Last show before Christmas - time for some rants! Carl and Richard talk to Billy Hollis about his frustrations around UX design. And Billy starts out talking about the complete lack of UX design he finds in many applications. The conversation digs into the differences between visual design and interactive design, where the interactive part is harder, but ultimately more valuable. Billy also discusses the costs around poor design and ultimately, poor quality software. Cloud and internet have made it easy to update software, but pushing bad software on your customers is never a good idea. Can you see the impact? Lots of great thinking as usual from Billy!

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