The Potomac River connects millions across four states and D.C. Known as "the Nation's River", it greatly influenced American history and George Washington's life. Today, the park’s Potomac River Beach is a popular destination at his birthplace, highlighting the importance of protecting the river's health for recreation and wildlife. In this episode, we welcome Michael Nardolilli, Executive Director of the Interstate Commission on the Potomac River Basin, to discuss the river we share.
Dustin Baker Welcome to this episode of Upon This Land: History, Mystery, and Monuments. I'm here with Jonathan Malriat, and we have a special guest, Mike Nardolilli, who's the executive director of the Interstate Commission on the Potomac River Basin. George Washington Birthplace is a 551 acre park with a two mile shoreline on the Potomac River. And we would estimate that almost half or more than that of all our visitors come here, just to enjoy the beach on the Potomac River. So we're very excited to have, Mike with us today. So, Mike, could you please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about the Interstate Commission on the Potomac River Basin?
Mike Nardolilli I'll be happy to do so. I am Mike Nardolilli. I'm the executive director of the Interstate Commission on the Potomac River Basin. I've been in this position for about five and a half years now. And, I supervise a staff of 18, and report to a commission that is appointed by the jurisdictions in the basin. So the ICPRB was, it was created pursuant to a congressionally approved compact, between the five jurisdictions in the Potomac River basin: Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland, the DC, and Pennsylvania. Most people don't realize that the 10% of the basin is actually located in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. The federal government participates, by naming commissioners as well, but it is not a signatory, to the compact itself. And so the compact created, well, what it was an advisory committee...commission. The advisory commission, has no regulatory authority. But we have been very significant since our founding in 1940 to, effectuate positive change on the river, mainly because of our reputation of being scientists and, objective, recommendations, have been adopted by the local jurisdictions.
Dustin Baker And, why was the commission created all those years ago?
Mike Nardolilli By the time of the 1930s, the once beautiful and bountiful Potomac River, had been turned into an open sewer. And it was killing aquatic species, and driving away residents, from, enjoying their, their waterway. And so Congress, actually then, started initiating discussions among the basin jurisdictions, recognizing that the, whatever solution came up, with had to be, supported by the five jurisdictions, no one jurisdiction could do it itself. DC could not do it alone. It needed all of the partners in the basin to do so. So they created this, interstate commission on the Potomac River basin. And, the charter is that our purpose is for regulating, controlling, preventing or otherwise rendering unobjectionable and harmless the pollution of the waters of the Potomac draining area, from sewage and industrial and other wastes. So that was that was our original charter. Now, in a major drought in 1966, led the compact to be amended. To include another purpose, which was, in 1970, to include cooperative water supply and other natural resources issues. And then as a result of that, in 1979, ICPRB formed its section on cooperative water supply operations on the Potomac, also known as co-op, and that would serve as a technical center on the water resources in the Potomac Basin. Basically to make sure, that, especially during periods of drought, that the, drinking water suppliers in the DC area did not drink the water, drink the, River dry, and to allow for a 100 million gallon flow by at Little Falls. And that requirement is designed to, make sure that the aquatic species in the lower Potomac, including the area near you folks and also the bay, received an adequate supply of fresh water coming down, from the basin. And so we wanted to make sure that they didn't drink the river dry. And you have this flow by at Little Falls.
Jonathan Malriat So you mentioned the drought in 1966 being this watershed moment that led to that addition of protecting water supply. Was there in particular a watershed moment or a specific event that led to the creation of the Interstate Commission in the 1940s?
Mike Nardolilli A number of, folks in Congress, had actually done, like, as field work and gone out on the river. There were a number of photographs that are out there in the 1930s of, influential Congress people holding their nose as they stood along the Potomac River. So I don't think it was any one, one event, but it was, a series of visits by Congress to the Potomac that recognized that they needed to do something about it.
Jonathan Malriat Kind of shifting gears here, since it seems like we can really break down the goals of this commission into a couple key parts. But the big key component of it is the Potomac River. So you mentioned that your jurisdictions included those previously stated ones, but what... Can you describe the Potomac River? What it it? where it is? Because it might be something that people might not immediately know off the top of their head.
Mike Nardolilli Certainly, the Potomac River is located in the, Mid-Atlantic region of the East Coast of the United States. The Potomac River drains an area roughly the size of Switzerland. About 15,000mi². It, and the basin is shaped like a horse head. The river flows from, Stanton, Virginia in the west. To the, point, what’s called Point Lookout in Maryland in the east. But it extends northward all the way up to Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, and then also westward to include West Virginia, and an area called the Fairfax Stone. So it's a very broad, watershed, and a very important watershed on the East Coast.
Dustin Baker So a lot of our listeners are interested in history and, you know, this is a pretty large question, but can you tell us a little bit about the history of the Potomac River? And, by that, I mean not just human history, but, geologic and natural history of it.
Mike Nardolilli Oh, sure. The, the Potomac, it's difficult to tell exactly how old it is, but some folks actually believe it's older than the Appalachian Mountains. In other words, it began flowing before the mountains were pushed up by continental drift, and the river continued to carve its valley all during that time, and so if you look at a map of the United States, in the northeast especially, you see that most rivers run north and south. Like if you take the Hudson, for example. Right. But the, Potomac actually runs, west to east. And that's, a defining characteristic. Also the Potomac, there are portions of the Potomac, especially what's called a North Branch, which are almost sitting on bedrock. And other parts are alluvial plains, such as the Shenandoah, the Monocacy, and the other tributaries that flow into the Potomac. So it has a, a varied, geology. It was settled, of course, by the Native Americans, who lived in the valley for, for many years before European contact. And they they settled in a variety of areas, and, and left their names on the landscape, such as the Anacostia River is, is named after, the, the Native American tribe. And then also, other places along the Potomac also bear those names. And so when the, the English, settlers came, after John Smith. John Smith went up the Potomac and got as far as Great... as Little Falls, which is really where DC is now. And so, you know, after after he made that venture, settlement started to pop up along the Potomac River. And, what I like to say is that the Potomac helped to create the United States. And what I mean by that is that there was a dispute between Maryland and Virginia regarding trade and tariffs on the river. In those days, each state was almost like a little country. And so they charge tariffs. If you wanted to bring goods from Maryland into Virginia and, the powers that be recognize that that that's really silly. And so let's try to agree on, on, on not charging, tariffs and also agreeing to open trade on the Potomac and this led to the, the Mount Vernon Act of 1785, that, you know, although it would settle the dispute between Maryland, Virginia, the people there recognized the need for the involvement of other states, particularly Pennsylvania. Because, you know, there's, Susquehanna, for example, provides. 50% of the water into the Chesapeake Bay. And so they wanted to bring Pennsylvania to it. And so they actually then met in Annapolis for a follow up, convention to the, the Compact of 1785. And at that meeting, it was decided that, well, you really do need to bring in all the states, to discuss all of these issues, all the problems of the Articles of Confederation. And so let's have a constitutional convention in Philadelphia. And that led to, of course, the Constitution of the United States. And so that was very, and you, you know, important legacy of the Potomac River, to the entire country. Now, as the settled settlers moved west, the nation was in danger of being divided, not north and south, but east and west. Because the settlers who crossed the mountains and were then using the Ohio to transport their goods down, to, down the Mississippi and then down to New Orleans, were... were really under the, the danger of falling under the control of, nations like Spain, France and England. But actually, it was George Washington's vision, of developing east-west communications across the mountains to try to pin the western part of the country to the east coast rather than have them fall under the, dominion of, foreign powers. And so that's why his great vision was the creation of the C&O canal, which would then move west from Georgetown, here in DC, all the way out to, you know, and joining with the Ohio at Pittsburgh. Now, the C&O Canal never made it to, Pittsburgh, but it did go as far as Cumberland. And really, served that purpose of linking together east and west. It was then supplanted by the B&O railroad, which also followed the Potomac River uut that way and, also linked east and west. And so, George Washington's vision was accomplished that the, the, the settlers over the mountains, as it were, were tied to the East Coast. And so the nation can then grow all together. Now, four American presidents were born in the Potomac River watershed, of course. Of course you folks down in Colonial Beach, George Washington was born in the Potomac River watershed, as was his, nearby neighbor of James Monroe, also from Colonial Beach. But two other presidents also were born in the Potomac River watershed. James Buchanan, was born in Oak Grove, Pennsylvania, which is part of the watershed. And also Woodrow Wilson, who was born in Staunton, Virginia in the Potomac River watershed. Potomac played an important role in the American Civil War. The boundary between really north and south. You have John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry, West Virginia. The battle of Manassas in Virginia, the Battle of Antietam in Maryland, the Battle of Gettysburg in Pennsylvania, and the assassination of Abraham Lincoln in DC. All of those events took place within the Potomac River basin. So it really has a great, history and a legacy to to the nation and to, to to all of us, who are Americans.
Jonathan Malriat So that's a great overview of the history of the Potomac, and both cultural and a bit to the natural. I know the Interstate Commission one of the big things you also look at is the science of it. So from a conservation and even restoration viewpoint, what makes the Potomac different from other basins or even other rivers.
Mike Nardolilli Oh the Potomac, we, we like to call it the Nation's river because it, on its shores is the nation's capital of, Washington, D.C.. But then the river itself provides drinking water to the Washington, DC area. And so the the Washington, DC and Arlington, Virginia are 100% dependent on water from the Potomac River. I’ll say it again, 100% dependent. And we only have, reservoir capacity, for a one day supply of water or so, if you can imagine that, if something happened to the Potomac River, if it was contaminated by, by, by accident or even by, a deliberate means, that would shut off water to, the nation's capital, to institutions such as, the, Department of Homeland Security, the Congress, the White House, and across the river in Arlington, the same thing. It attaches to that that would be the, Pentagon. So you have all of these institutions that are dependent on water from the Potomac River. And when I say that it's just, drinking water. I really, should expand that, because if you actually have to shut off the intakes, on the Potomac River because you say a contamination event from oil or something like that. You also lose fire protection because, they have to shut down the intakes and there's no water pressure, for the hydrants. And so you don't have any any method of controlling fires in the District of Columbia. And then also it shuts down, hygiene. And so you don't have the hospitals can't operate, for example. And so it's much worse than Covid is, that the federal workforce simply just can't go home, at work remotely because, their homes and the surrounding jurisdictions of, so the suburbs would also be affected, maybe not within one day, but certainly for a couple of days of being, cut off from the supply of water there. So you have a whole system that's dependent on the Potomac River for the operation of the federal government.
Dustin Baker Now, so many people rely on this river. But the river obviously really shapes the natural world as well. Do you have a sense of how much of the shoreline of the Potomac is still, to this day, undeveloped?
Mike Nardolilli Yeah, that's a very hard question to, to answer. We have calculated the tidal, side of the Potomac, in Virginia and 55% of the shoreline of the tidal Potomac, which goes all the way up to Little Falls, at least in the DC area, is undeveloped. And we we suspect that that that number probably is true on the other side of the river in Maryland as well, because of the similarity of, of, of land use, it becomes much, much more difficult when you go upstream, into the freshwater part of the Potomac River, because then you get, not only the main stem of the river itself, but then all the tributaries, such as the Monocacy, the Shenandoah, and becomes much more hard, it's harder to calculate. So I don't have any hard numbers, for you for that. But that's that's what we have and its what I have related before.
Jonathan Malriat What are some of the other challenges that the Interstate Commission and even the Potomac River basin is facing? Are there any other specific ones that you're preparing for or trying to identify?
Mike Nardolilli Yes. We, we divide our job really into two areas, water quality, and water quantity. So we've already talked about the water quantity side of the ledger. The water quality side is that we are actively working to address, some of the major problems on the Potomac, such as salt use. You know, salt in the Potomac is very bad. Has been in the, in the freshwater portions of the Potomac, particularly because you have a lot of freshwater aquatic species that, cannot survive, high salt content. And so that that's a lot, what we are trying to do is get people to use less salt when it, when it, when there is a icing or a snow event. First to shovel it, and then to skip or use only like a, a coffee cup full of salt on your driveway or your sidewalk. And finally to, sweep it off after the, the event happens and reuse it. So we are hoping that people will, modify their salt use so that, there's less salt going into the river. The second thing we're working on is to really try to improve water quality, by natural methods. And that is, freshwater mussels serve the same role that, oysters do in the bay. Freshwater mussels, actually serve as filters for, for freshwater. And so the problem is, is they can't get upstream right now because of dams four and five on the Potomac. And so we have actually secured funds to build, eel ladders, to allow the eels to move upstream, both in the, to go past dam four and then five. And why why eels? Well, eels are the transport method for the mussels. The mussels? I actually, put their larva on to the gills of the eels and the eels actually transport them upstream. So if we can, get these eel ladders constructed, we should actually have a cleaner river as a result. And in your neck of the woods, and throughout the Potomac, really, we're working on trying to identify the causes of harmful algal blooms. And then also to, to rectify them so that they don't interfere with the public enjoyment of the river because, once, once you have a, a harmful algal bloom, for example, it'll it'll, you know, it really does cut down recreational uses of the river and, really does, make it a, make an imperative that, the, the harmful algal blooms be addressed. So we're looking at that as well. So those are three of the things that we're focused on now.
Dustin Baker It's it's okay if this is something you don't know. I just was recently talking with a gentleman who, makes traditional split oak eel pots. And he was telling me that the eels that live in the Potomac River will actually, travel out to the Sargasso Sea in the Atlantic Ocean to spawn. And that would be a migration of hundreds, if not thousands of miles. So is that true? Did those eels actually do that?
Mike Nardolilli Yes, they do. And, they, there's a term for it, and I'm I'm not a scientist, but there's a special term for a type of species that that lives both in a freshwater and in saltwater in terms of its, life cycle. But, yes, the Sargasso Sea in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean is where these eels originate. They're very small, silvery like eels. And then, through the, I guess, as they drift through the water and they come up the east coast of the United States, and they come up the, the various rivers and streams, and then they, they grow to a large sizes there, and then they, they wind up, like going back down and, going out to the Sargasso Sea. And so, yes, it is true. And what is amazing is that in my own native Arlington, nobody knew about those eels, until there was a polluting event on one of the golf courses in Arlington that put all this herbicide into the, into what's called Donaldson Run and Gulf Branch. And then all of these dead eels start appearing in these little streams that ran through these suburban neighborhoods. Because that's where they went. They they went, that’s where they grow. They go up there and they, they grow into large, larger eels and then then swim back out to sea and go to the Sargasso Sea. So, yes, it is and I, I forget the term for it, but there is a specific type of, name of a species that has this sort of, really, really a, amazing, life cycle, sort of the, the, aquatic version of the monarch butterfly, but of course the monarch butterfly is a lot prettier to look at than than slimy eels, but, well, they they have a great story to tell.
Dustin Baker I mean, I'm getting a deeper appreciation for those slimy eels.
Jonathan Malriat It really sounds like those eels are in a sticky situation with those dams on the river. So I'm glad to hear you guys are working on trying to take care of that challenge. But another challenge that we hear a lot is invasive species. So how has that been a part of your work?
Mike Nardolilli Yes. And let me just say that we had a conference, this fall, on invasive species. Two of them being the, the snakehead, and then the second one being the blue catfish. So what we're trying to do is, we’re trying to encourage people to eat those species, and actually we served snakehead and blue catfish at the event. And people seem to enjoy it. And so if we can get people to and and the state of Maryland has changed the name of the snakehead fish to the Chesapeake Channa in order to try to get people to eat it because nobody wants to eat a snakehead. So, so but we'll see if that is successful. And, try to eat our way out of invasive species.
Jonathan Malriat I will say from personal experience, I've one of the local restaurants out here has snakehead, and it's surprisingly tasty.
Mike Nardolilli Yes it is, yes it is. I mean, I agree.
Jonathan Malriat So the challenges you've identified now, how do you go about managing them? How do you go about achieving success on those, especially considering you're working with five very different political jurisdictions and you're a commission kind of not a full regulatory body?
Mike Nardolilli Well, it's a really good, well, good question. And, what we have done is, collected a lot of data and, share the data with the jurisdictions and, and working with, advocacy groups, who are out there, trying to preserve land or conserve land. For example, we, we have what we call the Drinking Water Source Protection Partnership. And we have put together a land prioritization tool which is designed to identify those parcels of land along the river that are particularly important for drinking water. And we share those with the land trusts and, and other jurisdictions to encourage them to conserve or protect that land. In terms of, encouraging, other actors to, to, to make changes to certain land use decisions we, we've, produced what we call Chessie BIBI. We looked at all of the little streams that feed into the Potomac River and grade them. And then that information then is used by Potomac Conservancy to put together their report card every year on or every other year on the Potomac River. And what that shows is that the river actually has been improving in quality, from a D a few years ago to, now now I think it's a B-minus. But all of the, all of the actors in the area, working together can really make a difference. And we view ourselves as a as a catalyst and a coordinator, and, and a sharing of information so that people and we don't, so we have no proprietary, control over our information. We give it out to everybody who wants it. And they could use that information to, effectuate positive change.
Jonathan Malriat What successes have you had in the past? Are there any key successes that the Commission is really proud of, or any that even you yourself have been a part of spearheading?
Mike Nardolilli Well, very good question. When George Washington was, living at Mount Vernon, he actually made more money from fishing than he did from farming, because of the bounty of the Potomac River. Now, over time, the Potomac River was severely overfished. And one of the key species there was the shad. And the shad make it makes its run in the spring. And then, it, that then, you know, brings out a lot of fishermen, to, to tackle the shad as they move upstream. And it's not just the Potomac. The James River also has a shad run. But over time, the shad disappeared. And so in the 1990s, the ICPRB made it a point of bringing shad back to the Potomac River. And so how do you do that? Well, you engage all the school kids along the river to actually raise the tiny, the tiny baby shad, until they get big enough to be released into the river. And over time, that happened. And, we had a we've had a lot of success in bringing Shad back to the Potomac River, to the point where we had a very successful shad run last, last year. And it's, amazing to see the fishermen on the, the banks of the Potomac, reeling in the, the shad as they go by. The second sort of an indicator of the improvement of the water quality in the Potomac is that dolphins are now going further and further upstream in the Potomac. Maybe they're eating the shad, but they're moving upstream. Now, they've been reported as far as the 301 bridge, not too far from your neck of the woods. And so we're really excited that, these, indicator species are all returning to the river, and that gives us, really, good confidence that we're doing the right thing and improving the water quality in the stream. So I guess the final thing I'd like to mention is that, we, are very much focused on spills in the Potomac, to make sure that they don't foul the drinking water supply. And so we run what's called the spill network. And we we take all the data of people who have, told us about spills or or sewer overflows, and we run a model, and we we provide that to the, drinking water suppliers who then can either, fill up their tanks or, or, close their intakes until the plume passes and things like that. And we urge people, to make sure that when you're on the Potomac River and you see something like a polluting event or something doesn't smell right, or it doesn't look right to tell some local environmental group or tell the local authorities about it, so that we can we can we can do something about it. But a lot of people just will ignore it. But the more, more people who go actually on the river, and I know I visited the beach down at the birthplace, and, its a a very nice beach down there. And so what, if we get more people on the river, more eyes on the river, more use of the river. That that's a fantastic resource for all of the, environmental agencies and the environmental groups to tap into it. So, right now in the District of Columbia, we are working with a number of groups to try to bring swimming back in the Potomac. It is actually now banned in the DC portion of the river. But as the river quality gets better, we hope that maybe people will start going swimming in the Potomac in our neck of the woods, and therefore provide a good eyes and ears on the Potomac.
Jonathan Malriat Really seems like a lot of your push is collaboration, getting people involved and different partners involved. And it doesn't mean just the big regulatory and the big jurisdictions, but even individuals. And so what can our visitors and our audience out here, and even potentially those who don't live on the or in the Potomac Basin? What can they do to support the goals of the Interstate Commission on the Potomac River?
Mike Nardolilli Okay, let's focus on the water quantity side. I think everybody, is very much aware of the droughts in the West. And now we've had some droughts on the East Coast as well, including those in the Potomac River basin and also, droughts up in the New York City area that have led to, wildfires. So we urge people to use our water resources wisely. We have a tendency to just ignore the cost of water, and take it for granted. So we urge people that don't don't waste water and don't pollute it by the use of salt, as I mentioned before, or other contaminants. And we urge people to, to drink tap water instead of buying bottled water. Tap water is actually highly regulated by the government. The bottled water is not, and so actually, people who shy away from tap water, to take to use bottled water are actually not only paying more, but they're getting a more questionable product. And then finally, it's in a wasteful container, a plastic bottle. So, we urge people to, across the country to, to drink tap water rather than buying bottled water. And then also I mentioned before, is that, to, to really be, the eyes and ears of the environmental community on the, on the river, to get out on the river to, to, to go kayaking, to go canoeing, to go fishing, to, to really enjoy the waterway. Because the more people that that can relate to, to the waterway, the better it will be. We have found that, our best stewards of the of the land and the water resources in our area are those who get out and about, who are opt outside, as it were, instead of going to, shopping center. When those people get out and about and actually see the resources, see the, the, the wildlife, for example, and being able to experience, the birds and, turtles and everything else that calls the river home, the better stewards they are of the land and the water resources. So, we urge people to, to go to their, their neighborhood park to go to the state park system, which is excellent in Virginia, to go to the national parks and to, to enjoy their parks, because that'll that'll really help the river.
Jonathan Malriat So what resources can visitors and audience members that are interested in trying to participate and help out? What resources are available to them? Where can they go to learn more about different techniques they can use to help conserve water, but also even help report sightings of pollutants and contaminations?
Mike Nardolilli I think one of the best ways to interface with, groups that are focused, on on water and land conservation is to go to the Land Trust Alliance website, and I unfortunately don't have the exact URL for that. But if you just type land trust alliance, what will pop up is a map of the United States that lists all the land trusts that are out there. And the land trust are not only designed to try to, conserve land by putting land on a conservation easement. But they will also advise landowners about the best management practices for taking care of their land. For example, on the, on the agricultural community, trying to fence out, cattle, and other livestock from the streams, that, that that's very, very helpful. Also to try to have a riparian buffer around the land, so that there's even if you do have a home and a yard, that is on the water if you have a 35 to 50ft or maybe even a 100ft buffer of land that is allowed to grow wild, trees and, bushes and other things, that actually will cut down the amount of pollutants running off of your land into the river by as much as 75 or 80%, just putting in that 35 to 50ft buffer strip along the land, along the river. So, those are those are some of the things that the land trusts will advocate. Of course, you can always touch base with, a lot of the watershed groups that are out there. We had a very good run of, of supporting and creating watershed groups in our area, including the Anacostia Watershed Society. And these groups are out there to, to preserve the land. You probably have a, Riverkeeper in your area, wherever you live. They're all over the United States now. The river keepers, so they are out there, in boats to, see if there's any sort of, point sources of pollution on the river and to report it to the appropriate authorities. So, like I said, land trusts, river keepers, and other environmental organizations. But don't overlook the Department of the environment of your your local government as well. They they can provide very valuable help in the, you know, I mean, like a cheat sheet of, things to cut down on salt use and other things.
Dustin Baker Well, you know, the history and culture of the Northern Neck of Virginia is so connected to the Potomac River. So on behalf of all the people who live out in this region and and all the other states connected by the Potomac, we want to thank you for the work that you do and, for taking time to to speak with us and share your message.
Jonathan Malriat Thanks for listening to this episode of Upon This Land History, Mysteries, and monuments. A thank you to Mike Nardolilli, the executive director of the Interstate Commission on the Potomac River Basin, for taking the time out of his schedule to share his knowledge and expertise on the broader Potomac River, and then even helping us tie to our story here that lies right on the shores of that same river. And join us on our next episode, where we'll be going back in time to look at the bicentennial, not the bicentennial of the United States, but the bicentennial of a man very close to us here at the park, the person who we’re named after George Washington. So we'll be going back to 1932. And the run up to that, to the celebrations of the bicentennial of George Washington's birth. So join us for that episode.
