The Simple Heart w/ Wayne Hsiung

Jeff Kerr at PETA has brought some of the wildest legal cases in animal rights history: monkey selfies, orca slavery, and more. I chatted with him about why these “crazy” cases actually have solid legal grounds–and why Jeff has immense hope for the future of animal law and animal rights.

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“Right to listen” lawsuit:

https://www.peta.org/news/peta-sues-nih-nimh-in-groundbreaking-lawsuit/

American Kennel Club lawsuit:

https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/peta-files-suit-against-american-kennel-club-for-designing-promoting-and-profiting-off-deformed-dogs/

Maine Lobster Festival lawsuit:

https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/maine-lobster-festival-sued-by-peta-for-steaming-lobsters-alive/ 

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About Jeff Kerr: As chief legal officer to PETA and other PETA entities for nearly 30 years, Jeff Kerr is the longest-tenured legal head of any animal protection organization. He built and leads the world’s largest legal team working for animal liberation, which was named Corporate Counsel magazine’s Best Legal Department in 2017—the first animal protection group and only the second nonprofit to receive that honor. Kerr is a graduate of the University of Virginia School of Law, which recognized his public service work with the prestigious Shaping Justice Award for Extraordinary Achievement, and George Mason University, where he was a Weber scholar. His high-profile cases have made headlines around the world and sparked a global conversation about the legal rights of animals.

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

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Chapters:

Intro) 00:00-07:35 Jeff Kerr on how to understand how the law works for animals, whistleblowers, & unnecessary testing on macaque monkeys

Chapter 2) 07:36-15:36 PETA’s controversial lawsuits

Chapter 3) 15:37-19:44  PETA as bipartisan, on the NIH, & the merits of PETA’s lawsuits

Chapter 4) 19:45-24:32 PETA on consumerism, new laws for animals, & enforcing existing laws for animals

Chapter 5) 24:33-35:24 The humanewashing problem, research on consumerism, & environmentalism

Chapter 6) 35:25-41:44 PETA’s focus of protests & different activist groups working together

Chapter 7) 41:45-49:35 An ambitious lawsuit: The Maine Lobster Festival

Chapter 8) 49:36-52:22  A historical view of the  animal rights movement & PETA getting attention

Chapter 9) 52:23-59:10 Fast questions, advice on activist teams, and hope for the future

Chapter 10) 59:11-59:27 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Adam Durand, & Chloe Leffakis

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Books Mentioned:

Consider the Lobster by David Foster Wallace

Diet for a New America by John Robbins

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Loving v. Virginia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Hirschkop 

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Joey Savoie, the co-founder of Ambitious Impact, lives his life by spreadsheets, and it’s allowed him to create tremendous impact. Should we follow in his footsteps?

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

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Chapters:

Intro) 00:00-13:41 Why Joey likes optimization for important things in life & his response to push-backs

Chapter 2) 13:42-18:13 Joey on meditation and how it helps optimization

Chapter 3) 18:14-29:36 What is Ambitious Impact (AIM) and Charity Entrepreneurship & helping NGOs/Nonprofits to be more popular and efficient

Chapter 4) 29:37-45:12 Examples of leveraging status in a positive way

Chapter 5) 45:13-55:33 AIM and Charity Entrepreneurship - how it started and goals, on Joey’s parents and upbringing, & current moral/ethical development

Chapter 6) 55:34-1:11:33 Joey on ethics & social effects of relationships

Chapter 7) 1:11:34-1:19:26 How AIM and Charity Entrepreneurship helps with social support and what Joey as an individual has learned from it

Chapter 8) 1:19:27-1:31:12 Joey on Effective Altruism (EA), AIM looking for skepticism in humility and moral ambition, & groups measuring and reacting to different results

Chapter 9) 1:31:13-1:41:14 Joey on EA not able to reach goals & Joey on introspection leading to action or inaction

Chapter 10) 1:41:15-1:49:41 What has Joey learned about learning, why you should read books, & also learn from outside your community

Chapter 11) 1:49:42-1:50:58 Joey’s most important lesson from years of being an optimizer

Chapter 12) 1:50:59-1:52:39 Follow AIM (http://charityentrepreneurship.com) and Joey (https://measuredlife.substack.com/)! (other links below)

Chapter 13) 1:52:40-1:52:56 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Adam Durand & Chloe Leffakis

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Follow AIM and Joey:

https://charityentrepreneurship.com 

https://ambitiousimpact.com 

https://measuredlife.substack.com/ 

https://substack.com/@goodenoughjoey 

https://www.facebook.com/joey.savoie 

https://www.facebook.com/charityentrepreneurship 

https://www.instagram.com/ambitiousimpact/ 

https://x.com/goodenoughjoey 

https://x.com/charity_ep 

https://www.youtube.com/@charityentrepreneurship6301 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/joey-savoie-b5937356/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/charityentrepreneurship/

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Books Mentioned:

Moral Ambition by Rutger Bregman

The Growth Mindset: A Guide to Professional and Personal Growth (The Art of Growth) by Joshua Moore & Helen Glasgow

The UK climate movement achieved a historic win. Roger Hallam doesn’t give a f—.

Visit the blog to learn how to ask for Roger to be freed: https://blog.simpleheart.org/p/does-virtue-matter-more-than-impact

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://simpleheart.org!

George Martin has some of the most controversial takes in animal rights, from George Floyd to Gaza. Should that get him canceled?

Find more of George Martin at https://www.youtube.com/@CarnismDebunked/

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

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Chapters:

Intro) 00:00-13:49 BLM and intersectionality in activist movements

Chapter 2) 13:50-19:16 Systemic racism in policing

Chapter 3) 19:17-28:12 Police shootings of Justine Damond and Daniel Shaver

Chapter 4) 28:13-41:23 Derek Chauvin’s prison sentence & George Floyd’s cause of death

Chapter 5) 41:24-57:36 Intersectional infighting in activist movements, cancel culture, & bad intentions and actions of some “activists”

Chapter 6) 57:37-1:06:10 Left-wing and Right-wing principles, horseshoe theory, & extremists in different movements

Chapter 7) 1:06:11-1:23:14 Why and how to talk or not talk about intersectionality in the animal rights movement & mob mentality

Chapter 8) 1:23:15-1:34:31 Why George is not scared to speak about controversial topics & inclusion and exclusion in movements 

Chapter 9) 1:34:32-1:44:52 Is intersectionality good for the movement & effective messaging

Chapter 10) 1:44:53-1:47:14 Final thoughts- We the Free, Carnism Debunked YouTube & Podcast

Chapter 11) 1:47:15-1:47:32 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Adam Durand & Chloe Leffakis

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Follow George Martin:

Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/CarnismDebunked 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/carnism_debunked/ 

XTwitter: https://x.com/CarnismDebunked 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CarnismDebunked 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/george.magicmartin 

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/CarnismDebunked 

Podcast: https://creators.spotify.com/pod/profile/carnismdebunked/  

Website: https://www.carnismdebunked.com/

The state tried to jail me for rescuing dogs. Now it’s helping us save them. But there’s so much more than 3000 dogs at stake.-The Simple Heart on Substack

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Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://simpleheart.org!

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00:00 Intro

01:10 How does scalable change work?

04:26 Action-attention feedback loop

06:17 Momentum

08:12 The "Day 2" Question

09:02 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Joe Allman, Adam Durand, & Chloe Leffakis

You can’t create change by threatening to kill people.

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://simpleheart.org!

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Chapters:

Chapter 1) 00:00 Intro

Chapter 2) 01:50 The importance of nonviolence

Chapter 3) 03:38 Winning over adversaries 

Chapter 4) 05:37 Pushing back against “Safetyism”

Chapter 5) 07:58 Conclusion 

Chapter 6) 10:52 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Joe Allman, Adam Durand, & Chloe Leffakis

Elon has one weakness: animal cruelty. And the one woman who could expose it has just been fired.

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Register for the event “Animal Rescue in the Age of Trump - DC Summit” in March:

https://rescue.eventbrite.com/?aff=spotify 

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

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Chapter 1) 00:00 Intro, Elon’s mission

Chapter 2) 00:45 What programs were cut

Chapter 3) 02:09 Selling these cuts to the public

Chapter 4) 03:53 Elon’s interests in deregulation

Chapter 5) 04:37 Neuralink 

Chapter 6) 06:44 Phyllis Fong

Chapter 7) 08:36 A simple message to explain Elon’s actions

Chapter 8) 10:10 Closing thoughts

Chapter 9) 12:24 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Joe Allman, Adam Durand, & Chloe Leffakis

People say animal rights won’t be achieved for centuries or even millennia. Here’s why they’re wrong. 

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Register for the event “Animal Rescue in the Age of Trump - DC Summit” in March:

https://rescue.eventbrite.com/?aff=spotify 

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

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Chapters:

Chapter 1) 00:00-2:49 Intro: Animal Liberation will happen in one generation, Peanut The Squirrel, & animal cruelty issues during the 2024 Presidential Election

Chapter 2) 2:50-5:38 Philosophical legitimacy of animal rights & the popular appeal of animal rights 

Chapter 3) 5:39-7:24 Why there is not a political movement pushing animal rights: obstacle one - preference falsification

Chapter 4) 7:25-9:53 Why there is not a political movement pushing animal rights: obstacle two - lack of vision

Chapter 5) 9:54-16:43 How to reverse these two obstacles and find opportunities for change & let us know your thoughts on Animal Liberation in one generation

Chapter 6) 16:44-17:00 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Joe Allman, Adam Durand, & Chloe Leffakis

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A breakthrough Chinese AI shook the global economy. Vegans can do the same – if we learn from what made Deepseek great. 

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Register for the event “Animal Rescue in the Age of Trump - DC Summit” in March:

https://rescue.eventbrite.com/?aff=spotify

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

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Chapters:

Chapter 1) 00:00-4:47 Intro: on the successful and new AI DeepSeek, factory farms, & the Animal Rights movement

Chapter 2) 4:48-12:46 How DeepSeek and the Animal Rights movement can be alike: Transparency

Chapter 3) 12:47-19:56 How Deepseek and the Animal Rights movement can be alike: Diversity

Chapter 4) 19:57-26:18 How DeepSeek and the Animal Rights movement can be alike: Purpose

Chapter 5) 26:19-27:50 Final thoughts: summary & 

Chapter 6) 27:51-28:08 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Joe Allman, Adam Durand, & Chloe Leffakis

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Getting arrested for the animals isn’t a problem for the movement. It’s an opportunity.

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

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Register for the event in March “Animal Rescue in the Age of Trump - DC Summit”:

https://rescue.eventbrite.com/?aff=spotify

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Chapters:

Chapter 1) 00:00-5:59 Intro: veganism, animal rights, voluntary prosecution, & trials for social change in the past

Chapter 2) 6:00-7:59 Reason one: trials force society away from systemic inertia

Chapter 3) 8:00-9:15  Reason two: trials are not affected by regulatory capture (example money in politics)

Chapter 4) 9:16-19:42 Other social justice movements using voluntary prosecution & on women’s right activist Susan B. Anthony

Chapter 5) 19:43-25:33 On gay rights activist Dale Jennings

Chapter 6) 25:34-33:58 What do trials mean for animal rights and veganism, & how and when social change happens

Chapter 7) 33:59-35:43 Opportunities to participate in activism and the “Animal Rescue in the Age of Trump - DC Summit” in March, link above

Chapter 8) 35:44-36:00 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Joe Allman, Adam Durand, & Chloe Leffakis

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Links:

"Voluntary Prosecution and the Case of Animal Rescue" by Justin Marceau, Wayne Hsiung, and Steffen Seitz

https://harvardlawreview.org/forum/vol-137/voluntary-prosecution-and-the-case-of-animal-rescue/ 

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