ValuePros Show

In this episode of the ValuePros Show, Bruce Scheer and Darrin Fleming delve into the art of being "justification ready" in the sales process. Learn how to build compelling business cases that secure decision-maker buy-in and close more deals effectively.

- Quantifying intangible benefits and aligning them with strategic objectives. - Understanding the emotional dimension and risk quantification in sales. - Components of a strong business case: problem statement, solution narrative, and financial analysis. - The cost of inaction and leveraging industry benchmarks to motivate decisions. - Insights on becoming a master seller versus a novice seller.

Tune in to enhance your sales strategy and boost your win rates!

00:00 Ensure discovery, demonstrate value, justify, execute, impact readiness. 03:23 Engineer evaluating and justifying projects in manufacturing. 08:42 Deals lost due to weak business case, confidence. 10:38 Lack of confidence leads to no decision. 16:20 Most sellers focus on product, not client outcomes. 18:44 Become a business partner, understand and lead customers. 22:21 Align with strategic goals; analyze client and buyer. 27:30 Tool quantifies business case benefits and financial metrics. 28:48 Core metrics drive business value; cost of inaction. 33:37 Quantifiable tangible, critical intangible, strategic impact, possibilities. 35:51 Highlight strategic benefits tied to corporate initiatives. 38:51 Ensure ROI, conduct risk assessment, offer options. 41:16 Thanks for checking out this episode.

Join Bruce Scheer and value selling expert Mike Wilkinson as they dive into the essential skill of being discovery ready in sales. Learn how to master value discovery and improve your sales approach with practical tips and insights.

- Understand why value discovery is crucial for customer-centric selling - Learn how to gain a competitive advantage through effective discovery conversations - Discover the importance of aligning with customer-specific issues - Explore the concept of QLS: Questioning, Listening, and Summarizing - Tips on building trust and preparing for meaningful discovery discussions

Don't miss this episode and enhance your value-based selling skills!

00:00 Importance of discovery in sales: customer centricity. 05:18 Salespeople struggle to define sales value clearly. 06:47 Solving value mystery, important and fundamental. 12:23 Prepare for client conversations, identify generic issues. 14:22 Building trust is key in specific communication. 16:59 Discovery readiness involves customer-centered, conversational approach. 19:56 Identifying value at three levels of business.

Dive into the ValuePros Show with host Bruce Scheer and procurement expert Dean Edwards. Discover the secrets to becoming approval ready in B2B sales. Learn about the internal rate of return, information security challenges, and the distinct roles within procurement - purchasing, sourcing, and category management. Gain actionable strategies to build trust, demonstrate value, and navigate procurement processes effectively. Perfect for sales professionals looking to enhance their approach and close more deals. Don't miss out on this invaluable episode!

00:00 Information security is vital for company success. 03:55 Get involved early, don't start late. 07:08 Strategic financial consultants drive cost benefits. 12:11 Identify procurement organization's character and professional behavior. 14:16 Presenting value argument with total cost of ownership. 17:39 Balancing time between internal stakeholders and suppliers. 19:27 Engage with procurement early; understand their needs. 23:58 Establish rapport, influence, assist procurement teams effectively. 28:33 Procurement relies on trust for successful outcomes. 32:04 Positive procurement relationship leads to successful collaboration. 34:38 Engage with us for procurement strategy guidance. 36:50 Dean Edwards shares valuable insights on approval readiness.

In this episode of the ValuePros Show, host Bruce Scheer and guest Todd Snelgrove dive into the crucial phase of driving execution with a focus on being Approval Ready. Todd, a leading expert in value based selling and pricing, shares his extensive knowledge on engaging with procurement, debunking misconceptions, and creating compelling business cases. Listeners will gain actionable insights on building trust, understanding buyer's needs, delivering impactful solutions, and mastering value quantification to succeed in B2B sales. Don't miss this in-depth discussion aimed at helping value professionals get ready to connect the dots so buyers can buy. 00:00 "Value professionals show up ready to connect." 05:14 Discussing value over reducing price in sales. 07:20 Infosys deal and aggressive procurement process. 11:07 Office supply companies deliver similar products, procurement insights. 16:19 Specifying needs, gathering information, evaluating options. 17:04 Negotiate terms, conditions, price, value, measure satisfaction. 22:06 Early cadences, KPIs, preplanning for contract renewal. 26:22 Logic, numbers, frustration with clients in engineering. 27:00 Emphasizing credibility, storytelling, and preparation in communication. 31:47 Excel value case stages, assumptions, value analysis. 35:35 Broken spreadsheets, costly mistakes, and credible platform. 37:48 Sellers often unprepared, asking essential questions. 41:18 Value professionals make compelling, quantifiable case. Connect and stay updated for value selling.

Join Bruce Scheer, host and guest of the ValuePros Show, as he dives deep into a comprehensive framework for value readiness, developed with fellow ValuePros co-founders and extensive market research. Featuring value training expert Mike Wilkinson, this episode covers critical phases like Building Trust, Understanding Needs, Delivering Insights, and Driving Execution. Learn how incorporating value-based strategies can dramatically improve close rates, deal sizes, and reduce sales cycles. Discover actionable insights and assess your own value readiness with the Value Readiness Assessment Tool available at ValuePros.io. 00:00 Selling based on value yields significant benefits. 04:09 Learning value enablement transforms sales professionals' lives. 08:51 3 critical value dimensions to build trust. 12:19 B2B buyers demand preparedness and tailored narratives. 16:43 Identify key people, sell to benefit, value discovery. 20:25 Understand customer needs, provide relevant solutions. 23:50 Align with stakeholders, meet procurement and compliance. 26:55 Prepare team, define metrics, deliver promised value. 31:04 Learn, enhance, improve, connect, and stay updated. 31:54 Special episode, share and leave a review.

Episode Overview

Today, we dive deep into the power of narrative in shaping successful go-to-market strategies. Join us as Bruce draws on his extensive experience with global giants like McKesson Technology and SAP, illustrating how visualizing problems through simple yet impactful doodles can redefine buyer engagement. We'll also discuss the conciseness and accessibility of Bruce's new book, aimed at empowering CEOs and entrepreneurs with stories that not only sizzle but sell. From choosing his favorite shark with the help of ChatGPT to sharing insights from his global experiences and the essence of narrative imperative in business, Bruce sheds light on creating coherent and compelling go-to-market narratives. Whether it's his unique approach to problem-solving in sales conversations or his personal anecdotes from biking across cities, Bruce's perspectives are bound to inspire your buyer strategies. Stay tuned as we unravel these insights and more, ensuring your buyer's journey is as compelling as the stories you tell.

Bruce Scheer [00:00:00]: Hi. This is Bruce Scheer, and you're listening to the ValuePros Podcast. In this episode, I'm featured with, one of my close friends in the National Speakers Association, Kenneth Kenney. And he features me on his podcast called A Shark's Perspective. And I, I'm just excited to share this episode with you. It features my best selling book, Inspire Your Buyers, Go to Market with a Story That Sizzles. I hope you enjoy this episode.

Shark [00:00:43]: Welcome back, and thank you for joining a shark's perspective. I'm Kenneth Kenny, but friends call me shark. I am a keynote speaker, a strategist, a shark diver, host of this show, and your chief shark officer. When you introduce a new product, service, or solution, what are the costs you're expending? I mean, after all, there are the dollars and most CFOs, banks, or investors don't lend twice for any do overs. What about the space that story takes up in someone's mind? There's a lot of traffic there too, so it's not like people are waiting for you to refine it. Most brand market stories are not afforded a second look. With all the cost being literally and figuratively expended, then how do you inspire your buyers with a go to market story that sizzles? Bruce Shear is a professional speaker and president of NSA Northwest, a CEO of a consultancy, and the author of Inspire Your Buyers. Go to market with a story that sizzles.

Shark [00:01:35]: And on this episode, we will discuss living and studying overseas, a story that sizzles, messaging frameworks, the narrative imperative, trick questions with solutions, problems, and outcomes, the big solution, and the path to change, Developing a set of prescribed next steps, communicating your narrative through simple unforgettable visuals, the big solution, and a path to change, aligning teams, shark GPT, and a lot, lot more. So let's tune into a CEO who takes a walk with this podcast with a shark who, of course, takes a swim on every episode of this podcast. So let's dive into this episode of a shark's perspective. Bruce, welcome to a shark's perspective, if you will. Tell us a little bit about your background and your career to date.

Bruce Scheer [00:02:20]: Oh, thanks, shark. Yeah. It's wonderful to be on your show. I it's one of my favorites that I actually listen to, and I I've got a list. I walk every morning, 10,000 steps, and I love coming into your show. I always learn something and great takeaways and a host second to none. So, Shark, just a bit about my background. I'm a CEO of your professional liar.

Shark [00:02:42]: Yeah. Yeah. But thank you for the compliments.

Bruce Scheer [00:02:46]: Yeah. So, anyway, CEO of Inspire Your Buyers, that dot com. So that's a consultancy firm that helps organizations get their story straight and and, you know, very much into revenue enablement. We'll we'll partner with organizations to kinda bring it and help them accelerate revenue growth for some of the largest organizations in the world and scale ups and every now and then a startup or 2. So that's on the business side. I love doing community service, and this is my year to be president of National Speakers Association Northwest. And, that's been a lot of fun, Shark. We're on our way to doubling our our membership.

Bruce Scheer [00:03:27]: So kind of applying some of these principles even even in the the not for profit world of the National Speakers Association. Redid the website and working on our value proposition. Just recently, Shark, we formed the West Coast Alliance, and that's 5 chapter presidents, including myself, up and down the the West Coast, making sure that all our members can attend each other's sessions. So instead of just, like, one thing a a month, now you got, like, 5. So that that's been exciting. So just, my my background, credit brokerage house. They were good for me both as an undergrad and a grad. They were good for me both as an undergrad and a grad, and, gosh, lived in Asia for 10 years, frequent Europe all the time.

Bruce Scheer [00:04:16]: So I do a lot of international work, and I just kinda landed into, you know, this one domain. I call it the cherry on the top for me. I just love it. But it's helping organizations get their stories straight. And I typically work with business leaders and revenue leaders to do that and then, you know, scale that with their teams, their sales and marketing and product teams. Where all

Shark [00:04:41]: of you lived all over? I think you studied overseas as well.

Bruce Scheer [00:04:45]: I did. Yeah. I went to University of Copenhagen, lived in Denmark for a bit. Gosh. Hawaii was like a foreign country for me, Shark back in the mid eighties. Went to Manoa for a while. Again, U of O was my credit brokerage house. Cornell, spent time over there, and then I didn't stop doing education.

Bruce Scheer [00:05:05]: I represented University of California Berkeley Management Education in Asia Pacific for quite a while as well. So I just kinda continued. I'd bring, props in, and I'd go act like a student and enjoy them. Both the dinners before they they were on stage, and then I'd I'd be a student in the room as well. So I I I love learning.

Shark [00:05:27]: Well, I had a chance to read your great book, Inspire Your Buyers. Go to market with a story that sizzles. What inspired you to write the book, and who was your initial target for it?

Bruce Scheer [00:05:37]: Absolutely. Well, I mean, it it's kinda my story, if you would, you know, of helping business leaders over, you know, 20 years go to market successfully. One of my old bosses told me you can't afford to go to market twice. It's way too expensive. And time goes by, you lose an opportunity. And so that was ingrained in me a long time ago, and just thankfully, I've been able to do that practice working with business leaders and go to market teams across HP, Microsoft, SAP, etcetera, you know, go to market with a new product, new solution. I call them big bet shark, where my client has made a huge investment in going to market with, you know, product investment, partnerships investment, investment in building out teams. And, gosh, darn it.

Bruce Scheer [00:06:34]: You know, they they typically blow it as it comes to going to market with a story that sizzles. So my my target audience is CEOs and revenue leaders and and entrepreneurs. I get a lot of entrepreneurs reading this and loving it, just because it helps them get their thinking oriented in the right way to build their go to market story.

Shark [00:06:58]: Well, you focus a lot on the narrative and the story, and it's something I was thinking about. And you said it right there with entrepreneurs. I mean, people that are, you know, at least in some startups, But the when of when you come into a company obviously will change where you fix the narrative that exists with that company. You know, you're still when it's an entrepreneur, often it's early on and it's a little bit of a blank slate versus you mentioned SAP or some big company like that. If you go in to consult with them, changing that narrative is a lot different. So I'm I'm curious if you can add any insight as to to what you see when you do this that is kind of the win you you take a look at their narrative.

Bruce Scheer [00:07:40]: Absolutely, Shark. And and for for the listening audience, I just need to mention, I still have a pretty good full head of hair. I have lost, especially as it relates to some of those bigger organizations like SAP, etcetera.

Shark [00:07:55]: Well, the more you listen, the grayer it gets just like mine.

Bruce Scheer [00:07:58]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the hair loss, especially for some of these bigger organizations, is when when you're designing a story, a go to market story, there are lots of opinions, and that and that gets amplified in bigger organizations. And every now and then, I'll even have a wizard behind the curtain come out and go, hey. You gotta change that. And he's like, well, you know, we're already a couple months down the road here, and you wanna make changes. Oh, boy.

Bruce Scheer [00:08:26]: And, again, you know, like my boss said, you can't afford to go to market twice, and the tax is so heavy. But, anyways, yeah, sorry. You gave me some p PSTD or what are p t PTSD. Yeah. Around, working with my bigger clients and and the opinions that surround them. But one one big winner, Shark, on all this as you're designing your story that sizzles is focus on the buyer. That's the opinion that matters the most. And that's typically like when a marketing director goes, Hey, Bruce, here's our brand guide.

Bruce Scheer [00:09:01]: Follow this. I'm like, just going, Have you tested this with our target buyers for this particular solution that we're betting the farm on? Well, no, no, not really. And I go, Yeah, I didn't think so. You know, so let's not focus on internal opinions and insular thinking. Let's develop a narrative and go test that with our target buyers. And that opinion matters the most. That's what drives revenue growth, that that buyer back perspective that I really drive towards with the teams that I serve.

Shark [00:09:34]: Well and then also, you said internal, you know, the internal voices. That can include external agencies because in any bigger organization where there's, you know, say, 20 agencies working with them, it doesn't matter if they have nothing to do with brand messaging. They will make certain that they let you know what their opinion is and complicate their the matter more. And until they start to align that message with whatever the the true narrative and story is, it becomes a jumbled mess to your customers.

Bruce Scheer [00:10:05]: Yeah. Shark, I won't mention client by name, but they are a top, Fintech provider. And they had an agency that they engaged to, work on their their messaging platform, their their messaging framework. And, they also engaged me and my team, and, it was really wild. I met with the agency, you know, leader, owner, and, 3 times. And I gave them the framework I needed, which is in the book that I sent to you, around how to design a story that sizzles. And I said, hey, whatever you guys do, you know, I know you're gonna do your messaging framework and do what you normally do, but is there any way that you could help me in my job? I need to build a narrative that sizzles. And I gave him the structure and reiterated that three times.

Bruce Scheer [00:10:57]: Did I get that structure back from them? Hell, no. Yeah. I I literally didn't. I got the typical messaging map and some, you know, some some, you know, you know, very intelligent, well put together, you know, message bites. But I did not get the story. And and so I had to, you know, kinda irritate my client and do do additional work. Hey. We already did all these interviews with the agency.

Bruce Scheer [00:11:22]: What are you doing? And I'm like, well, sorry, guys. We didn't get the answer we needed. You know? So kinda had to do some redo on that to get the narrative straight. And and so far, they're doing really, really well with it. So very often, I try to leverage, you know, the branding work, the agency work, you know, gosh, there's internal people in the organization that cook up stuff too. I typically talk to all the best sellers and say, hey. Send me all your stuff. And that's completely different than anything that marketing has done.

Bruce Scheer [00:11:52]: And so I get I get immersed in this, and then we start to craft, you know, hey, a narrative that's gonna work really well for them.

Shark [00:11:59]: So tell us a little bit about what is the narrative imperative.

Bruce Scheer [00:12:04]: The narrative imperative? Jeez. You know, if if you don't have a killer narrative, a narrative that sizzles, my gosh, you're, you're you're leaving money on the table. And chances are you're gonna take everybody down a rat hole and have a whole lot of no fun. And, when you have a great narrative, I'm telling you, you know, all boats rise, you know? You know? Yeah. You do a great job of of execution around that narrative, and that that's why I typically work with the sales team, the marketing team, and the product team to really align with that narrative where we can put all the wood behind that arrow and really to go really go to market with impact. And when you do that, it's, you know, more profitable. You know, the owners love it, and everybody involved with it is just having a better experience, getting better results. That to me is the narrative imperative.

Bruce Scheer [00:12:59]: And sadly, many organizations didn't get the memo. They still don't have it, and there's a lot of opportunity out there to get this right. Hence, the reason for the book, Sharpe.

Shark [00:13:10]: Well, I want you to tell us a little bit about your trick question that you've tried to get me on before.

Bruce Scheer [00:13:16]: Okay. Yeah. My typical trick question. And I I came to this question having a big argument with a president that I was serving. You know, he, you know, he so the trick question is, what are you selling at the end of the day, Shark? Are you selling a solution, a problem, or an outcome? At the end of the day, what are you selling?

Shark [00:13:42]: Oh, I'm not doing the, pull my finger because you've basically gotten me on this before. So go ahead and explain this to the audience.

Bruce Scheer [00:13:50]: So, so the answer is, as Sharq had rightly pointed out, it it's a trick question. You know, the, you know, at the end of the day, to sell something, I argue you have to sell all 3. It's not just 1. It's all 3. And then the next part of my trick question is if if I have agreement there, yeah, Bruce, you're right. You do need to sell all 3. Now in what order do you sell them to get a buyer to buy? And that's also I I see people squirm when I ask that question chart.

Shark [00:14:25]: So how did you come about looking at it that way?

Bruce Scheer [00:14:29]: My my clients teach me. They they pay me to learn from them. And I got into this big fight with, one of my clients, a president. He, you know, he wanted to sell the solution, and we were putting together a a a booth for him for a trade show that he wanted to go to, and I wanted to lead with the problem on that booth. And he wanted to leave lead with his branding, his name, and the solution. And, sadly, his brand was just nothing. Nobody knew that brand. It was, you know, just a total no name brand.

Bruce Scheer [00:15:10]: You know, they hadn't invested their 1,000,000 and billions in building a brand. Not at all. And but that's where he wanted to go. And I go, no chance. We really got to lead with the problem. So funny enough, he brought me into that that thinking through through that debate, then I had to prove myself. And, have you heard of a guy named Daniel Kahneman? You know, in his book Thinking Fast and Slow, really wonderful. But he he coined and did a lot of research behind prospect theory and loss aversion.

Bruce Scheer [00:15:44]: And that that's beautiful work, Shark, because it really proved my case that if you want to disrupt a buyer status quo and get them interested in true change, not just interested, but willing to take action, you really need to break their paradigm and disrupt their status quo thinking. And the number one way to do that is leading with the problem. That's that's the biggest motivator to get someone to want to change. People hate pain and problem, and they wanna move away from that. The second most powerful element to get a prospect to change, to to truly desire that change and take action is to take them into the promised land, the land of gain. And that's the land of land of outcome. You know, what does life on the beach look like when we've been successful, when we've when we've had a successful change? What that look like? So that's number 2 in Bruce's framework, if you would. You know? So, you know, lead with the pain and the problem, and then make sure you've nailed that before you move on.

Bruce Scheer [00:16:55]: Next, you move on to the, you know, to envisioning the outcome with that prospect so they can see what life and, you know, looks like when they've been successful, and what's their personal gain in that situation. And then if you if if you've got agreement there and if you've anchored there, then and only then do you talk about solution, but not in the way that most people do where they're kinda, hey. Let's look under the hood together and see what's in this thing. No. That's not what we do. We lead with what I call the big solution and and help them see a a path to change. And then so if you get agreement on those three key elements and those introductory dialogues or on your marketing site, for example, your website, you know, get get agreement across those dimensions, then the buyer can do some more deep, you know, introspection, tire kicking, etcetera, and decide to move forward with you. But that's what you lead with.

Bruce Scheer [00:17:52]: Problem, outcome, solution.

Shark [00:17:55]: So I really like chapter 6 as well. I find this with a lot of books, and I find it with a lot of brands. They don't really touch on what is really important, and I think you do a good job of explaining this, developing a set of prescribed next steps and how important that is because we get hits with so much information. It's a great idea, Bruce. Now what do I do with it? And then, you know, you sometimes have to lay that out, and I think you do a great job of talking about that. So if you will elaborate on the importance of developing a set of prescribed next steps.

Bruce Scheer [00:18:26]: Thank you, Shark. Yeah. And I'm I'm sure you've done this yourself, you know, either concertedly or intuitively, knowing your experience in in the world of marketing and sales. But for me, I kinda came to that epiphany, gosh, early on. Thank goodness. You know, I I got brought into a project between HP and Microsoft, and this project went all the way up to Steve Ballmer, owner of the Clippers and every everything else in the world. But my my most stressful project in my career and, what what teased out of that project was me and my team, we were responsible for go to market stories for 8 different solution areas for between HP and Microsoft. And Mark Hurd and Steve Ballmer, they were gonna make this the strategic partnership that has never been seen before, where you have this huge system integrator and software provider really tight at the hip going to market with these 8 solutions.

Bruce Scheer [00:19:24]: So when I started working with the each of the solution leaders, Shark, I was asking them, so, you know, once we got the buyer convinced that they need to buy, what are the next steps? And, most the solution owners kind of hemmed and hawed. Well, we could do this. We could do this, Bruce. And sometimes we do that. But it was kinda wishy washy and muddled. And I'm like, oh, guys, not good enough. We really need to have some hard concrete prescribed next steps for these buyers. And, Shark, these were multimillion dollar purchasing decisions.

Bruce Scheer [00:19:59]: So I just believe in my heart they needed that to get it over the goal line. And just thank God I was given the remit to do this, and the solution leaders wanted to support it, wanted to be successful with these big bets. So we designed and hard coded these next steps, you know, which was typically a business case, an assessment, a proof of concept, you know, some reference checking, you know, etcetera. But we got them, you know, kind of hard coded for each of the 8 solutions. And not that the buyer had to do them, but we recommended those steps to help the buyer buy. And because of that, I won an award. And and the HP people that were part of me, part of this, they won the marketing, circle of excellence award for that year because it was a highly successful approach. Each buyer that started a a selling conversation with us, over 50% of those buyers bought those multimillion dollar decisions.

Bruce Scheer [00:21:04]: So it was wildly successful.

Shark [00:21:07]: Well, a French writer wrote this saying, goal without a plan is just a wish. And so it's always been uber important for me to help get people into those next steps. Otherwise, it's a lot of fun conversation, but it goes nowhere.

Bruce Scheer [00:21:19]: So Yeah. And I and I found Shark that you need to kinda build those next steps. It's not easy. It's not just a magic wand. You know, I have to, you know, what's that assessment look like? What are the dimensions of that assessment? What? Where's the benchmark data against that assessment? The business case, the ROI? What's that look like? Where's the proof around that? How are we going to convince a CFO that that business case is valid, that it's worth investing then and the return is going to be higher than that investment. You know, so just, you know, it might be nice to say, but I'd also say mastered by few. You've really got to get get that dialed in. That's a separate effort.

Bruce Scheer [00:22:01]: Yeah.

Shark [00:22:01]: Well, I love doodles in books, and you get some great doodles. And I I thought it kinda reminded me of this question. The first one, when it's in the introduction, it's almost sort of a signal to me. This is a hand coming out of the water. There was another one where you were telling the story about your dad's boat, and there's a fin on top of the boat, that you'll see. But it kinda goes back to one of the the last chapters, Talk about the importance of communicating your narrative through simple, unforgettable visuals.

Bruce Scheer [00:22:29]: Oh, absolutely. Can I give credit where credit's due, Shark? Sure. I asked my wife to do those doodles for me, and and that's this book truly has been a a family project, you know, including, you know, that story about me buying my 92 year old dad's boat

Shark [00:22:47]: off Craigslist. Yeah.

Bruce Scheer [00:22:50]: Deferring to my smarter brother who's never carried a sales bag. But, anyways, yeah, the the the visuals were were a joy. Yeah. No no doubt about it. You know, in the book, there there's lots of stats in there around the power of visuals. And, gosh, one of my really good friends, another pro in my lane, he he speaks about, Daniel Pink's book, Drive, if you've read that book, Drive. So, he is a lover of organizational development motivation, and and he read that book multiple times. But where the light bulbs went off is when animate if you remember that outfit that used to animate books, you know, they made, like, a, you know, 5 minute animation of of the core of that book and and just light bulbs go off, you know, because of that visual storytelling.

Bruce Scheer [00:23:46]: So I try to do that with, the the teams that I serve. How can we visualize the problem that we're solving, the outcome that we're promising, and then the solution that we're delivering? How do we visualize that in a way that's incredibly compelling? And if we can do that, you know, hey, you know, a 1000 words can go away, right? Like that. You know, we've got a picture that's really going to help people get past their sounds simple. It sounds simple. It it's really hard. I'm I'm working with an organization right now. The CEO's business, you know, he's founder of it. They've been in business for 30 years and doing really well, but he wants to take it to the next level.

Bruce Scheer [00:24:30]: Visualizing their story, it's it's hard. It's not easy. And and chat GPT hasn't solved that problem for us just yet. You know, it's it's a challenge. And I normally start, sharp just as a bit of wisdom for the listening audience is start by trying to visualize the problem. And and, typically, when I start an engagement, I ask for, hey. Are there any visualization? Send me your slide deck. Send me this and that.

Bruce Scheer [00:25:00]: Send me to your website. But send me to where I can see the problem you're solving. And, typically, that's just a loud, you know, thud sound or or or a lot of silence when I ask that question to to send me a picture of the problem. It typically does not exist, and and that's where we need to begin. That's where we really start thinking it through and start to visualize what's this problem perspective look like. And I think you saw in that chapter, I gave an example of some work that I did with McKesson Technology where, which was really great. You know? Getting the team together in a room and and doing tons of doodling as a team. You know, I love to get divergent thinking, so I typically get people into groups.

Bruce Scheer [00:25:45]: And even with SAP, we did this virtually, global groups, but get people to visualize it. Show me what they came up with in terms of, that portrayal of the problem domain in a pictorial format, just doodling. And, boy, that's really telling. And and when we get that right, that can move mountains in terms of busting through that status quo bias.

Shark [00:26:08]: Well, my compliments to you as well, other than just being a a good thought provoking book too, is you did it very concisely, and it doesn't take 6 weeks to read. Like, some people's books have come out of recent that I've, I I I just I don't have the patience anymore for, you know, these these books that I can't finish in a in a day or 2.

Bruce Scheer [00:26:33]: Oh, man. A a guy in our, chapter sent me a copy of his book, and I just saw it. And I go, oh my goodness. This one is gonna take a lot of work to get through. And, it doesn't have to be that way. You know, a lot of books, there's there's a I think there were some rules, Shark. You probably know this really well, but a typical business book, nonfiction was, oh, back in the day, probably 50 to 70,000 words. And and in this modern era, I I think the the common wisdoms between 20 5,050,000 words.

Bruce Scheer [00:27:09]: I decided to kinda do something a little bit unconventional, but I I know, Jay Baer's, I think, been on your podcast.

Shark [00:27:15]: Oh, most

Bruce Scheer [00:27:16]: He did the same thing

Shark [00:27:18]: where, you know,

Bruce Scheer [00:27:19]: I I I took mine down to 12,000 thinking I did mine kinda fast. And the narrated version of my book, Shark, is only, hour and a half. Jay even beat that. You know? You don't have to go long winded on these things to create the value. And, we just buffed and buffed and buffed on this thing to to make it readable in the course of a flight. Or one of my friends and CEO of his firm shot me a photo. He was out in France and he read my book in the course of a doctor's office visit. You know? So I'm not expecting people to to camp on this thing, and most people won't anyways.

Bruce Scheer [00:28:01]: I I wrote it so people could read it. That was my primary aim. Make it short and sweet.

Shark [00:28:07]: Well, Bruce, I appreciate you also listening. And as you know, I ask everyone who appears on the show, and you do live off the Puget Sound. So where there there are some some waters, but, what is your favorite kind of shark and why?

Bruce Scheer [00:28:22]: And and can I, tell you the story, shark, and your listening audience? I'm a chat GPT fan. I I'm in that app, you know, every day doing something with it personally, for business, what have you. But, I asked ChatGPT to help me with this question. You know, what is my favorite shark? And I'm not shark, and I don't have a podcast called the shark's perspective. So I I I needed help. And I just explained to chat, you know, typically, when you're doing a good prompt, you need to load it up. And I just said, hey. You know, I'm an older sales and marketing consultant getting ready to go into a podcast as a guest.

Bruce Scheer [00:29:01]: The host is gonna ask me, what's your favorite shark? I don't know the answer. I do know I'm an entrepreneur, have written a best selling book, have inspired thousands of sellers and marketers through my career, and love learning in different experiences. Can you ask me questions to help me determine what my favorite type of shark might be? And, chat g p t, it's getting so clever now. Shark, it's just getting better every day, but it responds like my best friend. Of course. Let's dive in and find the perfect shark that aligns with your personality and experiences. So it kind of went through an entrepreneurial shark and authorship type of shark, which happens to be a blacktip reef blacktip reef shark, an inspiring shark, which might be a Mako shark, a love of learning type of shark, which is the thresher shark, and then a a unique experiences type of shark that might be the the saw shark. And, I'm, like, going, man, all these sound really cool.

Bruce Scheer [00:29:59]: Could you take a guess for me, Chatt GPT? You know, I think mine is my favorite one is the Shresher shark because it's literally a cutting edge shark. It uses its tail to cut into other prey and, and does pretty good. And I I like to try to be cutting edge myself. I'm I'm at consumer electronic show every year, lurk look looking for the latest cutting edge technology. It's just a passion. And so Shark GPT, you know, responds, well played. Based on your profile as an innovative entrepreneur, your love of learning, and your appreciation for unique experiences, the Shresher shark does indeed seem to be like the fitting choice. Its unique tail adaptability in the innovative way or hunt represented it represents qualities akin to groundbreaking entrepreneurs who stand out from the crowd.

Bruce Scheer [00:30:51]: Embracing the thresher shark as your favorite seems both apt and delightfully cutting edge. And then it follows on shark with good luck on your podcast.

Shark [00:31:02]: Well,

Bruce Scheer [00:31:03]: it's like it's like chatting with my best friend. Amazing. A very kind best friend.

Shark [00:31:08]: You told me about this right before we get on air, and and, thresher shark's a good choice because I'm trying to remember if anybody else has used that. Now they did leave out the hammerhead shark in the unique shark category, but Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thresher sharks have that big tail. They basically use it like a whip, and I've only seen a few. You don't see see a ton of them.

Bruce Scheer [00:31:29]: Wow.

Shark [00:31:29]: But they're mackerel sharks, and they're they're large sharks and spend a lot of time in tropical waters, and they can flick that tail and knock a knock a fish, you know, silly and then go get them. So that was fantastic.

Bruce Scheer [00:31:41]: Oh, I love it, Shark. You know, in in in the work and back to the book, you know, I love helping clients find their point of differentiation and, which which many struggle so much to do. But that thresher shark just seems so different as well that, you know, it really has a different angle to the problem.

Shark [00:32:01]: Yeah. Well, Bruce, it's a special time in the show. Are you ready for the 5 most interesting and important questions that you're gonna be asked today?

Bruce Scheer [00:32:07]: Oh, no. Now it's time to get me flat footed. Okay. Let's go.

Shark [00:32:11]: Alright. Number 1 because I I watch your video on your site. That's that's good. Do you enjoy more riding your bike through the woods and the mountains or riding your elliptical Stairmaster bicycle on the paddle board that you use out on the water.

Bruce Scheer [00:32:28]: Oh, man. Tough choice. I would definitely if I had to choose 1, what do I like more if I was stuck on an island? Well, gosh, I gotta rethink this one. The bike might do not do me so well on the island. Maybe the the elliptical paddleboard type of thing would do best. And I was telling you, I'd said, gosh. I can do a mile in 8 minutes, so I could probably even get to to safety. But I love my bike.

Bruce Scheer [00:32:54]: I I travel with the bike, Shark. Oh, really? Yeah. It's a folding bike. Yeah. And I I, I I I travel around the world with that thing and just love it. I'm trying to be healthy wherever I go, and when I'm traveling, there's rarely time to go to the gym and try to stay to my disciplines, but the bike really saves me. And, I learned from David Byrne a long time ago. There's no better wedding, no better way to take on a new place in a new city and have more interesting experiences than from a bike.

Bruce Scheer [00:33:26]: I just see things that people don't see. I see the homelessness. I see statues. I, you know, I see weird stuff. You know? Just a a bike. I love it for having new experiences wherever I go.

Shark [00:33:38]: Yeah. Wherever I go, I try to go diving. So that's,

Bruce Scheer [00:33:42]: you know Yeah. Yeah.

Shark [00:33:43]: That's why I speak so much on on the coast. Alright. Number 2, talking about inspiring your buyers, and you also do some work as a speaker, but let's talk about who would be your favorite inspirational speaker in history,

Bruce Scheer [00:34:04]: and, I've attended one of his events in Singapore back

Shark [00:34:08]: in the day.

Bruce Scheer [00:34:09]: Wow. He had just come out with Awaken the Giant Within and, was on was on his circuit. And and, I respected him as a speaker so much. Of course, he had us jumping into the rafters in this huge congress type thing. We were all going nuts over him, and he got us all riled up. You know, Taylor Swift music. You know, we're just going nuts. But the thing that probably impressed me the most was his ability to connect with Singaporeans on arrivals.

Bruce Scheer [00:34:41]: He himself and probably his team did a bunch of research and he was giving local stories and references and literally had the audience in the palm of his hand, probably within 5 minutes of being on stage where everybody's just going, woah, he gets us. And then he just took us on a ride, you know, absolutely outstanding.

Shark [00:35:02]: Well, a few 100,000,000 and a few gray hairs later, and he still jumping up and down to Taylor Swift music, and he's still a Svengali with people. It's amazing. Alright. Yeah. Number 3. Let's say you're leaving, and let's say there was not a border to worry about crossing. Would you rather spend a day in Seattle, or would you rather spend a day in Vancouver?

Bruce Scheer [00:35:23]: Seattle is probably my first choice now. And the reason is, Shark, is because we have trolls and I haven't seen any trolls up in Vancouver. I'm going to Vancouver tomorrow, by the way. But, you know, and I I love it up there. But, yeah, we we've got we've got an edge at this point in time. We've got trolls.

Shark [00:35:45]: Alright. Number 4. You live on Vashon Island. Is that how to say it?

Bruce Scheer [00:35:50]: Vashon.

Shark [00:35:51]: Vashon. You live on Vashon Island.

Bruce Scheer [00:35:53]: Yeah.

Shark [00:35:53]: If you could live on any other island in the world, where would it be?

Bruce Scheer [00:35:59]: Gosh. I've lived on a few islands. I lived on, Oahu and Hawaii, lived in Singapore, an island state. Any other island. Oh, man. I'd probably head back over to Hawaii. My wife and I are heading there for a week in December, and and I I go back there every year, but I I I really love Hawaii. I got friends back there, and, yeah, I dig it.

Shark [00:36:21]: Alright. Number 5, and the and the most important question that you're gonna be asked today is biscuits or cornbread?

Bruce Scheer [00:36:29]: Cornbread, please.

Shark [00:36:32]: I really know. I don't think about, you know, the Puget Sound and, you know, southern delicacies like that. So wasn't wasn't sure what you would say.

Bruce Scheer [00:36:39]: Yeah. And it's unusual, and I I only have it around family events. And yeah. No. It it's a fun one.

Shark [00:36:45]: Alright. Well, Bruce, where can people find out more about you, get a copy of this book, and so much more?

Bruce Scheer [00:36:51]: Oh, there's a few ways. I'd appreciate if you wanna go to the website, www.inspireyourbuyers.com. And if you're interested in this book or another book that I was featured in, another 2023 bestseller called, bashfully, the most amazing marketing book ever, Those 2 books can be found at www.inspirebuyers.comforward/books, where you'll see the books that I've been featured in this year. And, I hang out on LinkedIn as well. So, my first name is Bruce. It's b, last name, s c h e e r. You'll find me on LinkedIn as well, and I'd love to connect with you and continue the conversation with you there.

Shark [00:37:34]: Alright. Well, they call him Bruce. And, Bruce, thank you so much for being with us today.

Bruce Scheer [00:37:39]: The real Bruce.

Shark [00:37:40]: Perspective. The real Bruce.

Bruce Scheer [00:37:42]: Thank you, Shark.

Shark [00:37:49]: So there was my conversation with Bruce Shearer, a professional speaker and president of NSA Northwest, a CEO of a consultancy, and the author of Inspire Your Buyers. Go to market with a story that sizzles. Let's take a look at 3 key takeaways from our conversation with him. 1st, you can't afford to go to market twice. That was some great advice that someone once gave Bruce. You can refine your message throughout that story, but that go to market story happens only once. Your wallet likely won't stretch further, so whatever you do, think through that market message. 2nd, when you're designing a story, especially at big companies, there are a lot of opinions.

Shark [00:38:24]: Internal teams are tough to align, but then you throw in those extensions of your team, the agencies, and they've all got opinions, and it can become a mess trying to get everyone aligned with the same focus. The best way to narrow that target though is to test your target buyer. Bruce added, do not just focus on internal opinions and insular thinking. It's the buyer back perspective as he described it that is the winner. 3rd, to see the success of the narrative imperative, Bruce said to leverage the sales team, the marketing team, and the product team. You've heard me speak about this on many shows. The more you integrate your story throughout all your teams, the better success your story will have. Got a question? Send me an email to Kenneth at a sharks perspective.com.

Shark [00:39:06]: Thank you again for the privilege of your time, and I am so thankful to everyone who listens. Today, I want you to find your story and make it sizzle. Just don't burn your finger. Enjoy this on the next episode of a shark's perspective.

Bruce Scheer [00:39:47]: I hope you appreciated that episode, man. I loved it. Kenneth Kenny is just one of the best podcast hosts around. He really studies his audience, read my book, really prepared for that episode, talk about a great host. I hope you enjoy his podcast. All of his episodes are just fantastic. Again, thanks for listening. I look forward to catching you on the next one.

We hope this episode finds you motivated and ready to inspire your buyers like never before! We have some exciting updates and changes to share with you regarding our podcast, "Inspire Your Buyers" with Bruce Sheer.

First off, we are thrilled to announce a complete reboot of our show's format. Bruce had a powerful epiphany during the pandemic, realizing that his true purpose is to inspire others to inspire others. This revelation led to the rebranding of our business around inspireyourbuyers.com, with a renewed focus on helping organizations refine their sales conversations and align their value propositions to truly inspire buyers and drive change.

With this new direction, each episode of the podcast will bring in expert guests and business leaders who will share their wisdom, tips, and actionable insights on inspiring buyers. We want you to not only learn and grow but also gain new perspectives, mindsets, and techniques to excel in marketing, sales, solutions, and customer experiences.

Our goal remains steadfast - delivering value that empowers you to inspire your buyers and drive meaningful change within your organization. Whether you're a marketer, salesperson, or someone involved in crafting business cases and value propositions, our show will provide you with the inspiration and guidance you need.

So, get ready for an exciting journey where we explore multiple dimensions of inspiring buyers - from understanding their needs to delivering quantifiable value. The new show format promises to ignite your creativity and equip you with the tools you need to make a lasting impact.

Stay tuned for upcoming episodes filled with incredible insights, expert interviews, and real-world examples that will help you transform your approach towards inspiring buyers. We can't wait to share these inspiring stories and strategies with you!

If you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to our podcast on your preferred platform so you don't miss a single episode. You can also visit our website www.InspireYourBuyers.com for additional resources and updates. Please also connect with our host Bruce Scheer directly on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/bscheer/

Thank you for your continued support, and we look forward to inspiring your buyers together!

"Beg mail is infamous for its ability to hinder the sales process by irritating buyers. You can learn how to drop beg mail for its more powerful sibling, value mail!"

Episode Overview

In this episode, Bruce Scheer talks to Anthony Coundouris about what you can do to add value to your emails and maximize your success with buyers. Anthony is an independent marketing officer and the author of run_frictionless, a book that explores the importance of building sales systems to achieve predictable sales results. With his global experience in marketing, Anthony has learned the importance of turning beg mail into value mail. Today, we discuss the reasons why beg mail is often ineffective and how you can add value to your email strategies for more effective sales.

Beg Mail vs. Value Mail: Thinking Differently About Communication

Over the last few decades, email has become one of the central ways that businesses communicate with their customers. Technology, however, has its downsides. Nearly all of us have experienced spam in our email and on our phones, whether in the form of unsolicited calls, constant email reminders about a product, or even emails about products you don't need. While most of these messages are automated, some fall under the rubric of "beg mail."

Beg mail refers to the often-repeated call or email to a potential buyer to get a decision on a sale. Typically, beg mail involves asking a buyer for a decision on a sale, either by repeatedly sending messages asking for another meeting or directly asking if they have made a decision. This format does not add value to your buyers and feels more like a sales "prayer" than a cogent sales strategy. More importantly, Anthony Coundouris argues, buyers usually perceive beg mail as pushy, pressure-oriented, or annoying. A follow-up message often won't annoy buyers, but repeatedly contacting your buyers with similar messages will lead you to beg mail territory.

Sales companies resort to beg mail when they run out of energy for communication that adds value (i.e., something new) to a conversation. Anthony Coundouris, for example, found that most of the companies he researched in the United Kingdom switched to beg mail after their initial value mail. These later messages became distracting for the same reason as email spam.

But is there a better way to interact with buyers? Anthony Coundouris thinks so. He argues that salespeople should emphasize the alternative: value mail.

What is value mail, and why does it matter?

In contrast to beg mail, value mail does not focus on the "chase" but adds something new to the conversation. This might include useful resources and information, tools, and other materials that your potential buyer may find useful. Value mail emphasizes building relationships with buyers rather than simply selling a product. After all, your buyers know you want to sell them something; focusing on communication that helps buyers think about the services you offer and how those services meet their needs will be more productive for both you and your buyers.

Value mail is an essential part of any sales strategy with several crucial benefits:

• It builds stronger relationships with buyers
• It increases the likelihood that buyers will respond
• It avoids burning out your buyers
• It teaches you to find new approaches for sharing your product or service with others
• It maintains your relevance with buyers

Remember that buyers have a limited amount of time and interest. Beg mail can often appear copied and pasted, which gives the buyer the impression that you don't value their time nearly as much as your own. Your time is irrelevant in any sales conversation. Value mail, however, can demonstrate your interest in the needs of your buyers and in applying your solution to help them meet their goals. Ultimately, value mail requires changing the way you think about sales conversations.

How do you change the way you think about buyer interactions??

Anthony Coundouris suggests that all salespeople need to make two mindset changes to move away from beg mail to adding value to their engagements with buyers:

1. Get out of the mindset of the quotaPaying too much attention to meeting sales quotas or merely earning the sale can lead you to send communications that lack value. While salespeople have to make sales, they also need to establish trusted relationships with their potential buyers.
2. Get out of the mindset of desperationThe mentality of the quota can sometimes lead to desperation, especially if you are struggling to make a sale. However, instead of falling back on beg mail and other forms of repetitive sales tasks, you should step back and assess your strategies. What are you doing right? What are you doing wrong?

Additionally, it is essential to recognize when you need to do more research on your current, potential, and future buyers. Think about the various uses of your product or service. How can you introduce those variants to different buyers? From there, you can consider the ways that you want to create value in your conversations. These might include pointing to new tools or resources you want to offer your buyers or new ideas and product uses you want your buyers to think about.

What can you do to add value to your sales communications?

There are dozens of different strategies you can use to add variety and value to your sales conversations. That said, Anthony Coundouris suggests beginning with the following elements:

• Consider interactions you desirePut yourself in their shoes. When someone tries to sell you something, what do you wish they would do to keep your interest? Additionally, you should always think about the types of interactions you want to have with your customers and incorporate them into your communication strategy.
• Develop a systemInstead of focusing on a single interaction, a sales system will force you to design the entire sales experience. As a rule, sales systems should help guide the experience with your product or service. Consider the various details about your product or service you want your buyers to experience and weave your communication around those experiences. In other words, a sales system will have a variety of pathways you can follow to guide buyers to the details you think will most matter to them.
• Favorite FeaturesOne easy way to add value is to include a list of five favorite features about your product. The list should provide direct and specific detail about the features without being overly longwinded. If your buyers want to know more, they can ask you directly; alternatively, you can include links to relevant webpages or feature demos in emails.
• Reliving the demonstrationIf you have a demo of your product or service, consider sending it as part of a future value mail or as a new message to other people in the buyer's organization. The latter can start a conversation about your product or service, which can build buzz for your company.

Anthony Coundouris also emphasizes the importance of what he calls "thickening the middle game." Most salespeople pre-qualify their buyers before an initial communication to make sure they are focusing on the right people and businesses. These initial interactions should consider the changes and developments within an organization so you can better tailor your solution to help a buyer meet their goals.

However, the middle part of the sales game presents new challenges for salespeople. For one, the middle game usually occurs after your buyer is already primed with information about your solution; in some cases, the middle game occurs after your first sales meetings. As a result, many salespeople fall back on beg mail instead of rethinking the interactions they want to have with buyers. To avoid this, you should create different types of interactions that you can use at different points in your communication pathway.

Lastly, consider crowdsourcing with other people in your industry. Engage in conversations with other salespeople, especially within your sales team, and find new approaches you can bring to your sales playbook. Remember that organizations that do not rely on beg mail are more likely to last. After all, if you add value in your conversations with buyers, they are more likely to move forward with a sale!

If you want to learn more about how to move away from beg mail to value mail, check out some of the resources listed below and consider grabbing a free copy of Anthony Coundouris' ebook, run_frictionless!

Key Takeaways:

• Beg Mail vs. Value Mail – One major problem with beg mail is that it so often has the opposite of the intended effect. Buyers often see beg mail as pushy, annoying, or overly focused on the sales chase. These perceptions make buyers less likely to continue a sales conversation. In contrast, value mail ignores the chase and adds useful resources to the conversation. Focusing on value mail can build professional relationships and the brand of your company.
• Thickening the Middle – Building a strategy for moving a sales conversation from the beginning stages to a sale is no easy task. However, you shouldn't neglect the middle of the sales game, which many people often do. Instead, send different, valuable interactions to the buyer. Always consider what you can do to create value in your next interaction and what kinds of valuable interactions you want to have. Then design your future email exchanges accordingly.
• Variation Matters – You can maintain your relevance by creating a range of email responses for different buyer needs. This might include letting a client re-experience the demonstration of the product, sharing a list of favorite features, or sending recommendations or materials that enrich a buyer's experience with the sales process. In doing so, you'll create a conversation about your product or service and help them make a buying decision based on the value they can see through you.

Resources:

• Anthony's Links:
• • Follow Anthony on LinkedIn
  • Check out his website for run_frictionless
  • Grab a free e-book of Anthony's book, run_frictionless
  • Read Anthony's blog post: "Stop Writing Beg Mail and Begin Writing Value Mail"

For More Great Content

Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review this show on Apple Podcasts. Here's a cool short video that shows you how to do this.

Your feedback is greatly appreciated and will help me promote the show to others who will benefit from the insights provided by my guests.

Credits

• Audio Editing and Production by ChirpSound

Show Notes and Additional Writing by Shaun Duke from The Duke of Editing

"Every salesperson can benefit from making their outreach efforts more focused and efficient. Whether that entails building client lists or focusing on automation, today's episode will give you the information you need to improve your sales outreach."

Episode Overview

In this episode, Bruce Scheer talks to Ryan O'Donnell about the value of building a focused client outreach system. Ryan is the co-founder of Replyify and SellHack, two services designed to help sellers automate their outreach process. Since 2006, Ryan has worked in software solutions for salespeople with a focus on optimizing sales processes and improving efficiency.

Optimizing Your Outreach Approach for Better Sales

Nearly all of us have wondered what we can do to make our outreach process more successful. After all, outreach is fundamental to a salesperson's professional life, yet turning outreach into sales can sometimes feel like a confusing puzzle.

Many salespeople run into inefficiencies in their sales outreach methods at the "top of the funnel of sales." Essentially, salespeople sometimes begin the outreach process with an overly broad view of the clients they intend to target. As a result of this broad perspective, salespeople hinder their ability to reproduce sales success by putting themselves in the position of needing many different strategies for too many client types.

What can you do to make your outreach process more effective? For Ryan O'Donnell, the critical flaw of the broad "funnel" can be corrected by focusing your outreach on clients who are similar to the clients you already have.

What are some of the critical ingredients of outreach?

Successful client outreach requires the following three components:

• The Right Focus

The chance of a future sale from your outreach efforts will depend on how well you know your customer base. Ryan O'Donnell argues that salespeople must identify the metadata behind their existing clients to effectively focus their outreach efforts on similar clients.

• The Right Messaging

Learning to customize your sales messages to match the different roles in a company or target the right people is an essential skill. Messaging relies on understanding your existing or potential client's psychological motivators, which can vary from person to person.

• The Right Systems

Many salespeople spend too much time on functions that could be automated. Without an efficient system, you will spend time on things like reply emails when you should spend more time preparing for meetings, developing relationships with your existing clients, and so on.

Let's take a look at each of these components in more depth!

What can you do to establish the right focus for your outreach efforts?

Ryan O'Donnell says there are two significant steps for focusing your outreach.

Build an Existing Clients List

First, you should create a spreadsheet containing information about 10 to 20 of your existing clients. To acquire that information, you can use websites such as LinkedIn. The spreadsheet should include the following details:

• First and last name
• Title
• Company
• Company Size
• Industry
• Location
• Keywords
• Groups they are part of

Once you have put together a list of these details, you can use the functions of the spreadsheet to filter your existing clients and look for patterns. These patterns will help you find the types of clients you need to approach as part of your outreach strategy. To put it another way, you can use the spreadsheet to identify the segment of people who make up a considerable percentage of your overall revenue.

Build a Potential Clients List

Once you have identified the types of clients to focus on, you should search LinkedIn for people and companies that fit that focus. Create a list of potential clients based on your findings and use the same spreadsheet format as your existing clients list. Once you have done so, you can begin to find patterns among potential clients, which can open new ways to find new clients.

There are two approaches to building a potential client list:

1. Account-Based Sales Approach

Using a list of companies that you target and sell to in order to find the best buyers at those companies for your outreach efforts.

2. Person-Based ApproachFinding details that describe a person so you can identify the right types of buyers for your sales strategy.

In both cases, a LinkedIn search and spreadsheet format will help you find more people and companies to approach. More importantly, establishing a clear focus will increase your sales success because your sales and outreach strategy will be based on an existing track record with a particular clientele.

When analyzing your potential clients, consider these questions:

• What product or service are they selling?
• On what types of clients do they focus?
• Does their advertising give you a sense of how they are targeting their clients?

Answering these questions can lead to a better understanding of who your clients are, what will matter to them in a sales situation, and how you can adjust your outreach method to connect with their motivations and needs.

How do you create the right messaging?

The key to crafting the right messaging is to customize your message for the different roles that exist within a company. You should target each person on your client list differently because they each have different needs and expectations. To put it another way, each has different psychological motivators. They might be:

• Motivated by data
• Motivated by social interaction
• Motivated by price

According to Ryan O'Donnell, introductory messages should avoid long formats and beg mail and focus on creating value at every touchpoint. Short, easy-to-digest messages present a clear call to action and can link to longer content the client can read if properly enticed. You can create value in your introductory and reply messages by

• Summarizing and restating
• Offering a different point of view
• Offering something new for a client to think about in terms of their business needs or personal motivations

One way to do this is to put yourself in your buyer's shoes while thinking about the last time you received a cold email. How did you react to the content? Did the length impact how you received the information?

Another thing you can do is approach your existing clients to gain direct feedback. Determine why they bought from you in the first place and why they continue to work with you or your company. Acquiring feedback on these topics will help you identify the strategies you need to provide targeted messaging meant for people and companies with different psychological motivators and personalities. Using these data points to construct new messages will also increase your response rate to cold emails.

How can you start developing a system?

Effectively, you need to automate what can be automated to reduce the amount of time you spend on things that are time-consuming and less unnecessary. According to Ryan O'Donnell, the absence of automation in your sales system can waste 2-5 hours a week on unnecessary tasks. Automating more of your sales system leads to higher efficiency and can include automating cold and reply emails, sales prospecting, and client list building, among others.

There are numerous tools you can use to automate your sales system. SellHack, for example, can help you build client lists, find leads, and send cold emails. Additionally, Replyify can help you create email campaigns and devise an efficient email system.

If you want to learn more about how to develop your sales system, consider contacting Ryan O'Donnell about the services that he has to offer (see below).

Key Takeaways:

• Focus your outreach efforts by using a spreadsheet to build a list of existing and potential clients. A client list can help you identify patterns in the interests and needs of your current clients, which you can use to find potential clients to approach. Such a focus will make your outreach efforts more effective.
• Understand that a variety of factors motivates your clients. Your introductory messages have to take into account these differences to have the desired impact on potential clients. One way to work on creating the right messaging is to put yourself in the shoes of your buyers.
• Learn to automate your process to reduce the amount of time you spend on emails, sales prospecting, and other functions that are less necessary. Automation can cut back the hours you waste every week so you can use those hours for more productive activities such as preparing meetings.

Resources:

• Ryan's Links:
• • Connect Ryan O'Donnell on LinkedIn
  • Visit Ryan's company at Replyify.com
  • Learn more from Ryan at his blog
  • Check out Ryan's free 7-day Email Crash Course

For More Great Content

Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review this show on Apple Podcasts. Here's a cool short video that shows you how to do this.

Your feedback is greatly appreciated and will help me promote the show to others who will benefit from the insights provided by my guests.

Credits

• Audio Editing and Production by ChirpSound
• Show Notes and Additional Writing by Shaun Duke from The Duke of Editing

"When it comes to learning as a salesperson, one essential function is opening up to coaching and feedback. This episode looks at why professional feedback matters and what you can do to become open to self-improvement."

Episode Overview

In this episode, Bruce Scheer talks to Danny Brown about how seeking coaching and feedback can lead to more effective sales and stronger professional relationships. Danny is the Head of Business Development and Alliances at SherWeb, a cloud management service that focuses on helping businesses increase efficiency and improve user experience. Additionally, Danny is an experienced speaker and sales coach who focuses on developing companies and organizations through a culture of continuous improvement.

Becoming Better Salespeople Through the Power of Coaching

The ever-evolving world of sales demands an ever-evolving salesperson. Drawing on his experience in athletics, Danny Brown argues that all salespeople need to learn to appreciate coaching as a tool for maximizing their success. Coaching refers to the immediate professional feedback provided by peers, managers, and actual sales coaches. The goal of coaches is simple: they want you to improve.

Coaching and feedback are essential to sales success. Those who seek coaching advice are three times more likely to achieve their sales quotas. Overall, seeking out coaching can help reduce your close rate (i.e., the time it takes to close a sale) and maximize your success rate.

How should you prepare for receiving coaching?

According to Danny Brown, there are three key ingredients that every salesperson must have for successful coaching:

1. The desire to improve
2. The willingness to receive continuous feedback
3. The ability to hone your craft through practice

The success of coaching always comes down to you. Just like athletes who are driven by the constant desire to improve themselves, salespeople must have that same drive. Ask yourself: Are you ready to accept feedback from others? If not, how can you change your mindset to be more open? If you don't have the desire to improve, you are less likely to take the steps necessary to make adjustments to your sales strategies.

In addition to a desire to improve, salespeople must adjust their mindset to be open to continuous feedback and improvement. One successful sale or one successful adjustment is not a good reason to stop improving. Instead, you should treat successes as doors to additional improvements. After all, sales can vary from client to client, and the same strategy may not work the same way in each situation.

Lastly, practice is essential for honing your craft. Without it, you may fall back on faulty practices, regularly change sales strategies, or stagnate as a salesperson. Danny Brown suggests that salespeople need to turn back to the cadence of sales and to "practice perfect" to fine-tune their sales strategies. More importantly, "practice perfect" requires a mindset of readiness-to-learn to make practice effective and useful.

One way to make practice more meaningful is to self-analyze both yourself and a successful sales story. For yourself, you should ask:

• Who are you as a salesperson?
• What do you do as a professional?
• What does your company do?
• What are the implications of feedback for you as a seller?
• What things do you need to think about when approaching each sale?
• What pitfalls do you need to watch out for both in approaching a sales conversation and in soliciting feedback from a coach?

When analyzing successful sales stories, consider these questions:

• What makes the success story a "success"? What worked?
• How do you repeat that sales story over and over again so it becomes a kind of sales muscle memory?

Answering these questions for yourself will serve as a strong starting point before you approach a colleague or manager for coaching advice.

When should you seek feedback?

Most salespeople receive feedback through annual or quarterly performance reviews. While these are useful, Danny Brown suggests that feedback is more effective when a salesperson solicits it at the start of the quarter. There are two reasons for this:

1. It helps set realistic goals and expectations for the remainder of the quarter.
2. It minimizes the stress you may feel at the end of the quarter when things have not gone well.

Essentially, seeking feedback from peers or managers at the start of the quarter means you are more likely to receive continuous feedback that can lead to continuous adjustments. These "micro" adjustments can lead to more sales and significantly less stress, in part because you are more likely to bring your best game throughout the whole quarter.

What can you do to solicit useful coaching?

The first place to start when soliciting coaching and feedback is with your colleagues. Danny Brown suggests approaching colleagues who are successful in specific areas and seeking advice to help you improve in those same areas. Sales teams should be collaborative, and working together can build a culture of shared experience and teamwork that will increase sales and create a positive working environment.

While soliciting feedback from your peers is essential, you should also consider feedback from your sales manager. Managers are in a unique position to provide useful input because they see sales from a business perspective. Unfortunately, many managers are used to impersonal metrics for coaching their employees and may not have the personal experience for more proactive, personalized coaching. Salesforce notes that "only 50% of organizations invest in ongoing training and development of their sales managers." As a result, getting the desired type of feedback may be difficult because it may not be intuitive to your manager.

Danny Brown, however, thinks that salespeople should help their sales managers learn to coach effectively. Doing so not only gives a sales manager a sense of importance and value in the "team" side of sales but also helps focus your manager on details that a metric-based view does not provide. To do so, consider asking some of these questions:

• Did you introduce the story correctly?
• Did you ask for the sale at the right point?
• What could you do to better connect with customers? What could you do to prepare customers for a sale?
• Did you create urgency for the customer?
• Did you listen well or speak well to the customer?
• Did you create a dialogue?
• Did you ask open-ended questions to get the customer excited?

Remember that coaching is not a ride-along. You need to provide colleagues or managers with the things you consider weaknesses about yourself. In doing so, you will give coaches specific targets to meet and increase the usefulness of the feedback you receive.

Remember: Never stop learning. Always grow. Always improve. These principles are essential to becoming a better salesperson and for creating "perfect" sales stories.

Key Takeaways:

• Having the desire to improve yourself is essential to successful coaching. Without the desire to improve, salespeople likely won't seek continuous feedback or make the kinds of adjustments necessary for fruitful sales conversations.
• Seek feedback at the start of a quarter to minimize stress and to increase your ability to make "micro" adjustments throughout the quarter. Doing so can increase sales success and help you lead with your best foot forward.
• Learn how to help sales managers provide proactive feedback by asking key focus questions. Since sales managers often see sales from a business perspective, they are not always prepared to provide the personal feedback that can help a salesperson make adjustments. Asking the right questions can help managers see their value in a professional relationship and can lead to more personalized coaching.

Resources:

• Danny's Links:
• • SherWeb
  • Follow Danny on LinkedIn
• Additional Resources:
• • Connecting the Dots: Lessons for Leadership in a Startup World by John Chambers and Diane Brady
  • "Day in the Life: LeBron James" via Owaves

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Credits

• Audio Editing and Production by ChirpSound
• Show Notes and Additional Writing by Shaun Duke from The Duke of Editing