Unspoken Grief

In the season 2 finale of Unspoken Grief, hosts Michael Vinton and Tina Chevalier welcome three first-time guests: spouses/partners Keith (Tina’s husband), Tony Spatafora (Michael’s husband), and April Schmitt. The guests share how they learned of the murder-suicide losses in their families, what they previously understood about suicide and murder-suicide, and what surprised them afterward, including others’ reactions, the amount of logistical and emotional work, and the impact on their partners. They discuss traumatic grief versus grief, coping through support, therapy, and community, navigating feelings toward the person who caused harm, and the importance of self-care, talking openly, and saying loved ones’ names. The episode closes with each guest sharing what gives them hope and information about resources and the podcast’s nonprofit work.

988 Lifeline number: https://988lifeline.org/ 

At the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, we understand that life's challenges can sometimes be complex. Whether you're facing mental health struggles, emotional distress, alcohol or drug use concerns, or just need someone to talk to, our caring counselors are here for you. You are not alone.

Didi Hirsch Mental Services: didihirsch.org

Crisis Text Line

Text HOME to 741741 Free, 24/7 Mental Health Support 

April Schmitt                                                 

Email:                [email protected]

Tony Spatafora                                     

Email:                [email protected]

Michael Vinton

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.michaelvinton.com 

                 http://www.impactedsurvivors.org

Podcast:    Unspoken Grief 

IG:            @therealmichaelvinton

FB:            Michael Vinton

Linkedin:   m/ichael-vinton-6702a373

IDMB:                Michael Vinton (III)

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Tina Chevalier

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.impactedsurvivors.org 

Podcast:   Unspoken Grief

IG:            @impactedsurvivorsofms

FB:            Facebook

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Hosts Michael Vinton and Tina Chevalier welcome psychiatrist Dr. Janine Roach to discuss bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, psychosis, and severe mental illness in the context of grief after murder-suicide, emphasizing “seeking understanding without seeking blame” and avoiding posthumous diagnosis or stigmatizing violence. Dr. Roach explains common misconceptions, including that bipolar disorder is not moment-to-moment moodiness but cyclical episodes, and outlines bipolar I vs. bipolar II, mania/hypomania, depression, euthymia, and how symptoms can go undiagnosed for years. She describes schizophrenia and paranoid schizophrenia, delusions, hallucinations, disorganized thinking, negative symptoms, and how psychosis can occur in mania or depression. The conversation covers family challenges, legal limits to involuntary care, boundary-setting, support resources like NAMI Family-to-Family, and hope from reduced stigma and increased help-seeking.

988 Lifeline number: https://988lifeline.org/ 

At the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, we understand that life's challenges can sometimes be complex. Whether you're facing mental health struggles, emotional distress, alcohol or drug use concerns, or just need someone to talk to, our caring counselors are here for you. You are not alone.

Didi Hirsch Mental Services: didihirsch.org

Crisis Text Line

Text HOME to 741741 Free, 24/7 Mental Health Support 

Dr. Janine Roach 

Email: [email protected]

NAMI _https://www.nami.org/programs/nami-family-to-family/

Michael Vinton

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.michaelvinton.com 

                 http://www.impactedsurvivors.org

Podcast:    Unspoken Grief 

IG:            @therealmichaelvinton

FB:            Michael Vinton

Linkedin:   m/ichael-vinton-6702a373

IDMB:                Michael Vinton (III)

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Tina Chevalier

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.impactedsurvivors.org 

Podcast:   Unspoken Grief

IG:            @impactedsurvivorsofms

FB:            Facebook

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In this episode of the Unspoken Grief podcast, hosts Michael Vinton and Tina Chevalier talk with Eric Kussin, founder of Same Here Global and co-host of the podcast We’re All a Little Crazy, about mental health advocacy, grief, and the harm of simplified narratives. Eric shares his background in professional sports leadership, his debilitating mental health crisis, extensive medication trials, TMS, inpatient hospitalization, and ECT, and how integrative therapy helped him reframe his experience as accumulated chronic stress and trauma. He discusses his brother’s long medical ordeals, the “Five in Five” message that everyone has mental health, concerns about nonprofit and media messaging, and why deaths of despair should be discussed with nuance to support prevention. Eric explains the Same Here hand sign origins, previews his book Diagnosis (out around September), and describes hope through ongoing healing and somatic trauma release

988 Lifeline number: https://988lifeline.org/ 

At the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, we understand that life's challenges can sometimes be complex. Whether you're facing mental health struggles, emotional distress, alcohol or drug use concerns, or just need someone to talk to, our caring counselors are here for you. You are not alone.

Didi Hirsch Mental Services: didihirsch.org

Crisis Text Line

Text HOME to 741741 Free, 24/7 Mental Health Support 

Eric Kussin 

Email:       [email protected]

Website:   https://samehereglobal.org/

Instagram: @samehere_global

Facebook: @samehere_global

LinkedIn:  @samehere_global

Podcast:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/were-all-a-little-crazy/id1556305271

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@samehere_global

Michael Vinton

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.michaelvinton.com 

                 http://www.impactedsurvivors.org

Podcast:    Unspoken Grief 

IG:            @therealmichaelvinton

FB:            Michael Vinton

Linkedin:   m/ichael-vinton-6702a373

IDMB:                Michael Vinton (III)

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Tina Chevalier

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.impactedsurvivors.org 

Podcast:   Unspoken Grief

IG:            @impactedsurvivorsofms

FB:            Facebook

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Hosts Michael Vinton and Tina Chevalier welcome “Anonymous Daughter”, who lost her parents at 13 to a murder-suicide and originally told her story in a 2017 online essay, “I’m Finally Ready to Talk About How My Parents Died.” She describes loving memories of both parents and how the reality defies simple assumptions, then reflects on how her perspective has changed over nearly a decade, including becoming less dependent on others’ understanding and becoming a mother, which has raised questions about how to share this family history with her child in an age-appropriate way. She discusses years of secrecy, compartmentalization, and reluctance to be vulnerable, the influence of family privacy and her own personality, the value of her siblings as shared witnesses, and how she has built a fulfilling life while continuing to evolve in grief and hope

Guest's Buzzfeed Article:

BuzzFeed “Anonymous Daughter”

988 Lifeline number: https://988lifeline.org/ 

At the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, we understand that life's challenges can sometimes be complex. Whether you're facing mental health struggles, emotional distress, alcohol or drug use concerns, or just need someone to talk to, our caring counselors are here for you. You are not alone.

Didi Hirsch Mental Services: didihirsch.org

Crisis Text Line

Text HOME to 741741 Free, 24/7 Mental Health Support 

Michael Vinton

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.michaelvinton.com 

                 http://www.impactedsurvivors.org

Podcast:    Unspoken Grief 

IG:            @therealmichaelvinton

FB:            Michael Vinton

Linkedin:   m/ichael-vinton-6702a373

IDMB:                Michael Vinton (III)

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Tina Chevalier

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.impactedsurvivors.org 

Podcast:   Unspoken Grief

IG:            @impactedsurvivorsofms

FB:            Facebook

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Unspoken Grief hosts Michael Vinton and Tina Chevalier welcome Nina Rodriguez, founder and executive producer of the award-winning podcast Grief and Light, to discuss grief as a lived experience deserving dignity, depth, and community. Nina shares how her brother Joseph died from fentanyl poisoning in 2019, the traumatic aftermath, and the harmful things people said that fueled her mission to create an anonymous grief account that grew into her platform. She explains the physical and emotional impacts of grief, including learning about broken heart syndrome, and explores “living in the and,” holding joy and sorrow together without timelines. The episode highlights sibling loss as disenfranchised grief, identity shifts after loss, continued bonds, boundaries in sharing stories, and practical coping like keeping a “Joseph journal,” finding supportive communities, and extending grace to others.

988 Lifeline number: https://988lifeline.org/ 

At the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, we understand that life's challenges can sometimes be complex. Whether you're facing mental health struggles, emotional distress, alcohol or drug use concerns, or just need someone to talk to, our caring counselors are here for you. You are not alone.

Didi Hirsch Mental Services: didihirsch.org

Crisis Text Line

Text HOME to 741741 Free, 24/7 Mental Health Support 

Nina Rodriguez       

Email:        [email protected]

Website:    griefandlight.com

Instagram:         @griefandlight

@itsnrodriguez

Podcast:   Grief and Light

YouTube:  @griefandlight

Michael Vinton

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.michaelvinton.com 

                 http://www.impactedsurvivors.org

Podcast:    Unspoken Grief 

IG:            @therealmichaelvinton

FB:            Michael Vinton

Linkedin:   m/ichael-vinton-6702a373

IDMB:                Michael Vinton (III)

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Tina Chevalier

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.impactedsurvivors.org 

Podcast:   Unspoken Grief

IG:            @impactedsurvivorsofms

FB:            Facebook

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In this Unspoken Grief episode, hosts Michael Vinton and Tina Chevalier, speak with survivor Krista Schenck, who lost both parents, Mark and Bonnie, in a July 2021 murder-suicide in which her father was the perpetrator. Krista shares what it has meant to live in the aftermath, including shock, a roller coaster of grief, anger, dark humor as coping, and the challenge of returning to work and facing awkward interactions. She describes friends who rotated staying overnight, support during her eulogy, and how community support can drop off after the first weeks, prompting her to seek groups, counseling, and medication. Krista discusses identity shifts, struggling with holidays, rebuilding routines, using music and planned events to create “micro joys,” navigating estate issues and the slayer clause, and finding hope in good, caring people.

988 Lifeline number: https://988lifeline.org/ 

At the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, we understand that life's challenges can sometimes be complex. Whether you're facing mental health struggles, emotional distress, alcohol or drug use concerns, or just need someone to talk to, our caring counselors are here for you. You are not alone.

Didi Hirsch Mental Services: didihirsch.org

Crisis Text Line

Text HOME to 741741 Free, 24/7 Mental Health Support 

  Krista Schenck                    

Instagram:ig/nebulana1

Michael Vinton

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.michaelvinton.com 

                 http://www.impactedsurvivors.org

Podcast:    Unspoken Grief 

IG:            @therealmichaelvinton

FB:            Michael Vinton

Linkedin:   m/ichael-vinton-6702a373

IDMB:                Michael Vinton (III)

Headshot: Headshot 1

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Tina Chevalier

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.impactedsurvivors.org 

Podcast:   Unspoken Grief

IG:            @impactedsurvivorsofms

FB:            Facebook

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Unspoken Grief hosts Michael Vinton and Tina Chevalier welcome Dr. Denise Dailey, a licensed clinical psychologist and founder of Our Daily Bread, LLC, to discuss insights from their APA Division 19 Society for Military Psychology symposium presentation, “Unseen Battlefields,” exploring the intersection of military-related violence and murder-suicide and the overlooked impact on families and communities. Dr. Dailey shares how her family’s multigenerational military service shaped her understanding that trauma doesn’t stay overseas, describes post-deployment stress, injury, and family-system effects, and explains overlaps among isolation, identity collapse, burdensomeness, and moral injury. The conversation examines limitations in data and public narratives about perpetrators, warning signs families can take seriously, the importance of curiosity and presence, and practical steps like asking direct questions and using 988 for guidance, while also addressing provider burnout, hope through connection, and survivor community support

988 Lifeline number: https://988lifeline.org/ 

At the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, we understand that life's challenges can sometimes be complex. Whether you're facing mental health struggles, emotional distress, alcohol or drug use concerns, or just need someone to talk to, our caring counselors are here for you. You are not alone.

Didi Hirsch Mental Services: didihirsch.org

Crisis Text Line

Text HOME to 741741 Free, 24/7 Mental Health Support 

  Dr. Denise Dailey                        

Email: [email protected]

Website: www.ourdaileybread.com and  Dailey, Denise | Faculty

Profile | Adler University

Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/drdaileyptsd

Causes: (Clinical

and Research Interest: PTSD Assessment and Treatment, Health Psychology,

Military Clinical Psychology, Chronic Pain, Insomnia, Risk Assessment and

Suicide Prevention )

Michael Vinton

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.michaelvinton.com 

                 http://www.impactedsurvivors.org

Podcast:    Unspoken Grief 

IG:            @therealmichaelvinton

FB:            Michael Vinton

Linkedin:   m/ichael-vinton-6702a373

IDMB:                Michael Vinton (III)

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Tina Chevalier

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.impactedsurvivors.org 

Podcast:   Unspoken Grief

IG:            @impactedsurvivorsofms

FB:            Facebook

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In this episode of Unspoken Grief, hosts Michael Vinton and Tina Chevalier welcome survivor and advocate ChaRon Sattler-LeBlanc, who lost her cousin Julie (23) and Julie’s daughter Jacqui (5) in July 1990. ChaRon describes learning the news while in college, the isolation and shame of grieving before online communities or public language for murder-suicide loss, and the complex family dynamics shaped by Korean heritage, arranged marriage, domestic violence, and separation. She shares how trauma resurfaced during a later campus incident involving a firearm and how limited counseling support was in the 1990s. ChaRon discusses long-term impacts, secondary losses, and how advocacy (including Moms Demand Action), civic work, and community connection help her heal while emphasizing boundaries, self-care, and loving people in their wholeness, including families of perpetrators

988 Lifeline number: https://988lifeline.org/ 

At the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, we understand that life's challenges can sometimes be complex. Whether you're facing mental health struggles, emotional distress, alcohol or drug use concerns, or just need someone to talk to, our caring counselors are here for you. You are not alone.

Didi Hirsch Mental Services: didihirsch.org

Crisis Text Line

Text HOME to 741741 Free, 24/7 Mental Health Support 

ChaRon Sattler-Leblanc

Email:       [email protected]

Website:Cha Ron Votes

Causes: A Longing for Yesteryear

MomsDemandAction

Eoisode Resource Section

                    Who Needs God 

                   When Bad Things Happen to Good People 

                    Please Call Me by My True Names

Michael Vinton

Email:               [email protected] 

Website:   www.michaelvinton.com 

                 http://www.impactedsurvivors.org

Podcast:   Unspoken Grief 

IG:           @therealmichaelvinton

FB:           Michael Vinton

Linkedin:  m/ichael-vinton-6702a373

IDMB:               Michael Vinton (III)

Headshot: Headshot 1

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Tina Chevalier

Email:               [email protected] 

Website:   www.impactedsurvivors.org 

Podcast:   Unspoken Grief

IG:           @impactedsurvivorsofms

FB:           Facebook

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In this episode of Unspoken Grief, hosts Michael Vinton and Tina Chevalier talk about their survivor-led nonprofit community, ISMS (Impacted Survivors of Murder Suicide), which offers peer support spaces, awareness, and advocacy, especially for families of the person who caused harm. Michael and Tina share their experiences losing their loved ones five years ago, describing shock, sleeplessness, confusion, stigma, and the difficulty of grieving someone who also caused harm, while emphasizing that loved ones are “more than their final act.” They discuss ripple effects on friends, neighbors, witnesses, and first responders, the long journey after headlines fade, practical aftermath issues, and concerns about sensationalized media language and oversimplified explanations. They highlight hope found through community, expand support calls, and invite listeners to access resources at impactedsurvivors.org

988 Lifeline number: https://988lifeline.org/ 

At the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, we understand that life's challenges can sometimes be complex. Whether you're facing mental health struggles, emotional distress, alcohol or drug use concerns, or just need someone to talk to, our caring counselors are here for you. You are not alone.

Didi Hirsch Mental Services: didihirsch.org

Crisis Text Line

Text HOME to 741741 Free, 24/7 Mental Health Support 

Michael Vinton

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.michaelvinton.com 

                 http://www.impactedsurvivors.org

Podcast:    Unspoken Grief 

IG:            @therealmichaelvinton

FB:            Michael Vinton

Linkedin:   m/ichael-vinton-6702a373

IDMB:                Michael Vinton (III)

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Tina Chevalier

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.impactedsurvivors.org 

Podcast:   Unspoken Grief

IG:            @impactedsurvivorsofms

FB:            Facebook

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In this episode of Unspoken Grief, hosts Michael Vinton and Tina Chevalier welcome psychologist and researcher Dr. Thomas Joiner, whose work is widely cited in survivor communities and who authored The Perversion of Virtue, a book the hosts frequently reference in presentations about murder-suicide. Joiner explains how his research led him to conclude most murder-suicides are planned and rooted in a distorted, “virtuous” rationale tied to four perverted virtues—justice, mercy, duty, and glory—illustrating examples including Columbine and the influence of Timothy McVeigh. The group discusses stigma faced by survivors, language challenges around “perpetrator,” why families may not see their loved one as suicidal, the value of psychological autopsies, and how suicide prevention strategies like means safety and effective CBT may also prevent murder-suicide.

988 Lifeline number: https://988lifeline.org/ 

At the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, we understand that life's challenges can sometimes be complex. Whether you're facing mental health struggles, emotional distress, alcohol or drug use concerns, or just need someone to talk to, our caring counselors are here for you. You are not alone.

Didi Hirsch Mental Services: didihirsch.org

Crisis Text Line

Text HOME to 741741 Free, 24/7 Mental Health Support 

Dr Thomas Joiner:

Email:                [email protected]

Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0199334552?ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_WTDG24DTBD8N6ZD1RAEB&bestFormat=true

Website: Thomas Joiner | Department of Psychology

Georgia Commission on Family Violence

Michael Vinton

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.michaelvinton.com 

                 http://www.impactedsurvivors.org

Podcast:    Unspoken Grief 

IG:            @therealmichaelvinton

FB:            Michael Vinton

Linkedin:   m/ichael-vinton-6702a373

IDMB:                Michael Vinton (III)

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Tina Chevalier

Email:                [email protected] 

Website:    www.impactedsurvivors.org 

Podcast:   Unspoken Grief

IG:            @impactedsurvivorsofms

FB:            Facebook

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