The Simple Heart w/ Wayne Hsiung

What happens when a joyous vegan enters the disturbing halls of an industrial factory farm? 

Jamie Logan is what I’d call a joyous vegan. Her activism is filled with warmth and humor, even as she speaks strongly for animal rights. I had her on the show because of a recent change in her activism: she has started going undercover into factory farms, witnessing things that are anything but joyous. 

How does she manage the tension between joy and anger? How does she find peace while witnessing things that no one should witness? We discuss in the latest episode. 

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Akin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S6hiq0EXjk

Allied scholars tour:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DBSF_6fJN6P/?img_index=1

Vegan fashion show:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DBd07Y7JQrf/

Rather go naked than wear leather:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C_1Y5zEJ8EG/?img_index=1

Fishing demo:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C_xoeK3pWLr/?img_index=1

Pig crate art installation:

​​https://www.instagram.com/p/C_rJgGfpAz2/?img_index=1 

Down with dairy art campaign:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DAtKBMNJYes/

Yale disruption:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DAcIA38JnLC/ 

JIVAMUKTI YOGA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLf_m8oyEto

Charlie the (mechanical) cow:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DAwD_JZpWo7/?img_index=3

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

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Chapters:

Chapter 1) 00:00-16:19 Intro, Jamie is doing so much activism for animals, details of the investigation with the “AKIN” documentary in the UK, & a transition in Jamie’s activism

Chapter 2) 16:20-24:37 Jamie on investigating the pig farm, other undercover investigators, & the importance of animal rescue

Chapter 3) 24:38-35:00 Animal rights activism with controversial art (Speciesism WTF, 269, Dan Dunbar)

Chapter 4) 35:01-48:40 Risks of doing investigations & where/why investigations are happening

Chapter 5) 48:41-59:47 How Jamie continues to stay positive & doing animal rights activism at colleges

Chapter 6) 59:48-1:25:08 Fishing exhibition/demonstration (post link above), & Jamie on self-care through yoga & spirituality

Chapter 7) 1:25:09-1:36:32 Wayne on Buddhism, Jamie on being a better person, what an important investment is, how Jamie continues to do activism, & follow Jamie (links below)

Chapter 8) 1:36:33-1:36:48 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Joe Allman, Adam Durand, & Chloe Leffakis

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Follow Jamie:

https://www.itsjamiescorner.com 

https://www.facebook.com/jamie.kurtzer 

https://www.facebook.com/itsjamiescorner/ 

https://www.instagram.com/itsjamielogan/ 

https://www.instagram.com/itsjamiescorner/ 

https://www.instagram.com/jsykpodcast/ 

https://x.com/itsjamiescorner 

​​https://www.tiktok.com/@itsjamiescorner?lang=en 

https://www.youtube.com/@JamiesCornershow 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-logan-5232b233/ 

https://www.threads.net/@itsjamielogan 

Follow Speciesism WTF:

https://www.instagram.com/speciesism.wtf/ 

https://www.threads.net/@speciesism.wtf 

https://www.facebook.com/speciesism.wtf 

https://x.com/speciesismWTF 

Follow Animal Justice Project:

https://www.animaljusticeproject.com 

https://www.facebook.com/animaljusticeproject 

https://www.instagram.com/animaljusticeproject 

https://www.twitter.com/ajpReact 

​​https://www.tiktok.com/@animaljusticeproject?lang=en 

https://www.youtube.com/@AnimalJusticeProject

https://www.linkedin.com/company/animal-justice-project/ 

https://www.threads.net/@animaljusticeproject

Pnut, a rescued squirrel seized and killed by the New York State Police, played a shocking last minute role in the election of Donald Trump. What does this mean for the future of animal rights? I discuss with Jeremy Beckham. 

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

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Chapters:

Chapter 1) 00:00-14:25 Intro, backlash against Trump from the animal rights movement, interest on social media about Pnut the squirrel, the growing base of the Republican Party

Chapter 2) 14:26-25:41 The growing base of the Republican Party, failures of the mainstream Democratic Party, government failures on rabies & Covid, & both political parties lie

Chapter 3) 25:42-36:55 The culture problem in politics & media, the Left going after Joe Rogan, Bernie Sanders, and Ezra Klein, & the Democratic Party establishment not understanding the working class

Chapter 4) 36:56-47:56 Thoughts on Biden and Trump administrations’ views towards animal issues and other issues, & perspective on animal rights activism and politics

Chapter 5) 47:57-1:06:40 Democratic Party communication failures with the public, political identity inside or outside the political establishment, & Obama’s early grassroots activism

Chapter 6) 1:06:41-1:16:40 The rare times Trump tells the truth, the danger of Trump’s lies, & on concerns about deportation

Chapter 7) 1:16:41-1:30:06 Elections that turned against the Democratic Party, on symbolic political changes, on traditions/history/the“Americana” zeitgeist

Chapter 8) 1:30:07-1:34:13 Final thoughts: What all activists can do to over the next 4 years to create a better country

Chapter 9) 1:34:13-1:34:28 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Joe Allman, Adam Durand, & Chloe Leffakis

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Books mentioned:

“The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream” by Barack Obama

—Follow Jeremy Beckham:

https://twitter.com/JeremyBeckham 

https://www.instagram.com/j.s.beckham/ 

https://www.facebook.com/slcvegan 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jsbeckham/ 

Follow Utah Animal Rights Center (UARC):

https://www.facebook.com/utahanimalrights 

https://twitter.com/UARC 

https://www.instagram.com/utahanimalrights/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/utahanimalrights/about/

Numerous pro-animal initiatives lost at the ballot box – in some cases, by huge margins. I break down what happened with Natalie Fulton at Pro-Animal Future, and how the animal rights movement will bounce back.

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Follow Pro-Animal Future:

https://ProAnimalFuture.org

https://www.instagram.com/proanimalfuture/

Follow Natalie:

www.youtube.com/@Natalie.Fulton 

patreon.com/nataliefulton 

https://nataliefulton.substack.com/ 

https://www.instagram.com/nattiefulton/ 

https://www.tiktok.com/@nattiefulton 

https://www.threads.net/@nattiefulton 

https://www.facebook.com/nataliefu26  

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

“Presidential elections don’t matter.” This is the controversial proposition I take up with Vegan Gains, days before the vote. And we reach some surprising points of agreement by the end of the conversation. 

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Follow Vegan Gains:

https://www.patreon.com/vegangains 

https://www.instagram.com/vegangains.real/ 

https://www.youtube.com/@VeganGains 

https://www.facebook.com/VeganGainsOfficial 

https://www.twitter.com/VeganGains 

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

A recent undercover investigation exposed the use of Judas Sheep – adult sheep trained to betray lambs and lead them to slaughter. But the concept of the Judas Sheep has implications far beyond the walls of a slaughterhouse. Indeed, there are Judas Sheep – politicians corruptly acting on behalf of the powerful – leading our entire nation to self-destruction. How do we overcome the problem?

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

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Chapters:

Chapter 1) 00:00-6:24 Intro: the feelings of betrayal, what is the Judas Sheep, & the DxE investigation at Superior Farms in Denver

Chapter 2) 6:24-10:06 The betrayal in the American political system

Chapter 3) 10:07-18:35 What the problems are in the American political system

Chapter 4) 18:36-24:27 How society needs to change to be better, interest in the election, find your voice for the animals, & what’s happening soon 

Chapter 5) 24:28-24:43 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Joe Allman, Adam Durand, & Chloe Leffakis

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Chart: "The Productivity–Pay Gap" (Economic Policy Institute)

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The Democratic Party in Denver has accused animal rights of racism for advocating against the slaughter of animals. Workers of color, they say, will be negatively affected. Natalie Fulton and I discuss how to respond to these allegations - and what this incident shows us about the “high conflict personalities” who have taken over our political system.

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Phone banking:

https://connectforanimals.com/group/1693590764695x127770678678802430

Donation:

https://proanimal.org/donation/

Denver Ballot Initiative: Vote Yes on 309!

https://proanimal.org/campaigns/denver-slaughterhouse-ban/  

Denver Ballot Initiative: Vote Yes on 308!

https://proanimal.org/campaigns/denver-fur-ban-308/ 

(More links below.)

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

—

Chapters:

Chapter 1) 00:00-18:39 Intro, Denver Slaughterhouse Ban ballot initiative & Denver Fur Ban ballot initiative voting on November 5th, Democratic Party politics in Denver, & media publishing lies about the ban & activists

Chapter 2) 18:40-29:12 Activists & the media, centering the cruelty against animals during the ballot initiative campaigns, & handling with lies/personal attacks

Chapter 3) 29:13-40:14 Disillusionment with the Democratic Party & learning during the Denver Ballot Initiative campaigns

Chapter 4) 40:15-45:59 how some activists “support” Tr*mp, how the American Constitution should be changed with each generation, & how electoral college voting should change

Chapter 5) 46:00-1:01:39 Enforcing the laws we have, the “what if it were dogs” argument, how individuals/organizations speak against animal rights, & on climate change & transportation

Chapter 6) 1:01:40-1:06:52 On politics of both parties & the political system, phone bank for the Denver Slaughterhouse Ban at proanimal.org/phonebank, & vote on November 5th

Chapter 7) 1:06:53-1:07:09 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Joe Allman, Adam Durand, Chloe Leffakis, & Jeremy Loeb

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Follow Pro-Animal Future:

https://ProAnimalFuture.org

https://www.instagram.com/proanimalfuture/

Follow Natalie Fulton:

www.youtube.com/@Natalie.Fulton 

patreon.com/nataliefulton 

https://nataliefulton.substack.com/ 

https://www.instagram.com/nattiefulton/ 

https://www.tiktok.com/@nattiefulton 

https://www.threads.net/@nattiefulton 

https://www.facebook.com/nataliefu26  

—Books/articles mentioned:“A ‘war on factory farming’ begins with proposed Denver slaughterhouse ban, and immigrant workers may be the first casualties” by Kyle Harris

https://denverite.com/2024/10/24/denver-measure-109-immigrant-workers-vegan-activists/ 

NPR/PBS: “Denver voters prepare to decide the fate of the city’s only slaughterhouse” by Andrea Kramar

https://www.rmpbs.org/blogs/election-2024/denver-slaughterhouse-309 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DBj7t4ITDdh/?img_index=1 

Ranked-choice voting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked-choice_voting_in_the_United_States 

National Popular Vote Interstate Compact:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact 

Science magazine: “Exceeding 1.5°C global warming could trigger multiple climate tipping points”

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abn7950 

PNAS: “The global biomass of wild mammals” 

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2204892120 

“5 Types of People Who Can Ruin Your Life: Identifying and Dealing with Narcissists, Sociopaths, and Other High-Conflict Personalities” by Bill Eddy

“Conflict Is Not Abuse: Overstating Harm, Community Responsibility, and the Duty of Repair” by Sarah Schulman

“The Gift of Fear: Survival Signals That Protect Us from Violence” by Gavin de Becker

Five takeaways from the dramatic evidentiary hearing that happened this week in our attempt to appoint a special prosecutor to charge Ridglan Farms with animal cruelty.

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

Chapter 1) 00:00-7:07 The First Takeaway from the October 23rd Evidentiary Hearing to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate Ridglan Farms in Wisconsin: powerful testimony from whistleblowers that worked at Ridglan Farms

Chapter 2) 7:08-10:09 The Second Takeaway: informative testimony from many experts on dogs about normal/abnormal behavior & living conditions

Chapter 3) 10:10-14:19 The Third Takeaway: the state & federal government have repeatedly failed to enforce animal cruelty laws against Ridglan Farms

Chapter 4) 14:20-15:56 The Fourth Takeaway: Wayne’s testimony about investigating Ridglan Farms & rescuing Julie from Ridglan Farms in 2017 

Chapter 5) 15:57-17:53 The Fifth Takeaway: the judge is taking this case seriously, you can take action to help protect the dogs at Ridglan Farms at https://www.simpleheart.org/ridglan, & thank you all for the amazing support! 

Chapter 6) 17:54- 18:09 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Joe Allman, Adam Durand, & Chloe Leffakis

Trump and Harris both support the mass killing of dogs. But there’s an effective science-based strategy for getting them – and all the other political elites – to change

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Sign up to join the Ridglan Case Support chat (& find link to sample social media posts for 10/23):

https://www.simpleheart.org/ridglan

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

—

Chapters:

Chapter 1) 00:00-4:18 Intro: feeling the pressure of the Ridglan Evidentiary hearing on 10/23, the evidence to be presented, authorities not protecting dogs, & the political bipartisan consensus on dogs

Chapter 2) 4:19-13:23 Government funding useless lab experiments on dogs & why politicians don’t create change

Chapter 3) 13:23-21:54 How movements can create power & change

Chapter 4) 21:55-27:09 How to convince politicians to stop the mass killing of dogs, & how you can help save the dogs at Ridglan Farms (https://www.simpleheart.org/ridglan)

Chapter 5) 27:10-27:26 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Joe Allman, Adam Durand, & Chloe Leffakis

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Follow Wayne & Dane4Dogs

IG: https://www.instagram.com/waynehhsiung/ 

XTwitter: https://x.com/waynehhsiung 

IG: https://www.instagram.com/dane4dogs/ 

FB: https://www.facebook.com/Dane4Dogs

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Previous podcast episodes mentioned:“Can We Rescue 60,000 Tortured Dogs? (Episode 16)”https://youtu.be/z1t_J9hMuaw 

“Duncan Watts - It’s A ‘Small World’ After All”

https://www.simpleheart.org/episodes/duncan-watts 

“He Wants To Argue About Gaza. Here’s Why We Shouldn’t. (w/ Richard Burgess, aka Vegan Gains) (Ep.46)”

https://youtu.be/HAMBNYvmO3Q?si=5IUYvpIHguotlnPC 

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The Simple Heart Substack blog posts mentioned:

“How To Stop Trump From Killing Dogs”

https://blog.simpleheart.org/p/how-to-stop-trump-from-killing-dogs 

“The Government Cover-Up of the Torture of 60,000 Dogs”https://blog.simpleheart.org/p/the-government-cover-up-of-the-torture 

“Why cover-ups backfire”

https://blog.simpleheart.org/p/why-cover-ups-backfire 

“How the Average Inmate Can Be More Influential than Oprah”

https://blog.simpleheart.org/p/how-the-average-inmate-can-be-more 

“How to find community in a disconnected world”

https://blog.simpleheart.org/p/how-to-find-community-in-a-disconnected 

Books/Articles Mentioned:

“Change: How to Make Big Things Happen” by Damon Centola

"Collective dynamics of 'small-world' networks" by Damon Centola & Steven H. Strogatz (Nature, 1998)

https://www.nature.com/articles/30918 (Abstract of article)

Has Vegan Gains gone intersectional?

Richard and I discuss the merits of bringing multiple causes – from #MeToo to #FreePalestine – under the banner of a single social movement.

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Follow Vegan Gains

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vegangains.real/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@VeganGains

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VeganGainsOfficial 

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

—

Chapters:

Chapter 1) 00:00-10:17 Intro, opinions on current issues, & outcomes of disruptions

Chapter 2) 10:18-29:03 Wayne confronts Richard about intersectionality

Chapter 3) 29:04-58:21 Richard response & violent vs nonviolent resistance movements 

Chapter 4) 58:22-1:06:44 Purity tests of being in the vegan/animal rights movement

Chapter 5) 1:06:45-1:26:52 Wayne’s advice to Richard, Richard on vegan intersectionalists, & not banning people from the movement

Chapter 6) 1:26:53-1:39:50 Nations/state systemic violence against animals & hate speech vs disagreements

Chapter 7) 1:39:51-1:44:30 Final thoughts: how Wayne & Richard agree/disagree, & future podcasts guests & discussions

Chapter 8) 1:44:31-1:44:47 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Joe Allman, Adam Durand, & Chloe Leffakis

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 Books mentioned:

“Civil Resistance: What Everyone Needs to Know” by Erica Chenoweth

https://www.ericachenoweth.com/research/civil-resistance-what-everyone-needs-to-know 

“The Path of Most Resistance: A Step-by-Step Guide to Planning Nonviolent Campaigns” By Ivan Marovic

https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/resource/path-resistance-step-step-guide-planning-nonviolent-campaigns/ 

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Movies mentioned:

Joker (2019)

Joker: Folie à Deux (2024)

A ban on animal slaughter is on the ballot in Denver. And the fiercest opposition is coming from… the Democratic Party.

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Learn more at https://proanimal.org/ about the Denver ballot initiatives!

Denver: Vote Yes on 309: https://proanimal.org/campaigns/denver-slaughterhouse-ban/  

Denver: Vote Yes on 308: https://proanimal.org/campaigns/denver-fur-ban-308/ 

Follow Aidan (more links below)

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/proanimalaidan/ 

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

—

Chapters:

Chapter 1) 00:00-12:39 Intro, Aidan of Pax Fauna, Denver slaughterhouse ban ballot initiative, effective altruism, learning how to be an organizer, & thoughts on activist Roger Hallam

Chapter 2) 12:40-27:54 Learning from Extinction Rebellion in the UK in 2019, activism during the pandemic, research with Pax Fauna, & outreach about animals

Chapter 3) 27:55-41:17 Explaining system change to the public & more on the Denver slaughterhouse ban ballot initiative

Chapter 4) 41:18-54:55 Climate change, voting, fur banning legislation, & ballot initiative campaign fundraising comparison

Chapter 5) 54:56-1:04:38 October 9th release of investigation footage from Superior Farms slaughterhouse, emotional impacts of violence against animal, negative media coverage of both ballot measures, political opposition & endorsement of both slaughterhouse ban/fur ban ballot measures

Chapter 6) 1:04:39-1:21:31 ICYMI: Aidan’s disruption of a panel with Kamala Harris during ALC 2019, Kamala as a prosecutor/district attorney/attorney general, & mass incarceration in the United States

Chapter 7) 1:21:32-1:41:29 Kamala & other politicians on animal rights, Aidan’s first time in jail after 2016 disruption, democratic response to Denver slaughterhouse ban ballot initiative, information about Wayne’s mayoral campaign in 2020, how political power is being used, & the values of politicians

Chapter 8) 1:41:30-1:50:20 Ballot initiative campaigns in Sonoma County and Denver, & on democracy in public and behind closed doors

Chapter 9) 1:50:21-2:00:15 Aidan on victories & lessons of the Denver ballot initiatives, & final thoughts

Chapter 10) 2:00:16-2:00:32 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Joe Allman, Adam Durand, & Chloe Leffakis

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Follow Aidan

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/aidan.cook.378 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/proanimalaidan/ 

XTwitter: https://x.com/leavemeatbehind 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aidan-kankyoku-6a03b322b/ 

Follow Pax Fauna

Email: [email protected] 

Website: https://www.paxfauna.org 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PaxFauna 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paxfauna/ 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@paxfauna1360 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pax-fauna/posts/?feedView=all 

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Books/Articles Mentioned:

“Humanity” by Jonathan Glover

“Animal Rights Protester Grabs Microphone From Kamala Harris” by Katy McNally (June 4, 2019)

https://sentientmedia.org/animal-rights-protester-interrupted-kamala-harris-was-it-justified/ 

“Why I Took the Mic from Kamala Harris” by Aidan Cook (June 5, 2019)

https://medium.com/@aidan_28588/why-i-took-the-mic-from-kamala-harris-d9e87fe2d2c0 

Statement released by DxE  (June 2019):

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14dO4FHqHL4f6btUSG4YjiAjzsHaDyuSg3O4t3VCtGl8/edit?tab=t.0  

“Why Nations Fail” by Daron Acemoglu & James A. Robinson

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Movies mentioned:

“The Shawshank Redemption” (1994)