have any bandage, then use whatever you have. A t-shirt, rip the t-shirt apart, and okay, you have to walk home in your bra, but never mind. [laughs]

JEANETTE: Most important is the dog.

TRUDE: Most important is the dog. So the most important point is to stabilize the fracture so it’s not getting worse by the time you reach the veterinarian.

JEANETTE: Other dramatic accidents could be choking, if your dog gets something in their throat.

TRUDE: Choking is actually not such a common acute emergency as you would think it is, but I have come across it a couple of times in my career. Personally, it was a quite dramatic experience because I was quite new in the profession. It was a dog that swallowed a little rubber ball. Those kind of things are quite dangerous when you’re playing with your dog and you let it play with small rubber balls because they get stuck in the back of the throat.

At this particular incident, the dog showed the typical symptoms of going a little bit blue. The tongue went blue. The dog was really stressed. It was not able to breathe, and it was just standing there looking really desperate.

The way you should handle a situation like this – and remember, differentiate between if it’s coughing and the airways are open – but you have to aim for open airways. You can actually practice the Heimlich maneuver on dogs.

JEANETTE: How do you do that on a dog?

TRUDE: The challenge we have in the veterinary world and in the dog world is obviously that we have very small dogs and we have very big dogs, like the Great Dane and the Chihuahua. They’re two quite different approaches.

With the very small dogs, you just have to lift them up, put them halfway upside down, and push their chest from the side.

JEANETTE: How rough can you be when you do this? Because I know with myself, I would be a bit scared to injure the dog.

TRUDE: It’s really hard to say because, again, it really depends. On a Chihuahua, of course you have to be a little bit more careful than you have to be with a German shepherd. You need to see some form of effect. You have to see that their chest is actually moving. The chest actually can take quite a lot of pressure. I can show you, but it’s difficult to explain in this type of format.

JEANETTE: I’m not quite done with the paws yet, because something that happens quite often is also that the dog may lose a claw or injure a claw.

TRUDE: Very common problem, you’re absolutely right. Of course, dogs walk around everywhere and they run around and they twist around, and one of the other most common problems we have is ruptured claws, fractured claws, or they actually manage to pull off the cover of the claw, so the nerve and the blood vessels are bare, which is quite dramatic. It doesn’t bleed so much, but it’s actually very, very painful.

What you always should do if you have an acute lame dog is to go through the claws. If he has just a partial fracture of the claw, it’s very painful. Sometimes you can see the claw is in a different angle. It’s not like a massive emergency, but it’s really painful, and the dog will be lame.

What I would say to that is that if the claw has broken, if it has a really big fracture in it, or if the capsule is off, then you have to come and see us. But you can put a bandage on so it doesn’t hurt so much in the meantime. To learn how to put a proper bandage on your dog’s leg is very important.

JEANETTE: It’s not always easy to see that something is wrong with your dog, but one thing that’s quite easy to see is if it’s vomiting or having diarrhea. What can you do if that happens?

TRUDE: Two of my favorite symptoms. [laughs] It’s the most common symptoms you will see in your dog in all of its life, really, because dogs do vomit and they do have diarrhea because of their feeding habits. They will eat anything. Well, my dog does, anyway, and it does induce vomit.

The most important thing is really to understand when your dog is vomiting and when it has diarrhea because it has eaten or stolen a piece of pizza – because that does happen – or when it is caused by something you should worry about.

I would say two things. The most important thing to look for is how is your dog in itself? Is there blood in the vomit and the diarrhea, and particularly the diarrhea? If we just talk about the diarrhea in itself, I have a lot of people sending me photographs of diarrhea, which is very nice.

JEANETTE: Lovely. [laughs]

TRUDE: It’s lovely, particularly if I’ve just had my dinner. [laughs] So I’m very used to assessing photographs of diarrhea. We can laugh, but there’s actually quite a lot of information to read from a photograph of diarrhea, or just to ask questions around the diarrhea, because that tells me quite a lot.

Let’s say you have a dog that is well in itself, it’s jumping around, it vomits a couple of times, and then he runs out again, and then he goes out to have liquid diarrhea. Then he comes running back in again and he wants to play. Then I would probably say it’s okay. He’s probably eaten something that doesn’t agree with his gastrointestinal tract. If it continues to be well in itself and it doesn’t seem affected and he still has diarrhea, I would still say that’s probably just something he has eaten.

But if he should start to be a little more sleepy, more fatigued, not interested in food, and maybe the diarrhea goes from just being soft to watery and maybe bloody diarrhea, and then he starts to vomit more and more, and maybe there’s blood in the vomit as well, then there’s reason to be worried.

Let’s go back to what you can actually do yourself. The situation you don’t need to be worried about, when the dog is bright and happy in itself, playing around, and he vomits and he has a little bit of diarrhea, but it’s still very happy and eating and everything – the way to handle that is actually to starve it for 24 hours and then swap the normal food with something easily digestible, like white fish and rice or chicken and rice. Dogs love that, normally. This is just to restart their stomach lining and the intestines. It’s to give it a break from whatever the dog has eaten.

JEANETTE: Should the chicken or the fish be raw or cooked?

TRUDE

JEANETTE: Today’s guest is Tom Andres from Germany. He is doing sprint and middle distance. Can you tell us a bit about how everything started?

TOM: It started now 25 years ago with my first Siberian husky, which was a show dog. After school, I was of the opinion I needed to have a dog. I needed to have a friend beside myself, doing many sports. So I thought it was a good opportunity to have a dog. Of course, it had to be a Siberian husky. It was nice-looking, black and white, blue eyes. So I bought the first one. It was a kind of show dog, but with already a nice body for running.

Then I started to meet the first people out of the competition scene who compete in the sled dog sport. I was interested, and half a year later I had four dogs and bought the first running Siberian huskies and started to compete in the sport.

Two years later it was then 16 Siberian huskies, so I was the guy who was jumping up very fast with the amount of dogs – which brings also some problems, because you should grow inside. Especially a kind of dog like this, which has not always the best behavior and it’s hard to teach them because they have their own head, and it’s a strong head. But I managed it after a few mistakes and after a few years. From mistakes you can just learn.

JEANETTE: What kind of challenges did you face?

TOM: One of the big challenges perhaps was the collecting of good dogs out of different kennels. If you want to have a good start, you need to go to the best kennels. But every kennel wants to reduce the problem dogs, so I was the one who got the best fighters. This was a problem, but I think it was very good for the purse of the veterinarians because I was there many times in the first years.

But we managed to do it on the other side. These dogs’ heads, really strong heads, which the people who sold me the dogs can feel after the first two years, when I started winning the races against them with the dogs they sold because they had a problem with this dog. I managed to get this in a lane that it’s still working. The secret always was to have a small kennel and less dogs. Then you can manage it.

You have the chance to pick out of a big kennel with perhaps 40 race dogs, you can pick out the problem dog because you have only 10, not 12 dogs, and you have more time for each individual. It was possible to bring them in a way where there was a handlebar. This was the start.

I was into the Siberian husky scene 7 years, and then looked over the border to the people on the other side, which was much faster than we, and fell in love with the Alaskans and with the Hounds. To this time, I was one of the best Siberian husky drivers, so it was easy for me to find a good kennel who would take nearly all the time. We are still friends, so after more than 20 years now, we are still friends. He’s not competing anymore, but he bought my whole race team, so I know all the team stayed together. He had quite good success a few years later. It was easy for me to step from the Siberian huskies to the hounds because the kennel was empty after a few days.

To the time I was racing the Siberian huskies, I was also going to the championships, like the German championship, European championship, world championships. You are always proud of yourself when you win something like this. It was the chasing after medals, let’s say. When I changed to the European hounds, my opinion also changed a little bit. I started to know people who had a completely different opinion to this and a completely different way of leading their dogs.

JEANETTE: Can you specify that?

TOM: Especially let’s say one name. It’s Heini Winter who is still a hero for me and is still I think one of the best dog guys in the world. How to lead dogs and how to think about all the race. He says winning is always super fantastic, everybody wants to win, but there’s only one guy who can win, and there are many guys behind. But if these guys behind do not exist, then also the winner is not there. He said always he loves to win, but also second place or perhaps tenth place – or if you have to give up a race, it’s not neck breaking. It’s still something we can live with.

In the end, we cannot win anything. On one hand, perhaps a sponsor or something like this, but this is not important in life. Important in life is to have fun with the things we do. I always have a talk with him about this because I’m very – I still like to win, to be honest. I give a lot to still be in front of the races or win the races. But when I talked to him, he said, “Okay, this time you don’t win, but it was fun. It was the same fun we had in first place like we have now in fifth place.” And he’s right.

JEANETTE: Yeah, many people tend to forget this, even if they do any kind of dog sport. It’s easy to forget, why are you doing this?

TOM: Yeah. Always keep in mind that if you have 100 competitors, there is only one on the top. Mostly it’s the three same guys for many years. As long as they have a superstar dog because they had the luck to get one of these real superstars, perhaps 1 of 1,000 dogs, as long as they have this dog, in this small part of his age where he can bring 100% or 110% – this is perhaps from 1.5 years or 5 or 6 years, depending on his weight and his desire to go – as long as this is like this, it will be always the same people who are in front if they work on themselves also.

People should not forget that nobody starts as a champion. everybody starts because he finds a solution or he finds a sport to come out of his normal business, day life, to come home from work, and then I take my friend – in this case it’s my dog – and go for a run in the forest, or go just for a walk, or play with him. It’s always important to think about this, why we start with this, and that we do it not for us and have a machine in front.

Always be careful of this machine, because we are the guys who are responsible for them. They always want to give 100%. If we overdo it and we do not keep him back, it’s easy to destroy our partner.

JEANETTE: Do you see this often, that dogs might be pushed a bit too hard?

TOM: Pushing is one side. The other side is perhaps also the organization responsible for a race or for a competition. They should also be on this side and say, “okay, the athletes, everybody wants to win and we have a big competition, but we are responsible that we look for them,” like a teacher is looking for children.

I think this is missed many times. If you go to some competitions and you see the dogs coming in shaking because the weather was much too extreme for let’s say a 5k run, and instead of shortening the distance, they say “no, we don’t shorten it because this is a competition and the dogs need to do 5k” – but if you run as a human in 20 degrees and have to do the same distance in 35 degrees, it is a big, big difference.

Like I always say, if the electricity circuit, if a fuse burns, I can take it out and put in a new one. But if the fuse of a dog burns, you never have the chance to reduce this and to make a new fuse inside. This dog will never give 100% because out of collapse, the organism of dogs always learn to stop earlier, to not reach this point anymore. We are responsible for this. We say this is too much or not, and it’s not something to be ashamed of to stop the race.

When you are in a race – and I also did it on myself one time – I was in a race, and in the middle of the race the dog was not healthy, but I was thinking “perhaps they can do it and then we have a one day break.” It could be. After 20 kilometers I stopped the race and went on the side. All the teams passed, and I walked back with the dogs to the finish line, because I said “for me, it’s done, because the dogs are not in the best health.” This you always have to remember.

JEANETTE: How do you see that now it’s enough for the dog? This could be a bit difficult for people, maybe, to know when to stop.

TOM: If you have one dog, like the canicross scene now, or two dogs, I think it’s not very difficult to see it. If you have a team of four, six, eight, or twelve dogs, the important thing is this team can only be as good as…

JEANETTE: As the weakest one on the team.

TOM: Yeah, as the weakest dog of the team. This dog you have to keep in your eyes. If this dog comes to the border, then you know we have to be careful. If perhaps one of your best dogs starts shaking or gets a problem or falling or was not drinking enough before the run, so they get a problem with water in the body, then you really have to think about what to do. It’s always easy to take out speed or to give them a break.

Even in a long race, if you go like me in a middle distance race for 45 kilometers, it’s not a problem to stop for 30 seconds or 1 minute. Give the dogs a snack. Let them perhaps go into the snow and eat some snow to get water back. Because if you lose the race in this 30 seconds, then from the beginning there was no possibility to win it.

Always be smart with this, because the dog you ruin in this day will not run the next day. If you see before that the dogs perhaps are not in the best condition, leave them at home. You win a race with the dog in the car, but with the dog in the team which is not possible to make what you have to do this day. The canicross people, I just can say be careful with this hot weather. The climate is changing so much at the moment, which we can see in the last 10 years in this sport. It’s getting warmer and warmer.

JEANETTE: And you actually have proof of this, because you have been tracking your training throughout the years with temperatures and everything.

TOM: In the beginning I was really tracking the trainings with temperature, humidity, how long was the distance, was the ground frozen or was it muddy or raining, whatever, and who was the best dog and who was not so good. I don’t do this now because now I’m training more out of feeling. But at the beginning I say it’s good for everybody who starts with this sport to do something like this, because you can learn a lot out of your mistakes. This is very important.

Let’s say if I see the training tracking 20 years ago, we had minus degrees going in September, and now I’m very lucky if I have minus degrees training in the beginning of December. This changed really a lot. Also, the snow conditions changed a lot, which we can see with the paws. When we started I never used booties because we nearly have always perfect snow. But now, the snow is melting, then freezing again, then it’s raining, then it’s snowing, then it’s freezing again. So take care of the paws because the paws are the things the dogs need for running. The use of booties and paw care cream gets more important, I think, in our bad conditions.

Mostly when I’m on the tracks, they are not perfect anymore, which has nothing to do with that people don’t work on the tracks. They do always the best out of the conditions they have.

JEANETTE: I interrupted you a bit. You started talking about the canicross people and what they have to be aware of.

TOM: The people should know that sometimes it’s better to lose a race or to stop a race, because there will be a next one next week or in two weeks and say, “I don’t give a shit about this weekend. I know my dog has a problem with the heat.”

It’s also individual. Every dog has a problem. There are existing dogs which have no problem, and if you see when the temperature is getting really complicated, around 15 degrees – which I think is already much too high; never touch a dog when it’s over 10 degrees – if you see this, look at the race and think, how could it be that the people who were only tenth place are now winning? This is especially because they have the dog which was not pulling so much all the time, which do not give 100%, always running 90%. But because of this, they don’t have a problem with the heat because they don’t pull so strong, so they don’t overheat so fast.

Also, let’s say you can steer it a little bit with breeding, that you take dogs which have less problems with hot weather. But some people say “breed the perfect dog for this,” but this is not existing. Every dog has a problem with hot weather, or if they have diarrhea, then you cannot say “I have to breed that the dog can run with diarrhea also, perfect.” The super mushers try to tell this to the people, but it’s not the truth.

Every creation on this planet has a limit. You can breed as long as you want; you cannot overstep this limit. Sometimes you have perhaps one individual who is the super superman, but this is very, very close.

The problem in the scene with less dogs, let’s say when the #1 in the four-dog class breeds with #2 in the four-dog class, it will not come out #1 for the six-dog class or for the eight-dog class, because the best dogs for this class were perhaps a little bit limited. They are limited in the distance because of the hard going or because of their big buddies. Mostly, the siblings or the offspring out of this combination has a limit which is even closer.

What we see now is that it’s going steps back. Especially in the middle distance – because the market at the moment for many dogs exists. You have breeders who want to fill this market and earn some money. It is like a business. But be careful of buying too many dogs of these self-called “gods of breeding.” They breed because they know they can sell the dogs. If I have about five or six females in the kennel and breed all six females, this has nothing to do with breeding. You breed your best dog to perhaps the best dog out of the kennel in front of you, or perhaps the one who’s next to you.

But this breeding only in their own kennel to have less expense, but a lot of benefit out of it because the market is there. That’s my opinion, it’s not the best. You can see if you open, for example, the social media, you can see puppies – they have much too much puppies. Always take care of where you buy your dogs and what you buy, not to breed diseases. More and more, I hear that dogs start to get problems with epilepsy or heart problems, and they have problems. They die in training from one step to the next because of a heart attack. Their heart stops working in one to the next minute.

A lot of times it’s a breeding thing because the dogs get more and more limited, and people don’t look for these diseases. They say “I have a champion. He has a problem, but he’s a champion.” The disease problem does

JEANETTE: Today’s guest is one of the world’s best athletes in agility. With her Shetland sheepdog Zelda, she placed third in this year’s European Open, and they have been on the podium at the World Championship two times. Eli Beate Sæther, welcome.

ELI BEATE: Thank you.

JEANETTE: Agility might look very easy when you look at some good athletes doing it, but it’s a lot of hard work behind it.

ELI BEATE: I thought that as well. When I first saw someone do agility, it looks like a dance, kind of, when you are handling your dog through the course. It’s nice when you’re seeing someone that has this good connection with her or his dog. You have to have a good basic to get this good rhythm, to get it to look like this dance. Absolutely much hard work to come there.

I think for someone it’s hard to get this rhythm through their whole career, but if you are always trying to find the small key points, I think you will come there.

JEANETTE:: On the course you are communicating with your dog in different ways, and everything goes so fast, but you use body language. You use your voice. What do you do to tell your dog what to do on the course?

ELI BEATE: I started with agility in 2008, and then I was just 12 years old. So I was very young myself. I had a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel and his name was Todd, and he didn’t want to work. He was just walking through the course. Then I didn’t have this much speed either, so the rhythm was not so good then. But after two years, I got my first Shetland sheepdog, Siraja. She is now 10 years old. With her it was much more speed.

The good thing with Todd was that I had to learn how to take – you have different ways to handle a dog through the course. You have front cross, you have rear cross, you have blind cross, and then you have different techniques you can use on the jump obstacles or the tunnels. With Todd, I really had to learn his crosses in a good way because it was so slow. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. It was never fast with Todd, but with Siraja I had this good rhythm in my own body, so when she ran faster than Todd, it was easy to me to do the same process with her. The rhythm was much better.

For other people that start their agility career with a fast dog, it can be very hard to learn these crosses in a good way because it’s not so often that you are repeating it on your own without the dog. You will always do it with the dog, and then it’s always too fast, and then you never learn it good enough. But if you have a slow dog, then you’ll learn it very well, and then it’s easier to do it with a fast dog afterwards.

I’m very grateful that I had Todd and I learned it in this good way at the beginning. It was much easier for me to then have Siraja. I was just 14 when I got her, so I was not that good a dog trainer then either, but when I then got Zelda that I have been in the World Championship and European Open with, I learned a lot more myself. We found this good connection and rhythm quite fast.

JEANETTE: How do you build this connection from the dog as a puppy? How do you start with an agility dog, and when do you start training?

ELI BEATE: Zelda is the first dog I really started to work with from a young age. The reason is that Siraja, when she was I think two years old, she got a big injury, a slipped tendon. Her tendon where her ankle is, like her Achilles tendon, was slipping. So then she started to limp. Because of that, she had an operation. First she had one operation on her first leg, and after rehabilitation, in 6 months she had the same injury on the other leg.

The vet I had talked to said to me that that could happen, that when you get it on the first leg, it can come on the second leg also. And that did happen with Siraja. Then I had to go through a new rehabilitation. Like I said, I was quite young, so maybe 15 years old. I was tired of waiting at this time, so I started to search on the internet for different things to do with her because I couldn’t do agility at this time.

Then I found Silvia Trkman. She is a well-known person in the agility society, so I think it was because of that I got her link or her YouTube channel, and I was so inspired. She had a lot of good movies. She was doing a lot of tricks with her dog. I was going to her YouTube channel, and I had seen some of her videos with the dogs that did a lot of stuff. I remember I think some of the first videos I saw was this washing video. She taught the dogs to wash on the table with this towel and taking things out of the washing machine with clothes and so on, and on the kitchen floor and on the kitchen bench and so on.

I love to have it clean in the house myself, so I was like, “oh, this is nice to teach the dog this stuff.” [laughs] So I went to her YouTube channel and started from the beginning. I just scrolled down and saw her first video. Then I worked my way through her whole channel, I remember, while Siraja was still in this rehabilitation period. This was also during the summer holiday.

After that I started to try these things. I started to do a lot of tricks with her because that was a good thing to do when I couldn’t do agility.

After that day, most of her meals we did training. I took her breakfast and I tried to teach her new tricks. I started, of course, with the simplest ones that she also knew, like sit, laying down, standing, and then rolling on the floor, and then also going in circles. I asked her to take this towel in her mouth and roll around with the towel so that she could hide in a towel.

I started with walls, I remember. I wanted her to lift one paw and then both front paws and hind legs up to the wall and so on. So she had to begin on the walls so I could strengthen her front. I also asked her to “sit pretty,” I think it’s called. Sitting pretty on her hind feet when her feet were better, and also to stand on two feet so I could strengthen her back, and a lot of this stuff.

In the beginning she didn’t like it at all. She thought I was a little bit – when I told her to sit, because I often asked her “Can you sit, please?” and then she was like, “Yes, I can, but I don’t want to.” I was like, “Please sit down,” and she was like, “No.” Then she just went away because she didn’t like that we had to train for food. She was like, “Why are you telling me to do stuff? Why are you doing that?”

So we had a little trouble in the beginning, but after a while I was working with it, and then she really understood and she started to like it. So after a while, when I took her breakfast, she was running after me and wanted to train with me in the morning because it was a routine.

It differed if I could do it every morning, but I tried to, and also in the evening. In that way you get a really good connection with the dog because when they are getting food, they are getting it through you, and that’s a very positive association. Of course you’re getting a strong bond with them then.

That was also what Silvia thought. Her mindset is much that agility and everything else – also obedience and most dog sports are not just tricks. That is a mindset that I use a lot as well. You have to take a big sport or maybe a hard thing to teach a dog, and you have to break it down into small pieces and then start from scratch, and build it piece by piece, and in the end you can do the whole thing together. Small tricks are just a little piece that is good to have in the bottom because it strengthens your connection.

Then I got Zelda. Zelda was born when Siraja had her third operation for slipped tendon. I think this was a nice time to get Zelda because I was so extremely crying, I remember, when she had this last operation, and I was so sad. So it was a huge motivation for me to get a puppy then. And already from Day 1, when she was eight weeks old, I started to take her breakfast.

I took her breakfast and collected it in a little bowl and took it with me, either on the kitchen floor or the living room or something, or maybe in the garden, and I started to train. I remember when she was so young, she was struggling to find the food in my hand, actually, because she was sniffing a lot. She couldn’t really find it because they are not so good at looking at that age. But she found it.

So I started to teach her with a clicker. That was the first thing. I was giving her food and then clicking so she got this association with food and click. That was the beginning. All the way, the food came through me. That was something that she took fast. After she had learned click, I started to teach her different tricks, but very, very easy when she was so young.

I actually saw what she was doing, and if she did something that I think was a good thing – maybe she turned around, maybe she was laying down, maybe she was barking – I was just clicking for it.

JEANETTE: So you were letting dogs come with the ideas. You don’t necessarily tell the dog what to do or guide the dog. You let the dog have ideas itself.

ELI BEATE: Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s an important thing also to get their motivation up, that they can decide themselves as well. It’s like if you had a kid. You are not always telling them what to do or how to play, but you can play with them. I think you are a team when you are a dog and a handler, so it’s important to respect the other team member, and that’s the dog. You have to look at what the dog wants and how the dog wants it, and then you have to work your way around it.

And some dogs don’t want any food at all because they are full, and then it’s a little bit hard to train them, maybe. I have had some of those puppies that are so round when I get them, they have eaten so much at their breeder, and then they aren’t interested in food at all. But after some days they are, of course, hungry, so then you can train with them more easily.

You have to make the rules together. Of course you are the leader, kind of, but you have to respect the dog. These small things give you an extremely good connection, I think, because you get your own language with the dog and you have this feeling for them.

Zelda is the closest one, absolutely. I have a little puppy, 10 months, but I haven’t trained her so much yet, so I don’t have the same strong connection. But we are getting closer and closer, and I can feel it because of this type of training.

Quite early on, I’m starting to think of agility because that’s my sport. Then I’m thinking, okay, what’s agility about? It’s about you have this jump and you have these tunnels and you have the dog walk, A frame, seesaw, and slalom. That’s pretty much it. I’m starting to think, okay, that’s the obstacles. That’s what they have to know.

Then I have to break it down to small pieces. Since jump and tunnel are the most common obstacles, I start with that one. The tunnels are something that they can run through at a really early age, I think, because puppies are running anyway. If they’re running through a tunnel or if they’re running in the woods, it doesn’t matter. Of course you don’t have to press them to run full speed all the time or in sharp turns and so on, but I don’t think it will hurt them to run through the tunnels a little bit.

Then you have jumping. With Zelda, I started to teach her to go around a little stick. This type of stick was quite small. The reason for that is because I want her tight. I thought that to teach her to turn around this stick, to just go around it to the left or to the right, both ways, it was good for two things. One, I could use these tricks further in the jumping and agility, and two, it is good stretching for her back. She’s really getting flexible in her back.

I started with the clicker and shaping, so I just rewarded her for looking at the stick, and then I always rewarded her near the stick. After a time, I was rewarding her a little bit so that she went a little bit around, went a little bit to the left. It didn’t take such a long time before she understood “oh, I have to go around a whole circle.” Then she started to do that. Then I had to teach her the other way, because they often have this favorite side.

In the beginning it really goes slow, but like I said, slow is smooth and smooth is fast. So nowadays when I tell her to do the stick, she really goes fast through either to the right or left. When she did a whole circle and afterwards she did two circles to the same side, then I started to say a verbal cue on it. Then I started to say either “left” or “right,” or if you have anything else you want to say to them, you can use that word. That’s the same word that I use in the agility course today.

When I then introduced her for a jump for the first time, when she was maybe four to six months old, the bar was quite low, of course. It wasn’t high at all. But I was trying these left and right commands for the first time on the jump. She thought it was maybe a little bit big wing because she was used to this small stick, so she was looking at me and saying, “Seriously? Are we going around this big thing now? Why?” So she tried to go through it.

But in the end she understood it was the wing she had to go around. It took me just one training and then she understood it. That was a very nice thing to see, that she was developing her skills in that way, so I was quite satisfied. Because this was the first time I’d tried this on a new dog. I saw that she really understood.

She’s a thinker. Not every dog is a thinker, but Zelda is. I can use my knowledge that I’ve gotten through tricks, and I can use it for agility. I know that not every dog can do that so fast, so you have to be patient with them as well. My youngest dog now uses much more time to understand that what we are doing in the kitchen or in the living room is the same as what is going on on the agility course. I don’t know why. It’s just genetics or just the head and the mindset to the dog. So we always have to do a different thing with different dogs.

These tricks I think are very important to get this strong connection. I think if you are able to break everything you will teach them down into small tricks, then it gets very easy.

JEANETTE: Hello and welcome to the first episode of our brand new podcast! We`re starting with one of the best mushers in the world. He won the Iditarod 4 times and broke the record 2 times. When he's not training or racing with his dogs, he is sharing his philosophy on how to build a team with everything from athletes to business leaders, and today he will share it with you – Dallas Seavey, all the way from Alaska – welcome to Norway!

DALLAS: I'm happy to be here in Norway once again. I've raced the Finnmark now twice and over the last two years I think I have been in Norway about five months. Mostly of course for the races but also coming over in the fall and preparing things or like now – coming over for a visit!

JEANETTE: Dogs have been a big part of your life, as far as I know since you were a kid?

DALLAS: My family has been mushing for 55 years now. It started with grandfather moving to Alaska because he was interested in sleddogs and the Alaskan way of life. It was supposed to be a couple of years, but he got hooked, and sleddogs have been a big part of my family's life ever since. I was born into a kennel of mini dogs, so all of my memories are around sleddogs, my earliest memories with sleddogs. That has been my life, yes.

JEANETTE: But you started doing a totally different sport when you were younger, you did wrestling?

DALLAS: Yeah, I wrestled for about seven years where that was my main focus. That is also something both my dad and grandpa had done. That was my experience as human athlete which I think has really been helpful in many ways to be more of what I consider is a coach – teaching athletes, which in this case is dogs. In a 1000 mile race the human has to be a part of that team and be an athlete as well, but our main value is supporting the dogs so that they can perform at their best. It is about developing a team that will do anything for you. I would not say make them do something for you, but make them a part of the team, and whatever that team does, we do it wholeheartedly and together. That is very important.

A sleddog is very much a pack animal. They rely on the security and the strength of a pack and they need to feel secure in that pack and they need to feel that if we’re gonna run out into a blizzard or cross a big river, og through deep snow, they’re never doing it alone. Even if they are the leader they know the rest of the team is right behind them and they’re gonna help them through this. At the core of how do you get the dog team or any dog to do what you want or to do it whole heartedly with you. It comes down to trust. It comes down to them knowing that you are never gonna ask the dog or dog team to do something that they can not do well. And I don’t mean just accomplish the task, but do it well and have fun doing it. Thats based on trust and a lifetime of teaching them that this is going to be fun, we are going to do it together and Im nevver going to ask you to do something you cant do.

JEANETTE: What do you do to build that confidence and when do you start?

DALLAS: It absolutely starts as a puppy. Every interaction you have with that dog form day one you're teaching them something, whether it is continuously or whether you are aware of that you are teaching them something, they are learning from every interaction with you, so it is important that every interaction is the right kind of interaction.

As a person you can’t fake that. You have to become the person you want to be. You can’t pretend to be in a certain way or pretend that you are honest or trustworthy. You just can’t do that every single day. And dogs will see through any act so that really needs to be your personality or your character.

But in the beginning we’re training Superman. That’s what I tell every handler we have working there. We’re training Superman with that meaning that we are training this dog to be invincible. To be able to do anything. The secret is to show them that they can do anything and never show them anything they can’t do.

In the beginning the human is the new thing in their environment. When they are little they are used to their mother, their little dog house and their siblings and as a person when we come into the pen, we’re the new thing that’s being introduced.

By being surrounded by the things they are familiar with it helps bridge the gap with something new. When they get to be a little bit older, when they are at five weeks, by now they are used to the human being in the pen, bringing the puppies with them in the house and petting them and whatever. Now its time to goon little walks and I really love this transition because now when we take the puppy, usually just one maybe two, out into the field or wherever we want to go or hike somewhere – obviously with a five week old puppy we are not going very far, but it is interesting to see where now the environment is what’s new and the human is the one familiar thing. This is the major transition where we are no longer the new thing in their life, and for the rest of their life were gonna be the thing that helps bridge the gap between the familiar and the unfamiliar. We're gonna help interpret the world for these dogs, we're gonna help them understand every new thing they see whether that is a city when you are getting ready for the Iditarod or a blizzard or a storm in the mountain on the Iditarod trail or some of my lead dogs go and do presentations and they will be on a stage in front of 3.000 people. Whatever that environment change is, I am always the bridge.

JEANETTE: If something wrong happens and your dog has a bad experience – how do you handle it?

DALLAS: Calmly. It is not what the challenge is, it’s how the team handles the challenge. Things happen in life. You’re gonna have good days, bad days – things happen when you are mushing with a team. You’re gonna get caught in a blizzard, and how do you handle it? I think the dogs are willing to, or any team, is willing to forgive if things are done honestly and with the teams best interest in mind.

So take for example you get into a big blizzard and maybe it is more than you can mush through, but if you look at it from a dog’s point of view, they never knew that we were supposed to go through the blizzard. They never knew that we were supposed to end up at another checkpoint, that is a human mentality and understanding. What they do know is that we found a somewhat sheltered place and waited out the storm. Yes it is windy and yes it is cold but we as a group made this decision and the musher was always in control in contrast to if the musher keeps pushing, because in our mind we have to make it to the next checkpoint and if ever the dog say “I can’t do what they’re asking me to do” then you just broken trust and you’re gonna end up camping in the middle of the blizzard but it will be because the dogs couldn’t make it. That`s an entirely different setting.

If you are in a bad situation or if something goes not how you planned – take control of it. Take a controlled landing rather than a crash landing. Try to find a way to regain control of the situation and find out: What is the best thing I can do for this dog team right now? In 10 seconds, 10 days or over the next 10 years?

JEANETTE: Is that a common mistake, that their focus is a bit wrong?

DALLAS: Most common mistake and an honest mistake is that we see things from a human perspective. Most people have spent their entire life being a human.

When we see a problem we naturally see that problem from a human perspective but our team is not a team of humans, our team is a team of dogs. They will look at the same problem very differently. While we think we are solving the problem or think it shouldn’t be a problem because we can cognitively understand that is something the team doesn’t necessarily see.

Always remember that you have to look at the problem from your dog’s point of view, not your point of view. Think about if you’re travelling with a dog anywhere – we are gonna think logistically, like are we going to catch the next flight or do I have enough fuel to make it , where are we going to spend the night? Those are not problems to your dog! All they know is they have been in the crate and they really have to pee!

Look at what is the problem for the dog? Also, the dog may not see any problem but yet the human is all stressed out, and now they are starting to think are the human or my leader of this pack irrational? Cause here they are totally stressed over something that the dog sees no problem.

Other times we can cognitively understand that the next checkpoint is only three miles away and it has been a long day but it is not a big deal – we’re almost there. But we only know that because we can see the GPS and we know the plan. The dog doesn`t know the plan or see the GPS so you always have to be aware of maybe they are starting to be nervous and you are not supporting them or acknowledging their concern. See the problem as your dog sees it.

JEANETTE: How do you use your knowledge to motivate them?

DALLAS: First of all I don’t generally try to motivate them to do more than they should because I don’t want to push a team. That is not really the goal. The goal is to support the team and if the team is well hydrated, well rested and has good body fat they are going to do well. And this comes back to a lifetime of training and teaching these dogs that every time we take off for a run they’re gonna be able to make it to the next stop pulling hard, having a good time – they are not going to get tired on this run and that`s something you have to do with them every single day.

I hate doing long runs. I almost never do long runs and races because you teach the team that they has to preserve themselves. You’re not going to protect them, they have to back off, they have to decide not to pull so hard and that’s not something I ever want my team to learn. My guys spend their entire life learning that they can lean into the harness, work hard and I will be responsible enough to stop before they get tired. It is not a trick to get them to work hard, it is just teaching them that they can always work hard and they’re never going to get too tired doing that.

JEANETTE: How do you start training a young dog?

DALLAS: Slowly. I have talked to a lot of different mushers and people in different dog sports and a lot of people are very opinionated on when you start putting a harness on your dog. I think that is highly individual and I don’t think there is any hurry in my specific sport.

I start out doing a lot of loose running, puppy walks to the forest. You are building confidence, a good agility base on that dog by bouncing through the forest – this is great development. I usually end up putting a harness on a dog around a year old. That’s a highly individual thing. Some puppies you can put them in a team and hook up six puppies that have never had a harness on before and they do great. Other groups I will spend a lot of time doing canicross with them, getting them comfortable to their harness.

Some dogs I will put a harness on them and let them run loose next to the team and let them gradually decide when they are comfortable enough to buddy up next to their brother or sister and join the team. That’s a great way of overcoming the fear og being tied together and usually a loud cart or four wheeler behind them, sometimes a sled that is making strange noises. They can get comfortable with those noises from a little bit of distance.

Then the first year that they are in harness, between one and two years old, it`s really about repetition. I don`t care about building any cardiovascular base, it`s just getting out there, doing exercise five days a week. Up to maybe 20 mile runs, which for a long distance sleddog is nothing. That’s just a fun jog.

The next year, between two and three, they`ll actually start doing some more serious training but now their bodies are primarily fully developed.

Emotionally, mentally they are not fully developed, they’re still very immature. They are not going to tryout or race in my team until they are three years old, and even as three-year-old’s they are rookie, I`m not relying on them. A lot of times we skip that third year and don’t count on them until they are four.

JEANETTE: How do you put together a team and decide how to mix young dogs with experienced dogs?

DALLAS: One of the fun arts of this thing is putting together a team. Your first job is to develop each individual dog. Once you’ve done that you can start to kind of bring them together into a team.

I’ve never had so many dogs that’s been like trying to build that team and this fits better. It’s always been these are the dogs we have, these are the best athletes and they are going to have to work together and we have to solve those problems, work through those problems.

Sometimes that means sometimes you get dogs that simply does not get along. Obviously we can keep them separated but is there some anxiety because this dog is here so trying to develop these relationships and trying to make these dogs be comfortable with each other and around each other. I think you have to recognize if this is a young team or an old team or some of each, and what is our strength?

If it is mostly a young team on a long distance race our strength is probably going to be more speed, but we are going to have to keep the runs shorter and do more frequent rest. If it is just an old team that does not have that top end speed they probably do have a little more confidence and developed endurance and strength that way so we’re probably going to do longer slower runs, keep the speed down. When you recognize the team you do have, you then have to find how does this team be successful? How do I play to their strengths and avoid their weaknesses?

JEANETTE: Can you tell us a bit more about your dogs – how many do you have, how do they live? As far as I know you are building a new kennel, or did you already do it?

DALLAS: Yeah, I moved about two years ago and finally had a big piece of property where I could build the kennel I wanted to build for some time. I have spent many years trying to figure out what a perfect kennel look like? What we came up with is more of a zipline system of tethering dogs.

I’ve played with the idea of pens but honestly, with a large kennel I don’t like pens for two main reasons: One – it decreases the interaction with the dogs. You always have a gate between you and the dog and as it is now I can walk through the yard and pet one dog and the next do

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