Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Marlo Nash – Children’s Home Society of America

:00-:15 – Marlo Nash - “It’s really important to understand that the information we understand through people’s experiences is knowledge that can be used to change systems, to make practices and policies better.” 

:22–3:33 – Luke Waldo – Opening, Marlo’s Bio, and Welcome

Lived experience, lived expertise, context experts… For the past many years, we have seen a movement towards including or elevating or integrating the voice of lived experience into our work. But what does that really mean? What does that mean for the person that has lived through the child welfare system? What does that mean for the people working in the system? What are we trying to accomplish or change, and how might we do this better? 

If you have considered any of these questions or find yourself at a loss as to what the answers might or should be, then you’re in the right place. Over the next three episodes, we will be exploring these questions, many lessons learned as our guests worked through these questions, and the strategies designed and implemented by people with lived experience who, today, are leading others with lived experience. 

Today’s episode, along with next week’s, will share what was learned during this year’s Wicked Problems Institute national convening titled “Unlocking the Power of Lived Experience through True Collaboration,” hosted by Children’s Home Society of America or CHSA and the Jordan Institute for Families at the University of North Carolina School of Social Work.

Today you will hear from Marlo Nash, managing director of CHSA, who led the planning and execution of the convening. 

• Wicked Problems Institute 2024
• Jordan Institute for Families

3:34-3:57 – Marlo Nash – As the podcast’s biggest fan, it’s a pleasure being here.

3:58-4:45 – Luke – Why do we need to give more attention and action to integrating lived expertise into our systems and organizations?

4:46-8:01 – Marlo – Why we need to create the answers by providing safe spaces to learn. Lived experience is knowledge that informs how we can improve systems, practices and policies. 

Overarching theme of Building Equitable Pathways to Child and Family Well-being, and this year the theme was Unlocking the Power of Lived Experience through True Collaboration. 

“How do we do this for real, for real.” 

8:02-8:37 – Luke – Recognizing Marlo and CHSA for pulling off an inspiring virtual Wicked event. What are objectives and aspirations of Wicked? What does it hope to change?

8:38-12:40 – Marlo – CHSA’s mission and vision, and how Wicked supports this. Our systems and organizations have historically underappreciated the contributions of lived experience partners. Six conditions of systems change. Dig deeper in practice around integrating lived experience into our work.

The current transactional state of Lived Experience in our systems practices.

People with lived experience are willing to share their stories, often traumatic, but also their expertise to make changes that will improve outcomes for children and families now and for future generations.

• Six Conditions of Systems Change - FSG

12:41-13:45 - Luke – It’s important to acknowledge that we haven’t done this right or even caused harm. What is powerful about CHSA and Wicked is that we can acknowledge these challenges together across states and organizations.

13:46-14:08 - Marlo – Co-creating with lived experts is exciting, but can also retraumatize.

14:09-14:22 – Luke – What happened at Wicked this year?

14:23-23:38 - Marlo – Wicked is the event in which our 23 state members bring a team of public and private partners, funders, lived experience partners, so that we can hear our unique perspectives from one another.

Overview of CHSA, Wicked and the value of sharing unique perspectives from different sectors and roles.

Overview of the format of the day and introduces our 3 plenary speakers and their expertise and focus.

• Bryn Fortune - Nurture Connection Family Network Collaborative
• Sixto Cancel – Think of Us
• Anthony Barrows – Network of Intersectional Professionals

Synthesizers and their roles.

Themes that came up throughout the day:

Power imbalance. Put people and how they are feeling at the center. See empathetically. Move from storytelling and consultation to prioritization of informed-decision making. House metaphor and paint colors and curtains. Listen deeply even when it’s hard to hear. Relationships and community are the heart of doing this work.

23:39-24:33 - Luke – How might we implement these lessons learned into our practice, organizations, and systems?

24:34-26:05 - Marlo – Wicked has a graphic illustrator who captures the themes throughout the day. We encourage you to use it for ideas and inspiration. 

• Graphic Illustration – Wicked Problems Institute 2024
• A Visual Approach – Graphic Illustrators

26:06-26:45 - Luke – How do you see CHSA’s work and this year’s Wicked aligning with our SFTCCC Critical Pathways?

• Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities Critical Pathways

26:46-34:26 - Marlo – Engaging with Lived Experts requires that we center social connectedness. People are made up of lots of different parts, and we often see the worst parts of people as they are experiencing the darkest moments of their lives when they come to child welfare, for example. We must recognize that they are a whole person and they have many strong parts that we aren’t seeing right now. Their social connectedness and belonging are critical in understanding their whole self.

Workforce Inclusion and Innovation aligns well with the concept of Intersectional Professionals. Everyone wants appropriate boundaries to be set so that they can feel safe in their work. Everyone wants the support and resources needed to be their best self at work. How do we create those conditions that will make our workplaces positive spaces where they can be their whole selves?

Lived experience can illuminate what we really need to hear.

34:27-35:26 - Luke – I have seen how effective advocacy with policymakers by showing the data and research that is also supported by the lived experience of patients can be. Our mental models often allow us to have greater empathy for a family who has a child with cancer than a family who is involved in the child welfare system because of poverty. 

35:27-38:04 - Marlo – “Listen deeply even when it’s hard to hear.” People with Lived Experience shouldn’t be paraded in front of policymakers, but rather put in a position much like an Ambassador – see Sixto next week – where they are an engaged part of the process and impact.

38:05-38:49 - Luke – How might we implement some of these strategies to advance the vision of Wicked and CHSA?

38:50-48:53 - Marlo – Encourages listeners to check out the Show Notes and the graphic illustration. Engage with partners with Lived Experience and Wicked participants to deepen knowledge and strategies around how to integrate lived experience into your work. 

Pairing lived experience with research and science. Dean Ramona talked about lived experience as “a way of knowing”. Research Agenda on the 21st Century Child and Family Well-being. CHSA is a network of Scholar Practitioners who seek to confront the Wicked Problems in our systems. 

What policies – both legislative and organizational – need to be changed? 

We ideate so that we can work backwards from that big vision. Increasing authentic engagement with people with lived experience to make decisions together. 

“Marrying data, science, service, research, and advocacy with humanity and equity.”

Examining mental models around how we engage with people with lived experience. What mental models exist in our community?

Wicked is not a day of learning, but a medium to stay in community all year long. 

• The National Research Agenda for a 21st Century Child and Family Well-Being System
• Unsticking Stuck Mental Models – Collective Impact Forum

48:54-51:27 - Luke – My hope is that Wicked and this podcast will have ripple effects on our listeners. Wicked inspired me to build new relationships with partners including partners in New Jersey and Delaware to learn from one another and scale our work. Thank you for your partnership and vision.

51:28-53:30 - Marlo – Thank you for your work on this podcast that has challenged us to think about our mental models. 

53:31-54:46 – Luke – 3 Key Takeaways 

1. We need to move away from transactional relationships where people with lived experience are asked to share their darkest moments or to briefly consult after most decisions have already been made, and towards building authentic relationships that bring the whole person into decision making from the foundation to the curtains.
2. Listen deeply even when it’s hard to hear. Humility and the ability to acknowledge the harm that our systems have caused are at the heart of building trust and learning how to do better through partnership with families.
3. How might we create the conditions within our workspaces where intersectional professionals and community partners with lived experience can be their whole selves? Marlo asked this important question today. Come back next week to hear Anthony Barrows, Sixto Cancel, and Bryn Fortune answer it.

54:58-56:52 – Luke – Closing Credits

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
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