AGEUcational

What Is Gout? And Why Is It Called The Rich Mans Disease? Featuring Spiro Koulouris

Gout is a common complex form of arthritis. It is deposits of uric acid crystals in the tissues and fluids of your body. It can attack suddenly and wake you up in the middle of the night. Usually manifesting in the big toe, there's a feeling your toe is on fire. There is a lingering discomfort and associated inflammation and redness. Gout that is not treated will damage joints.

About Spiro

Spiro Koulouris is a leading gout diet expert, author, and blogger at goutandyou.com. He’s dedicated his life to inspiring people to obtain a healthy lifestyle and living a gout-free life. Called the “rich man’s disease”, gout is considered one of the most painful of the rheumatic conditions and is a rapidly growing problem that afflicts an alarming number of people.

It’s greatly affected by diet and those with the disease are often prescribed drugs that need to be taken for the rest of a person’s life - the side-effects creating additional problems. Spiro has battled with the disease for years and has dedicated himself to become educated and informed on the subject.

He has become an expert in the different home remedies, medicines, health practices and experiments from around the world. As the founder of GoutandYou.com Spiro is intent on educating the gout sufferer in hopes of beating this terrible disease for good.

www.goutandyou.com

www.AGEUcational.com

Full Transcript Below

What Is Gout? And Why Is It Called The Rich Mans Disease? Featuring Spiro Koulouris

Thu, 9/23 10:10AM • 31:06

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

gout, sufferers, uric acid, eat, diet, sugar, uric acid level, attack, doctor, joints, kidneys, foods, people, drink, painful, alcohol, helps, gout attack, pain, big toe, What is Gout, richmans disease

SPEAKERS

Terry, Spiro, Roy Barker

 

Roy Barker  00:00

Hello, and welcome to AGEUcational. This is Roy. So we are the podcast that talks about all things aging. Hopefully we can provide some help if you are in the age group as well as for caregivers, and for some of us that want to age well and age better. We talk a lot about our personal situations as well as things that are going on with our families. So we also have guests from time to time to Terry, I'll let you introduce today's guest

 

Terry  00:32

Spiro Koulouris is leading diet expert, author and blogger at scalping calm. He's dedicated his life to inspiring people to obtain a healthy lifestyle and really help free life of the rich man's disease scalp is considered one of the most painful of the Rheumatic rheumatic conditions, and is a rapidly growing problem you have klitzman alarming number of people greatly affected by diet and disease are often prescribed drugs that need to be taken for the rest of a person's life. The side effects creating additional problems spiros thank you so much for appearing on the show and explaining out to us.

 

Spiro  01:13

Thank you for having me. Yeah,

 

Roy Barker  01:14

thank you so much for your time. We've got so many questions. I've got a page full already. But before we jump in too deep, kind of what was your journey? I mean, what what brought you to this space to, you know, to be a gout expert?

 

Spiro  01:28

Well, I'm basically a patient been suffering with guilt since the age of mid 20s 2526 years old. And my story goes, one night, I was out drinking, being young, I was at the bar drinking a lot of whiskey that night, went home. And around 3am, I got struck by a gout attack in the big toe. It was very painful. I thought I had broken something down there, maybe. And so I basically went to the doctor the next day. And the doctor quickly diagnosed me as having helped, I didn't understand what that medical term was like, What is gout, they says it's something that you get, usually it's for life. And I confirm that by doing blood work. And basically, my uric acid was very high. So he told me, you would have to go on medication for the rest of your life. And that was very hard to a hard pill to swallow. Right. So I remember that first attack lasted maybe about three weeks. So it was very difficult to go to work, to chores and stuff like that. And basically, that's where it started. And then I want to learn more about the disease. So as I was doing research on Google, it couldn't find good patient information that was just medical jargon. So I decided to create a blog and explain the disease and what affects it, and what can help it. And basically, I took a deep dive into what foods you can eat, what foods you should avoid. And that's what my website got into conferences. So basically, it's a lot of helpful articles about diet tips, advice on lifestyle changes, and so on. And here we are today.

 

Roy Barker  03:24

Interesting. So if you don't mind, and this is for me, I'm sure. I'm sure a lot of people out there understand. But I had a totally different opinion, not opinion, I had a totally different belief of what gout was. And so maybe the best place to start for everybody would be just start at the beginning. And what is gout? And how does it affect this?

 

Spiro  03:47

gout is basically a form of arthritis, it's probably the most popular form of arthritis and the most painful, it affects about two to 4% of the general population. So what happens is, everybody has uric acid in their in their bloodstream. So when you eat certain foods, all foods have pureed usually meats and dairy have the highest purines. And vegetables and whole grains have the lowest for periods in there. So when you eat that your kidneys will break it down. And it takes it takes longer. And it works harder to break down meat, which is harder in periods that vegetables which is lower in periods, and that creates uric acid in the bloodstream. And when you produce too much uric acid, and it doesn't come out from the urine, basically, you can't pay it out. What happens is it crystallizes in the joints, and usually it'll crystallize you'll, it's what we call uric acid crystals will form in the joint, usually in the big toe, sometimes in the knee, and the ankle, elbow and so on, and then you'll get an attack and that's when you get painful inflammation and you can't use that joint. You can't walk basically, if it's on the big toe. If it's at the elbow, you can't move your elbow. that easily. So basically, that's the basic definition of Yup, yeah.

 

Terry  05:04

And does it affect that? So It usually starts in the show, but

 

Spiro  05:09

for the majority did you have?

 

Terry  05:11

Did you have that elsewhere? Did it spread elsewhere?

 

Spiro  05:14

Yeah, well, first I attack, it started the big toe, and then it spread in the knee. So my whole leg was locked. So I had to use crutches to get around for those couple of weeks. And then with the medication, it's subsided, and you get better.

 

Roy Barker  05:31

Is this a Is it a genetic issue was a diet that causes it or what? triggered in some verses up so

 

Spiro  05:39

for some suffers, it's genetic. But for the majority, I would say it's diet related. Because the majority of gout sufferers when they get an attack, will, they'll be overweight, in eating the wrong foods. So a lot of them the main triggers of gout is too much red meat consumption or too much protein in general, or too much alcohol, that would be the number two trigger. Alcohol also raises uric acid levels, studies have shown that, and then you could go into seafood, seafood is another culprit. And there's some other foods after that, but the main top three I would say is a meat, alcohol and seafood. And sugar. So sugar is up there with high fructose corn syrup. So those foods kidneys have trouble breaking them down easily. It takes more work. And that raises uric acid levels. So you're more risk of developing gout through diet, whereas for myself, I would say my case, my personal cases, more genetic Reason being I was born with little little fella seameo, which is a blood disorder. And that affects the kidneys. And maybe my doctor mentioned that that could be the root cause of my case with gout. So it does it's not for the majority of people, obviously, but the majority I would say would be diet.

 

Terry  07:02

Yeah. What do you say seafood is all seafood. Mostly shopping? No

 

Spiro  07:07

shellfish. Exactly. shellfish, like crab lobster and so on. has been known to raise your pest level studies has shown? Yeah,

 

Terry  07:17

okay. I mean, I think when when I was younger, I had an uncle who I think he was a drinker. And he ended up having gout. So that's why I associated it with. It's just, and when when, when you said it's called the rich man's disease, what did that mean? And then what's what do you miss?

 

Spiro  07:42

So the rich man's disease or basically goes back to the kings and queens of England and France. The aristocracy back then had access to rich foods. So they will be the ones that had access to wine, or alcohol, sweets, right? And written lots of lots of meat, lots of protein. So they were known to get together tax, whereas the peasants would only complex carbohydrates, whatever, they will grow in their farm. So a lot of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, right. So that's where the term came from. That's where it evolved. Basically, it's the the kings and queens who had access to rich foods and rich, lots of alcohol so

 

Terry  08:26

well, and you were and you said, most people get it, you know, 50 and up, but you're in your 20s.

 

Spiro  08:37

Yeah, for me, it was more genetic again, but I was overweight as well. At that time, I was about 4050 pounds overweight. I was Alina eating a lot of McDonald's, having a lot of Big Macs and drinking a lot of soft drinks, which is high in sugar, and high fructose corn syrup. In combination with my genetic issue with minor thalassemia. I got at a young age usually it's very rare. Well, not rare. I would say a small percentage gets it before the age of 40. And then as you get older, the odds are increasing.

 

Roy Barker  09:13

So I guess that's something I was thinking about when you say like, high protein. So if people are doing keto, if they're overweight, and they're trying to do keto, get blood sugar down and all that are they running a risk of getting getting

 

Spiro  09:30

1. It's not an ideal diet for gout sufferers, maybe for somebody else a train or somebody who trains keto diet, but I do have an article that goes into detail on my website on the ketogenic diet. The diet I advocate for gout sufferers is the following. You've got to eat 80% of your daily calories, that's complex carbohydrates. So that means fresh vegetables, legumes, some fruit 100%, whole grain breads, 100% whole grain races and pass those not the white stuff. The brown stuff as that breaks down clean in your body in the kidneys don't have a hard time breaking it down 10% of your daily calories can be protein. So you could have some lean chicken breast, some red meat, not too much, make sure it's lean. Turkey is good fresh fish like salmon, or had up and so on. But avoid the organ meats. Avoid the processed meats and avoid the seafood like lobster, shrimp, and crabs and so on. Because those meats will raise uric acid much more than the ones I mentioned. And then the final 10% of your daily calories can be, in fact. So again, you could have some dairy like milk, eggs, cheese, butter, and so on. So you've noticed the 20% comes from animal based foods. But that's where the trouble is. Forgot suffers. It's not to eat too much animal based foods because they're higher generally higher in appearance and plant basis healthier for delta for exactly.

 

Roy Barker  11:05

So if you go to the doctor and you just do a, like a panel to look at your nutrients, do they do uric acid with that? Or is that something that you would specifically have to ask for to see if yours is elevated?

 

Spiro  11:19

Or you're saying to test to do a blood test to see where you're at Castle level? golra? Yeah, definitely the doctor. The doctor will tell you what paperwork to fill out to go to the bloodwork and then basically they're looking for uric acid level uric acid level it has to be at six milligram do so not over that anything over that is high risk. Some people though, can have high uric acid not be symptomatic, it does occur. But eventually, they'll pay the price will probably get attacked, but you want to keep it below six mg DL, I would say four and a half and below is even safer. for for for gap.

 

Terry  11:57

But is that something that you would specifically have to ask for that test? Or is that? Yes, yes. The normal testing that they do. They're just testing for your nutrient nutrient.

 

Spiro  12:12

What do you mean by the nutrients diet? Well,

 

Roy Barker  12:14

just like if, if I go and tell my doctor full blood panel, he'll look at your cholesterol, the sugar, and I just wondered if you're a gas and balls in that gym is

 

Spiro  12:25

usually for the general No, no, usually it's in the general. Okay. Okay, good. Yeah. Yeah, cuz I've done a common test. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  12:32

I've never I've just never paid attention to it. But I think Yeah, next time I certainly will.

 

Spiro  12:38

Next semester doctor Exactly. What is my uric acid level that the he'll be able to tell you? But usually doctors won't mention if you're not out of range. So maybe that's the case. Yeah.

 

Terry  12:48

Well, and Roy eating Oregon's

 

Spiro  13:01

I tried some liver, and but even that it's hard to swallow.

 

Roy Barker  13:05

Oh my gosh, yeah. I'll have to tell my dad he needs to check because he, him and him and his buddy. Every Wednesday they went to this cafe that they serve liver and onions. And then Oh, boy. I Well, I was a kid at the time. And when I would be with him, I'd take my sack lunch and have my peanut butter sandwich. I couldn't eat. That's a

 

Spiro  13:25

better choice.

 

Roy Barker  13:26

Yeah, yeah. So what about the pain? You know, you said that you had to it took you out of work. You had to use crutches. But I guess kind of if you could describe the feeling. So maybe somebody could differentiate if it's, you know, gout versus just, you know, stubbed their toe on the bedpost that not?

 

Spiro  13:47

Yeah, so yeah, this is probably the most painful, they say. It's like you stubbed your toe, but it's continuous pain that never goes away. So you're limping a lot. When you get in the big toe, what I suggest got suffers due to relieve some of the pain is they could soak it in warm water a couple of times a day with some Epsom salts, and that should remove some of the inflammation. You could even ice it if you want. I've done that. That helps temporarily. But the best would be to take some ibuprofen, some Advil. And then you could walk around it makes the pain more bearable, I would say until you go see a doctor. And usually when you get painful attack, they'll prescribe you medication called culture sin, which works really fast. You take it a couple of times a day and within a couple, two, three days you could be the pain is almost gone. For most. So yeah, it's I would say it's very painful to fatten the knee when you have an a knee, your knee becomes like a big inflamed tennis ball and it basically locks so You'd have to use crutches. I've never had it in many other joints though. So wouldn't be able to say for elbows fingers.

 

Roy Barker  15:06

Well, if it's in your in your toe, and I'm just trying to gauge the the pain threshold, is it like just a throbbing like, Oh, I feel something? Or is it like one of the Oh notating pain, like I just can't take anymore? It's like somebody stabbed your

 

Spiro  15:21

big toe. Wow, can you it's Yeah, it's really inflamed. Yeah. It's so sensitive that you can't even put a bedsheet on it while you sleep. Oh, even that is heavy enough for that.

 

Roy Barker  15:35

Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

 

Terry  15:37

And so what kind of what, what could you do? Like, if you're having an attack, and it's, you know, middle of the night or whatever? Is there anything that you could take? Naturally? Is there like, something that you could,

 

Spiro  15:51

I would say I believe a person will work the best. always recommend that. Well, if you're a gout sufferer, you should have coaches in at home. Because if you get an attack, you just grab that right away. And then the pain. Yeah, oh, yeah. Even Benjamin Franklin who had gal used to import or when you traveled from Europe to back to the US, he would bring the colcrys plant with him, because he had gout. And that is what cultures in his base that have is from the colcrys plant. And that's how he would treat himself with his bouts of gout.

 

Roy Barker  16:28

So what about water intake?

 

Spiro  16:31

I know that that has a lot to do with helping flush stuff out of our system. Is that kind of Yes. dehydration. So part of that or Yes. So I recommend gout sufferers drink lots and lots of water usually go to 12 cups a day. Because that helps to flush out excess uric acid levels, and it helps the kidneys function better and excrete that uric acid. Definitely. Yeah, that that's a key point for gout sufferers is dogs be well hydrated. And if they're not, especially on holidays. That could be a gout trigger. You could get an attack if you don't drink enough water and it's hot. And

 

Terry  17:08

stay away from sugary drinks. Yeah,

 

Spiro  17:12

exactly. Yes, exactly.

 

Roy Barker  17:14

So what do you say that you can set it off? So I guess, is this something that's always gonna be underlying for you? And that you if you manage it through your diet and lifestyle, you can probably prevent it? Or do you know, does it something that just will sneak up on you and just attack you? You know, when you least expect it? Or maybe you ate a little something, you know that you didn't understand exactly what was Yeah, what you just stayed in, it just sets it off. Well,

 

Spiro  17:46

if you're already gout suffer, I recommend that the ideal diet which is 80%, complex carb, carbohydrates, 10% protein 10% fat, what you want to do is control it and maintain it you you don't want because I know some gold sufferers. They'll take allopurinol, which is the medication that controls uric acid. But keep eating lobster and drinking alcohol and red meat and what the what does that do it worsens your condition over time. And what the doctor will do eventually is raise your allopurinol medication each time from let's say, 300 milligrams to 400. And then 500 It's essential your worsening your health doing that so try and stick to it more disciplined diet that advocates on the on my website and the book. And if you're not a gout sufferer already, I mean, yeah, you could, I recommend you you eat well. A good balanced diet, try and avoid that Western diet of too much red meat, too much alcohol and too much sugar.

 

Roy Barker  18:49

So on your on your website, I was looking at the a couple of your titles that were interesting. The first one was gout in garlic. Yeah. I just thought it was garlic. Garlic supposed to be?

 

Spiro  19:06

Well, liver and kidneys work together when they break down foods and purines. So garlic helps to cleanse the liver, which makes it function better. So that's the main benefit there. Garlic. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  19:21

Garlic, so yeah,

 

Terry  19:23

other herbs and yeah, for

 

Spiro  19:26

gout. I would say celery seeds are good. Celery seeds help you to urinate more, so you flush out more uric acid. After that you got tumeric which is a great space. You could have ginger as well which helps with inflammation. cherries are very popular with gout sufferers there's been a study that it shows to lower uric acid. So that's why a lot of gout sufferers will buy tart cherry extract usually as a supplement or a lot of cherries during the summer. Let's go on. There's some other superfoods for gout sufferers bromelain which is found in pineapple again, that helps with inflammation. dandelion. dandelions help with the liver to cleanse the liver and the kidneys. Basically, foods like that. Shakopee Edra, which is another herb helps to cleanse the kidneys, anything that helps to really help the liver and the kidneys. it's beneficial for gout sufferers. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  20:29

And, and you know, we're taping this in late September. So Thanksgiving is on the horizon. People are thinking about that. And I noticed that you have an article about that gout and Thanksgiving.

 

Spiro  20:41

Yes. Yeah. So I get a lot of emails around Thanksgiving time of people getting their first gout attacks asking for advice. So that's why that holiday is very dangerous for a lot of people because they eat a lot of protein that day. They drink a lot of alcohol, and then that night, they'll get their gut attack and contact me for advice. So watch out during Thanksgiving, do not overeat. Do not over drink. That's the only advice I can give you not to get your first scouted back.

 

Terry  21:12

Is it prevalent for women?

 

Spiro  21:17

Mostly? mostly men? Yeah. I would say 75% 25 woman, woman have the hormone estrogen that protects them until menopause after menopause are at a higher risk. There the percentages of women getting gout increases. And for four races, yes, there studies that shows African Americans are more prone to get gout compared to Caucasians. There's some other parts of the world where there's higher incidence of gout, I would say, Papua New Guinea, I think New Zealand, the natives there, they're going to have to get a lot of gout. And I think it has to do with their diet, which is more high protein. Just like the natives here, it's a lot of high protein. And a lot of studies show they don't balance wealth, complex carbohydrates, fruits and so on vegetables. So yeah, I would say that then with the African Americans, right? They're known to eat more protein as well in their diet. So that could be a reason why.

 

Roy Barker  22:26

So what about exercise sedentary versus exercise? Does exercise help to maybe help? Well maybe not help with the onset, but help us not get it? Or does it help once you have

 

Spiro  22:40

to control it? Yeah, so exercise will help control uric acid. And it helps to obviously strengthen the joints. So if you've got gout attacks in the past, it weakens the joints. So you need to do some type of resistance training, some weight training, like I do, to help rebuild the cartilage joints, and so on the strength of the bones and so on. So, if you're a gout sufferer, I strongly recommend, and you also want to keep the ideal weight. That's another important factor. You don't want to be overweight. So you want to basically add that lifestyle back to exercise. If you don't want to go to the gym, you can work every day, at least half an hour. 45 minutes, do you 10,000 steps, do something that helps the heart, the body, so on to control uric acid.

 

Roy Barker  23:32

That's funny. This is sounding. It's sounding a lot like diabetes. And so I'm wondering, what is there a correlation between Yeah, and diabetes and me because it kind of starts in your, in your kidneys as well.

 

Spiro  23:46

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So diabetics are higher risk of developing gout and gout sufferers are a higher risk of developing diabetes, I would say it's probably the most popular risk out there for for both. So again, it's connected to sugar. And there are a lot of studies lately coming out that sugar, high fructose corn syrup, and all that is probably more important factor than we think, for triggering gout. So, again, I recommend you, you consume 25 grams a day of sugar around instead of the recommended 5052 grams, I believe from the World Health Association, or our world health organization. And it's something that you need to keep track of, because it's very dangerous for either diabetes or goats. So if you have either condition, your risk of developing the other condition, so to tread carefully with sugar, you

 

Terry  24:56

know, a lot for a lot of things. Yeah, you asked

 

Roy Barker  25:02

me, What about artificial sweeteners? I know sometimes we make the switch from regular coke to diet. But then if they say that the artificial sweetener, it can trigger as bad or worse than regular sugar.

 

Spiro  25:15

It can there's not enough studies on that yet. But I would stay away from them. Because it does change your metabolism the way you metabolize foods and your system and all that. And it's artificial. So I would say I don't know, but there's no proof yet that it triggers a gout attack. So for that reason,

 

Roy Barker  25:39

well, no, we'll just say from my own experience in the last couple of weeks, you know, I've been struggling with my blood sugar previously, and then I have really well, I didn't drink any water, too many diet cokes. got off the diet cokes, not even having any but really up my water intake to yes, no, but maybe 12 to even maybe 14 cups or glasses a day. And it's really helped my blood sugar in anyway, I know, there may not work exactly the same, but it's just something I would suggest is really, I think re hydrating, making sure you're hydrating and drinking enough. And if you're bigger, like me, you know, the eight glasses a day may not be enough. I think nowadays they're saying you know, you really need to base it on your weight as well. So, yes, somebody is out there suffering just something to try to flush as much of that uric acid out of your body as soon as possible. Yes. Because believe me, I'm always in the boys in the bathroom now. A bathroom anymore, but it's made me feel so much better. It's interesting, because I've just never been a water drinker. I don't like it. But I think it's, it can really get to good things for

 

Spiro  27:03

the only thing I would say about sugar is it's very addictive. So it increases the pleasure part of the brain there. And what the key is to basically less and less, it's gonna take time, but it's an addiction. So and your brain really reacts when it has sugar. So if you feed it less less, then the cravings slowly disappear, right, I'll be the key to beating eating too much sugar.

 

Roy Barker  27:32

That's an interesting point you bring up because it's like, I haven't been eating sugar for the last three or four weeks, we've made a very conscious effort to just get away from it all together. Because I'm not very good at just eating a little bit, you know? Yeah. If a little bit it's good for you, though, if a little bit makes you feel good, lots even better. So yeah, just cutting that out. You know, it's, it has reduced my cravings. I'm not nearly as asking Terry all the time to, you know, bring home a snack or something like that. When you're eating those all the time. It's like, you just want more and more and more.

 

Spiro  28:08

Yeah, and it makes you hungry of sugar. If you consume too much sugar makes you hungrier, so you want more and you eat more and more calories and you increase your weight. And I've

 

Terry  28:16

gotten good at hiding. You know, my little pee, you know, I can just I can just have one or two bites. And I was always like, yes, that's what I'm very lucky.

 

Spiro  28:27

Yeah, have one two bites of something you really like and that takes away the cravings and you enjoy that. One minute of chewing that piece of whatever dessert you love. That's what I

 

Roy Barker  28:37

yeah. Well, Spiro, thanks so much for taking time to be with us. It's been a very educational lot. I have learned a lot. Is there anything else? Is there? Are there any other points that you want to make to the audience before we start wrapping? 

 

Spiro  28:52

Oh we had a good conversation. pretty lengthy, we touched a lot of points. I think we've covered pretty much all if somebody wants to learn more about go just visit my website goutandyou.com. There's over 150 articles. There. So on any subject and if you have any questions email me, I answer all emails, usually within 24 hours. You can contact me directly. I also have a book that you could purchase and learn more about the gout diet. And that's pretty much it.

 

Roy Barker  29:24

what's what's the name of the book again?

 

Spiro  29:25

Gout And You, The Ultimate Gout Diet and Cookbook. There are about 100 recipes to get you started as well. Oh, yeah.

 

Roy Barker  29:33

Is there a contact form on your website? Do they just need to go over there and contact? Yeah,

 

Spiro  29:37

no, there's an email on the contact page. So it's basically info at gout and new calm Okay, no questions.

 

Terry  29:44

Thank you for providing all of this. Just very enlightening information and thank you so many things to look out for as you're aging but this this has been very, very beneficial.

 

Roy Barker  29:59

Yeah. Go and check the website out. There's a lot of great articles. Like I said, I was just thumbing down through here and you know, some of the more relevant ones for us because you know, we like garlic, we cook everything garlic, so that's interesting. But, you know, there's the gout and sports out and specialists, you know, a lot of great information. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, again, thanks so much. that's gonna do it for another episode of AGEUcational Of course, I am Roy and you can find us at www.AGEUcational. com We're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify. If we're not a one that you listened to please reach out I'd be glad to add it. We're on all the major social media platforms as well we tend to hang out on histogram so we'd love to interact with you over there and copy our a video This episode will go live on our YouTube channel when the episode goes up. Please check it out as well. Some of our past guests very informative. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

www.goutandyou.com

www.AGEUcational.com

Discover Organizing To Declutter Your Space And Clear Your Mind Featuring Jill Yesko

Whether you are dealing with a hoarder, moving, downsizing, or wanting to take more control of your life. Getting organized is probably at the top of the list. At home or at work. The old saying a cluttered space is a cluttered mind is so correct. There is no time like the present to get your cutter under control. You won't regret it!

About Jill

Jill Yesko is a Certified Professional Organizer and founder of Discover Organizing, a full service organizing and downsizing firm based in Pittsburgh PA!  Her first book, "I'm Right Here: 10 Ways to Get Help with Hoarding and Chronic Disorganization" debuted in June 2021, and her next book, "Chronological Order: The Fine Print for a Large Life" is due out later this month. 

She is an avid surfer, snowboarder, skier, and dog-mom, is engaged to a sweet guy and has two adult kids - Nathan is her company CIO, and Mary is a geologist. Jill's prior careers were in social work and human resources, but she has been a professional organizer since 2003.

www.discoverorganizing.com

www.imrightherebook.com

www.AGEUcational.com

Full Transcript Below

Discover Organizing To Declutter Your Space And Clear Your Mind Featuring Jill Yesko

Tue, 9/21 6:05PM • 59:14

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

downsizing, book, lived, people, picture, great, talking, jill, move, thought, house, check, kids, find, mom, notes, create, decision, documents, pick

SPEAKERS

Jill, Terry, Roy Barker

Roy Barker  00:02

Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational This is Roy. So we're a podcast that talks about aging issues not only you know, US journey, our journey through aging, but also about the things that we see with our parents. They're in pretty good shape right now. So it's not like we have to do a lot of heavy lifting. But you know, mine had just gone through a move, Cyma reduction in square footage, not a lot, a lot that some and so we thought we would have Jill on this show and Terry, I'm gonna let you introduce our guest, Jill.

 

Terry  00:38

Jill Yesko is a search Certified Professional Organizer and founder of Discover Organizing, a full service organizing and downsizing firm based in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Her first book, "I'm Right Here: 10 Ways To Get Help Hoarding and Chronic disorganization debuted in June of 2021. And her next book, Chronological Order The Fine Print For A Large Life is due out later this month. She's an avid surfer, snowboarder, skid steer and dog mom is engaged to a sweet guy and has two adult kids. Nathan is her company CIO and Mary geologists, Jill's prior careers were in social work and human resources. But she has been a professional organizer since 2003. Jill, thank you so much for joining us today. We're happy to have you on the show.

 

Jill  01:33

Thank you, Terry, I really appreciate that introduction.

 

Roy Barker  01:37

So tell us a little bit about how did you get into from the journey from social work to organizing? And I don't know, I'll say that I know, kind of the backstory on some social workers that, you know, that's part of their life is organizing other people's stuff, too. So I'll let you tell your stories.

 

Jill  01:57

Yeah, you know, it's so true. I want to talk more about that, because social workers are excellent research. Researchers, and they're excellent resource finders, they're like hunters, and whenever they see someone in trouble, or they need a resource, or they need some type of help, what I love about social workers and case managers, and even, you know, nurse, you know, psychiatric nurses, and anyone that works in that mental health or even, you know, mental health hospitals, to be honest with you, which is why I spent some time working as a as a liaison to the community from a from a mental health, state hospital to the community.

 

One of the things that I really learned about our kind of our ilk, if you will, is that we just do not quit until that person gets the help that they need. And we follow up and vote because we can't sleep. If someone's like, in crisis, it's like a thing. It's like, it just keeps gnawing at us. And I remember, you know, back in the days of the beeper, where, where I would be excited if it was my turn, and they're like, Oh, my God, why? Because you get extra money. And I said, No, because someone might need me, and I will, I'll be, I'll be able to hopefully help them and they're like, wow, you're young, okay.

 

Um, now I would, you know, take that paper and, you know, be like throwing it out the window. Probably. Being an entrepreneur, I feel like I'm always wearing a beeper. Um, but I would say that, you know, finding those resources is the most gratifying thing, especially working with seniors, because honestly, even though there's, there's websites galore. You know, putting the ads on the top three or four, and that might not be the right solution for them. So one of the things we like doing is taking, you know, kind of pulling that information and saying, you know, there's really good information on page two, let me help you find that resource.

 

Because it's, you know, you kind of do have to dig for the right fit for your need. And so going from social work to this job wasn't really all that much of a, I didn't really feel that bombed. I did have a slight stint as an HR director for a psychiatric hospital because I, I did, frankly, you know, need to get into administrative psychiatric work because I wanted to see what that was like. Because when I was little, I did not want to be a police woman or a ballerina, I wanted to be the administrator of a hospital. And I did actually get to do that.

 

And that was pretty cool being the head of the administration of services, which was my HR hat that I wore that my boss gave me so it was kind of cool to actually have the opportunity to learn the clerical side, which is I think the other Part of Social Work is the clerical side, there's so much paperwork that goes into it. So the cool thing about doing that for the county was that I learned about government. And when you learn about government, you learn about things like Medicare, and Medicaid, and you learn about red tape, and you learn about how to check boxes the proper way and to be patient and to schedule time to fill out paperwork.

 

And so when I work with my older population, guess what I have the patience for I have all day, let's, let's roll up our sleeves. And, you know, put that red tape away because I'm going to help you and, and that is that's kind of that beautiful gift that social work gave me is that ability to sift through all that stuff.

 

Roy Barker  05:47

Now, a lot of people don't know what social work my exposure was in a nursing home environment. And it we used to kind of laugh, we'd walk in the social, the social workers office, and there'd be a hearing aid in 3000 pieces that while they're on the phone, trying to get a replacement and see how we're going to pay for it, how long, you know, they're like trying to put it back together like a jigsaw puzzle to see if we can just make this thing work, just until the new one comes in.

 

Jill  06:14

Right, right. I mean, most of the clients I was on the phone with today, even they're like, please don't email me, I don't own a computer, I hate a computer. So a lot of our population are saying, I don't have these resources handy. Um, and I don't know where to turn. And so they call the Area Agency on Aging, they call, you know, their, their charities for their faith, whatever faith group that they're in, to get ideas or they talk to neighbors or friends.

 

And a lot of times, we just wish they would just kind of call us because after all these years and being in business, we could be like you know what you need, you need a certified placement advisor that can help you find a new place to live with the budget that you have in place. And that's not our job, but we can at least direct you. And then we can come back and work with you once you know where you're going. And we can start downsizing, which is I know, the The purpose of this podcast tonight is to talk about, you know, downsizing, which is such a big deal.

 

Terry  07:41

So hard to know,

 

Roy Barker  07:43

I'm sorry, no, no, yeah,

 

Terry  07:44

it's so hard to know, what resources are out there, if you're not online, like my mom, she doesn't check her email, she knows how to shop and order things. And she knows how to play games. And that's about it. She, you know, Google friends and you know, try to tie them, things like that. But there are so many different resources out there available now that

 

Jill  08:10

weren't right, and rabbit become mazes, you know, it's very confusing. And it it kind of gets into this paralysis situation, where they're like I gave up, I was on the internet for two hours looking for help. And I would made a couple of calls. And no one really knows what I'm talking about. And I think that's frustrating for me to hear, because there has to be some easier way to find resources, you know, for all the different needs and, and some of the government pages are really antiquated and they're so hard to navigate.

 

And, and I was trying to help a senior would find a personal care home recently. I'm just to look up one, just the one that she thought she might want to go to. And it was like, when was this website made? When the internet was born, like is this like, What's it? What was that? Oh, start with a W i can't remember. But it was that type of code that old websites had. I mean, I remember having that kind of website when I started my business in 2003. And like a software engineer came over and helped me like set it up. And it was so rudimentary, but I think there's got to be a better way for that.

 

Terry  09:31

It's not

 

Roy Barker  09:33

well, and I think while the Internet has made it easier to find things, I think that it's increased the amount of persistence and staying with it because we still you could pick up the phone. If you could find their number, pick them up, call the phone call them. They give you some information. And it's frustrating now because I can find people on the internet but getting a hold of them to get specific question answered or find something out? It's, it's very difficult in most cases, and I think that's where a lot of them get frustrated, you know, they're used to picking up the phone and talking to people around days. Nobody wants to talk on the phone. I mean, it's a

 

Jill  10:13

lot of automated stuff. And also, I've noticed too, a lot of chat, like, we aren't available by phone, so please send us an email, well, that that's gonna make anybody frustrated to have to send an email to put a ticket in to find out if you're going to get services or not. And I'm like, okay, that that's hard. You know, I think that's, I think that's really hard for people to have to, to not have immediate satisfaction, because they're used to calling and getting a human being on the phone to help them and not have to wait for a callback for three weeks or something.

 

But I mean, we are dealing with work shortages and labor shortages, you know, for sure. But, um, anyway, so what I do like about our company is that we, when we go out to do our initial assessment, for downsizing, it's at no charge, because we want people to feel like they're can ask us anything, and not worry about the clock ticking. And if we aren't the right fit, and we can find them, if they just really needed an estate sale, because their kids have handled everything else, then we give them our local resource guide. And then they, we circle a few that we've worked with and say, you know, choose you'd like. So we like that.

 

But I think when we go and sit down with them, it's like a two hour visit. We tell them how the downsizing process works from the very beginning until the very end, and we go through that entire checklist. And we give them moving checklists we give them here's things that you can't forget to do. These are important things from the turning off of utilities to where do you send your Verizon or, you know, cable box, or whatever. And we can help with that, too. But we have the scope of services form.

 

And they basically see when they see the scope of services form, they're like, wow, there's a lot to do. And I'm like, right, but we have every step in chronological order for that reason, so that you don't get lost. And this is yours to keep. But you have to tell us how much or how little of our services that you need. And that really helps them put everything into perspective, like, wow, this is a long process, you can be my tour guide, and we can get through this together.

 

Roy Barker  12:28

And sometimes the the actual steps, that's the easy part, it's a lot of times it's that emotional part that you know, you're dealing with, because there's a lot coming at them at once, probably leaving the house that they may have been in for a long time, number one going to do in strange place. Also the thought of I've collected this stuff all my life. And I don't it's one realization I think people get to is they way overestimate what they're going to be able to fit into this new downsize unit. And so then that is another stressor that at some point when the reality sets in.

 

And you know what he said is that that happened with my mom, exactly. She thought she had under control. And then it was like on a Friday, she was telling me what we're going to do this and this. And I'm like, you know, this is going to be a lengthy, time consuming hiring process. And oh, no, no, I've got it. My dad is going to do this. Anyway. So Monday, she calls me and she's just worn out. She's like, yeah, you're right. This is long, tiring for deal. Isn't I'm not through yet. I'm like, Yeah, I think just to go to that point is, these are things that we need to think about sooner rather than later until there's maybe crisis mode.

 

Jill  13:52

Yeah, we try to tell a good rule of thumb is six months before you think you might want to sell your house. So that might even give you a year might give you two years. But if you know that the process itself before you list your home and get ready to move, you know that that's going to take six months. And I mean, I can do it in two weeks. Right. But why would I put someone through that? Right and have gotten those SLS calls? Like, you know, I thought I could do this myself. My closing is in two weeks. And oh my gosh, can you guys just come over and we Blitz the house and we pack it up and we donate and we sell and we take things to auction sites and we take things to done in it.

 

And it's not the way you want to go because now you're making decisions under duress, instead of making those decisions, really thinking things through and we always do second and third passes anyway. So even if we've been through your whole house and we've picked up everything and we've made decisions, keep to sell, toss, donate, we've done all that. I'm like about a month before the move So can we do that one more time? And they're like, Oh my gosh, yes, I was hoping we could. And we go through the whole thing again. And they're like, now that I've seen my new place, I don't know what I was thinking, boy, you know, and we go through it again, and then a week before the move, but we do it one more time.

 

And that is that I will, I will have watched people get rid of 50% of their stuff a week before the move, because then they're like, I, I don't know what I was thinking. I said, Well, you were just starting out in the process, right, we're thinking I might need it someday. And it's something that's been in my life a long time. And we have to remember that these things have been witnesses to these people's lives, our lives, you know, for 5060 years, in the same house, sometimes, I had a client who basically was raised in a house and got married, and her parents gave her the house and they moved on, and let her and her new husband have this house.

 

And they were so she never left that house. And then I had to move her into a high rise apartment. And it was like, shocking, you know, so we, we, she was an attorney, she was very, very clear about her wishes about how she wanted everything. And she I helped her set up organizing systems within the home, I paid attention to how she liked things in the old house. And I tried to mirror that. And that's, that's a big factor. And the other big factor too, and you mentioned this ROI is that they're moving to a whole new sometimes community. Um, and I always try to say if you can get your, your, your loved one your older adult into a community that's really close in the neighborhood of that they're used to, they're familiar grocery stores, and pharmacies and post office and, and things that they're used to going to first, even if it's for three to five years for the transition period.

 

That really reduces any location stress syndrome, which is a real thing. RSS is a real thing. And so we try to get people to say love that first step we make, may not be to Virginia Beach, to where you know, the daughter and son are may not be to Florida where you want them to go. It may be within their own neighborhood. And you have to be okay with that. Because they're alive. It's their comfort level. Right?

 

Terry  17:13

Yeah, all those changes all at once

 

Jill  17:15

or too much. It's really handled, let

 

Terry  17:19

alone, you know, an older adult who's been somewhere, you know, in the same place. Right? Hi, yeah, well, I

 

Roy Barker  17:26

think we have to remember, too, that the, from what I've learned through my years is that change is the very worst thing for the senior adult, it's just, they've gotten used to doing everything, the way they do it, and change of any kind, just can be devastating. So we have to be very careful and make sure that we're handling and providing the resources that we need. And I think it's interesting, and maybe this may be more psychology that we may not can really answer.

 

But it's, you know, like myself, I downsized about seven years ago, on my own, and it was the best decision I ever made. And my kids only money because they're not going to have a lot of stuff to deal with when the time comes to dispose of me. You know, but I don't know. I'll tell you what happened. Friend of mine moved into an apartment. And I thought it was really cool, because they started building these apartments around here where they had the parking garage is not like, you know, the old days where you park in a parking lot and had to walk upstairs. This was like, if you lived on five, he parked on five and it was cool.

 

And I thought, let me try that. And then. So anyway, I ended up selling the house and got rid of probably 90% of everything. But I will say that was the best decision I made, at least for me, because it was stuff. I mean, I had to barns for, you know, tools and ladders and stuff, I'd collected yours. And definitely at this age, I don't want to be hanging off a ladder do any work? Well, you know, we'll hire somebody to come in and do that. But I just think it's funny that, you know, it was easy and so liberating for me, but then there's some times it's really difficult for people that are still hanging on.

 

Jill  19:14

Yeah. And there's so much sentimentality to objects and there's so much there's so much connection and holding one object can really bring it all back. And it's it's really hard I see it every day. I mean I see someone struggle and say that's the thing that my aunt made for me or I remember sitting in that chair and talking to my dad every night and or I remember watching wheel of fortune and that was our TV tray when we watched Wheel of Fortune with my grandparents our you know that's what I ate my spaghetti out of on Sunday nights with my grandma and and so you have these very powerful memories.

 

So, one of the things I like to do is I like to listen to the stories, first of all, because they deserve that I don't rush anybody through this process. Unnecessarily, it's not, it's not that important, you know, um, but, um, what I try to do is asked them if I can take photos of the objects and make them a memory book, and if they could tell me a story about each thing, then we can call the book, like my favorite things, or my memories, or, you know, my, you know, the things I wanted to keep, but couldn't, they could call it whatever they want.

 

And we do try to photograph the house that they lived in for a long period of time, the way it was decorated, and then, even if we can't make and recreate that in the new home in some way, what it does is it gives them a very clear memory about what what role those objects played in their family history and in all the fabric of their memories.

 

And so they can show their new friends wherever they're living with on page five, the dining room table where they had all of their holiday meals and the couch where they watched TV or listen to the radio at night, or did crossword puzzles in the morning room and what that look like. And I think that's extremely powerful for people.

 

Generation wise to to share that not only with new friends, but also with grandchildren, and to tell to tell the story of how they came to be there. And so the this this book that we do is, you know, you can go on Shutterfly and make this book, you know, for like, 35 $40, right, but, you know, we stop sending flowers to say thank you, and we just send these books because like, That's way better than no, no,

 

Roy Barker  21:51

that's such a great idea.

 

Jill  21:52

Listen, you know, we listen, like they say, Oh my god, you heard me say that. Or, you know, this one woman had yearbooks and yearbooks of her dad's, but she's like, I'm 80. Why do I still have these yearbooks? And I was like, Well, tell me about your dad. And he was like this big athlete at this big university. And she felt like she was dishonouring him by throwing these books away, because someone should know that.

 

So. Okay, show me these pictures. So she opened the pages. And she pointed and I put post and essentially, what are you gonna do? I said, you'll see. So I took pictures of all of the pages. There was like, eight. I have like eight year bucks. It was like it was where he was. And we I said, Do you see these pictures on my phone?

 

She said, Yes. I said, may I dispose of these yearbooks now? She said, Yes. And when we made her memory book, we told the story of her dad. And what those books those pages in that so she had a mini yearbook. And she still talks about that book, and still refers our business because she's like, these people get it, you know, they understand that this is important to not just move somebody to but to make sure we take our memories with us, right?

 

Terry  23:02

Oh, my, I mean, my mother has all of that stuff. And she downsize. downsize. About six or seven years ago, my dad was in the service. And we lived. I went to six elementary schools, we moved in the middle of the year. So I went and mean all all of it. And of course, while we were over, and we were in Europe, while we were there, bought all kinds of things, paintings and, and crystal and just all of these serving babies like that.

 

My kids are like, what are you gonna do with that? And my sisters and I are like, Oh, those are beautiful. We got to keep those. We got to keep that water for excellent. Which one do you look at? She's had I mean 812 sets of China she did at the time when we when we moved her but it just seems like kids these days. Don't want that snow

 

Jill  23:59

now. Yeah, they're their own stuff. And they don't really see that the emotional value to that some of those hard earned and hard won possessions were because a lot of you know our parents got those things from their parents who lived through the depression. And my mother's a baby boomer like a Casper you know, baby boomer and that generation is I find them to be extremely independent. They don't want you to do anything for them for the most part, they want you to be next to them as they do it.

 

And so we've learned to say okay, we have a bunch of we still have traditionalist that we're working with in their 90s because a lot of them say to me, Jill, I didn't think I was gonna live this long. I got a I got to downsize. And I'm like, you're 95 now's a good time to begin. And even my own grandmother, you know, I moved her out of where she was. She was living in a nice, you know, senior community. And then she needed to go to independent living and, and then assisted living. And she was in her mid 90s. When we did that, and she had 16 kids.

 

 

And I created buckets, my mom said, just give everybody a bucket, and Teller, every time she comes up with something to who goes to that it has to fit in the bucket. I'm like, that's a really good idea. So I did that. But it was a lot of work. And her husband had all these papers and paper is the monster, I thought photos were a monster, you know, to deal with and to go through, but papers upon papers, because that generation again, you got to save it because you may have to argue about the water bill, you may because that wasn't an online generation.

 

And that's what I say about the internet, like there is no trust, sometimes I see that there's no trust that the internet will produce the information that we need, because the Internet has let them down. Honestly, you know, it has been frustrating for them. It has been basically the IKEA basement, right? When you go into IKEA and you're like up and you're looking in the beautiful floors. And that's what you think the internet is. And then you go to the basement of IKEA to go check out and you're on the labyrinth of choices and colors and bright things.

 

And it's very distracting to me, even I dread going to IKEA. So when I go to Google, and I'm looking for solutions, even myself, it's like one rabbit hole after the other and it is frustrating. So I think for papers, you know, I actually have to demonstrate, let's go into your account, why don't have an account, let's create an account together. And I'll keep it in this notebook this this real tangible thing. And we'll create a notebook of all these ideas and the instructions.

 

And I literally will do screenshots and make a binder and say this is how you get to this. And if we do this correctly, and I you demonstrate to me that we can do this correctly, you can read a five filing cabinets over here today. And they're like, really I'm like, Yeah, really, because this is all backup to that one thing. And if I show you, so really, honestly, everyone, I've taught how to do these things. They pick it up like that they're all bright, they all look at their binder, they all look at the cheat sheet.

 

And they're like this was oh my gosh, I was holding on to all this stuff forever and ever because I was afraid. And I'm like, well, you're free. Just like your ROI, you're free of all your burdens of your stuff. They're free of having to be an archivist. And living in their archives. They don't have to live amongst their archives anymore. Well,

 

Terry  27:41

unfortunately, it's not free from all my stuff, because he's trying to help me take you know, photos and store my paperwork out of that pile that it's in my black hole table over there. And it just gets stuffed in. And it's just, it's just crazy. It's hard for me

 

Jill  28:03

to do well, Sunday, maybe we'll do a show on paper. How to get rid of those paper piles. Oh,

 

Roy Barker  28:11

great. Yes, yeah. Because, you know, I was that guy. And I'll tell you, even though you know, I embraced technology, I would print my water bill off. I would pay it online. And then I would print that off and stapled together and I had proof. Yeah, I had all these filing cabinets full of stuff. And then somehow I came to the realization of what you're saying it's like, you know what, I just have to go online and look. And if I, if they don't get my check, or it falls through that they'll call me. I mean, they they're not shy about calling and saying, Oh, well is money.

 

Jill  28:44

Fine, you don't worry.

 

Roy Barker  28:46

But one thing, you know, kind of maybe getting a little too deep. But what I'll use is one note and then I had used Evernote in the past, but you know, it's what I encouraged Harry to do is just take a picture of the receipt and file it because you can find it much easier. We know and I'm not gonna pick on her I'll say me that, you know, I had receipts laying around or filed somewhere good. But when I needed them, could I find them easily? No. Now I can go to one note, look up, you know what year it was and find that perceived that I'm looking for so much easier. It's just but it's it's a you have to train yourself to do that. It's not easy for some to let go of.

 

Jill  29:31

Well, what you're talking about is a habit. A routine. And one of the best books I've read on like, getting someone to try something new to benefit them is atomic habits. I don't know if you've heard of that book. James clear. Um, I love that book. I refer to it all the time. And what I love about that is like you know, just getting us to do just that. 1% change.

 

And for you, Terry, it might be like just getting used to the app for a couple of weeks or a month just looking at it not even using at it just making a habit to just open it, look at it. Don't Don't take pictures of receipts yet. Don't, don't do anything. And then when you're ready, then you take, you start doing receipts with it. And then maybe three months later, you start doing other documents with it. And so that you're then building that habit of saying, You're holding something in your hand.

 

And you know what, this is a fill in the blank of receipt, a piece of paper document that I need to keep, but now that I've learned how to be really proficient in this new digital filing system, I think I will go ahead and take a picture of this warranty, and then throw the warranty away without that. Oh, what am I gonna do? Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  30:52

Wow, you're not encouraged. Even if you have sentimental stuff for the kids. This is a conversation that we that we have is, you know, how many tricks do you make from the house to the storage unit to dig through there to find this, you know, whatever that you know, you got to save. But you think about if you just took a picture of it, you can recall it anytime, anywhere that you want it to

 

Terry  31:19

last again. I mean, I get all of this, I couldn't just throw it away. So I've got boxes of the kidstuff storage and storage unit. And I have I still have.

 

Jill  31:31

Wow, well, I'll tell you what, I just you guys, I just did this. So my kids were 26 and 28. And I emptied one of these pods I when I moved two years ago out of my home into an apartment and now we just got this house. I said I'll put all the memorabilia in a pod. It was a little eight by five. And the guy came in took it away. It was like a lot of stuff like the baby blankets and the the first outfits and the first Barney and whatever, okay. And I said it's fine. The kids will go through it later, blah, blah, blah, well, then I was like, You know what, I'm an organizer. I am a photo organizer. And I like to think of myself as an archivist of some kind for these families. I'm like, I got to practice what I preach. So I had the pod delivered to my office because I have a lot of hands on deck there.

 

They emptied out the thing. And I thought I only had six bins of stuff get so much stuff I had how much 15 bins and bins. I don't mean like little boxes. I had the like, Oh yeah. Oh yeah, big tubs of stuff. So I said put this on tape. Let's record it. And I, you know, I've basically laid it all out like I'm, I'm just as guilty as y'all I'm 52 years old. I have two grown children. And I'm basically making a documentary right now. And I'm taking those bins and a lot of stuff around here in my house that I'm not even looking at photo albums. Like those yearbooks, things like that, I'm taking a cover picture of the cover of the yearbook.

 

And then the two pages I was in, you know, and I'm putting I'm making a chronological book of my life, I'm putting five coffee table books. That's it, that's going to be all of those 15 bins. Right. And we're making like a film, we're actually doing this, we were like halfway through photographing all of my three dimensional objects, all the kids art has been scanned. And the kids get to keep it all they get their own digital copy that they're like, throw it away once you've gotten it photographed. And that feels so good to me to know that my footprint is going away.

 

And all my stuff, by the way is not only going to be in these printed books, but it's going to be on a next play digital frame on playlist, I can do my, my childhood, my teenage life, my 20s 30s and 40s. So I've got five playlists, and I can mix and match them and shuffle them in my digital frame. And I love I've already downloaded a few things on are uploaded, and it's in its motion activated. So when I go in my living room, I walk past it and a picture comes up with me when I was six years old. It's just Oh, really? Yeah, it's a really neat way to still get to see everything, which is why we took those pictures in the first place. Right?

 

Roy Barker  34:33

You know, like me when I moved there were things like my desk set, you know, I had a big office and some other I guess I must have been I wasn't granted a lot of the sudden mental illness or something because I didn't have a lot of, you know, the little knickknacks and stuff but what really got me was so when I moved all this stuff into the storage, it was like 60 bucks a month. Yeah, over like three years, and all of a sudden, I was paying like $180 a month.

 

And I said, for what I never go over there to visit my stuff. I mean, it's just there. And so that was just made a decision at that point. I was like, okay, getting rid of it. And I got rid of just, I think I had four or five tubs of books I held on to, but for the rest of it, I just got rid of it. And I mean, at some point, you just realize that if it's been in the storage for two or three years that probably you're, you've already said

 

Jill  35:31

goodbye to

 

Terry  35:33

1. And I think, yeah, it's been in the storage unit for a couple of years. But it's not right here in front of me. So I'm not going to use it. I don't even know what I have. It's like going shopping every time I go back to the storage unit, which is not very often. I feel like I'm shopping. It's all new stuff. So I'll bring a little bit. I got an excuse for everything.

 

Jill  35:56

Yeah, I hear that. I hear that a lot, too. Yeah, it's very common. You're not you're not not special? I

 

Terry  36:03

No, no, I'm

 

Jill  36:04

just saying you're not out of line. I mean, a lot of people feel that way. And it is comforting to have your things around you. So I understand that too.

 

Roy Barker  36:14

Well, so tell us a little bit about I know that we you know, optimally, we would be like six months out before we move. But are there some documents? Are there some things that we would need to think about before we actually engaged you?

 

Jill  36:29

Um, well, in terms of documents, um, you know, I guess one of the things I do if you're talking about like, you mean, like my agreements? Or do you mean, like vital records?

 

Roy Barker  36:43

Well, no, just before we called you out, if I was saying, Hey, we're going to move, we want you to come out, are there some things that we, you know, should be thinking about and checking off this before you come home to kind of help get us off to a faster start?

 

Jill  36:57

Um, well, it mostly comes down to, you know, the hours that you're willing to spend with me, or the hours that you're not willing to spend with me. Because I, when I come out, and I do an assessment, I can do a written plan, and you guys can execute that on your own, or you can pull me into that. So we do that scope of services, like I said, and we do go think through things like your paperwork, you know, what I always say, what are your goals, because your goals may be, oh, we're gonna keep all those filing cabinets, we're bringing them with us, but we're not bringing all this furniture that would take in the place of that.

 

So the paper then becomes more important or the documents become more important. And if you have a business like a, you know, your own business, then we have to talk about those records. And then I always recommend you talk to a CPA and that kind of thing. And we have like a whole checklist of you know, we need to put in together and emergency back. So let's put you know, your power of attorney, your will your you know, any type of living well, that you might have any stock certificates, your insurance documents, and then your cheat sheet of who are all your people, your lawyer, your banker, your your, you know, your main doctor, you know, your accountant, all those all those key players in your life, that, you know, people may need to reach if something happens to you.

 

So, you know, it really depends. Like, this is a we're in September, and it's Disaster Preparedness Month, right? It's also save your photos month, so I've been having a field day on the internet, you know, and Instagram, but giving out tips galore. But, um, you know, for me, I try to say if you just have a go box, you know, go folder, go box, certainly digitize this, these things, please, please, please. But if you have a go box, that's handy.

 

You can already be in your car. It could be I don't care where it is, you know, as long as you have a copy some people keep a go folder in their, in their freezer, because it's a fireproof box, you know, not not forever. It's like up to three hours or something like that. If you look up the numbers on that, please don't quote me, but it does. It does have like a fire rating, right? It's um,

 

Roy Barker  39:14

yeah. Oh, my gosh, it's funny you say that because my mic, we used to save change through the year to go on vacation with my grandparents every year. And my grandmother kept change at the back of the refrigerator that she thought, well, nobody's gonna look into the fridge for any money.

 

Jill  39:31

And she's absolutely right. No one really does and has to be a pretty desperate criminal who might be hungry, but, um, I really feel like establishing those goals is really important because somebody might feel very strongly about books and clothing, but not feel very strongly about all those guitars that you're like, Oh, you don't want those men? Oh, no, I don't play anymore. Oh, okay. But the books are important.

 

So it's really about square footage, your goals. Your hopes, your dreams, and your activities. And we align all of the tasks that have to do with downsizing with that person's lifestyle today, not who they used to be. They used to quilt if they used to, so if they used to paint, but now they like to go ballroom dancing. And now they like to ride horses, well, let's get your tech ready for your horse stuff. Let's get your, your your colored pencils and your art stuff together because you'd like to do watercolor, let's do that. Let's create that space together. And let's shed the former self. Because the good news is, if you want to pick all that stuff up again, you just got to go to Amazon or to the store.

 

And you can create that new hobby again, you can always begin again, somehow. Right, right. So we call those like those documents, those life essentials and things that should be in place. Like your insurance policies and your house and all that stuff. We go over and just ask, we have like these checklists like, do you have all this in place? Should we help you get this in place. And we're not the only ones that can do that you can get a geriatric care manager involved. You can get, you know, really, anyone that is like a senior placement advisor knows how to do all this stuff.

 

They know how to prepare documents, and help you put these kits together, just like us and what sometimes we work with them. And they'll say, Hey, can you find Can you help us fine. You know, they had they did a home inventory years ago. And they say it's over here, and we'll go digging for it. You know, what we're, we're working together. So, Terry, you were talking about like, your stuff, you know, like, inventory, it made me think about how many mentors and there is this really cool program that's free called fair split.

 

And for those people that are looking to downsize, and move, we always start a fair split free account for the client, we get nothing, we're not like an affiliate, we don't get cash, or, you know, I'm not getting sponsored by these companies. I love this company. Because what it does is like later that inventory, first of all can be shared with an insurance agent to we use it for the move to check off like, like a, you know, like, cube sheet like, hey, everything came, you know, off the track, we have it checked off, so we use that.

 

And then the third reason it can be used for is if you want to pay them, you can go into a paid account, just like Asana is free, and all these other free accounts you can use until you need it for a different purpose, or you need to use it more, it can then become an estate planning tool. And what I love about it becomes like you and your that's what made me think about it, you and your sister, we're talking about like China, and you get this and I get that and I really want the Waterford that was very special to me.

 

That's great. So you can do this thing called emotional bidding. And you no one sees that you want it, they just see that someone wants it. So they might not even see that you can choose your settings, you can have your blind and you vote

 

Terry  43:08

you have created a monster now I'm go free.

 

Jill  43:12

And here's the cool part, this is even better, is that you can then to that line item. Like let's say you're making that list of inventory of Waterford Crystal, you could take a picture, upload the picture and take any notes mom got this in Dublin, or I'm sorry, Waterford is in Cork or wherever. And you know, mom got this in Cork with dad on their honeymoon or whatever.

 

And you tell the story. And now you've got stories, you've got a picture, you can add videos of her talking about the honeymoon into that account. Oh yeah, it's all free. Oh my gosh, and then get into the emotional bidding part. When you start using it with your lawyer. Then it becomes I think it's like 250 and it's a one time. I don't know, don't quote me on that price.

 

Because I think it changed. Definitely, like, I mean, we're like it's like indispensable for us because we're like you guys look, you now have account of everything you own. And it's in boxes now. And when we unpack it, it'll be out of the boxes. But now you have photos of it. You've got a complete list of everything and it's all part of our service and it's interesting it's right there

 

Roy Barker  44:18

and then mate I don't even think that would be good you know for people like Terry that are still storing some of her more precious items in a storage unit and Terry because sometimes we think about you know we saw this thing but did we get rid of it is at the store Janet so I mean to me this would be great inventory for those things because that way you can always say Yeah, we got it or no we got rid of it because we're always you know going by what I wanted

 

Jill  44:48

you guys you can take a video of your storage unit and just at least get get a video of like this, like the physical things you can't video it's inside the boxes. I understand that but you took the video It's a storage unit one storage Oh, no. And that's your little cheat. And then you can take individual pictures of stuff. And then

 

Roy Barker  45:09

when it was going in, that would have been the, that's what I was saying about is when you're putting stuff in, if you actually kind of catalogued it going in, that would be one thing I was going to talk about, that you said, about getting the legal papers together and stuff, please, please, please tell somebody where that box is. Because I know, I know people that it's like, well, you know, it's either at home, or it's at the lawyer or it's at the CPA. But if something were to happen to somebody, in between all this moving around, you know, the family may not know where it was for a few weeks. So always good, just lets me know where it's at.

 

Jill  45:48

The location of that is very important in that I hate to just keep talking about fair split. But one thing that you can't do on that inventory is right, document box number one on the list. And there's a drop down thing that says the location so you can say it's in storage, it's in the at the address, because you call the the name of the file is always the property address.

 

And then you can say it's at this address, it's in stores, or it's an aunt Susie's house, because you can create and customize the destinations. And that helps us track huge photo collections. Because the clients like Wait, is that at your studio? Or is that at my house? Let's check. Because in fair split, it'll say it's a discover organizing photo office, or it's at this address of the lady that gave us the stuff and she's like, Oh, my God, okay, I wasn't sure. And then a lot of people will say, Did it go to donation?

 

Did it go to a state sale? Did it go to my sister's house? Or do I still have it? And I'm like, let's look. And sure enough, you can look and see what was donated. You can do reports, like, give me a donation report, it gives you a donation report just using that category. So it's such a great tool. I wish I found it. I wish I thought of it. But yeah,

 

Roy Barker  47:01

well, I was gonna say if people I grew up with, they had a huge family. And they kind of had the manual version of this one, I guess mom must have been feeling ill or not too great. So one Thanksgiving, she passed out a different color, post it note to every kid and said go around mark. And so and it's funny because the kids kind of took a joke that they left them. And so you know, when you go over there and see them, they're still post it notes for everything around the house about which kid had Dibs off.

 

Terry  47:35

That's a great tool. Mom's label. I mean, mom's like, Okay, well, once this who wants this painting? I mean, it's almost like he wants this. And we're like, now you can restart arguing about that. And, and we have our names on the back of certain things, you know, not everything, but

 

Jill  47:56

that's very smart. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we have to have a show about sister soon.

 

Terry  48:04

Oh, man. Yeah.

 

Jill  48:06

I have one tip. So I guess I guess what I would say to with the post it notes, I love that idea. You guys, I'm glad you brought it up. Because when we do our initial assessments, we actually use posting those four things that are just one category only. And that's just basically the things that you want. And then we, you know, go from there. Or they'll say, Can we do one for my condo in Florida and a one for here because I'm going to stay here I'm just moving around locked to a small. And so we'll say okay, Pink is Florida. Yellow was Pittsburgh. Great. And then we go from there. And so that's fun. That's fun for them. They like doing that. Because then they don't have to move things around because they're heavy. But they get to just stick things on.

 

Terry  48:48

Well, I'm gonna ask you is do you do you travel? Do you guys travel? We do.

 

Jill  48:54

We do travel with our clients depending on their budget, otherwise, we'll we will refer to a partner, which is basically someone that is like our company, and we call it job sharing. So if I am moving someone to Florida, and they don't, they don't want to bring us with them because of financial reasons. We will coordinate with a senior move manager down in whatever county or city in Florida, there's usually one there that can receive the goods, help them unpack, and they receive our inventory through fair split.

 

And they know how to use that because a lot of us do. And they just check it off and help them settle and they just give us a report at the end of the job. And we call that job sharing and there we don't have to like pass off referral fees or anything because that's just what we all do with each other. We're very community based. So

 

Roy Barker  49:45

I know we're running way long on time. But another question I wanted to ask was about kind of the the starting of decisions and I know you talked about making too, you know, hopefully maybe two or three rounds goes through the house to look at stuff but Back in the old days, it was they told you to make the definitely I'm keeping power. Definitely, we're getting rid of power. And then the power we don't know about is that still kind of the steps that you go through?

 

Jill  50:15

Yeah, sometimes if it's really hard, we have a maybe. And I'm not sure pile, which is okay, because we're going to hit that again on a second pass because everything has to be touched and decided upon it for selling your house eventually. So the sometimes will isolate those items in like a guest room that are really struggle they're really struggling with so they're out of sight for a little while, give them a little mental break from that decision. And then we'll we'll pick that low hanging fruit first and get that you know, situated.

 

But again, everything is about math. And everything's about numbers for the most part when we're moving. So we have to think about square footage. And we measure and we do a very articulate space plan. And if they can't fit it, they go well, I guess, I guess I can't keep it then. And that usually helps that decision get made. Right. But for the I don't know, area, we do revisit that. And then we have techniques for helping them make decisions, which is exhausting. So we do try to do those low hanging fruit easy decisions.

 

First, we get their muscles built their decision making muscles built really strong. So that when we come back again and again, they're like, I know how to do this now. And I had a talk with my sister, like you said, or my brother, my aunt, she said to let it go. She said she didn't want it. And I'm so glad you made it color.

 

Roy Barker  51:37

I think that's good to build that up. Because it's like, even me personally, it's like that second go around. Okay, now what seems to get easier. And then it's like almost some of these definite keep things you kind of decide, no, not really, I'm going to go ahead and get rid of that.

 

Jill  51:55

I guess the best tip I can give you before we all say goodbye here is to make sure you start in a storage area or a basement or an attic or something that you haven't lived in for a while because you might hit a log jam, like an old photo album or a baby's christening outfit or something that's okay, you can put that aside.

 

But I will tell you that 90 to 100% of the time when we start in an area that's not common space anymore, not lived in space. Like an old kid's bedroom, or a guest bedroom or something that seems to really help build that confidence. And if we only start out with two hour sessions when we start, and we work up to four, and sometimes six, if you know we're getting closer to a deadline. So try to pick a sweet spot and set a timer for about, you know.

 

We set the alarm for like two hours, then we check in and say can you do another hour? And if they say no, we're, we're pretty much toast now you know, our stick a fork in us, we're done. We stop. We tidy up and we make schedule for the next time. Because it is exhausting. And I think that's one thing to remember is just to do a lot of self care during your decision making process,

 

Roy Barker  53:14

right? And another great reason to start earlier rather than later. So you can give you know give you today. Yeah, give yourself a break. I mean, this is going to be a difficult. It's not only physically demanding mentally, emotionally, it's going to wear you out. So give yourself some time to be able to go through it at a good pace and not just wear yourself out.

 

Jill  53:37

That's right. That's right.

 

Roy Barker  53:39

All right. Well, again, we are way over. But we appreciate all the great information. It's always fun talking to you always learned something. So again, tell us about what is a habit that you use a habit tool, something you use in your daily life, that you feel like adds value personal professionally.

 

Jill  54:00

Um, I know that I absolutely could not live without the calendar feature in my phone. Because task lists are fabulous. But appointments with myself for that task are vital. And as I age, my memory isn't so great. So I can trust that when I do think of something and I put it in as an appointment. I'll never as a professional organizer, I will never be late for my own appointments. So that's very important. And

 

Roy Barker  54:39

I learned this from an early age I got to go through back in the day was Franklin I think was the system that we use, but it's so refreshing. Yeah, this summer refreshing like to dues or calendar stuff if he just to me if I get it marked down. I don't have to keep worrying about am I forgetting something or thinking about it. It just really takes took that away. And it's like, it almost makes you feel feel kind of free. Once you get that off your mind, you know, it's taken care of, and someone's gonna remind you,

 

Jill  55:08

I went to a class. I'm sorry, I just

 

Terry  55:13

said, then you're not thinking about it.

 

Jill  55:16

I was about to tie in with that. I went to a class out quick. This neuropsychiatrist was teaching my professional organizer group, I belong to an association, and he came to visit. And I raised my hand and I said, I used to not take notes. And now I find that I need to take notes all the time. Why is that? Is my brain can the brain get full? And it goes, absolutely, it can get full. And I was like, really, because your sponge is full.

 

Like, you have to get rid of it. You have to download your brain. And he said, Jill, you're writing to forget not to remember your you don't want your brain to remember everything. Let your brain have a break, and give it room to learn new things, but don't have a try to remember everything. What do you do it? Yeah. And I was like, Oh, my God, that's brilliant. So I just keep downloading and downloading and downloading.

 

And I feel like, I am free to think and feel. And it's like I'm making space. I'm decluttering my brain. It's amazing. So do not take this. So you do I do now because I want to I do. I don't want to have to remember because the paper is taking care of that. For me. The phone notes feature is taking care of that for me. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  56:35

Yeah, always, always kind of joke that I have a 20 minute hard drive brain and again, a one terabyte rule on the stuff that's coming at us on a daily basis. Now, again, this gets kind of off topic, but it gets back to we need to give ourselves a break. If we could just understand the sheer volume of information that comes at us daily, you know, we wouldn't expect that we would understand it. And I'm like you I think taking notes and use a automatic note taker for some of our calls. And the nice thing is it not only takes notes, but it organizes it for you can fund it because there's nothing worse than having something that you know is value and not being able to put your hands on it when

 

Jill  57:24

they complete. You just summed up why we organize.

 

Terry  57:29

retrieval. Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for all the great,

 

Roy Barker  57:34

awesome. So tell everybody about discover organizing, Jill, how you can help them how they can reach out get a hold of me.

 

Jill  57:41

Okay, well, they can always visit our website at discoverorganizing.com. You can always call us for 412.344.3450. And we're here for you. Whenever you're ready. We do virtual we do virtual work from anywhere in the world.

 

Terry  57:59

And how about your books.

 

Jill  58:01

The book is called the one that's published is called I'm Right Here. And you can get that at I'mrightherebook.com or on anywhere where books are sold like Amazon. And it is also available on Kindle. And then Chronological Order The Fine Print For A large Life that is due out in a few weeks. And that will also be available on Amazon.

 

Roy Barker  58:25

great deal. Thanks so much. We will get back together sounds like we got four or five more shows up. All right, well, that's gonna do it for another episode of AGEUcational course I'm Roy. You can find us at www.AGEUcational.com. We're on all the podcast platforms iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify, we're not a one that you listen to please reach up.

 

Be glad to edit make listening easier. We're also on all the major social media networks probably hang out on Instagram more than it others. So reach out we'd love to interact with you there. You can also see a video of this interview when the episode goes live over on our YouTube channel. So check it out as well as some of our other past guests. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

www.discoverorganizing.com

www.imrightherebook.com

www.AGEUcational.com

Resources For The Sandwich Generation: Self-Care Leads To Better Caregiving Featuring Elizabeth Miller

Self-care is never selfish. Especially if you are a caregiver to an aging family member. If you don't take care of yourself you will not be able to take care of others. It's like when you fly and they tell you to put your oxygen mask on first. So let's make self-care a priority. Your aging family member will be much better off with you being healthy.

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth Miller is a family caregiver advocate, speaker, author, and Certified Caregiving Consultant. She obtained a B.A. in Journalism from Penn State University and has worked in corporate IT and strategy roles for over 20 years. Elizabeth’s personal experiences caring for aging parents with chronic and terminal illnesses and for a sibling with developmental disabilities inspired her to create Happy Healthy Caregiver in 2015.

Through her coaching services, speaking, award-winning podcast, book, and online community, Elizabeth helps family caregivers infuse caregiving and self-care with their busy lives. Elizabeth has been a presenter at the 2016-2019 National Caregiving Conferences. Her story was featured in Woman’s Day and Health magazines. She is the host of the Happy Healthy Caregiver podcast on the Whole Care Network, author of Just for You: a Daily Self-Care Journal, and facilitates an Atlanta support group for family caregivers called the Atlanta Daughterhood Circle, which was featured in the Washington Post.

As a full-time entrepreneur, Elizabeth works with employers interested in supporting their working family caregivers and with companies interested in amplifying their brands and services. Her interactive presentations offer practical solutions for caregiving and self-care. Topics range from preparing for a caregiving crisis, sharing the care with family members, self-care strategies, and balancing work and family.

about Happy Healthy Caregiver

Happy Healthy Caregiver is a lifestyle website, podcast, and consulting business that helps family caregivers create time for what they love and find time for their own self-care while juggling the responsibilities of caregiving. The daily demands of being a family caregiver is emotionally overwhelming, stressful, and physically tiring. Being a caregiver often leads to neglect of the caregiver’s own health which can result in obesity, fatigue, depression, anxiety, and other physical and mental health disorders.

The Happy Healthy Caregiver resources help family caregivers regain balance and control of their personal health and happiness while caring for others. With the Happy Healthy Caregiver resources and community, caregivers no longer feel alone and burned out but rather armed with the tools and support they need to prioritize and optimize their health.

The rich content on Happy Healthy Caregiver focuses on helping caregivers make small healthy changes, reclaim their time, ask others for help, express their emotions and needs, and better understand care resources and options.

The Happy Healthy Caregiver site and podcast covers topics that teach and encourage self[1]care for the caregiver. Each blog post, podcast episode, and instructive video shares tips and systems for time management, nutrition, revitalizing self-interests, exercise, and building a care team.

www.happyhealthycaregiver.com

www.AGEUcational.com

Full Transcript Below

 

Resources For The Sandwich Generation: Self-Care Leads To Better Caregiving Featuring Elizabeth Miller

Fri, 9/24 10:36AM • 54:19

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

mom, caregiving, day, care, dad, life, felt, big, people, caregiver, call, lived, family caregivers, kids, frankly, person, Elizabeth, books, parents, Roy, Resources for the sandwich generation

SPEAKERS

Terry, Elizabeth, Roy Barker

 

Roy Barker  00:02

Hello, and welcome to another episode of AGEUcational. I'm your host Roy,

 

Terry  00:05

I'm Terry

 

Roy Barker  00:06

Of courece podcast that brings you information on aging on the aged. We hope to you know, if you're taking care of a loved one, we hope to give you some hints and tips that may make your life a little easier. And if you aren't growing old, such as I am, you know, we want to try to age gracefully. We don't want to outlive our wellness. And so we'll try to provide some information on healthy aging as well. So today, we also have guests on a lot so today is no different. We have Elizabeth and Terry, I'll let you introduce her

 

Terry  00:40

Elizabeth Miller is a family caregiver advocate, speaker, author and certified caregiving consultant. She obtained a BA in journalism from Penn State University and has worked in corporate IT and district strategy roles for over 20 years. Elizabeth personal experience caring for aging parents with chronic and terminal illnesses. And for a sibling with developmental disabilities inspired her to create happy healthcare happy, healthy, give her caregiver, excuse me, happy healthy caregiver in 2015. Through her coaching services, speaking, award winning podcast book and online community, Elizabeth helps family caregivers infuse caregiving and self care with their busy lives. Elizabeth, thank you so much for being here. We're so happy to have you.

 

Elizabeth  01:30

Thank you. I'm delighted to be here and to talk with you all today.

 

Roy Barker  01:35

So tell us a little bit I mean, I think Terry kind of outlined your story. But if you want to expound on that a little bit, you know, kind of how you got here. And then of course, you know, some of the things that you've been doing for the last few years.

 

Elizabeth  01:48

Thank you. Well, yes, the caregiving for me was not, you know, an overnight crisis. It was a slow mudslide, frankly, that I saw coming, and could not really do anything to stop it. Even though we tried. I've got I had rather two aging parents who had multiple chronic illnesses, and also a mother in law who had lung cancer.

 

So my husband and I found ourselves squeezed in the sandwich generation taking care of two active kids in their middle school, and just starting high school years, and our aging parents, also in the peak of our career years, and we were overwhelmed and we felt isolated. So I was looking for resources, that that could help me. And really, I wasn't finding a whole lot. So I just started pulling in my journalism skills from the past.

 

And writing became very therapeutic for me. I started layering on different things, you know, became the certified caregiving consultants, so I could not only learn the skills myself, but how to coach other people, and then the podcasting and just speaking, things like that, because I just feel strongly that caregiving and in particular self care for caregivers, I felt, I don't know how you all felt, but I felt very invisible in the health care system as a family caregiver. I felt like people were really quick to tell me how I could take better care of my loved one, particularly.

 

My mom is where I had been done with primary caregiving and so she you know, had COPD and diabetes and, and mobility challenges and edema and sleep apnea. And, you know, here's here's tips on how you can do better nutrition with your mom, here's how you can get her moving more, but nobody was really seeing me as a family caregiver. And I just was not okay with that.

 

Terry  03:43

Yeah, my dad, we had a long my dad had Alzheimer's and for like, at least a dozen years, you know, and we lost him in 2014. But my sister and I kind of tag teams and if we didn't, you know, back then even we didn't have any anything any kind of it didn't feel like there was a community you know, as far as that caregiver and and the self care that's particularly the self care issue, because we would just it just stacked on just like you were explaining how it happened to you guys. Everything just kind of stacked up. Yeah, you already have

 

Elizabeth  04:24

a really full plate. Hey, let's just layer this big caregiving heat. Helping on the air and Terry, I'm sorry about your loss. My dad had also passed away in 2014. And that's when when we moved mom, she they were living, they were retired. They lived in Florida. I live in Georgia, and we move mom to Atlanta area. And then we also had to figure out what to do with my brother who is older than I am but has a developmental disability. And so we were luckily I have sibling helpers. You know, we've Some of my family that are great helpers and some not so much but we're consistent there we know we know who to who to go to

 

Terry  05:08

yeah and so many people do it have to do it on their own and being long distance I mean how do they do it? What kind of what kind of help can they get as far as you know if they're if it's a long distance

 

Elizabeth  05:27

well I mean for us when I was primary caregiving for my mom and then we we tag teamed in my family at some point mom lived in an assisted living near me which I know people think is like oh well what's the big deal she was in assisted living you know, it's still a lot of work and she was grieving she had never really lived on her own she went from her parents to marriage and you know.

 

I had to teach her how to advocate for herself we talked you know about boundaries you know, using trying to get her to meet me halfway on using the activities in making sure she was set up and it just it was a lot still on my plate and I felt bad that I couldn't be there as much as I wanted to the guilt was was definitely thick but then I was lucky like you said you know there's always some things we can be grateful for in our experience and I was grateful that I had the sibling help and my sisters lived in the northeast.

 

I had a couple brothers here locally so we did divide and conquer the long distance help they could you know do my one sister did all the bill pain you know, we just changed all moms bills to go directly to her another one that my parents had a summer home in Michigan she was managing that property She was also taking care of all my brother responsibilities because my mom was really no help with my brothers like we were guardians for him before we were really guardians for him. Um, and then just just locally, my brother brothers You know, one of them ended up doing some grocery shopping for my mom visit you know, we were trying to divide up our visitation so that mom had more local company you know, she wasn't as isolated so we did divide and conquer where we could.

 

Roy Barker  07:11

No, yeah. You mentioned this misconception about assisted living because there's I think it depends on where that person your loved one is in their journey. But it's a big change and so I think you know, the way that you kind of well my opinion it's like sometimes they can go into a shell when you when they make that move, and if they don't have that family interaction, and it's you know, they'll sit in their room and just wither away.

 

So I think that family involvement to get them involved in their new community, excuse me, but then also it's an unfortunate thing to say but a lot of times we spend the majority of our time managing the assisted living community to make sure that they're doing you know the things that they need to be doing and given our our loved ones the attention so it's not

 

Elizabeth  08:06

no it's not it's not a cakewalk. I learned a lot through that experience we actually had mom and two different assisted livings nearby you know the first one we picked because it had all these wonderful amenities It was like a country club frankly.

 

And you know, we kept saying my my sisters and I particularly and you know we at first we were looking for a place for both my mom and my dad to live and then my dad passed away and he was the stronger of the two of them which happens a lot in elderly couples and he was the glue frankly and he would have been the mayor of that assisted living you know, so we we switched to just finding a place for mom and we you know, thought she would really gravitate towards the amenities and the activities she we set up her room beautifully you know.

 

Everyone commented we tried to make it as much like her home as it possibly could be and we even stayed there the first couple weeks to try to get her acclimated and dine with her. And she just like you said, boys, she just was you know, my dad was the socialite of the two of them and he was the one that kind of pulled her out of things and she was content with going to her room but yet would complain a lot mostly to me about you know.

 

Well they didn't get my dinner on time it came up and it was cold or it well you're supposed to go to the dining room you know it's it's it's constantly and I just the phrase I kept saying with I was like, Mom, you got to meet us halfway. You have to meet us. This is part of your, your physical and your occupational therapy is just moving and interacting with people, but you can't do it for them. And it's hard.

 

Roy Barker  09:43

It's It's tough. One thing you brought up that I wanted to kind of talk about a little bit is you said that your dad was the stronger one and probably the the, the healthier well or one of the two. So that brings up an awesome point. It's not just when it's an elderly couple I mean we've seen this with parent a child relationship is that if you are caring for somebody that is that needs a lot of care the caregiver the percentages are really high.

 

That the caregiver will pass before the actual person they're caring for and I don't want to just lock that into you know, spouses that are older because definitely it happens a lot there because of the age and of course they may be in some compromised health but we also see it with you know, a child caring for a loved one that you know, they will make themselves sick because of lack of self care.

 

Elizabeth  10:44

Yeah, I mean, I don't know why we think that any any family caregiver thinks that we can just keep running and running and running like you might be able to do that for a short term caregiving sprint, you know, where it's just a quick hospitalization of a few weeks but if you're trying to make this a sustainable life, you've got to I think of energy as a synonym for self care. And we have luxury cars right that we pay a lot of money for and we think that we don't you know, they still need maintenance they need premium fuel they need a good wash you know, they and so why do we think we can treat this vessel any differently we are not super human beings we we need to keep energizing ourselves.

 

Roy Barker  11:32

Right right. And it's and I think we've talked a little bit in the past but we will will say that in what we when we talk about self care we're talking more than just we went to movies six weeks ago our you know, we went to it because somebody will tell you, oh, well we went to dinner. But what they don't tell you is we ran in we ate as fast as we could. And then we ran out and that you know.

 

All of a sudden that qualifies as a nice relaxing dinner. And so but there's more to it even than that is that it's those daily things it's eating correctly monitoring our diet, we're so worried about what this other person is eating and doing but we never think about ourself exercise getting the sleep and read it I'll let you expound on that. I think that's just a

 

Elizabeth  12:22

corner part like I think that self care for family caregivers looks different I had to you know, I had to go through this journey and I know for me even in the beginning, that was the physical self care it was the eating and the walking and the exercise and even sleep I didn't even really think of I just thought well I got to eat and I got to move more.

 

And then as I got more mature in my caregiving journey and started coaching and helping others I really feel like there's categories of self care you know, we've got physical which I mentioned but there's also spiritual, emotional professional, financial, practical social like there's so many different pieces of self care it's not just about a pedicure and a night out on the town it's it's more so about the little teeny tiny things we can infuse in our day so that we can show up for ourselves and be our best self and show up for others

 

Roy Barker  13:18

it's like the old adage in you know when you fly it's put your mask on first before you take care of others because if you're dying because of no oxygen you can't help others and it's the same way with caregiving I think in the beginning it's all good but as we start to wear down we're actually providing less than less care and help and sometimes even could be detrimental to the person that we're caring for and you know I used to work in do a lot of work with the long term care.

 

And that's the that's the time when we used to see a lot of abuse cases come out when staff was doubling over shifts when they were you know working days and days in a row no rest even personal stuff going on at home and it's not necessarily all physical but you know we snap at people we you know, say things we wish we wouldn't have and that can happen even with family caregivers as well when they get so tired and rundown put yourself in a bad position.

 

Terry  14:18

Yeah,

 

Elizabeth  14:19

I mean that's that's essentially why I started on this journey is I knew that if I didn't change what I was doing, I was at risk of repeating the same cycle that I was witnessing in front of me. So I had to figure out how to make self care priority in my own life. And I had just, you know, the first thing I started doing was on Instagram, I started putting 100 days of healthy and just looking for a little thing I could do you know, whether it was drinking water or parking further away, or, you know, journaling my thoughts down for the day, whatever it was, that I had just recognized like, Okay, I'm working on this. I'm making this a commitment.

 

To keep to keep moving forward because I didn't I don't know that I was completely burned out but I was definitely charred and I would say that I was not liking who I was seeing in the mirror I was the person you were describing you know impatient short fuse crying very easily you know at the drop of a pin just like everything was my emotions were just so heightened and I just felt like I was sinking frankly and I I didn't that's not who I am you know I'm just kind of I'm more of a positive see the glass half whole full kind of gal though.

 

Terry  15:39

Yeah, that's I mean that's just such a hard place to be it the stress of everything that but you've you found I mean, you found some some way to I guess journaling was a was a good source for you. Because that that's kind of what you do.

 

Elizabeth  15:59

Yeah. Yeah in journaling In fact I even I one of the first products I created was this book then just for you daily self care journal because I wanted people to experience some piece of that and so on each day there's like a little prompts to just I think a lot of times caregivers lose themselves in this process.

 

And so if this is a teeny tiny way that they can say there is a person still in here I still have dreams and memories and desires and things that I want to do and and feel good about so and sometimes it's just even like this one says Count your blessings list out a few of the blessings in your life you know, just being altering and reframing this whole journey and have this mindset was a big part of me and I think a lot of caregiving for me was just learning how to let go because I wanted to control it I was a control freak and just accept that there are certain things that are in my control and there's mostly a lot of things that can't

 

Terry  17:03

and that's so hard that's just so hard to come to terms with but if you can become aware of it or you know just acknowledge that you are not you're not in control really you're not in control of anything much

 

Roy Barker  17:18

yeah, I went to some training years ago and it's an interesting concept about about our cups being full and you know, because people could say something to you you know, if you're well rested, you've been eating good if you're in a great place somebody could say or do something to you and it's like they keep on moving never give it a second thought.

 

But a lot of times because your cup is full all it takes is one drop for it to overflow I mean this was such an awesome concept I wish I could remember who did it and the whole you know more details but i think it's it's not it's interesting because like if your cup is half full, you know another drop in not a big deal we move on but you know when we get to this certain level of just full emotionally physically everywhere then all it takes is that one drop to just make it overflow and in the other part you know, we've talked a lot about this relationship or the caregiver and the person that they're caring for but the other part of this equation.

 

I think you have to take into account is that you know somebody in your position more the sandwich generation you've got a husband a kids a job I mean, that is such a small I mean it takes a lot of your time and emotion I get that but when you look at it relatively I mean that's like a smaller portion of your life of things that are going on outside of that whole situation.

 

Elizabeth  18:53

Yeah, there wasn't you know, you had to be intentional, I was not going to find the time right to create it and I had to you know, and I coach people on how to do this. I mean, we look at everything that's going on and we figure out systems of how we can make this more sustainable and, and. Where there are some opportunities that we can get creative with some things you know.

 

Maybe there's a twofer I call it where you can you know get a walk in and catch up with a girlfriend or you know commute somewhere and listen to an audio book like there's so I had to you know, I'm I'm pretty lucky in that like my innate skill set is I'm a pretty organized person. I thought if I can't figure this out, there's no you know, that it's hard because at most people I look around I'm like I'm pretty organized. I pretty much can handle a lot but this is too much. This is way too much.

 

Roy Barker  19:47

Well, sometimes we grow into it. You know, it's one thing if it's a if there's a incident and you kind of jump in, but sometimes we start out slow and as the person we're Caring for deteriorates you know we start providing more and more attention and then you know you don't really realize it until you know you're kind of at that breaking point but it's been a gradual process yeah

 

Elizabeth  20:13

boiling the frog they call it right boiling the water when he or she doesn't know is getting boiled but that it's it is caregiving is a lot like that and you and you mentioned my kids and my husband and you know team Miller we had to figure it out. We had to you know my kids First of all, we're like mom and dad don't do the same things that your parents are doing to you. That's that's not okay. So they were on board with us, prioritizing our own health and happiness.

 

And you know, they were my kids were, someone gave me some great advice that I worked with. They said you want to be dispensable. And I was like, what I want to be dispensable. And they said, Yeah, most the time you want to be indispensable right at work. like nobody can do what you do. But in life things like wanting to be dispensable because I wanted my kids to be able to be okay without our hands and everything. And so we had some sit downs with them. They were in middle school, one was getting ready to start high school when my dad passed.

 

And in fact, I missed the first day of high school, you know, you miss a lot when you're caregiving and Miss holidays and birthdays and some things like that. But we sat them down and we said, Look, school is your job, like, you've got to check your teacher blogs, you've got to get your homework in on time. This is what we expect from you. We cannot babysit you we do not have time. You know, dad's daddy's helping his mom, I'm helping my mom at the time. Like, you've got to have this and it could be embarrassing. Sometimes I'd get around with my fellow mom friends and they would say Oh, just just Jacob or Natalie have so and so for a teacher or what did they get on this task?

 

Or was I didn't know the answers to those questions because I had set a boundary and just said, Look, y'all got to own this stuff. And they started doing laundry we did you know talk about that. I said, Look, you can watch me do laundry all weekend, or you can help with do your own laundry. And this is what we expect that to look like. And then we can go out and do something fun as a family on the weekend. Yeah, well, we had a lot of those conversations

 

Terry  22:16

and they and but they learned so many more practical skills from that process. So they're productive citizens and they know how to you they've been watching you. So you've been a good role model for them as far as the caregiving thing and that's just an indispensable tool right there is

 

Elizabeth  22:38

paying off now I mean we're all empty nesters we've got two kids in college now and people will say to me like wow your kids like and I'm like they had to they had to get their shit together like it just it wasn't an option we we you know we just we just had to survive that way so now you know they make comments or like my roommate doesn't know how to do their laundry or you know, they can't even enroll in their own classes and I'm like, yeah, you know that but they'll also say we had to do laundry at such a young age I'm like yeah don't.

 

Aren't you glad you have these life skills and teaching them how to make eggs like I was up and gone to work in the morning before they got themselves on the bus and I think you know in all those years my kids maybe missed the bus a couple times and we had a backup plan look if something should happen we don't want you to miss the bus but if it does call so and so you know their stay at home person they know that you know, they'll I'm sure they'll be happy to help because they know how crazy our situation is. So yeah, yeah, it's it's paying off so I'm really proud of the young adults that they both are.

 

Terry  23:47

Yeah, I would say I would have said yeah, I had to do laundry. Well yeah, I was gonna teach it when you were three for picking it up.

 

Elizabeth  23:56

funny cuz like I'm like you Terry, like my mom had six kids like we we had major jobs. But when I look around at my kids and their friends like we we expected a lot other kids but not even the equivalent of what I was expected to do as a kid. It's just funny how every generation is different.

 

Terry  24:15

Yeah, we had we had our things that we had to do and I tried to I tried to instill that with my kids you know, they didn't like the cleaning part of it, but I didn't care I mean, I'm like, I don't care Do it. Do it and I'm not there like you're just being me. You just want to clean out for free. Okay.

 

Roy Barker  24:34

Yeah, one thing that's interesting in this whole caregiver concept is the the duties typically fall to of all people the daughter in law, or at least the daughter, but I think it's interesting that and you know, Terry steps up and fills a role you know, with my parents not it's not really heavy duty caregiving, but she's in contact with them and you know, setting up stuff Rusty go see them. So it's just I assume that it's still pretty much that way. As long as

 

Elizabeth  25:07

it was like that, and my family were the sisters, we there's three of us, and we call ourselves sister power. And we would put our fist together, like, figure this out, you know, and my brothers, you know, I had one brother, that was really good. You had to tell him exactly what you needed him to do. Like he wasn't going to, he wasn't going to say, hey, maybe I'll take that on. It was like, Tim, we needed to do XYZ and he'd do it, he would always do it. I've got a brother that's development disabled. So he needed more work.

 

And then of course, I have that brother that it just every time we inserted him in anything, it just frankly, been harder. Yeah. And, you know, with Jason, my husband, he had to do it because his brother lived out in Arizona, we were in Georgia. So he, he assumed it and maybe I would have had more of a role in it had I not had my own thing going on. So we just were like, ships in the night at that point, like dividing and conquering and, and luckily, our marriage had, you know, had good foundation, and we had already kind of overcome a few hurdles. earlier on.

 

We're married 25 years now. So yeah, we we, we just rolled with it. I must think that we do better in the big crisis moments than in the little things like, wait, you didn't you're not helping to cook tonight, like, well, we can have a big fight about that. Yeah, like big stuff is, is where we shine, I think as a couple.

 

Roy Barker  26:30

Yeah. And planning is important. We'll talk about this because unfortunately, you know, we either as kids or as adults, we don't want to consider things that could happen. And so we tend not to talk about it. But actually, the opposite should be true is that we really need to talk about the what ifs, the sooner we can start that conversation, the better because we want to know, you know, what does our loved one want? What do they need? And

 

Terry  27:00

when are their wishes? Yeah, yeah,

 

Roy Barker  27:02

yeah. What are their wishes? Even though we have to talk about death? Sometimes, you know, what are your wishes at that time, you know, the Do Not Resuscitate agreements? Where's all this paperwork? You know, cuz it's like, you know, my parents have been awesome, they've created all the paperwork needed. case they pass Now, the question always is, where is that bundle of paperwork, you know, because it's, it's at the lawyer's office getting redone or it's at the house they're looking over could be you know, somewhere else. So always, you know, it's good to find out Where's where is this stuff just in case we need it.

 

Elizabeth  27:38

It's so important. And, um, you know, I, I call that practical self care, frankly, because it's, it's peace of mind, it allows you in the end, like none of us are getting out of Earth alive, like we are all going to die at some point. And so we, I want not only to have a good life, but I want to have a good death. And I want that for my family members. And I think the more what I've learned, you know. Through my dad's situation.

 

My dad passed first and then my mother in law and then last year my mom and we were much more together for Mom, you know, by them because we had lived through it. And, you know, dad, we he was super organized. He had given us our lawyers numbers, so we knew who to call when stuff happened. But we also didn't know everything like we'd thought they were much more financially sound than they were we got in we realized he had cancelled their life insurance. And he kept everything which is good and bad, because then you're like, well, which of this is the right?

 

Terry  28:38

So much to look through?

 

Elizabeth  28:40

So much to look through, but but we he was very organized, and we figured it out. And when we when dad was in hospice, we came across this pamphlet called Five Wishes. Five wishes.org is it helps you have that conversation. And it was too late for dad by that point. But we did do that with my mom. And we had conversations with her about it. We knew you know what him she liked and her Memorial. We knew that she wanted a Catholic mass, we knew that she wanted to be cremated and my dad was cremated, and we were lugging all these boxes around in our house at that point.

 

 

So we're in her house. So my mom and my dad were cremated. But buried in the same plot, I learned that you can get two boxes in the same plot and, and it was, you know, I think it's important to know what you want it to look like. And then it allowed us when my mom was and my mom had bonus years I call it because of not necessarily my caregiving because she was my sister. She lived with my sister and hands on the last four years. She lived many more years than we thought she would and because of that those we were able to video video different conversations.

 

Ask her different questions and we knew the end was coming. But we could just be in the moment rather than worrying about All the decision making I mean there's still a lot of work there's always going to be a lot of work and grief. It's exhausting. But it made it better that we could just be there. Yeah,

 

Roy Barker  30:12

you brought up the point that things weren't the exactly the way that y'all thought they were financially but let's talk about that as far as the condition of of a loved one when it it seems like when there's two elderly spouses living together and one of them is a little worse off than the other the other one seems to overcompensate and unless we really pay attention know what to look for maybe ask some probing questions maybe surprise visits, things like that. It's important we do that because again, we can be surprised when the healthier one passes and then all of a sudden it's like the other one is in so much worse shape than what we actually thought and I think it can go to getting the the healthier one the support and help that they need you know, earlier as well.

 

Elizabeth  31:12

Yeah, I mean looking back on it, there were some My dad was burned out, for sure there were some big signs. One of them was like this, I think was American Idol and they did this like big donation on the TV screen and he sent this scathing email to my myself and my siblings afterwards of like, how can all these random strangers provide so much help to this cause and yet my own family is was just really like passive aggressive and made us feel terrible but he'd never really asked for things but it was things like that that he started doing that we knew he needed more help.

 

And he expected it frankly like he was like you know, we'd had difficult conversations about well if you really want us to be more involved in your life you need to move back like they had lived in Atlanta at one point and they retired at the outside of Amelia Island Florida. And we were six hours away from family and that conversation never went well my dad was very firm he said we are saying here you are children we expect you to help with us and so we you know then did this tag team thing.

 

But to your point like we would go down there and visit beautiful place to visit although my parents had set a toe in the sand and probably you know the last 10 years with my mom and dad's life down there and we would notice that they were having like popcorn for dinner or there was like moldy food like one of my big jobs every time I go down there was cleaning out the refrigerator and oh my gosh is like things were just growing and rotting in there.

 

And like what are you surviving on Oh, we have popcorn we're having yogurt you know your dad will pick something up like that was his sanity as he would go out and they were both morbidly obese and food was their comfort and it just was like spiraling and making it even worse. But we did get some help we you know, found somebody on Craigslist that would come in and help you know make a ham and and I think a soup and and do some of my mom's personal care. And so and then her hours started to get more and more.

 

And that worked for a while. It's like things worked for a while and then something happens and we have to pivot and had to figure out something else. But we knew that they were never going to move closer. And that was hard until my dad passed and I was like mom, you cannot stay here by yourself. You are not capable. You know in her head. She thought she was right. And I remember getting so mad at her and giving her a piece of paper I'm like you write down how this is supposed to look in your head like I don't understand like, I'm the tough love daughter, first of all, yeah.

 

I don't know if you've picked up on that. But I'm the one that's like, That's crazy. And you know, but it did take me getting really emotional and vulnerable and letting her know how her her choices and what she and dad were doing and how they were affecting all of our health and happiness. And that was really I think what kind of and then her financial state too is like look you can't rent your place for more than a you know, it has to be rented for a year like you have no you can't stay here. We can't afford to keep you here. It was it sucked it frankly, it sucked and I don't know how we did it. Frankly, looking back on it.

 

Terry  34:23

Oh my god and that's when that's when everybody knows I'm serious is when I get into that emotional state.

 

Elizabeth  34:29

Yeah, I get Yeah, it's been years I can still get the little cracky boys and then Glock

 

Terry  34:36

IUD. I wouldn't like you just talking about it. I'm like, Oh gosh, and I felt it too as we did that same thing.

 

Roy Barker  34:44

Yeah, the really good thought there and just like I am evaporated, but we'll just say you know gay getting those observations and oh, I was gonna say A lot of times what I've observed with my parents will say is that you know like mom will she'll base decisions or actions on things like maybe 20 years ago and you know it's she's in good health and good state of mind it's not that it's a bad thing but she doesn't realize that she's aged. I mean, she actually thinks that she's younger than me somehow I don't know how she gets that math done. She's like, I think when I when I turned 40 she's like well you're finally older than me now. like

 

Elizabeth  35:33

crazy thought like I'm 50 this year and I think about like I do think about like when my parents were 50 and I'm like I'm 28 in my head for sure like I froze myself there but I get what you're like the doctor one of mom's doctors said a great she's he's like she's detached and like that's it she's detached from reality like she would frequently you know.

 

I had to set boundaries when she lived nearby because of work and kids responsibilities and everything in my own. I needed time for to recharge. And so Wednesday night was kind of ended up being our night. Where I would go after work I would bring a picnic. We would you know do some of the things on her list and you know.

 

But this was like boundary setting every time I was like mom I can't you know every time you call me drop everything and fix stuff and you know I would get there and she'd be like, well you can watch movie right you can do this or and I'm like mom I gotta get up and work I get up at 5am I gotta go work I gotta go to bed so I can go to work tomorrow and she would yell at me about coming to take her to doctor's appointments and she was in a wheelchair and I would make the earliest appointment that I could in the morning because one chances of it getting delayed were last you know either do that one or the one right after lunch right like those are your best chances of getting in at a time.

 

She would be like you move too fast we're Why do we have to do this so early as like mom it's like a half day for me every time I take you to a doctor's appointment because you know you move slow we got to drive there and then you miss a meal I got it I got to cover a meal and I want to I want to spend time with you while we're out we might as well like it's a it's an event yeah and she just was you know like you said just detached and we would have a lot of arguments usually what I would do is get her in the car and I would turn the 50s music on and that would recover recover us

 

Roy Barker  37:25

yeah cuz we just you know my my mom and stepdad just downsized and you know before that event I was like you know you need to give yourself some time this is going to be not only emotionally hard trying to sort through what you want to keep but it's going to be physically demanding because they had a two storey home so up and down the stairs you know who you're going to get to carry this stuff outside or to the storage or deal with it some you know it's like there's a lot Oh no, it's a I've got our plan I'm gonna you know I'm going to take care of it this weekend

 

Terry  38:00

and then like and they had been there 2025 years yeah, about 3535

 

Roy Barker  38:03

I'm like, I'm sorry. And she's like oh yeah, I've got it planned out where it's just I'm gonna get it done this weekend and so like Monday morning she calls and she's like so tired she's like she's I think you might be right this might be a really big job yeah.

 

Elizabeth  38:22

Office in a weekend right so you know you get interrupted all the time with with life and dogs and bathroom breaks and more. Yeah, when mom was she was a mogul and when we moved her out of her condo down there and because she wasn't mobile, we have basically like take things to her and like what about this?

 

What about this and ah, it's Yeah, so many books she collected first edition books and I they have a place in Michigan that now as my sister's home and going through all of those books, it's like, I love books. And that you know the writing and the reading that came Those are things I inherited from my mom for sure. But it was a lot of stuff. I think that generation two just likes a lot of stuff. I found as a caregiver, maybe it was that maybe it was just like oh my gosh looking around.

 

But I wanted less to take care of I wanted I was simplifying things I would even like go in my wardrobe and I would hear about something called a project 333 it was like 33 items in three months seasonal capsule and you know just less decisions to make it was like Okay, these are my things I were like this is it I don't have to go crazy and almost like what was it Steve Jobs wearing the black turtleneck and the you know, it was like, it was one less thing he had to think about and that kind of stuff. I was so attracted to figuring out you know how to make the meal plan is like anything that I could create a system around because I just didn't want to take care of more stuff.

 

Roy Barker  40:00

Well let's call it this decision fatigue and it's a real thing I mean if you think about the decisions that you make in the day some consciously some you just do subconsciously but and then the amount of information that comes at us each day I mean it's it can be overwhelming I think those systems are and I'm actually I've actually talked about subscribing to that is you know dislike having nothing but blue pants and a blue stripes you know having the same one and I guess I'll have to wear a tag on my car that says yes this has been washed it's not the same

 

Terry  40:34

deal like you know pre k kids were were you know younger elementary school kids where you put the danger yeah like gray animals

 

Roy Barker  40:43

yeah cuz I'm like and somebody like me I mean I'm jeans and T shirt that's me so when I have to put big boy clothes on and go out to the world I have like these match you know it's it's a thing and it shouldn't be so anyway i think that's that's funny but anytime we can create those systems to take those decisions it's it's a big win

 

Elizabeth  41:05

Yeah, I think that's kind of back to the self care part. You know, I had found that stacking on habits you know, was a successful move for me again like a system where you know, morning my husband I would talk and it was when the kids were in school I was like, okay if something derails us from the work day, you're the morning guy, you know you're you're the morning guy I'm going to be the afternoon person and that gave me my morning because I found like nobody really wanted my time at five 6am in the morning.

 

So I was kind of really where I started carving out the self care for me and stacking things you know like taking my supplements getting my water packing my lunch you know we're listening to the podcast on the way to work and just feeling like then better that I had paid my health first in the morning you know was important to me so that then I felt like I could show up as the person that I want it to be if throughout the day and I get you know you know yourself fast like I'm a morning person I get weary as the day goes on but I found that habit stacking was a real successful way for me to infuse more self care

 

Roy Barker  42:13

Yeah, yeah, I was gonna talk a little bit about the downsizing because you know we've done that the one one thing I will say is I do have I don't know eight or 10 cards, you know, big tubs of books that's one thing I could not turn loose of them so my kids won't be hating on me for that when they have to go through all the orders

 

Terry  42:32

more I mean a couple of weeks

 

Elizabeth  42:35

I'm right in there with you. They're they're a beautiful thing but some there's probably there's a there's a guy or gal that'll come and look at all the books and make sense of it all where you can do what we did and they can have a little free library in your name we did this for my mom and my mom was an author and so we have one up at the lake and we have a flagpole for dad at the at the local park and a little free library for mom and it's a great way to honor their memory so I think I like finding things like that like what you're into Oh yeah,

 

Roy Barker  43:09

are you taking notes

 

Terry  43:10

Oh yeah. That is that that is a given right there set me up for lumbering Yeah.

 

Elizabeth  43:16

How does that feel Roy knowing that you're gonna be maybe look at it he's

 

Roy Barker  43:20

like that's great. It makes it all worthwhile because I I worry about my books I want them taken care of you know,

 

Elizabeth  43:26

I was the same way she looked she looked at me and she said you're gonna take care of my first editions and I said yes, but I didn't realize how many there are. So then some of them I was like I'm not interested in these Hillary Clinton first edition I think these ones can go

 

Roy Barker  43:40

on bigger my kids will have a burn barrel they'll be just like throwing them in there. Like we're gonna get rid of

 

Terry  43:45

my

 

Elizabeth  43:47

money they can they even if they sold them, and they went on an amazing trip. You know, in courtesy of Roy Barker have a big family legacy trip like, Oh my gosh, you know, it just thinks something, do something something worthwhile, meaningful?

 

Roy Barker  44:02

I don't know. If mine are that valuable. They may not be able to go across town with

 

Terry  44:07

my mom. I mean, she has a lot of books, but it's like, a lot of tell all I know she has a lot of everything. But she kept headlines, just newspapers from headlight, like, from the 60s, like when Kennedy was assassinated. She's got all those a bunch of national inquires and they might be valuable. That's what I think my sisters were trying to get rid of them and I was digging them out of the trash pile. My mom's like, would you say we're going

 

Elizabeth  44:39

against them? It's funny when you're going through their stuff. It's like when my dad passed, he didn't have a whole lot that was like super meaningful for him. I don't have it in front of me. But the one thing I wanted it was like, you know, we were kind of like this or anything that you guys want the minute of dad and I was like, I want his bookmark.

 

He had this. He had this Budapest embroidered bookmark that just was like that's how I remember you know him reading it and so I use that in whatever I like I still like to read an old school book at night because I'm not supposed to have the screens and so I use my dad's bookmark but in case of a fire I'd be grabbing that you know, for Mom It's like you I have some of her jewelry you know I have her Smoky Quartz ring that I like the one I'm wearing now is my mother in law's so there's certain things that don't necessarily have to be like really expensive valuable, but they're just meaningful.

 

I even took one of mom's perfume she had her fancy perfume of Chanel number five and then she had her like everyday perfume of emeraude and so I have her everyday perfume of emeraude on my dresser and every now and then I just need a little sniff a mom and I'll just just it just makes me happy

 

Terry  45:51

that's awesome and you can take pictures i mean you know if the things are bulky or if it's just something that you you know yeah, you want to be your attempt kind of attached to it emotionally and it would be a great memory to bring up just take picture it's

 

Elizabeth  46:07

got to mean something to you I guess is my point like guidelines aren't important to you. Then they gotta go because we can't keep lugging around every dead person that we love stuff into our life like it's just someone else can't go through it at some point. Yeah,

 

Roy Barker  46:22

right. Or kids stuff either

 

Terry  46:25

oh my gosh, yes, I have tubs of my kids stuff and they got

 

Elizabeth  46:29

to take your tubs it's time Terry 23 and

 

Terry  46:33

29 and my nine year old lives in California and we're in Texas now

 

Elizabeth  46:38

um get your tabs kids I know

 

Terry  46:42

next time she can't because I have a storage unit we have downsize and I yeah, I have a storage and a half unit and that I just need to get rid of some stuff but

 

Roy Barker  46:52

that's another episode

 

Terry  46:53

yeah that another episode.

 

Roy Barker  46:54

Elizabeth thank you so much for taking time out of your day to be with us it's been a very interesting and enlightening conversation. Before we get away a couple things first off what is a tool or a habit that you use every day? Personal professional that you feel adds a lot of value?

 

Terry  47:13

Hmm

 

Elizabeth  47:14

Well a couple things come to mind one I'm in a smoothie kick right now so it's a good way for me to get all my fruits and you know some spinach and some good stuff in in the morning and then lately I've been walking like just old school walking these dogs you know, in between zoom sessions and I'm on a 30 day 10,000 steps a day street like I'm running I'm doing what I've called micro walks where it's just like 1520 minutes three or four times a day and I need to get up anyway i get i can't sit here all day long.

 

Roy Barker  47:50

Yeah you know I changed I've talked a little bit about change watches from the bigger brand name activity watch to I went back to the Fitbit I just Yeah, I just seem to like it better I've got the I think the charge for but it's got a new thing that cues you to get up every hour and get 250 steps in which is good number one because I could sit at this desk for you know 10 or 12 hours without ever getting up.

 

And so it makes it break up the day to get up walk around kind of clear my head for you know it takes what less than five minutes even just walking around the house but the nice thing is if I have time to go out and take the bigger walk at the end of the day I've already got like you know 2020 500 steps towards my goal just from those little inner minute walks through the day Yeah,

 

Elizabeth  48:43

I love that little reminder session it's are 250 step and I'm a carrot person like just give me a little carrots and right we can be in a competition there Roy oh my gosh, yes,

 

Terry  48:58

that would help with the with the 10,000 steps or two days right?

 

Roy Barker  49:04

The bad thing about me is like you know working at home there's been days when I've just out of bed to the desk set here. At the end of the day I look at my watch and says you know 530 I'm like oh how pathetic is that that I can go a whole day and take five

 

Elizabeth  49:21

favorite days or when it's like one o'clock and the 10,000 step and I was like I could go to bed if I wanted to roll my gosh he's for babies though. We've got a one year old golden doodle puppy. She's keeping me healthier because I got to get her out and move in. She's having a little nap right now but we're going to

 

Terry  49:38

ours or you can probably hear him in the background slurping up the water No, but they really are and they take us for a drag so it's kind of more activity more more exercise because it's

 

Roy Barker  49:51

resistance based. I'm trying to hold up not get not

 

Elizabeth  49:54

Oh, I got an old one. I just leave him at home.

 

Roy Barker  49:58

Alright, well tell everybody Who do you like to work with? How can you help them? And of course, how can they reach out and get a hold of you? Show us the and when you get through, just show us the journal journal one more time, okay,

 

Elizabeth  50:10

well, so you can reach out to me at Happy Healthy Caregiver .com happyhealthycaregiver.com, and that'll connect you to whatever your social platform choices and that type of thing. So basically, I've got a kind of a twofold business, I help family caregivers, I offer coaching, I do a complimentary coaching session the first time so people can see what it's like to work for me.

 

I have the product that just for you daily self care journal that people can buy on my website, it'll be signed, free shipping. And then I do I facilitate a Daughter Hood circle here once a month in the Atlanta area, if people want to get daughterhood.org, you can find a circle near you. So that's how I help caregivers and then how I help other businesses and how I really monetize My business is by working with companies and employers who are want to hire me as a speaker to come in and talk about self care and talk about caregiving.

 

And also help amplify their brand. I do different content, partnership packages on my website with my podcasts and different things like that. So it's a win win situation, you pay me so that I can help more caregivers. That's basically what my model is, that's an

 

Roy Barker  51:25

important, um, hate to just drag this out, we'll end up we'll have some time, I'm sure the tape will run out. But that's an important benefit, I think for businesses to look at as people like yourself, because what happens is in the business, we have become detached. We don't know our employees, we don't know what they're going through.

 

All we know is that one day they come in and they quit. And so you know, they may quit because they're taking care of a parent and they don't have time. And we lose awesome employees knowledge base and all that. And so I think there's it should be, there should be a growing need for companies to have experts like yourself at their call to help employees deal with these situations and have a conversation because that's usually the breakdown is there's no conversation about what's going on in your life.

 

How can we help do we you know, if we really want to retain this person, but getting some tips, tricks of how they can re reorganize their life, maybe altering work schedules, maybe more flexibility, where it's like, Hey, we got in, like you said, you go to the doctor's appointment, you think you're nine, I'm gonna get this done, we'll get a bike at home, I can be there by noon, and then the doctor doesn't show up or something else goes bad and it's like two o'clock. But, you know, we need to have understanding that. Maybe there's something they can do at home, maybe they can work a little later in the evening. You know, there's all kinds of ways that we can make adjustments, we just have to think about it.

 

Elizabeth  53:00

We have to make a caregiver friendly culture for sure. And a lot of times, you know, what I do in some of my speaking events for employers is I'll dust off their own employee assistance program benefits, because I know for years, I didn't know what mine were. And so I'll insert them into my presentation to say, hey, did y'all know you have this stuff accessible to you? But when it's when it's structured around that context, people will use it and get it.

 

Roy Barker  53:26

Yeah. All right. Well, thanks a lot. I promise we're quitting This time for sure. Elizabeth we thank you so much for your time. It's been pleasant speaking with you.

 

Elizabeth  53:36

Yes. Thank you so much. I enjoyed getting to know y'all better.

 

Roy Barker  53:40

Alright, that's gonna do it for another episode of AGEUcational. Of course, I'm Roy. You can find us at www.AGEUcational.com. We're on all the major podcast platforms iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify, we're not a one that you listen to reach out. Be glad to get yours added make it easier for you to listen, we're on all the major social media platforms, probably hang out on Instagram reach out we'd love to interact with you over there. Also, you can see a video of this interview when the episode goes live. Check us out on our YouTube channel and some of our past guest as well. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

www.happyhealthycaregiver.com

www.AGEUcational.com

Three Generations of Family, How They Overcame Geographical and Cultural Distance Featuring Dr. Henriette Javorek Runte

As families expand and grow older distance and culture can become a great divide. As parents we want our kids to know their grandparents, but sometimes distance makes that hard. It can be difficult for grandparents to relocate after they have built their life, friends, and routines. And then there is culture!

About Dr. J

Dr. Henriette Javorek Runte, aka Dr. J, is a Hungarian - American academic with a Ph. D. in literature. Dr. J was born in Transylvania, but grew up in Texas.

She has worked at universities in France, Germany and the USA, and has been heading Modern Languages at the University of Hamburg since 2008. She is the founder of Éditions Quadylle and publishes under several different pseudonyms, including Anna Molnar, Nira Nabro, Henry Hills, Renée Kerovaj and Henriette Javorek.

Written in honour of her elderly parents, We Fade to Green is a tribute to generations coming together and to spunky grandparents with an attitude.

www.cultureum.com

Instagram page @quadylle

www.AGEUcational.com

 

Full Transcript Below

Three Generations of Family, How They Overcame Geographical and Cultural Distance Featuring Dr. Henriette Javorek Runte

Sun, 9/5 1:40PM • 59:41

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

parents, book, grandparents, character, kids, germany, child, growing, hungarian, podcast, move, kansas, big, grandkids, romania, important, write, grandfather, hungary, older

SPEAKERS

Terry, Dr. J, Roy Barker

 

Roy Barker  00:02

Hello, and welcome to another episode of AGEUcational. I'm your host, Roy,

 

Terry  00:05

I'm Terry

 

Roy Barker  00:06

Of course we are the podcast that brings you our journey through aging, some things that we're finding out also not only from a personal standpoint, but things that we find out, you know, from helping our parents through this process as well as always something new to learn. A lot of times we are pushed to the point of having to learn it in crisis mode. So part of the podcast is to, you know, let's talk about these things. Get them out there, maybe people can make some decisions before. They're actually in crisis mode. We also have guests on from time to time today is no different. Terry, I'm gonna let you introduce her today.

 

Terry  00:44

Dr. Henriette Javorek Runte, aka Dr. J is a Hungarian American academic with a PhD in Literature. Dr. J was born in Transylvania but grew up in Texas. She has worked at universities in France, Germany and in the United States, and has been heading Modern Languages at the University of Hamburg since 2008. She is the founder of Editions Quadylle and publishes under several pseudonyms, including Anna Molnar, Nira Nabrow, and Henry Hills. and Renee Kerovaj, and together wait. I'm sorry, Renee Kerovaj. I'm sorry, I'm stuck on that one. And Henriette Javorek written in honor of her elderly parents We Fade To Green is a tribute to generations coming together and to spunky grandparents with an attitude. For more information, please visit the website coultureum.com or the Instagram page @Quadylle. Dr. J, thank you so much for being here. My pronunciation really well with all those names. Not easy to pronounce. I mean,

 

Roy Barker  02:08

just for our audience's comfort, we will put all that in the show notes as well. So you don't have to try to figure that out all.

 

Terry  02:17

Y'all can figure it out. Well, I'm so happy to have you today. I've been excited to talk to you about We Fade to Green and just your experience your personal experience. Let's start at the at the beginning. I mean, how did you come to where you are today and writing the book? what led up to that?

 

Dr. J  02:42

Well you mentioned a lot of interesting things in the in the in your introduction about your podcast and what it's all about. And I really support you in that i think it's it's so important to share our experiences and not just you know, our experiences through whatever adulthood middle midlife or middle age, but also about growing older and the elderly. And I think that there is a lot to be shared and a lot of a lot to be talked about as well. And you asked me about sort of my background and what brought me to where I am here and now. Well, one of the things that brought me to this and to to my book, since my podcasts etc, is the fact that I'm an only child right? So I'm the only child of immigrant parents so that I think has has always been something that's been very important in my life. It is a it is quite a unique experience right to be the only child and it is of course very important how what happens now so my parents are getting older and how do I can how do I continue being their only child and how do I continue supporting them so that is I guess one of the things that that's that's really special about only children and the fact that all the pressure then is on on them to take care of their parents or or to care for their parents. So for me I grew up in Transylvania, which is part of Romania. It used to be a Heather's there's all sorts of historical details about Pennsylvania but it used to be part of Hungary. Then it was connected to Romania etc. Where my parents were born. It was at that time Hungary but by the time I was born, it was already Romania. My father was the National Olympic weightlifting coach to Romania. And he had and he he had political problems, partly due to being Hungarian partly due to some of his political views about Transylvanian independence. And other issues as well. And he felt the need to leave the country because he felt he was in danger. So he defected in 1982. And my mother and I were left in Romania. And finally were allowed to join him in the US. So he defected to Germany, and then applied for political asylum in the US. And once he was accepted in the US, then my mother and I were allowed to ask to reunify the family. So two and a half years later, in 1984, at the end of 1984, we joined him in Texas in Bryan College Station, he was he was he was a strength coach for the Texas Aggies, he was I was gonna say, did you become an Aggie? I became an Aggie through and through, I love that I love the the college spirits and the campus at all it was it was it was magnificent. And it was great to grew up in Bryan College Station, it was such a nice, small town and and at the same time, you know, sort of cradled between Dallas and Houston. So the big city flare as well. So that my parents moved to Kansas and I went to high school in Kansas and went to k u afterwards, ended up then studying in France all over the place. And you know, as as a fate, we'll have it I I married a German man. So I ended up in Germany. So I'll fast forward a little bit. And so now here I am in Hamburg, Germany, with three children. And the husband and I everything is here, my house, my career, everything. And, you know, it's years later, and my parents who are very, very dear to me, and like I said, this, this only child experience of being so close to your parents and being such a small nuclear family, the immigrant side of it as well being so significant, because it is different, it would be different if my parents still had their high school friends, their college friends, their extended family, in the states with them. But it's different. I'm an only child. And they're my only actual connection. They are they of course, have friends, and they're completely integrated back home in Kansas. But they don't have these roots. Right. So now the family is divided and has been for a while. But it wasn't such an issue when everybody could travel easily. But with growing age, it has become an issue. And now with COVID. Of course, it was a we haven't seen my parents in two years. And that's been absolutely heartbreaking. And you talked about crises well. And the book as well. And then here I have the book, here we go. I promised Terry, I'd show it exactly where I actually wrote the book, in an attempt to try to convince my parents to move in with us in Germany. And I was trying to avoid a crisis, right. And so I started writing the book before COVID was discovered. And, and but unfortunately, COVID that hits and we were in this in this crisis, or our I guess, still in this crisis, where we were just separated from my parents for two years. So I do think it would have been important to have thought about it even beforehand, and I wish we had even come up with a better solution. So

 

Terry  08:53

Are your parents. May I ask, What age? Are they?

 

Dr. J  08:57

Are they in their 80s 70s? Parents are late late 77 or 78. Okay,

 

Terry  09:04

so do you think that they're they want to stay in Kansas? Because that's, that's their home? And that's where they want to retire and stay for forever? Or do they not want to come to Germany because of their history? with, you know, co Ed be closer to Transylvania and all of that. I mean, that's not an issue anymore, but maybe. I don't know what I mean. They don't want to leave their home. like,

 

Dr. J  09:41

Well, isn't that isn't that so the big question about growing older, right? I mean, I think the decisions the decisions you make in your 50s 60s, maybe even early 70s might be slightly different from the decisions you're gonna make in your late 70s 80s, etc. And I think a lot of it is based on health and strength and sort of the things that you're still able to do this things you'd still like to do. Yeah, no, it's it's, it's it's an ever changing dynamic, I think my parents who are very, very integrated and very much at home in Kansas. In fact, I conducted an interview with my mother, before COVID broke out, so two years ago, and I'm going to air that on my podcast in a couple months. Because it's so interesting, because it was before COVID. And it's, and she says, sort of, you know, I'm, we're so happy here. And that's, that's what I mean, you can't predict what's going to happen. And so when there is something when there is a crisis, like Roy said, then then it becomes that it becomes more urgent, and we haven't been able to travel so so of course, then it's a it's another question and sort of With this knowledge, right, of having experienced this for the past two years, then it becomes a different question again, do you want to be separated? Do you want to sort of continue, quote, unquote, risking it, you know, sort of long term and then again, guess some of your listeners are not going to have this comp, extra complication of having this immigration issue? Be a question as well. But right, so So I think the moving closer together, as a, as a family, as a nuclear family, is easier for my parents to move here. And I hope they I hope they will, I think it'd be, it'd be really nice. But they don't speak German. And that's, that's, of course, a consideration. So and if they if they moved to Hungary, then then it's still an hour and a half flight away. So. So it's not it's not that easy, either. But, but that's one of the things that I tried to do with the book. For those who are considering I mean, I, I'm a big advocate of three generations living together, I really, I really think that's, that's where life makes sense. You know, sort of where the the grandparents and the parents and their grandkids they, they're living together, bringing enriching each other's lives, helping each other. When I speak about moving together with my parents, it's not just that, that I want to help them, I think they would be immensely helpful to us. And it's not always just, you know, it's not always these these technical things are these specific things. It's not only about cleaning, cooking, making money or doing homework with the kids, it's, it's the emotional support, it's listening, it's being there, it says it just goes way beyond that. And that's one of the things that the book really tries to tries to show is that, at the so so right, and in the book, I tried to kind of twist the situation around because I wanted to be free and I didn't want it to be completely autobiographical. So So I have the daughter living in the US with her with her three kids and and her husband and the grandparents living in Transylvania still, so I just kind of turned it around. And and so the parents are supposed to be 80 years old or so and they can't make they they just can't get get get along by themselves anymore. So they decided to move to the US to live with their daughter. And, and it was important for me to talk about language issues, cultural issues, generational issues. And so they face all this in you know, still in a humorous way, because they're the audience or the reader is allowed to be removed from it. It's a bit of a fairy tale, it's still kind of like the characters are somewhat exaggerated. And so it's not as dramatic as it would be in in quote, unquote, real life. And the they face all the difficulties and everything goes wrong at the beginning of the book. And then they learn to come together, they learn to listen to each other, they learn to value each other's gifts, and each other's opinions, even if even if they disagree. There are for example, scenes where the grandfather, the APU character, has very different political views from his son in law. And so they, they agree to sort of talk but but that's the thing that that's The key they agree to talk about these things to a certain point, and when they can't anymore, they just kind of go and run it off. Right. And they continue trying to convince each other, they continue trying to speak to each other. Or, for example, the again, the apple character does these funny things like he goes to get the newspaper in his underwear. And so the homeowners association has had some problems with this. So they, so they're too They, they, they decide to reach a compromise. So instead of going in his underwear, he gets himself seven pairs of swim shorts, that he different colors from shorts. And so he goes and hits some shorts and gets the newspaper and those every morning. I don't know if that's, that's an actual suggestion. But I think the lesson out of it is, is sort of trying and continuing and communicating and keeping keeping it up. So

 

Roy Barker  16:07

that's interesting. And one thing I was just gonna even back up to the very beginning is I think they're special challenges for for being an only child. But then being an only child and distance, it just compounds that I'm sure.

 

Dr. J  16:25

Absolutely, absolutely. And I, at the same time, I mean, yes, absolutely, I think the relationship is a lot more possibly intense, you know, also growing up, the separation already, when you go off to college, when I went off to college is also a lot more difficult. And keep in mind that sort of my children are my parents only grandchildren as well. So it's not just it's not just me, but there's there are no other little critters running around either. So it's it's This is it. At the same time, I think that no matter what family you come from the family dynamic is always difficult, whether your two or three or four or here are there, there is always everybody's own little life is difficult to him or her so so this is just mine.

 

Terry  17:19

I think it's awesome that you've been able to intertwine that and to everything, it seems that you're doing your life's work, you know, and, and have kind of come to, you know, the part about getting them trying to convince them to come here that everybody wins. I mean, it's not just a decision that they can make, unilaterally, it's, it's something for everybody, because you are the only child and you have their only grandchildren. And if if they're going to be able to be a part of that which you want desperately for them to be so they can learn from, from their grandparents, their heritage, and, and all of the old stories of them growing up and just all of that is so important. And oh, gosh, you know, I I plot applaud you for trying to take on this huge, I mean, what else can you do? You're You're the only one.

 

Dr. J  18:23

And I think that's really sort of important. This this oral history, you know, that that we that we communicate by just talking to each other by sharing our each other's families is something that we shouldn't lose. In the book, for example, the grandmother and the grandfather love to tell stories, and they, they get in trouble with their stories. I won't tell you how people read the book, but so they you know, but But again, it's a generational and cultural gap. And again, it doesn't matter. So so so let people get in trouble. I think it's okay. And so so so the grandfather gets himself into these little stories, and he tells the kids things that maybe the parents wouldn't have wanted him to say and, and it it becomes a conflict but um but there's, there's a, I won't tell you about this part, because I really hope you'll read it. But there is at the end of book one at the end of the first part, all three kids get into just just massive amounts of trouble partly because of the grandfather and grandmother and the stories that they've been telling him and, and the messages and sort of the things that they've been encouraging them to do. But again, it's it's this this influence is not negative. It's just an influence. There is no there is not this, this this pointing and blaming it is just the process of growing up. And and it's the process of the grandparents also Learning to really know, their, their, their grandkids, I think sometimes we expect, well, whether whether it's grandparents and parents and kids or parents and kids, we often expect to sort of know each other just because we're the same genetic material or a genetic background. But it takes time people have to spend time, just spend time together. So, so that's, you know, some sort of, it's the same thing that the grandparents can't possibly know, what their their grandchildren, how their grandchildren are going to react or what, what they shouldn't tell their grandchildren because of this, or that unless they do spend time unless they actually experience each other. So. So that's, that's also I think, one of the one of the messages.

 

Terry  20:53

Yeah, and well, and with my mean, with my set, I have three siblings. And it's funny how I didn't realize that I was doing it. As far as I wasn't really setting any rules for my parents to not share certain things. I mean, I want them to share everything they can with my kids. So my kids knew who they were and where they came from, and, and all their stories. I mean, there's, you know, older people tell the best, they're the best education that we have. There's just no ifs, ands or buts about it, you can just learn so much from them. And it just kind of seems like, you know, when at when everybody started, all the kids in my family started having kids, and they got older, all of these not, there weren't rules set, but it's like, Okay, this is kind of not what we do today. This is what's happening now. And that's what happened then. And let's see how we can just, you know, put them together and co be cohesive and not cross any lines and make each other mad. And that's not, that's not what they were trying to do. They weren't trying to make anybody mad. And they didn't think there was anything, I can't even give you an example. It just seemed like there were some kind of rules, but not really.

 

Dr. J  22:23

Two examples from we fade to green are the cursing, banking. So yes, okay. For example, the Oppo character loves the curse, and he's just has a potty mouth in English and in Hungarian, he's just going around cursing around and and, and of course, the father character does not appreciate this and doesn't want the children to repeat any of these words, and the kids are shocked and at the same time excited. And so this is also something where they they reach a compromise where he's going to be allowed to curse in Hungarian but not in English.

 

Terry  23:01

Wow. And then they learn the language that way. That's kind of how I did it. When we were when I was little, my dad was in the service, and we were in Germany and Belgium. So, you know, that's what I was a little kid, you know, up till 12. And that's what I remember all the curse words. Like and speak all those languages? Well, it's I mean, but you learn the pronunciation with it. Whatever it takes.

 

Dr. J  23:29

And, you know, the the issue of of spanking, for example, I think that's also something that cultures disagree on, and generations definitely disagree on. And, for example, the apple character in the book, he always calls it beatings. And so everybody kind of cringes around. And he sort of says, My father used to beat me, and then they're like, no, good. And so so it's just I think that some of these issues are really serious. And, and I think if we talk about them seriously, if we talk about child abuse, that all of a sudden, it's just it just takes on a completely different dimension, then it's like a political issue, it becomes very, very serious and very, very dramatic and very important. And in the book, it's still this little fairy tale, this little alternate universe, you know, of these Transylvanian grandparents. And so you can talk about some of these issues with a lot, a lot, a lot more lightheartedly. And sort of, you know, it becomes it becomes very clear that sort of what the grandfather means is sort of like a little tap on the button and not in not in any way, or shape or form any beating or anything like that. And this kind of being discussed in the book as well, sort of what is meant by that and what is important and so, I think that's also something that that's that's that's, I think sometimes we shy away I'm speaking about these things, because it's very difficult to speak about it. So.

 

Roy Barker  25:05

So how, how long have you been separated? Or how, I guess? How long is this dialogue been going on? Because what I'm wondering about is the change over time, because I can just imagine how the conversation goes, is when your parents were younger, you know, maybe in their 50s or 60s? Yeah, yeah, we're gonna, you know, we're going to retire and get around to, yeah, we'll come over. And then, you know, as you grow older, it's like those things that you thought you might want to do. You become where it's like, I don't really not really going to do that. I'm just wondering, did that dynamic change for y'all, you know, over the last 10 years or so?

 

Dr. J  25:50

Well, sure, I mean, like I said, it's, we used to be able to travel a lot more so. So it was it was easier for my parents to come once or twice a year. And for us to go back. And, and so or for us to meet somewhere, so so they were a lot more mobile in that sense. I mean, like I said, the biggest thing that happened was COVID, that everything was was shut down. So

 

Roy Barker  26:13

well, maybe I can rephrase that maybe prior to COVID. Did you want them to still was the thought that they would come move over there even before COVID? And then I just wondered with them aging, you know, did that play a part in? Maybe them becoming more resistance as they went through time now? I'm just thinking about me. It's like, Okay, next, somebody says, Let's go out the next Friday. And today is Saturday or Sunday, you're like, yeah, that really sounds good. But then as you go through the week, and things pile up, and this goes wrong, and then all of a sudden, like Thursday night, you're like, Oh, I just don't think I can go do that. So I guess I'm kind of wondering, does that you know, where your parents? Was there even talk about the movement? Maybe that's where we should start? Was there even talk about them moving? To be closer to y'all, you know, pre pandemic, like five or 10 years ago?

 

Dr. J  27:12

It's always been discussed. Sorry. So the idea of us living together was always the plan has always been the plan. Okay, so when we bought our house as well, that's that was a huge consideration. So there's a whole little weighing that's that's basically their that's their, that's their little weighing. So they can move in anytime again. Listening, they can, they

 

Roy Barker  27:41

should think about surrogate grandparents. And

 

Dr. J  27:45

so, yeah, so. But, but it does change, you know, I mean, it does, it does kind of continue to change. So, so then it's been kind of like an up and down, you know, when the when the kids were born, and then it's like, they were they were going to move over right away. And and, but I have to say that we've done our share of of complicating it a little bit too, because, you know, we've been over there and we've been back. So so it's kind of it's kind of difficult to know. Okay. But but absolutely. For me, I think I really hope that just like in the book, there is there is utopia is possible, I think our own little utopia, our own version of utopia. And that's what's you know, sort of depicted at the end of the book, the family does come together, in fact, the whole community comes together. So it's not just it's not just the example of this one family, but the families around them also kind of take the example and it kind of trickles trickles down, and then it expands to the entire community. So so I think that that is something that that we are quite capable of doing. I think we are capable of speaking to each other and, and continuing to try to reach each other across generations across cultures, Across Ages across. So across countries. So yeah, that's

 

Terry  29:24

so have your parents have they been healthy so far? I mean, pretty healthy. Up till now.

 

Dr. J  29:32

Their health they can they manage on their own? Sure.

 

Terry  29:35

So doing it now would be much better than waiting until some kind of crisis happened. I mean, yeah, I

 

Dr. J  29:44

don't know. I mean, who knows? Yes, sure. I would think so. Yes, but again, I'm thinking of friends of ours where the grandparents moved in with them. Much later. Once one They had absolutely no no other choice. Maybe that's an easier event. So, I don't know, I don't think there's a formula, I don't think that you can just say, when is the right time? I think it just kind of, you know, when when do you get married? If you get married? When do you have kids? If you have kids? And when do you move in with your kids, if you move in with your kids, so I don't I don't know. I mean, it's,

 

Roy Barker  30:24

yeah, and then, you know, like, we encourage people, especially what's you know, bigger life decisions is, you know, think about, if tomorrow never comes, it's like, you kind of have to think about and also to, if you if you become too sick, or to the immobile, whatever it may be, but, you know, then you really can't enjoy that time. And, you know, we've kind of gone through that with, with my parents that it's like, downsizing, and getting into a more manageable place where they don't feel the burden of this house that they were in, and, you know, try to get some help with some things around the house to try to enjoy that life. And it's like, none on we're, you know, we don't need that we're just gonna keep on. But the problem is what you know, and I've done some work in the in that senior space is that you know, you, you get to a while where you think you're gonna do it tomorrow, and then all of a sudden, something happens. And then you don't ever get to enjoy that. So I just always encourage people to really think about that, that, you know, we're never promised tomorrow. So if there's something like that, that we really want to do, it's totally What is it now? There's never a better time than now sometimes. Yeah.

 

Terry  31:38

Now, we're never Yeah, that's terrible.

 

Dr. J  31:44

I yeah, I think. I don't know. I mean, something sometimes people are held back by by their fears, or by their I don't know, I think a lot of times, I think a lot of times, especially grandparents, they they they hold back, I think they don't want to be a burden sometimes as well, or I think sometimes they don't want to, or they're kind of afraid of how it'll go and the unknown. I wonder if it's also like giving us some freedom. I mean, it is it is difficult to live together. You know, I think I think having to compromise with people on the way you live and the way you do things, the way you get up and eat and it's difficult. And

 

Terry  32:35

yeah, well, they're trying to mesh it all together. Oh, my gosh, it's insane. Like me, I

 

Roy Barker  32:39

just do what I'm told there's no compromise necessary. Oh, yeah. That was sarcastic.

 

Dr. J  32:52

But I guess it is a choice, isn't it? I mean, it is a choice to sort of, do it exactly the way you want to, or, you know, or compromise. I mean,

 

Roy Barker  33:04

well, sometimes it's not that easy. Because, you know, if you've been on your own for 70, like your parents 7078 years, that's a can be a big change to make. But I, I'm an optimist, and I always think if it's something that everybody really wants to do, you know, they all can find a way. But again, then sometimes at a later age, you know, like, it's hard for us to change our, it's harder to change habits, you know, I don't, we don't necessarily want to, it's like, you know, there's certain things like getting up in the morning setting in my coffee and having a little quiet space to, you know, sit there and drink coffee for a few minutes. And that's not something I'm willing to give up. You know, that's all there. I guess I just meant there are things that you know, our little habits are these little things that we do that we think, well how would that be affected by you know, something that we're fixing change? So it's

 

Terry  34:01

everybody has to everybody has to compromise? I mean, it's not you know, it's all of it the whole the whole thing and then you know, a you know a lot about different cultures and in the States, you know, it just doesn't seem like it just doesn't seem like we risk not intent not that we disrespect our elders, but it seems like they go to they go to homes, you know, just they get older. They just go to homes, they don't move in necessarily with family members, or if they do they're kind of moved around. And, and then Asian cultures, it seems like that's just a given. They're just gonna do it. So I mean, what what is the Hungarian culture you know, your your, your father and then you injure your hand. Spend I mean what about his folks? How does it differ?

 

Dr. J  35:06

So it's funny because that's how the book starts out right so so there's this announcement that the grandparents are gonna move in because they can't they can't make it on their own anymore. And the father figures says well why don't they go to a retirement home? Yes, father figure says well you don't understand where Hungarians you don't understand you don't do that. And and then she she goes into house sort of where the grandparents that Nadia and opal characters are from there are no retirement homes. So now that's not entirely true for Hungary there are retirement facilities and assisted living facilities and in Hungary as well. Culturally, I would say it is more common for the for the grandparents to move in with their children or to have an apartment very nearby you know, so a small apartment nearby but I mean that I think I would never say that that's not an option sort of retirement homes I think there are there are really great retirement facilities and I think for Sam, that's that's a perfect choice i i think it can bring a lot to you know, to have these activities and to be in this and then in this other community I think that everybody has to decide for him or herself what what is right you know, but but certainly I think I really think there's there's a lot to be had from from the three generations living together. In Germany it's it's very much like in the US so so it is quite common for for the elderly to buy into a retirement facility early enough to where they they make this decision and decide to move in to this retirement facility. But again, I think there's there's a lot to be had, I think there's a lot of fun to be had from from three generations living together and, and sharing. And I'm thinking of another scene in the book where the grandmother the nahji character is very worried about being a burden on the on her daughter and her daughter's just not sleeping and working to match that she's already overwhelmed by the three kids in her job and everything. And so so the nahji character the grandma character at some point sort of becomes this this very strong instead of very like, like a superhero, and she takes on taking the Nerf gun have one of her grandkids and patrolling the house with this Nerf gun whenever the mom so her daughter is is taking a nap and so so she just sort of doesn't let anybody make any noise or anybody come near the bedroom where her daughter so the the mom is is napping, and I think it was just I was just sort of trying to think of a cute way that that the grandma character could still protect her daughter you know, and I think I think there are these things, these little things these little gestures as well. The love we get from each other the support we get from each other. It goes beyond just like I said goes beyond the cooking and the cleaning and the money and the whatever it it's these little things it's protecting each other with a nerf or I don't know there's there's another scene for example, where the grandpa character is always having tea with the little girl with the little with it with his granddaughter. And she ends up putting little berets in his hair and dressing him up and and he just kind of, you know, he just thinks that it's so great that she does this and just kind of goes shopping with his berets and everything. So even things like that, you know, sort of playing with kids having the time to sort of do silly things with each other I

 

Terry  39:10

think also that is just so valuable and they've earned the right to spoil their grandkids or just spoil them and give them back if if that's the case, but that's so so we fade to green came when did when did it publish when did it release

 

Dr. J  39:31

in 2020 and in December, I believe 2020 but I was I've been right I was writing it for Oh my goodness. I mean you know I have three kids and I teach all these things take me a while I think about three years, three and a half years so it was just on and off. And it was it was written actually together with the kids. So whenever we were on vacation, I would always get up in the morning around seven and you know my the rest of my family slept till now. I would always write from seven to about nine so on, you know, when we'd be off for a week here a week there, and in the morning or breakfast ritual was always that I'd read them the chapter I just written. So then they would say, Well, is there Grandma, you know, is that is that they call my grandma, my mom, Nana. So they call her Nana, is that Nana? Or is that Tata? And why is he do this instead of they try to find themselves in the characters. There's the I don't do that. But it was, it was a great way for me to write it. And again, it's just something. There's a lot of Hungarian history, for example, in the book as well. things that I've learned from my parents things that my parents have tried to teach my kids, but not know not everything's come through. So it's also this book was was it was a way to bring the three generations together again, and I didn't want to write it completely just by myself. So so you know, the kids were involved. My husband was involved. It was kind of a back and forth. My parents did not see it until it was finished. I

 

Terry  41:13

didn't I didn't I didn't want them to sketch what I wanted to ask if they have they read it and what your notes been to you.

 

Dr. J  41:21

So that's interesting. Yeah, that's very interesting. So my mom was very much bothered by this kind of slightly autobiographical, but not completely autobiographical. And she's like, what's the What am I a witch in this or What are you writing here and and I've never done that or I don't ever so in my father's I don't get the paper in my underwear. I mean, what is this? So so they were a little bit bothered by the you know, by my by my by the artistic liberties with with the characters and so for the record for their friends, or whoever's reading these books is not this is not my parents, they're not loosely based, loosely based. And, but yeah, they they love that. I mean, also once they once they realize that it was somewhat tongue in cheek and that there was supposed to be it's like a fairy tale. So So once they once they kind of, you know, you get to the first or second the third fourth chapter where once you get that then then you're in it and can can roll with it so

 

Terry  42:39

well and so and when they come not if they come when they come to Germany, you'll have to buy an arsenal of nerf paraphernalia. I mean, you can shoot anything with a Nerf gun.

 

Dr. J  42:55

But you know that that's something I mean, my mom was always very serious when I was growing up and very academic and very sort of strict and and things like that. And that's that's also interesting. With with her grandkids, she's an absolute goofball. And you know, already before she was rolling around on the ground and shooting nerves, and so that is somewhat based on her so she's never patrolled the house with a nerf, but she's shot nerves with her grandson, and

 

Terry  43:26

then she's ready to do it now,

 

Dr. J  43:27

maybe? Yes, I think that's that's also, that's also great, you know, sort of to have a second chance to raise kids or a second second, you know, second turn to influence kids. So, yeah,

 

Roy Barker  43:42

well,

 

Dr. J  43:43

Carrie, just just real quick, it's our turn to come. We're coming to, we're coming to the states in October and most thing for four months, and it is to live with my parents to make sure that they're okay. Partly to convince them you know, maybe I'll read the book out loud. Did you hear that? Did you hear how wonderful it could be? You know, sort of, did you hear what you do? So we're gonna, we're gonna stay with them for four months, and then we're coming back and kind of hoping that afterwards they might, they might come join us. So

 

Roy Barker  44:21

no, that's just gonna say it's, if you've never experienced it, it's it's such a joy because as I was growing up, you know, my we kind of lived in the country. My grandparents used to love to come out there and garden. And so, you know, and they would take us on vacation. So we were very close when I was a child. And then unfortunately, my grandfather passed, you know, before before my 20s but when I got married, had kids, my grandmother, she was very involved with our life like she would come out. She didn't live there. But you know, she probably stayed four or five nights out of the week, generally depending on what was going on. She still felt like she needed to keep her house it was across town. So it wasn't a you know, like International. But having my kids grow up with her. It's, it was priceless. It was just priceless. You know, and she spoiled them. And that was, you know, I think that was the only No, probably the only not tense, but the only part where we had to have a conversation every now and then is like, you know, she'd be like, Oh, you're being too hard on them, and you need to let it out. Like, okay, but you know, they've got to have you can be in the grand, great grandma and do whatever. But you know, we still have to get homework done and, you know, follow the rules. But it was, was unbelievable, really.

 

Dr. J  45:42

In real life, our issues ice cream, you know, sort of my parents think that they should have ice cream three times a day. Yeah, right there. That's our biggest in real life. That's our that's our biggest sort of conflict. You know, where I'm like, Well, yeah, I'm more sort of, you know, once a week as ice cream is okay. But then there was three times a day, so

 

Roy Barker  46:08

I think my grandparents were all like that, too. That's why I'm, that's why I love ice cream. I could eat it at every meal.

 

Terry  46:13

Yeah, and homemade homemade ice cream growing up. You know, Nana, Nana had a big old garden that pop off tended to with his cows and all that. And you know, we'd go down and stay with them in Texas.

 

Dr. J  46:28

I mean, one of the things we're looking forward to going to my parents house, they have a big vegetable garden. So we're looking forward to, you know, pulling out the onions and picking the fruit. And they've peppers and every I mean, it's it's really they have a huge vegetable garden. So yeah,

 

Roy Barker  46:47

yeah. And it's, you know, the value, I think is, is history. You know, my kids got to learn it firsthand, they could ask questions, I got to know how she grew up. I mean, it, it's interesting, we're not that far removed, that, you know, she grew up in a little bitty brick town not far from here that, you know, they had dirt floors. And, you know, for my kids to really understand where she came from. And then when we cleaned out her garage, you know, she had glass jars and pie tins that were, you know, kind of thin coming through the war, World War Two. And so she had these huge stockpiles of things, but it was easier for them to understand after a while that, you know, the way she grew up, and then come in through the war, you know, why all that so it. But the other thing I was just gonna make is if, if you're not in a position to be that close, and live that close with our tools that we have the day audio video, make some recordings. I mean, you may not care much about it today. But I think in some point in the future learning and knowing the history, inherited from that person themself, it will make a big impact.

 

Terry  47:58

Yeah, and FaceTime. And

 

Dr. J  48:01

you know, one of the things that my father has has done, he did it in my late 20s. And now he's redoing it. I've always he's saying, see, the beautiful singing voice means getting older, but and there are all these Hungarian folk songs that he sings beautifully. And in my 20s, he made a video for me back then he could still play the violin well, so he was also playing it on the viola nice, made a video for me, and it's, you know, it's one of these VHS tapes, and it's gotten old. And so now he's actually taking the time to re record it. And that's just, that's just such an amazing present for my children as well. to, to hear it and to see it and you know, and maybe they're even too small, maybe, you know, sort of but what you're saying another 10 years, it's, it's, it's even even more valuable. So I think absolutely things like that, or, you know, I did these two podcasts interviews, I did an interview with my mom and an interview with my dad. And that's also something that's just like stays these these these, these digital means of preserving some of our loved ones is also sort of still

 

Terry  49:15

Yeah. That's awesome.

 

Roy Barker  49:18

Well, that's very cool. Thank you so much for taking time to come share about fading to green. I mean, it's such an awesome story, and I think it can resonate. I think you're in an extreme position. But I think even with people that have this issue locally, or maybe even just across the states, not International, I think they'll be able to, you know, gain a lot from this. Oh, yes.

 

Dr. J  49:42

Thank you. Thank you for letting me tell my little story. I really enjoyed it. We had a little pre interview. We talked once before this interview. I already enjoyed that. And I enjoyed this now as well. So we'll have to keep in touch and share stories as well

 

Terry  49:58

as we hope Hopefully, you'll be able to tell us when they're coming and moving in and how that that has happened. That's right.

 

Roy Barker  50:07

You never know they may get you over here and make you do you can't refuse for y'all move on.

 

Dr. J  50:13

Moving back to Kansas, you never know. I mean, there is no place like home, you know? Really?

 

Terry  50:19

And coming when you I mean, October for four months. You're right. You're right there in the winter, but it will be nothing. I mean, Germany is cold. Oh, it's

 

Dr. J  50:30

not. Well, Kansas gets more snow than Germany's colder. Yeah. Okay. hotter and colder. So but, but Kansas has beautiful for season. So fall in Kansas is absolutely absolutely lovely. So cool.

 

Roy Barker  50:44

Maybe we can get together when you get out. If you get down the ground, the Dallas area will have to,

 

Dr. J  50:50

you know, don't I think I will be after Thanksgiving. I still have my best friend and in Dallas in Dallas, Texas. So actually, I have three good friends. But so oh my goodness, now. They're all they'll each think they're my best friend. So Oh, y'all three are my best friend. But I'll be visiting them with the kids. And so you have better get a hold of us. Well, I will and we might be doing a couple readings. So depending on how COVID allows him so but I will definitely let you know. So we might we fade as well. So yeah,

 

Roy Barker  51:24

I'm not gonna put you on the spot on camera. But if we are getting public, I'm definitely gonna have to figure out this. Why you chose Kansas over Hmm. Oh,

 

Terry  51:34

I know. When I get to the Midwest. I mean, I spent time in Nebraska. That's where I went to high school and junior high and a little bit of college had. But Nebraska isn't all of that.

 

Dr. J  51:49

I can answer you. I can answer your very, very easily. And actually, it's it's, you know, my dad was a National Olympic weightlifting coach. So he was a weightlifter. And he was a strength coach for the Aggies. So it was mainly football, right. And he was always looking for I mean, he's he's more of a strength coach general. So he in Kansas, he got a position to be an all sports conditioning coach. So it was basically with his job. And so

 

Terry  52:17

yeah, and that's where you went to ended up going to high school as well.

 

Dr. J  52:20

That's what I ended up going to high school. And then I went to college and Kansas for the night that I started going to Europe to do semesters and programs there. So

 

Roy Barker  52:31

Alright, well, I guess I don't have to be. Alright, well tell everybody where they can reach out, get a hold of the book, your website where they can reach out and contact you to

 

Terry  52:44

podcast as well. Excuse me.

 

Dr. J  52:48

But the podcast the podcast is interesting, culturally. So it's called Language and Culture with Dr. J. And it's in five languages. Mainly it most of the episodes are in English, but it's also in French and Spanish, and German and Hungarian. So there are a few episodes in those as well. But everything's always I always either do a translation in English or i or i do an entire episode then also in English. So so all the episodes are available in English. And that's available on Spotify and Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, or on the website cultureum.com. No, I can't even see I have to see it in front of me like c u l t u r e u m .com. There you go. And right, so that's the that's the podcast and then there's the books. And you know, we're not known authors. So by the way the by kids right as well. So cultureum.com sorry, Quadylle. It's also because quad so it's the four of us. So it's me the free kids. That's why the name but they have their little books. My daughter just published a book called Luna's Little Animals Say I Love You. And she read it through COVID and drew these little animal figures in love animal couples in love. And my son has a book out that's called The Piggy Bank And The Gold coin and it's it's a great book for dads talk about family. So the little one of course, had to write a book because her her siblings, I did an interview with her and I asked her sort of why'd you write a book and she said well, because my brother and sister that it can be left out. What do you mean? and hers is called Magical Easter Eggs and it's all about a family being down on their luck and then having a little bit of Easter magic. Help them out. So I'm so because we're not known authors, the best thing to do if you want to buy or Books is to get on our Instagram page because there the books are all linked to, to Amazon. So it's the easiest way to find us. And that's at quadrilles. So Quadylle. The books are also linked on the call today on CULTUREUM.com website as well. So that's the best way to find us. Okay,

 

Roy Barker  55:29

yeah, we'll include all those in the show notes. for everybody to follow that. All right. Well, thanks again for your time. We appreciate it's been a great talk. And that's gonna do it for another episode of AGEUcational of course, I am Roy. I'm Terry. And we you can find us of course, at www.ageucation.com. We're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify, we're not a one that you listen to, if you'll reach out, I'd be glad to get it added to make your listing easier. Use me, we're also on all the major podcast platforms, excuse me on all the major social media platforms, we probably tend to hang it on Instagram more than others. We'd love to interact with you there as well. A video of this interview will go live when the episode goes live. So check out our YouTube channel, as well as some of our past guests. Until next time,

 

Terry  56:22

I'll see you in a second I'm thought of something. Okay, what about What about her? What our wrap up question?

 

Roy Barker  56:30

Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. That's fine. So what is a tool or a habit that you use during your daily life? That adds value? It could be professional or personal, just something that you feel very strongly about? And

 

Dr. J  56:48

what what what direction? Are you? Are you looking?

 

Roy Barker  56:52

Sometimes it's like maybe journaling or exercise or meditation, like somebody has a cool meditation app, just you know, anything like that.

 

Dr. J  57:01

Okay. So you asked me how at the very beginning, the very first question you asked was, how did I start doing this. And so I don't know if you read anything in my bio, but I had cancer about six years ago, and five, five and a half years ago, and I lost my voice in the process of treatments, and etc. And that's that's kind of how it all started. That's how it all started with the podcasts and the books just kind of, you know, wanting to have my voice be heard. And with that, one of the things that I that I learned to do was and i think that's that's also really important. I was kind of divided, you know, I was always divided my job, my kids, my husband, my parents, the house that we had a dog then as well, and just kind of learning to take a little bit of time for myself and allowing myself to have some of that attention, be it for my podcast or for my books. And in order to get that energy. One of the things that I'm really big on is exercise, okay, I really try to exercise every single day, if I know I'm going to have a really, really busy day, I actually try to do 10 minutes before my day starts. Just to feel like I got my body moving. And then I also tried to practice Sophrology. I don't know if you It's Sophrology is a kind of meditation and relaxation technique. And basically, and I'm being very sort of basic, very sort of beno here, my description, but basically, we take each body part and think visualize each body parts and try to see it, try to let it relax, try to sort of fill it with positivity, and then ground yourself at your feet.

 

Roy Barker  58:55

Okay, interesting. Check that out.

 

Dr. J  58:58

Yeah, Sophrology and Dr. Qi Sao who, who started it, and it kind of combines a lot of different techniques. Okay, it just kind of works for me.

 

Roy Barker  59:12

Check that out. Yeah. Yeah, we're always looking for other things to kind of help us wind down and relax. So that sounds great. All right. Well, thanks a lot. We appreciate it again. And I guess we've done the wrap up. So we'll just say our goodbyes and we look forward to seeing you later in the year. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thank you all for listening to

www.cultureum.com

Instagram page @quadylle

www.AGEUcational.com

Dementia Sufferers Captured In Amazing Photos With Their Devoted Dogs Featuring Carmen Davailus

This is such a great program celebrating those with dementia and their families with photos. These photos are made even more special because they are with the dementia sufferer's dog. Even with dementia the dog usually puts a big smile on their owns face and a little spark in their eyes. It's also a life-living keepsake for their families and loved ones.

About Carmen

Carmen Davailus is a consultant and photographer inspiring audiences around the world with humor and her compassionate way of telling stories with images. During her 40-year nursing career, she worked with thousands of people seeking meaning and connection during challenging times and continues to do so with her camera.  

She is an entrepreneur with two businesses, Carmen's Legacy Productions and Doggies for Dementia. She is an international speaker inspiring audiences using photography and story-telling and is an award-winning author of Just See Me-Sacred Stories from the Other Side of Dementia.

Carmen is also an Alzheimer's/Dementia Advocate and founder of Doggies for Dementia Foundation, a 501c3 nonprofit corporation using photography to capture family memories and raise awareness for Alzheimer’s Disease and related Dementia.  Doggies for Dementia has been featured on both NBC and ABC.

www.doggiesfordementia.org

www.AGEUcational.com

About Doggies For Dementia

Doggies for Dementia Foundation is a non-profit that's primary focus is to drive awareness towards dementia. They uniquely do this by capturing candid photos of those affected by dementia surrounded by their loved ones and, of course, their family pet.

Our programs include gifted photography sessions for those impacted by dementia, which typically includes professional matted prints and a video slideshow. Not to worry about the expressions of your loved one or the behavior of your four-legged friend, photo sessions are fun and compassionate in a comfortable and understanding environment with people who are well-versed and knowledgeable regarding dementia.

We also have Portrait Day providing photography sessions and images for those residing long term care (LTC) or in adult care programs. These are shorter sessions, but unsurpassed in beauty and compassion. Dogs may or may not be included in these sessions.

Doggies for Dementia strives to raise awareness in order to reduce stigma, isolation and loneliness. Experts Dig in with Doggies for Dementia is a playlist on our YouTube channel (Doggies for Dementia Foundation). This is where we have candid conversations with experts including family members and professionals.

Carmen Davailus, our founder is a frequent guest at conferences and workshops sharing what families want us to know about living with dementia.

We do all we do with donations and sponsorships, so we count on those who love us to help us help others.

www.doggiesfordementia.org

www.AGEUcational.com

Full Transcript Below

Dementia Sufferers Captured In Amazing Photos With Their Devoted Dogs Featuring Carmen Davailus

Sun, 8/22 11:43AM • 1:01:15

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

dementia, people, dogs, families, Alzheimer, stories, thought, carmen, doggies, care, life, pandemic, happen, world, piece, Instagram, community, pictures, talk, feel

SPEAKERS

Terry, Carmen, Roy Barker

 

Roy Barker  00:00

Hello, and welcome to another episode of AGEUcational This is Roy, this is Terry. So we are chronicling our journey through the aging process, hopefully trying to make some substantial changes now. So we can have a better life. As we, as we do, as you know, we talked about not wanting to outlive our wellness, for sure we want to have a good consistent life with being within our, within our mind, being able to think and also being able to move, you know nothing worse than having to have a serious illness and not being able to get out and do the things that you like to do. So anyway, we're talking a little bit about that. We also talk about things that our parents are bumping up into how we've solved them new things that we figured out, try to bring a little bit of information so you don't have to reinvent the wheel, you know when it's time for you. And another thing is just to let you know that other people are going through this too, so there's always a place to reach out for help. But we also have guests on from time to time and today is no different. And I'm gonna let Terry introduce Carmen.

 

Terry  00:23

Carmen Davailus is is a consultant and photographer inspiring audiences around the world with humor and her compassionate way of telling stories with images. During her 40 year nursing career she worked with 1000s of people seeking meaning and connection during challenging times and continues to do so with her camera. She is an entrepreneur with two businesses, Carmen's Legacy Productions and Doggies for Dementia. She is an international speaker inspiring audiences using photography and storytelling, and is an award-winning author of just see me sacred stories from the other side of dementia. Carmen is also an Alzheimer's dementia advocate, and founder of Doggies for Dementia Foundation, a 501C3 nonprofit corporation, using photography to capture family memories and raise awareness for Alzheimer's disease and related dementia. Doggies for Dementia has been featured on both NBC and ABC. Carmen, welcome to the show. We've been waiting for a long time. Thank you. Thank you. I listened to that. I'm like, wow, 40 years. Yeah. People are always like, Oh, my gosh, what was she talking about? Yeah, it was you? Yes. Yeah.

 

Carmen  02:26

Yeah, 42. Now, tell us a little bit so much. I just have to say it is such a pleasure to be here. Because I know we connected on Instagram. And since then other social media, and I love what you're doing. And it's a treat. It's a treat to be here.

 

Roy Barker  02:44

Well, thanks, now. And that's what really attracted us to you was the you know, we love dogs, we've got a couple. And then the dementia aspect, you know, that's close to Terry's heart, because she lost her dad to that. But also, it's so prevalent now. And it's something that we don't want to think about. We don't really want to deal with it. But unfortunately, sometimes we have to. And so anyway, that and then I think the you know, listening to the intro talking about the pictures, because, you know, that's something else that we try to advocate for is documentation of people's lives. Unfortunately, when people are gone, we realize how not many pictures, how little pictures we have and how much documentation writing what they did for a living and who their parents were what they like, you know, just there's so much about it. Yeah. So anyway, what tell us a little bit from you know, how did you get here from nursing to, you know, doggies for dementia and taking pictures?

 

Carmen  03:42

Sure. Yeah. I so yeah, a lot of time as a nurse and a nurse practitioner even so I, the last decade or so we've been more than that was primarily elderly, so 65 and older. Elderly, older,

 

Terry  04:02

older every time right? Yeah.

 

Carmen  04:03

And I born more of an I did house calls and in some in long term care communities. And not everyone in long term care committee has dementia, of course, but I several of my clients did. And then I started to see more and more and I realized the families just had really unique challenges. And I really wasn't ready to meet that so I needed to learn it. And so we're talking even 10 or 15 years ago, we've come a long way since then, and early diagnosis and such. But it got to then I I worked with a geriatric psychiatrist, dementia, primarily and then neurology, and it was just, I just kept thinking there's got to be more, there's got to be more we can do and I was quite was I worked at Satan, the very last part of my career and they said, Look, if you need 45 minutes for a visit You need to help him out and take it. Just block yourself, which was amazing, right in today's healthcare just really unique and special. And, and I did that when I needed to. And I just felt like, wow, there's just so much so much in stories. And I thought if the world knew about what it was like for them their triumphs and their challenges, we would there would be such less pettiness in the world. Yeah. And I didn't think most people knew because I thought I'm in this world, and I didn't know a lot about it, how does anybody who's not in involved in it know? And so I thought, you know, I'm going to tell these stories. And I, I left to write a book, which I followed 13 families for about two and a half years. And, and I thought, I can't do that without photos. And it was a hobbyist. I always had my camera with me. And it's funny, because I thought, What do I want to do if I ever didn't do this, but what I do, and my camera is right around my neck, you know, I think why did I not think of it? That's my great joy camera. And what I realized is that the photos and I started putting on social media with the families. Yeah, everybody knew. And our mission was to raise awareness and to teach people with this through the stories and to for their legacy. And the ones with dogs always got the most attention. So people would stop and read the stories and learn because they were interested, oh my gosh, get the dog. What's that story about it? When it was people? It's like that, oh, and then that then I thought, Well, why don't we then use that and meet the people where they're at, and include dogs, which are the most fun sessions most of the time anyway, because it's candid, and loving and joyful, or whatever it might be, whatever the dog is doing, and the interaction is natural. And that's how dogs for dementia came about. That is a good four or five years there, you know, and, and things.

 

Roy Barker  07:01

Now, that's cool, because that's a little bit why we started the show, is because the not knowing what you don't know, until you're in the throes of usually a crisis. And that's not, you know, that's it's hard to gather all the information that we have, it's just easier to make poor decisions. And so anyway, I think that's, that's a great mission, because we you know, we want to, that's, again, talking about, you know, somebody has been through this before, if we can share that it may save people some time, we still advocate do your own research. But another thing is start the conversation early. And then if you never have to input anything into action, then you can consider yourself one of the lucky ones. But you know, there's so much there's so many conversations to have wrapped around growing old, not just the dementia part.

 

Carmen  07:52

Yes, yeah. And I think the world is a very lonely place when we feel like we're the only ones going through something. Yeah. And that was one of the common threads and all the family stories and in interviews was the isolation and loneliness. And they felt because people didn't understand or know that well, what if we change that? Yeah. What if we, you know, and I really started to think about the days and is a, even a younger nurse. But it wasn't that long ago, breast cancer wasn't something you even said out loud, right? It was like, oh, female cancer, and you don't talk about it. And women struggle all by themselves. And that changed when people started sharing their stories and getting out there and said, Well, yeah, this can be really difficult. But this can also be really beautiful. And this is what we're going to talk about it has changed dramatically. And I hope I see that in my lifetime when it comes to Alzheimer's and other forms of dementia where the stigma and isolation piece of it isn't something families are going through on top of everything else. Oh, for sure. Um,

 

Terry  08:57

he can you share a couple of stories from the just see me?

 

Carmen  09:02

Sure, sure. So let me think Well, I can tell you one, duty is both my she was in that in the book, her family and they happen to be toward the end of my say, ad where patients of mine too, and her daughter, and she's like, I don't know what to do. And I'm not sure what to do that she was just feeling so lost. And she was doing her best to care for her, both of her parents and to herself and and failing at her taking care of herself completely and getting sicker and sicker. And when I left, I'm like, What would you like to be part of the book, you know? And she's Yes, I have so much to say about that. And so they were their story was in the book and they live in a very small town out in the country and her Judy's grandparents actually helped build this church that's in this very small community like one street and so we did her photo's there. And that's where she grew up her whole life. And it was a big thing. And, and her daughter, Roxanne said to me, she was, you know, I guess you should know, I haven't told anybody that my mom has dementia. We go to church, and we're here, but nobody really knows that she has Alzheimer's. But when your book comes out, that's when they're gonna find out. That's the big reveal. And that's, you know, you

 

Terry  10:23

want you think that you're protecting them by not telling them, but I think people more people know than you think especially expose to them.

 

Carmen  10:33

Oh, yeah, nice. But to her daughter needed that support and, and she just wasn't sure how people were going to react to what was going to happen. And there was a great deal of fear there. And so when it came for the dogs for dementia, she said, You know, my niece has this dog, and so on with the under by Molly and I, and I got out, it's a puppy, a puppy who was very calm. And it was just as soon as they give you they're like giving each other this side looks, you know, and like, I don't know what you're doing here. And I don't know what you're doing here. And it was, it was really sweet. And they loved carrying on their mother's legacy, and the sister and grandmother in the stories and that she was honored in a really beautiful way. That was a real treat for her family.

 

Terry  11:22

And how did the community react? I mean, did they respond? Yeah, yeah, differently than she expected? Or I guess you can't really expect, you know, yeah,

 

Carmen  11:32

I you know, and she learned to ask for help that she needed and that that was okay. Because I think she felt like people weren't going to understand why she needed the help. And well, what's wrong with you? Why can't you take care of your two teenage kids and your father and be a wife and run the ranch and take care of your mother to you know, well, that's a lot anyway.

 

Terry  11:54

And then you add Alzheimers, so his community has rallied and her family supports the Oh, I can imagine especially with with her her mother growing up there her grandmother growing up, it was that way, grandmother mother,

 

Carmen  12:09

if you'd give us her mother? Yeah. Roxanne's mother's duty. And yeah, she was

 

Roy Barker  12:15

on it's kind of a because we don't understand it a lot. You know, one, one note I just jotted down was that sometimes we don't want to see what can happen to us. And so once people find out, their friend has it, sometimes they can actually pull away for two reasons. I think number one, because you don't know how to act instead of just acting like you always have, we think we got to say the right thing or do this thing. But really just that love and being close is really what they need. And then also, sometimes we don't want to see our future. And so it scares people that it's like, poof, you know, I can't be around it. Because it frightens me.

 

Carmen  12:55

Yeah, the most moving story that had to do with that was David and Joan. And I had seen him a few times in the office too, but I didn't know them well, and I had gone to their house to do this interview and join me then David is, was the journalist and lost his ability to speak who we thought he could understand pretty well, but he couldn't express himself or write and which just had to be terrible for someone who's a journalist, you know, and, and his wife, and they're just both brilliant. And she answers the door, and I've got my stuff, you know, and I'm excited about for the book. And she goes, I know, you think you're going to write another fluff piece here, but I'm going to tell you, I'm going to be real about how this is. And she really kind of let me have it and undo that. And she, she has, so you're gonna leave now. And I'm like, No, I'm really here for the truth. Let's talk about this. And she was really one of the first ones that was brutally honest about the impact of the people as she's talked about, who said, Well, I want to remember him the way he was. So I'm not going to, or I'm not sure what to say I'm afraid of saying the wrong thing. So I'm not going to come over and their friends just just physically moved away. You know, and, and it was so painful for both of them who had been very social and active in their community. And she described it in such a way that in fact, their story is the one most people will contact me about that. And, you know, of course, if I followed up and it all came out, you know, she's like, I can't believe you actually came in after that conversation on the porch like that. That's really what we wanted to have, you know, and, and now, I just love them so and, and, and I, you know, I appreciate it, that the candor and it was so wrong, their pain and and he wasn't able to express himself, but you could see it in his face. Yeah. How would that be? Yeah. Oh, I

 

Terry  14:56

love that story. It's making me tear up just thinking about it.

 

Carmen  14:59

Yeah. He could play harmonica. So his dog Luna when he played harmonica, Luna would how long or so they were one of the first with a dog in the image because Luna just showed up. Ben was singing along and I thought well, like, interesting. Yeah, so there are no, you know, there's no coincidences, that was just

 

Roy Barker  15:21

one again, it's, we feel the way we feel. And so again, letting other people know that it's okay, you have to work through this. It's not always going to be, you know, that happy story that we would love it to be. But again, here are some things that maybe you can do to navigate that situation. So I think those are probably as helpful to people that are, you know, starting the dementia journey than anything.

 

Carmen  15:48

Yeah. Yeah, it is hard. It's hard stuff, there's more resources, but it just doesn't make it that it's going to be an easy journey. And so it just means

 

Terry  15:59

there's more noise. I mean, there's so much more.

 

Roy Barker  16:04

But the cool thing we've noticed on Instagram, and we've actually had a cup, we've got had one on and I think we've got one coming up, but caregivers, and this one, the one we talked to happened to be a grandchild, who is caring for grandma. And what really struck us about her was one where she had a treadmill in the room. And then you could see grandmother over kind of to the right of the picture, sitting in a chair with her bowl of cereal. And she was just saying, you know, trying to talk about keeping your days normal, and you know how to work through it. So she had figured out, she could sit Graham over there and eat her cereal while she was doing her walking or running. And so, you know, those are, I think that's another great thing is people are starting to put more of these out on social media for the public to see that you know what, it may not be the same as normal, but it's going to be a new normal, and you can figure out ways to overcome some of these hurdles that we're going to run.

 

Terry  17:06

You don't know where the help could come from. I mean, you could get help from that just sharing your story and being accountable. And you just never know who is going to be touched by which part of your story. That's right. And that's what I love about doggies for dementia. And oh my gosh.

 

Carmen  17:25

Thank you. I'm a dog lover too. So it's like a natural and people are thinking that my dog Sparky is going to be the one in their pictures and like, wow, I'm not the best mom. A dog Mommy, you know?

 

Terry  17:41

Well, like energy, that same as ours. And I have to tell you, I have been I mean, ever since I can remember we always had dogs growing up. And I, I always went and found went through the want wanted Circle Circle them went and bought a puppy, you know, I would go and buy a little puppy and bring it home and say that it followed me in the park. There's no way I could leave it. It was raining. I couldn't do it. So I would always find a reason to go and get another dog. I could never have too many. You know, some of them. We had to, you know, rehome two other children who didn't have dogs. That's how my mom would explain it. After she yelled at me for bringing another one. But yeah, and dad and I have to tell you dad would be Oh, you shouldn't be doing that. You know, just behind mom going? Yes, yes, yes. And then Who's Who? laughs whose lap is the dog in every time I come home, I came home, you know, that's exactly how it was. And he would have a dog in his lap and he would be holding the bone for him to chew on in his lap. You know? Yeah,

 

Carmen  18:50

partner. But I wonder sometimes if dogs don't sense, like, who needs the most today? Most love today? And that's where they're going. And they're just all over that. And I think you're right. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  19:01

Well, my stepfather is starting to suffer from dementia. And it's funny because you know, you're from Texas, too. So you remember the February freeze out? You know, we were we were without power for about a week. And so luckily, we stayed at my mom and stepdads and they never lost power. So we were very lucky. But we had the two dogs and you know, we were concerned about they're not little dogs are big dogs. And they're very personal. They want to get in your space and jump on you and love you and all that, which is cool for us. But you know, we were worried about how they were going to interact. And he, I don't I don't know that he'd ever had they had never had dogs that I can remember. But it was amazing because he was so fascinated by them that he couldn't hit. That's all he could focus on was do they get along? Do they eat too? You know, just all of these questions and then even four You know, maybe a month after that was over every time we would see them, he always asked how the dogs you know, and so we took them over there a couple times just so he could see them. But it was an interesting interaction and result of something that I didn't think it was gonna go that way.

 

Carmen  20:19

Yeah, I, people often ask, do do I supply the dogs? Do we supply the doctor? But no, that's families, it has to be a familiar dog of sensor, because you just don't know how it would go otherwise. So there's gotta be some familiarity. But the other piece of it even then you just don't know how it's gonna go, or what's going to be of interest. And that alone is intriguing. Because it's, it's, there are no expectations, which is a real blessing, by the way for the people with dementia as well. They don't have nobody's looking for them to do anything to how they are. Which, especially in earlier stages, there's some pressure there that people are watching me, or am I going to say the wrong thing or, and, and families might feel that way, when someone else is present, like or you know what's going to happen, which is probably the good thing that I have that experience and like it doesn't, nothing's gonna, nothing's gonna, hey, I get it. That's just how it is, this is your place to be you. And, and when you add a dog to that mix, it's just like, it's just this. It's it's like the perfect moments for me. And people will say, like, Do you always smile? And like, you know, it's like the cameras and mokdad I'm always smiling is just it for me.

 

Roy Barker  21:40

So did you notice? Did you notice any, any behaviors of the dogs or the people? Because I didn't know if the if the dog consents that the person is sick if the dog stays very close to them, and it's like always right with them? Or did? Did they maybe move away? Or did you notice any? Have you noticed anything about like that?

 

Carmen  22:02

No, not so much. I mean, obviously, we're setting it up, we let what happens happen, but we're setting it up in a location and I've got the lights but you know, continuous lights and no flashes. And we let everybody get used to the lights and me being there pretty soon they forget on there. Because then they're just, you know, playful and being what they are. You know, I've observed that at other times, but not not further shoots so much. There. It's just the it's, there's their interaction, which is unique to all of them. Yeah, I know, my dog did, I was sick. The beginning of the pandemic, I was diagnosed with cancer, and I am pretty sure my dogs knew before I even knew, and I thought they are so clingy. They just want me alone and like I'm tripping over them, like what the heck is going on? And I really think they sense something is not right.

 

Roy Barker  22:58

I have heard that before that. They, they can sense. There are some dogs that are very sensitive to some forms of cancer. And then also, it's not a dog. But as what cat I'm not a big cat person don't mean not that dislike I want to just more of a dog person or

 

Terry  23:14

just more independent. But there

 

Roy Barker  23:16

was a nursing home that had a cat. And this cat would go to the person who was dying and curl up with them. And so they they would usually give like a two to three days to a week notice that you know this person is going to pass. And then everybody the people who are healthy or got nervous every time they saw that cat coming down the hall, stopping in my room.

 

Carmen  23:45

Keep that cat away. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess it's a really good question. Because I'm thinking I, you know, we set up we know the dogs were familiar with everyone that we were able to do sessions with. But it did see that even puppies were really subdued and are not wild puppies around the person with dementia they were with there was like there was a connection there. Which is why I was talking about with Judy, they just kind of give each other side I like I don't know what this is about. But, you know, we're here. And some of the looks at each other. We're just like, identical to one another. I don't know mirroring or what, but

 

Roy Barker  24:24

that's the awesome thing about dogs, though is that, you know, I was thinking, again, leading up to this just been thinking a lot about, you know, the dogs are dogs, they never have a bad day. They're always they're always happy to see you. You know, no matter how you feel. They're always there. And and, you know, I guess it goes with that emotional support mechanism that a lot of people have animals for but how can you be upset or not feel good when you have this animal that just can't give you enough love? And it's

 

Terry  24:54

not so so unconditional?

 

24:56

Yeah.

 

Terry  24:57

I wanted to ask you Carmen. How are you? Health now.

 

Carmen  25:01

Oh, I'm fine. I'm fine. I had surgery and recovered and I'm good out. Thankfully, it was best of the worst. So yeah, during a pandemic of all. myself at the time, I'm like, oh, my goodness, and my dogs were just such good company. They for me during during that time, well all the time, but it's definitely during that time, I thought, I don't know what I would do if I didn't have my dogs on lockdown. And for other people I knew who lived alone during the lockdown. I thought oh, and I saw people getting dogs and they're good for you. Because it really means a lot. No.

 

Terry  25:45

Yeah. And then I was going to also ask you, you just pretty recently got a received a donation for doggies for dementia. The foundation, correct?

 

Carmen  25:57

Yeah, well, we have ongoing fundraisers here. And there, we scheels which is a large depart. tournaments are a sporting good store. I guess they're really huge in the Midwest, and now they're there in Dallas. Yeah. And I've never seen anything so huge in my life. And yeah, so we've got a wonderful donation from them, and some recognition and things which, which we, you know, we were thrilled about, so it's so cool.

 

Terry  26:25

Yes, that's great. And, you know, we,

 

Carmen  26:28

you know, the the the beauty of social media, you know, I know, there's a lot of bad people, but I personally, it has connected me to people all around the world even more than ever before. And we get donations and comments and, and just beautiful letters from people from everywhere, just from everywhere. And so small or big. Each one is like when we have our board meetings, and we go through it, you know, it's just really touches our hearts. So

 

Roy Barker  27:04

yeah, I was looking in your background, you've got some pictures I see. But also, it looks like a painting, do you as well,

 

Carmen  27:11

I don't know. See, this is Yeah, I met a gal on Instagram. And it's art for all with the four and she, it was raising money for the walk, that she doesn't honor her grandmother who had Alzheimer's. And during the lockdown, and all she has, I think a four or five year old son. He might be a little older, but he around that age. And she's like, what do we do? You know, they're they're in board. And she had never painted before. And they started painting things. And then she sells them on Instagram for like $25 these hand painted pieces that she and her son made to help raise money for her walk. And I saw the dog and I thought oh, well, I know where that. Yeah, yeah. So I met her and we did a little program. And yeah, she's just just one of those really beautiful things. Yeah. Well, so I don't

 

Roy Barker  28:09

know, I decided was surrounded by the photos. So I wasn't sure. Yeah. So what's next for doggies for dementia? I mean, where where are you hoping to grow? Take this? What's the future look like?

 

Carmen  28:21

Yeah, you know, the, the pandemic is hit us really hard. We really needed to so from going because our population is vulnerable. And to go and do photographs was out of the question. Well, especially in long term care communities, we can still go to people's homes, of course, and we do those. But for long term care of it even that was super careful. And so we kind of we looked at our mission is that it's about raising awareness. And we have a YouTube channel that we're doing programs and our blogs and things and so for us that we're anxious to get out and start telling stories again, and and meeting people and doing the photographs. And also as things open, we're looking to train other photographers around the country who'd like to be a part of this to be a part of the doggies for dementia group and to take that to their communities as well. It's as much as I love to travel. I can't be everywhere. Yeah, and I think that is our next big thing is to start adding some volunteer photographers. I'm going to begin in Texas, we're going to be getting close and you know and grow slowly as we do but

 

Terry  29:40

the end that's Do you already have have photographers and other states as well or is it just in Texas for now?

 

Carmen  29:48

Yeah, as you know, we are as far as a nonprofit is concerned. I did the paperwork for this in March of 2020. So

 

Terry  29:57

okay, yeah. not rushing in. Oh,

 

Carmen  30:01

yeah, that not it was like three weeks or two weeks before the lockdown? No, it's uh, we've been working on it filed the papers, and then the lockdown things happened. And so a lot of our plans and I had done shoots before that it was part dogs for tonight we were an official, nonprofit, although I did it under my for profit business that always free for families as it is now. It's always free for families. And I was funding it, but we just officially made it a nonprofit, and then the lockdown, and you know, we want to protect our people, and we want people to be safe. And so yeah, so even if we have some people who are interested, but we've got to have practice sessions and people right out there. Yeah. And I have, I think three different communities that are all signed up and ready for September October sessions, especially for Alzheimer's awareness, which I'm thrilled about, yes. And then we have the increasing numbers. So I don't think those are going to happen,

 

Roy Barker  31:10

you know, that's been a double edged sword for, I think, for seniors, all seniors, and then those with dementia is that, you know, they are vulnerable, we don't want to, you know, bring the outside germs into them or virus or however, but again, that loneliness is so devastating for them as well that, you know, it's really does my heart good to see these families that have found creative ways to, you know, be outside the window and go see their, their loved ones. And so we really need to think outside the box, you know, if this is going to get bad, again, how we can continue to have some kind of a human content, maybe not contact, but human interaction through a glass or whatever. And it's a great thing about, you know, not if the pandemic had to happen, now's an awesome time because we have technology. So at least if the the seniors can make the can FaceTime work, that's great. Or, you know, staff can help them do the FaceTime, we can at least see people and have a little bit of interaction, I saw one community that they had gone out and bought a bunch of orchestra music holder stands, and then a bunch of iPads. And so they would take, they'd all get it all set up and then take that and set it by the you know, senior where they could interact with their family. So a lot of creative ways to do that.

 

Carmen  32:35

Yeah, I it is brought up some huge crisis, actually, and really made a stop and look, how do these are what we say we value, and how do we carry through and our values and how we care for our senior citizens and the United States. And it's really across the world that I'll talk about what I know. And looking at, do we primarily focus on the physical health only and the protection and isolation and this when we saw people, and I can tell you like Carol, there are pictures behind these vibrant, she's, you know, 90 something and we celebrate her birthday and the isolation, just just cause such a decline that unbelievable is and quickly. And so we're recognizing that, hey, maybe we need to think about emotional health do which we always said we valued, but then you What do we do? And no do because this was a new video, who thought we would have a pandemic and all of these things. And so you know, not looking at blaming, it's like, okay, now we got to really think and you're right about that. Now we got to really think about where our values how are we going to manage this? And how do we take care of people in a holistic way that their emotional needs and family needs? and physical safety? Yeah, where's that going to be? And who is going to determine that?

 

Roy Barker  34:03

Yeah, yeah, cuz we Who would have ever thought it would have gone, you know, because in March of 2020, I think everybody fully expected that, you know, it's gonna be bad through the summer, but then by, you know, the fall, it was gonna be better. But then, you know, as we started getting through April, and may, then people realize, oh, not gonna be over that. And then now we've got this new variant that's out there. So it's like, well, how, you know, and I don't know, everywhere, but like, our numbers here in DFW are skyrocketing. And they expected the younger kids to actually surpass the peaks that we had, you know, at the fall of last year. So anyway, you know, it's like, then how many more variants are going to come along? And so I guess at some point, we have to say, maybe this is the new normal, even though we don't like it and wouldn't want it. So we got to figure out those ways to, you know, take care of everybody.

 

Carmen  34:55

Yeah, and you know, we're a society that has really never, never had to face Any kind of pandemic plague anything. So the our thought is, well, typically you get sick, you take a pill, and then you're back to normal and everything's back to normal. But it's different than that. And it's gonna require a whole shift in mindset and like, Okay, this is what needs to happen. And this is and then readjust. And it I know families are many families are very involved in movements to change what's considered who's considered primary caregivers who can for especially for long term cares, because many didn't see their families for their loved one for like six months. Yeah, yeah. And they were watching through the window. And literally not not to be I don't want to go on to the negative side here. But some only saw their loved one, they said, we're given a choice. You can see them now. Or they're declining. You can see them, like shortly before their death. And I mean, like, shortly before, like hours, they had to make a choice.

 

Terry  36:03

Yeah. And I do both. Because twice. And do you remember, I think, I think her name was married Daniel, where she, her husband was in a facility and she ended up a, you know, a professional, many very educated, ended up getting a job in the kitchen of the home facility. So she could visit her husband in.

 

Carmen  36:28

Yeah. And she formed a group it was a caregivers for compromised, I believe, yes, family. Yeah. And then in every state, it was a one group. And then there were so many people, each state has their own. And I went to the Texas group, one to hear about it and to record their stories. That's our mission to like, let me hear your story. So I kept a distance, we're at the courthouse and I walked away to change the person because I did not know what it was like for some of the families in because it was such a it's such an unknown how to handle it. Do the local communities, do they listen to your corporate? Do they listen to CDC? Is it the state guidelines? Or is it the federal guidelines? How are they supposed to? How are they and so you might want to go down the street and they have different roles than the way um, you know, so it's kind of like, okay, when we know better, we'll do better. And families are really taking really some strong action to and she's, and she's quite, she's quite vocal, by the way,

 

Terry  37:32

it's at the forefront. She certainly is. I am wasting all of her. I mean, not enjoy, but I mean, I enjoyed learning about everything that she's she's trying to lobby for, and all the changes she's trying to make. I

 

Carmen  37:44

think solidly. Yeah, they really inspiration. Yes, I read the stories. I listen, I'm like, I know.

 

Roy Barker  37:52

Yeah, I meant to ask you before we started, if it would be okay to ask you this question. But since we're already in the you choose not to respond. I definitely understand that. But, you know, Terry did some research on this new Alzheimer's? I do. And some stuff that's come out since then. not been not been supportive. Let's put it that way. Anyway, I just thought, you know, since you were a nurse practitioner, and you've got the medical lab to look at this. And do Would you mind sharing your opinion with us?

 

Carmen  38:34

Sure. I don't, I will say I, I have a good friend who has early onset Alzheimer's. And he and his dog, buddy were part of our photo, and he lives in New Jersey and Jeff barkoff, and he's been an Alzheimer's Association. One of their advocates and things and when I visited he, his wife and and he so it's been, he's been in the trial program. So I want to say it's been almost almost two years than I was there so well before this time. And the trials and for them, he's, I think 5657 at the time, and his wife is a little younger, and she's, you know, actively working, and their lifestyle changed dramatically. And the the hope that was put into the trial and the drug that it would make a difference was beyond words and what it meant. And so sometimes, you know, they're wondering like, I don't know if it's helping, maybe it is we don't know what would happen if it wasn't you know, if he wasn't taking but he continued on the trials and and so knowing that and then watching and and knowing when they stop the drug trials, what that meant to them, and then continue to what I know about it scientifically is very little, very little to say. We kind of hung up my white coat and you know, I I read things and see I don't really have a strong opinion about that. But what I do know is the emotions that and the people's lives that are riding on this, this dog as well as some others, but this one in particular. And when I read that this has changed, or that has changed, I'm just thinking about what is that like sitting at the table or drinking coffee with them? You know, hearing this?

 

Roy Barker  40:25

Thank you right there, I've always felt like that was one of the big effort was to push it through was not. And not that we're not that it would or wouldn't work necessarily, there was a hope that it would work. And bringing hope to people is sometimes, you know, that's a huge impact. And I don't know, it's like everything else, if you have this positive aspect of even when you're ill, maybe you don't get cured, but maybe you live a better life of what you have. And so I think that's a that is one aspect of this, that you really can't put dollar sign on. But then the other part of that is the false hope, you know, are we giving people false hope? And I don't know, it was just bizarre, the way you know what little we're about it, and we haven't really followed up the last month or so. But with the committee, I think most of the committee that was involved that said, No, we don't want it, you know, they've all resigned and just it is it was kind of an odd situation to have so much turmoil in a regulatory agency.

 

Terry  41:27

Yeah, about, right, a lot of light. Yeah. A little light into the FDA and their processes and procedures, and everybody kind of gears it toward whichever outcome that they're hoping for. And maybe it's run, you know, a big pharma thing. So it's like, oh, so,

 

Carmen  41:46

but as it's, it's so confusing, and I want to save and say, as a nurse practitioner, what I do know when I'm faced with famines ago, what can we do? We had medicines, we thought might slow it down, but not for everybody, right? And I'd say now they're going to how we're going to know that it helps if it's meant to slow it down and not make it better. Right? Because for some people, they might make it better, but not all, and I didn't want to say yes, it's gonna make it better, because I can't I can't even guarantee that at all. I can't even I don't that was like a unusual or unusual. And so I say like, this is the best we have. This is the best we have right now. We think it can help. It's worth a try. And if there's any bad, you know, if there's interact, if they don't do well with it, clearly we stop it. And then they say, well, in a year or two, how are we know if it sometimes if we stop that they get worse again, but we don't know who that's going to happen to? It's horribly cruel. It's horribly cruel. And they're like, well, do I stop it and let nature take its course? Are they going to get worse right away? Like, maybe? So that's the reality of what we do have?

 

Terry  42:56

Yeah. Right. And I

 

Carmen  42:59

go ahead. No, I was gonna say that is what we do know is that when I'm hearing this other things, and like, that's not that much different than what we already do know. And we're telling people, we really hope it helps, but we don't know.

 

Terry  43:11

Yeah, we're not sure.

 

Carmen  43:12

Yeah, there's no sorry, God. It's all we've got. And that's all they have to look forward to. It's like, if I don't have, if I take it now and it helps, then maybe I'll have a better, longer life with my family. And we're talking sometimes people in their 40s and 50s. Here. Yeah, yeah. Where it seems like yeah, I'm willing to take the chance. I'll take the chance. And if it doesn't work well, that I at least

 

Terry  43:35

I try. You don't have any other you just don't have any other options. My my dad, have we lost him in 2014. And he's he suffered from it. It was dementia, it picks disease, dementia. So he was on Aricept for many years. And it seemed to help for a while. But I if he were around now I has his daughter would say whatever it takes, there is no other option. I mean, there's nothing else. And if he takes it, maybe it helps them. Maybe it speeds up the process, whatever. If he doesn't, then definitely nothing's going to happen. I mean, he's going to continue to progress with this disease, and he's going to pass away without any other option available to him. So I would be grasping at straws, you know, wanting to to him to do whatever necessary to keep them around cell phone.

 

Carmen  44:35

Yeah. And I think again, because we are a society if we take a pill and it makes it better. Yes. And this is not the case with dementia yet. We don't have that. I don't think that's a common knowledge for the general public unless you've experienced it. What it's like to have nothing, no hope at all until there's a little bit of hope. And,

 

Roy Barker  44:55

and I think a message maybe to younger people is to clean up Clean up your lifestyle make some changes. Not Not that, you know, I don't know, there's, I think I'm not sure if they've ever really come down on, you know, hereditary versus lifestyle, but I do know that there are a lot of things that we can control that, you know, there's some research I've done years ago was that a lot of this Alzheimer's became more prevalent after the low fat diet craze of the 70s. And that, you know, maybe the fat, I've read some research and actually went and heard a presentation about, you know, coconut oil and the use of that trying to, you know, we've cut out so much of the fat that that's one thing that supposedly, I guess attacks your brain. Yeah,

 

Terry  45:47

that's the problem, right? fat that you need that omega sixes and threes, and nines, and all of that. So if we can get the younger people to start eating, you know, more organically and for brain health, gut health, all of that, instead of eating processed everything and moving and exercising some

 

Carmen  46:06

Yeah. So there's, there's a psychologist, I've had a few interviews with on our program, who works with people with mild cognitive impairment quite a bit and, and just for people who are aging, and he's just like, well, healthy body healthy mind to start with, right. And so the Yes, the moving the socialization, you know, healthy eating, it's the whole again, that whole all of allistic that, because what happens in the body happens in the brain, and vice versa. And so it was kind of like, okay, that at least can it can help you can help our bodies resist

 

Roy Barker  46:49

disease, sleep, sleep is important as well, I think that Terry did turn up a study a couple of weeks ago about the sleep deprived, and you know what, how that raises our chances.

 

Carmen  47:04

And that, you know, and so many people, and probably some of your listeners are in that sandwich generation and similar to to Roxanne I was talking about caring for their children and their parents and themselves. Yeah, and the ones that usually get left out are themselves.

 

Roy Barker  47:20

Yep. Again, sure we'll do another message for the caregivers is that is so important for them. Because there used to be, there was a study one time that said, For those that are, you know, some of the worst dementia patients, their caregivers will die 80% of the time before the actual dementia patient will die, or their loved one. So that gets back to self care. And you know, we there are great respite programs, there are people that are willing to help but have to know what's out there. And you have to be you have to understand if you're not here, who is going to take care of your loved one. So that should be some motivation to you know, really focus on self care, where you can take the best care of your loved one as possible.

 

Carmen  48:05

Yeah. And it's a challenging thing. And for a lot of people, it's learning self care a new Yes. I never really thought about it. especially women, they're like, I like, yeah, this is really hard. And it's like, yeah, like how do you be a daughter to your mother, when you really are more of a mother? You do you have to be more motherly? And is that 24? Seven? And it's, it's it's a constant thing and a while you're caring for your children and yourself.

 

Terry  48:38

Yeah. And it's not so mean someone that's selfish to take care of yourself. You have to reframe yourself think okay, yeah. And the guilt part of it. I mean, it's not that we're trying to guilt you and but whatever works. I mean, if you need to be guilted into it, take care of yourself.

 

Carmen  48:57

Yeah, and I know it's as I traveled with a friend of mine who spoke and he early onset Alzheimer's is younger than me. And when we would, we had like two or three places in a row. So I was there. And I was, like, caring for him. But he did really well. But there were times he wasn't. And I remember one afternoon, I was just like, you know what, I'm going to kick myself for ever saying to people, you got to take your carry yourself even take five minutes, because I didn't even have five minutes to take care at that. It was like there was something happening. Like if I were to take a shower, I heard like, what happened to the coffee? And you know, like, well, you should about me, the kind of coffee maker and used to and I had just done that. And that was it. You know, and it just is and then the next day, it's like, I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah. Oh, yeah, buddy. I got it.

 

49:51

Oh, there it is. There it is. There it is. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  49:57

Well, thanks for that digression. I know You know, it's just good to get get your opinion as well. You know, since you're out there working with a lot of people with dementia in their family, so thank you for digressing with us and giving us your opinions there. All right, well, a couple things. One is a tool or a habit. What is something that you do every day that you feel adds a lot of value to your life?

 

Carmen  50:23

Well, I know it seems kind of funny because it's what I do for a living too. But for me to go out in nature and photograph, just walk see the flowers, I get down on the ground, I look at all different angles to me, I can lose hours, and it doesn't even seem like it. And just kind of one with the bees and never been stung. I've been surrounded. And is that to me? It's just, yeah, the most peaceful thing. And my dogs Sparky, of course. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  50:54

Yeah. It's funny, because, you know, we moved out to a very unique place a year a few years ago now. And you know, Terry is not a Pioneer Woman. And I don't think she minds me saying that out loud. But it is amazing. Just the quality of life because you know, we she has a little herd of deer that she takes care of. And we've got a family of raccoons that come out at night and go to the feeder and try to eat corn. Yeah. Do you know armadillos, all this stuff? And it's just amazing to be able to step out and just enjoy the world that is around us. For sure.

 

Terry  51:32

Deep breath just yelling and exhaling and the trees and not the snakes. Not still not fancy, though.

 

Carmen  51:41

Now that's where I draw the line on this. Yeah, I wear my boots. Oh,

 

Terry  51:47

yes, I am a little up girl. But it is it has made a huge difference. Just being out here. The stillness, the sounds, the smells, the I mean, just everything is just made a huge difference. Sounds wonderful. Oh, yeah. Come on. Come on. We're not that far. Yeah, we will be headed that way soon. Very soon. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  52:14

All right, Carmen, well, tell us a little bit about Doggies for Dementia. And then tell us also about the photography and you know, what you do, who you'd like to work with? How you can help? And of course, how they can reach out and get a hold of and also the foundation? Just tell us tell us a little bit about everything you got going on?

 

Carmen  52:31

Okay. That's a lot, right. I would just say, um, so definitely, for families that are impacted by dementia, the Doggies for Dementia program. It's a redo actually, for most it's two photo sessions, one with the dog and it that might be I mean, I take my time to make sure everybody's comfortable, and there's no hurry, no worry. And we go with it, how it goes. And and then I usually come back a week or two later and show those photos and we have a video slideshows. So I have a couple cameras going on, including the one I have in my hand and a video camera over my shoulder. Because I realized that people say the most amazing things, when I'm taking still pictures. I just haven't going out. And yeah, and that is often a real huge highlight for people to have, and especially as time goes on, and their loved ones no longer there to have their voice and the video and things and you know, there's never a charge for families. We Our goal is for our videos and our images to go viral. We want that we want the world to understand dementia and to hear their story and to honor their loved ones. And so that's, you know, the only piece of that, and we're very flexible. I have gone all over Texas, and I'm even going to make a Georgia and another month to do a shoot there. So it's really just kind of depends. And my husband and I were just like, let's go, let's just go and, and so I'm vaccinated, I always wear a mask, and we're quite careful. We keep our distance and knowing it's more difficult in communities, but it depends but certainly in people's homes we do can do that. So that's the doggies for dementia. We don't ask families even to donate or to we really want to honor their loved one in that way if they wish to. They can but there's really are there's really no expectation there. We're funded by donations and sponsorships of companies businesses that love the idea and want to help fund that and so we're always open to that. That's the piece for Doggies for Dementia and the nonprofit. I phone so let's say a family says we would love to do this with my my mom or my dad or whoever it might be but we really don't want that be really public. I do that and my for profit business, Carmen's Legacy Productions and their special pricing for families impacted by dementia. So they can still do it. And we don't we don't go public with it's it's our it's our thing and it's just as beautiful. It's just we're not. It's just not part of the social media.

 

Roy Barker  55:18

Okay. Okay. That's awesome.

 

Terry  55:20

And your website is

 

55:23

Doggies for Dementia.org Doggies for Dementia.org. And we're on Instagram and Facebook. And under Carmen Davailus is on LinkedIn. Twitter is Doggies for Dementia. I don't do a lot with Twitter. So I don't talk about that. Yeah. Yeah, we have a YouTube a video blog, we call it Experts Dig In With Doggies For dementia, we talk in fact, you guys need to be our guest to do we talk about people doing amazing things and to help families for for some information for family, family, caregivers, and, and others impacted by dementia. So all different walks of life, including families,

 

Terry  56:06

families, and you have I noticed behind you, you have one of your Well, you have a couple of books. Do you want one? Or do you want to hold them up? Sure. So just as

 

Carmen  56:18

Yeah, this is the one I say I left my nursing career for. I continue to heal on the you know, with the camera. And so this one has 13 different stories, unique stories. And you know, when I thought in like 30 families, I met them and hear a lot of the same and I didn't in what I realized and what how the name came about then was I'm sitting there in my living room with 13 piles of paper and the audio tapes. And I'm like, how do these? How are we connected other than dementia? Because I really didn't want it to be all about dementia. I wanted it to be about challenges and triumphs, and what are people doing and it just happened to be a dementia was that one common thread and, and then I realized, like there were 13 different spiritual needs. We have spiritual, basic spiritual needs that we have similar to our physical and emotional needs and spiritual needs. And each one had like a crisis of that spiritual need, that they work through to resolve. Interesting. Yeah. And that was my master's was in spirituality and health care and why it took me so long to see that as I'm sitting there, and I thought, Oh my gosh, this is like 123. All and that's how it came about and why I needed the sacred stories from the other side of dementia.

 

Terry  57:38

Yeah, that gives me goose bumps and it all it just always comes full circle, doesn't it?

 

Carmen  57:45

Right there. Yeah, yeah, it is. And in even, you know, up until the time I thought, I'm gonna write this book, I was in the clinic, I really thought I would retire until well beyond, you know, 5455 whatever I was then and in a family had come in and their story touched me so. And I thought somebody again, I thought somebody needs to tell these stories. And I got no, I need to write a book and suddenly like the idea, by the time I'm driving home from work, I had a plan in mind. And, you know, I better take a photography class better at least. I've never written a book, I don't know what made me think I could write a book or do any of that. It's a good thing. I didn't know all that went into that. Until I was just like, on this, I felt like the Blues Brothers. I'm on a mission from God. Just was like such an epiphany and which was not really in character for me.

 

Terry  58:45

Were you saying Heidi had he had

 

Carmen  58:48

it in my head, I feel driven like that. I just have to do this. And I don't know what it's going to take. But I know pieces are going to fall into place. And it's going to happen. And I and as I've transitioned, you know, through because it took a while I transition from one world of the clinical world to the other and there was a big blend in there. I don't know if I've ever been happier and what I'm doing every day. I'm so excited to get up and do

 

Roy Barker  59:20

another one of the many messages is that, you know, there's always things that we can do and sometimes we feel caught in our life. But you know, we can follow our heart follow our passion. And I think that's the biggest reward is just feeling happy and satisfied with what you get up and do. Oh my gosh, so lucky.

 

Carmen  59:40

Congratulations. I can't thank ya. I say it made a huge financial change in my life. Yeah, I think it extended my life quite especially quality. I hope quantity too because just it's just been Yeah, I just wake up excited.

 

Terry  59:59

That's great. Well, we thank you for sharing all of the photos sharing your stories here today but go on Carmen's Instagram Doggies for Dementia or Facebook or, or Twitter wherever you go, just go there so enlightening, and it's just so touching. Yes.

 

Roy Barker  1:00:19

Yeah. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to talk with us. It's been a pleasure. It's always My pleasure. Thank you. All right, well, that's gonna do it. for another episode of AGEUcational Of course, you can find us at www.AGEUcational.com we're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify, if we're not a one that you listen to reach out, be glad to add it to make it easier for you to listen to us every week. Also, we're on all the major social media platforms, we probably hang out on Instagram a little more than others. So reach out to us there. We'd love to interact with you. Also, a video of this interview will go up on YouTube when the episode goes live. So go over there and check. Check that out as well as some of our previous guests. Until next time, that's gonna do it for us. Take care of yourself and take care of your health.

www.doggiesfordementia.org

www.AGEUcational.com

This Awesome New Book Contains The Gripping Stories of 50 Retirees with Richard Haiduck

What plans do you have for your retirement? Some don't want to retire and some can't afford to. Some want to play golf, other travel. This book tells the story of 50 different retirees and what their story has been in retirement. Some have ended well and some have not. Some are happy stories and some could be happier. What will your retirement look like? Check these out.

About Richard

After an executive and mentoring career in life sciences, Richard Haiduck is not pursuing an active retirement.  His days are filled with mentoring social entrepreneurs, regular hiking and biking, reading, family time, and a recent relocation to Pacific Grove.  His most recent project was writing Shifting Gears; 50 Baby Boomers Share Their Meaningful Journeys in Retirement.”

www.richardhaiduck.com

www.AGEUcational.com

Full Transcript Below

This Awesome New Book Contains The Gripping Stories of 50 Retires with Richard Haiduck

Fri, 8/20 6:15PM • 47:35

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, stories, book, interview, life, couple, age, retirement, read, Richard, fun, retired, worked, turned, hear, climb, learning, brain, diplomat, career

SPEAKERS

Terry, Richard, Roy Barker

 

Roy Barker  00:06

Hello, and welcome to another episode of AGEUcational This is Roy, this is Terry. We are the podcast that brings you information on aging chronicling our journey and, you know things that we're bumping up against as well as our parents things that, you know we run into that may be odd or trying to put as much information out there about this process to help people out. And every now and then we do have guests on from time to time and professionals in their fields, authors, all kinds of people that can speak to different topics around aging, and today is no different. Terry, I'm gonna let you introduce Richard.

 

Terry  00:39

Yeah, after an executive and mentoring career in life sciences, Richard Haydock is not pursuing an active retirement. His days are filled with mentoring social entrepreneurs, regular hiking and biking, reading family time and a recent relocation to Pacific Grove.

 

His most recent project was writing Shifting Gears: 50 Baby Boomers Share Their Meaningful Journeys in Retirement at age seven, he was sure he wanted to be an author. Now 66 years later, that dream has become a reality. Richard, thank you so much for coming to the show. Welcome. Well, thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to this. This will be fun. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  01:22

So tell us a little bit about about your new book. Well, first off, tell us about your journey just a little bit, you know, how did you get here? And what was able to give you the the time, the energy, I would say that the energy, you know, to, to write a book. And you know, the other thing is, you know, overcoming that page, you know, the blank page that typically mocks you or I don't know, I get so excited I got I'm gonna write something get down and get maybe three sentences like who were at all heard all those great ideas. I have go to delve a little bit about that journey.

 

Richard  01:57

I cheated.

 

Terry  02:00

All right, there we go.

 

Richard  02:01

So I never had to face a blank page. Well, how can you write a book without having a blank page? You interview people, and you get transcripts? So I interviewed about 75 people. They told some amazing stories. I intentionally let them talk. I didn't lead the witness. I'd ask questions like, Oh, really? Oh, tell me more. Oh, why is that? And so they went on and on and on. And at the end of the interviews, I had 800 pages of transcripts. Wow.

 

So I never faced a blank page, what I faced was too many pages that I had to now cut down to one of the really great stories. But backing up. Yes, I did cheat on this. But it still was a lot of work. I never had that kind of writer's block experience. But I had a lot of other challenges along the way. But some of my friends had told me some stories about what they were doing. And things people I'd known for quite a long time. And I didn't know you were doing that. That's really cool. One of my buddies had been in the Senior Olympics, and then won medals, and had been too modest to tell me about it.

 

Once he opened up on the story, it was an amazing story. And this guy, he was into fitness. And he was in several different events. And it was just a fascinating story. Over the next couple of weeks after that, I heard a couple of other friends tell me something interesting they had done. I, at one point, had this kind of eureka moment of saying these stories are terrific. They need to be told. And I'm in the ideal position to do that. I had recently retired, I had the time to do it, I had the interest to do it. And the question was, was there enough material out there to do it with and that turned out to to be the easiest part of all, having plenty of material was was really easy.

 

Terry  04:09

Yeah, and I mean, really the older generation, and then they give you the best lessons and they have the best stories and recall of and it just is so meaningful, to sit and listen and and just hear about their childhoods and, and their professional life. And, you know, so many times people talk about their grandparents and it's like, sometimes they don't talk about really what they did as a profession. All the time. We just recently had a guest who, who was talking about the modern grandparent, and she she talked a lot about that as well. So I can imagine so many of these, I wouldn't have been able to narrow it down. That must have been really hard. You know, just to change thing to narrow it down to all his stories because I'm sure you've learned so much from all of them.

 

Richard  05:06

Yeah, it was I hired, experienced professional editor to work side by side with me. And she was like my conscience on a lot of these things. I do i'd transcript i'd edit it down into a story and we'd call and she'd say, I don't get it. I What, what's the point of this story? And it's like, Well, wait, what do you mean, you don't get it? I looked the guy in the eye. And he said, this is I didn't look into the eye. I just read the words on the page. I don't get it. So I had a conscience. With her, I had my own desire to not duplicate. So some of the stories overlapped with each other. And I just, you know, I can't have multiple stories, telling the same learning experience. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  05:57

Well, that may be that may be a harder challenge than the blank page, because now you've actually heard this, you've interacted, it's like, well, which piece of this? Do I have to cut off? Or, you know, whose Are we going to take? So that probably makes it a much more difficult decision?

 

Richard  06:12

After you've looked someone in the eye? Yeah. And they've shared some deep experience, it's emotional. They're connected to it, they engaged me in that conversation. And as you just said, saying, okay, that's not going to be in the book. Right?

 

Roy Barker  06:30

So, did most of your get most of the people that you interviewed were? I mean, did you kind of start with that, you know, friends and family, the closed circle and then go out? Or was there a method to who you actually talk to?

 

Richard  06:44

It started with with people that I knew. And then almost like traditional networking, at the end of each interview, I would say, who else should I talk to. And pretty soon, I just had a heavy flow of candidates to interview. And so that turned out to be a pretty easy process. And then in the tail end of it, I started identifying some things that I was missing. And I went out and sought those out. I wanted someone who had a good experience and independent living.

 

And I found this 102 year old lady living independently, and feisty and fun loving and active and does all sorts of different things. But I, I picked a geography that I didn't have yet, which was Memphis. And then I just identified independent living centers. And I contacted them. And I said, I'm about to write a book about this, do you have someone in your facility that you think would be fun to interview? So that when I saw it out, and I had a few others where I had a method to finding the person?

 

Roy Barker  07:58

I think it's a, well, I think it's great that you've, you've done this, and we always encourage people that, and this is a good time, if you've got your health, of course, if you if you're not healthy, then it's a challenge at any age. But, you know, this is such a good time that the kids are grown in on their own doing their thing. Because we're in a little low because, you know, we were starting to accumulate grandkids so that, you know, that will be some time away. But the freedom, I guess the the, the confidence and the experience in life is that you know, we will brave just about anything.

 

That sounds adventure. So we're not I don't think we're, we're not parachuters or bungee jumpers yet, but jumping, I just feel like this is such an awesome time, you know, for me anyway, to be this age. And there's so much available so much that we want to do and get out there. So it's it's encouraging. You know, the book, hopefully, it'll encourage others that it's not a time just to stop laugh, but really, it's a time to begin live a different life.

 

Richard  09:03

Yeah, exactly. And a lot of the stories are educational in an inspirational kind of way. Or you say, Wow, if that person could do that, think of what I could do. Donna was was someone I interviewed, a complete stranger. I'd never met her before. She had four surgeries on her legs in three years. She had two hip replacements, two knee replacements. She was on a cane for three years. And then she said, Now I got almost all new parts. I can get myself fit again.

 

I want to do something really tough. And she said to her boyfriend, let's go climb Mount Kilimanjaro in Africa. 19,000 feet of climbing over six days. And her girlfriends and her buddies are saying Donna, you're crazy. You couldn't have done that when you were 20 years old. She said, You don't understand, I'm going to do this. And she said about training, she said about learning about what she had to do to get fit for it. And I want to give away the ending of you know how those six days turned out. But this was one very determined person.

 

Who, when, when you read her story, and you hear about what she did, if you're sitting on the sofa, saying, should I go take the dog for a walk, you know, you just can't, you just can't have an excuse for that anymore. It's like, I can do more than I'm doing. If Donna can climb Kilimanjaro, I can take the dog for a walk.

 

Terry  10:39

Well, and I remember seeing her looking at your website, I remember seeing her picture on there. And I that is such such an amazing thing. And then what, which other one was, I think, and about Tom, who created the tacky Tavern tour to entertain? What can you tell us about him?

 

Richard  11:04

Yeah, this is a guy who has always had a good sense of humor. And he said in my retirement, I'm going to take it to a higher level, I'm going to test my limits. And so he has parties and in get togethers and things that are unusual, and kind of challenge the norms. So he gets a group of people together to go to on attacchi Tavern tour.

 

And that is to identify a series of taverns that normally you wouldn't dare go into. And they go in there as group. And it sounds like it could be snobbish, but it's actually the opposite. They actually go in and they immerse with the crowd. And they have like a social connection with the people that are in that bar. And, and they have a lot of subtle laughs, they have a great time with it. And we've actually been on one of the tacky Tavern tours, and it was something I will remember the rest of my life, it was just an amazing experience. So whatever the taverns that we're attacking is probably an understatement.

 

Roy Barker  12:15

Every interest we find with restaurants, sometimes that's the best, you know, the one that you are scared to go into ends up being probably some of the best food out there. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So which one of these stories was your biggest surprise from and I know that they're all awesome, or they wouldn't have been included? But you know, which one is the one you sat down and started interviewing and then said, you know, this is gonna be, you know, an average story that just turned out to be incredible.

 

Richard  12:48

Boy, that's a couple of them really stand out to me. One couple decided they'd had a good life. Life had been good to him. They were pretty well off financially. And they felt they wanted to do something to give back in their retirement that give back financially, but give back with their time. They decided to volunteer to teach anger management, in a maximum security prison. Wow. Yeah, that, and it's like, wait a minute.

 

And they said, We're going into this knowing that most of the days we go in there are going to be a failure. We're going into this knowing that most people wouldn't want to do this kind of volunteering. Because they get ended, they end up being shouted out ended up, you know, having confrontations. And they go back. They've been going back every week, almost every week for 17 years. Wow. So when someone shouts at them, they say, I understand that you don't agree with what I've said, Let's, let's both think about it. And we'll be back next week. And the person kind of says, when when I just screamed at you, and you're coming back next week. And, and they go through this, this cycle, and they said their success rate is low. It's terribly low.

 

But when they have a success, they've changed a life. And I just I thought about doing that for 17 years. They retired early. And the the, the wife and the couple, they would often separate in the present go to different parts of the prison. She'd go into, you know, different places where she was alone. And there was a guard maybe up on the fence looking down. And I said why don't you terrify? And she said, No, I really wasn't, I was there. I had a reason for being there. None of the volunteers and the president ever harm, never been a problem. And she said, Sometimes when I look up to see if the garden was still up there, if the guard wasn't there, I'd feel a little twitchy.

 

But she said, I knew I was there for a reason. And I was going to try to accomplish it. That was that was a really special story to me. I just, I couldn't imagine failing that often, with a sincere effort. And that was a big part of it for him. They said, as giving back, I don't want to give back something easy. I want to give back something that will be really tough for me. Wow, pick the good one.

 

Terry  15:37

Sure, very challenging.

 

Roy Barker  15:39

And they, you know, and to keep going back for 17 years. that's a that's a huge commitment.

 

Terry  15:45

And then did they in their, in their professional life? Did they have anything to do with anger management in any particular way? Or did they just,

 

Richard  15:56

they both both adopted kind of Buddhist meditation principles. And that was an important part of their calmness of their life, they can deal with difficulty, personally very well. Bruce, is a terrific softball player, and he's still playing softball. He's almost 80 years old, still playing in a softball league, they went to a national championship. And he said, the joy of the softball, and the challenge of the prison experience, kind of balance each other out.

 

I love playing softball, and every time I go out, it's a good day. The prison experience, most days are not good. But then I go out and play softball the next day. So they really figured it out. And they've been very thoughtful about it. And she's very active in doing some things with young kids in a in a preschool. And again, that that's positive almost all the time. So they've got this kind of life balance that they've consciously figured out.

 

Roy Barker  17:05

Cool. So we're all of the interviewees in the US.

 

Richard  17:12

I had one that was in most part in the US pretty well, geographically distributed around the US. I had one in the UK, who was referred to me. And a really interesting guy, Steve had a career actually worked for IBM. He'd done analytical stuff all of his life. A lot of data analysis kind of stopped very quantitative stuff. And he got very good at it. And then he said, but I never got to use my right brain. I never got the creative side, I was always in these kind of analytical things, and I have all these spreadsheets and I do all this stuff. I'm going to do a right brain retirement, I'm going to turn on that other side of my brain and see if it works.

 

See if it's atrophied during this time, we're doing our left brain stop, or if there's anything left of it. And so with, with the help of his wife, who had some skills in those areas, he started doing some painting. He then posted it on Facebook to see if anybody liked what he was doing. And of course, you know, he got a lot of positives, whether those were real, or just people being nice, who knows. But it but it turned it turned the switch on from this is all they love what I'm doing, they love what I'm doing. So then he had an opportunity to paint a sign for an art studio in exchange for them letting him do a show there.

 

And so his first show, he sold about 20 paintings, and drawings, and he made about 1500 bucks. And he said, I never imagined it was really funny at this. He says I never imagined people would like what I was doing. So he Steve went on to actually start singing solo in, in Greece, you know, it's kind of a karaoke bar. And he said, again, that's right brain stuff. So he really transformed himself. Well, the other the other point I want to make, it's easy to gravitate towards the inspiring stories. Whenever everybody in the book is not inspiring, some of the people are going through a rough patch. They're going through a patch of uncertainty or difficulty.

 

There's two kind of late life divorces in the book. And how did they How did they deal with that? How did they come back from that? There's some incomplete stories in the book, where we took a snapshot in time. The interview occurred they told me where they were at In this in a couple of cases, I don't know what I'm going to do next. And one of the first reviewers of the book said, you got to give the answer. You can't just give the question that I said, No, you don't understand.

 

This is a cross section, I want people to be able to identify with a lot of different things that happen during the stage. And to say, everybody climbs Kilimanjaro just isn't right. There are people who are really having a tough time figuring out something that they need to think through and they need to deal with in a certain way.

 

Terry  20:39

Are there any of those incomplete stories that stick out to you that? I mean, I, I can imagine that you're probably going to want to maybe follow up with them on the next one. But or is there any particular story that kind of tugged at your heart and made you think a little bit about how it maybe transferred to your life or might help somebody else or somebody could help them? Yeah,

 

Richard  21:15

I think, Well, let me answer the question in two ways. Let me answer a question a little different than the one you asked. And then I'll come back to the one that you asked. We're getting together on August 28, to have a reunion of everybody. And to hear kind of what happened next. Some of them some of them I've stayed in touch with and I know.

 

But we're all going to get together someone zoom some in person, and over half of the people in the book are going to be part of this. And we're going to say Okay, so what happened? What happened since then, how did this story and what are you doing now? How have you changed. And I'm just I couldn't be more excited about those things. On those where I don't know what happened next. So we'll have that kind of an experience.

 

22:05

I think

 

Richard  22:09

the one story that I think is kind of a typical one. This is a guy who had been the fire chief. And when I interviewed him, he'd been retired for about three months. And this was in Northern California, where fires are just a terrible, terrible thing now. So this guy's work, life had been very stressful, very challenging, very different than it was very different in the last few years of his working career.

 

And so when he retired, he said, he still gets calls from the station, he still gets people saying, What do I do about this? Or there's a fire burning here? What do you know about the kinds of trees that are up in that part of the town? And he said, They call me chief. And he says, I'm not the chief. I'm retired. And then he but then he said to his wife, he says, You know, I don't know if I've retired or not. He's on my mind is still in my previous job.

 

So I think for a lot of people, there's this time in which they're sorting out, and he had some very specific plans on what he wanted to do next. But at three months into it, he was still getting a lot of phone calls, saying, hey, Chief, what do I do? So So I think, I think that's kind of a prototype of several of the people where they hadn't quite let go, they hadn't quite engaged with what was next. Now

 

Roy Barker  23:41

that you may have answered this with the gentleman that went from left brain, right brain, but one thing I was going to ask was, what was the biggest flip from, you know, their career or early life to maybe what they were pursuing in retirement.

 

Richard  24:02

One of the guys I interviewed had been an international diplomat. And he worked mostly in developing countries. He worked in Singapore, he worked in a lot of places in Africa. And at age 50, he was offered an early retirement from the diplomatic corps. And you know, as a diplomat, you've got this whole aura around you of you know, you're very pristine, you always got a necktie on you always got to be on your best behavior, all that sort of thing.

 

And what Chuck said to himself was, I want to use the skills that I've learned as a diplomat of managerial skills, but I don't want to hang around Washington, I don't want to be a lobbyist. I don't want to do any of that kind of stuff. I want to disengage completely from being a diplomat. So what he decided to do was form a bird Watching a company in Africa, where he would take tours out of people who were interested in seeing exotic birds throughout Africa.

 

He said, because he had worked in several parts of Africa, and was a bird watcher when he was there, he said he had a lot of relationships with people who could be tour guides, and people who knew where the birds were hanging out that sort of thing. And he said, I wanted to reinvent myself totally. And being the CEO of a bird watching company seemed quite a bit different from being a diplomat.

 

Terry  25:36

Exactly. That's awesome. Well, I like I also like the quote that you have on your website, that from the quotes, quotes from retirees stories, retirement is a state of mind. It doesn't, it means I don't have to do anything. But I can if I want, right? So yes, exactly. Exactly. Expanding on that with all of those stories. Oh, what a wonderful, wonderful project you have put together here.

 

Richard  26:06

I think for a lot of people, the there's this set of things where you're going to do something dramatic, or inspirational or major and all that, you still got to be able to kick back and watch a football game, you still be able to just sit back and read a book and just enjoy your leisure time. And find the blend that is right for you. And that might be doing a lot of those kinds of things. Because you've earned it, you can you can do what you choose.

 

And I tried my very best to make sure there was a balance in the book between people of varying levels of intensity in this next stage. One of my very close friends said to me, You know what, some of these stories are boring. And I said, What do you mean, he says they're boring, he says, I just don't connect to them. I said, well then turn the page. And he says, You're right, the next page, there's always another great story. But some of them just I don't connect with. And my point wasn't to say, I'm going to please all the people all the time, my point was to say, here's a cross section of people doing different things. And you as a reader will connect, if you don't connect with any of them, your brain dead.

 

I mean, I convinced you that if you read all these stories, and say none of them apply to anything I care about, then then I feel sorry for you. But nobody is going to read all the stories and say I connect all of them, or I even like all of them. The 102 year old lady living and independent living, I think it's an amazing story. But for some people, it's not at all, you know, it's it's like, well, that's what she does.

 

Terry  27:57

And, and was she the oldest person that you spoke with? Yesterday was Yes, I was gonna ask you. And

 

Richard  28:05

so the young between the youngest and the oldest, there's a factor of two. So there's, there's a couple of 50 year olds in the book, who chose to do something that they referred to as retirement and might might still be very active. But it wasn't it wasn't paid employment in their normal way. One guy had a very good career in the high tech business in Silicon Valley, and decided it was time to make more social impact. And so he resigned from his technology job, and started mentoring social entrepreneurs around the world.

 

And the neatest part of his story, he has daughters who are kind of college aged daughters. And he said, the conversations with my daughters now are completely different. They said, Dad, what you're doing now matters. You're taking care of my generation by doing something to help the world instead of going to work at some company that's making a profit out of that. This is one of you got to have that too. You got to have companies making a profit, you got to have an ability to make a living, all that sort of thing. But yes, I do feel differently about my career, my working career and my social enterprise kind of activities that I'm doing now.

 

Terry  29:41

Yeah, I bet that makes a huge difference with his relationship with his daughters. Because that age, I mean, my my daughters as well. It's like they really want to make a social impact. They don't quite know how to do that and then make a living as as well. So the fact that he was able to do that and and show his daughters? Yes, Yun is is an amazing feat.

 

Roy Barker  30:09

So So what about the difference in? You know, he said there was kind of a mix between not every story is in a happy place right this moment. But what about the mix between making that decision to retire step away maybe being forced out, and being able to do the things that you want to do versus being able or being forced into doing things that you need to do for survival? Did they fall fall out in any of those categories? Yeah,

 

Richard  30:46

I think there's you touched on earlier and one of your other questions to kind of preconditions here, you know, I'd call it health and wealth. You don't need to be enormously fit. But if you've gotten major health problems, it changes the range of choices that you have. Some of the people in the book have had some health problems. And adapted to them. The same thing with wealth, you use the word wealth, there's a there's kind of a minimum amount. And it's not even a very large amount, where you get by you can you're not worried about food on the table, you're not worried about, you know, making the rent payment.

 

But it doesn't need to be much more than that. But if you've got enough wealth, and enough health, then your choices are so dramatically different. And the health one is kind of the card you're dealt, I mean, if you've tried to keep yourself fit that that obviously helps. But a lot of people who have kept themselves fit, you know, still had health problems, the wealth problem is hard to come back from it's hard to retire at a certain age and be broke and say, well, I'll do something that will get me back on my financial feet, those choices are just really limited.

 

Roy Barker  32:16

Yeah, and that's something we talk a lot about here is not outliving our health, you know, and that's something that we, you know, we're trying to make some changes because you know, you can or not your outlive your health, but outlive your wellness, you know, and just not doesn't make for a very easy or fun, enjoyable time.

 

And sometimes we don't have a choice, you know, once we get there, but that's why we encourage people that you know, if we can start that conversation, make those better decisions earlier in life, it will make our later life much more enjoyable, and maybe allow us to make these choices because I know they're, you know, there's some people that are confined to either homes or institutions that they can't, you know, they couldn't go out and walk down the street, much less go climb a mountain,

 

Richard  33:08

right. Now, one of the actually a couple of the people I interviewed had a to do list that had two columns, the to do list of what can I do now when I'm fit and healthy? And then what are the things that are would still be fun to do, but I can do them you know, when my knees have given out a little bit or not feeling so good or even even if I'm in a wheelchair, you know, you can you can do certain things and they've they're the ones that require them to be healthy they're doing them now

 

Roy Barker  33:43

Yeah, you know my I had a great I guess a great great grandmother somebody that was you know, really really old when I was young and that was the probably the better advice that she gave me then because she you know her body had given out she was confined to to a rocking chair most of the time but she's like, you really need to learn to enjoy reading because when you get to a point when you can't do anything else, you know it really gives you something to keep your mind younger and clear and help you to take those journeys and be in those places which was good advice. I'm not a good reader I'm it puts me to sleep I can read about three pages and

 

Richard  34:24

if you write if you read shifting gears make sure you pick the stories that you like, because no don't pick one of those boring ones. You'll be asleep at no time.

 

Roy Barker  34:33

Well, I'm kind of dozed out for a minute Terry's like, what did you read like a paragraph? No, and

 

Terry  34:40

I'm on like, I wish I'd taken the speed reading course you know, a long time ago, which I didn't but I do. I do like to kind of challenge myself and time myself where we you know, I can read like 30 to 40 pages, 40 pages every hour. And it just kind of depends on what kind of book it is. If I'm trying to Soak in every word or if I'm just trying to get the gist of it. So I challenged myself to do that I'd love to read I, it's just something that I don't do as often as I'd like to anymore. Yeah, yeah. So

 

Roy Barker  35:18

no, we, we encourage people to document and there's so many great ways to do that now, you know, writing it down, getting an interview, you know, or giving an interview, videotape. But, you know, I think that's probably a byproduct of this is that all of the people that you got to interview, even the ones that may not have been included? They've all got some documented evidence of their advice, their of their life that they can pass down, you know, to their kids and grandkids.

 

Richard  35:50

Yeah, one of the things I was surprised about is a handful, the people say, I'm going to just write something for no audience, it's for the audience of my family, or my grandkids, or whatever. And I'm just going to put my thoughts down. And maybe it's a diary every day, or maybe it's even a short book. But documenting became something that was important to write.

 

Terry  36:16

Yeah, and they, I mean, both of us, I think we we got both of our moms. There, there was a subscription to a service that would put together a book for a loved one, anybody, but we sent it to our moms and they sent they emailed a question a week, you know, and you could choose the questions or just kind of randomly choose to have them choose them. And you know, just anything like what was your grandparent and grandmother?

 

Like, what were you like, when you were 40? What, who was the best boss, you ever had your first job, you know, anything. And so we did that for a year. And you know, at the end of the year, they get this bound book, and you can add photos to it and things like that. So it was really kind of a neat thing that, that I'm glad that we were able to do. So but I did it, but I did have to I had to call her and interview her and and do it for her, you know, because she's not very techie as I am, I am not either, but I could do that part of it, then put it together and put her answers in and everything. So it was cool.

 

Roy Barker  37:34

All right, Richard, well, anything else that you want to leave us with? Before we wrap this up?

 

Richard  37:41

I just wanted to make a comment, I think what you're doing is is very neat, I think there's a need to think about the educational part of aging. You know, we're doing it all for the first time. We know what we're doing, you know, and we need to learn from things like what you guys are describing and the guests that you're bringing in. And getting people to just say, this is a learning experience, you don't automatically know what to do.

 

And learning through the stories learning through the, through the podcast learning through a variety of ways. People can reinvent people can recast themselves, if they get the influences, right if they get the kinds of things that you guys are doing to change their outlook to change their their pattern. So thank you for doing that. I'm sure you've got a lot of people really admiring what you're doing.

 

Terry  38:44

Well, thank you for the appreciate that. That's That's very nice. And you know, just community, it's all about community, it's all about sharing, and you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Somebody has done this before you some or something like that, you know, when you can talk to them and read whatever, you know, wherever they are Instagram, Facebook, read your book, you just anything there. There are resources out there, and it's just trying to get those into the hands of the people that really need it. It's important. Yeah, I'm

 

Roy Barker  39:17

kind of encouraging that it's, you know, we may struggle a little bit because like you said, we haven't done this before. So so we're learning but you know, to try to have the courage to try the the new things and just because you get a certain age doesn't mean you can't you know, climb a mountain or go be a kickboxer or whatever you put your mind to, we may not be not speak for me, you know, we may not be at the elite class, like we might have been in our 20s but at least we can do something enjoyable and have some fun. So

 

Terry  39:49

age is just a number really, yeah, it really is. and youth is wasted on the young right? I mean all those things.

 

Roy Barker  39:59

Well, Richard Taylor Before we get away a couple things, first off, is there a tool or a habit that you use in your daily life that you feel is very important, and it could be related to aging or just anything but a tool or habit, something you do every day?

 

Richard  40:22

Maybe it's not a daily habit, but I think being introspective and saying, is this going the way I want it to? Is this what I was hoping for at this stage and kind of constantly reexamining Matt. It just another short story, one of my friends, we've recently relocated to Pacific Grove, California, after living in one place for 18 years. And one of my friends said to me, would you have done that? If you had not interviewed all those people for your book?

 

And I had to say to them, I've never thought of that. But I think you're right. I saw all these people doing all this stuff. They weren't taking no for an answer. My wife and I have always wanted to live near the ocean, we always wanted to have a kind of lifestyle where the beach was right there. And we said, why not? So letting the example of others inspire us? We had this conversation, we said, let's do and let's go and it was turned out to be a move. That was been everything we had hoped it would be.

 

Terry  41:28

That's good to hear. Yeah. And Pacific Grove. What a What a beautiful place.

 

Richard  41:33

Oh, we love it. It's just great.

 

Terry  41:36

Where did y'all live before?

 

Richard  41:38

a place called Woodside, which was kind of near Palo Alto near Stanford. That's up in the redwood forests.

 

Terry  41:45

Yeah. Oh, another beautiful place

 

Richard  41:48

is a beautiful place. We lived in an isolated way, when we were in a redwood forest, we couldn't see a single neighbor. And our lifestyle was not very communal. We had a lot of friends. But they we would go to their house or they'd come to our house. In our new place. We made a conscious effort to say we want to be part of a neighborhood or sitting in our backyard and I heard the phone ring I want to go answer it turns out was a neighbor's phone. That's when we that's what we knew we were in a communal kind of.

 

Roy Barker  42:22

Yeah, and a couple ideas. And I'm trying to get some support from Terry here because the beach is one thing we've thought about. And you know, we would like to do that eventually. But the other thing I'm thinking about is the van they call it the van life you know, you trick out a little Airstream or van and you just mobile just like nomads pitch your tent wherever you are that night. And I think that would be I think that'd be so cool. Now have we got her on board

 

Terry  42:48

there or a time limit on it? You know, I might think about doing it for a couple of months. But yeah, but but I need I need to be stationary. As long as you take me to a beach. I don't care. I don't care.

 

Richard  43:03

So I can't remember what where it is in the book, but go to the one of AMD because Andy has the he and his wife decided to do the RV life. And they love it. They just they've it's really changed their lives and in a positive way.

 

Terry  43:19

Well, and yeah. And we've talked to a couple of guests who have done the same thing and they love it. They've just got their little Airstream and they just go wherever they want to. And they do everything virtually. So yeah, it were

 

Roy Barker  43:34

rad. I'm gonna get some support going here. cards, cards and letters. All right, Richard. Well tell us again. Well, before I even ask you to tell us about the book is there going to be the second 50 is that kind of on the list or the first 51st 50 and done or a new 50

 

Richard  43:57

there's a couple of different ways I could go on that right now. I'm I'm just enjoying being out there with the book, we've just released an audio book which takes which adds a dimension to this as well. So I'm having fun with it now. I don't know what I'm going to do next I there's plenty. Because of the things that I've been doing with social media. The number of people who have shown up on my doorstep with these stories is unbelievable.

 

And the sequels of the stories that I've got, there's some really interesting ones too. But I just don't know if I want to put my energy into it at this point. I haven't really decided and I'm doing some other things that I'm enjoying very much working with social entrepreneurs as well. And that's that's that's been really fun. So I don't know if I if I've got it in me to do another one. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  44:54

Hey, but you climb that hill. So kudos to you for doing that.

 

Terry  44:58

Yes. You're an awesome Holy cow. Well, what's fun?

 

Roy Barker  45:03

Yeah. So tell us about Shifting Gears: 50 Baby Boomers Share Their Meaningful Journeys in Retirement, where can we find it? How can people reach out? You know, to your website? Things like that.

 

Richard  45:17

So, yes, the book is Shifting Gears: 50 Baby Boomers Share Their Meaningful Journeys in Retirement. It's available on Amazon and the other major online booksellers. There's an audio book that's available now. I have a website in which there's a lot of support materials, a lot of blogs that I've done. I've had some guest bloggers Come on that. And that's Richard Haiduck.com. And that's, that's turned out to be something people have really enjoyed as well.

 

Roy Barker  45:52

All right, cool. Well, we'll put all that in all the information in the show notes as well. So y'all run out pick up shifting gears. Sounds like a lot of great stories we haven't. We're ours is on the way, and we can't wait to read it and see what we can learn from it and make our later life and retirement much more exciting. Oh, yeah.

 

Richard  46:13

So you have to make the you have to make a promise to me. Okay, after you both read the chapter about the RV. Tell me if anything changes.

 

Roy Barker  46:24

Yeah.

 

Terry  46:28

That'll be fun. Richard, thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Enjoy me. We're looking forward to enjoy the book. I just I love hearing stories.

 

Roy Barker  46:38

Such a great project. It really is really great fun.

 

Richard  46:41

I couldn't have had more fun doing it. So thank you both very much. This has been a fascinating discussion. I've enjoyed it.

 

Roy Barker  46:49

Well thank you very much. that's gonna do it for another episode of AGEUcational Of course, I am Roy. Terry, you can find us at www.AGEUcational.com we're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify. If we're not on one that you listen to reach out, I'd be glad to get that added.

 

We're on also on all the major social media networks, we probably tend to hang out on Instagram a little bit more than others. Reach out we'd be glad to interact with you there. capa excuse me a video of this interview will go up on YouTube. When it's published. You can reach out there see this interview in its entirety as well as some of the past interviews that we've had. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

 

www.richardhaiduck.com

www.AGEUcational.com

Wow! How Grandparents Have Changed. Learn About Today's Modern Grandparents with Suzette Perez-Tate

Grandparents aren't just rocking on the front porch any longer. Today's grandparents are doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs. They are hip and cool. They run marathons, they are yoga masters, help with afterschool child care, and all without the "blue hair" bun. When someone says they are a grandparent, don't be fooled.

About Suzette

My name is Suzette Perez-Tate, I am the creator and coauthor of the children's picture book series The Grands Modern-Day Grandparent.

I am a modern-day grandparent from Southern California. My husband and I have a blended family with 5 adult children and 5 grandchildren.

Many children's books highlight grandparents as a one dimensional character in the way they look, the way they act, and the role they play in their grandchildren's lives.

This was not a concept that was relatable to me and it inspired me to create a children's books series that included a variety of characters and a variety of family dynamics.

Along with my coauthor Anisa Delaluz, we have been able to publish 2 books in our series so far. Our hope is that families will see themselves in this series. 

FB - The Grands: Modern Day Grandparent

IG - @thegrandsmdg

www.AGEUcational.com

Full Transcript Below

Wow! How Grandparents Have Changed. Learn About Today's Mode...

Sun, 7/25 1:13PM • 46:05

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

book, grandparent, grandparents, called, granddaughter, grandchildren, grands, people, grandmother, fun, characters, publish, grandma, day, thought, race, stories, terry, talk, years

SPEAKERS

Suzette, Terry, Roy Barker

 

Roy Barker  00:05

Hello, and welcome to another episode of AGEUcational This is Roy and says Terry so we are the podcasts that are chronicling our journey through the aging process. Some things that we bump up against questions and hopefully provide some answers also struggling you know some struggles that our parents are going through and some answers or you know, solutions that we've provided. We talk a little bit about our personal situation, but also we have guests on from time to time today is no different. Terry, I'm going to let you introduce Suzette.

 

Terry  00:37

Yeah, our guest today is author Suzette Perez Tate. She is the creator and co author of the children's picture book series, The Grands Modern Day Grandparent. She is a modern day grandparent from Southern California, she and her husband have a blended family with five adult children and five grandchildren. Many children's books highlight grandparents as a one dimensional character in the way they look, act, and the role that they play in their grandchildren's lives. This was not a concept that was relatable to her. And it inspired her to create a children's book series that included a variety of characters, and a variety of family dynamics, along with her co author, and Anisa Delaluz, they have been able to publish two books in their series so far. Their hope is that families will see themselves in these series in this series. Suzette, thank you so much for coming to the show. Welcome.

 

Suzette  01:32

Thank you so much for having me.  Glad to be here.

 

Roy Barker  01:35

Yeah, we're excited. This is gonna

 

Terry  01:36

be awesome timeline.

 

Roy Barker  01:38

So, um, you know, kind of what, what led up to this point? You know, I know we've talked a lot about it, but kind of tell people your journey, what brought you here, and then maybe even, you know, the maybe through the writing process or the inspiration, I mean, the blank page is daunting, and it can really harm a lot of people kind of getting through that. But talk to us about that process for a minute.

 

Suzette  02:03

Sure, sure. So I can talk to you a little bit about what led up to this first. So in 2017, I was a grandmother, and actually four years prior to that, but 2017 kind of sticks out in my mind. So my granddaughter was about four years old and used to tease about it saying that, you know, these aren't relatable, these characters in the books, I would read a book with her and it just didn't look like me, it didn't act like me interact, the things that we would do, you know, I would go to Disneyland with her. And she'd wear princess dress. Well guess what I would hear stories like that. So we kind of the fun grandmas. So in 2018, I'd say about three months after my mom passed, my husband and I went away for the weekend. And on my way back, I just have this flood of energy about I gotta do something about this, it's, you know, there's something, there's a void out there with children's books and when they're highlighting grandparents, and so I happen to have my laptop with me. So I grabbed that. And we had, you know, a couple of hours still on our way back from our trip. And I'm, you know, just the energies coming in and just flowing through and I created a deck about the concept of what I'd like to see, you know, whether it's with children's books, children's merchandise, you know, dolls, and even TV shows. So a lot of this, I have a deck that I created. And then I started to socialize it. And so there were, because what I found is that with my experience, you know, over the years was that my I felt different, right from the book, what I was seeing in the stories, but then when I spoke with my friends and family members that were grandparents, their story was different than mine even. So there's just was so much to capture, because I felt like wow, you know, I'm an out of state, grandparent. And so my interactions, you know, are not as frequent face to face, right. But we're very close. But then I have a girlfriend who, you know, she picks up her granddaughter after school every day. So she's around the corner from her and she's involved on her daily, you know, through just daily daily appearances with her. And so I started to put that, you know, into my deck that I created and when I socialized it, people kind of have that aha moment like Yeah, why hasn't it been done already? To start to think, right?

 

Roy Barker  04:33

Like, doesn't the you're probably way too young to even get this reference, but there used to be an old cartoon called Tweety Bird. And in Tweety Bird at the, you know, Tweety birds mom was the grandma, but she had the been, you know, the wire, the wire glasses, no teeth yet no t shirt always wore kind of like, it's not like a gown, but it's like the grandma house coat, you know, whatever. Yeah, and so very, very steep, stereotypical, and you know that I don't mean to interrupt, but it's just something that jumps out, you know, looking through the book is that, you know, that character is not in this book at all.

 

Suzette  05:14

It's funny, you say that reference of the bunch, you know, bring here but on the head, and, hey, look, if I let my hair go, it might be, you know, all gray. But that's not the reality, right? That's not, that's not the reality that children are seeing. And so I'm doing this some marketing stuff that I do, I actually do wear a wig that is gray. And then I have glasses on, and I share towards the end, do you know, but today, this is how I did I show the me to show the difference of what I'm, you know, explaining here with the series and the concept. And so, you know, as I socialized it, I then started to towards the end of 2018, I got a little bit more serious about it. And I went ahead and looked for illustrators, I went through about five or six. And I can tell you that process, it was interesting. On one of them, when I was trying to do a logo, I explained the concept, right, so this is separate than just by illustrators for the book. And I had the logo to explain the concept. And what I thought back was the gray hair. Right? I said, Well, no, I don't have anyone in my book that's that I'm even envisioning in this series with the gray hair fully like that with the bun, with the traditional, you know, look like that. And so with the ice, I need something more modern. So they responded back with me to give it back to me, and they just put her in a business suit. But still, like, this journey, it was definitely interesting trying to explain to people No, I'm trying to that's what I you know, I don't want to change that, that, you know, that look or anything like that for because it's, it is out there. And there's stories out there where they do talk about being sick or dying. And that's needed. I don't want you to I just want to add to it.

 

Roy Barker  07:09

Yeah. You know, it's great. Because if you really look around today, and in this modern time that, you know, grandmas look more like yourself and who you portray in the book, not that person. It's I don't know, if it's, I guess it's just such a different time. Because, you know, in my time when I was young, that's who you saw, you know, very rarely, baby young Grandma, but now it's more prevalent,

 

Suzette  07:39

is Yeah, absolutely. And then, you know, slowly as it's started to, you know, get some life as I got through collaborating with an illustrator, and then now I needed the writing. And so late, you know, 2018, again, still, I actually discussed it with a family member or friend of a friend of our family. And she had a passion for writing and wanted to work on a, you know, project like this. So we collaborated together, we started this in February 2019. And then we got to a point where we got to publish. So we met this was, you know, during our time in 2019. And then last year, in 2020, we continued this, so we just kind of started in 2019, and then eventually got to, we were living probably 60 miles away. And so we kind of we're already doing a lot of virtual stuff with this. So in 2020, it became You know, it wasn't too new for us. Right? Right. So it was natural. So, so we did a lot of this remote. And then in June of 2020, we got to the point where Okay, we we need to publish this, but how do we do this? So we have to ask people, you know, just go around, ask those who have published, and you have kind of a couple options, you can self publish. Or you can go to an independent publisher, who's kind of in the middle between self publishing, and a publishing company. So they kind of show you the ropes, what to do. And so we came with pretty much a finished product. So we did go with the middle person there with the independent publisher. And so she helped us there with things that we needed to do and with whether it came to marketing, or just setting everything up an Amazon. When you talk about kind of get it, how do you get the story started, right? I know you're curious about that. And we, at the beginning, I think I had so much of the concept. So now we had to collaborate on the structure. You had to look at what and I'm very grateful. That, you know, any of the writing stuff, but thankfully my co author, she had more experience with this. And so we had to create the profiles of each of these characters, you know, so that it made sense, you know, anytime we're going back to talking to different events, and then we had to go in and consider the title. You know, I take that that title and the title page, we've I don't know why I felt like that. Seemed like we spent so much time there, because that's what's holding people in, right?

 

Roy Barker  10:35

Well, as a, as a non rider rider, I actually was just going through that, you know, we have some business stuff that I publish on a blog. And so the other day, I was thinking, I mean, it was like, yesterday, I was thinking the same thing is like, I spent probably two hours tweaking this title and trying to get it right. And all told, it probably took me two hours to write the whole page, but definitely, right,

 

Terry  11:00

it is a struggle, and it's so important, especially blades, and then you know, on shelves, anything like that, it's gonna be what really jumps out and talks to me and trying to encompass everything that you want to say in one fell swoop without really giving everything away. It's a hard, exactly. ugly. So the first so the first book is the grand the race, the grounds the race, right here.

 

Suzette  11:26

And this actually, it's, you know, being newer to, you know, being an author, a published author, and just this arena, I will say that people are very, very interested in helping you, they're very helpful. So it's a totally different environment, I am really enjoying it. But what was exciting for us is that, you know, we publish this on Amazon. And then later, there was all of a sudden, we saw it on Barnes and Nobles, you know, online, and then we saw Walmart and Target, so it kind of spread through there. So that was neat, because they, you leave it open on Amazon, for distributors to come, you know, if they're interested, if they find that your book worthy enough, they'll, they'll put it on their platforms. And that's what happened. So we're so excited to see that that's awesome, really,

 

Terry  12:16

as variants,

 

Roy Barker  12:18

and it's good to hear that. People were there to support you and giving you talk, again, do a business show, and we talk about that a lot is that, you know, having the circle of influencers, people that we can turn to trust, but if we just ask people are so willing to give of their time and their knowledge to other people. And that's why, you know, just like if you feel stuck in a place, reach out, if it's geographically sensitive, you can, you know, in today's environment, you can find somebody in another town or another state that maybe not competition. And anyway, there's enough,

 

Terry  12:57

started somewhere, you know, everybody loves to share their story. Yeah.

 

Suzette  13:01

And that is what I found is that they weren't there. No egos. They weren't competitive like that. They really, were they generous, they wanted to see you generally want to see you succeed, you know, or it would just they're rooting for you. So yeah, very helpful. Great industry.

 

Roy Barker  13:19

So now, as you go through these, the book and the series, are you kind of drawing from life experiences, like the race is something that you enjoy doing 10 Kay's thing or something like that?

 

Suzette  13:34

So yeah, so that Yeah, some of these are definitely, you know, based on an or I should say, inspired by, you know, different events with either friends or people that I know. And one event that I did actually do was a charity race, and we had red shirts and red bow as

 

Terry  13:55

my kids.

 

Suzette  13:56

So and with the, you know, the grands the race, you actually get to learn about these six characters here, and their interactions with their grandchildren, as they're going through the race. And that was another part of what we had to try to, how do we keep this engaging instead of just telling about each different family dynamic, right, so how do we keep it flowing? And so that's where we can say, Well, you know, I did a charity race before. So we, we talked about that. And that's how you learn about each character throughout the race, and how that what their interaction is, because like I said, there's different ways that they are showing up for their families in their grandchildren's lives.

 

Terry  14:37

Yeah, how they all work together. family dynamics really play a huge part in everything and the family. I mean, it's just changed. It just seems to have changed so much more than, you know, just the, the historically how it's been. So you became a young Grandmother didn't Yes. I won't make you tell how old you were when you but you are you have a granddaughter now and she is she eight?

 

Suzette  15:10

Yes, she's the eight and a half Charlotte is my granddaughter and I became her grandmother at the age of 42. And, you know, she was in error, she moved to Arizona, gosh, early on before she was even one years old. So I've traveled back and forth there. And you know, thank goodness for technology. I actually work for a technology company. And so thank goodness for you know, video chat, because that's what I get to do with her frequently, or we just call each other.

 

Terry  15:41

So they're still in Arizona? Yes,

 

Suzette  15:44

they're still in Arizona, I have tried and tried to see, you know, when you guys keep asking, when are you coming back?

 

Terry  15:50

I don't think it's happening. And that seems to always be the plan is like, the grandparents always want you to come back closer, hello says, Oh my gosh, that's awesome that you're able to see her as often as you are. And with the technology, being able to share things in her life that you wouldn't otherwise

 

Roy Barker  16:10

have a great time to technology, you know, for these long distance relationships. It's just, it's

 

Terry  16:18

no reason now not to, not to be in touch absolutely a miracle.

 

Roy Barker  16:23

Because you know, you don't have to miss out on things with the, you know, like, I get even zoom or FaceTime or whatever. Like, if they're doing a school play, you just can hold up the phone. And you know, it's Yeah, it's not as great as being there. But it's still not as devastating as missing it.

 

Suzette  16:39

Right. And I get her. Gosh, I feel like I have custody, I get her a week during the summer and a week in the fall. And it's the best week, the best two weeks of the year ever for us.

 

Terry  16:52

Oh my gosh, that's so fun. And I want to point out your your shirt that you're wearing, that that has to do with the race, your book, the race with, they all had their names.

 

Suzette  17:05

Correct. So they all are wearing a jersey with their grandma name on it that their you know, grandchildren call them. And so I wear this, too. And then they have a pink Boa, you know that they were in it's kind of fun, I did a read aloud. For I worked for Verizon Wireless, and I got to do a read aloud for the employees and their children. So that was pretty fun. So I actually have, you know, my bow on with me and getting to interact with the children on the screen as well. So it was a great time.

 

Roy Barker  17:38

Yeah, and I don't think people get that you don't just pick a character and name them. And that's it. I mean, you probably have to really put a lot of thought into what is the backstory of this each of these different people?

 

Suzette  17:51

Yes. And so. And I think that's what what our collaboration, why it's so good with any set myself, because I have a lot of project management, you know, in my background. And so I'm very much in Excel saying, Hey, here's the profile for this one, here's a profile for this. And, you know, thinking about all the different things, their hobbies, what they like, you know, are they the fun grandparents? Are they the, you know, studious one, are they, you know, there's different ones. And when I talk about different family dynamics, you know, I'm talking about like, so I'm an out of state one. And then you have another one that it, like I said, picks up their child after the grandchild after school and has a lot of, you know, after daycare that they do, and then you have another one that is their family actually lives with their grandparents. And then another one where the child lives with the grandparent that's raising them for that moment. So, but we do it in very, you know, cautious way, obviously, of how we're, you know, displaying that we want it to be very familiar to each family that you know, is reading these stories and that they make they it's either you know, their family dynamic or somebody they know, we want it to be familiar.

 

Roy Barker  18:59

Yeah. So what is your is your granddaughter Craig, critic, what is her critique of the book,

 

Suzette  19:07

she loves the book, she's, she's excited. She thinks now that she's famous. She's in the book. She's having fun with it. Like at school, we give it to the teachers, you know, so we've allowed this last year, the end of last year, we gave it to her second grade teacher and now going into third grade, we gave it to her teacher and her teacher happens to be a grandmother and so it's um, you know, she got to read it on the first week of school. Oh, nice that she's enjoying it for sure. awesome gift. I

 

Roy Barker  19:37

know that she's very proud of you. Yes. Yeah. That's great.

 

Terry  19:41

And how did you Okay, so I want to talk about grandparent names. Because, you know, I told you pre show that I am going to be a grandparent for the first time. And my first reaction was, you know, my, my, my other daughter was like, Okay, so what do you what do you want to be called? And I said, Oh, Mrs. melotti because I didn't think you know that I don't think I'm old enough to be a grandparent, but they come in all ages. They really do.

 

Suzette  20:08

They really do. And so, with mine how I picked up I, honestly my daughter said, I picked it. I don't remember picking this, because I swear I wanted Bella.

 

Roy Barker  20:20

I'll tell my mother, she was a grandmother, I guess about the same age about 40 or 42. And she swore when you know, when she found out we were pregnant, she like that. I'm not going to be called granny. I'm just telling you that right now. And so she came up with GG Her name is Jerry g r y. So she everybody calls her GG. Well, I mean, that's just stuck. And anybody that she has met, you know, in the last 35 years. Everybody calls her gg

 

Suzette  20:54

firsters. TJ I love that. Yeah, my mother was actually to my granddaughter. She was called GG for great grandma. Yeah, so yeah, so there's different Yeah, I love hearing the stories by the way of how people will choose theirs. And I find that anytime I'm talking about the book or about just even before it was published, just the concept of it all. If I was talking with somebody who was either going to be a grandparent or was a grandparent at the time, they immediately start sharing stories with me. It's just a joyous thing. I think that you know, to share

 

Terry  21:32

with my mother, my mother is called booboo. I don't even remember how that came about. I don't I don't think that's what she wanted to be called initially. But it does. It doesn't mean you can be you can want to be called whatever you want. It doesn't always end up It may be hard to come up with any kind of name to call you. They sure do. I was gonna say granny was my second choice after Mrs. melotti There you go. Yeah, cuz even my grandmother, she'll call me Nano. She called me not a bear. Not a bear. Oh, yeah.

 

Roy Barker  22:06

Well, let's talk about some of the challenges of grandparents. I mean, you know, you can make a list of the pros and cons. The, I guess the On the plus side is like, you're still kind of hip and you know, technology. And you know, you can kind of hang with the kids, you know, yeah. So that's how we learn on. But then on the other side of that coin, you know, I in when I was coming up my grandparents, none, none? Well, the the grandmothers, none of them work, they all stayed at home and had plenty of time. So that is definitely a challenge in not only today's environment, but also with being a grandmother younger is that you know, you're still in your mid career. So you know, your size about your work and what you're doing. And trying to balance all of that. Yeah.

 

Suzette  22:56

Yeah. So it's so on our second book is The grands time with my grand, you'll see, they all have, like, you see, right? Here's a doctor, flight attendant right here, you know, they got some entrepreneurs a student dinner, right here, you have a restaurant owner, you know, this is an office manager. So that we, I wanted to I was very, very conscious of that and really wanted that, because that's my reality is, you know, I'm still in my career stuff on my day job. So, you know, I wanted to make sure that was the thought I had was that, you know, we never hear in these books about what our grandparents did, you know, or, you know, that kind of journey up to being that grandparent, right. We never got to hear that. So that's where I'm starting in this book, also, to highlight some of that.

 

Roy Barker  23:52

Yeah, and I know, yours is a little bit different. But, you know, because you're telling the story of the younger grands, and, you know, I think it's kind of like, for people like Terry, that, you know, once she picked herself up off the floor, you know, this is the good way to kind of dial, you know, in Dr. Ne into, you know, it's okay, it's okay. But I think it's also a good point to make is that there's other vehicles out there, that it's important, I think that you take the time to create a book of your grandparents, as you go, you know, with the digital phones with, you know, the video on phones, you can, you know, there are some other services out there that are very reasonable that, you know, can publish little books with the picture, but I think that history is so important because we we don't you just

 

Terry  24:43

lost

 

Roy Barker  24:44

Yeah, and you don't want to you don't want to ever imagine that you will lose your grandparents, but it's inevitable. Now, once they're gone, that history is gone about, you know, like mine. I wish there's so many more questions. I wish I can answer it. Funny one, you know, we lived in a small town, used to be a small town, and my grandmother, they were from, like the next town over a little bitty place. And so I had gone in when I was in high school, I went to that school for a basketball game. And I came home, I was laughing, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I said, this gym was so small, like, it was the cafeteria. And it was the gym. And it was the auditorium. Because on one side, you know, like, out of the out of bounds is like two feet. And then there was a stage and on the other side, but anyway, I was just Yi Han and going on about this. And she's like, well, when they had built this in her time, when she played basketball, she said, Well, we thought we were uptown because we had an indoor basketball. She said prior to that, she said we played outside on a dirt dirt court. And anyway, yeah, so just it was kind of cool being here that Yeah, and being so close. But now that I'm this age, I think, Oh my gosh, how many of these stories did I miss out on from both her and my grandma? My grandfather?

 

Suzette  26:11

No, absolutely. Yeah. So yeah, I encourage anyone to definitely take that time to ask me, you know, and my grandmother does ask me those questions. Did they have this when you were little? Or you know, what did you look like when you were a little? What did you like to watch? And so when you look at that gap, it's music I think is the thing. So when I have her in the car, I have to try and remember to play with she likes.

 

Terry  26:33

Oh, no, make a play, make make them play. You know, you play what you like. So then, you know, 20 years down the road right. Now Oh, there's that opera. You know, I used to do that to sing it really loudly. I don't even write but. But, Mike, my kids listened to my music. You know, well, my music is theirs, too. I bring them growing up that like some of their stuff, too.

 

Suzette  27:01

Yeah, that's true. And I do recall, like, my, my daughter will say even my son, you know, like, Oh, yeah, I remember we used to listen to this on the way to school.

 

Roy Barker  27:11

Yeah, yeah, my kids are probably more authority on on my music than I am that, you know, we made them listen to it so, so much. And try to teach them the history of it

 

Terry  27:21

well, and we would sing the garbled, garbled lyrics, whereas now they know exactly every day right now. garbled. garbled lyrics is a lost art.

 

Roy Barker  27:34

That brings up a good point about I guess, the competition for attention. Because again, your your grandchildren have so much more stimulus, there's so many activities, there's telephones, there's so much TV, I mean, back in my day, cartoons on Saturday morning for a couple hours. And that was really it. And so, you know, there wasn't all of this competition for time and the stimulus? How is that? Or if you know, if you can even relate to that, how is that different?

 

Suzette  28:09

So, it is different. I'm 51, by the way, so I do. So, you know, I think it's fun that I will talk to her about the games that I played outside, you know, kick the can Yeah, so Grover, you know, I talked to her about a lot of that. And so she knows, you know, and I go into explaining about, you know, all of it. So I do I do talk with her about that. And I do like to do things that are hands on with her a lot of times and so whether it's reading or you know, drawing and things like that, so that it does take away from kind of the technology stuff. I will say though, Terry, what you will have to do is starting to research, these new products, they are nothing like what we used to before I'm going to tell you that from the car seats, and to you know, taking those car seats, putting them into the I will never forget one time. Thankfully, I didn't have her in the stroller yet. I didn't put the lock on that thing went down the road, to get it out to get ready to get somebody help me I was in there. I was nice to soccer game. And so somebody helped me and they said, Oh, is this your first one? And I thought Oh, thank you.

 

Terry  29:26

No, it's not about that yesterday about the car seat and was like yeah, we're gonna have to start figuring out how to do the car seat. No, I didn't even my oldest while she's she'll be 30 in March, but I had her car seat in the front seat base and backwards. Well. I mean, we didn't even have car seats when we were young. It was like, you know, throw you in the backseat and taunt you know? Well, more of

 

Roy Barker  29:57

us were in the backseat. The, you know, the old, old timey cars there was like the deck, there's the backseat and the deck, and then you know, the window. And you could actually, you know, kind of slide up in there and that little groove and ride around and nobody thought twice about it. And now, you know, I mean, it's great. There's some because I'll tell you what, somebody hit the brakes. He comes flying off that crash, right. But yeah, there's so much and it's funny, because I guess my mother was at Costco the other day, and she already bought the first box that died. Oh, my

 

Terry  30:34

gosh, I was bawling.

 

Roy Barker  30:35

I told her I said, you know, we need to start accumulating these diapers because, you know, they go through

 

Terry  30:43

diapers she brought, I just brought tears to my I'm like, Oh, my God, it's happening.

 

Suzette  30:49

It's happening. I just remember to with diapers. Oh, my goodness. After my last pack, I just I felt it's felt so Salvatore. Like I don't have to buy another pack of

 

Roy Barker  31:02

the, I won't say this about grandkids, because they're really not on your payroll. But that's like, you know, when you have kids, I say the two best days of kids are the day that they're born and then the day you get them off your payrolls?

 

Suzette  31:15

Yeah. You can't help yourself sometimes I think, and that is another thing. I had to really learn the boundary, you know, it whether it was over firing or, you know, I had to even with, let's say, like, with the with, I think bringing the year when we you know, President Biden and Kamala Harris, I wanted to explain to her that this is the first female, you know, Vice President and, and I looked over at my daughter, I haven't told her that and I thought, Okay, this was another lesson, I have to restrain myself. So there's, there's that you have to

 

Terry  31:53

find the rules. Yeah, you're really can't be rules. It just kind of has to be a guideline thing. But yeah, you'll have that with my mom. It's like, Alright, yeah. Yeah. With my mom and with my sister and her kids. And mom tells me Oh, my gosh, I wasn't supposed to say this. Well, right. Well, no, you're supposed to observe, you're the grandparent, you're the fun one quit. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  32:15

I got that straight right from the beginning, because I had a friend of mine was a little older. And if you can believe this, the his kids actually made like a little book for you know, I guess the grandpa playbook of things that what they could do. I have a three ring binder with all and I you know, when before when my kids got pregnant, I said, Look, there's no rules. I'm gonna spoil these kids. And then I'm going to bring them back. And I'm gonna let you deal with the homework after the regulations. And yeah, you know, one of my, probably one of the the pinnacle of grandparenting is I went and got there. One of the little girls, and then there were two friends and we went had pizza. We went to the five below. And so it's about nine o'clock, and we're going home and one of them nice, go the bathroom, we pull over to the convenience store and want one of the non grandkids was like, Oh, can we have a soda? I'm like, heck yeah, get your soda, big red and get a cup of candy bars. Oh, they were so loaded up. By the time that we got last time I got them home and I said I am out of here. I can deal with them again. That's the fun about being a grandparent is you know, really no rules,

 

Terry  33:36

rite of passage. It really a rite

 

Suzette  33:38

of passage. You know, you're gonna find that you light up when you just hear them. And it's an exciting time. I have to tell you, it's I look forward to my business. I'll actually be going there in a week. I'll be heading out there and I'm excited. You know, I get to watch her she ice skates. And so I get to watch her in competition. My very first time seeing her. I would always see it when my daughter would record it. Right. Right. But my very first time being there. Last year, I went to go watch her. Oh, I just start crying as soon as she came off to me. For some reason that ice rink seemed so big compared to my little granddaughter coming on there. And I was just so proud of her. Oh,

 

Terry  34:19

I can't wait. I really I can't I can but I can't.

 

Roy Barker  34:25

We're gonna have fun. So I think what, uh, what I was gonna ask too is how long does it take you to produce one of these books?

 

Suzette  34:35

Okay, so we actually published one in the first book in December of 2020. Right? Well, seven months later, we published the second book, but it's a little unique in the sense that we had so much passion towards this project. This was all one book, we had to split it into two. And so we had to, you know, format it a little differently. So So, we actually have started on Book Three, because we didn't realize, but one was to, you know, wanted to. And so it's been a little different, I think. So the first one, I'd say probably six months of the writing, we're, we're okay, this is it. This is good. We got it. And then getting with the illustrator, I don't know, that felt like it took a year for just because the first book, you know, we had to get the characters, we had to set them first. Yeah. So it was easy to transition into book two. So we'll see. I think Book Three will be our true, I think, you know, identify your own how long but it was, I'd say seven months to a year, depending on, you know, what it is and how you're creating it. Yeah.

 

Terry  35:47

And is it a full picture book? I mean, there there are words. I mean, it's not just the illustrations.

 

Suzette  35:54

Yeah. So let me give you our dedication, we have these hummingbirds that we have throughout the book. And it's kind of something fun for the kids to count how many you know, having birds there are behind them. Okay. Okay. So like, here's the characters. And so yeah, but no, it's a complete picture book. And what we another thing that we did, and this is probably from my experience, you know, with my day job, is, I wanted to have a lot of questions, too, because I wanted it to be an experience, right? So I have questions in it so that you can interact with each other, you know, it's like, what, what do you call your grandma, you know, who do you like to spend time? What are some of the questions, and so that it just gets that, you know, relationship there to build that. So that that's my hope, too, is that they're, you know, engaging while they're in this book. And then at the last page here, we added here's like, you know, so what, what do you appreciate about your, your, your brand, and then they we have the children? You know, right in there?

 

Terry  36:51

Oh, I love that.

 

Suzette  36:54

Yeah. And that's what like my granddaughter, one with hers. And so I have this, to see this. So she wrote here. Yeah, she likes playtime with me. And she did that and said, My daughter actually told me she's like, Oh, you know, the book that she wrote in it's, it's, it's not here? And I said, No, because that was my book, I had to write that for me.

 

Terry  37:17

That's a nice

 

Roy Barker  37:18

idea to put, because as you release these and you know, out in time, then there'll be, I guess there'll be at different stages in their life and be able to take, you know, yeah, yes, I'd say taking notes, but they'll be able to, you know, write down their thoughts and memories at that point in time, which over, you know, five or six years may change a lot.

 

Suzette  37:41

Absolutely. That is a great idea. And we did that in Book Two. We did that in Book Two also. So that's kind of a staple of what we're looking to do is Yeah, to keep that in there.

 

Roy Barker  37:51

So are there some things like that? course, since one and two were basically written together is like, when you when you started on three? Are there other adjustments that you felt like you needed to make? Or is it pretty much the same format? Um,

 

Suzette  38:07

we actually made some adjustments in to even, you know, in our in our formatting a little bit, but in three, yes, I think that we were learning as we go on, you know, kind of the structure, I tend to writing structure as what we're learning that to kind of keep it a staple, but we're growing, you can see, I think you can see hopefully, within the writing.

 

Roy Barker  38:30

Yeah. So how do you have like a whole topic list that you've already got written down?

 

Suzette  38:36

We do. So there's, third one is actually about vacations. So imagine we have six characters. So there's different vacations, and we want to introduce other. So in Book Two, you start to see, you know, a couple of grandfathers in there as well. So we want to introduce you know, them great grandparents also. So we want to definitely in our series, we have, you know, a lot of opportunity for this series to touch on a lot of things. And one thing I do want to touch even though, you know, a lot of books talk about, you know, illnesses or death. I do want to touch on it. But what I learned with my own mother is she had cancer for 10 years. And she had a few years before that, and then it came back for 10 years. But what I learned through this is that she was living with it. Yeah, you know, so it wasn't so much about her dying over the last 10 years. It was really living with it and got to see how she you know, so those are some of the things that we want to talk about, because there's so many we can talk about, you know, diabetes, stroke, you know, those that have overcome that because there's actually one of the characters in the grants is, is a stroke survivor. So I so there's different things that I do want to talk to you but I want to make it so that it's something that people are living with because it's natural, and it's in their children's or grandchildren's daily lives, of how they interact with them.

 

Roy Barker  39:57

No, that's a good viewpoint to put it in and If you do if you decide to do traumatize Granny, maybe you could do charity could help you with that

 

Terry  40:05

with that poster. Well talk to me now talk to me, at the end of January.

 

Roy Barker  40:16

Right more to say we're so excited, got make space over here, so we can get that baby a bed,

 

Terry  40:23

a new room.

 

Roy Barker  40:26

We're gonna set up an Aquarius, baby. I want to set up the little zip line out off the back deck that she can

 

Terry  40:33

zip line down.

 

Roy Barker  40:35

I've got it all figured out. We're gonna have a lot of fun. I can't. You are. I love that. Well, we appreciate you taking time out of your day to be with us for sure. Any other last minute advice you want to throw out there for grantees or grantees to be?

 

Terry  40:50

or non us? or non us? Yeah, you know,

 

Suzette  40:54

I'd say that just you being used what you're offering. And that's what you know, makes that experience for the grandchild to be so excited to spend time with you and you know, want to see you. So just be you.

 

Roy Barker  41:08

That's good advice. So is there something that you do deer in your daily life? Is there a habit or an app or a tool, something that you use, that really adds a lot of value to your day?

 

Suzette  41:22

An app or something that I use, you know, I'd have to say, with my job, they're so interactive with us that we have different health and wellness coaches. So there's some different things like you have an opportunity to do a stretch throughout the day, or you have an opportunity to do meditation, you know, I'm often often in the mornings I I'm trying to get better at this is really, you know, showing gratitude to things and opening my day. So that can set that basis of, you know, the rest of my day, the foundation for my day.

 

Roy Barker  42:00

That's a huge theme

 

Terry  42:02

from a lot of our speakers is being grateful. And what the speaking of that, we started doing well I've done a couple of these. It's called laughter yoga. Online. Oh my gosh, so fun. And it's not you know, just a, it's not a bunch of yoga, it's mostly about laughter and you kind of go into it thinking, Oh my gosh, these guys are all crazy, because they're just going you know, and then everybody hears everybody else, and all their different laughters. And that just is contagious. And it just keeps going. And it really helps start your day. So check out I love that. Yes. Awesome.

 

Suzette  42:39

So they that was one of the things recently last week that somebody touched on from one of the wellness things, but I didn't get to so it is on my list to try. So I love that you brought that up.

 

Terry  42:49

Yeah, what is Kathy Nesbitt is her name Yeah, okay, we just spoke to her we've had her on before

 

Roy Barker  42:55

and but she was going over a little more in depth. Like, you know, like tracing your fingers like I don't remember breathing in on one laughing on the it's a whole thing it and it's funny

 

Terry  43:06

touches upon the meridians and all of that stuff, too. But

 

Roy Barker  43:10

Terry tried it one day and she was over across the room. And I was working. And I start hearing all this laughing and carrying on and I start laughing at my desk. I wasn't even participating. started laughing I had to get up and go check it out. So

 

Terry  43:25

he has a great laugh a great belly laugh a mean, when he laughs from his early It is something so that just started a whole nother thing that was contagious. Yeah. It's fun. I love that. Yeah, no, I'm really I'm really interested in checking that out. Yeah, it's fun.

 

Roy Barker  43:42

All right. Well, we appreciate it. So tell everybody again, what is the name of the series of the books where they can reach out and get them? And if somebody wanted to make contact with you, how could they do that?

 

43:54

Yeah, thank you. So The Grands, The Modern Da Grandparent is our series. And the brands The Race is book one. And then We Have Time with My Grand is Book Two. And they both can be found on Amazon. And actually this the first book can actually be found wherever books are sold online right now. So awesome. Yeah, and we can you can follow us on Instagram at the Grand MDG. And actually do have I think a video there of me having the wig and pulling that off. So yeah, check it out

 

Roy Barker  44:27

Check it out. I missed that. Yeah.

 

Suzette  44:32

And then the Facebook page is The Grands Modern Day Grandparent.

 

Roy Barker  44:37

Okay, awesome. Well, y'all go check it out. It's an awesome book. I've just been thumbing through it here, all the pictures and they're the pig in that I think that's the most interesting part of this is that these are representative of the women that you actually see out in the community. They're all young, they're going, you know, to this race. And then the grandkids are there holding up signs, you know, cheering them on. So I think that's awesome to, you know, give a new perspective. And you know, it's very timely for Terry. We're going to get her to read it so that she can get through this rough time in her life. And we can get to the get to the fun part.

 

Terry  45:18

All right, good. Thanks, Suzette. It's been great. Thank you.

 

Roy Barker  45:21

All right. Well, that's gonna do it for another episode of education. Of course, I'm

 

Terry  45:25

Roy Terry,

 

Roy Barker  45:26

you can find us at www.ageucational.com we're on all the major podcast platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify, for not a one that you listen to please reach out, we'd be glad to add it make your listening easier. Also, we're on all the major social media platforms probably hang out a little bit more on Instagram. So get over there interact with us, we'd love to hear from you. Also, a video of this interview will go up on our YouTube channel. Go over there and check out all of our past episodes as well. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

FB - The Grands: Modern Day Grandparent

IG - @thegrandsmdg

www.AGEUcational.com

Pivoting to Activity and Helping Others, Its Never Too Late with Jan Malloch

And I realized there was a huge, huge gap in the market because there weren't personal trainers who are older, who could, you know, really empathize and whatnot with older men and women for that matter. Because, you know, you'll find older people will go to a personal trainer, and they'll be in their 20s, maybe their 30s.

About Jan

I'm a Fitness and Lifestyle Transformation coach for professional women over 50.

I totally transformed my life at 62. I lost weight and qualified as a personal trainer specializing in helping older women to be fitter.

Prior to this change, I never fully appreciated the importance of health and fitness, especially as you get older.

I worked at a desk job, and was sedentary most of the time. Doing any form of physical exercise never entered my mind. I then came to the stark realization that my poor eating habits and lack of mobility were killing me.

That's when I made the decision to do something about my life. The thought of ending up in a care home, sitting in the corner dribbling and being immobile really scared me.

Unlike the vast majority of personal trainers, I know exactly how it feels to struggle to lose weight and how exhausting it is to be unfit.

I also know how it feels to be older! All of these experiences have given me a much better understanding and empathy with my clients. I can personally relate to all of the women I work with - and they in turn relate to me.

Let me ask you...do you relate to any of the following?

Perhaps, as an older woman, you focus too much of your time on your work and families, to the detriment of your own health and well-being.

Returning from work after a hectic and stressful day, you are then faced with trying to sort out the problems that your husband and kids are going through.

A feeling of exhaustion and overwhelm often results in reaching for that wine bottle and ordering a takeout meal - just to escape from the havoc that is enveloping you.

Much of the evening is spent in front of the TV. You continually make poor lifestyle choices regards your health, which leads to weight gain, lethargy and fatigue.

And the more weight you put on, the more fatigued and stressed you become.

My role is to stop this vicious cycle. I help older women to appreciate the critical importance of prioritizing their own health and fitness so that they can enjoy a dramatically improved healthy quality of life.

www.janmalloch.com

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Pivoting to Activity and Helping Others, Its Never Too Late with Jan Malloch

Sun, 6/27 1:04PM • 48:32

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, eating, thought, personal trainer, age, day, lose, whatnot, job, weight, minutes, terry, mindset, roy, achieve, exercise, good, women, customer service agent, feel

SPEAKERS

Jan, Terry, Roy Barker

 

Roy Barker  00:08

Hello, and welcome to another episode of AGEucational This is Roy, this is Terry. So we're a podcast that we try to present a lot of different spends on the aging process things for the aging, not only I'll speak for myself, I'm going through the aging process Terry, she is timeless, has an aged in the last 25 years, so

 

Terry  00:28

I can.

 

Roy Barker  00:30

But also, you know, we, we deal with our parents, they have different issues, Terry unfortunately lost her father to Alzheimer's a few years back. So but we're getting into that point that our parents need a little bit more help and trying to have some guidance, before we get into crisis situations trying to avert that. And also we have guests. So typically for our new listeners, Tuesdays, we release an episode, where we have a guest could be a professional that deals with aging, it could be somebody that's gone through the process or going through something specific. And then on Thursdays, our episodes are more specifically for our journey, some things we're seeing. And then also, we've been heavily focused on the dementia or Alzheimer's, just bring in some new information as it's unfolding. But anyway, today, we've got an awesome guest, Jan, I'm gonna let Terry introduce you, and then we'll get to it.

 

Terry  01:28

Jan Malloch is a fitness and lifestyle transformation coach for professional women over 50, who totally transformed her life at 62. She lost weight and qualified as a personal trainer specializing in helping older women to be fitter. And also, she worked at a desk job and was very sedentary most of the time. So Jan, I'm gonna let you talk a little bit about that. Brittany, tell us a little bit about your background. How you came to this point,

 

Jan  02:02

right? Well, actually, to be honest, I've had a number of careers in my life. So I'm just going to go and let's run through some of these because, you know, it's been quite quite a chasm, you know, of, you know, changes and all the rest. But so anyway, when I went to university, and then I went into the civil service. So basically my job, I worked in the Department of Employment, and I was just interviewing people all day, you know, so that was great. It was great fun. But again, obviously, I'm just sitting there at my office all day. In my 30s, I became a mother. So I was away from the, you know, the, the vocational job scene for a long time, went back in 1995, only to discover that suddenly, computers had invaded the workplace. So, and I had not got a clue, I had not got a clue. So I went back again, as just an interviewer, I didn't have to worry about working, you know, with a computer and let that and, and then they sent me on a word course and an Excel course, on how to use a computer. And I absolutely fell in love with it. And to cut a very long story short, I ended up becoming a computer engineer. Right. Wow. So that was quite a transformation. Because what happened was, I started building these computers in the house. And then I thought Whoa, light bulb went on. And this is going to be my career. This is what I want, you know. So I actually started qualifying I got various qualifications in it. But the interesting thing is I was a woman, aged 42 trying to get into it. And you know what, when the training people were saying to me, Oh, you mean, you want to learn how to type? I said, No, no, no, I want to be a computer engineer. And I tell you, it took a lot of me trying to sell myself before they would even accept we own the course, you know, I could throw money at them, that wasn't going to change their mind. They just wanted to make sure that I was really genuinely wanting to do this. So anyway, at the end of the day, but I did become a Microsoft Certified systems engineer. And I went into a local company that pretty well the largest employer in our in our area. And I thought, look, if I want to get into it, what to do is join that company, and then at least I can look at their notice boards and apply for any jobs. So I literally went in just as a customer service agent, absolutely hated. I hate working on the phone and selling things and all the rest of it. But I thought you know what, if I want to do this, but want to get a career in it, this is the only way I'm going to do it. And I tell you within two months, there was a vacancy on the board for a trainee net Works analyst. And I thought, brilliant I'm gonna apply for this. But of course, as you started reading down the job description and whatnot, it kept saying, Oh, well, you need a degree in computing, you need to have worked as a desktop support engineer for at least two years. And basically, let's face it reading in between the lines, you had to be a male 23 or 24. Right, right. So I thought, you know what, nothing to lose. Let me just apply. So anyway, at the end of the day, can other people had applied all guys all 2324 with computer degrees, and desktop experience, but it was me who got the job? And I remember, and I read the job, acceptance at least 30 times because I lived it. I just could not believe it. I thought, well, I'm 42, a female, and I've just got a man's job. Yeah, brilliant, you know. But the thing was, I asked the manager afterwards, I said, so why did you take me and not any of the other guys? He said, Well, you know, this is a trainee job, anybody can learn the techie stuff. But you have to be good with your customers. That's why we've taken you on to it meant that when I was out on the floor, the customer service agent was saying, You know what, I can't connect to the network. At least I could empathize with them and say, Oh, I know exactly what you mean. You need to be able to, you know, to speak to customers, you need to be able to see a screen and all the rest of that. So that was great. So I ended up I did that for about 10 years. And then I woke up one morning, I've always been into personal development, things like that. And I woke up one morning, this is back in 2008. And I looked across at my bookcase, and we had Tony Robbins sort of staring at me, and I thought, I want to be like Tony Robbins. So that meant finding out about neuro linguistic programming, finding out about hypnotherapy, learning how to be a public speaker. So literally, within a day, I resigned my job handed in my month's notice, cashed in my pension, and basically studied to be a hypnotherapist and NLP. Then, of course, as the years have progressed, I thought, you know what, that's great. I've got my mind adjusted, I'm helping people with their mind. But my physical fitness has to also come first. So I came a lot more sort of physically fit and whatnot. And I realized there was a huge, huge gap in the market, because there weren't personal trainers who are older, who could, you know, really empathize and whatnot with older men and women for that matter. Because, you know, you'll find older people will go to a personal trainer, and they'll be in their 20s, maybe their 30s. And they don't understand that as you get older, you begin to lose your balance. Obviously, your muscles aren't as good as they used to be your bones, you're worried about folding and things like that. Whereas I was able to actually empathize. And I knew exactly what that felt like. So that was quite a transition from certainly being a computer engineer, to now not fixing machines, but trying to fix people. That's what I'm doing. Oh my

 

Terry  08:33

gosh, that makes me tired. Just thinking about every. Yes, because I'm, I'm aging. I am aging no matter how timeless. He says I am. I mean, oh my gosh, what a lovely, incredible transformation you have. Yeah, learning all of that learning. I'm sure helps keep you young too. Oh, of course. Yes. I

 

Jan  08:59

mean, I feel that everybody's got to continually learn, you know, every day's a school day. That's right. Yeah. Oh, for sure.

 

Roy Barker  09:07

So you you mainly work with, I guess, men and women, but mostly women probably over 50 Is that correct?

 

Jan  09:17

Yeah, definitely women over 50 Yeah. Because obviously again, I can relate to women over 50 I mean, obviously, it doesn't matter whether you're a man or woman, you're you're both gonna, you know, are all gonna lose your muscle and you're going to lose bone and all the rest. But being a female, obviously, I can equate there. I'm certainly doing any one to one coaching is is definitely better.

 

Roy Barker  09:40

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, cuz I've been I've had trainers before and like you said, they're usually younger in good shape. And so, being older and out of shape, you know, they want to put you Well, I guess what I find is that sometimes, not just trainers, but sometimes you know, people that go through process. They have one process that they know. And they apply it to everybody, you know, whether you're 20 and in good shape or, you know, some other age that we won't mention and not as good as shape. And so I think that's a really value that you bring to the table is that, you know, since you've kind of been through this part of that process, is you can work with people of this age to stop where they're at, or where they need to be and not be like that. And then I'm sure that they are more comfortable with you. It's, it's always somebody that looks looks like yourself.

 

Jan  10:37

Yeah, yeah, yes. I mean, I've, you know, so many personal trainers are what I call, you know, the female version, or the Baywatch babes, you know, they're all very slim and slender, and they've got their ponytails and all the rest of it. And I think I cannot relate to that woman at all, you know. So I need somebody to be able to relate to. But the interesting thing is, I mean, I have my own personal trainer. But I just could not find anybody who was a female, and certainly nobody in my sort of age bracket. So I ended up and I still work with a guy, a guy from Spain, age 25, a power lifter, but we have built up a rapport, you know, so that works, you know, plus the fact he's worked with various age groups. So it's good he can, he knows that, what I would be capable of, and he'll give me challenges, but not make it impossible. That's the thing.

 

Roy Barker  11:38

Yeah. Because it's important to it's, well, it's important to have that comfort that we look alike. But I think it's also that connection. And the trust that, you know, you would have it that somebody has been through this, and you can kind of build up that rapport, that you're not gonna ask me to do something, that's, that's crazy. Yeah, then I'm gonna fail at is that, you know, you can help me and so I'm sure that, because that's one thing we always talk about when you, especially when you go select a new trainer or new program, really, whatever you're doing, if they don't ask you, your individual questions, you know, if they tried to push you into one plan fits all, red flag, but you also need to be comfortable with them. It's like there's multiple providers. And for you to get the very most out of it, especially in this realm is you have to have somebody that you're very comfortable with. And that's not exactly not asking too much, I don't think is that we, you know, sometimes we think, Oh, well, we just don't have any choices, or we don't want to look around. But it's it's great to find somebody that you're comfortable with.

 

Terry  12:47

Yes. Exactly. bedside manner huge. Yeah, everywhere. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  12:53

Yeah, because I had a guy that I trained with for a while that he was a nice guy, he came to the house. And he was one of these that, you know, if I, if I was on the phone talking, and I couldn't get right to the door, and he would just start banging on the door, he'd come to the window, he's like, I know you're in there, open this door. He never, he never let me slide. But he would ask me to do some challenging things. But you know what, I had that trust in him that he, he knew when to quit, and he knew when to tell me

 

Terry  13:21

go down just a little man's best interest at heart.

 

Roy Barker  13:25

So So what are you finding that? You know, the clients that come to you? They have just been sedentary? They haven't done much? Or are they making a switch to you know, because of your, your maturity in the space? rz? Are these lights very light? Yes. Are these like housewives that have not done much? Or maybe they had an office job and have said or, you know, I guess maybe the better way to say it? Are they beginners? Are they people who are kind of in the midst of this journey?

 

Jan  14:03

Um, most women who come to me are definitely their main goal is to lose weight, that that's it, you know, and they are often desk bound. They do have desktop, you know, desk, jobs, that sort of thing. And they are looking because they're looking more at the long term. They're saying, You know what, I need to do something now, because of the future. I don't know what I'm going to be like in the future. And really, it's a case of me, basically assuring them that what we do is I will give them a personalized plan, which will meet their abilities and their goals. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I certainly don't have one of these cookie cutter programs where I'm expecting everybody to be able to do 1000 jumping jacks in the next week, that's for sure. Yeah.

 

Terry  14:55

Well, and you, you, yourself. You started at 62 correct. Yeah, yeah. And you were able to lose some weight? What was that process like for you? And what was your turning point?

 

Jan  15:09

Well, the thing was with me, you know, funnily enough, I'd always sort of, I mean, up until in my 30s, I had always been, you know, a proper decent way if you like, but as the years have gone on, and before you know it, you put on weight without even realizing it, you know. So basically, what I did was, it was just a case of, but start eating more healthfully that that was it. And then, once I got, and the big difference was actually, once I started with a personal trainer, where I was doing consistently, you know, exercise all the time and whatnot. And I was getting more physically fit, I was building up muscle, which in turn was then building up my metabolism, which in turn was helping me burn more calories and whatnot. And the thing was, once I started this physical activity, I felt so much more confident in myself. And I think that's what made such a difference. But of course, now, because I've gone ahead to qualify as a personal trainer, I now have this label of being a personal trainer. So this is my identity now, so therefore, it's no difficulty keeping my weight down, because I know this is my identity. And this is who I am.

 

Terry  16:28

That's awesome.

 

Roy Barker  16:29

So when, when somebody comes to you brand new, what are some things that you do? I guess, to kind of feel them out to see where they're at in this journey? Or, you know, do you have kind of like some, I don't wanna call it a test. But do you have some things that you do? Just to kind of see, yeah, you know, what kind of endurance that they may have, if they can lift weights, things like that?

 

Jan  16:55

Yeah, I mean, first of all, everyone actually felt Well, I mean, obviously, they've got their medical forms to fill out, first of all, just to make sure you know, they are fit enough, you know, obviously, if they have any reservations, then I request, they go and see their doctor and all the rest of it, because we need the Okay, then they can do physical exercise. But I've also got a lifestyle questionnaire where they fill out, you know, what sort of things do they eat? What are their weaknesses, when it comes to what they eat? and what not. I want to know if they are actually already physically active, or is it a case of you haven't done any activity since you were at school or whatever? I then have four very, very basic assessment tests just to sort of see, you know, can they stand up and sit down? How many times can they do that, you know, from a chair in 30 seconds of certain thing. So it just gives me a much better idea for you know, where they're at at the moment, you know, and then I want to know, what they actually want to achieve at the end of the day. So that is when I then create their own workout plans. So whether they're one to one with me, or if it's online, it's all individualized for them.

 

Terry  18:08

Yeah, well, and that's what I was gonna say, I'm sure your pandemic probably boosted up all of your virtual training.

 

Jan  18:15

Oh, that's how we asked now, how'd you meet that challenge? Well, it was Judo funnily enough, Terry. When I went into personal training, the my plan, my business plan, if you like, was to be working in a gym for two years. And then I was going to go into the online world, because I suppose with my technical sort of background and whatnot, I much prefer, you know, the online sort of side of things. But as we know, two months in of working in a gym, and then suddenly the pandemic hit, gym was shut, that was it. So I had to really bring forward all my plans. And so I was actually sort of already ready for this. And to be honest, the pandemic is bad for some people, but for others, it's actually worked out really quite well for them. And that's, and I feel it's worked out quite well for me. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  19:10

Yeah. You know, and that's kind of we talk about that a lot. We sometimes have that survivor's guilt because it's been a it's really been good for us as made us slow down. We do a lot more together a lot more around the house. And you know, there's been so many people impacted that have been sick have lost loved ones, you know, we'd lost incomes and things like that definitely. You know, our hearts go out to them but it's you're right there's been a definite line with winners and losers and you know, we count ourselves as blessed that you know, nobody that we are really I think Terry's had a few high school friends and I had one he was very sick, but you know, nobody that's lost their Well, I think Terry may have had a couple that lost their lives, but just you know, nobody really close in our family, which Yeah, this guy Good. But that you know that you mentioned this earlier when this is kind of a good segue into this is that I think this is what's got. what got us more motivated to create this show. And when we started talking about this is that we want to age well, and I don't think we give this enough thought, you know, when you're in your 20s, and 30s, we feel like we're bulletproof. And we can drink, smoke, eat, do you know, whatever we want to do? And we're not really thinking about when you're 7080? Well, unfortunately, in my time in my life, you know, the 70s, and 80s are a lot closer. So you know, it makes you just think for a minute that I don't want to be a burden. And so if I go into that age at poor health, then it's only gonna go downhill from there. I'm now getting away. Yeah. So do you work with a lot of people that you know that that's kind of on, they're not only getting healthy for today, but kind of thinking about that aging process? maybe having an aging parent that they've seen struggle?

 

Jan  21:03

Um, yeah, I would say so. The thing is that, you know, obviously, Roy, and Terry, we live in this world at the moment where everybody wants things right now. And they don't tend to look at the future. But and this is what I try and encourage people to do, you know, say, right, okay, you're, you know, you feel you're okay, now, but what are you going to be like, in five years time? 10 years time, whatever. Now, let's think of just the simple things. Are you going to be able to put your coke on without needing somebody to help you? I mean, these are just daily activities that, you know, you think, oh, I'll be able to do this forever. But there's so many people who can't, that's something you know, so we really have to zero in on what we're going to be doing in the future. Yeah.

 

Terry  21:51

Yeah, I was gonna say, Oh, my God, just thinking about the buttoning part of it. Yeah, no, just little things like that just all add up. And of course, the, the, where the more we age, the more important it becomes, you don't really realize that until it's like, Oh, I got a pain right here. I didn't have before when I was younger.

 

Roy Barker  22:12

Yeah, yeah, you're not even though we're talking about, you know, it would be better if people that the earlier they start, the better off it is for sure. And try to keep that momentum and build good habits, because that's another bad thing. At this age. You know, some of these bad habits are ingrained. And they're much, much harder to break. But, you know, talking about later in life, or, you know, there are a lot of things like the chair aerobics and I thought it was interesting that you use that as kind of one of your assessments is how many times you can get up because there are people. I mean, there's gonna be people who, if they're aging, and not in great health, I mean, maybe two or three times might be kind of their limit. That's right. That's the great thing is is, you know, talk to us about things that we can do, or programs that you could design for people in that situation.

 

Jan  23:05

Right. Well, I mean, obviously, the thing is that, the important thing is you're always moving. That's it. I mean, the thing is, you can be sitting watching TV, and we can still sit and sort of shrug your shoulders, move your shoulders about things like that. You don't have to go and run tomorrow. And that's for sure. But the thing is every sort of trying you know, even if you set your your fancy smartwatch or something like that, every 15 minutes to get up out of your seat and just walk around the room that age your mobility. That's the thing is that once you're over 50, there are so many different stages that people can be at. And we we know that I've been there can be weightlifters, 60 or 70. Right. But there can be people at 60 or 70, you literally find it difficult even just to stand up, you know, this is the thing. So that's why it's so important. But generally just do what you can, you know, move and keep moving. That's the important thing. I mean, we know that the government, for instance, outlines that we should be doing 150 minutes of exercise a week. All right. And it doesn't matter whether you're at 80 or 108. It's still 150 minutes a week. And you know, a lot of people might think, Wow, that's a lot. That's two and a half hours a week. Well, let's break this down half an hour a day, right. And that doesn't have to be half an hour, all in a wonder. We can do 10 minutes, 10 minutes in 10 minutes. And you know what the benefits you're going to derive from that. Think about that. You know, if I spend half an hour a day, being a bit more mobile, that means or it could mean in 1020 years time, I'm not going to be sitting in a corner in a care home, not being able to move that The difference.

 

Roy Barker  25:01

And if I'm not wrong, isn't there growing evidence that doing it 10 minutes three times a day may provide you a little bit more benefit than trying to do it. 30 minutes. And the other thing about that, too, I feel like if I do something, smaller segments through the day, I'm more likely to accomplish it, where if I'm waiting, you know, for six o'clock at night and thinking, I'm gonna go to the gym for an hour, o'clock rolls around, and then something happened and you're running late, or it's like, I had a bad day, I can't even get out. You know, it's like, you can always think of all these excuses.

 

Jan  25:35

Well, the thing is, Roy, that there is so much research going on, you know about Sport and Exercise, whatnot. And they're coming out with new findings all the time. I mean, remember, you know, they would say, Oh, you have to do 10,000 steps a day to stay healthy. But they come out with research now that if you do 10 minutes of a brisk walk, that equates to that, you know, so it's not I mean, if you're short of time, that is not an excuse. Yeah, you can achieve a lot in a short amount of time.

 

Roy Barker  26:07

Yeah, I've told this story a couple times, I'm sure the audience is going to be like, Oh, my God, we don't want to hear this again. But I had the fancy, I had the fancy watch that belongs with the phone, I'm not going to call their name out, but think would sink in and had some issues. And so I went back to a Fitbit, I'd had it previous to the fancy watch. And then I didn't really like fancy watch, I didn't use all the stuff. But anyway, this has a little reminder of every hour to get 250 steps in, which has been great for me, I don't do it as much as I should. But I really work on, you know, trying to get up and I can walk through the house, I don't have to get out. You know, it's, it's extremely hot right now where we're at. So, you know, during the day, when you're all clean, and you don't want to get out and break the sweat, and then have to come back and sit down and work. But you know, just walking around the house inside, I can achieve that. 250 stacks. Very simple, very simple. So you know, kind of like, what I say is that, now, if I can get to the gym, at five or six o'clock, I've already got like 2500 steps banked up, you know, from walk, I mean, I'm like halfway to, you know, we're on, I'd try to 10 1000s a little bit much for me, most days, I try to do, you know, five or six. And I'm very happy with that. So anyway, just those little efforts through the day really pushed me, you know, to be in halfway to my goal before I even have to.

 

Terry  27:39

Exactly, exactly. And we go ahead, I'm sorry,

 

Jan  27:44

sorry, I was just gonna say I mean, as Roy was saying, Just little things can make all the difference. I mean, you know, and they'll tell you, you know, when you're parking your car, just park a little bit further away from the store and all that and you know what, it actually does add up. And, you know, smartwatches, whatever they say about them. But you know, the best way of progress is to be able to monitor yourself your own progress. That's what it is. And if you can see the numbers going up, and you can say, Wow, compared to last week, look how much I've achieved. So you have that sense of achievement, and get more confident. And the more you achieve, the more you want to achieve.

 

Terry  28:25

Right? Yeah, it's all about those smaller goals and making better hat better habits long term. It just it helps if you can see your the results of what you're doing. It makes a big difference. And

 

Roy Barker  28:39

yeah, we'd live in an awesome time. Because, you know, when I was growing up when you were 6065 I mean, they were some people were literally literally chair bound and they just pants Yeah, there just wasn't much they could do. But now, you know, we see people living into their 80s and 90s who are very active, very healthy. And we've got you know, the internet is a nice thing, but we have a lot of affordable instruments that we can use at home you know, depending on what you want to accomplish. But you know one thing I've got that again, I don't use as much as I should but I got one it's the the band that not a band but a strap like a TX something or other. Yeah. Anyway, I just have it hanging over here. So you know, sometimes in between calls, I just get up go do a little bit. They are brilliant. Yes. Absolutely amazing. Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I don't even use them, you can get down on the floor and do a lot with your legs with them as well. But they're, you know, it's a versatile thing to have around. I don't have to put out a lot of effort, but I can at least use that. I guess my body weight resistance and you know, get some upper arm stuff in during the day. So again, I think this is an awesome time that we live in so much at our disposal to help us out if we just take advantage of that.

 

Jan  29:59

Well, this is it. We have to grasp the opportunity, we have to sort of think Hold on, these things are available, you know, so we really want to take advantage of these things. Exactly.

 

Roy Barker  30:11

Yeah. And the So do you have any good shining examples of some people, and you don't have to call their name, of course, but that some people that have come to you in really poor shape that you've been able to, you know, work with to, you know, maybe help their balance or their mobility a lot more?

 

Jan  30:30

Oh, loads, I mean, the thing is that, it's funny, because when they come to me, first of all, you know, will do their assessment and all that, and they really can't achieve very much. And often they feel they probably won't be able to achieve very much. So a lot of it is mindset, that's the thing. It's a case of persuading them. Yes. I, you know, you might not be able to see your potential, but I can see your potential, you know, and, I mean, for instance, if it was a woman I was working with, and I said, You know, I mean, I laughed about jumping jacks, but there's nothing wrong with an 18 year old doing jumping jacks, they are perfectly capable of doing them. If they put their mind to it. That's the thing. And you know, she just, Oh, no, I can't do that. I can't do that, you know, but now, I mean, I can get her doing those as part of regular part of her workout. And she says, You know what, it's the jumping jacks, that actually made me really feel great after my session with you. So it's funny how your mind often tells you, I cannot do this. And sometimes you need somebody else to say, Yes, you can. Oh, yeah,

 

Terry  31:37

you need that in somebody to help you quell your inner critic, because that exact right there is just, oh,

 

Roy Barker  31:44

yeah, you can't discount having the accountability partner. And that's kind of like the guy that I trained with, even though he was good at designing things for me to do. You know, the other thing I'll say is that I wouldn't pace my personal opinion is I wouldn't pay somebody to stand in a gym and count reps for me on a machine, you know, and I've seen that a lot. And it kind of makes me snicker. But like my guy. He would, you know, he designed all these things he had quirky, like a piano Doc, a half ball with a platform, and you could stand on the ball sometimes. That's right. Yeah. But you know, he was always like, trying to work on the core, as well as the extremities. But the accountability is what he, I think that he provided me the most is that, you know, you had to show up, and then also that encouragement, like the days when I'd be like, Oh, I can't take it, you know, I'm done. He'd be like, Nah, come on, you're making good progress. let you know that he could remind you where you were, you know, two, three months ago, and how much progress? No, I don't feel it. So I think that's a great part of that

 

Jan  32:48

not, that's actually one thing. I mean, I have my 15 week online program for women, you know, too. And so we focus on mindset, losing weight, and you know, being more physically active. Now, what I'll do is I will give them workout programs, no watch videos, do it. Okay, I'm not there to count up to 10, or whatever. But that that is really what a personal trainer does. But what I do is I offer the accountability at the end of the week, where we talk on zoom or whatever, and I can see, look, how are you progressing? Have you got any problems? Do you feel we have to adjust the program or something like that? So what they'll sort of think, Oh, I better do these two workouts, because John's gonna check up on me on Sunday, you know?

 

Roy Barker  33:35

Yeah, yeah. When Jan calls me has put my cigarette down and had my beer camera.

 

Terry  33:41

It's all in mom's checking in. Oh, my God. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  33:48

Let's talk about that for a minute to the mindset. Because, you know, as I said, in the intro, when we first started this, it was a lot about what we ate and our diet and trying to get this dialed in, and exercise. You know, no, you know, my opinion is, you can lose weight without the exercise, but the exercise is what makes me feel good and feel healthy. When I'm feeling good and feeling healthy, I tend to eat better, like when I'm not losing, then it's easier to eat bad. So But anyway, so we've kind of made that progression. But, you know, now we've really gotten into this mindset, because we want to make sustainable changes. We want to make incremental changes that we can, you know, not like make these big, sweeping things like that are harder to deal with, because there's such a big change, but just the little bitty things every day add up, but we've got to have the right mindset for that. And so, that's a big part of what you can provide as well as you know, that encouragement, but also helping people change that. Maybe negative. I don't know what what are, what do you say? Well, I

 

Jan  34:57

mean, the thing is, I mean, obviously I'll speak to a lot of people And they'll say, Oh, the diet I was on, it doesn't work. Because you know, I mean, it worked at the time. But you know, when I came off it, then I just put the weight back on. And I'll just tell them, that's because you have not changed your actual habits, right? That's what has to change. If you rather than setting long term goals, let's set daily goals, you know, and say, Look, okay, well, today, I'm going to make sure I have five portions of vegetables or whatever. And it's little process goals that make all the difference. And even as you were saying, ROI, once you start exercising, you feel so much better. And then you sort of think, well, let's start eating better, then. Yeah. So it's it, it is, it's just a very small changes that can lead to huge, huge changes.

 

Terry  35:51

For every age. Yeah, across the board, right?

 

Roy Barker  35:55

Yeah. And I was just gonna ask, do you feel that? Is it harder to teach an old dog new tricks? Or? Or is it you know, if people show up and they've got the right mindset? Is it pretty easy to engage and get them to make some changes?

 

Jan  36:10

Well, this is it, there are probably a lot of people out there who are just far too set in their ways. You know, they'll say, no, sorry, you know, I'm 65, I'm 70. I'm too old to do this, that the next thing, and, okay, you can try and sort of, you know, help them see the benefits and all that. But there are some who are just totally stubborn, they are not going to do anything, you know, whereas there are a lot of others who are very open to suggestions for any help they can get. And these are really the people I work with, there's no point in trying to, you know, deal with somebody who just doesn't want to change it, you know, because you yourself have to want to change. And do you know, I also make sure that when I take on new clients, that it's they who want to change? I'm not really wanting anybody who said, Oh, well, my doctor told me I have to lose weight, right? That's not really gonna work, because they need themselves to know that they want to lose weight.

 

Terry  37:10

Well, and they have different issues. I mean, some some of them have the type two diabetes, some of them have just different issues that they need to work on as well. So do you approach it? I guess you would approach it? It's just customizable. Yeah.

 

Jan  37:29

Oh, it totally, totally. That's the thing is I say, I mean, what I would I could do, I suppose in theory, I could just churn out courses, you know, $37 courses, and it would be totally cookie cutter. And people either they liked it, or they didn't, you know what, I wouldn't make any transformations, you know, they wouldn't change, they would just be getting more of the same information they've always had. So it's all about working with people as individuals, and basically adjusting it to what they can do and what they need to do. That's the thing, you know, because, I mean, obviously, you have people who I mean, I actually have a few people who, because they are overweight, they, you know, their knees are really sore, you know. So what you have to do is you have to adjust the exercise program, you know, to suit them. Yeah.

 

Roy Barker  38:21

Yeah, like that. That's good to hear. Because like I said earlier, we always recommend that, you know, if you somebody that you're thinking about working with, if they've like, I've got a plan that's worked for, you know, other people, here it is, it's a red flag. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying it's a red flag for me is I need, I want to make sure that you have that engagement. You're asking me my questions, like, you know, do you even like to run you know, because I don't mind walking, I don't mind lifting weights, but I don't want to run and you know, my thing my motto for most of my life has been in I played sports where I had to, but as an adult, I'm like, you know, when I drive down the road, and I see a guy running that smile, and I might think about taking it up, but you know, most of them are usually in agony.

 

Terry  39:08

You know, we don't know. But uh,

 

Roy Barker  39:11

yeah, I think it's so important to inexpensively as we age because I don't want to generalize, but I'm gonna say 20s 30s, maybe into your 40s it's probably pretty generic, with some outliers. But when you get to the, you know, the 50s 60s and 70s bunch, everybody is so different, not only in where they're at, but also the ailments, afflictions, you know, things exactly, yeah. Yeah.

 

Terry  39:38

Yeah. The neuro. Yeah. Because you could have the neurological issues. You could have, you know, the movement in Parkinson's or anything like Do you have any? Do you have any people that you work with that have certain issues that they're wanting to deal with or head off or any any specific? Well, I

 

Jan  39:57

mean, certainly a lot of my clients have already Have you been diagnosed as diabetic? Yeah. So, you know, so obviously, you are but again, you're really just dealing with trying to get their weight down, you know, where they're eating, you know, far more healthfully? And things like this. I mean, that's one thing I go do, I don't have a diet plan is such I mean, nobody follows a particular diet plan, because it's all about changing your habits. That's the thing, you know. So there's no point in saying to people they have to chicken all day, if they don't like chicken. That's right. So they really have to what I try and get them in more into the way of having a better idea of the calorie effects or content foods and things like that. And also get acquainted with portion sizes. Because as you know, in the 70s, you know, I'm talking about in the 1970s. portion sizes were very, very much smaller than they are now. No, I mean, it used to be you go off to a restaurant, and you get this huge, huge portion, and think, Oh, this is a treat, because I'm out in a restaurant. But now, these are just the normal amounts of food that people are eating at home. Yeah,

 

Roy Barker  41:11

yeah, it's, it's crazy. And I think that, to me, that's the very first easy step on the nutritional side is if you just start reading labels, because there are things that you've just grown up eating that you don't realize, you know, like, for me being a diabetic, how many carbs are in that, but then also strategically, eating like, you know, like, I try to be at 40 to 60 carbs a day is kind of where my limit is, and which is fine, but I can't eat 60 for dinner, you know, and then go to bed, you have to, yeah, it gets it gets complicated, because then you can eat some with fiber that releases slower. And, you know, there's all these little things, but my thing is just start by reading labels and seeing what's hidden. The other thing that I found is salt. You know, this this, yeah, back to getting away from processed foods. Because whenever you're reading something on a bag, it's probably been processed, and it's probably gonna have a lot of salt in it.

 

Jan  42:11

Exactly. Yeah. I mean, when you think on it, there's so much so called food nowadays that really isn't for you. You know, the thing is that during the processing, thing, that I mean, they've lost all their vitamins and minerals, oh, their goodness. And then of course, these manufacturers then have to put all these vitamins back in. And then on the marketing side, then they go and say with added vitamins and overspent and everybody thinks, Oh, this is healthy. I'm gonna find this.

 

Terry  42:42

Yes. Yeah. That's so true. Oh, my gosh. Well,

 

Roy Barker  42:46

Jan, is there anything else? Any other thoughts you want to leave us with? Before we wrap up?

 

Jan  42:52

I think really, it's a case of I don't think it matters, what age you are, you can make major changes in your life, you know, and they don't have to be huge changes, just small ones can make all the difference, you know. So as well as eating healthily, moving, trying to keep your mind active all the time, you know, look at different things. I mean, little hobbies, you can maybe start up or whatever, there's always opportunities to learn more stuff. And those are the three things healthy eating, exercise and keeping your mind active.

 

Roy Barker  43:27

Oh, yeah, there's a good book, it's been a while since it came out. It's called the slight edge. And there's some other books that are based on the same principle. But what this guy talks about is that these little bitty things that people do, that we don't see that become successful, and it kind of translates into these smaller changes, but consistently doing it every day. Yeah, you know, he was like, you know, the baseball player, you know, in practice, you hit so many baseballs or they get so many cuts added. And then, but he said, the guy that goes to the batting cage after practice, and hits like 500 balls every day, if he went one day and hit 500 extra balls, you're not going to see much change in his work. But if he goes his 500 balls every day for six months, for a year, now, all of a sudden, you start seeing that incremental change, because of all this, you know, the, I guess the smaller steps that he has been taking that are extra, yes. You know, kind of the same thing is like he said, you can look at it two ways, like if you are healthy and you go out and eat a Big Mac, probably not going to hurt you that much. Now, if you go out and start eating one every day, then after some period of time, you're going to see the effect and vice versa. If you eat a Big Mac every day and you quit one day, you're not gonna see much change if you just keep eating. So, you know, it's just that those little bitty things that we can do daily in?

 

Jan  45:01

I think this is this is the thing about daily because you know, people will often ask how long does it change? Uh huh. You know, how long does it take to change a habit? And they've come away with various sort of ideas and whatnot. And for instance, the 21 days, they reckon you can change your habit. But you're not gonna change your habit if you only do it once in those 21 days, right. But it's not the amount of time it's the number of times you do it. That's the important thing.

 

Roy Barker  45:28

Yeah, right. All right. Well, that's good advice. Jan, we certainly appreciate it. Is there a tool or a habit? Is there something that you do in your daily life, that really adds a lot of value?

 

Jan  45:42

I think really, when I get up in the morning, you, you want to look on the positive side, that's basically because, you know, you make your own reality, you know, during the day, you know, and really think, right, what am I going to achieve today can just be a small thing, like, I'm going to clean out a drawer in my kitchen or something like that, but achieved something and you feel that you've achieved something and you want to achieve more, and it makes you feel great. Yeah, I love being able to tick off from my list, I

 

Terry  46:16

love being able to mark through that line. Because, you know, so many times I'm just like, going on and on and on just running around in circles. I'm like, days ended what's happened. I was busy.

 

Roy Barker  46:29

Alright, what tell people who do you like to work with? How can you help them? And of course, how can they reach out and get a hold of you?

 

Jan  46:37

Okay, I'm certainly I love to work with women over the age of 50. I mean, I'm saying 50. If you're 40. And you're desperately wanting to measure, by all means, let me know, you know, but certainly, it's certainly the older women that I tend to deal with. And they are professional women who are probably sitting in a desk job a lot of the time or they've retired from having quite a high stressful job and whatnot. These are definitely the people I want to work with. And, as I said, my programs are all individualized for everybody. So your best bet probably is to get a hold, you know, see me see my website. And that is janmalloch.com. That is where you're going to see me. And, again, if you want to go onto Google, just type in Jan Malloch, and you'll see loads of me around.

 

Terry  47:32

And Malik is ma LL. O ch. That said,

 

Roy Barker  47:38

yeah, we will include all that in the show notes. But that's the that is worth mentioning the spelling there. All right, well, good enough. Well, thanks a lot. Well, that's gonna do it for another episode of feeding fatty Of course. I am your host, Roy. I'm sorry. that's gonna do it for another. Oh my gosh, educational. Now, you're good. You're good. Oh my gosh, losing my mind. You can find us of [email protected] we're on all the major podcast platforms, Google, Stitcher, Spotify. It's and we also want all major social media platforms we spend most of our time probably on Instagram. So please go check us out and a video of this interview will go up on YouTube when the episode goes live. So again, thank you for your time. Take care of yourself and age healthy.

 

Terry  48:29

Thanks, Jen.

www.janmalloch.com

www.ageucational.com

Another Great Reason to Control Chronic Stress, It's Now Linked To Alzheimer's with Terry and Roy

June is Alzheimer's and brain awareness month. Chronic stress can wreak havoc with our bodies. Stress lowers our immunity, drivers up blood glucose levels, blood pressure, and now Alzheimer's is also known as Type 3 diabetes. chronic stress does affect many biological pathways within our body. The time to lower your stress is now before the damage becomes irreversible.

About AGEUcational Podcast

AGEUcational.com is dedicated to AGEUcating seniors and their families by providing quality information and education content on all aspects of aging and how to age better. Our contributors use their aggregated 80 years of experience in the senior living industry and the field gerontology to develop relevant and helpful content. AGEUcational.com will focus on all aspects of aging and how to age better.

As we live longer our wants and needs change. It’s important to stay informed about changes and new developments in order to continue living the best life possible. It is AGEUcational.com’s goal to help you thrive during the aging process, not just survive.

Our senior years can be the best years of our lives if we plan for and embrace the changes aging brings. Topics include but not limited to financial, health, senior living, travel, and much more. Information is compiled from other trusted resources as well as content developed by The AGEUcational.com team especially for our readers and their families.

www.ageucational.com

 

Full Transcript Below

Another Great Reason to Control Chronic Stress, Its Now Linked To Alzheimer's with Terry and Roy

00:00:14
Roy
Welcome to another episode of educational. I'm your host, Roy Terry. We are the podcasts that we do bring you our journey, not only through our aging, but us helping our parents, just, they be, as they become neat as they need more and more help, more care. It's a, there's a lot of information out there. There's a lot of misinformation. What we're here to do is, not only talk about our situation, but also we do have, professionals in the area that do come on from time to time. So, today though, I think we're going to talk about, chronic stress and Alzheimer's.

00:00:56
Terry
Yeah. Just to mention that June is Alzheimer's and brain awareness month. Yeah, we found an article, that was in the science alert, on the science alert, website saying that chronic stress could be a factor and behind Alzheimer's that is not, I don't like that because all signs lately are pointing to us having it,

00:01:27
Roy
Sooner, rather than later, too, with they call they're starting to call it the type three diabetes. So, if you have diabetic issues, if you have stress,

00:01:41
Terry
Yeah, just all of that, everything leads into something is going to lead into some kind of brain, and heart, and it all leads the older you get, the more you pay attention to it because, as kids, we just, w we talked about this earlier, we just are Bulletproof, and we just want to eat everything and do, just do what we want to and reacting and not responding, which is hard to do. And, responding properly, whatever that means. Not just letting it build up, but, chronic stress. Oh my gosh, I, we have it.

00:02:30
Roy
Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of it to go around and, it leads to other things that, we talk about the, getting enough sleep. Of course the blood group glucose that, as you read down through the study, it was talking about that there is a,

00:02:49
Terry
Like the HPA access. Is that where you're going? Yeah.

00:02:52
Roy
Yeah. The, the, I can't even pronounce,

00:02:55
Terry
I've got a thalamic pituitary, adrenal axis, HPA axis,

00:03:00
Roy
It's a pathway that's supposedly, located just above your kidneys, that links to, parts of your brain. The other thing is that, if I'm trying to look down through here, but if I'm not mistaken where I read that it also raises the blood glucose, yeah. The glucose levels in our blood when we get high stress too. It was like, well, we're getting it on multi fronts then, and then it, typically, if you're stressed, you don't sleep right. You don't eat. Right. If you're like me, you like to stress eat, which is eating all the bad things that, not good for you.

00:03:42
Terry
Yeah. I mean, at the molecular geneticist, David growth from Curtin university in Australia is the one who I'm going to quote here. He says, what we know is that chronic stress does affect many biological pathways within our body. There's an intimate interplay between exposure to chronic stress, and pathways influencing the body's reaction to such stress. They also mentioned that the HPA axis, is part of its job is also to regulate the release of cortisol, the steroid hormone, the greater, the stress, the more cortisol is released.

00:04:24
Roy
Yeah. That's the, I think that's the fight or flight drug that are a chemical that is released that, we just get in the other parts of this, probably raises your blood pressure. There's so many, nothing good comes from stress. When you have chronic stress, I think it just begins to, take its toll on a lot of our function. I think it actually can reduce our immunity where you get sick more. I know I've been, it's been years ago, but being in that position where you're just so stressed out for so long, and then it's like, you just get sick, get the flu.

00:05:01
Terry
Shuts down. Yeah. Yeah, increase in. We've talked about that earlier, too. The increasing the blood sugar. Oh my gosh. That immune system, it's just a vicious cycle. I mean, the older we get the older.

00:05:17
Roy
Yeah. It says here, also I think this is a quote, from that guy that you just mentioned, but it says in the brain, this leads to chronic disruption of normal brain processes increasing in risk of subsequent neuro degeneration and ultimately dementia. So,

00:05:37
Terry
Yeah. I mean, my dad had, I say he had all simers, he had Pick's disease, which is a form of dementia, but for all intents and purposes, we called it Alzheimer's, the genetic, I know it's going off the beaten path here, but, I, I, I think that genetics has a part in it too. I don't know, all of his siblings, all four of his siblings and some kind of dementia or Alzheimer's too so interesting.

00:06:10
Roy
Yeah, we'll have to uncover that, take a look at that maybe next week and see what is that genetic connection and how big of a part does it play.

00:06:18
Terry
What, does going off to, would you get a test to see if you had, if you were pre declined for it? Cause I think that's or predisposed to it. I think that is an available test right now. Isn't it? That.

00:06:34
Roy
I don't know. I don't know. I would have to really think about that. Cause it's like, if there's nothing you can, I guess let's take that back and say, if there's a position that you can do something about it, then yes. Maybe, but if it's one of these things, like it's just going to happen. I don't really know. I mean, it, because then it's like you spend all your time worrying about when I'm going to get this. And yeah. I mean, I don't, I'm sure that if, even if you're predisposed to it, that doesn't mean you're a hundred percent going to get it or a hundred percent, if they say you're not predisposed, doesn't mean a hundred percent that you won't get it still a lot of gray area. I think you could, well, I won't speak for other people. I'll speak for me. I think I would end up worrying about, as tomorrow, the day that happens versus just live in life and maybe doing the things that we can have control over to, try and that healthy decisions that we can make to try to avoid it.

00:07:34
Terry
Yeah. And I mean, talk about chronic stress. If you were to know that would just probably exacerbate the situation.

00:07:43
Roy
Yeah. Know that it's one of those things that's easier said than done. I know it's how we react to stuff, but unfortunately, life throws things at people that puts them in stressful situations and this pandemic, I'm sure it's put a lot of people with jobs, situations trying to eat, pay the bills. We've got we're at a time now where the, I think they've extended it one more time, but the, rent protection and then, here in Texas, they signed a bill where that the extra federal bump is going away. I think today it's the end of it. Anyway, I just, I guess the point is that it's, even if I told you at 30, that stresses an important factor in this Alzheimer's it's like, really, what can you do to avoid it? just,

00:08:38
Terry
Well there, yeah. I mean, you just have to, you have to, let me give you advice, I guess, have some kind of strategy to be able to, where do you get that? Is there a class there's gotta be a class, there's a class for everything. I'm.

00:08:55
Roy
Sure there is. I can give you some tools to do it, but it's like, if you're worrying about your livelihood, it's hard to, yeah. I mean, it's hard to like say, well, I'm not going to be stressed about that. It just is what it is. It projects you into a spot of not having a roof over your head or not having food to eat, especially if you have kids. There's just, to me, it's just one of those things that's easier. It's very easy to pronounce that. Oh yeah, you need to avoid stress. Well, people usually don't, well, I'll see, most people don't seek out stressful situations. We try to avoid them or, we try to be proactive to not get ourselves in. It's mainly the tools that once we find ourselves there, if there are things that we can do to help ourselves relax. Again, there are situations that, I mean, until the sick, until whatever the problem is resolved, you're going to be under a tremendous load of stress.

00:09:56
Roy
Yeah.

00:09:57
Terry
Short of go into meditation retreats, or, just kind of some kind of inner working retreat, energy retreats or something like that. It's still, things are going to come up where you're not going to be able to do it, but breathing deep, breathe a lot of decrease.

00:10:14
Roy
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think there's things that we could do like that you can deep breaths, you can meditate, you can do a lot of things, but it's like myself, I can only speak for me, but even doing those things, it may work for a minute. When I get through with that and have to get back into life, that problem is still there. I still have to figure out a way to solve it. So, and maybe that's just a me not wanting to deal with it. And maybe, but I don't know. It's hard because just like I said, it's just easier to, it's easy to say to forget it and move on, but very difficult for me as I feel like I need to solve it, got a problem, needs answer. God do it. If I let here, if I sit here and wait, it's.

00:11:04
Terry
Going to be time,

00:11:07
Roy
Time goes by and I still didn't solve it. So,

00:11:10
Terry
Yeah. And, and of course there are situations that need, I think Nene, I guess it's the dude and the chicken dude wants to scientifically fix it all. The chicken me wants to kind of take it in, breathe it in approach it from all sides, figure out where to go and then hope that it goes away. So I don't have to do anything.

00:11:34
Roy
Yeah. I guess I've been around them up that most of them don't just go away. I want to say, sometimes we do borrow trouble and I think we've talked about this before that there was a, a situation surrounding us, let me just put it that way. There were some situations surrounding us and, it was kind of on my mind, heavy for an evening or two, and then whatever that was, it actually ended up not materializing. So, we always like to talk about bars and troubles that, here I was sitting and being, thinking about something, being worried about it. I think it was it's one of the very few times that I w actually woke me up in the middle of the night, to deal with it. And then, it kinda took a turn. Something happened that what was the plan that was supposed to happen? Didn't happen.

00:12:28
Roy
Some, there were, they found another way to do this. So it was.

00:12:31
Terry
Like, so it was like off, all that wasted time that you could have been sleeping, but, sometimes we just get into that rabbit hole when you can't pull it.

00:12:41
Roy
Right. Yeah. This was just something that just kept being on in my mind that, cause it resulted from a decision I made to, I gave somebody permission to do something. After that, I was trying to be a nice guy. After that I was like, I wished I hadn't have given that permission.

00:12:59
Terry
Because yeah,

00:13:02
Roy
Well, no, that was definitely under my control. I shouldn't have done it so well. It was already, you know, in motion. There wasn't much else to do, but anyway, yes, very much so.

00:13:17
Terry
Yeah. But chronic stress not good. If you can find a way to deal with it, if you have a little extra time in one, a research that maybe that would be helpful toward not getting on, not getting Alzheimer's or any of the other things that could be related to the chronic stress and inflammation and all of that.

00:13:40
Roy
Yeah, I've got one more piece I was going to read here. It says that identifying the molecular mechanisms underlying the association between chronic stress and Alzheimer's disease, as well as identifying genetic factors that could contribute to the subs sub susceptibility of this association may allow for new therapeutic targets to be identified as well as strategies targeting chronic stress management to be implied. That was what the researchers wrote in their paper. Yeah, there's just a lot of good work going on. Haven't heard much more, we talked last time about the new Alzheimer's drug that's come out and I'm really, haven't heard much more from either side, which is surprising. I, I really thought that we would, here's some of the, I guess some of the people who were affected with Alzheimer's either themselves, if they're in early stages come out or their family members come out to say that, Hey, Ron, at this point, anything is worth taking the shot over.

00:14:46
Roy
We'll do, we'll.

00:14:46
Terry
Try it just to have anything, any, I mean, they've got Alzheimer's, you've got Alzheimer's and there is not really, there are drugs that you can, take to help keep you stable, not to, just kind of where you are. It's not gonna reverse anything, but that only that kind of taps out after you take it for so long.

00:15:12
Roy
Yeah. Those only don't they only treat the symptoms. They don't really treat, I think this new drug actually was one of the first ones that treats some of the underlying aspects again, not, well, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think even with the new drug, not reversal, but if you catch it early enough, maybe just puts you in a holding pattern to stay in the early stages longer than what you would have, maybe if you hadn't taken it.

00:15:42
Terry
Yeah. And, I mean, I, I, there's just, it's almost been 20 years since they've had any new drugs. I think, there was a lot of, there's a lot of pressure from all over the place to get something out. I don't know, I, I don't know. I don't know how I feel about it, but then, my dad has, is gone and I don't know how I'd feel about it if you were here, but I would certainly be researching the heck out of it. Yeah. Yeah, I wanted to say, in honor of, Alzheimer's and brain awareness month, there are some are I'm sorry, do you have anything else to say there are some free Alzheimer's and dementia programs. The, Alzheimer's foundation of America created the AFA T teal room in it's a free library of virtual, activity and therapeutic programming, just do it online. They have all these classes that are free music, art, dance, movement, fitness gardening, virtual tours, and you can go to the Alzheimer's foundation, organization website for that information.

00:17:04
Terry
Also there are a bunch of dementia support groups and very well health, just put out the best seven dementia support groups of 2021 Alzheimer's association, was the best overall support group. The best for Lewy body dementia is the Lewy body dementia association. Family caregiver Alliance was the best for the caregivers, American Parkinson's disease association, best for mentorship as dementia mentors and social media as memory people. I haven't been on that one yet, but I'm very interested to find out about more or more about that one. Yeah.

00:17:55
Roy
Yeah. The Alzheimer's association has a lot of great resources in there they're everywhere, so it never hurts to give them a call. They had a little up ahead of this that just basically was talking that if you're in the early stages, you can, that it can help improve some of your quality of life. It's very important for you and your caregivers to, seek out a group and find that there's more than one. If you go to one you don't feel comfortable with, or really doesn't meet your needs, look around and find one in your community that helped. I also have a bunch online now. If you don't want to get out of the house, or if you live in a smaller rural environment where they may not be available in your town, you can always get online and, join groups and with anything, this devastating, it's just great to seek support.

00:18:49
Terry
Instead of reinventing the wheel and having to do all the researchers that you don't have to do it alone, and it's not weak or to ask for help and just ask the questions that you need help with your answers on, you surely need to research other things, but if you're getting, if you put the question out there and five people come back and say, oh yeah, this is the right thing to do. 10 come back and say, no, you need to check this out. And, you might want to double check.

00:19:23
Roy
Yeah. There's just, people that have been through it can help us know what to do, what are some things that have worked for them and, some best practices and just be there to talk to, sometimes it's more just a, you just need somebody just to reach out to that has been through this that can, be, somebody that you can lean on. Look for those places, there's a lot of them, Google them call the Alzheimer's association call, one of your senior center, community, senior community centers, a lot of places you could turn to for that.

00:20:05
Terry
Yeah. It's just really important that you get that care.

00:20:11
Roy
All right. Unless you have anything else that's going to do it for this episode.

00:20:15
Terry
I think I'm good. I think I'm good.

00:20:17
Roy
All right then. Well, thanks a lot for listening. Of course. Like I said, we try to release our guest episodes on Tuesday and then on our Thursday episodes, we'll be talking more about, some, maybe some things that we've gone through or that we're seeing, I've got, my parents, my mom and stepdad are fixing to make the move from, their house of 30 years into a, not to a community it's kind of a community 55 plus red Easter when it was first built. It was a little different situation, but now it's just, apartment rental community. We're going to see how that goes with the, we're going through the downsizing and then, see how this goes. Anyway, we'll be talking about things that are happening with the us, but also, we've kind of chosen to, at this point to focus a lot on dementia, just because it affects so many people it's devastating.

00:21:20
Roy
And, there may be some things that we can do health wise to, like relieving our stress, making sure our sugars are in order,

00:21:31
Terry
A healthy diet overall, I mean, for everything, but, and we had, Dr. Joy was on, she's a dentist. And, she goes and does house calls for older people and helps the caregivers figure out how to do the tea. You just don't think about that and brush your teeth. Yeah. Just brush your teeth. Well, no, there's more to it because a lot of people have when they get older, they might have bridges or whatever. If somebody doesn't tell the caregiver, how are they to know? Right. That can affect all kinds of things.

00:22:05
Roy
Right. Yeah. I was surprised in that episode to find out that, I knew that, our oral health affected our heart health as well. I was very surprised when she said that it can affect our brain health too, to your brain,

00:22:20
Terry
The plaque, everywhere.

00:22:23
Roy
Yep. So, all right, well, up until next time, that's going to do it for us. I'm rowing course. You can find us at www dot educational, excuse me. Yeah. www.ageucational.com. We're on all the major social media platforms, as well as all the major podcast platforms, Google, Stitcher, Spotify, iTunes. If we're not a one that you listened to, please reach out. We'd be glad to get that added. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

www.ageucational.com

With Love Chuckie, A Granddaughters Love and Care For Her Grandmother with Ciana Singh

This is a great story of a granddaughter's love and respect for her grandmother. It's not always easy, but it's always worth the effort. We talk about some to the hacks Ciana has learn to keep her life as normal as possible while taking care of Chuckie. A great story that is well worth the list. Also check out the picture and video on Instagram at withlovechuckie.

About Ciana

The best act of love and kindness one can provide for another is caring for someone in their most vulnerable and weakest state. I have been caregiving for my grandmother for six years now. This journey has had its fair share of ups and downs. My Grandmother Chuckie has had Dementia for a total of 8 years. 

 

In the beginning she was very forgetful and couldn’t remember whole phrases and sentences. She couldn’t remember what average everyday things were called such as forgetting what an apple or orange was. The mid-stages were very painful to watch because during this stage she was very angry, agitated, thought friends and family were stealing from her and she would cry a lot. During this stage we noticed that she wouldn’t eat and because of this I went from being a part-time caregiver to a full-time caregiver.

 

When we found out my Grandmother had Dementia I started helping her out more with driving her places she wanted to go and drove her to doctors appointments. Then, once we noticed she wasn’t eating and hiding odd things in odd places I started to watch her full-time. It went on to get more difficult when the attempt to wonder really started. She would try and leave the house all day and all night. Her circadian rhythm was completely thrown off. This lead to my mom and I having high stress, sleep deprivation and exhaustion. 

 

These late stages are interesting because although her ability to do anything for herself is virtually nonexistent it seems to be in some ways easier. She is a lot weaker and has lost a ton of weight, so due to this she is less angry and combative because she is just simply exhausted herself.

 

Overall, I still won’t trade a moment with my Grandmother for the world, even the difficult moments. This journey has made me a better person, taught me the true meaning of what unconditional love is, made me become more patient and understanding in general not just as a caregiver, but in life. 

 

The main reason I have had the courage to tell our story is just to help others out there going through this same journey. I want to encourage  all caregivers to get as educated about the condition as soon as possible because knowing what to expect will make the journey slightly easier. A lot of heartache happened simply because my family and I weren’t prepared. We were lost and confused and we want to prevent that from happening with others. 

 

I will continue to share my tips and tricks with real life examples in the moment with my Grandmother to show that anyone going through this is not alone.

Instagram - withlovechuckie

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

With Love Chuckie, A Granddaughters Love and Care For Her Grandmother with Ciana Singh

00:00:20
Roy
Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational. This is Roy. We are a podcast that we are chronicling our journey, not only my journey through,

00:00:29
Roy
Getting close to the aging point and aging process, but also both of our parents are getting to that point that they need more and more help. Actually, I think he was out last week with my mom, looking at maybe an independent living apartment, something for them to downsize into. Now we want to Chronicle all these different things, because I want you to think that you're alone. There's a lot of us going through this and, it was trying to navigate. Hopefully we can give you some information that we've learned along the way, but today we've got an interesting guest that she has followed on Instagram, and we just love her story so much. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day. I just want to set the backdrop, but, my mother and her grandmother all moved together, caregiver most full-time I suspect. That has become my role, out on your own and about moving back.

00:01:42
Roy
You can be her primary caregiver, but, we talked a little about pressure. The last episode, the last posting we saw from you that made the point that we knew I needed to reach out was that, I think or something like that, a treadmill across the room, the workout, but just, it's just, being able to try to take care of her. So, first off, thank you so much to the show. Tell us about how did this come about, became your grandmother's primary caregiver.

00:02:29
Ciana
I noticed that my grandmother could not drive anymore. It was just having a tough time with, a small every day to day things that she used to do. I said, Hey, grandma, why don't I just start to take over and take you to your doctor's appointments and take you to the store. And, we can spend time together and it'll be fun. I started doing that and as the time progressed, I noticed that different areas of her cognitive abilities were declining. Her ability to speak her ability to pay attention to her bank account, her ability to dress herself, her ability to do things, head toe for hygiene. The biggest thing is that when she started wandering, trying to wander away from the home is when I decided to move in. Okay. And she.

00:03:18
Terry
Was, was she living on her own at that point? Or was she with your mom?

00:03:23
Ciana
Her and my grandmother have, or my mom and my grandmother have lived together for, since I was a young child. Kind of the same before were talking before we started, my mother had my grandmother moved in with us, but I was very young, so I'm very attached to my grandmother. So it's almost like I had to.

00:03:41
Roy
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm in that were talking pre-show, I'm kind of in that position, my grandmother, my mother's mother was very close with us and I had the good fortune in my kids. I had the good fortune that, she, even though she wouldn't give up her house for a long time, for a couple of years, she would still come and stay with us probably, four or five nights every week. It was an amazing experience that we all bonded and got along very well. It can be good if you can make it work, but there, the important part is something that we talk about here a lot too, it's that, not giving up yourself and I know that you struggle well, yeah, everybody's struggled, but you have become, I guess very good at designing things like that instance where you could get her set up where you could keep her busy for that would allow you to get on the treadmill.

00:04:39
Roy
Because people like myself, I mean, I would just be like, fuck, pop them down on the couch.

00:04:51
Ciana
It was difficult. I'm not going to lie. When I started taking care of my grandmother for, going into full-time from part-time, I completely lost my sense of, balanced, when it comes to, taking care of my mental health, taking care of the things that, I love to do, I'm a big traveler, right before I started taking care of her full-time I was traveling to Egypt. I went to London and I had all these other plans on going, to other areas overseas. And, I really had to, take a whole at that particular part of my life. And, then I started noticing that not only was I neglecting, things that I love, like traveling, but it was even coming down to my fitness goals, my nutritional goals for myself, just things that I love to do. I woke up and dad was like, I have to figure this out.

00:05:45
Ciana
God's put me in this position for a reason. Instead of looking at it like a prison sentence, I need to start looking at it as a privilege and an honor. That's kind of what, helped, flip the, flip my mind to, looking at this, an opportunity to balance and then also, get creative. Then, look at this time to spending with my grandmother as an honor. So,

00:06:09
Roy
And how long, I'm sorry. How long ago, did this happen as far as your grandmother and your grandmother's name is Chuckie, right? Yeah.

00:06:20
Ciana
She has been diagnosed for a total amount of years of nine years. She was starting to really struggle on a high level, about three years ago. Now I would say she's in her severe late stages, but when I decided to go full-time, it was, three years ago.

00:06:41
Roy
Okay. Yeah, I think that's awesome. That's a great message about flipping the switch, because I do think that we in America, the other there's other cultures, I'm not sure about Europe, but I know what the Asian cultures, very family oriented and, they want, I think, sometimes over there it's the opposite. They, they actually fight to see who gets to take care of mom and dad, where, we kind of fight to see who has to take care of.

00:07:09
Terry
And, and it's a big thing for them to be able to take care of their elders. And, that your family is such a great unit that was kind of instilled. I mean, you're, you were so close to your grandmother that, you felt that you wanted to do this. That's an awesome thing. Yeah,

00:07:31
Ciana
Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah.

00:07:33
Roy
What are some, I guess, first off, what are some tricks or tips or hacks that you have the treadmill thing, do you still need, are you able to be in a position to actually get out of the house some and go,

00:07:48
Ciana
Yeah. That's actually significantly, been reduced lately, just because she is in such a severe stage of her dementia, however, I'm not letting that stop me. So, so for example, if I love to meditate, that's very important to me. It's a part of how I start my day. What I've started doing is I meditate with my grandma and so I'll set my grandma up. I'll set myself up. We both have our tea in the morning. Usually she has juice or tea and, I'll sit and I'll put our medic, my meditation music on and I'll do the meditation with her, before it was something that I was doing alone, but I'm incorporating her into it. Yeah. Another example is, I love to eat healthy foods. So, another thing that my grandmother used to love to do was cook. So now I incorporate her into that. She can't cook anymore.

00:08:46
Ciana
She can't, she can't even speak anymore. We, I don't let her handle any utensils or anything like that, but I literally set up a, I'll put it in the kitchen with me and I, have her little fidget pillow and I'm talking to her and I'm like, oh yeah, grandma would, should I put this in? I'm going to put in the tumeric. Now I'm going to put in the salt. I just incorporate her into me doing a normal, everyday thing that I'd be doing for myself. It kind of knocks out two birds with one stone because I'm keeping her highly engaged and then I'm also doing something for myself. I'm also feeding her healthier food than she used to eat. She was big on the fried stuff. And so, yeah. So, it's I just incorporate her into my day, another example, I have to check emails.

00:09:32
Ciana
I have to check emails, I literally sit next to her while she has her fidget pillow Walsh or she'll have like her baby doll therapy. I'll look at my emails while I'm looking at my emails, she's sitting next to me. I think, before I used to get so frustrated, and I really want to get this done, or I really need to read these emails, or I need to look at my bank statements or I need to, because I had two jobs at one point, but before the coronavirus, I was balancing both caregiving and doing both jobs. Now I just am taking care of her. I used to have to check emails and, instead of getting frustrated again, I just incorporated her with that. That's what I would say I do the most is just instead of looking at it, like I'm used to doing something this way, I just have shifted it to, how can I blend the two and how can I balance it?

00:10:22
Roy
Yeah. Now I do have a couple of questions of some things like first off the meditation. What is her response? Does she, and I guess you said she's non-verbal so I know it's not like she's talking, but does she sit quietly and you feel like that she's involved or is she still moving around or I guess how does that go day to day? Yeah,

00:10:45
Ciana
That's a really good question. At this stage she's very immobile, so it kind of works out to my benefit now because she's, she doesn't really stand up on her own unless I pick her up or, again, she's, she speaks in gibberish, she'll randomly say like a word here or there, but she doesn't really speak much. Again, it's really early in the morning, when I like to meditate. She's typically like kind of getting up herself. So, we're in a routine now, however, during the middle stages, I would say that's the most difficult time period because she was still very verbal and she was still very mobile. During those time periods, my meditation and things like that did suffer, I guess you could call it suffering. I mean, really, it was just replaced with caring for my grandmother. So I had to figure it out. I said, okay, I'm not able to do something important to me anymore because I'm shifting that at that time period to my grandmother now.

00:11:44
Ciana
Instead of dishonoring that I just started honoring that. I said, Hey, look like if this point in my life, I can't do a meditation because I'm taking care of my grandmother. That is to be honored. I should be grateful for that because again, I could be sick myself, I could have, be in a position where I can't care for my grandmother. I just started to shift my mindset. When it came to like, being invited to places or going to, out in LA and, being a young girl and wanting to, be social. I said, instead of being, oh, I have to miss out on this, it's no, I get to take care of my grandmother during this time of her life. It's a short season and it's something to be honored. So.

00:12:28
Roy
That's awesome. I mean, not that I love the short part, but the season of caregiving that you're going on, being able to see that as a privilege is an awesome thing. Yeah. I commend you. That's a lot of maturity. I mean, cause it's even hard even at my age, even though I know somebody's going to have to take care of me shortly still, it's like, thinking about the things that, looking at it from the other perspective of having to give things up instead of, Hey, what, this is, this can be my pleasurable thing. This is my way to give back. That's a great spirit and a great attitude. The other thing I was going to ask you was about the cooking. When you pull her up and set her down and you're communicating with her, do you feel that she, even if she's non-verbal to you, do you feel like that she is on the same page with you and that she's in there cooking with you or she telling you to throw in some more, cumin over here and some Bazell over there?

00:13:30
Ciana
Honestly, no, she's not really interactive. She's not, her eye contact is not there. I can tell that there's some level of, feeling involved just because I I'm paying attention to her accused with her body now. It's almost like we've developed a way to communicate. Although she is speaking in gibberish now, so I'll look at how quickly she moves her hands or her inner fingers. I'll look at if she's moving her feet like this, usually I can tell she's happy or engaged if she's moving her feet, like, kind of when you're happy and you're excited. If she is sitting open, like with her body just straight forward and her legs are not crossed, she's, kind of just like not paying attention. If she has her legs cross, I feel like she's comfortable. Cause that's all, that's always been her thing. She crosses her legs and she's getting involved in like a nice, conversation with their friends or whatever, that's her thing.

00:14:32
Ciana
I can tell when she's into it, when she's has her legs across and she's kind of just looking down, she's not into it. That's kind of where we're at with this stage. Because, just in a lot of the research that I've done, it's my job as a caregiver to keep her as highly engaged as possible. Even though she's not really, having the eye contact or she's speaking back to me, just me speaking with her is a way to just keep her brain, having some level of function with just even hearing the sound of my voice.

00:15:05
Roy
Yeah. That, then that was the next question I was going to ask you was, have you gone through, do you have a formal background in caregiving or is this things that you have learned just research along the way or how have you been able to become this? Self-aware not only of yourself, but the, I guess the engagement or the surrounding of your grandma mother as well.

00:15:27
Ciana
Yeah. Five years ago I was in the dark. I was lost. I was confused. I was frustrated. I was upset. I was angry. I was like, I thought I was just going to be taking my grandmother to the store. Like I just thought I was going to be taking my grandma to the doctors, doctor's appointment. And we go for lunch. Like I never knew that it would turn into this huge chunk of my time in my life being invested in my grandmother. So that's just the honest truth. I had no idea what I was signing up for. Do I have to be honest a lot of times then, some of my family members or friends will say, wow, you're just such a good person. You're making this huge sacrifice. Well, you don't honestly know, like I didn't know what I was signing up for. If I did know what I was signing up for, who knows how I would've necessarily would have reacted.

00:16:19
Ciana
So, that's just the honest truth, same firm I could speak for me and my mother about this. We were very, very uneducated on this. As time went on and the high level of stress, the high level of frustration, the high level of just sadness and confusion, because again, with dementia, they become very feisty, very, my grandmother even got physical. I mean she's old and it's not like it when she hit me, it was, it hurt or anything. But, but that was tough at the time. I didn't know that her brain was dying. I just thought that she was being me, to me and my mom. So we would argue and all that. I was like, there has to be a solution for this, like this doesn't, this just doesn't feel like I'm just supposed to deal with this. Like, there's something going on. I started doing, looking on YouTube, and just literally started Googling stuff.

00:17:14
Ciana
I started to learn and come to find out that she literally has no control over what's happening to her. Unfortunately, when she got diagnosed eight years ago, she got a diagnosing, they asked you a couple of questions about a clock. They asked you to write some stuff down and they kind of just diagnose you and give you some medication and then that's it. And they don't. And that was just our experience. At least I don't want to speak for anyone else's behalf or on the medical system, but our particular experience was here's a medication, the buck. We just thought she would forget things here and there, but not the case. It's not a memory issue. It's a cognitive decline issue. Right. So, so I started doing research and I never knew that there was an abundance of information out there and abundance of resources free, by the way, by the Alzheimer's organization.

00:18:07
Ciana
There's also Alzheimer's LA, which is like another sector, there's, adult daycare, that is offered in a lot of local communities around the United States. I just started researching myself, I got opened up to a plethora of information and then started to learn different tactics on how to stay calm and how to stay patient in combination with, again, my personal, ideals as far as meditating and eating healthy and stuff like that. That's how I was able to come to a level of like maturity and acceptance and a high level of patience.

00:18:41
Roy
What about your sleep patterns? Because I know that can be, it's not only huge for the individual that's being cared for, but also when we get tired, our patients become thin. And, I used to be an ombudsman for the state, volunteer on buds, the first state of Texas. One thing that we noticed and our nursing homes is that when staff had to double over shifts, when they were pulling double shifts or working crazy hours, three or four weeks with no days off the tired, or they became the more susceptible to abusive situation, then it could be verbal or just talking mean to the resident or whatever. I'm interested how the all well, what's her sleep pattern, number one, and then kind of how do you match that? Where you can get enough rest where you feel good every day?

00:19:35
Ciana
Yeah, no, absolutely. I can say that right now we are in a better sleep pattern and a better schedule with her sleeping. She, I gained because I think she's just so weak. She's in the late stages, she, goes to sleep around 12, like midnight, maybe one in the morning, and then she wakes up like around eight. It's, that's basically when me and my mom go to sleep. Now about two years ago, she was getting up at three in the morning, fully dressed, trying to leave the house. So, during those stages it was just difficult. It was difficult. It was, a high level of stress. Again, like to your point of when you're, when your lack of sleep, in a high level of stress, you don't handle things as best as you possibly could have. If I would've known now, what I know now, then I probably would have handled it a lot differently.

00:20:31
Ciana
But, just because I was uneducated and, I was misinformed. I was, I just kind of just got through the date, the best that I could, there was no real rhyme. There was no real steps or any breathing tactics or anything that I was doing, but now I, there's, so many amazing resources on YouTube. I actually found that, they have done studies where if you, brief, just literally take five minutes of breathing five throughout the day. Five different times throughout the day, you actually can, reduce your level of stress, even if are sleep deprived. Usually when we're in like a, a high level stress environment or position we stop breathing, right. We just start restraining our breath for whatever re I guess it's just like a natural human reaction. If you just literally allow yourself to breathe, that will definitely help you out. So, yeah, during that time I was not breathing.

00:21:31
Ciana
I was not meditating. I just was kind of getting through the day and it was stressful, but what I want to tell others out there that are in the more, the beginning stages or mid stages, if you just take two to five minutes throughout the day, there literally is a abundance of studies shown that really helps with just being able to get through each moment.

00:21:49
Roy
Okay. I was going to ask you, okay, so you talked about when, a few years ago, or three years ago, I guess when she would get up at 3:00 AM and get fully dressed and try to leave. Did you have, I remember this about my dad, because my dad, had a long battle with Alzheimer's as well, and he's, he passed away about six and a half years ago. I remember, when mom and dad were still on the house that they lived in for a long time, he would, and he was still driving. It was not fun. He would put the, in, he would put his car keys in the freezer and Everett, we would look forever for those guides, just weird places to store things. I, I remember like it was yesterday and him going out, trying to leave in the middle of the night, many times, we started putting up signs, just stop, whatever.

00:22:49
Roy
We didn't really have the alarms and all of that. Were you able to have alarms, did you hear her getting up and rub rummaging around? How did you do that? Yeah,

00:23:02
Ciana
No, that's a really good question. We started bells on her door, putting bells on her door and bells on the front door. That was, again, not informed, had no idea about resources or if this was even normal. Like, we didn't know that this was even normal for people with dementia to be doing. We just thought it was like our individualized circumstances with my grandmother. So, we started doing the bell thing. I even started tying like, a scarf, like in such a way to where she wouldn't even be able to open up the front door. Like it would, she just wouldn't be able to like, undo the knot. It was just like some makeshift ways to just keep her from. Then, because when she started trying to leave, I, I would, I'm asleep in the living room, during the stage of her, wanting to try to leave.

00:23:56
Ciana
So she couldn't get past me. I was when you kind of, just kind of have like sleep with like a one eye open, I guess you could say. I just had to, like, I, that was just the stage that I was in. Of course her trying to leave out of the front door, I would hear the bells. I would hear her struggling to try to undo the knot and I would wake up and I would have to, get up, move her back into the room, try to get her to calm down and try to put her back to sleep. Like you said, you mentioned the stop signs. I do want to tell everyone out there's a ton of different ways. It's a tentative for things that you can do. You can literally put, they have these things. I think you can get them like anywhere, like on Amazon.

00:24:32
Ciana
I'm not sure, but, you can literally put a bookcase over the door to where, it doesn't look like it's a front door or like a big stop sign. Cause that is something that they recognize. I also started, me and my mom, we had, our maintenance, install, a lock, like the, just like the change we had her have them install it at the very top of the door. She literally couldn't like even reach it. If she tried to open up the door, it would like make a noise. Then, of course from opening it with like slam back forward. So that's what we had to do. I know that there is, alarm systems. You can put, there's pillowcase alarm systems. There's a map that they can sleep on that will like start to make a noise. If they try to get up, there's a map that you can put, at the foot of the bed.

00:25:21
Ciana
If they walk past it'll alarm again. We started having the camera system. The camera system and it, these big, well, it was a big, it's a baby monitor. The baby monitors have a really sensitive, like, the speaker on is very sensitive. You can almost even hear her breathing. She started to get up, we could hear the shuffling. So, I mean, with the alarm, with the block, with the bells, with the camera, we kind of just did all of that. There's also another thing I do want to add really quick is if you were a loved one is starting to wander. They do have these, devices that they can, wear to where the GPS system. If they are able to, for some reason to get out, it's a GPS system and you can literally call the police. They have that GPS system in the system, and they just literally alert every, alert.

00:26:15
Ciana
It's a, a 9 1, 1 is, trying to find someone like in the mountains or whatever, or like any pain, a cell phone it's like that they ping like that GPS device, and they're able to find them.

00:26:30
Roy
Free or whatever.

00:26:34
Ciana
Yeah. If you just get in contact with Alzheimer's the Alzheimer's organization, they'll connect you with someone that can get you set up with that.

00:26:42
Roy
Early stages. I know that they can, what they can also do is set up perimeter, like a two mile radius of your home. If they break that radius, then you would be alerted and alarmed and a lot of great inventions out there. Cause one was when you redirected her, when she was at the door already, did she become combative or was it easier for you to get her back in bed to understand that it wasn't time to go anywhere?

00:27:11
Ciana
I would, at the beginning stages, I would get mad and frustrated. We'd get an argument. I would say, you mean, what are you doing? It's three in the morning. You need to, lay down, what are you doing? And she's like, don't tell me what to do at the beginning. It was bad. But, I then learned, that there is tactics and ways to where you can meet them in their world. Right. She's trying to go somewhere because, maybe she's used to going to work every day and it's, she's confused. I'd say, about six months in, I would S I would reason with her, of course I'd be tired, puffy at all, but I would read what I was saying, oh, grandma, where are you trying to go? She's like, well, I need to go somewhere and say, okay, that's great. Well, how about this? why don't we both get some rest, just get a couple of hours of sleep.

00:27:59
Ciana
In the morning mean you can get up, get ready, and then we can go on a drive or we can go where you'd like to go. And she'd be like, okay. Like I I'm open for that. We would just, I would find ways to reason with her. I would, I would say, let's do this together. Even my approach started to be more calm cause I would approach her very, frustrated and annoyed and tired, but then I just started to say, Hey, look like she doesn't know what she's doing. So then I would approach this. I hate Greg where you're trying to go. So, my approach got more calm. I started to reason with her and I started to meet her where she was at.

00:28:36
Roy
Yeah. There was a, it was a community that I was visiting. One time that they had a resident that he wanted to go to work every morning. He would get very upset because he's like, I have got to catch this bus. And, after a while, instead of trying to stifle him or to tell him how wrong he was, what they did is they got a briefcase and a hat and they hung it up on the hat rack in the office. When he came in, he'd get his hat, his briefcase he'd make about three laps around the hall, come back and put it down. He was done, he got it out of his system. I think that's important that w where we can within safety of everybody involved, we kinda have to figure out ways to just let them be where. Not always trying to bring them back to reality because my, luckily I haven't had to deal with it, but I've heard that is just a losing battle, that we will never be able to argue them back to where we want them to be, are where we are in this place in time.

00:29:39
Roy
We have to figure out, kinda like you did, how can we redirect them in order just to have some peace as well?

00:29:48
Ciana
No, absolutely. No. I mean, that's exactly it, I even, there's a couple of times where, I even let her wander. So, she got ready, got up and set up one day. I just was like, I'm just gonna, like, not, I'm not going to either lock the door. I'm just going to let her wander. I'm just going to be six feet behind her. Just, I'm just curious, where does she try to, like, where does she feel like she needs to go? What is she trying to do? So I did that. She was, comfortably walking down the hall. She had her purse with her, she had her jacket going on. She even remembered how to push, the elevator and she was waiting for the elevator. She, even, she got really confused at that point. Cause she's like, okay, wait, how do I get on the elevator? Do I like, what am I doing here? Because she, we lived, we used to live in Sacramento.

00:30:39
Ciana
We always lived in a home like a house. Now we live in an apartment building. She's, I think she was reverting back, like, wait a minute. I just pushed the elevator button, but I'm not sure what to do. She just kind of did like of a lap in that it just kind of looking around. And then went back into the house. I, I, she wanted to leave the next day. I was like, okay, I'm going to see if she's going to do the same thing again, this time she figured out how to get on to the elevator. I just got onto the elevator with her. I didn't say anything. I just acted like I was like a random person. She's not even paying attention to me. Then I'm there following her. She walks out to the parking lot. She goes to the front of the apartment building and she's just waiting.

00:31:23
Ciana
She's just waiting. I asked her, I said, grandma, who are you waiting for? And she's like, I got to go. I was like, okay, we'll just wait. We waited and she kind of got confused after about 10, 20 minutes. She just was willing to let me guide her back upstairs. I think after those moments of allowing her to see that she's going to be very confused when she's going on her own, it kind of made her not want to do them anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.

00:31:52
Roy
When did y'all make that move, from the house to the apartment? How long ago was that?

00:31:58
Ciana
It was about eight years ago.

00:32:03
Roy
Yeah. I was just wondering, how did she, of course, eight years ago, she wasn't near as a, I guess she wasn't as far along as she is now, but was that hard on her to make that move?

00:32:15
Ciana
Yeah. The thing is that she's, so it's kind of interesting story. My family, I was my family member. I were raised in Los Angeles, the nightstand Newport earthquake happened. So we moved up to Sacramento. My mom's dropped out. We went to Sacramento. During that time, my mom just had me and my brother she's single mom. You know, she needed help. My grandmother moved from LA up to Sacramento to help her. From my, late elementary school years, all the way up until high school, I was in Sacramento, but then I came back down to Los Angeles for college and all that stuff. I've been back for a long time. My grandmother had been saying after she just stopped, stopped working, she was like, I really want to be back in LA. My mom would be like, okay, maybe in a couple of years. Finally my grandmother was like, I'm putting my foot down.

00:33:11
Ciana
I would love to be back in LA. My mom was like, okay, we'll see on us down there. I have a job opportunity I can do out there, let's move down there. So that's why they move. Cause they were, they had been living in Sacramento for about 20 years. That was like, a big chunk of her life, she's very comfortable in LA cause she was raised out here, but then a big chunk of her life was also in the Sacramento. I think when she came back down here, they didn't move to the same area. They moved to a different area. It's, this area is not hardwired into her brain. Like the old, like she used to live, they used to live in, like Carson area, like more cells. Now we live in, they've spent the central valley or that, San Fernando valley. So, so yeah.

00:33:54
Roy
Yeah, because I've one thing I've always heard. It's not just dementia patients, but it's just mainly anybody as they get older, it's the change is very difficult, but for people with the dementia diagnosis, sometimes it's just, more than that they can handle makes them very agitated. It sounds like y'all probably moved back, way before things reached that point. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, I was going to ask, was she diagnosed while y'all, while they were in Sacramento or was she diagnosed when they came back to LA and what was her understanding of what her diagnosis was?

00:34:38
Ciana
No, that's a good question. Before they moved back to down here to Los Angeles, we believe that she actually had dementia starting then, but we didn't know it. So, when they moved back down here, I think it just her confusion enhanced because now she's out of, Sacramento and she's down in Los Angeles and she doesn't remember the streets. She doesn't know, where the, her normal Cornerstore is and her Walgreens and her grocery store and, just like little things that she liked to do around the city. That's when it really started to be amplified that something was just off. She started complaining about sensation in her head and then she wasn't able to finish sentences really anymore. She would just be in like the middle of a conversation and just like completely forget what she was talking about. That's when she went and did the testing and then found out that she had dementia, but I believe that, me and my mom believed that she had it a lot earlier.

00:35:37
Ciana
It was out here to answer your question. It was out here when she actually got diagnosed.

00:35:41
Roy
Did she understand that? Could she fully understand what was going on, do you think?

00:35:47
Ciana
She knew she was struggling and she started to, she has books on books and I'll probably start to post them on my social media, but she has like about this thick of books of notepads of her literally writing every single instruction out for her life. It was, she would draw a, like a remote controller and she would draw the buttons and she would say, you're supposed to push this button to turn the TV on. You're supposed to turn, push this button to change the channel. You do this button to do the volume. She started doing it. She started to draw her toothbrush. You use this to brush your teeth. She started to draw, everything. I know, well, see, my grandmother was an artist, outside of her working her whole life. She was really, I think her calling was really to be artists or her art is gorgeous.

00:36:42
Ciana
She was just, yeah, so she started drawing her entire life out into these books. She, and she would label them, she would say, this is for, bathroom care. This is for, and so that's what I started to notice too. I was like, oh, that's I used to think it was cool. I was like, oh, how cool is this? Like my grandmother, no, she's diagnosed with dementia, but she's like getting in front of it. She's not letting it defeat her, but she didn't know. I didn't know. My mom didn't know that this was just going to significantly decline. Even for doing, we riding where her toothbrush was and what a toothbrush looked like, and even with a dress, you had all these dresses and chews and all these things. I wish I would have actually brought it to show you guys, but, she, then she forgot to even know how to look at the book to even do all that stuff.

00:37:30
Ciana
So, I mean, it was her way of, to answer your question, it was her way of holding on. She knew something was off. She wasn't able to communicate exactly what she was going through. We had, we had done the research and so were just kind of, going through each day and taking it as it came. I really wished that we had did the research and knew what was going on at the beginning of stages. We could have even prolonged it from getting worse because now there's studies that are coming out, that you could even, almost even prevented. You want to hear that from a primary care doctor, but there is several, case studies and books out there that show that you could even prevent it from coming on. We're doing those things now for my mom and my aunt and my uncle, so that way, they don't have to deal with that, in their later golden years.

00:38:16
Roy
And through,

00:38:17
Terry
Diet and all of that. Yeah.

00:38:21
Ciana
Yep. Tumeric MCT oil when you would just keep cognitively, stimulated. Really, I think the biggest thing is just always having something to live for, like something value. I think a lot of times when people, when they retire and other kids are grown and they live far and say, even if they live far away, it's like, well, what am I, what am, what's the point of me even being here, anymore, my grandmother was someone that was on the go all the time and then it just stopped. She didn't have to take care of her grandkids anymore. And then my mom was always working. She was just in the room kind of withering away. I wish we would have been aware of that, then, and we would have maybe included her or, maybe took her on more walks or maybe, got her to get back into her art, all that.

00:39:09
Ciana
So, so that's why I started sharing on social media. I was like, I want to prevent this from, at least one person out there, for them to check in during the early stages.

00:39:19
Roy
Yeah. And it's hard to your mom works. It may not have been as much of an issue, but the masking of the person's, situation or their stage, because, we see that a lot with people that we're close to is that, the one per the well person overcompensates for the sicker person and they don't really, like when there's people gatherings and things like that, it's hard to see how bad things really are because all through the day, somebody else has been doing all these chores for them. So that's an important part. If you're a loved one, if you think of somebody that may be, drop in unexpectedly at times. I think you mentioned this in the beginning, but, look at the mail. Are they able to go through the male? We've got an upcoming episode, unfortunately, that, it was, a lady whose family lived across the country.

00:40:17
Roy
She had a caregiver, her dementia got bad. The, I guess the next door neighbor and the caregiver conspired to take this lady's, bank account, and, it became a whole thing. It's important to really stay in touch. And, there's an old saying in the senior living world trust, but verify. They might tell you that you're, that they're okay. Life is good, but you always need to verify that. There, if what to look for, there are always signs. Like you said, handling the mail, but you need to get in, like we talk about being on somebody's bank account as a preventative, if they live alone or in a different place, there's all kinds of steps that you can take. You just have to make the realization. As kids, a lot of times, we don't want to make that realization. We're finding that we don't want to see it and then they're fighting it.

00:41:15
Roy
Like it ain't happening to me, but yet, so everybody being in denial can make for a really bad situation.

00:41:22
Ciana
Yes, no. That's a, that's an excellent point. It, we actually ran into some issues, with getting my mother onto my grandmother's bank, because what happened was she wasn't able to look at her bank account statement and really understand what was going on and he'd had a login anymore. My mom was like, okay, I'm going to take over your bank account. They went to the bank and said, Hey, my mother, she has dementia. We're going to go ahead. I'm going to be, on her accounts now. That particular day was an off day. My grandmother was like, what are you talking about? So that it looked like my mom was trying to be like shady again, that's another thing. Like we have to catch those things, even earlier than that, to where, when they're basically able to kind of still do a lot, but they just have the diagnosis.

00:42:19
Ciana
Those are the stages. When, when they understand, like, Hey, I'm going to go ahead and, help you with your finances. I'm going to help you with your mail. I'm going to help you with your organization. I'm going help you with this. They kind of know that they need help at the early stages. Like, I feel like my grandmother was more open. Like she liked it. She's like, Ooh, like my granddaughter and my daughter are helping me out. It got to a stage where she didn't really know who were. And so we then became enemies. We then became like someone that she was like weary of. It's like, why do you want to get my big account? Who are you anyway? And if we would've caught that alert earlier, we wouldn't have had to deal with that. Now we're on like, her medical, on my name is on there.

00:42:59
Ciana
I'm able to speak on her behalf. Power of attorney is so important to get on is early as you can, because you have to do interviews for that stuff. If they're, in the interview and the interviewer is looking at them and seeming like, they're okay, and they're like, I don't want you to be my power of attorney. What are you talking about? It just looks, it just gets bad. So, they actually do my grandmother as someone that wasn't fit to answer the question. Luckily that were able to overcome that, but, we've had moments with her medicals, during, medical moments and, doctors, authorizations and stuff like that, where my grandmother was like, I don't want to do that. It's like, well, we just talked about it one hour ago. So, all that stuff, needs to be organized and ready to go, at the beginning stages. To your point, just the acceptance of it is I think the biggest hurdle to get over, and then just, again, the more organized you get the earlier you accepted the easier the process of these things will go, and then you'll have more energy to be patient when times get difficult or moments get really hard.

00:44:02
Ciana
So,

00:44:03
Roy
Yeah, and it's hard. Because even though that they have this dementia, when they're in front of somebody else, they can be very convincing that they are in control of their facts, their faculties, and that they are telling the truth. That's another reason to get out in front of it and don't wait because it, cause that makes it even harder. Now, other people are looking at you sideways, like what are y'all trying to do to this poor woman? Absolutely. It reminds me of the funniest story that I have thought about this in a long time, but a friend of mine was traveling with her little niece or nephew and they're on an airplane. Of course this is after nine 11, but they're on an airplane. As they're coming into the airport, the stewardess is like, Telmo the little girl. I mean, she was probably like six or eight at the time you need to buckle up.

00:44:54
Roy
The girls, the aunt was telling her to do this and she got mad and she started screaming. Who are you? Who are you? I was like, oh my, and then the whole plane starts looking at her. Like, why have you kidnapped this person or what's going on? It's hilarious in that situation. When it's your loved one that, like I said, they can be very convincing and then it just makes that hurdle even higher that you have to get over to prove that she is not okay. That really somebody does need to be helping with this. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's possible. I was going to ask you, can you tell me about your grandmother and what kind of work did she do and what kind of person would she.

00:45:41
Ciana
Yeah, no. She so very funny woman, but loves to crack jokes, loves it, back in her day, when she used to have her cigarettes in her bud light, she would just, go to work. She worked at 3m for many years. After she worked at 3m for about 20 years, she then started working at this other company where she would work on motherboard. She always just had very simple woman. She had a nine to five. She liked, she liked her nine to five. She would get off, she would get her beer, she would get her cigarette. That's just kinda how I remember her. She would watch us when were there after school and, while my mom was working. Very loving, very, funny, a little feisty. She, you couldn't put too much pull too much past her and me and my brother would try to do stuff and he would try to get away with stuff.

00:46:38
Ciana
She wasn't having it. But, just a very, just a lively full of life. Everyone loved her, everyone that met my grandmother, all of all my friends and coworkers and people that I met her throughout my life just love her. Ask me he still to this day, how was your grandma doing? You have people from high school. So, definitely made an impact. And, she, I guess she would also do art. So she is an amazing artist. I'm going to start to post some of her stuff, but she's an artist. She went to school for it. She was a, she was born in the south and then moved to Southern California when she was a baby. And, pretty much raised her, have her whole life out here and raised her three children, which is my mom, my aunt and my uncle I'm out here in Los Angeles.

00:47:26
Ciana
And, she, my grandfather super cool guy, he's passed away from cancer about 15 years ago, but he was a, a, he was a singer. He was always on the road all the time. She just, she was kind of a single mom in a way, because he was always on the road. She, you know, just had her job. She had her kids, she had her cigarette or her bud light and that's who she was. That's who she was. Oh, that's sounds so sweet.

00:47:56
Roy
Well, thanks so much. Do you have anything? Do you have something else to say,

00:48:00
Terry
Well, what else was I gonna ask? Oh, what's your favorite memory as a child of your grandmother?

00:48:07
Ciana
Ooh, that's easy. Yeah. Well, there's so many, but the one that always sticks out in my head the most is, she would always sing the song. I love you a bushel and a Peck, a bushel, and a Peck and a hug. So that was just our thing. Me, my niece, her, my little brother, when she'd be watching us while my mom was at work to like help us, stay calm from like, where's mommy, we miss mommy. She would sing to us. And so that was our thing. She would sing to us and, she would sit us up on the bed with her and we would watch star Trek with her. Just this whole, just as simple, the simplicity of it just like being in the bed, jumping up and down and singing with her and watching star wars or I'm sorry, star Trek and star wars, actually.

00:48:50
Ciana
She was really into Saifai. Yeah, that's, I would say that's like the top favorite memories.

00:48:57
Roy
That's cool. One thing else. I was going to say, you mentioned respite care, and I think this is a point that a lot of people need to understand that it is available to them. Depending on where you live and some agencies, sometimes it can even be at no to very low costs, but don't let yourself get to the end of your rope. Take advantage of this respite care. If there's, sometimes they will come into your house to give you a few hours off, sometimes making them out to an adult daycare and let them stay there. The adult daycares aren't necessarily, just a place to warehouse somebody like they used to be a lot of them today have art programs. They have, field trips and yeah, other games besides bingo, very engaging things to do. So I would just challenge everybody. It's, we need to know as caregivers, we need to know when to quit because a lot of times we get into the cycle of, well, I said I was going to take care of her and I need to be here.

00:50:00
Roy
You did. For her to get the very best care, sometimes we have to get a break ourselves that self-care as a caregiver. Anyway, I would just ask everybody to seek it out, to find a location that's close, that you could take advantage of because you can attest I'm sure, but a couple hours away can make a world of difference.

00:50:21
Ciana
Absolutely. I do want to say, just to that, to add to that point, if you are in the San Fernando valley in Southern California, it's called first generation, a lot of insurances cover it. And it's a adult daycare. I sat in, even to, for her to get approved. I had to even sit in on a whole day with her they seem to them. They have them read old newspaper articles. They do tons of art projects. They, they have them, they do like little art projects, and, oh, have them do gardening, all these kinds of things. It's called first generation in the San Fernando valley area. Definitely check it out. I would highly recommend them. They're great.

00:51:01
Roy
Okay. Great. Well, Ciana, we want to say, thanks again. It's been a pleasure having you on the show. I just wanted to point out that Tiana says aunt and we say, yeah, I should. That's a Texas thing. Unfortunately, we got hands. No, no, thank you so much for your postings too. I mean, we really enjoy it. We, I feel like we've become to know you and your grandmother through your posting. Please keep that up because I think as you have attested to and what you went through, it's like, we always, we never know what we don't know. Now that you've come through this, it's like ha all of this in the very beginning, things would have been a lot different. I think your message really gets out there and can help others at the very least find resources that they can turn to help them in whatever situation they're in.

00:52:05
Roy
So that's awesome. I mean, showing everybody your journey.

00:52:13
Ciana
Is yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm going to, this is very encouraging for me. Thank you so much for reaching out and, messages like this from individuals. Like you really keep me going actually. Cause I'm not, it's not easy, to post and I'm in the middle of being with her and, no one knows what we would have. We just went through before I turned the camera on, ? So, encouraging words like this go a long way.

00:52:42
Roy
Yeah. Keep it up. It's a great mission. I feel like, in today's environment, the nice thing is you're not just helping your next door neighbor. I mean, you're actually helping people all across the world, view the U S for certain, but then across the world that, somebody else has gone through this and they've survived. Here are some things that we can do to help ourselves. So it's awesome. Yeah. Keep up the good work. Maybe if Terry gets out to see your daughter, she can come look Chuckie up. Yeah,

00:53:09
Ciana
Absolutely. Go to lunch. Absolutely. I'd be open to that. Yeah.

00:53:13
Roy
All right. Well, that's going to do it for another episode of educational. You can, of course find us at www.ageucational.com. Well, before I do that, do you want to tell us what the, I don't have the address, but you to tell us your Instagram address for everybody,

00:53:27
Ciana
You can check me in the grandma Chuckie out at, With Love Chuckie, that's at, With Love Chuckie talk as well, same exact address.

00:53:42
Roy
Now I'm going to impress you and say that I'm on Tik TOK. We'll have to go check you out over there too. Yes. All right. Well, that's gonna do it. You can find us of course, at www.ageucational.com. We're on all the major podcast platforms, as well as all the social media platforms. A copy of this, interview, video of this interview will go up on our YouTube channel when we post it as well. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your loved ones. Thank you. Thanks.

Instagram - withlovechuckie

www.ageucational.com