Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Samantha Copus – Jefferson County Parents Supporting Parents

:04–:33 – Samantha Copus – “That's the main piece. That's the secret sauce of peer support. Is connection, is that you can show me the part of you that you think is the worst, and I'm still going to show up and tell you, like, Oh, that's okay. How do we move forward? How do you want to move forward? Because nothing you've done changes what I think you're worth, and I'm still going to show up and support you. And I think that's when you start breaking down those barriers and giving these parents, you know, something they couldn't get anywhere else.”

:41-3:29 – Luke – Opening, Samantha’s Bio, and Opening

The history of peer support goes back long before we had formal systems like child protection or mental health. 

It wasn’t until fairly recently that these peer support and mentor models were translated to child welfare. So I wanted to learn more about the model that is being implemented in Wisconsin.

Parents Supporting Parents is a peer support program designed in Iowa for parents involved in the Child Protection System that is now implemented here in a handful of counties across Wisconsin. 

Samantha Copus is a mother to two children and identifies as a person in long term recovery. Samantha has a variety of lived experiences ranging from mental health, substance use disorders, domestic violence and being a mother who had a child in the child welfare system, all which qualify her now to serve as a parent partner in Jefferson County as part of the Parents Supporting Parents program. 

3:29-3:37 – Samantha – Thank you.

3:38-4:01 - Luke – Why are peer support programs such as Parents Supporting Parents needed today? 

4:02-5:02 – Samantha – What we were doing without it wasn’t working. Families weren’t feeling heard, weren’t feeling connected. 

“You wouldn’t hire a tour guide that’s never been to that destination.”

5:03-6:00 – Luke – I’d like to dive deeper into the ‘why’ behind one of today’s focus areas: social connectedness. Why do you think peer support—and your role as a parent partner in the Parents Supporting Parents program—is so critical to improving social connectedness for the caregivers and parents you serve?"

6:01-9:07 – Samantha – Parenting alone can be isolating. Peer support allows for non-judgmental showing up and walking the journey with the parent. 

“It’s the child welfare system, not the parent welfare system. Who’s going to be looking after these parents who are looking out for their children?”

Social connection is the secret sauce that breaks down barriers and allows the parent to share their darkest moments and still know that that person will keep showing up.

9:08-10:04 – Luke – This perspective helps explain why there is growing momentum behind the incorporation of lived experience into our systems and decision-making. It’s difficult to teach the emotional experience of being on the other side of child welfare. 

It is important to take that first step of acknowledging that lived experience should be a part of our systems. It’s another to scale it so that it can have a greater impact. 

So what does Parenting Supporting Parents do? And what does it hope to accomplish or change in the child welfare system and for parents and caregivers?

10:05-13:20 – Samantha – Parents Supporting Parents (PSP) is an evidence-based program out of Iowa that is voluntary for parents involved in the child welfare system. The program is growing across the state – Rock, Milwaukee, Eau Claire, Jefferson. 

We are also looking at it moving further upstream so that we can work with families to prevent child welfare involvement. Rock County hired two parents who previously worked with a PSP partner.

13:21-14:21 - Luke – It can be difficult to scale promising models, so it is promising to hear that Parents Supporting Parents is scaling across the state and within counties. What are some of the key components of your role? How do they impact the parents that you serve? 

14:22-19:09 - Samantha – Parent Partners support parents at court, by transporting them to services, processing through what they need during those car rides or on the phone, referring to services. Sharing space. Providing another voice of lived experience during meetings with professionals. 

Participate in trainings on foster care placements to provide additional perspective. Peer support in a system shows that we are seeking alignment to find solutions for families.

“I think having peer support embedded in your system is a system that is ready to hold itself accountable.”

19:10-20:54 – Luke – The magic happening during those drives - to appointments or court—when the most honest conversations often take place. It’s something that’s hard to evaluate or formalize or even train staff on in a program, but as you said, these moments are critical for connection and building trust, particularly for people who’ve been isolated by challenges like domestic violence or substance use.

Given how demanding this work can be—requiring, for example, you to revisit some of your darkest moments—how important is it for you to have other parent partners to confide in or lean on when you’re feeling overloaded?"

20:55-24:35 - Samantha – They are the supports I didn’t know that I needed. Parent Partners work closely together. 

24:36-25:03 - Luke – Where do you see the greatest impact in your 18 months, almost two years in this role?

25:04-30:27 – Samantha – At the macro-level, it’s been great seeing more and more people interested in this work. At the micro-level, the change that can happen when there’s one healthy, supportive person in someone’s life. “I have had a client tell me that they told me something that they’ve never told anyone before.”

Transformation can happen when people feel connected and believed in. Child welfare workers value her perspective and support of the parent. 

“The single most frustrating thing is screaming and feeling like no one can hear you.”

“Having peer support embedded can keep people compassionate instead of complacent.” 

30:28-33:09 - Luke – Social isolation is a growing crisis. The U.S. Surgeon General’s 2023 report on social isolation and loneliness highlighted this epidemic, and more recently, a report on parents’ mental health revealed that nearly half of all parents feel overwhelmed by stress most days. It’s sobering but underscores the importance of building social connectedness.

• Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Social Isolation - US Surgeon General
• Raj Chetty

With that in mind, I’d love for you to reflect on how your role as a parent partner aligns with our four critical pathways, which are:

1. Social Connectedness;
2. Economic Stability;
3. Community Collaborationwhere we hope to improve coordination among systems and services to better serve families. And finally, 
4. Workforce Inclusion and Innovation, which looks at how we might diversify the workforce to reflect those being served and also address challenges like burnout.

Feel free to take this in any direction that you’d like.

33:10-38:02 - Samantha – PSP is evidence-based which has shown to lower reentry rates for those that have had a Parent Partner. Parent Partners assist a lot with Economic Stability by creating bridges to housing and food stability, access to benefits and job opportunities. Lived Experience partners stand between theory and reality. 

$2000 prescription metaphor. In theory it works, in practice the patient can’t afford it. 

Mandated reporting is mandated supporting in the PSP world. 

38:03-39:42 - Luke - How might communities implement a role like parent partners or a program like Parents Supporting Parents?

For those listening who are inspired by this model, what do you believe are the critical conditions for implementing and scaling it?

Beyond that, what other conditions, practices, or opportunities do you think are essential to successfully implement and scale this model? And how do we ensure there are enough parent partners and enough support for you to meet the demand within each community?"

39:43-43:20 - Samantha – Contact Department of Children and Families. This work requires authenticity. Look around your community as there are likely lived experience helpers already doing the work. Make it an equitable relationship with your peers. 

• Department of Children and Families

43:21-44:32 - Luke – This conversation has been both inspirational and instructive. It challenges our mental models and hopefully moves us to consider the importance of equity and the role that lived experience brings to it. Gratitude.

44:33-44:52 - Samantha – Thank you! 

44:53-45:07 – Luke – Thank you, Samantha!

45:12-46:53 - Luke – 3 Key Takeaways 

1. “You wouldn’t hire a tour guide that’s never been to that destination.” As Samantha goes on to say, this doesn’t take away from the knowledge, expertise, and dedication of system staff. Rather, it’s a powerful statement about the deep personal experience and understanding of the system from a parent who has been through it that can provide a complementary perspective to paint a more complete picture.
2. “The secret sauce of peer support is connection, where you can show me the part of you that you think is the worst, and I'm still going to show up for you.” As Marlo said in episode 4, we are more than our darkest moments. Standing with someone so they can get through those darkest moments to see their light again can often be the most transformative service we can give. 
3. “I think having peer support embedded in your system is a system that is ready to hold itself accountable.” And ““Having peer support embedded can keep people compassionate instead of complacent.” There are so many ways in which a system can be held accountable, so that first statement is worth reflecting on for a while. I chose to follow it with the second statement because I feel that we can always be reminded why we, the people that make up these systems, wanted to do this work in the first place. 

47:05-49:00 – Luke – Closing Credits

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