Why does it feel like modern politics has shifted from simple disagreements to an all-out war for team loyalty? In this episode, we sit down with Stephen Hawkins, the director of research for More in Common, an international organization tracking the deep psychology, values, and hidden tribes behind our fractured global landscape. Stephen breaks down his journey from an evangelical College Republican to a cosmopolitan progressive activist, revealing why the simplistic categories used by the media fail to explain our real inner lives.

We examine More in Common’s massive new study to answer the question: who actually votes for Donald Trump? We unpack the shocking data showing that the modern Republican voter base is the youngest and most racially diverse it has been in half a century. Jolene and Nicole share their own unexpected results from taking the coalition quiz, and we look at the real economic and border anxieties driving the "Reluctant Right" versus the deeply personal identity anchoring "MAGA Hardliners."

We also pull back the curtain on the completely broken incentive structures keeping Washington D.C. locked in conflict. From social media algorithms that monetize rage to a political system that forces members of Congress to spend up to 70% of their time fundraising, we look at how combativeness has become a highly profitable business model.

00:00 Intro.

00:26 Meet research director Stephen Hawkins.

01:08 Stephen’s journey across both political tribes.

03:01 The tragic origins of More in Common.

07:08 Moving beyond simplistic demographics in polling.

11:46 Understanding America's exhausted majority.

12:42 Breaking down the modern Trump coalition.

14:21 Host results from the coalition quiz.

18:43 The myth of shy Trump voters.

20:23 MAGA hardliners and personal identity.

22:00 The Democratic perception gap on economics.

25:19 How media models monetize political rage.

27:55 The exhausting reality of congressional fundraising.

30:15 How D.C. camaraderie completely died.

34:42 Solidarity during major American crises.

38:00 Political lessons from the Gilded Age.

44:38 Why public institutional trust eroded.

47:09 Gen Z as political kingmakers.

50:56 AI as a shared societal threat.

53:52 Good for the soul book recommendation.

55:22 Would You Rather: Banning anonymous accounts.

57:32 Would You Rather: Hometown versus cruise.

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Stephen Hawkins Organization: https://moreincommonus.com/

Stephen Hawkins Report: https://beyondmaga.us/

Brad Porteus: https://www.bridgegrades.org/

Stephen's Good for the Soul: https://rutgerbregman.com/books/moral-ambition

Our Website:

• https://www.wevegottotalk.com/

LINKS:

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk

On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701

On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2

How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/

How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

Tipping culture in the USA is out of control right now. In this episode, we dig into the history of tipping in America, why it became normal for customers to subsidize wages, and how the USA minimum wage rules for tipped workers still shape what you pay every time you eat out. We talk about the tipped minimum wage, the “tip credit”, and why the $2.13 an hour figure still comes up when people search “why do we tip in America” and “why is tipping expected”.

We also get into the real question people argue about online: should the US get rid of tipping and switch to a no tipping model like parts of Europe and Japan? Would raising the minimum wage for servers fix tipping culture, or would it just make restaurant prices even higher? We break down what “fair pay” could look like without turning every meal into a luxury, and why so many people feel stuck between wanting to tip well and feeling pressured to tip everywhere.

Then we shift into the other thing that is quietly making everyone uncomfortable: ratings culture. From Yelp and Google reviews to the constant “rate your experience” texts, we talk about why rating everything has become normal, and how online reviews can hurt small businesses when people are angry, unfair, or just trying to get free stuff. If you have ever searched “are Google reviews reliable” or “fake reviews problem”, you are going to feel very seen.

Finally, we talk about Uber and Lyft ratings and why they are so problematic. When both the driver and the passenger are rating each other, it can make people afraid to be honest, even when a ride feels unsafe.

Here is where we land. $2.13 an hour is bananas. Tipping has become a wage subsidy, and customers are being guilted into carrying it. And if we are going to keep rating everything, we should at least remember there are real humans on the other side of that screen. Take a breath. Contact the owner first. Give people a chance to fix it before you light them up in public.

CHAPTER MARKERS:

00:00 Intro.

00:00:53 Tipping and rating culture. Why this topic hits a nerve.

00:01:35 History of tipping culture in the USA. Where “tip” comes from.

00:02:32 Why tipping spread in America. Post slavery and the railways.

00:04:53 Tipped minimum wage. Why $2.13 an hour still exists.

00:05:28 Conservative view on tipping. Rewarding good service.

00:06:36 Tip pooling. Who gets tipped and who gets left out.

00:08:27 Point of sale tipping prompts. Why tip pressure feels gross.

00:11:32 No tipping restaurants. Higher prices and better experience.

00:12:31 Restaurant tipping percentages. What is normal now.

00:14:22 Tipping guide. Counter service, salons, Uber, hotels, delivery.

00:17:03 Hotel tipping debate. When to tip housekeeping.

00:18:16 Delivery tipping. Who gets blamed when food is late.

00:22:16 Minimum wage plus tips. Republican vs Democrat framing.

00:30:07 Ratings culture. Yelp, Google reviews, and why it is everywhere.

00:32:10 Uber and Lyft ratings. Unsafe rides and fear of honesty.

00:35:30 Why ratings matter. Trust, authenticity, and buying reviews.

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Our Website:

• https://www.wevegottotalk.com/

LINKS:

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk

On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701

On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2

How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/

How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

In this episode, we tackle the shocking details behind Donald Trump’s latest legal maneuver. Nicole and Jolene break down why Trump suddenly dropped his massive $10 billion lawsuit against the IRS and immediately replaced it with the "$1.776 Billion Anti-Weaponization Fund."

We take a look past the patriotic branding to reveal why this massive proposal has absolutely no legal safeguards. We break down the glaring conflict of interest at the center of the fund, including a quiet provision drafted by Trump's personal attorney and acting Attorney General, Todd Blanche, that effectively excuses Trump and his family businesses from federal tax investigations.

We look at the actual numbers, including the family’s massive, active trading in stocks and cryptocurrency and ask a question that should bother voters on both sides of the aisle: where is the accountability?

We also get into a broader, heavy reality that goes way beyond the headlines: political exhaustion. We look at how low primary voter turnouts allow extreme voices to take control, and how the media keeps us distracted with petty arguments while regular people face massive global and economic whiplash from skyrocketed grocery bills to merchant marine sailors stranded without power in a war zone.

Finally, we talk about escaping the constant tribalism, breaking out of the "bubble of shame," and what it actually takes to start talking to each other like grown-ups again.

Questions Covered in This Episode:

• What is the $1.776 Billion Anti-Weaponization Fund?
• Why did Donald Trump drop his IRS lawsuit?
• What does Todd Blanche's tax letter mean for the Trump family businesses?
• Why are GOP Senators pushing back on Trump's new settlement announcement?
• How does low primary voter turnout impact local elections?

CHAPTER MARKERS:

00:00 - Introduction

00:39 - The $1.776 Billion Anti-Weaponization Fund explained

03:14 - Settling a $10B lawsuit: Typical Trump negotiations?

04:27 - 3,700 stocks, crypto millions, and the family tax exemption

05:15 - Todd Blanche and the total lack of independent accountability

05:40 - Nicole's theory: Is this a private army fund?

07:03 - GOP Senators say no mas: Ted Cruz’s podcast leak

08:13 - The 8% voter turnout reality in local primaries

11:35 - Legal perspective and dropping cases he can't win

14:00 - Decompiling immigration bills: Senate Republicans are furious

17:00 - Global whiplash: Iran war, high gas prices, and stranded sailors

18:39 - Are people just completely fed up with Trump?

21:37 - Why Democrats and Gen Z are also losing trust in government

24:02 - Fighting fire with fire: Nicole’s frustration with the Democrats

25:07 - Popping the "bubble of shame" and looking at Texas politics

26:24 - The State Fair turkey leg: Dissecting dumb political distraction tactics

29:26 - Would You Rather

Join the Conversation: Are you feeling the same political exhaustion and whiplash from modern news cycles? Let us know your thoughts in the comments below and remember to pause and connect with the human on the other side of the screen.

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Ted Cruz Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/chaos-in-dc-on-reconciliation-doj-judgment-fund-plus/id1495601614?i=1000769050505

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/29/us/politics/federal-judge-trump-fund.html?unlocked_article_code=1.mlA.Nhlk.t-wPONIlelQi&smid=url-share

https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/trump-republican-congress-control-98a13bd9?mod=article_inline

Our Website:

https://www.wevegottotalk.com/

LINKS:

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk

On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701

On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2

How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/

How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

What happens when you try to tell the truth in a world that only wants team loyalty?

In this episode, we talk with Isaac Saul, founder of Tangle, the independent, non-partisan politics newsletter that summarises the best arguments from the left and the right. Isaac wrote a “plea for help” email after conservatives accused Tangle of bashing Trump while liberals accused it of sanewashing Trump, often in response to the exact same newsletter.

We take a look at why the current political division feels different now, and how the media ecosystem rewards outrage, certainty, and tribalism. Isaac breaks down why “picking a side” is often the most profitable model in modern media, and what it costs the rest of us, our relationships, our mental health, and our ability to talk to family and friends who disagree with us.

We also get into something surprisingly powerful: language. Isaac explains how tiny word choices can trigger instant assumptions of political bias, and how Tangle created its own editorial standards to keep readers from rage-quitting before they even reach the arguments.

Finally, we talk about whether we’ve hit “peak indecency,” and what might actually bring a decency comeback in politics and culture.

CHAPTER MARKERS:

00:00 Introduction

00:21 Meet Isaac Saul (Tangle News Founder)

02:15 Why Political Polarisation Feels Worse Right Now

05:21 Media Incentives: Why Outrage and “Pick a Side” Content Wins

07:09 Toxic Comment Sections and Cancel Culture

12:24 Did COVID Accelerate Division? Doomscrolling, Isolation, and Social Media

19:16 Neutral Language in Journalism: Tangle’s Editorial Standards Explained

22:39 Why Polls Skew Left: Conservatives Less Likely to Answer Surveys

24:02 NPR / Public Radio Surge

26:54 Writing With Integrity: Staying Honest Without Feeding Tribalism

30:57 AI, Misinformation, and the Hope for a “Decency Comeback” in Politics

36:02 Would You Rather

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

This American Life Tangle Episode: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/845/a-small-thing?ref=readtangle.com

Issac Saul with David French:

https://youtu.be/fxAKXuvMXcw?si=FpOYfAVa2IdIMkaA

Issac Saul TED Talk:

https://youtu.be/543mYKKh1EE?si=-wUgGLuSZ1LK5ygI

GOOD FOR THE SOUL:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45031831-one-long-river-of-song

Our Website:

• https://www.wevegottotalk.com/

LINKS:

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk

On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701

On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2

How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/

How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

Fourteen Wisconsinites from opposite sides of the abortion debate sat down together for a three-day Builders Movement Citizen Solutions session on abortion and family wellbeing. This wasn’t a panel or a debate for show. It was a practical, structured process with trained facilitators and a clear framework, designed to help people hear each other properly and figure out what could actually change in real life, not just online.

What they landed on was surprisingly concrete: extending Medicaid postpartum coverage in Wisconsin from 60 days to a full year. In March 2026, the policy passed almost unanimously, and Governor Tony Evers signed it into law. This means more moms getting treatment for postpartum depression, more women getting care when something goes wrong after birth, and more families supported during the months when everything is raw, expensive, and exhausting.

But the story behind that win is not tidy. One participant, Ali (a progressive Democrat and elected official in Madison), admitted she walked in suspicious, worried it would be conflict-as-entertainment. Kai, an independent who describes herself as a “world citizen,” trusted the referral and believed the process could work. Kateri, a Catholic who prefers “consistent life ethic,” feared being flattened into a stereotype, and she didn’t sugar-coat how hard it was to feel understood in a room full of strangers on a topic this loaded.

This is the part we don’t talk about enough: real dialogue is uncomfortable, and “common ground” doesn’t magically appear because everyone’s being polite. It takes time, relationship, and a willingness to stay in the room when it gets tense. Still, this group proved something important, that even when people can’t agree on everything, they can sometimes agree on what families need, and push through the politics to get a real policy solution across the line.

CHAPTER MARKERS:

00:00 Introduction

00:31 Builders Movement Intro

01:30 Meet The Participants

03:52 Ali Joins With Skepticism

05:47 Kai On Trust And Dialogue

07:21 Three Day Solution Session

11:12 Trauma And Finding Empathy

13:58 Relationship Building Debate

24:37 Men In The Room

25:59 Choosing Medicaid Extension

27:22 Wraparound Support Systems

30:12 Partisan Pushback and Perseverance

33:25 Backlash and Unfinished Work

36:08 Good for the Soul Picks

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Builders Movement: https://buildersmovement.org/

Citizen Solutions Wisconsin: http://citizensolutions.us/citizensolutions/wi

GOOD FOR THE SOUL:

Ali’s: My Friends by Friedrich Bachman

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/217163697-my-friends

Kateri’s - East of Eden by John Steinbeck https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4406.East_of_Eden

Kai’s - Hammersmith Odeon Concerts https://www.concertarchives.org/venues/hammersmith-odeon

Our Website:

• https://www.wevegottotalk.com/

LINKS:

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk

On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701

On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2

How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/

How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

In a world that rewards outrage, it can feel safer to avoid politics, religion, and money altogether. But the silence doesn’t fix anything, it just pushes the tension into Facebook fights, family dinners, and comment sections where people forget there’s a real human on the other side. In this conversation with Stacy Blakeley, Executive Director of the Builders Movement, we talk about how “us vs them” thinking became normal, and why it’s keeping the thoughtful majority stuck on the sidelines.

The Builders Movement is a citizen-first movement built to push back on the outrage industrial complex and rebuild civil dialogue in real life. Stacy explains why Builders isn’t a think tank with an agenda, it’s a movement that starts by listening, polling, and meeting people where they are, then creating guardrails so conversations don’t spiral into “everything is broken.” The goal is practical: get citizens back in the driver’s seat, and build solutions from common ground without pretending differences don’t exist.

We also dig into Citizen Solutions, the Builders program that brings a carefully selected group of everyday people across race, income, and politics into a two-day, facilitated process to practice good conflict and find actionable policy solutions. Stacy shares what this looked like in Tennessee (including the documentary Tennessee 11) and in Wisconsin, where citizens helped drive legislation to extend postpartum Medicaid coverage, proof that the system can move when regular people stay in it long enough.

Finally, we talk about the Builders mindset and the four C’s: curiosity, creativity, courage, and compassion. We unpack why people are often kinder in person than online, how algorithms fuel tribalism, and why the real problem isn’t “the other side,” it’s an incentive system that rewards extremes. If you’re tired of the circus and wondering what you can actually do, this is your reminder: small groups change the world, and it starts with staying human.

CHAPTER MARKERS:

00:00 Friends Across Politics: Liberal vs Conservative civil discourse

01:08 What Is the Builders Movement? Ending “us vs them” political division

02:53 Fighting Outrage Culture: social media algorithms and the outrage economy

04:20 Citizen Solutions Explained: bipartisan dialogue that leads to real policy

05:26 Tennessee 11: guns, polarization, and finding common ground

08:11 Wisconsin Win: postpartum Medicaid extension (citizen-led legislation)

10:50 Texas Healthcare Solutions: affordability, access, and practical reform

13:29 Local vs National Impact: civic engagement that scales from communities

19:38 Builders Mindset: the Four C’s (curiosity, creativity, courage, compassion)

23:27 Rewarding Builders in Politics: voting for character over party

29:37 Builders Index + C4: rating candidates as Builder vs Divider

32:51 Voting Beyond Party: independents, open-minded voters, and reform

35:11 Broken Incentives: donors, PACs, lobbying power, and extremism

36:01 Citizen Solutions Hope: why everyday citizens can still change the system

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Builders Movement: https://buildersmovement.org/

Tennessee 11 Documentary Trailer: https://youtu.be/p-drQKzz2q0?si=ulCjPJeR5xHXtXLl

Bridge Grades: https://www.bridgegrades.org/

Builders Texas Primary Campaign- Turn out or rollover: https://youtu.be/va4dmwxtqXE?si=JqNGa5KdokVFV9yh

Ben Sasse 60 Minutes: https://youtu.be/dDveT8OesWA?si=-gfjZB6j7RHA-kn0

Political Integrity Substack: https://politicalintegrity.us/

Good for the Soul: Raye “Joy”: https://youtu.be/taHYtEGxLnw?si=NpLgzbEJTMapPfMU and the live performance: https://youtu.be/2scS3s_I050?si=bkp9PLF9Mz6AilmR

Our Website:

• https://www.wevegottotalk.com/

LINKS:

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk

On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701

On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2

How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/

How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

Politics has started to feel like a loyalty test, not a conversation. Say one thing that is not perfectly on script for your “side” and people act like you have betrayed the whole team. The problem is not that we disagree. The problem is that we have built a culture where curiosity looks weak, changing your mind feels dangerous, and being loud gets rewarded.

A lot of the nastiness is being fuelled by the “our side versus their side” mindset. Headlines get treated like weapons. People post for points, not understanding. Social media makes it easy to react to a clip, assume the worst, and decide you already know what kind of person someone is. In real life, when you are face to face, it is harder to hate someone you actually know.

Labels do not help either. “Liberal.” “Conservative.” “Christian.” “Atheist.” They can help you find community, but they can also trap you there. Once you pick a label, you are expected to perform it perfectly. And if you leave room for nuance, you risk being shamed, bullied, or written off. That is how we end up with more certainty and less thinking.

So where do we go from here? Smaller than people want. It starts with the next comment you almost leave, the next assumption you almost make, the next time you feel that rush of righteousness. Pause. Ask a question instead of throwing a punch. And if you can, get to know someone in real life who thinks differently from you, not to convert them, just to remember what it feels like to talk to a person instead of a stereotype.

CHAPTER MARKERS:

00:00 Welcome + “Where Do We Go From Here?” in American Politics

00:48 The Rage Economy: Why Politics Feels Mean and Exhausting

01:33 Changing Your Mind: Why Admitting You’re Wrong Feels Risky

02:18 “Our Side Has to Win”: The Us vs Them Mindset

03:28 Trump Voters, Regret, and the Two-Choices Reality

04:56 The Exhausted Middle: Extremes on Both Sides and Political Fatigue

05:05 Social Media Algorithms: Why Outrage Gets Rewarded

08:04 Comment Sections vs Real Life

10:16 Belonging and Identity

15:33 Media Trust + Isaac Saul (Tangle) and the Cost of Being Fair

17:38 Staying Curious When It’s Uncomfortable

19:00 Accountability: Me Too, Complicity, and Protecting the Tribe

24:16 Menopause for President

26:16 The Enemies Project: Seeing Each Other’s Humanity Again

31:59 Wrap Up + Subscribe and Share

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Eric Swallwell video: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DXKWBRbFH76/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Good for the Soul:

The Enemies Project https://www.instagram.com/reel/DXKWBRbFH76/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

LINKS:

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk

On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701

On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2

Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/

How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/

How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

Sanctuary cities are one of those topics that instantly makes people get their haunches up ready to “defend their side.” It’s either a lawless open border or a necessary humanitarian shield. But the truth is far more nuanced (and historical) than a political soundbite. Nicole (liberal) and Jolene (conservative) look past the headlines to figure out what "sanctuary" actually means in practice and how a religious movement from the 1980s became the flashpoint for today’s culture wars.

We get into the history that most people have forgotten, starting with the 1980s sanctuary movement in Arizona churches. We talk about how immigration policy shifted from a labor issue to a criminal justice issue in the 90s, and why the "Deporter-in-Chief" title belongs to a president that might surprise you. Is the current system built for safety, or is it just a bureaucratic maze that leaves everyone on both sides of the aisle feeling frustrated?

Then there’s the practical reality of local policing. We talk about why some police departments actually prefer sanctuary policies to build community trust, and the tension that creates when violent offenders fall through the cracks. If the goal is community safety, how do we balance federal law with local needs without turning every city into a political battlefield?

Finally, we zoom out to the human side of the American dream. We talk about quotas, the "lottery" of citizenship, and why "common sense" is so hard to find in Washington. These are the conversations we have to have if we ever want to move past the shouting and find some common ground.

CHAPTER MARKERS:

00:00 Introduction

02:07 Hot Takes from Liberal and Conservative on Sanctuary Cities

04:10 The 1980s Sanctuary Movement: It Started in the Church

09:00 The 1996 IIRAIRA Act: Moving from Labor to Criminal Justice

12:00 Secure Communities & The Obama Era Deportations

14:50 How Fingerprinting and ICE Holds Actually Work

17:30 Why Cities Choose Sanctuary Status

22:50 The Republican Perspective on Repeat Offenders

27:30 The American Dream vs. Political Quotas

31:00 Can We Fix the Path to Citizenship?

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

• The Sanctuary Movement: 1980s Origins: https://carleton.ca/news/story/sanctuary-cities-history-1980s-origins/
• Boston’s Sanctuary History: https://globalboston.bc.edu/index.php/home/eras-of-migration/global-era/sanctuary-cities/
• The Past and Present of Sanctuary Cities (Video): https://youtu.be/XaR5kR8h4es?si=sc5n1ZobUVm6w_Uy

• What is Sanctuary? (ALA): https://www.ala.org/advocacy/what-sanctuary
• National Map of Local Entanglement with ICE: https://www.ilrc.org/resources/national-map-local-entanglement-ice
• Justice Department List of Sanctuary Jurisdictions: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-publishes-list-sanctuary-jurisdictions
• Secure Communities Explained:https://forumtogether.org/article/secure-communities/

• Executive Action Fact Sheet (White House Archives) https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/11/20/fact-sheet-immigration-accountability-executive-action
• The Mixed Legacy of Obama’s Immigration Policy (Cato Institute): https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/obamas-mixed-legacy-immigration
• The Shift to the Priority Enforcement Program (American Immigration Council: https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/blog/president-obamas-legacy-immigration/
• Comparing Border Security: Obama vs. Biden (CIS): https://cis.org/Arthur/Obama-Secured-Border-Why-Cant-Biden
• https://www.costplusdrugs.com/

• Understanding Sanctuary Policies (Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKHl__BEsD0
• The Immigration Debate Explained (Video)” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJHgmQc-Fog
• Sanctuary Cities: A Closer Look (Video): https://youtu.be/o2uFpuQQQ5Q?si=iWDv8Zz0Uuj6iPMD

Our Website:

• https://www.wevegottotalk.com/

LINKS:

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk

On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701

On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2

Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/

How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/

How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

AI is one of those topics that makes people speak in absolutes: it’s either going to save us or destroy us. But the truth is simpler (and scarier): AI is already everywhere. It’s in your phone, your inbox, your car… it’s everywhere. In this episode, Nicole (liberal) and Jolene (conservative) talk about what happens when artificial intelligence stops being a future headline and starts becoming a daily habit without clear guardrails, shared rules, or conversations about the trade-offs.

We get into the part that no one seems fully ready for: people forming emotional attachments to AI. From AI companions to chatbots that “listen” and affirm, it’s not hard to see how vulnerable people, especially teenagers, could start relying on AI for companionship, validation, or advice. Is that harmless? Helpful? Or a quiet mental health risk we’re sleepwalking into? We don’t pretend to have all the answers, but we do think this is one of the biggest human questions hiding inside the tech story.

Then there’s the global AI arms race; competition, power, and the pressure to “win” at all costs. We talk about AI regulation, privacy, labor, safety, and the environmental impact of scaling AI fast. If speed becomes the only goal, what gets sacrificed along the way? And how do politics shape this conversation when AI doesn’t fit neatly into the usual left vs right boxes?

We also talk about real-world AI you can’t ignore anymore, like self-driving cars like Waymo. The promise is obvious: fewer accidents and fewer human errors. But when machines make strange decisions, it hits a nerve, because we expect technology to be flawless.

Finally, we zoom out to the bigger question: what happens to creativity and art in the age of AI-generated music, stories, and “AI slop”? Will “human-made” become a premium label? Watch, listen, and tell us where you land—because the future is being built whether we participate or not.

CHAPTER MARKERS:

00:00 Introduction

00:23 Why Talk AI Now

01:26 Home Robots Are Coming

04:21 Defining AI And Limits

05:27 Emotional Intimacy Risks

07:14 ChatGPT In Real Life

11:37 When AI Gets It Wrong

13:46 AI Race And Environment

23:31 Innovation And Fear

24:45 Artists Versus AI

25:28 AI Podcast Irony

27:13 AI Music Without Breath

28:21 Human Made Comeback

29:33 Waymo Safety Stories

34:33 Regulation And Incentives

39:29 Human Partnership Mindset

40:54 Would You Rather AI Edition

44:28 Wrap Up And Farewell

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

White House Response: https://www.whitehouse.gov/priorities/tech-innovation/

Waymo: https://waymo.com/

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/dec/02/sam-altman-issues-code-red-at-openai-as-chatgpt-contends-with-rivals

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwy7vrd8k4eo

https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/ai-has-environmental-problem-heres-what-world-can-do-about

Claude: https://claude.ai

Neo Robot:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1346749566932432

https://www.1x.tech/neo

youtube.com/watch?si=_5IHpQWBO0vxGS9T&v=j31dmodZ-5c&feature=youtu.be

Impact of AI data centres on the environment:

https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/ai-has-environmental-problem-heres-what-world-can-do-about

LINKS:

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk

On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701

On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2

Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/

How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/

How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/

In this episode, we dig into the “Beyond MAGA” report from More in Common and why it matters heading into the November midterms. If you spend any time online, you would think Trump voters are one giant, identical block of people. Angry, extreme, predictable. But that is not what the data shows. This report breaks the Trump coalition into more nuanced groups like MAGA Hardliners, Anti-Woke Conservatives, Mainstream Republicans, and the Reluctant Right, and that alone changes the conversation.

We talk about what actually shapes political identity inside the Republican coalition, including faith, distrust in institutions, community identity, and the feeling that traditional beliefs are often dismissed or mocked. Instead of flattening Trump supporters into one stereotype, we look at the deeper emotional and cultural forces behind why people vote the way they do, and why the liberal view of Trump voters often misses that complexity.

Immigration and “wokeness” are two of the biggest themes we unpack. The report shows that many Trump supporters are not anti-immigrant in the simplistic way they are often portrayed. Many hold positive views toward legal immigration while also feeling frustrated by disorder and a system they no longer trust. We also talk about how cultural messaging, tone, and performative politics have shaped the Republican vs liberal divide around Trump, especially when people feel talked down to rather than understood.

At the heart of this episode is a bigger question about political stereotypes, media narratives, and what happens to democracy when we stop being curious about each other. We do not all agree, but we do share more underlying frustrations than people want to admit. If we want a healthier political culture before the November midterms, we need less screaming, less certainty, and a lot more honesty about what is really driving voters on both sides.

CHAPTER MARKERS:

00:00 Introduction: Beyond MAGA, Trump Voters, and the November Midterms

00:28 Beyond MAGA Report Breakdown

01:41 Why Nuance Matters in Republican vs Liberal Conversations

03:23 Trump Voter Types Quiz: MAGA Hardliners, Mainstream Republicans and More

04:50 Beyond MAGA Methodology: Can This Trump Voter Research Be Trusted?

07:49 Immigration and Trump Voters: Perception vs Reality

11:07 Legal vs Illegal Immigration Debate in the Republican Coalition

16:12 What Drove the Trump Vote? Faith, Distrust, and Cultural Frustration

18:30 Trump Coalition of Frustrations: Why Voters Feel Let Down

20:11 Single-Issue Voting and the 2026 Midterms

21:36 Religion, Identity, and Why Faith Feels Countercultural

22:33 Loneliness, Belonging, and Political Identity in America

23:16 Democrats, the Working Class, and Why Voters Feel Abandoned

24:40 Wokeness Debate: Media, Culture, and Anti-Woke Conservatives

27:23 Why Americans Hate Their Political Opponents

28:24 Cancel Culture, Political Nuance, and the Liberal vs Conservative Divide

30:34 New Media, Political Change, and Hope for 2028

33:00 Would You Rather: Final Thoughts on MAGA, Midterms, and Political Identity

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

https://www.moreincommon.com/

https://moreincommonus.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/More-in-Common-Beyond-MAGA-A-Profile-of-the-Trump-Coalition-Jan-2026-Wave-6.pdf

https://san.com/

https://www.mo.news/

https://www.readtangle.com/

Our Website:

• https://www.wevegottotalk.com/

LINKS:

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WeveGotToTalk

On Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/weve-got-to-talk/id1797423701

On Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qJVgTvjciUffRmoUienx2

Our Website: https://www.wevegottotalk.com/

How to find Nicole https://nicolefonarow.com/,

How to find Jolene https://dibledough.com/