In this episode, we explore a simple but surprisingly deep question: what would application security look like if generative AI never existed? We break down how AppSec might still rely on deterministic, rule-based approaches, what we might gain in structure and rigor, and what we’d lose in speed, scale, and accessibility. Along the way, we debate whether AI is truly improving security or just accelerating existing problems, from “vibe coding” and false confidence in results to the growing gap between finding and fixing vulnerabilities.

We also get into the tension between human-driven security practices and AI-assisted workflows, and whether the biggest challenges in AppSec are actually technical at all or still rooted in people and process. Plus, things take a turn as we let AI weigh in…and roast us a bit in the process.

Per usual, it’s a mix of thoughtful discussion, strong opinions, and a little chaos.

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