“Hamas itself is a consequence of something else. The question is, what is that something else? The something else is the Israeli occupation, the Israeli siege, the Israeli apartheid, the oppression, the social inequality, the torment that the Palestinian people have been experiencing for all of these decades, resulting in Hamas,” journalist Ramzy Baroud tells Esty Dinur. “In other words, if you remove Hamas from the equation in right now, nothing will change in the fundamental relationship between the Israelis and the Palestinians… Hamas is the outcome of the problem.”

We speak first with Baroud about the current state of Israel’s war on Gaza. Then National Lawyers Guild President, Suzanne Adely joins us to discuss the South African case accusing Israel of genocide at the International Court of Justice.

Ramzy Baroud is a US-Palestinian journalist, media consultant, an author, internationally-syndicated columnist, Editor of Palestine Chronicle.

Suzanne Adely is National Lawyers Guild International Committee president. She is a founder of the Middle East, North Africa Labor Solidarity Network in the U.S.

Photo by Ash Hayes on Unsplash

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