In January 2014, James Aspey took a year-long vow of silence.

For 365 days, James did not use his voice, in an effort to raise awareness to the suffering of animals. And when he finally spoke, his words had great power. He reached millions of people in his first interview for Australian television, then gave hundreds of talks across the globe (virtually all free of charge) to encourage people to take action to help animals. 

But James, in many vegan circles, is now a villain. The reasons for this are complicated and, to be honest, often hard for me to ascertain. Some people condemn him for a crypto investment strategy he touted. Others criticize his increasingly aggressive language against non-vegans. But the James I know is far from a villain – or, really, a hero, either. He’s simply my friend. From the moment I met James outside of a massive North Carolina slaughterhouse many years ago, I saw something beautiful and kind in him. I still see that in him today, no matter what anyone else says. 

There are lessons in James’ experience, and in our conversation, about how we can heal the divides in our world. For one, the intense vulnerability of this conversation, in which we both talk about our experiences with disordered eating, shows how candor builds trust. But the most important lesson is to lead with love rather than hate. I love James. I don’t think he’s perfect. (Neither am I, or anyone else I know.) But I know he’s a person deserving of love, as are all the sentient beings of this earth. If we start there, rather than with judgment or hate, there’s so much we can accomplish. 

Follow James by going to @jimmycashpey on Instagram and Facebook and by @James_Aspey on YouTube. 

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Chapter 1 00:00-17:37 - Intro, Logan Paul podcast conversation, persuasion, & Lee Priest

Chapter 2 17:38-34:45 - Shame, a diversity of voices in the movement, James becoming vegan, & being an activist

Chapter 3 34:46-44:46 - James’s on his health issues (cancer & an eating disorder) & starting his one-year vow of silence

Chapter 4 44:47-1:05:01 - Meditation, chronic pain, stress, & false rumors

Chapter 5 1:05:02-1:13:20 - Betrayal, understanding hurt people, & healing from trauma

Chapter 6 1:13:21-1:25:47 - Joy in the movement, criticism in the movement, develop your skills, & James’s activism as music

Chapter 7 1:25:48-1:35:19 - Have fun while being an activist & growing your skills strengthens the movement

Chapter 8 1:35:20-1:43:58 - Vegans have so much to offer, overcoming self-doubt, & being positive

Chapter 9 1:43:59-2:07:22 - Fur banned in California, Chat GBT being weird, James on misinformation, James rapping for the animals, & outro