Vanessa Frake. Is a retired prisoner governor. After working many years in the prison service and some of the biggest prison in the United Kingdom. She also has her own book out that you can get on Amazon. She also got an MBE from the queen she’s inspirational and she’s brilliant and it was a joy to have her on my podcast. Please enjoy rate admire subscribe thank you.https://www.amazon.co.uk/GOVERNOR-unbelievable-Britains-notorious-BESTSELLER/dp/0008390053