Episode Summary

Dr. Angela Cleo Smith, sociologist, conflict mediator, restorative justice practitioner, and author, joins Simma for a thoughtful conversation about identity, belonging, and communicating across differences. Growing up biracial (half Black, half white) as the youngest of 13 siblings, Angela learned firsthand what it means to feel like an outsider. Those experiences shaped her work in diversity, equity, inclusion, restorative justice, and creating genuine belonging.

Together they discuss why belonging is the missing piece in DEI, how microaggressions can become harassment, why calling people in is more effective than calling them out, and how discernment helps us respond instead of react. They also explore culture, identity, music, movies, and Angela's journey to becoming a sociology professor.

What You'll Learn

• Why belonging is essential for diversity and inclusion to succeed • The difference between microaggressions and harassment • How discernment helps improve communication and reduce conflict • Why asking "What are you?" can be harmful, and better ways to ask about someone's background • The value of calling people in rather than calling them out • How to return conflict without carrying it with you • Why culture is shaped by lived experience, not just ancestry

Key Takeaways

Belonging matters. Diversity and inclusion create opportunities, but belonging is what makes people feel accepted.

Discernment is powerful. The pause between being triggered and responding allows for thoughtful communication.

Curiosity builds connection. Honest conversations are more effective than assumptions when navigating differences.

What You'll Hear

• Angela's experience growing up biracial • The impact of "othering" on identity and belonging • What DEI really means and why belonging completes the picture • Microaggressions versus harassment • The role of discernment in difficult conversations • Better ways to ask questions about identity • Angela's upcoming book, What Do You Mean By That? • The "hot potato" approach to conflict resolution • Music, movies, and personal favorites

Timestamps

00:00 Intro & about the show 02:30 Introducing Dr. Angela Cleo Smith 05:00 Why conversations about race still matter 06:30 Growing up biracial as the youngest of 13 siblings 11:00 Finding belonging across communities 15:30 Building relationships across differences 19:00 Why "I don't see color" misses the point 21:30 After DEI: Redesigning Belonging Through Communication 28:00 Understanding DEI 33:00 Why belonging matters 36:00 Understanding "othering" 41:00 Culture and identity 46:00 Microaggressions and harassment 51:00 Calling people in vs. calling them out 55:00 Angela's career journey 1:04:00 Music favorites 1:10:00 Movies and TV 1:13:00 Final advice on discernment and critical listening 1:17:00 Where to find Angela online

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Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist, helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker, and facilitator. Simma is the creator and host of the podcast, Everyday Conversations on Race.

Contact [email protected] to get more information, book her as a speaker for your next event, help you become a more inclusive leader, or facilitate dialogues across differences.

Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information

Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)

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Previous Episodes

The 29% Problem: Steve Phillips on Race and Power Frank Carbajal on Latino Leadership: From Migrant Farmworker Son to Silicon Valley Voice Dr. Gina Paige on African Ancestry: How DNA Reconnects Black Americans to Their African Roots Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating