Was It Something I Read?

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Summary

In this difficult and sobering episode, we look at a range of ancient – and not-so-ancient – war practices that were common in the Ancient Near East. But though we talk about what these horrific practices entailed (we hope, in ways that are not unnecessarily gruesome), what’s most interesting is in their connection with scripture. While scripture is aware of all these practices, biblical law disallowed virtually all of them. We begin to talk about the ultimate justice of God, which is a subject we will take up more in future episodes. And we start to ask uncomfortable questions about whether war practices have actually changed that much.

Notes

1) Further on the subject of forced stripping, Dr David Tombs has done extensive work on sexual violence in the context of torture and terror, focusing recently on Jesus as a victim of sexual humiliation/violence:

Reaves, J. R., Tombs, D., & Figueroa, R. (Eds.). When did we see you naked? Jesus as a victim of sexual abuse. London: SCM Press, 2021.

Tombs, D. The crucifixion of Jesus: Torture, sexual abuse, and the scandal of the cross. Abingdon: Routledge, 2023. doi: 10.4324/9780429289750 (available free online from publisher)

He also presented many of these thoughts as part of this recent CSBV webinar: Unspeakable: Preaching and Trauma-Informed Theology. Lent Book Club

2) Webb and Oeste refer in Chapter 13, footnote 34, to a Babylonian lament that recoils from the ripping of pregnant women, English text of which may be found in Shalom M. Paul, Amos, Hermeneia. Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 1991, p. 68.

3) Imprecatory (cursing) psalms are a cry of the powerless for justice, and for God to act in ways that those who have been abused cannot. A recent CSBV webinar may be of interest: Cursing with God: The Imprecatory Psalms and the Ethics of Christian Prayer. Lent Book Club

4) The Toronto Star article on war rape in Ukraine that Kate referenced: https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2023/01/25/it-is-clearly-a-strategy-the-truth-is-emerging-about-russias-use-of-rape-in-the-war-on-ukraine.html

5) On issues of trauma carried in the body, see van der Kolk, B. The Body Keeps the Score. New York: Penguin Books, 2014.

6) If you are interested in issues of Palestinian oppression and the misuse of scripture to provide the theological underpinnings for that oppression, check out this webinar with CSBV, and also our upcoming conference:

The Other Side of the Wall: A Palestinian Christian Narrative of Lament and Hope. Lent Book Club.

https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/annual-conference-2023/

7) Our thanks and appreciation to our partners:

A production of the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence.

https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/

Podcast cover art by Studio of Broken Things

https://www.facebook.com/ISA4048

Intro music "Br1ghter" by Tape Machines (feat. Le June & Nbhd Nick)

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Summary

In this episode, we dive into how Webb and Oeste explain the relationship between the "drive out" and "total kill" instructions in Scripture. We see that it doesn’t make sense for them to be two words for the same thing, but they are related. They actually function as two means to the same end, and we'll discuss how the authors develop this idea of "shared-goal equivalency." 

This conversation led us to talk about God's mercy and patience, and to re-evaluate whether we tell and apply these stories in a way that truly reflects God's tone.

Notes

Our thanks and appreciation to our partners:

A production of the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence.

https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/

Podcast cover art by Studio of Broken Things

https://www.facebook.com/ISA4048

Intro music "Br1ghter" by Tape Machines (feat. Le June & Nbhd Nick)

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Summary

While Bloody, Brutal, and Barbaric? is about the Canaanite conquest, as we read the chapter on Saul and the Amalekites, we couldn’t help but notice how strongly it is highlighted that Saul is an unfit leader, who cares about his own glory and position, far more than he cares about obedience to God. Perhaps it is the current reckoning in which much of the evangelical church finds itself, but we felt we’d be remiss if we didn’t stop and consider how this Old Testament text so encourages us to think through this relevant issue.

Notes

1) Listeners who want to look further into issues of power abuse in the church may be interested in some of the following resources:

Glen Scrivener’s material on abuse in the church following the Ravi Zacharias scandal: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4zD5797LHdeSKbVtM7_AzOO-4miUyRQo

Roys Report https://julieroys.com/podcast/

CT on John MacArthur https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2023/february/grace-community-church-elder-biblical-counseling-abuse.html

Rise and Fall of Mars Hill https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/rise-and-fall-of-mars-hill/

Bodies Behind the Bus https://open.spotify.com/show/10b0rbS8MNB7UjNIlWUAmf

Dangerous Calling by Paul David Tripp https://www.amazon.ca/Dangerous-Calling-Confronting-Challenges-Pastoral/dp/1433541378/

2) We can be contacted on social media

Twitter: @wisirpod
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100089794804928
Instagram: @was.it.something.i.read

3) Our thanks and appreciation to our partners:

A production of the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence.
https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/


Podcast cover art by Studio of Broken Things
https://www.facebook.com/ISA4048


Intro music "Br1ghter" by Tape Machines (feat. Le June & Nbhd Nick)

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Summary

In a slightly short episode, we talk about 1 Samuel 15, and some of the ways in which it seems, at first glance, to be a challenge to Webb and Oeste’s suggestion that hyperbole is an extensive part of how war instructions are given and carried out in Israel. What becomes apparent is that hyperbole is most definitely in use in that text, also, and we consider what that means, and what the author of Samuel intends for the readers to hear.

And since the subject and tone of this episode was less intense, we left in a few of our funnier flubs. This might be an intense and weighty book, but we have a great time together.

Notes

1) We briefly mention the Battle of Qarqar in this episode, the largest battle to that point in the ancient world, which happened during the reign of (and was participated in by) the Israelite King Ahab. Interestingly, this massive battle is not mentioned in the Bible. Listeners who would like to go further down the rabbit hole on this battle’s conspicuous absence from scripture may be interested in this blogpost from the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence:

https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/2020/11/23/what-the-biblical-authors-skipped/


2) Our thanks and appreciation to our partners:

A production of the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence.
https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/


Podcast cover art by Studio of Broken Things
https://www.facebook.com/ISA4048


Intro music "Br1ghter" by Tape Machines (feat. Le June & Nbhd Nick)

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Summary

In this episode, we talk through chapters 8-10 of Bloody, Brutal, and Barbaric?, which address the use of hyperbole in the conquest narratives, and addresses some of the arguments against hyperbole. We talk about reading the bible seriously, the appeal of “literal,” and how literalism creates more problems than it solves. We also discuss different sorts of hyperbole that were frequently employed in the Ancient Near East, most of which also occur in scripture, and where scripture is similar to and different from the accounts of the surrounding nations.


Notes

Our thanks and appreciation to our partners:

This podcast is a production of the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence.
https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/


Podcast cover art by Studio of Broken Things
https://www.facebook.com/ISA4048


Intro music "Br1ghter" by Tape Machines, Le June, Nbhd Nick

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Summary

In an equally difficult second part to our conversation on war rape, we begin to unpack what Ancient Near Eastern war practices looked like with regards to enemy women, in order to understand how the law in Deuteronomy 21:10-14 makes improvements. Though the specifics of the law remain reprehensible to our current values, it does become evident that in ancient Israel, even captive brides are given a level of status and consideration that is completely unprecedented in the ancient world.

Notes

1) Helen Paynter’s book The Bible Doesn’t Tell Me So https://www.amazon.ca/Bible-Doesnt-Tell-Me-So/dp/0857469894/

2) Helen Paynter’s 2018 Whitley Lecture Dead and Buried?: attending to the voices of the victim in the Old Testament and today available:

 Whitley Lecture

3) Ashley Hibbard’s seminar “By Faith, They Still Speak” at the Stoney Creek Church of Christ weekend “Keep Listening: Hearing Victims’ Voices” (audio improves dramatically about two minutes in!)

 "By Faith They Still Speak" -- Keep Listening Seminar, October, 2021

4) Our thanks and appreciation to our partners:

This podcast is a production of the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence.

https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/

Podcast cover art by Studio of Broken Things

https://www.facebook.com/ISA4048

Intro music "Br1ghter" by Tape Machines, Le June, Nbhd Nick

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Summary

In part one of this very uncomfortable episode, we try to think through the issue of forced marriage and war rape as addressed in Deuteronomy 21:10-14. We wrestle with our disgust for the practice, trying to see it through both our modern understanding of issues of power imbalance and consent, and also how it might have been understood by the first readers as an improvement on standard ancient war practice. Finally, we consider how this might inform our ethical positions.

Notes

1) Story as Torah by Gordon Wenham:

https://www.amazon.ca/Story-Torah-Testament-Narrative-Ethically/dp/0801027837

2) Our thanks and appreciation to our partners:

This podcast is a production of the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence.

https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/

Podcast cover art by Studio of Broken Things

https://www.facebook.com/ISA4048

Intro music "Br1ghter" by Tape Machines, Le June, Nbhd Nick

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Summary

Carrying on from the prior episode, we continue to talk about divine purpose and human failings, messy toddlers, and the sometimes painful results and moral grey areas wrought by the actions of humans who are in process. An interesting conversation about non-combatant innocents and theological innocence leads to questions about unintentional category shifts in scholarship, and raises (though doesn’t explore!) questions about the differing Calvinist/Arminian perspectives on guilt and innocence. We conclude with a reflection on evil and suffering, and Kate reminds us that the scales of goodness and justice will yet be balanced by the God who is making all things new.

Credits

Our thanks and appreciation to our partners:

This podcast is a production of the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence.

https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/

Podcast cover art by Studio of Broken Things

https://www.facebook.com/ISA4048

Intro music "Br1ghter" by Tape Machines, Le June, Nbhd Nick

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Summary

With less awkwardness and a little more laughter, we talk about chapters 2-4 of Bloody, Brutal, and Barbaric. We think about the trouble with traditional answers to the Canaanite conquest and the importance of perspective. Patterns in scripture, such as the concern for sacred space and literal and figurative Canaanites, help to provide a framework for a redemptive reading of scripture. We also have good conversations about our perspectives of God, and where they might be insufficient.

Notes

1) This is a condensed version of Louie Giglio’s “all creation worships” sermon that Kate mentioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=helxFeG-0n0

2) CSBV director Dr Helen Paynter’s article on Jesus’ victory over evil paralleling Israel’s victory over the Canaanites:

Paynter, Helen. “Matthew’s Gadarene Swine and the Conquest of Jericho: An Intertextual Reading.” Pacific Journal of Theological Research 14, no. 2 (2019): 13-24.

3) Our thanks and appreciation to our partners:

This podcast is a production of the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence.

https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/

Podcast cover art by Studio of Broken Things

https://www.facebook.com/ISA4048

Intro music "Br1ghter" by Tape Machines, Le June, Nbhd Nick

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Summary

In our inaugural episode, we give an overview of some of the biblical texts that talk about the slaughter of innocents and war rape that rightly cause us such ethical discomfort. Pushing through the awkwardness of never having done this before, we talk about what we hope to gain from reading this book and give an overview of the authors’ arguments, and talk about how hard questions sometimes emerge from deeper faith, and not skepticism. We also consider how we picture war, both ancient and modern, and consider to what degree Hollywood has affected our perceptions.

Show Notes

1) Our thanks and appreciation to our partners:

This podcast is a production of the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence.

https://www.csbvbristol.org.uk/

Podcast cover art by Studio of Broken Things

https://www.facebook.com/ISA4048

Intro music "Br1ghter" by Tape Machines, Le June, Nbhd Nick

2) Webb and Oeste’s list of troubling texts (p. 25 n. 1):

Genocide:

Num 21:2-3
Deut 2:34; 3:6; 7:2; 13:15; 20:16-17
Josh 6:21
1 Sam 15:3

War rape:

Num 31:17-18, 25
Deut 21:10-14

3) Also referenced in this episode were the stories in Joshua of Rahab (Josh. 2) and the Gibeonites (Josh. 9-10).

4) On the issue of whether there’s an angry God of the Old Testament, and a reformed, loving God in the New Testament, there are a number of good resources, such as the book by CSBV’s director Dr Helen Paynter, God of Violence Yesterday, God of Love Today? 

https://www.amazon.ca/God-Violence-Yesterday-Love-Today/dp/1532691033