Kieran and ⁠Michelle Rose⁠ return to the podcast to discuss their new community at The Autistic Advocate and Kieran's latest book, ⁠Autism – A Collection of Essays⁠.  They reflect on nearly a decade of advocacy, how the autism landscape has evolved, and why meaningful change depends on compassion, connection, and a willingness to keep learning.

Link to the show notes with links to key discussion points and other ways to view or hear the episode here: ⁠https://affectautism.com/2026/06/26/essays/

Consider joining our DIR® Parent Network or becoming an Affect Autism member for bonus content and support from a like-minded community of Floortimers here: ⁠⁠https://affectautism.com/support/

Licensed Clinical Psychologist, Alex Klein, joins us this episode from Oakland, California where he is both in private practice and works at the Kaiser Oakland Medical Center assessing and providing therapy to both children and adults with neurodevelopmental differences. He trained with Dr. Stanley Greenspan, Jake Greenspan and Tim Bleecker, and also with Dr. Gil Tippy and Tina McCourt at the Rebecca School, where he was a Head Teacher and Floortime Coach before moving out west for graduate school. I invited him to share his presentation from the Rebecca School DIR® NYC Conference on Neurodiversity-Affirming Care.

Link to the show notes with links to key discussion points and other ways to view or hear the episode here: ⁠⁠⁠http://affectautism.com/2021/04/10/neurodiversity ⁠⁠

Consider joining our DIR® Parent Network or becoming an Affect Autism member for bonus content and support from a like-minded community of Floortimers here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://affectautism.com/support/⁠

⁠AUTISTIC Viewpoints⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a podcast hosted by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Turrell Burgess⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Daria Brown⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. On Episode 12, "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough," Turrell and Daria cover Michael Jackson: the new movie, the songs, the fandom, his intersection with DIRFloortime (what?!) and a few more surprises! Enjoy our special episode on the occasions of AUTISTIC Pride (June 18) and JUNETEENTH (June 19)! We hope you like it as much as we enjoyed making it!⁠

Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://affectautism.com/autistic-viewpoints/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Timestamps:

0:14 Introduction

1:56 Turrell's first memories of hearing Michael Jackson

2:27 Daria's first memories of hearing Michael Jackson

3:07 The Jackson 5

3:45 Why the beginning of the movie Michael made Daria so emotional for more than one reason

5:50 Turrell's reflections on the movie Michael

7:05 Turrell's early experiences listening to Michael Jackson growing up

7:29 Daria's real-time experiences of listening to Michael Jackson growing up

8:28 The album OFF THE WALL: our impressions and memories

9:45 The album THRILLER: our impressions, including from the movie, Michael, and our memories

11:57 Thriller in the movie, Michael

12:17 Turrell's favourite songs from Thriller

12:40 Daria's favourite songs from Thriller

13:18 MOTOWN 25 and the movie

14:13 The album BAD: our impressions and memories

15:04 * AUTISTIC Pride tribute *

15:38 Turrell's Fun Fact and Daria's reflections on Bad's impact

16:23 The album DANGEROUS: our impressions and memories

18:10 Daria's concert book from the Victory Tour

21:55 Concert talk

22:50 History and Invincible and the Michael Jackson Experience video game

23:46 Memories of Michael Jackson's death

24:32 The movie's foreshadowing

25:23 What the fans wanted

27:43 Jaafar!

28:16 The movie's success

28:28 Michael Jackson Cancun show

29:52 * JUNETEENTH tribute *

31:07 Canadian connection!

31:46 DIRFloortime connection!

33:25 ICDL connection!

34:50 * Turrell's SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT! *

36:27 Closing remarks

Resources:Wylie Draper: https://www.instagram.com/p/DSgOQKskT5x/ and https://www.instagram.com/p/DW7tFjija-o/

* Thank you to Hungarian recording artist ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Post Analog Disorder⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for the intro/outro music permission: ⁠⁠⁠https://postanalogdisorder.bandcamp.com/album/still-i-rise

My guests this episode are Gwen and Gene Harshaw. At 4 years old their son Zayne was diagnosed with autism and his parents were told that he would never be able to read, button his shirt, zip zippers or tie his shoes, or connect with other people. His parents found strength through Zayne’s gifts instead of focusing on his weaknesses. Today, Zayne is a member of the band Blue Spectrum, which is the ICDL’s house band. The Harshaw family are autism acceptance advocates through their public speaking engagements and volunteer roles where they offer guidance, provide hope, and build families’ confidence and capacity, and a “vision of possibility.”

Link to the show notes with links to key discussion points and other ways to view or hear the episode here: ⁠https://affectautism.com/2026/06/12/possibility/Consider joining our DIR® Parent Network or becoming an Affect Autism member for bonus content and support from a like-minded community of Floortimers here: ⁠⁠https://affectautism.com/support/

Sometimes the biggest challenge parents have with their autistic children who have meltdowns is meeting the child emotionally and connecting. Here, we need to find the affect they’re having in that moment in order to support them to feel heard and understood. Developmental, Individual differences, Relationship-based (DIR®) Expert and Training Leader, Kasheena Holder, joins us to discuss this process of providing co-regulatory support for our children. Kasheena is a Special Education Teacher in Barbados and works with the International Council on Development and Learning. She owns a local private practice in Barbados called First Step where she supports children with neurodiversities and their families.

Sad note: Kasheena passed away in December of 2024 and is fondly remembered for her generous spirit.

Link to the show notes with links to key discussion points and other ways to view or hear the episode here: ⁠https://affectautism.com/2022/03/26/feel/

Consider joining our DIR® Parent Network or becoming an Affect Autism member for bonus content and support from a like-minded community of Floortimers here: ⁠⁠https://affectautism.com/support/

Returning guest Julia Swaigen is a registered social worker in Toronto who founded and directs Attuned Families, a clinic to help families harness the power of relationships so that parents find peace and children thrive. They offer family therapy, child therapy, parent coaching, and also work with schools. Julia is here to discuss the release of her new book entitled, You Are My Home: Stories of Attunement.

Link to the show notes with links to key discussion points and other ways to view or hear the episode here: ⁠https://affectautism.com/2026/05/29/stories-of-attunement/

Consider joining our DIR® Parent Network or becoming an Affect Autism member for bonus content and support from a like-minded community of Floortimers here: ⁠⁠https://affectautism.com/support/

This episode falls in the month of May which is Apraxia Awareness Month. I’m pleased to welcome my friend, Brandy Jordan, the mother of a 14-year-old, non speaking, Apraxic Autistic son. She is joining us to talk about their journey.

Link to the show notes with links to key discussion points and other ways to view or hear the episode here: ⁠https://affectautism.com/2026/05/22/apraxia/

Consider joining our DIR® Parent Network or becoming an Affect Autism member for bonus content and support from a like-minded community of Floortimers here: ⁠⁠https://affectautism.com/support/

* Thank you to Toronto recording artist Ayria for the intro/outro song permission.

In this episode, psychologist and Neufeld Institute senior faculty member Eva de Gosztonyi shares reflections from over 50 years working in schools across Canada and explains how Gordon Neufeld’s attachment-based developmental paradigm transformed her understanding of children, behaviour, emotional regulation, and learning. Eva discusses how traditional behavioral approaches often failed the children who struggled most and describes her efforts to implement relationship-based, developmental practices within Quebec’s English-speaking school systems.

Link to the show notes with links to key discussion points and other ways to view or hear the episode here: ⁠https://affectautism.com/2026/05/15/holding-space/

Consider joining our DIR® Parent Network or becoming an Affect Autism member for bonus content and support from a like-minded community of Floortimers here: ⁠⁠https://affectautism.com/support/

* Thank you to Mauritian American recording artists ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Hallows and Artoffact Records for the background promo music: ⁠⁠https://hallows.bandcamp.com/track/catalyst-2

Jackie Bartell is back with us this episode for a fantastic discussion about a concept so essential to the ⁠Developmental, Individual differences, Relationship-based (DIR®) model⁠ and ⁠Floortime⁠, and that is that we are human beings not human doings. Jackie is a retired special educator with the International Council on Development and Learning (⁠ICDL⁠) and is a ⁠DIRFloortime® Expert Training Leader⁠.

Link to the full blog post with links to key discussion points and other ways to view or hear the podcast here: ⁠https://affectautism.com/2018/05/21/being/⁠

Consider joining our DIR® Parent Network or becoming an Affect Autism member for bonus content and support from a like-minded community of Floortimers here: ⁠https://www.icdl.com/parents⁠

⁠AUTISTIC Viewpoints⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a podcast hosted by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Turrell Burgess⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Daria Brown⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. On Episode 11, returning guest Khylil Robinson joins us!

Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://affectautism.com/autistic-viewpoints/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Timestamps:

00:13 Introductions

01:27 Khylil's recent award

01:46 Khylil's sentiments about being a repeat guest

02:29 Setting up this episode's topics

03:29 Turrell's review of their recent conference presentation

04:43 Daria's comments about their presentation as an presentation attendee

05:39 Khylil's reflections on their conference presentation

08:34 Call out for hiring Khylil or Turrell to present online or in person, especially considering the unique experiences of young, black Autistic men

09:33 How this presentation differed from past presentations

11:35 Khylil's upcoming work events

15:47 Daria's reaction to Khylil's work events including incarceration

16:48 Turrell's upcoming work events

18:33 Daria's reaction to Turrell's work events and how we can advocate for all Autistics even if we can't speak to the experience of all Autistics

19:42 Khylil's work with police officers

21:23 Khylil's experience with law enforcement and his mental break about it

25:08 Daria highlighting the gravity of this experience for anyone, let alone Autistic, let alone with the intersectional of being Black and all of the prejudice that accompanies that, then the masking that happens and the toll that takes on one's mental health and emotional well-being

26:55 The work of KultureCity

27:22 Turrell's reflections on being Black and Autistic

30:07 Daria's comments on Autism awareness all year round and not just in April

30:40 Khylil talking about Mental Health Awareness month in May and specifically Men's Mental Health Awareness in June and managing his responsibilities, including his experience of his tire blowing on the highway and the aftermath

34:00 Daria's comments on Autistic rumination and the toll on mental health and the accumulation of traumatic experiences

35:43 Turrell's reactions about these experiences

37:02 Daria bringing up the last episode with KW that if someone describes their experience, believe them

37:31 Khylil talks about Autistics sharing their stories and lived experiences

39:04 Lightening up the topic to upcoming spring events and Autistic joy that can help to attempt to pull us out of our ruminations or suffering mental health experiences and her specific Autistic joy on display this episode

41:31 Khylil's humorous description of his latest fun events

45:20 International travels

46:15 Turrell's upcoming plans for the upcoming months

47:48 Khylil's interest in the Michael Jackson biopic is strictly related to Sonic the Hedgehog and Daria has no idea what he means

51:07 Turrell gives a teaser about the next episode

51:52 Wrap-Up

Resources:

KultureCity: Sensory Accessibility and Inclusion podcast episode ⁠https://affectautism.com/2021/10/16/kulturecity/⁠

Dr. Gordon Neufeld podcast episode on emotional well-being ⁠https://affectautism.com/2023/03/04/well-being/⁠

Khylil's stellar artist reference

Sexy Nerds Events ⁠https://sexynerds.net/⁠

* Thank you to Hungarian recording artist ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Post Analog Disorder⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for the intro/outro music permission: ⁠⁠https://postanalogdisorder.bandcamp.com/album/still-i-rise