What Is Gout? And Why Is It Called The Rich Mans Disease? Featuring Spiro Koulouris

Gout is a common complex form of arthritis. It is deposits of uric acid crystals in the tissues and fluids of your body. It can attack suddenly and wake you up in the middle of the night. Usually manifesting in the big toe, there's a feeling your toe is on fire. There is a lingering discomfort and associated inflammation and redness. Gout that is not treated will damage joints.

About Spiro

Spiro Koulouris is a leading gout diet expert, author, and blogger at goutandyou.com. He’s dedicated his life to inspiring people to obtain a healthy lifestyle and living a gout-free life. Called the “rich man’s disease”, gout is considered one of the most painful of the rheumatic conditions and is a rapidly growing problem that afflicts an alarming number of people.

It’s greatly affected by diet and those with the disease are often prescribed drugs that need to be taken for the rest of a person’s life - the side-effects creating additional problems. Spiro has battled with the disease for years and has dedicated himself to become educated and informed on the subject.

He has become an expert in the different home remedies, medicines, health practices and experiments from around the world. As the founder of GoutandYou.com Spiro is intent on educating the gout sufferer in hopes of beating this terrible disease for good.

www.goutandyou.com

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Full Transcript Below

What Is Gout? And Why Is It Called The Rich Mans Disease? Featuring Spiro Koulouris

Thu, 9/23 10:10AM • 31:06

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

gout, sufferers, uric acid, eat, diet, sugar, uric acid level, attack, doctor, joints, kidneys, foods, people, drink, painful, alcohol, helps, gout attack, pain, big toe, What is Gout, richmans disease

SPEAKERS

Terry, Spiro, Roy Barker

 

Roy Barker  00:00

Hello, and welcome to AGEUcational. This is Roy. So we are the podcast that talks about all things aging. Hopefully we can provide some help if you are in the age group as well as for caregivers, and for some of us that want to age well and age better. We talk a lot about our personal situations as well as things that are going on with our families. So we also have guests from time to time to Terry, I'll let you introduce today's guest

 

Terry  00:32

Spiro Koulouris is leading diet expert, author and blogger at scalping calm. He's dedicated his life to inspiring people to obtain a healthy lifestyle and really help free life of the rich man's disease scalp is considered one of the most painful of the Rheumatic rheumatic conditions, and is a rapidly growing problem you have klitzman alarming number of people greatly affected by diet and disease are often prescribed drugs that need to be taken for the rest of a person's life. The side effects creating additional problems spiros thank you so much for appearing on the show and explaining out to us.

 

Spiro  01:13

Thank you for having me. Yeah,

 

Roy Barker  01:14

thank you so much for your time. We've got so many questions. I've got a page full already. But before we jump in too deep, kind of what was your journey? I mean, what what brought you to this space to, you know, to be a gout expert?

 

Spiro  01:28

Well, I'm basically a patient been suffering with guilt since the age of mid 20s 2526 years old. And my story goes, one night, I was out drinking, being young, I was at the bar drinking a lot of whiskey that night, went home. And around 3am, I got struck by a gout attack in the big toe. It was very painful. I thought I had broken something down there, maybe. And so I basically went to the doctor the next day. And the doctor quickly diagnosed me as having helped, I didn't understand what that medical term was like, What is gout, they says it's something that you get, usually it's for life. And I confirm that by doing blood work. And basically, my uric acid was very high. So he told me, you would have to go on medication for the rest of your life. And that was very hard to a hard pill to swallow. Right. So I remember that first attack lasted maybe about three weeks. So it was very difficult to go to work, to chores and stuff like that. And basically, that's where it started. And then I want to learn more about the disease. So as I was doing research on Google, it couldn't find good patient information that was just medical jargon. So I decided to create a blog and explain the disease and what affects it, and what can help it. And basically, I took a deep dive into what foods you can eat, what foods you should avoid. And that's what my website got into conferences. So basically, it's a lot of helpful articles about diet tips, advice on lifestyle changes, and so on. And here we are today.

 

Roy Barker  03:24

Interesting. So if you don't mind, and this is for me, I'm sure. I'm sure a lot of people out there understand. But I had a totally different opinion, not opinion, I had a totally different belief of what gout was. And so maybe the best place to start for everybody would be just start at the beginning. And what is gout? And how does it affect this?

 

Spiro  03:47

gout is basically a form of arthritis, it's probably the most popular form of arthritis and the most painful, it affects about two to 4% of the general population. So what happens is, everybody has uric acid in their in their bloodstream. So when you eat certain foods, all foods have pureed usually meats and dairy have the highest purines. And vegetables and whole grains have the lowest for periods in there. So when you eat that your kidneys will break it down. And it takes it takes longer. And it works harder to break down meat, which is harder in periods that vegetables which is lower in periods, and that creates uric acid in the bloodstream. And when you produce too much uric acid, and it doesn't come out from the urine, basically, you can't pay it out. What happens is it crystallizes in the joints, and usually it'll crystallize you'll, it's what we call uric acid crystals will form in the joint, usually in the big toe, sometimes in the knee, and the ankle, elbow and so on, and then you'll get an attack and that's when you get painful inflammation and you can't use that joint. You can't walk basically, if it's on the big toe. If it's at the elbow, you can't move your elbow. that easily. So basically, that's the basic definition of Yup, yeah.

 

Terry  05:04

And does it affect that? So It usually starts in the show, but

 

Spiro  05:09

for the majority did you have?

 

Terry  05:11

Did you have that elsewhere? Did it spread elsewhere?

 

Spiro  05:14

Yeah, well, first I attack, it started the big toe, and then it spread in the knee. So my whole leg was locked. So I had to use crutches to get around for those couple of weeks. And then with the medication, it's subsided, and you get better.

 

Roy Barker  05:31

Is this a Is it a genetic issue was a diet that causes it or what? triggered in some verses up so

 

Spiro  05:39

for some suffers, it's genetic. But for the majority, I would say it's diet related. Because the majority of gout sufferers when they get an attack, will, they'll be overweight, in eating the wrong foods. So a lot of them the main triggers of gout is too much red meat consumption or too much protein in general, or too much alcohol, that would be the number two trigger. Alcohol also raises uric acid levels, studies have shown that, and then you could go into seafood, seafood is another culprit. And there's some other foods after that, but the main top three I would say is a meat, alcohol and seafood. And sugar. So sugar is up there with high fructose corn syrup. So those foods kidneys have trouble breaking them down easily. It takes more work. And that raises uric acid levels. So you're more risk of developing gout through diet, whereas for myself, I would say my case, my personal cases, more genetic Reason being I was born with little little fella seameo, which is a blood disorder. And that affects the kidneys. And maybe my doctor mentioned that that could be the root cause of my case with gout. So it does it's not for the majority of people, obviously, but the majority I would say would be diet.

 

Terry  07:02

Yeah. What do you say seafood is all seafood. Mostly shopping? No

 

Spiro  07:07

shellfish. Exactly. shellfish, like crab lobster and so on. has been known to raise your pest level studies has shown? Yeah,

 

Terry  07:17

okay. I mean, I think when when I was younger, I had an uncle who I think he was a drinker. And he ended up having gout. So that's why I associated it with. It's just, and when when, when you said it's called the rich man's disease, what did that mean? And then what's what do you miss?

 

Spiro  07:42

So the rich man's disease or basically goes back to the kings and queens of England and France. The aristocracy back then had access to rich foods. So they will be the ones that had access to wine, or alcohol, sweets, right? And written lots of lots of meat, lots of protein. So they were known to get together tax, whereas the peasants would only complex carbohydrates, whatever, they will grow in their farm. So a lot of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, right. So that's where the term came from. That's where it evolved. Basically, it's the the kings and queens who had access to rich foods and rich, lots of alcohol so

 

Terry  08:26

well, and you were and you said, most people get it, you know, 50 and up, but you're in your 20s.

 

Spiro  08:37

Yeah, for me, it was more genetic again, but I was overweight as well. At that time, I was about 4050 pounds overweight. I was Alina eating a lot of McDonald's, having a lot of Big Macs and drinking a lot of soft drinks, which is high in sugar, and high fructose corn syrup. In combination with my genetic issue with minor thalassemia. I got at a young age usually it's very rare. Well, not rare. I would say a small percentage gets it before the age of 40. And then as you get older, the odds are increasing.

 

Roy Barker  09:13

So I guess that's something I was thinking about when you say like, high protein. So if people are doing keto, if they're overweight, and they're trying to do keto, get blood sugar down and all that are they running a risk of getting getting

 

Spiro  09:30

1. It's not an ideal diet for gout sufferers, maybe for somebody else a train or somebody who trains keto diet, but I do have an article that goes into detail on my website on the ketogenic diet. The diet I advocate for gout sufferers is the following. You've got to eat 80% of your daily calories, that's complex carbohydrates. So that means fresh vegetables, legumes, some fruit 100%, whole grain breads, 100% whole grain races and pass those not the white stuff. The brown stuff as that breaks down clean in your body in the kidneys don't have a hard time breaking it down 10% of your daily calories can be protein. So you could have some lean chicken breast, some red meat, not too much, make sure it's lean. Turkey is good fresh fish like salmon, or had up and so on. But avoid the organ meats. Avoid the processed meats and avoid the seafood like lobster, shrimp, and crabs and so on. Because those meats will raise uric acid much more than the ones I mentioned. And then the final 10% of your daily calories can be, in fact. So again, you could have some dairy like milk, eggs, cheese, butter, and so on. So you've noticed the 20% comes from animal based foods. But that's where the trouble is. Forgot suffers. It's not to eat too much animal based foods because they're higher generally higher in appearance and plant basis healthier for delta for exactly.

 

Roy Barker  11:05

So if you go to the doctor and you just do a, like a panel to look at your nutrients, do they do uric acid with that? Or is that something that you would specifically have to ask for to see if yours is elevated?

 

Spiro  11:19

Or you're saying to test to do a blood test to see where you're at Castle level? golra? Yeah, definitely the doctor. The doctor will tell you what paperwork to fill out to go to the bloodwork and then basically they're looking for uric acid level uric acid level it has to be at six milligram do so not over that anything over that is high risk. Some people though, can have high uric acid not be symptomatic, it does occur. But eventually, they'll pay the price will probably get attacked, but you want to keep it below six mg DL, I would say four and a half and below is even safer. for for for gap.

 

Terry  11:57

But is that something that you would specifically have to ask for that test? Or is that? Yes, yes. The normal testing that they do. They're just testing for your nutrient nutrient.

 

Spiro  12:12

What do you mean by the nutrients diet? Well,

 

Roy Barker  12:14

just like if, if I go and tell my doctor full blood panel, he'll look at your cholesterol, the sugar, and I just wondered if you're a gas and balls in that gym is

 

Spiro  12:25

usually for the general No, no, usually it's in the general. Okay. Okay, good. Yeah. Yeah, cuz I've done a common test. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  12:32

I've never I've just never paid attention to it. But I think Yeah, next time I certainly will.

 

Spiro  12:38

Next semester doctor Exactly. What is my uric acid level that the he'll be able to tell you? But usually doctors won't mention if you're not out of range. So maybe that's the case. Yeah.

 

Terry  12:48

Well, and Roy eating Oregon's

 

Spiro  13:01

I tried some liver, and but even that it's hard to swallow.

 

Roy Barker  13:05

Oh my gosh, yeah. I'll have to tell my dad he needs to check because he, him and him and his buddy. Every Wednesday they went to this cafe that they serve liver and onions. And then Oh, boy. I Well, I was a kid at the time. And when I would be with him, I'd take my sack lunch and have my peanut butter sandwich. I couldn't eat. That's a

 

Spiro  13:25

better choice.

 

Roy Barker  13:26

Yeah, yeah. So what about the pain? You know, you said that you had to it took you out of work. You had to use crutches. But I guess kind of if you could describe the feeling. So maybe somebody could differentiate if it's, you know, gout versus just, you know, stubbed their toe on the bedpost that not?

 

Spiro  13:47

Yeah, so yeah, this is probably the most painful, they say. It's like you stubbed your toe, but it's continuous pain that never goes away. So you're limping a lot. When you get in the big toe, what I suggest got suffers due to relieve some of the pain is they could soak it in warm water a couple of times a day with some Epsom salts, and that should remove some of the inflammation. You could even ice it if you want. I've done that. That helps temporarily. But the best would be to take some ibuprofen, some Advil. And then you could walk around it makes the pain more bearable, I would say until you go see a doctor. And usually when you get painful attack, they'll prescribe you medication called culture sin, which works really fast. You take it a couple of times a day and within a couple, two, three days you could be the pain is almost gone. For most. So yeah, it's I would say it's very painful to fatten the knee when you have an a knee, your knee becomes like a big inflamed tennis ball and it basically locks so You'd have to use crutches. I've never had it in many other joints though. So wouldn't be able to say for elbows fingers.

 

Roy Barker  15:06

Well, if it's in your in your toe, and I'm just trying to gauge the the pain threshold, is it like just a throbbing like, Oh, I feel something? Or is it like one of the Oh notating pain, like I just can't take anymore? It's like somebody stabbed your

 

Spiro  15:21

big toe. Wow, can you it's Yeah, it's really inflamed. Yeah. It's so sensitive that you can't even put a bedsheet on it while you sleep. Oh, even that is heavy enough for that.

 

Roy Barker  15:35

Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

 

Terry  15:37

And so what kind of what, what could you do? Like, if you're having an attack, and it's, you know, middle of the night or whatever? Is there anything that you could take? Naturally? Is there like, something that you could,

 

Spiro  15:51

I would say I believe a person will work the best. always recommend that. Well, if you're a gout sufferer, you should have coaches in at home. Because if you get an attack, you just grab that right away. And then the pain. Yeah, oh, yeah. Even Benjamin Franklin who had gal used to import or when you traveled from Europe to back to the US, he would bring the colcrys plant with him, because he had gout. And that is what cultures in his base that have is from the colcrys plant. And that's how he would treat himself with his bouts of gout.

 

Roy Barker  16:28

So what about water intake?

 

Spiro  16:31

I know that that has a lot to do with helping flush stuff out of our system. Is that kind of Yes. dehydration. So part of that or Yes. So I recommend gout sufferers drink lots and lots of water usually go to 12 cups a day. Because that helps to flush out excess uric acid levels, and it helps the kidneys function better and excrete that uric acid. Definitely. Yeah, that that's a key point for gout sufferers is dogs be well hydrated. And if they're not, especially on holidays. That could be a gout trigger. You could get an attack if you don't drink enough water and it's hot. And

 

Terry  17:08

stay away from sugary drinks. Yeah,

 

Spiro  17:12

exactly. Yes, exactly.

 

Roy Barker  17:14

So what do you say that you can set it off? So I guess, is this something that's always gonna be underlying for you? And that you if you manage it through your diet and lifestyle, you can probably prevent it? Or do you know, does it something that just will sneak up on you and just attack you? You know, when you least expect it? Or maybe you ate a little something, you know that you didn't understand exactly what was Yeah, what you just stayed in, it just sets it off. Well,

 

Spiro  17:46

if you're already gout suffer, I recommend that the ideal diet which is 80%, complex carb, carbohydrates, 10% protein 10% fat, what you want to do is control it and maintain it you you don't want because I know some gold sufferers. They'll take allopurinol, which is the medication that controls uric acid. But keep eating lobster and drinking alcohol and red meat and what the what does that do it worsens your condition over time. And what the doctor will do eventually is raise your allopurinol medication each time from let's say, 300 milligrams to 400. And then 500 It's essential your worsening your health doing that so try and stick to it more disciplined diet that advocates on the on my website and the book. And if you're not a gout sufferer already, I mean, yeah, you could, I recommend you you eat well. A good balanced diet, try and avoid that Western diet of too much red meat, too much alcohol and too much sugar.

 

Roy Barker  18:49

So on your on your website, I was looking at the a couple of your titles that were interesting. The first one was gout in garlic. Yeah. I just thought it was garlic. Garlic supposed to be?

 

Spiro  19:06

Well, liver and kidneys work together when they break down foods and purines. So garlic helps to cleanse the liver, which makes it function better. So that's the main benefit there. Garlic. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  19:21

Garlic, so yeah,

 

Terry  19:23

other herbs and yeah, for

 

Spiro  19:26

gout. I would say celery seeds are good. Celery seeds help you to urinate more, so you flush out more uric acid. After that you got tumeric which is a great space. You could have ginger as well which helps with inflammation. cherries are very popular with gout sufferers there's been a study that it shows to lower uric acid. So that's why a lot of gout sufferers will buy tart cherry extract usually as a supplement or a lot of cherries during the summer. Let's go on. There's some other superfoods for gout sufferers bromelain which is found in pineapple again, that helps with inflammation. dandelion. dandelions help with the liver to cleanse the liver and the kidneys. Basically, foods like that. Shakopee Edra, which is another herb helps to cleanse the kidneys, anything that helps to really help the liver and the kidneys. it's beneficial for gout sufferers. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  20:29

And, and you know, we're taping this in late September. So Thanksgiving is on the horizon. People are thinking about that. And I noticed that you have an article about that gout and Thanksgiving.

 

Spiro  20:41

Yes. Yeah. So I get a lot of emails around Thanksgiving time of people getting their first gout attacks asking for advice. So that's why that holiday is very dangerous for a lot of people because they eat a lot of protein that day. They drink a lot of alcohol, and then that night, they'll get their gut attack and contact me for advice. So watch out during Thanksgiving, do not overeat. Do not over drink. That's the only advice I can give you not to get your first scouted back.

 

Terry  21:12

Is it prevalent for women?

 

Spiro  21:17

Mostly? mostly men? Yeah. I would say 75% 25 woman, woman have the hormone estrogen that protects them until menopause after menopause are at a higher risk. There the percentages of women getting gout increases. And for four races, yes, there studies that shows African Americans are more prone to get gout compared to Caucasians. There's some other parts of the world where there's higher incidence of gout, I would say, Papua New Guinea, I think New Zealand, the natives there, they're going to have to get a lot of gout. And I think it has to do with their diet, which is more high protein. Just like the natives here, it's a lot of high protein. And a lot of studies show they don't balance wealth, complex carbohydrates, fruits and so on vegetables. So yeah, I would say that then with the African Americans, right? They're known to eat more protein as well in their diet. So that could be a reason why.

 

Roy Barker  22:26

So what about exercise sedentary versus exercise? Does exercise help to maybe help? Well maybe not help with the onset, but help us not get it? Or does it help once you have

 

Spiro  22:40

to control it? Yeah, so exercise will help control uric acid. And it helps to obviously strengthen the joints. So if you've got gout attacks in the past, it weakens the joints. So you need to do some type of resistance training, some weight training, like I do, to help rebuild the cartilage joints, and so on the strength of the bones and so on. So, if you're a gout sufferer, I strongly recommend, and you also want to keep the ideal weight. That's another important factor. You don't want to be overweight. So you want to basically add that lifestyle back to exercise. If you don't want to go to the gym, you can work every day, at least half an hour. 45 minutes, do you 10,000 steps, do something that helps the heart, the body, so on to control uric acid.

 

Roy Barker  23:32

That's funny. This is sounding. It's sounding a lot like diabetes. And so I'm wondering, what is there a correlation between Yeah, and diabetes and me because it kind of starts in your, in your kidneys as well.

 

Spiro  23:46

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So diabetics are higher risk of developing gout and gout sufferers are a higher risk of developing diabetes, I would say it's probably the most popular risk out there for for both. So again, it's connected to sugar. And there are a lot of studies lately coming out that sugar, high fructose corn syrup, and all that is probably more important factor than we think, for triggering gout. So, again, I recommend you, you consume 25 grams a day of sugar around instead of the recommended 5052 grams, I believe from the World Health Association, or our world health organization. And it's something that you need to keep track of, because it's very dangerous for either diabetes or goats. So if you have either condition, your risk of developing the other condition, so to tread carefully with sugar, you

 

Terry  24:56

know, a lot for a lot of things. Yeah, you asked

 

Roy Barker  25:02

me, What about artificial sweeteners? I know sometimes we make the switch from regular coke to diet. But then if they say that the artificial sweetener, it can trigger as bad or worse than regular sugar.

 

Spiro  25:15

It can there's not enough studies on that yet. But I would stay away from them. Because it does change your metabolism the way you metabolize foods and your system and all that. And it's artificial. So I would say I don't know, but there's no proof yet that it triggers a gout attack. So for that reason,

 

Roy Barker  25:39

well, no, we'll just say from my own experience in the last couple of weeks, you know, I've been struggling with my blood sugar previously, and then I have really well, I didn't drink any water, too many diet cokes. got off the diet cokes, not even having any but really up my water intake to yes, no, but maybe 12 to even maybe 14 cups or glasses a day. And it's really helped my blood sugar in anyway, I know, there may not work exactly the same, but it's just something I would suggest is really, I think re hydrating, making sure you're hydrating and drinking enough. And if you're bigger, like me, you know, the eight glasses a day may not be enough. I think nowadays they're saying you know, you really need to base it on your weight as well. So, yes, somebody is out there suffering just something to try to flush as much of that uric acid out of your body as soon as possible. Yes. Because believe me, I'm always in the boys in the bathroom now. A bathroom anymore, but it's made me feel so much better. It's interesting, because I've just never been a water drinker. I don't like it. But I think it's, it can really get to good things for

 

Spiro  27:03

the only thing I would say about sugar is it's very addictive. So it increases the pleasure part of the brain there. And what the key is to basically less and less, it's gonna take time, but it's an addiction. So and your brain really reacts when it has sugar. So if you feed it less less, then the cravings slowly disappear, right, I'll be the key to beating eating too much sugar.

 

Roy Barker  27:32

That's an interesting point you bring up because it's like, I haven't been eating sugar for the last three or four weeks, we've made a very conscious effort to just get away from it all together. Because I'm not very good at just eating a little bit, you know? Yeah. If a little bit it's good for you, though, if a little bit makes you feel good, lots even better. So yeah, just cutting that out. You know, it's, it has reduced my cravings. I'm not nearly as asking Terry all the time to, you know, bring home a snack or something like that. When you're eating those all the time. It's like, you just want more and more and more.

 

Spiro  28:08

Yeah, and it makes you hungry of sugar. If you consume too much sugar makes you hungrier, so you want more and you eat more and more calories and you increase your weight. And I've

 

Terry  28:16

gotten good at hiding. You know, my little pee, you know, I can just I can just have one or two bites. And I was always like, yes, that's what I'm very lucky.

 

Spiro  28:27

Yeah, have one two bites of something you really like and that takes away the cravings and you enjoy that. One minute of chewing that piece of whatever dessert you love. That's what I

 

Roy Barker  28:37

yeah. Well, Spiro, thanks so much for taking time to be with us. It's been a very educational lot. I have learned a lot. Is there anything else? Is there? Are there any other points that you want to make to the audience before we start wrapping? 

 

Spiro  28:52

Oh we had a good conversation. pretty lengthy, we touched a lot of points. I think we've covered pretty much all if somebody wants to learn more about go just visit my website goutandyou.com. There's over 150 articles. There. So on any subject and if you have any questions email me, I answer all emails, usually within 24 hours. You can contact me directly. I also have a book that you could purchase and learn more about the gout diet. And that's pretty much it.

 

Roy Barker  29:24

what's what's the name of the book again?

 

Spiro  29:25

Gout And You, The Ultimate Gout Diet and Cookbook. There are about 100 recipes to get you started as well. Oh, yeah.

 

Roy Barker  29:33

Is there a contact form on your website? Do they just need to go over there and contact? Yeah,

 

Spiro  29:37

no, there's an email on the contact page. So it's basically info at gout and new calm Okay, no questions.

 

Terry  29:44

Thank you for providing all of this. Just very enlightening information and thank you so many things to look out for as you're aging but this this has been very, very beneficial.

 

Roy Barker  29:59

Yeah. Go and check the website out. There's a lot of great articles. Like I said, I was just thumbing down through here and you know, some of the more relevant ones for us because you know, we like garlic, we cook everything garlic, so that's interesting. But, you know, there's the gout and sports out and specialists, you know, a lot of great information. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, again, thanks so much. that's gonna do it for another episode of AGEUcational Of course, I am Roy and you can find us at www.AGEUcational. com We're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify. If we're not a one that you listened to please reach out I'd be glad to add it. We're on all the major social media platforms as well we tend to hang out on histogram so we'd love to interact with you over there and copy our a video This episode will go live on our YouTube channel when the episode goes up. Please check it out as well. Some of our past guests very informative. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

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