When you think about the holidays, what image comes to mind? Sitting around a holiday table with friends and family? Spending time with loved ones? Watching some holiday movies, sipping hot cocoa, and all the warm holiday fuzzies?

Or is your reality more like that of a lot of Americans, especially this 2023 holiday season: uncomfortable or downright hostile conversations with members of your family who feel VERY differently about you on polarizing topics, which could include politics, social justice, the economy, democracy, genocide, and so much more?

Most importantly, what are we supposed to do about this? Are we supposed to, as the New York Times suggest in their “How to Avoid Awkward Conversations” piece in mid-November, first try and “stifle those conversations”? That doesn’t seem very realistic, because let’s face it, your racist uncle is going to say what he wants to say, regardless of how many times you try to steer him towards “safe” topics.

Here at the podcast, we don’t think people want to avoid having uncomfortable conversations - they just don’t know HOW to have them. More than anything, people want practical tips.

Because let’s face it - we are in an extremely dark period both as a country and on a global level, we have what may be the most contentious election in our lifetime next year (I know, we said this in 2020 - we stand corrected), and we’re still going to be gathering with people over the next year. We think these conversations will only ramp up in frequency, tone, and seriousness going forward.

So in this episode, we’re going to be sharing tons of tools that you need to have those uncomfortable conversations with family, with friends, and even yourself now through 2024. Please share your best tips with us, as well!

What to listen for: 

• Tips for before, during, and after your holiday gatherings

• A selection of these tips include:

• knowing yourself and your why, 

• setting healthy boundaries, 

• using our favorite question “what do you mean by that?” 

• using “I statements,” with lots of specific examples

• questions you can use to reflect on what worked / didn’t work after the event.

• You’ll want to listen to the short episode to get the whole range of how to use these tips and more!

To give us input on what you want from our newsletter, and/or share your Asian immigration stories, reach us via email at [email protected]. Follow Dear White Women so you don’t miss these conversations! Like what you hear?  Don’t miss another episode and subscribe! Catch up on more commentary between episodes by following us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter – and even more opinions and resources if you join our email list.

If you heard our last episode on the myths surrounding Black-on-Asian crime, you heard that narratives pitting one historically marginalized community against another is a tactic sometimes used to distract us from the real enemy that we all should be focused on (hint: it’s white supremacy). It helps when we deconstruct the facts and look at real studies to dispel those myths – and helps, even more, when we get the opportunity to listen to stories of people who live the Black and Asian experience as a multiracial American, when we hear their heart-centered experiences from start to end.

That’s why we are so excited to share our conversation with Ryan Alexander Holmes, who’s not only an amazing actor (and king of hilarious reels on Instagram), but also someone who has thought deeply about race, identity, trauma, healing, and so much more. We believe that there’s something in this conversation for EVERYONE, regardless of how you identify, as it focuses on humanity first above all else.

What to listen for:

• Our “secret superhero” names - and what our names mean to us

• The impact of growing up in a conservative wealthy area, as one of the only African American families, and how Ryan claimed community and belonging anyway

• How to find humor in (your own) culture, reorient your sense of validation, and speak your truth

• What Ryan wants people to know about the misperceptions around Black on Asian crime (hint: it’s not real)

• The importance of radical empathy and how to heal from racial trauma

About Ryan:

Ryan Alexander Holmes is an actor and content creator based in Los Angeles, known for his strong presence on social media where he uses comedy and writing to explore and embrace his mixed Chinese/African American heritage. He aims to inspire others of mixed backgrounds to embrace their identity and showcase the strength in multiculturalism.  You can find more information at ryanalexanderholmes.com/ and follow him on Instagram @ryanalexh.

To give us input on what you want from our newsletter, and/or share your Asian immigration stories, reach us via email at [email protected]. Follow Dear White Women so you don’t miss these conversations! Like what you hear?  Don’t miss another episode and subscribe! Catch up on more commentary between episodes by following us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter – and even more opinions and resources if you join our email list.

You know the viral videos - the ones showing Black people, usually men, attacking unsuspecting Asian folks, usually elderly Asians. These are atrocious, awful incidents of course.  We don’t want anybody to be harmed.  AND, since we can hold two thoughts in our heads at the same time, we also need to state that these viral videos are giving us an inaccurate impression of anti-Asian hate.

For example, it turns out, according to a University of Maryland, College Park study, that most anti-Asian hate crimes are committed by white people, NOT Black people. Significantly so – more than three-quarters of offenders of anti-Asian hate crimes and incidents, from both before and during the pandemic, have been white.  

We want to have this conversation as part of our mixed race Asian arc, focusing on what we believe should be a point of solidarity but has instead been misunderstood to be a divisive issue with regard to Black and Asian Americans, with actual data as a reminder for all of us – that we need to train ourselves to pause when we see narratives that pit one historically marginalized group against another historically marginalized group, and ask ourselves if they’re true, because they’re often serving simply as a distraction to change the conversation, to move it away from the “real” enemy - white supremacy.  Dismantling white supremacy is where all of us - Asians, Black folks, white folks, and more – need to keep our energy focused.

What to listen for:

• Hate crime statistics - which show that even through the rise of anti-Asian hate through to the Covid years, there were still more anti-Black hate crimes than anti-Asian hate crimes.

• Perpetrators of hate crimes are predominantly white, as confirmed by multiple studies – NOT people of color, contrary to misperception due to viral videos

• Why is there this erroneous narrative of Black on Asian crime?  

• Taking apart the idea of white adjacency, and challenging more people of Asian descent to stand in solidarity against the common enemy -- white supremacy.

• Examples of Black and Asian solidarity throughout history.

To give us input on what you want from our newsletter, and/or share your Asian immigration stories, reach us via email at [email protected]. Follow Dear White Women so you don’t miss these conversations! Like what you hear?  Don’t miss another episode and subscribe! Catch up on more commentary between episodes by following us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter – and even more opinions and resources if you join our email list.

When we’re asked to do anti-bias talks at corporations, we’re sometimes asked by the different ERGs if we’re comfortable talking about LGTBQIA+ issues - and we answer with our truth, which is that we are both cisgender, heterosexual women who use she/her pronouns.  Nobody in our families is LGBTQIA+.  So while the skill sets to tackle bias are related, we prefer to give the floor to folks who can speak from firsthand experience and knowledge.

Enter our incredible conversation partner today - Schuyler Bailar, who many of you may know as @pinkmantaray.  We’ve been following him on Instagram, and his new book He/She/They is now on our short list of Best Books to Recommend Ever due to its practical structure and the fact that it’s full of questions he’s received about being transgender.  Just like the videos and workshops and all the work that he does, it’s accessible, not shaming; it’s factual, personal and so very meaningful. And bonus - he fits right into our multiracial Asian arc, as a mixed-race Korean and white American!

Remember, your LGBTQIA+ friends are not here to educate you; this isn’t their job. Schuyler has chosen to take on this role, so listen to this episode, read the book, watch his informative factual social media videos and make sure you’re doing the work yourself to be a better, more understanding human being! 

What to listen for:

• Intersectionality, and Schuyler’s own experience growing up biracial  

• The importance of exploring why you are who you are, for ALL of us, when it comes to gender 

• The quick take-down of the arguments from people working to push trans women out of women’s sports

• A bullet-pointed list of what NOT to say to transgender folks (timestamp 24.07 - 28.30)

• How to remind yourself of joy and a sense of thriving in the world, when it gets rough

• What Schuyler wants cisgender, heterosexual women to do differently, once you listen to the episode 

Make sure you sign up for our email list and follow us on Instagram @dearwhitewomenpodcast so you get the two bonus questions we asked Schuyler!   

About Schuyler:

Schuyler Bailar (he/him) is the first transgender athlete to compete in any sport on an NCAA Division 1 men’s team. By 15, he was one of the nation’s top - 20 15-year-old breast-strokers. By 17, he set a national age-group record. In college, he swam for Harvard University, on Harvard’s winningest team in 50 years. Schuyler’s difficult choice – to transition while potentially giving up the prospect of being an NCAA Champion – was historic. His story has appeared everywhere from 60 Minutes to The Washington Post. Schuyler’s tireless advocacy has earned him numerous honors including LGBTQ Nation’s Instagram Advocate for 2020. In 2021, Schuyler also released his first middle-grade novel, Obie Is Man Enough. And in 2022, Schuyler created LaneChanger.com making gender literacy education accessible to every team, school, and company.

Follow Schuyler on Instagram @pinkmantaray 

You heard us talking with Alex Chester-Iwata the other week on the show, who is third-generationJapanese American, and was the first family member in decades to visit Japan.  So, maybe like some of you listening, she has no direct experience with immigration – your family feels like it’s “always been here” in America.

That experience that Alex has of being mixed Asian is really different than what Misasha and Sara grew up with, as daughters of Japanese immigrant parents - we grew up visiting our parents’ extended families in Japan and feeling kind of at home in a different country.

It got us wondering… what IS the impact of immigration on the Asian American experience?  Can we explore how the psychological impact of immigration may be a missing part of the discussion when it comes to deconstructing common stereotypes that folks have here of Asians?  And how might that impact the mixed Asians in America today?

What to listen for: 

• Immigration stats – Asians now represent 6% of the total U.S. population and are the fastest-growing population segment, with 103% growth between 2000-2023.  

• Immigration history – and how the Hart-Cellar Act of 1965 (so recent!) finally opened the doors to immigration from Asian countries.

• Undocumented immigrant misperceptions – there are 1,734,600 undocumented immigrants from Asia and the Pacific Islands,17 percent of the total undocumented population living in the United States.  Yet we focus on those from our southern borders.

• The psychological pressures to know that may impact the perception of Asians in America.  Assimilation, language, food, and more.

• New vocabulary to know – “ethno-racialization” 

To give us input on what you want from our newsletter, and/or share your Asian immigration stories, reach us via email at [email protected].

When you turn on the TV or open a book, or look for memes on the Internet… how easy is it to find someone who looks like you? Your family? Because it’s never been that easy for us. So when today’s guest, who started her own media company called Mixed Asian Media out of her OWN frustration over not being represented out there, came across our radar, we immediately wanted to know all about her, her company, and her vision of what being mixed Asian is in today’s society, media, and our own journeys.

We couldn’t wait to have this chat with Alex Chester-Iwata, as today we get VERY real about growing up mixed Asian in the United States, belonging in Asian spaces, the questions that White, Asian, and other monoracial (listen in to find out more about THAT word) people ask biracial and multiracial individuals that we REALLY wish you wouldn’t, and so much more. This episode continues our look into what it means to be biracial and multiracial in this country, and even if that’s not you, we guarantee that someone you know is living this experience. This is about all of us.

What to listen for:

• Our latest thoughts on representation in the media, and what led to the formation of Mixed Asian Media

• How to make spaces more explicitly welcoming of multiracial people.

• Why we love the term “monoracial” - and what we want more monoracial folks to know about what NOT to ask multiracial folks.

About Alex Chester-Iwata:

Alex the Founder/CEO of Mixed Asian Media - A website and community for mixed APIs, recognized by the Nielsen Consumer Report on AAPIs. Alex received the 2023 Women of Distinction of Assembly 69th of California award and last year was one of the Asian Hustle Network’s top 50 Unsung Heros. Alex received her BA in 2021 from St. Mary’s College she graduated with honors and received the Dean’s Award for community engagement and academic excellence. Alex is a board member of ACE Next Gen's NYC Chapter and is on the Board of Directors for the American Advertising Federation LA. She is a community leader for the Lunar Collective and she is also part of the 2023 Jews of Color cohort The Workshop, she also serves on the advisory board of her alma mater St. Mary's LEAP Program, and is a member of Gold House and is part of their inaugural Journalism Accelerator Program

Alex is also an Actor. Some acting credits include Broadway’s How the Grinch Stole Christmas, Gillian in This Space Between Us Off Broadway’s Keen Company. TV credits include New Amsterdam, The Good Fight, and The Closer, to name a few. @AlexFChester @MixedAsianMedia

DEAR WHITE WOMEN -  Multiracial Asians - it’s time to get personal 

Why is talking about the multiracial identity and deconstructing the misperception of the Asian monolith important and relevant to you listening, if you’re not multiracial? Several things.

1. Census information - over 10% of the population identifies as multi-racial, but will changing demographics be enough to combat racism?  We don’t think so.

2. Belonging matters - and if we’re to create a thriving society, how do we ensure that multi-racial people belong? 

3. Legislation - and why we are where we are as a country.  Interracial marriages were only made legal in 1967 - 56 years ago!!   

Listen this fall for personal stories from your two biracial - Japanese and white - hosts, Sara & Misasha as they interview some must-know multi-racial folks, deconstruct history and misperceptions like the model minority myth and the false narrative of Black-on-Asian crimes, examine the power of advocacy and change and more in this powerful arc they’re kicking off on the Dear White Women podcast, a show that’s been running for 4.5 years. 

Follow Dear White Women so you don’t miss these conversations!

We do this work for our kids, and for ourselves.  And when we talk about this work, there are a lot of spheres we need to change to make this world better for said kids - including schools, kitchen tables, policing and the false idea of law & order, public services, government, and the workplace. And, to focus on workplaces for a second, we always talk about how when we discuss racism, we’re talking about the SYSTEMS that run our society – but we also make it really clear that systems are made up of people, and so if we don’t take the time to do some inner work, we won’t be making changes to the systems that’ll be meaningful and sustainable. 

That’s why we love this discussion we’re about to bring you, about reimagining inclusion in the workplace.  It was really a fantastic action-oriented book that lays out practical things that you can do in the workplace to help uproot systemic racism, literally things you can start doing differently TODAY.  And you know how much we love practical action-oriented things - it sort of reminded me of our own book’s listen/learn/act framework!

Plus, we are huge fans of Mita Mallick, who if you aren’t following on LinkedIn already, you should be.  So listen in, and if you like what you hear, go on and do two things - order the book Reimagine Inclusion, and then go tell someone at work about Mita’s work so you can bring her into your organization and deepen the change!

What to listen for:

• How Reimagine Inclusion is different from other books on DEI in the workplace

• Some of the 13 myths that Mita deconstructs

• How we should frame the role of white men and women in this work

• Where the cultures of companies seem to be headed right now  

About Mita: 

Mita Mallick is a corporate change-maker with a track record of transforming businesses. She gives innovative ideas a voice and serves customers and communities with purpose. She has had an extensive career as a marketer in the beauty and consumer product goods space, being a fierce advocate of including and representing Black and Brown communities. She is the author of Reimagine Inclusion: Debunking 13 Myths to Transform Your Workplace, being published by Wiley in October 2023.

Her passion for inclusive storytelling led her to become a Chief Diversity Officer, to build end-to-end inclusion ecosystems across big and small organizations. Mallick has brought her talent and expertise to companies like Carta, Unilever, Pfizer, AVON, Johnson & Johnson and more. She’s a sought-after speaker and coach to start-up founders, executives, and public CEOs. She is also the co-host of the popular podcast, The Brown Table Talk, part of the LinkedIn Podcast Network. On the Brown Table Talk, Mita and Dee Marshall share stories and tips on how to help Women of Color win at work, and advice for allies on how they can show up.

Mallick is a LinkedIn Top Voice, a contributor for Harvard Business Review, Adweek, Entrepreneur, and Fast Company. Mallick has been featured in The New York Times, The Washington Post, Time magazine, Forbes, Axios, Essence, Cosmopolitan magazine, and Business Insider. She was featured in a documentary created by Soledad O’Brien Productions for CBS News entitled: Women in the Workplace and the Unfinished Fight for Equality. Mallick holds a B.A. from Barnard College, Columbia University, and an M.B.A. from Duke University’s Fuqua School of Business. She lives in New Jersey, US, with her husband and two children.

They say never meet your heroes, but we’re so glad we got to meet two of ours, as they gave us the shot of hope at the end of our conversation that we all need, considering everything that’s happening around us currently. 

To be honest, we had been looking forward to this conversation ever since David Louie (Episode 212, if you want to go back and listen) made this introduction, and it was everything we had hoped it would be. Not only because Doug Jones and Bill Baxley are legal powerhouses, but also because they were just two men, doing what they believed to be right, because perhaps they were the only ones who could have fought this fight. 

And that - the power of one, standing in your beliefs and speaking up for those who cannot - is something we should all carry with us from this conversation.

What to listen for: 

• How two white men growing up in the South came to their belief in and advocacy of equal justice 

• The role that witnesses - especially the white wives of Klans members - played in the various trials, both in positive and negative ways

• What these lawyers would say to people who diminish the ongoing impact of systemic racism, and claim that “slavery happened so long ago”...

• The most powerful way young people can do so that lawmakers hear their voices

About Doug Jones: 

A celebrated prosecutor who brought long-overdue justice to the victims of the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing, Doug has built his career on fighting impossible battles. In 2017, he shocked the political establishment by winning a special election to fill a U.S. Senate seat in Alabama—the first Democrat to do so in 25 years in the state. On Capitol Hill, he quickly built a reputation as a well-regarded and effective legislator, passing more than two dozen bipartisan bills into law in just three years. 

Doug’s first job after graduating from Cumberland School of Law at Samford University was as staff counsel to the U.S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary for Sen. Howell Heflin (D-AL). Following his stint in Washington, he served as an assistant U.S. attorney from 1980 to 1984. Doug left government service in 1984 and was in the private practice of law in Birmingham, Alabama, until President Bill Clinton nominated him to the position of U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Alabama. His nomination was confirmed by the Senate in November 1997, and he served as U.S. attorney until June 2001. It was while serving in that position that he successfully prosecuted 2 of the 4 men responsible for the 1963 bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church—finally bringing full justice and closure nearly 40 years after the attack that killed four young girls. Along with taking on the Ku Klux Klan, he indicted domestic terrorist Eric Rudolph and prosecuted other criminals who sought to use fear, hatred, and violence to inhibit the rights of others.

Doug is the author of Bending Toward Justice: The Birmingham Church Bombing that Changed the Course of Civil Rights which recounts a key moment in our long national struggle for equality and the successful prosecution of two Ku Klux Klan members 40 years later.

In 2022, Doug was selected by President Joe Biden to be the Nomination Advisor for Legislative Affairs to help to guide the selection, nomination, and successful confirmation of Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson to the Supreme Court of the United States. In this role, Doug continued to upon the important relationships he had established while in Congress to help gain bipartisan support for the President’s nominee. 

Today, Doug is of Counsel with ArentFox Schiff, a Senior Distinguish Fellow with the Center for American Progress, and is involved in a variety of different political and civic organizations. Doug resides in Birmingham, AL with his wife, Louise, and dogs, Scout and Dakota. He has three children Courtney (married to Rip Andrews), Carson, and Christopher as well as two grandchildren, Ever and Ollie. 

About Bill Baxley: 

Bill Baxley was elected Attorney General at age 28. Remarkably, he was already a seasoned prosecutor, having tried dozens of jury trials as District Attorney in Houston and Henry counties. He served as Alabama's Attorney General from 1971 to 1979 and its Lieutenant Governor from 1983 to 1987. As Attorney General, Bill served as lead trial counsel in every major action on the State's behalf, civil and criminal. He aggressively prosecuted them all. He appointed the state's first African-American assistant attorney general, who later became a federal judge. His successful prosecution of Ku Klux Klansman Robert Chambliss for the 1963 bombing of Birmingham's Sixteenth Street Baptist Church is featured in the Spike Lee documentary, 4 Little Girls. His legal accomplishments are also documented in Lay Down with Dogs, Until Justice Rolls Down, and numerous other publications.

Throughout his career, Bill Baxley has served in the Alabama Army National Guard, beginning as an enlisted clerk and rising through the ranks to retire as Colonel, JAG Corps. He has successfully represented clients in the United States Supreme Court, the Alabama Supreme Court, and in appellate and trial courts over which they exercise jurisdiction. He primarily represents large business corporations yet continues to represent individuals of modest means. Those efforts have earned him the distinction of being selected as a Fellow in the International Academy of Trial Lawyers as well as being recognized by his peers as a Super Lawyer.

Also: Listen to Episode 31: Birmingham Church Bombings – How Did We Get Here on Dear White Women for a historic look at this tragedy

If you know us, you know that we love to focus on our shared humanity - in other words, the threads that bind us together, those common traits regardless of anything else, the things that make us human, after all. And so when we discovered our next guest, we felt like we found a kindred spirit - after all, his whole platform is called The Humanity Archive.

If you, as we do, believe in the power of humanity, in telling everyone’s stories, and being sure that those stories that we may not have learned in our own classes and schools growing up are being told now - especially for the sake of our children - then you’re going to want to listen to our conversation with Jermaine Fowler, read his book The Humanity Archive, and please, share your thoughts with us once you do!

What to listen for:

• How the love of a library shaped a budding historian’s future

• The central premise of humanity and how it is a thread throughout all of our histories

• The whitewashing of American history – and the role Black scholars have played in re-orienting the truth

About Jermaine: 

Jermaine Fowler is a New York Times Bestselling Author and public historian who founded The Humanity Archive, a media company that uses history to explore the stories of humanity. His work sheds light on the unsettling history and current realities of poverty, racism, and educational inequality in post-industrial cities. Jermaine offers hope by studying traditions of excellence that connect us and push us toward a better world. He teaches us how history can be a powerful tool for transformational change, uncovering our blind spots and features voices and perspectives traditionally erased from the past.