This episode handles the subject of baby loss.  

On the last episode of the series, we share our guests’ hopes for the future, and Caroline and Jen reflect on their hopes, too. 

From opening up the conversation, and helping families grow around their grief, to building on an open, learning culture, and saving babies’ lives, there are so many hopes shared.  

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Sands is here to support anyone affected by pregnancy loss or the death of a baby, whenever and however they need it. You can get support from thesupport pages of our website , by joining our online community or by joining our facebook support group or facebook support group for Dads

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Sands saves babies’ lives and supports bereaved families. To learn more about Sands, visit our website or find us on facebook , Instagram and Twitter

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Voices of Baby Loss is produced by Under The Mast , creative audio productions 

his episode handles the subject of baby loss, bereavement, and grief.  

On this week’s episode, we hear about the importance of good bereavement care, the support healthcare professionals need from organisations like Sands, and the difference this all makes to bereaved families in caring for them. 

Our first guest is Marc Harder, Head of Bereavement Care and Hospital Liaison at Sands. He explains what we mean by bereavement care, and explains all about the National Bereavement Care Pathway (NBCP). 

Listen in to learn more about how the National Bereavement Care Pathway began, how it’s evolved and the plans to develop it across the UK Nations. 

Marc, Jen and Caroline also talk about how the memory boxes Sands provide can help newly bereaved parents make memories – and how healthcare professionals can use this as a tool and process for opening a conversation. 

We hear from Monica, a bereavement midwife from Frimley Health Foundation Trust about what a specialist bereavement care midwife does to support bereaved families and train other midwives. 

And lastly we talk to Benash Nazmeen, Assistant Professor in Midwifery at Bradford University about the impact reflections have on improving practice in healthcare, and about the impacts of baby loss in underrepresented communities. 

Useful links 

To learn more about the National Bereavement Care Pathway in England, visit https://nbcpathway.org.uk/ 

To learn more about the programme in Scotland, visit https://www.nbcpscotland.org.uk/ 

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Sands is here to support anyone affected by pregnancy loss or the death of a baby, whenever and however they need it. You can get support from thesupport pages of our website , by joining our online community or by joining our facebook support group or facebook support group for Dads

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Sands saves babies’ lives and supports bereaved families. To learn more about Sands, visit our website or find us on facebook , Instagram and Twitter

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Voices of Baby Loss is produced by Under The Mast , creative audio productions 

This episode shares stories of grief from a bereaved parent and handles the subject of baby loss, bereavement, and grief.  

On this week’s podcast, Jen and Caroline discuss the importance of creating space for parents’ voices to be heard and how we can create a just culture. 

The first guest in this episode is Clea Harmer, CEO of Sands. She talks to the podcast hosts about vital importance of healthcare professionals being able to say “sorry” to parents and why healthcare professionals need to acknowledge when something goes wrong so that they can work together with colleagues to ensure that mistakes are learnt from and not repeated.  

Clea also talks about the work that Sands does to save babies’ lives and how listening to the experiences of bereaved parents is central to this work. Listening to parents and acting on their concerns is key to improving the safety of maternity services, as has been highlighted in both the East Kent and Ockenden reviews. 

Jen and Caroline also speak to bereaved father, Vijay, who sadly lost his baby son Joshan in 2019. He talks about the experiences of care that he and his wife, Bhavna, received in hospital. He talks about the complexities of Joshan’s birth and how there was a lack of communication and equipment at the hospital which contributed to Joshan’s death. Vijay then felt he was left in the dark, with a lack of information about what happened during the birth. He had to wait three years for the result of the inquest into Joshan’s death. He reflects upon the impact this had had upon his family and his hope that lessons will be learnt for the future.  

Useful links 

To read the East Kent report, visit Maternity and neonatal services in East Kent: 'Reading the signals' report - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk) 

To read the Ockenden report, visit Final report of the Ockenden review - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk) 

Sands offers support groups specifically for men. To join, visit facebook.com/groups/sandssupportfordads 

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Sands is here to support anyone affected by pregnancy loss or the death of a baby, whenever and however they need it. You can get support from thesupport pages of our website , by joining our online community or by joining our facebook support group or facebook support group for Dads

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Sands saves babies’ lives and supports bereaved families. To learn more about Sands, visit our website or find us on facebook , Instagram and Twitter

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Voices of Baby Loss is produced by Under The Mast , creative audio productions 

This episode shares stories from bereaved parents and handles the subject of baby loss, investigation and learning .  

This week we focus on how understanding why their baby has died is so important to parents. This can happen through a hospital review of their care to understand events leading up to their baby’s death. We focus particularly on how important parents’ perspectives of their care is essential to the  review process. 

1 in 150 births ends in the death of a baby either before, during or shortly after birth in the UK. That’s 13 babies a day. These deaths always trigger a hospital review but also sometimes an independent investigation. This  is so parents and healthcare professionals can understand events leading up to the baby’s death. For parents, this is the narrative of their baby’s short life and for them and healthcare professionals there is also the issue of whether the death was potentially avoidable. If a baby’s death might have been prevented with better care, then there are vital  lessons to learn about how to make care safer for other families and save babies’ lives in future. 

We speak to Charlotte Bevan, joint Head of the Saving Babies’ Lives team at Sands, which focuses on supporting research, highlighting issues around avoidable baby deaths and making maternity care safer. She talks about what a review process following the death of a baby is, and how the lessons from reviews and investigations can improve care for families in the future. Charlotte talks about the research Sands is involved in ensuring reviews are fit for purpose, including how parents are involved in the review process into their own baby’s death. 

She shares how vital it is to ensure all parents are given the opportunity to contribute to the review process into their baby’s death, as well as be part of research, regardless of their race, culture and socio-economic background. 

We hear from Nick, who shares his story of losing Barney, his first child, just as Covid-19 was emerging as a global pandemic. He talks about how he felt being a father at this challenging time in the maternity ward, how his wife Gemma’s care was handled, and how the independent review into Barney’s death identified missed opportunities during Gemma’s labour to save his life.  

Nick shares how he wanted Barney’s legacy to help make sure other parents and families did not find themselves in the same tragic situation that they found themselves in. He gives his advice to other parents going through reviews or investigations, and what it has been like for him and Gemma to get the final report back on what happened when Barney died. He also talks about the DISCERN study he has been a part of – a study aimed at understanding parents’ and healthcare professionals’ experiences of review and investigation processes when things go wrong in the NHS.  

Useful links  

To hear more from parents’ own experiences of the review process, read our ‘In their own words’ report: In their own words - Parents' experiences of review | Sands - Saving babies' lives. Supporting bereaved families. 

To watch our animation about how to involve parents in the review of their baby’s death visit: A Unique Perspective - Engaging Parents in Review - YouTube 

To learn more about reviews and investigations when a baby dies, visit: https://www.sands.org.uk/support-you/understanding-why-your-baby-died/reviews-and-investigations   

To learn more about the Perinatal Mortality Review Tool (PMRT), the standard UK process for reviewing a baby’s death, visit: https://www.sands.org.uk/pmrt  

To learn more about the DISCERN study, visit: https://www.sands.org.uk/our-work/research/studies-we-fund/discern-study 

For information, advice and guidance to help you stay safer during pregnancy, visit: https://saferpregnancy.org.uk/ 

To understand more about the research Sands is involved in, visit sands.org.uk/research 

You can also follow @SandsInsights on Twitter to learn more about our research, policy and campaigns and professional support work. 

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Sands is here to support anyone affected by pregnancy loss or the death of a baby, whenever and however they need it. You can get support from thesupport pages of our website , by joining our online community or by joining our facebook support group or facebook support group for Dads

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Sands saves babies’ lives and supports bereaved families. To learn more about Sands, visit our website or find us on facebook , Instagram and Twitter

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Voices of Baby Loss is produced by Under The Mast , creative audio productions 

This episode shares stories from bereaved parents and handles the subject of baby loss, bereavement and grief. 

This week focuses in on men’s mental health. Jen and Caroline speak to Dr David Hall, who lost his son Rory 26 years ago and is a consultant psychiatrist. David shares very openly about his experience of losing Rory, and how it has impacted him and his wife, Alison. They talk about grief over time, how it has changed but never left him, and how it’s helped David in empathising with others.

They discuss some of the differences that can be present between how men and women process grief, and the different needs felt by men to process their feelings and emotions. David, Jen and Caroline talk about the outlets that Sands provides to support men, from Sands United to online forums and Facebook groups for men, to local support walks doing activities in the company of other men.

Peter, Sands United Wellbeing Coordinator, talks about how Sands United provided support for him when he lost his son Thomas, and how players support one another before, during and after the matches.

Useful links 

Sands offers support groups specifically for men. To join, visit facebook.com/groups/sandssupportfordads

To learn more about Sands United and seek support through football, visit https://sands.org.uk/get-involved/sands-united-fc

To find your local Sands group, visit https://www.sands.org.uk/support-you/how-we-offer-support/sands-groups

If you’d like to look after your wellbeing and support Sands through fundraising, take a look and sign up for one of our upcoming challenges: https://sands.org.uk/get-involved

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Sands is here to support anyone affected by pregnancy loss or the death of a baby, whenever and however they need it. You can get support from thesupport pages of our website , by joining our online community or by joining our facebook support group or facebook support group for Dads

--- 

Sands saves babies’ lives and supports bereaved families. To learn more about Sands, visit our website or find us on facebook , Instagram and Twitter

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Voices of Baby Loss is produced by Under The Mast , creative audio productions 

This episode shares stories from bereaved parents and siblings and handles the subject of baby loss, bereavement and grief. 

This week Jen and Caroline discuss how best to support siblings after loss. They discuss tools to help you have conversations with siblings who were expecting to have a brother or sister as well as for siblings that arrive after loss.  

The first guest in this episode is Emma Poore. After losing her daughter Lydie, Emma faced the reality of breaking this heart-wrenching news to her nearly four year old son George and then later to her youngest son Henry. Whilst looking for support for her children she found herself writing “Where are you Lydie?”, a special picture book for children aged between three and seven years old. It is a facilitative story and guide for young bereaved siblings and their parents to explore death and bereavement together and to start difficult conversations or explore the questions that may come up after the death of a baby.  

Jen and Caroline also speak to Nihal who is 16 years old and the middle child and only living child of Madhuri and Sunil.  Nihal was born in February 2006, three years after his older brother Vishaal passed away, a day into his precious life. Nihal was then only two years old when his parents had to explain to him that the sister he was looking forward to welcoming into the world had instead joined his older brother in Heaven. Despite not having met Vishaal and Rehna, Nihal loves them and holds them very close to his heart. He has never shied away from speaking about them nor the love he holds for them, or sadly, the precious moments and memories he has missed out on and will continue to miss out on throughout his years.   

Jen and Caroline's final guest is Christopher, who grew up in a family of five but he always knew it was a family of six as his eldest brother Jason died before Christopher was born. Christopher is now the Scotland Network Coordinator for Sands and is married with his own children. He talks about how his feelings towards his brother have changed over the years and how the birth of his daughter made the loss of his brother more real.

Useful links 

To get support on helping siblings come to terms with the death of a child and to download free workbooks and memory making kits visit: https://www.sands.org.uk/support-you/how-we-offer-support/support-siblings

To find out more about the children's book 'Where are you Lydie' visit: https://www.emmapoore.co.uk/where-are-you-lydie

The 'In the Stars' animation can be viewed on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7C_UVewPU8

A copy of the book can be purchased on https://shop.sands.org.uk/en/products/books/in-the-stars

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Sands is here to support anyone affected by pregnancy loss or the death of a baby, whenever and however they need it. You can get support from thesupport pages of our website , by joining our online community or by joining our facebook support group or facebook support group for Dads

--- 

Sands saves babies’ lives and supports bereaved families. To learn more about Sands, visit our website or find us on facebook , Instagram and Twitter

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Voices of Baby Loss is produced by Under The Mast , creative audio productions 

This episode shares stories from bereaved parents and handles the subject of baby loss, bereavement and grief. 

This week Jen and Caroline discuss their experience of returning to work after loss. They discuss tools for coping as well as how to ask for what you need when returning to work.  

Clare Worgan Head of Training and Education at Sands, talks about how her role involves researching and training individuals and professionals. A survey in 2018 which found 50% of employees felt unsupported, showed a gap in education for line managers and employers to be able to create a supportive workplace. Clare shares the benefits of the Sands Bereavement in the Workplace training, provides some useful ‘things to say’ to those returning to work and explains what good support looks like. 

Jen and Caroline also speak to Nicola Evans, a Senior Auditor for NatWest Group and the co-chair of the Fertility & Loss employee-led network. Nikki talks about the experience of losing her baby Jane, and how she had a lack of support when she returned to work. Nikki also talks about the relationship between Sands and NatWest Group which partner up every year for Baby Loss Awareness Week. Nicola talks about how important the network is for the organisation and the work NatWest group do to support their employees.  

This episode has been supported by NatWest.  

Useful links 

To learn more about Bereavement in the Workplace training, visit training.sands.org.uk/bereavement-in-the-workplace/ 

To learn more about NatWest Group, visit https://www.natwestgroup.com/ 

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Sands is here to support anyone affected by pregnancy loss or the death of a baby, whenever and however they need it. You can get support from thesupport pages of our website , by joining our online community or by joining our facebook support group or facebook support group for Dads

--- 

Sands saves babies’ lives and supports bereaved families. To learn more about Sands, visit our website or find us on facebook , Instagram and Twitter

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Voices of Baby Loss is produced by Under The Mast , creative audio productions 

This episode shares stories from bereaved parents and handles the subject of baby loss, bereavement and grief. 

This episode is the second part of episode 5, 'Supporting both parents’. In this episode, Caroline and Jen speak to Chey whose son Magnus died 3 days before her partner was due to be induced. Her partner had gone to hospital concerned about a lack of movement and there they were given the devastating news that his heart had stopped beating.

Chey talks about the support she received from friends and colleagues as well as Sands and what she and her partner did and continue to do to work through their feelings and deal with their grief.

Useful links 

To find your local Sands group, visit https://www.sands.org.uk/support/how-we-offer-support/sands-groups/nearest

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Sands is here to support anyone affected by pregnancy loss or the death of a baby, whenever and however they need it. You can get support from thesupport pages of our website , by joining our online community or by joining our facebook support group or facebook support group for Dads

--- 

Sands saves babies’ lives and supports bereaved families. To learn more about Sands, visit our website or find us on facebook , Instagram and Twitter

---

Voices of Baby Loss is produced by Under The Mast , creative audio productions 

This episode shares stories from bereaved parents and handles the subject of baby loss, bereavement and grief. 

In this episode, Caroline and Jen had intended to speak to both Pete and Chey but their their chats with them were so poignant that they decided to split the episode into two parts to give both Pete and Chey more room to tell their stories. This week we hear from Pete who lost his first son Thomas in January 2004. Peter felt for years that support wasn’t out there for him – feeling lost and isolated. He didn’t want to be the only bloke in the room crying at a support meeting. That all changed after he took part in the Bristol 10k in May 2018 to raise money for Bristol Sands.

After reading a comment on the group facebook page from the event later that night he realised he needed to look for support. A few weeks later he went to his first support meeting and shortly after joined the Bristol Sands committee. Just over 6 months later, after discovering Sands United he founded the Sands United Bristol football club and shortly after became a befriender for Sands – offering peer support at meetings. 

They also share some of the ways in which Sands can support parents’ wellbeing, through their Bereavement Support Services team and through virtual fundraising challenges. 

Useful links 

To find a Sands virtual fundraising challenge as another way to support your own wellbeing, visit https://www.sands.org.uk/get-involved  

To find out more about Sands United, visit https://www.sands.org.uk/get-involved/sands-united-fc

For more information on becoming a Sands befriender, visit https://www.sands.org.uk/get-involved/volunteer-sands/sands-befrienders

To find your local Sands group, visit https://www.sands.org.uk/support/how-we-offer-support/sands-groups/nearest

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Sands is here to support anyone affected by pregnancy loss or the death of a baby, whenever and however they need it. You can get support from thesupport pages of our website , by joining our online community or by joining our facebook support group or facebook support group for Dads

--- 

Sands saves babies’ lives and supports bereaved families. To learn more about Sands, visit our website or find us on facebook , Instagram and Twitter

---

Voices of Baby Loss is produced by Under The Mast , creative audio productions 

This episode shares stories from bereaved parents and handles the subject of baby loss, bereavement and grief. 

Following the incredible support and work done to raise awareness of pregnancy and baby loss throughout Baby Loss Awareness Week, Caroline and Jen discuss wellbeing and tips on how to take care of yourself. They share some small things we can do to prioritise self-care, and simply acknowledge the amount that bereaved parents are carrying. 

They also speak to Lucy Livesey, an occupational health nurse about supporting bereaved parents to deliver their babies through hypnobirthing. 

Lucy lost her daughter Ellie at just under 24 weeks, when she found out Ellie’s heart hadn’t formed properly and made the difficult decision to terminate for medical reasons. She decided to have a hypnobirthing experience to deliver Ellie, and to provide some comfort to her and her husband. 

Lucy went on to train as a hypnobirthing teacher and teach parents how to work with their bodies and manage their wellbeing, setting up Relax with Lucy & Co.  Since then, she’s set up The Ellie’s Gift Project and app to help the baby loss community through mindfulness and relaxation interventions. 

They also share some of the ways in which Sands can support parents’ wellbeing, through their Bereavement Support Services team and through virtual fundraising challenges. 

Useful links 

To learn more about Relax with Lucy & Co and Ellie’s Gift Project, visit www.relaxwithlucy.co.uk 

To learn more about Baby Loss Awareness Week, visit Babyloss-awareness.org  

To find a Sands virtual fundraising challenge as another way to support your own wellbeing, visit https://www.sands.org.uk/get-involved  

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Sands is here to support anyone affected by pregnancy loss or the death of a baby, whenever and however they need it. You can get support from thesupport pages of our website , by joining our online community or by joining our facebook support group or facebook support group for Dads

--- 

Sands saves babies’ lives and supports bereaved families. To learn more about Sands, visit our website or find us on facebook , Instagram and Twitter

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Voices of Baby Loss is produced by Under The Mast , creative audio productions