Unsettling Extremism

This episode distils and highlights the major takeaways of this podcast, namely belonging and peace.

In today’s episode, we talk about how the study of communication can help us understand and resist social inequity.   My guest is  Prof. Mohan Dutta, Dean's Chair Professor of Communication at Massey University. He is the Director of the Center for the Culture-Centered Approach to Research and Evaluation (CARE).  Prof. Dutta is the winner of the 2016 International Communication Association (ICA) Applied/Public Policy Communication Research Award, and the 2018 Outstanding Health Communication Scholar Award. He serves on the Advisory Panel of the World Health Organization (WHO) Cultural Contexts of Health (CCH) group. 

Mohan discusses how we can the CCA as a lens to better understand the current political environment, communication inequality, as well as communicative sovereignty. His take on disinformation, as a critical scholar myself, is one of the most thought-provoking I’ve heard 

Here are a few of Mohan’s  articles that relate to our discussion:

Dutta, MJ. (2023). Applied communication, witnessing, and decolonizing futures. Journal of Applied Communication Research. 51(6), 579-581

Elers, C., & Dutta, M. (2023). Academic-community solidarities in land occupation as an Indigenous claim to health: culturally centered solidarity through voice infrastructures. Frontiers in Communication. 8

Dutta, MJ. (2022). Communication as raced practice. Journal of Applied Communication Research. 50(3), 227-228

Dutta, MJ. (2022). De-centering the whiteness of applied communication research: some editorial strategies. Journal of Applied Communication Research. 50(2), 109-110

Māori Scholars on the role of disinformation (or myth-making) in colonisation 

Jackson, M. (2018). Colonization as myth-making: A case study in Aotearoa. In Being Indigenous (pp. 89-101). Routledge.

Jackson, M. (2020). Where to next? Decolonisation and stories in the land in Imagining Decolinsation Bridget Williams Books

Mikaere, A. (2013). Racism in contemporary Aotearoa: A Pākehā problem. Colonising Myths-Maori Realities: He Rukuruku Whakaaro, 92-126.

Miller, R. J., & Ruru, J. (2008). An indigenous lens into comparative law: the doctrine of discovery in the United States and New Zealand. W. Va. L. Rev., 111, 849.

Ngata, T. (2019). Kia Mau: resisting colonial fictions. Kia Mau Campaign.

Ritchie, J., Skerrett, M., & Rau, C. (2014). Kei tua i te awe māpara: Countercolonial unveiling of neoliberal discourses in Aotearoa New Zealand. International Review of Qualitative Research, 7(1), 111-129.

On this episode of Unsettling Extremism, we talk about the concept of conspiracy theories. People talk about conspiracy theories all the time, but have you ever slowed down to think about what conspiracy theories are? Are all conspiracy theories built equal? Is a belief in conspiracy theories inherently bad? I spoke with New Zealand-based philosopher, Dr M R Dentith, Associate Professor of philosophy at Beijing Normal University at Zuhai. M is a philosopher specialising in understanding the knowledge that underpins conspiracy theories, especially in a social context. In other words, they are an expert on the theory of conspiracy theory, or conspiracy theory theory. M has written and edited several books on conspiracy theories, the first of which is called the philosophy of conspiracy theories, published in 2014 see the show notes for more of their writing, but beyond their writing, M also has a podcast called The Podcaster's Guide to the Conspiracy. So if you like these kinds of conversations, you want to listen to those too. Here's a little spoiler alert. If you've come to disparage conspiracy theories and the people who believe in them, you'll be disappointed in this episode. But if you've come to learn more about conspiracy theories and what they're about, this is the episode for you.

Resources:

Books 

The Philosophy of Conspiracy Theories by M. Dentith (Palgrave Macmillan, 2014)

The Philosophy of Conspiracy Theories: Concepts, Methods and Theory (Routledge, 2024)

Articles 

Dentith, M. R. (2016). The Problem of Fake News. Public Reason, 8(1-2), 65.

Dentith, M. R. (2016). When inferring to a conspiracy might be the best explanation. Social Epistemology, 30(5-6), 572-591.

Website

https://www.mrxdentith.com/

Podcast 

https://zencastr.com/The-Podcaster-s-Guide-to-the-Conspiracy

This episode of Unsettling Extremism is a little bit different than what you're used to today, rather  than talking to a scholar about their research we are taking on a particular topic, great replacement conspiracy theory. As the research center charged with countering and preventing violent extremism, I wanted to take a closer look at how this conspiracy theory relates specifically to an Aotearoa context to do this. I had conversations with some of Aotearoa, leading experts on the topic. First, I spoke to Dr Max Soar, Research Fellow at He Whenua Tarikura, who has seen the way the replacement conspiracy theory shows up in Aotearoa through his research on how white supremacist dynamics show up in politics and science. Then, I had a group conversation with the esteemed scholars, Emeritus Professor of Religious Studies, Paul Morris of Victoria University and distinguished Emeritus Professor of Sociology, Paul Spoonley from Massey University, who share with us their understandings of replacement conspiracy theory and its local manifestations. 

References 

The Venomous Rhetorical Web of Far-Right Terrorists by Julia Kupper https://gnet-research.org/2022/10/17/the-venomous-rhetorical-web-of-far-right-terrorists/

Fear:  New Zealand's Hostile Underworld of Extremists by Byron Clark
https://www.harpercollins.co.nz/9781775542308/fear/

Histories of Hate: The Radical Right in Aotearoa New Zealand, Edited by
Matthew Cunningham, Marinus La Rooij and Paul Spoonley

Edelman Trust Barometer 2025 https://acumennz.com/acumen-edelman-trust-barometer/acumen-edelman-trust-barometer-2025/

The Great Replacement’: The Violent Consequences of Mainstreamed Extremism by Institute of Strategic Dialogue,  https://www.isdglobal.org/isd-publications/the-great-replacement-the-violent-consequences-of-mainstreamed-extremism/

The Jan. 6 Insurrectionists Aren’t Who You Think They Are by Robert Pape of Chicago Project on Security & Threats https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/06/trump-capitol-insurrection-january-6-insurrectionists-great-replacement-white-nationalism/

UK Islamophobic assaults surged by 73% in 2024, anti-hate crime charity reports by Aamna Mohdin and Chris Osuh in the Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/feb/19/uk-islamophobic-assaults-surged-by-73-in-2024-anti-hate-charity-reports

On this episode of Unsettling Extremism, we explore how literature can inform our understanding of white supremacy and extremism. I spoke with Dr. Tina Makereti, an award-winning writer who teaches creative writing at Victoria University of Wellington, Te Herenga Waka at the International Insitute of Modern Letters.

Learn more about Tina's book The Mires, here. https://ultimopress.com.au/products/the-mires

References:

Clark, B. (2023). Fear: The must-read gripping new book about New Zealand's hostile underworld of extremists. HarperCollins New Zealand.

Ebner, J. (2021). Going dark: The secret social lives of extremists. Bloomsbury Publishing.

Lavin, T. (2020). Culture warlords: My journey into the dark web of white supremacy. Legacy Lit.

Marsh, S. T. (2024, December 9). Arts don’t just decorate knowledge, they deepen it. Newsroom https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/12/09/arts-dont-just-decorate-knowledge-they-deepen-it/

Tecun, A., Lopesi, L., & Sankar, A. (Eds.). (2022). Towards a Grammar of Race: In Aotearoa New Zealand. Bridget Williams Books.

Today our guest Byron Clark, an independent researcher and author on New Zealand’s far-right extremist movements. His book, Fear, helps us shows some of the ideological underpinnings of influencers and groups in the lead-up to the Occupation of Parliament in 2022. Byron uses his insight as a Pakeha man, the target demographic of these far-right groups, to help us, understand, untangle, and confront the ideologies and theories that support these movements. I have a lot of respect fo Byron, not just as a researcher, but as a human because he is far from a keyboard warrior, he has paid a personal price for his research. By speaking out he has become the target of intimidation, harassment, and threats from the very groups he studies. And yet, he continues to speak up and speak out.

Resources
Fear:  New Zealand's Hostile Underworld of Extremists by Byron Clark
https://www.harpercollins.co.nz/9781775542308/fear/

Byron's Newsletter, Feijoa Dispatch, is a collection of his work and writing. https://www.feijoadispatch.nz/

Histories of Hate: The Radical Right in Aotearoa New Zealand, Edited by
Matthew Cunningham, Marinus La Rooij and Paul Spoonley

The definition of the Great Replacement Theory was in the chapter Identitarianism  and the Alt-Right: A New Phase of Alt-Right Politics in Aotearoa New Zealand, by Paul Spoonley and Paul Morris, pg. 308.

In this episode our guest is Distinguished Professor Paul Spoonley.  He is a highly regarded sociologist with expertise in the areas of demography, immigration, diversity, and political and ideological extremism. You might already know Paul because he is regularly asked to comment on social issues in the media. In our interview, we discussed the evolution of the radical right in New Zealand, the rise of populism and his ideas on how we can improve social cohesion.

Here are some resources Paul talked about in the episode:

Edelman Trust Barometer
https://www.edelman.com/trust/2023/trust-barometer

Histories of Hate
Matthew Cunningham, Marinus La Rooij and Paul Spoonley (eds)
https://www.otago.ac.nz/press/books/histories-of-hate

Nga Tangata Oho Mairangi
https://communityresearch.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/formidable/8/Southland-Region-Report-Final-with-Logo-RRN-5-2017-1.pdf

Hochschild, A. R. (2018). Strangers in their own land: Anger and mourning on the American right. The New Press.

Populism - A Global Advisor Survey 2024 (NZ Edition)

https://www.ipsos.com/en-nz/populism-global-advisor-survey-2024-nz-edition

In this episode I spoke with Joanna Kidman, Professor of Māori Education at Victoria University of Wellington and Director of He Whenua Taurikura. She has a long and esteemed career as a sociologist researching the impact of the impact of institutional and systemic racism on Māori communities, including her Marsden-funded project looking at the impact of the New Zealand Wars on Māori communities and our society as a whole. Joanna was recently selected as a Fellow of the Royal Society for distinction in her research and leadership in her field. Our conversation ranged from her background, to the ways her research looks at the fractures in society, to what she has learned about peace.  Joanna brings her sociological training and Māori worldviews to the area of extremism and counterterrorism research. 

If you would like to learn more about Joanna's research, check out the following resources: 

https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/joanna-kidman-standing-for-peace-in-an-angry-world/

https://www.bwb.co.nz/books/fragments-from-a-contested-past

 In this episode of Unsettling Extremism I spoke with Dr. Mahdis Azarmandi, Senior Lecturer the School of Educational studies and Leadership at the University of Canterbury. Beyond her work in education, she also has expertise in Political science and Peace and Conflict Studies.  We talked about the construction of the concept of peace, different forms of violence, and how terms like terrorism and extremism can be problematic.

If you would like to read some of Mahdis's work, some selected works are below:

Azarmandi, M. (2018). The racial silence within peace studies. Peace Review, 30(1), 69-77.

Azarmandi, M. (2021). Freedom from discrimination: on the coloniality of positive peace. In The Palgrave handbook of positive peace (pp. 611-621). Singapore: Springer Singapore.

Azarmandi, M. (2023). Disturbing a Discipline: Towards Pluriversal Peace and Conflict Studies. Journal of Intervention and Statebuilding, 1-15.

Aikman, P. J., & Azarmandi, M. (2023). Koro and the Statue: Disrupting Colonial Amnesia and White Settler Sovereignty in Aotearoa New Zealand. In The Palgrave Handbook on Rethinking Colonial Commemorations (pp. 33-51). Cham: Springer International Publishing.

Here is a list of of some of the scholars/works Mahdis discussed in this episode:

Debbie Bargallie https://experts.griffith.edu.au/19242-debbie-bargallie/publications

Martin Luther King Jr. https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html

Alana Lentin https://www.alanalentin.net/books/racism-book/

Nelson Maldonado -Torres https://caribbeanstudiesassociation.org/docs/Maldonado-Torres_Outline_Ten_Theses-10.23.16.pdf

Charles Mills https://books.google.co.nz/books/about/The_Racial_Contract.html?id=LPbBdyxGNhQC&redir_esc=y

In this episode I spoke with Dr. Sara Salman, Senior Lecturer at Victoria University of Wellington in Criminology and Scholar in Residence at He Whenua Taurikura. We talked about how social neglect and injustice can negatively affect our social relationships, responses different groups of people had to New Zealand's Covid-19 policies, and how Māori led responses to disaster show us an alternative way help those in need. If you are interested in learning more about what Sara discussed in this interview, see the resources below. 

Fitzmaurice, L., & Bargh, M. (2021). Stepping up: COVID-19 checkpoints and rangatiratanga. Huia Publishers.

Hamilton, K. (2023) Maia Whakatakaia - A working paper on Māori recovery and responses for Cyclone Gabrielle.

Salman, S. (2023) Playing in the Team of Five Million: Conformity and Nonconformity to the New Zealand Covid-19 Pandemic Response. Crit Crim 31, 343–361. https://doi.org/10.1007/s10612-023-09707-7

Salman, S. (2023). The Shaming State. NYU Press.

Salman, S. (23 Feb 2024). Shaming the poor doesn’t work. It’s also cruel. Newsroom.