Utah Real Talk

By Charles Max WoodNews Government News Commentary Politics

Utah Real Talk episodes

October 20Utah's 2026 Ballot: Amendments A & B and the Justice Pohlman Retention Vote
In this solo episode, Charles Max Wood explains the three statewide questions on Utah's November 3, 2026 ballot: Amendment A, Amendment B and the retention vote for Utah Supreme Court Justice Jill Pohlman. He traces the history of Utah's initiative process, lays out the arguments for and against each amendment, says where he leans, and suggests how voters can evaluate a judge.
In this episode
Wood says voters added the initiative process to the Utah Constitution in 1900, but the Legislature didn't pass an implementing law until 1916. He says that law made petitions so hard to circulate that the first initiative didn't pass until 1960.
He places Utah in the national populist and progressive push for initiatives, as the second state after South Dakota, though he says he found no evidence of direct ties.
Wood explains how Prop 4 (2018) was replaced by S.B. 200 and how the Utah Supreme Court ruled in 2024 that the Legislature couldn't override it that way. He questions how the court weighed competing parts of the constitution.
On Amendment B, which would require 60% approval for tax-raising initiatives: supporters point to the existing two-thirds rule for wildlife measures, and critics say it's unclear what counts as a tax increase and that the Legislature only needs a simple majority. Wood says he leans in favor.
On Amendment A, which would end the rule that proposed amendments be printed in newspapers in every county: Wood questions how much local newspapers still matter. He plans to vote yes but would prefer publication on the Lieutenant Governor's website.
Wood says Justice Pohlman is the only justice still on the court from the 2024 ruling and that the judicial evaluation commission recommended retaining her. He urges voters to read her opinions and judge her reasoning rather than the outcomes.
He suggests three questions for any measure: whether a claim is about the text or about motives, whether the argument would still hold if the other side made it, and who is funding the campaign.
Wood reminds listeners that ballots must reach the county by 8 p.m. on November 3. He recommends county drop boxes, citing 2024 ballots that went through a Las Vegas mail facility and reports of discarded ballots in Utah County during the primary.
Resources and links
2026 Utah Voter Information Pamphlet: full text, impartial analysis and arguments for Amendments A and B, plus judicial retention information
Proposed constitutional amendments on the 2026 ballot (Utah Legislature)
Amendment A: H.J.R. 10 (2025), Publication Amendments
Amendment B: S.J.R. 2 (2025), Statewide Initiatives (60% threshold for tax initiatives)
Utah Judicial Performance Evaluation Commission: evaluations of judges on the ballot, including Justice Pohlman
How judicial retention elections work (vote.utah.gov)
Utah Public Notice Website
Contact your county election office: each county posts its own drop box locations
Find where and how to vote
League of Women Voters of Utah v. Utah State Legislature, 2024 UT 21: the 2024 Prop 4 decision
Chapters
00:00 Welcome and Overview
02:05 How Constitutional Amendments Pass
02:50 History of Utah's Initiative Process
05:08 The National Initiative Movement
08:09 The 1998 Wildlife Supermajority
09:23 Prop 4 and Redistricting
12:09 The 2024 Supreme Court Ruling
13:35 Amendment D and the Newspaper Rule
14:20 Amendment B: 60% for Tax Initiatives
17:59 Arguments Against Amendment B
19:14 The Case for Amendment B
20:40 Amendment A: Publishing Amendments
22:43 Do Newspapers Still Matter?
26:11 Justice Pohlman Retention Vote
28:50 How to Evaluate a Judge
31:09 Questions to Ask About Any Measure
32:29 Key Dates and Deadlines
33:19 Why to Use a Drop Box
35:21 Read, Check and Vote
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37 min
October 19Election Integrity in Utah: Audits, Voter Rolls & Transparency with Marilyn Momeny
Host Charles Max Wood talks with Marilyn Momeny, who worked in the Utah County Election Office during the 2022 election and has followed Utah election legislation since. They discuss how ballots are handled and counted, what the Legislative Auditor General's election audits found, Utah's new citizenship verification law, and Momeny's concerns about transparency.
In this episode
Momeny says working in the election office eased some of her worries, especially about signature verification. She describes how complicated elections are: she says Utah County had more than 200 ballot versions in 2022.
She calls drop boxes more secure than the mail because county staff collect them, keeping the ballots in the county's custody. She supports the 2025 change requiring ballots to arrive by 8 p.m. on Election Day.
Momeny raises concerns about mail ballots going to old addresses, about signature-matching machines, and about the former "private" and "withheld" voter categories. She cites a 2022 analysis by Salt Lake County Republicans claiming that more than 100% of those voters cast ballots.
She says the total votes cast in the 2024 official results spreadsheet didn't match the State Board of Canvassers report, and that the spreadsheet was taken down in April 2025 without a correction.
Momeny goes through the auditor general's 2022 and 2024 audits. She notes findings on chain of custody, ballot batching and more than 1,400 deceased voters, and says the audits found no fraud but did lead to more standard procedures.
She describes being turned down on records requests for the data behind a report on voter roll removals, and an appeal to the Government Records Office that she says went nowhere.
Momeny walks through H.B. 209 and the Lieutenant Governor's citizenship review, which she says found 52 confirmed or probable noncitizens and about 5,000 voters whose citizenship couldn't be confirmed.
Wood and Momeny discuss the federal SAVE Act, a proposal to require ballots to be returned in person with photo ID, and how residents can follow committee meetings and get involved.
About the guest
Marilyn Momeny worked in the Utah County Election Office during the 2022 election, where she was trained in signature verification, and now regularly attends legislative committee meetings on elections. She previously ran human resources, training and ethics and compliance for a Fortune 300 company.
Resources mentioned
Legislative Auditor General Report 2022-17: A Performance Audit of Utah's Election System and Controls
Legislative Auditor General Report 2024-20: A Performance Audit of Utah's Election System: Strengthening Election Integrity
H.B. 209 (2026), Voting Amendments: the citizenship verification law
Lieutenant Governor's final report on the voter roll citizenship review (May 2026)
H.B. 300 (2025), Amendments to Election Law: Rep. Jefferson Burton's election bill, which also phases in opt-in mail ballots starting in 2029
Utah Government Records Office: GRAMA appeals
Congressional Research Service overview of the SAVE Act (H.R. 22)
vote.utah.gov: Utah's official election information
Chapters
00:00 Welcome and Guest Background
01:32 Working the Election Office
04:46 Why Elections Are Complex
07:13 Mail Ballots and Deadlines
11:44 Election Day vs. Mail Voting
12:47 Signature Verification Concerns
17:38 Private and Withheld Voters
21:32 2024 Results Spreadsheet Discrepancy
29:00 Legislative Election Audits
34:24 GRAMA Requests and Transparency
36:43 Voter Roll Removal Records
43:40 Citizenship Verification Law
55:41 The SAVE Act
57:16 In-Person Ballot Return Proposal
1:02:08 What Still Needs Fixing
1:06:55 Staying Informed and Involved
1:09:42 Tooele County Data Claims
1:12:36 Accountability for Election Numbers
Support Utah Real Talk
Subscribe for new episodes, and donate to help keep independent accountability journalism in Utah going.
1 hr 18 min
June 10Tina Cannon on MIDA, the Stratos Data Center & Who Oversees It
Host Charles Max Wood talks with Utah State Auditor Tina Cannon about what her office oversees and about the Military Installation Development Authority (MIDA), the state entity behind the Stratos data center approval in Box Elder County. Cannon explains where MIDA came from, how its financing works, and how much audit oversight her office has over it.
In this episode
Cannon says her office has identified more than $520 million in waste, fraud and abuse, most of it in Medicaid. She says the recommendations to fix the problems matter more than the total.
She describes the new MIDA page on Transparent Utah. It was built after a flood of public requests, and she says it led to even more questions.
Cannon traces MIDA from the Falcon Hill project at Hill Air Force Base and explains how its authority has grown over time.
She says her concern with Stratos is the process rather than the data center itself, especially whether MIDA committed revenue, like property tax, that belongs to local governments and schools.
Cannon contrasts regular public infrastructure districts with MIDA's "super PID" powers and notes that PID debt in Utah has passed $4 billion.
She uses the Mayflower Mountain Resort, which she says is approaching $1 billion in bonding, to show how large these projects can get.
Cannon says her office does not contract MIDA's annual audit, but it can run special-purpose audits and will be a concurring reviewer on MIDA's fiscal 2026 audit.
She says the legislature created MIDA and can change it, and that public pressure is the answer to many of Wood's questions.
About the guest
Tina Cannon is the Utah State Auditor. Her office has financial oversight of governments across the state. She previously served as a rural county commissioner in Morgan County.
Resources mentioned
Transparent Utah: MIDA public timeline
Transparent Utah
Utah Office of the State Auditor
Military Installation Development Authority Act (Utah Code 63H-1)
Public Infrastructure District Act (Utah Code 17D-4)
Utah State Treasurer's 2025 debt affordability study
Mayflower Mountain Resort and Falcon Hill project areas
Chapters
00:00 Meet Auditor Tina Cannon
00:57 Half a Billion in Waste
03:13 The New MIDA Transparency Page
09:09 Process, Not the Data Center
12:44 MIDA's Origins at Hill
17:07 MIDA's Quasi-Government Powers
19:09 Fund Accounting and Tax Increment
29:16 The Vineyard Example
32:02 Data Centers and Lake Tahoe
33:19 The Mayflower Mountain Resort
38:41 MIDA Spending and Debt
45:05 Super PIDs vs. Regular PIDs
53:30 Why Stratos Moved So Fast
58:06 Who Audits MIDA
1:01:48 Stratos Tax Breaks and Land
1:03:28 What Concerned Citizens Can Do
1:06:53 Government or Private Entity
1:13:35 Where to Find the Facts
Support Utah Real Talk
Subscribe for new episodes, and donate to help keep independent accountability journalism in Utah going.
1 hr 20 min
June 07Mary Taylor of Pro-Life Utah on the Trigger Law and Supporting Mothers
Host Charles Max Wood talks with Mary Taylor, president of Pro-Life Utah, about where abortion law stands in Utah and the group's work with pregnant women. Taylor explains how the organization started, how its women's support program works, and why she believes Utah's 2020 trigger law is still tied up in court.
In this episode
Taylor says Pro-Life Utah grew out of protests about 11 years ago, after the undercover Planned Parenthood videos, and began by lobbying for pro-life bills at the State Capitol.
She says the women's support program started with one woman who contacted the group. It now gives each mother two client advocates who can be reached at any hour through the pregnancy, and Taylor says it is about to reach its 500th birth.
Taylor describes "life grants" for women who parent or choose adoption. She says money problems and a lack of support are the most common reasons women seek abortions, and gives the example of a $900 car repair bill.
She explains how women find the group: a hotline, digital ads and a mobile ultrasound clinic that usually parks outside Planned Parenthood. Baby showers have mostly turned into smaller "shower deliveries."
Taylor says the program is funded by individual donations, a few grants and a state appropriation. She also describes the group's post-abortive healing support and the Utah March for Life, which she says grew from about 35 marchers to more than 2,000.
She goes through the trigger law's history. It took effect for a weekend after Dobbs, was then blocked, and the Utah Supreme Court refused to lift the block. Taylor says the case has since moved to the Legislature's new three-judge panel, which is itself being challenged in court.
Taylor says abortion numbers in Utah have risen since Dobbs. She calls abortion pills sent by mail the "next battleground" and tells of a test in which, she says, pills were ordered from overseas with no verification.
Wood and Taylor point to judicial retention votes and the caucus and convention system as ways for voters to have a say.
About the guest
Mary Taylor is president of Pro-Life Utah. She helped found the group about 11 years ago and has worked on pro-life legislation at the Utah Capitol since 2016.
Resources mentioned
Pro-Life Utah: donations, contact information and ways to volunteer
S.B. 174 (2020), Abortion Prohibition Amendments: Utah's trigger law
Planned Parenthood Association of Utah v. State, 2024 UT 28: the Utah Supreme Court decision that left the injunction in place
H.B. 136 (2019), Abortion Amendments: the 18-week law Taylor discusses
H.B. 467 (2023), Abortion Changes: the abortion clinic bill Taylor mentions
The Legislature's 2026 three-judge panel legislation
Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization (U.S. Supreme Court, 2022)
Utah March for Life
Chapters
00:00 Welcome and Introduction
02:09 Meet Mary Taylor
02:46 Mary's Personal Story
05:33 Founding Pro-Life Utah
06:22 The Women's Support Program
10:50 Talking With Daughters
15:06 The Life Grant Program
17:58 Client Advocates and Baby Showers
20:25 Funding and the Mobile Clinic
22:17 Reception on the Sidewalk
24:34 Post-Abortive Healing Support
28:48 Utah March for Life
32:34 Advocacy at the Capitol
37:17 Trigger Law and Court Stay
45:14 Changes Since Dobbs
47:30 Mail-Order Abortion Pills
51:12 What People Should Understand
54:18 How to Help
Support Utah Real Talk
Subscribe for new episodes, and donate to help keep independent accountability journalism in Utah going.
55 min
June 06How Utah Water Rights Work & The Stratos Data Center with Ernie John
Host Charles Max Wood talks with Ernie John, an American Fork city council member and North Utah County Water Coordinator, about how water gets from mountain snowpack to Utah homes and farms. They then apply that to the Stratos data center in Box Elder County: what the water tied to the project means, and what questions remain.
In this episode
John explains that the state owns all water in Utah and grants rights to use it, and that priority dates under prior appropriation decide who gets cut first in a short year.
He describes this year's very low snowpack, which may be one of the lowest in the American Fork River's 98-year USGS record, and explains why water that melts before rights start on April 1 flows downstream.
John explains the state engineer's role, the requirement to show beneficial use, and how change applications and protests work. He notes that a protest with data and standing carries more weight.
He says the roughly 13,000 acre-feet tied to the Stratos land was already being used for farming. In his view, a closed-loop cooling system would make water use a non-issue.
John says his bigger engineering concern is the heat from on-site natural gas generators and its effect on the local microclimate. He wants to see studies on it.
He describes working with legislators on HB 501, a 2026 water and sewer funding bill he calls unworkable as written, and suggests asking whether a water bill went through the State Water Task Force.
John explains the state requirement to meter pressurized irrigation and charge for it by 2030, and says growth in Utah will largely come at agriculture's expense.
He encourages residents to start with their city council, know their legislators, and keep showing up after the hot-button meetings are over.
About the guest
Ernie John is an American Fork city council member and North Utah County Water Coordinator. He manages the American Fork Canyon watershed and delivers water to three irrigation companies serving five cities, and he has served on an irrigation board for almost 24 years.
Resources mentioned
Utah Division of Water Rights (Office of the State Engineer)
H.B. 501 (2026), Water Modifications
Slow the Flow
USU Extension: Water
Central Utah Water Conservancy District
Utah Open and Public Meetings Act (Utah Code 52-4)
USGS stream gauge on the American Fork River
State Water Task Force and the Great Salt Lake Consortium
Chapters
00:00 Welcome and Guest Introduction
02:06 Culinary vs. Pressurized Irrigation
02:56 Groundwater and Aquifer Recharge
06:36 How Water Rights Work
10:37 This Year's Low Snowpack
16:19 The State Engineer's Role
19:07 Reservoirs and Flood Control
23:11 Water Districts vs. Conservancy Districts
31:35 Lawns, Xeriscaping, Smart Controllers
34:52 Agriculture and Water Rights
40:11 From Farm to Industrial Use
44:08 Data Center Cooling Systems
49:03 Natural Gas Power and Heat
56:59 Change Applications and Protests
1:07:54 Great Salt Lake and Legislation
1:15:16 Metering Pressurized Irrigation
1:19:28 Growth Versus Agriculture
1:23:38 How to Get Involved
Support Utah Real Talk
Subscribe for new episodes, and donate to help keep independent accountability journalism in Utah going.
1 hr 29 min
June 06Inside the Stratos Data Center: MIDA, Water, Gas Power & Box Elder County
On this solo episode, host Charles Max Wood explains why Utah Real Talk takes a deeper look at Utah issues than short news segments can. He then goes through the proposed Stratos data center in Box Elder County: how it was approved, what it promises, and the water, power, emissions and land-use questions he says still need answers.
In this episode
Wood draws on his software and AI background to argue that AI infrastructure is coming and has real strategic value. He also raises privacy concerns.
He goes over the project's reported scale: about 40,000 acres, roughly 9 gigawatts of planned power, and an estimated $100 billion cost in Hansel Valley.
Wood explains how MIDA's powers let the project move quickly, and notes the reported cut in the energy use tax from 6% to 0.5%.
He goes through the promised benefits, including estimated construction and permanent jobs, payments to the county, and developer-funded infrastructure. He stresses that these are projections.
On water, he describes the roughly 13,000 acre-feet that came with the land, the change application that drew thousands of protests and was later withdrawn, and the developer's stated plan to refile.
Wood says his biggest concern about the planned natural gas generation is NOx emissions and what they could do to Wasatch Front inversions. He also asks whether the project could raise residents' gas bills.
He describes conflict-of-interest allegations circulating online about several state officials. He says plainly that he has not substantiated them and will report back if they turn out to be unfounded.
He covers the BEAR referendum and the project's current status. He says he could not support the project as it stands today but could be persuaded if his questions are answered.
Resources mentioned
Transparent Utah: MIDA public timeline
Military Installation Development Authority Act (Utah Code 63H-1)
Utah Division of Water Rights (Office of the State Engineer)
Utah Division of Air Quality
Utah News Dispatch: coverage of the Box Elder Accountability Referendum (BEAR) appeal
Ruby Pipeline
EPA ozone nonattainment area for the Wasatch Front
Chapters
00:00 Welcome to Utah Real Talk
00:54 Expert Interviews So Far
05:11 Why This Show Exists
12:36 Charles's Tech Background
14:30 AI Infrastructure Trade-Offs
18:17 Utah's Power Story
20:45 Stratos Project by Numbers
24:30 How MIDA Fast-Tracked It
26:01 Tax Breaks and Bypassed Process
26:54 Promised Jobs and Revenue
28:05 Water Rights and the Lake
33:20 Gas Power and NOx
38:36 Land Use and Heat
40:14 Conflict-of-Interest Allegations
44:18 Referendum and Project Status
47:05 Upcoming Episodes
49:31 Where Charles Stands
Support Utah Real Talk
Subscribe for new episodes, and donate to help keep independent accountability journalism in Utah going.
55 min
June 06What This Show Is & The Box Elder County Data Center Questions
In the first episode of Utah Real Talk, host Charles Max Wood explains why he started the show and how it will work: it goes past surface-level talking points on Utah issues by talking with experts and asking hard questions without a "gotcha" agenda. He uses the proposed hyperscaler data center in Box Elder County to show the kinds of questions he wants answered before forming an opinion.
In this episode
Wood says local and state news coverage tends to boil complex issues down to a few talking points, and that Utah Real Talk is meant to explain the systems and pressures behind them.
He asks what the 13,000 acre-feet of water tied to the data center site actually means, and how worried residents should be about it.
He raises questions about generating the project's power from natural gas: whether it could raise home heating costs, put strain on the grid, or create heat and cooling problems in the valley.
Drawing on his early job in a BYU data center, Wood argues that data centers can bring jobs and property tax revenue, and that the industry could be good for Utah if the trade-offs are addressed.
He questions how quickly the project moved through approvals, why the Military Installation Development Authority (MIDA) was involved, and why a project this size would get a tax break.
Wood mentions questions that have been raised about possible conflicts of interest among officials. He says he wants to hear from the people involved directly rather than assume wrongdoing.
He criticizes the Box Elder County Commission for not taking public comment before its decision.
He previews his interviews with water manager Ernie John and Pro-Life Utah president Mary Taylor, and says he plans a future episode on how property taxes and truth-in-taxation hearings work.
Resources mentioned
Military Installation Development Authority Act (Utah Code 63H-1)
Utah Division of Water Rights (Office of the State Engineer)
Pro-Life Utah
Box Elder County Commission
Truth-in-taxation hearings on property tax
Chapters
00:00 Welcome to Utah Real Talk
00:54 Why This Podcast Exists
01:48 Beyond Surface Talking Points
03:04 Show Vision and Logo
03:42 Data Center as Case Study
04:31 Water Use Explained
05:45 Power and Cooling Questions
07:44 Land Use and Scale
08:22 Jobs and Economic Upside
11:29 Tradeoffs and Expert Voices
13:39 Process and MIDA Scrutiny
19:14 Recent and Upcoming Interviews
20:38 Why Local Politics Matters
22:52 Future Topics Property Taxes
24:21 Max Out Closing
Support Utah Real Talk
Subscribe for new episodes, and donate to help keep independent accountability journalism in Utah going.
26 min

About Utah Real Talk

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Big decisions get made in Utah every week, about your water, your land, your power bill and your tax dollars, and most of them get a few minutes of coverage before the news moves on. Utah Real Talk stays on the story.

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